Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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SaiK
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

Karan M wrote: The abject manner in which LKA and co have allowed the INC to chart out a discourse on saffron terror, allow every leftist loon to slander their leaders, plus break their own party in Karnataka.. All that idiocy is unacceptable.
+108

kinda corresponds to what I said, but you had it in the bulls eye. every such unacceptable idiocy amounts to 5 more years of k-angrez who will further graze whatever left on the land.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

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darshhan
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by darshhan »

SwamyG wrote: Why bring Western polity and make so many assumptions about me, huh? Looks like you have already given up on India, for when one talks about honesty and integrity and better expectations from Indian politician, you immediately looked at West. I never uttered a word about any Western country, never compared India to any other country.



..........

The trend in this dhaaga is every time somebody places a higher expectation on BJP, the BJP supporters seem to generate some kind of White Blood Cells, that travel quickly to the post and seek to destroy the 'foreign concept'. It is just beautiful to observe this pattern. Calling out BJP or its politicians does not mean one is a supporter of INC. And also it does not mean a good and better BJP cannot defeat INC. Some of the arguments against my position seems to imply that I expect BJP to be pristine at the cost of a loss. Pandavas can be Pandavas and still beat the Kauravas, they did not turn into Kauravas to beat Kauravas. Some times is comical to see how people twist so much to support their favorite leaders and party.
SwamyG ji, Dont mind it but Honestly " Bahut Dimaag pakate ho yaar (English translation:Man You literally fry the brain) ". :) Kudos to Karan M ji for responding to each point of yours. Very few Indians would have this kind of patience.

You got to understand that in the current crop of Indians, very few give a shit for all the theories and ideals that you are espousing.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Neela »

How can files be missing?
How can 100s of files be missing?
HOw can 100s of files be missing in the ministry directly under the Prime Minister.?
How long should a ministry take to respond to a question from CBI?
The CBI has registered 13 FIRs in the period when MMS was in charge!

This is not incompetence. This is wanton looting and arrogance. This can only come when every other institution that prevents this from happening has been compromised.

Modi did nothing when the courts went against Kodnani. Govt counsel in fact pushed for capital but then withdrew.

If Modi does take N.Delhi , we are going to see some key people doing a runner.
That one, the Italian one, she is cooked if the D4 bow to Modi.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by nawabs »

Ayodhya once again emerges as ground zero in UP politics

http://www.livemint.com/Page/Id/2.0.3049242488
On Sunday, the VHP cadres will face off against the state govt.Uttar Pradesh’s Samajwadi Party (SP) government has refused permission to the VHP for the launch of its 20-day Chaurasi Kos Yatra.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

Lilo wrote:SwamyG ji,
Iam also a thinking person but unless some thing drastically shakes my belief I am currently set in my mode of "what leader does is correct".
Lilo: I never doubted about your thinking abilities or others. And thanks for your explanation too.

I understand your position of having to rally behind a selected leader after one critical point has been reached in the campaign. From that aspect, I do believe Modi should be the man, and hence I have no debate on who should lead.

However, I do not subscribe to your last point of "what leader does is correct". Calling leaders out does not preclude that one does not support them. I will continue to express my points even if it is critical of Modi or others. It boils down to our personalities, I guess.

Like you correctly point out, our discussions are not going to make or break any leader's chances in the elections, but maybe there are people who are watching these online discussions to mine ideas :-)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^Excellent posts, Lilo and Karan M garus.

IMHO, the mistrust with even (allegedly) well-intentioned criticism of the only hope for bhAratam in this election cycle is rooted in past experience with the so-called pretend neutrals - INC supporters (for whatever reason) who pose as well-wishers of NM and basically try to derail, subvert or otherwise muddy the debate waters. No, am not saying swamyG falls in that category. Having met the man, I can say his heart is in the right place.

IN any case, the dhaga would become very boring if it remained only an echo chamber. Facts apart, some diversity in opinion is healthy only.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Comer »

A Tamil biweekly called Junior Vikatan(quite popular) ran a survey across 6k people all over TamilNadu. Posting the summary:
Who would you want as PM:
1. NaMo - 52%
2. JJ - 16%
3. Rahul - 15.79
4. MMS - 15

How would you rate the current administration:
Good - 10%
Avg or Terrible - 90%
Sushupti
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Modi on the upswing?

Elections are still eight months away, but travel through UP and a strange paradox reveals itself. The BJP is still a shadow force in the state, but its mascot, Modi, is on every lip.

“We must give him a chance,” says Santosh Pandey, 35, a cab driver in Varanasi city, 280 km from Lucknow. “Look at Modi’s achievement in Gujarat: good roads, 24-hour electricity, and improved law and order. If he becomes the prime minister, he will turn UP into Gujarat.” Also, Pandey points out, “Modi is not corrupt.” As for the allegations that Modi allowed BJP-linked sectarian Hindu mobs to massacre Muslims in Gujarat 11 years ago, Pandey says that although those killings were “unfortunate”, they occurred “a long time ago”. More communal violence, he says, has occurred in UP since Chief Minister Akhilesh Yadav of the SP won power last year. “How long can you cling to the 2002 Gujarat violence?” he asks. In the elections of 2004 and 2009, Pandey voted Congress. Next year: he will vote for Modi.

Travel from Varanasi, 100 km north to Azamgarh district, then further east to the district of Deoria and its adjoining Buddhist city of Kushinagar, and Gonda district nearer Lucknow, among other places. Everywhere, the voter refrain is similar: it reverberates with a belief in Modi’s capacity to deliver on governance.

Jolting along pot-holed roads on a state-owned bus, Jai Prakash Yadav, 40, an MNC employee in Azamgarh, grimaces and says: “Every time I visit Mumbai and Ahmedabad, I realise how far behind UP is in infrastructure and governance. These roads won’t change for 50 years if we keep electing (BSP leader) Mayawati and (SP leader) Mulayam Singh Yadav.” Reluctantly he reveals he voted SP in the 2012 Assembly polls. Now, he says, “Modi should get a chance.

“I am not saying that I will vote for Modi, but there is a lot of attraction in what he has done in Gujarat,” says villager Ram Dayal Verma in Barabanki district, 20 km east of Lucknow, which is currently represented by Union Steel Minister Beni Prasad Verma, a Congress leader. The villager says the youth watch TV news and discuss politics. “Most people here are followers of Beni babu but they invariably end up discussing Modi when they get together,” he says. “At times, they have even come to blows.”

The pervasive influence of television may be working in Modi’s favour. Says political analyst Upendra Kumar of Gorakhpur city: “TV has reached every house. People watch what is happening. Pakistanis repeatedly kill Indian soldiers, even behead them. Inflation is breaking our backs.” Kumar says that Modi’s speech at Hyderabad on 11 August or in Gujarat on 15 August got a lot of traction. “You may say that Modi was wrong in criticising the prime minister in his speech on Independence Day,” says Kumar. “But the questions Modi articulated is what the people want answered.”

On television news, it is Modi who seems to be driving the agenda. Modi’s statements are debated feverishly in news studios and become newspaper headlines the next morning. “The locals watch and analyse his speeches. Many appreciate his strong views,” says Kumar.

Elsewhere, in Hathras district, 330 km to the west of Lucknow, another villager appears to be wavering from his family’s traditional loyalty for Union Civil Aviation Minister Ajit Singh. “We have always voted for Chaudhary Ajit Singh, but this time we feel that Modi deserves a chance,” says 40-year-old farmer Ram Singh, whose two older brothers drive taxis in New Delhi. “Modi comes across as a solid neta who has risen from humble beginnings but has no stain of corruption on him. He is tough and decisive.”

“Yes, the 2002 riots happened and Muslims were killed, but now it’s an old story,” he says. “Do you think the SP or the Congress care about Muslims? They are merely exploiting them.”

Surprisingly, or perhaps not, even social media is becoming a driver in the state, especially among the educated youth. Subodh Verma, a BA second year student at Allahabad University, will vote for the first time in 2014. He is an active Facebook user and follows Modi on it. “This guy has vision,” Verma told TEHELKA. “He means what he says about the economy and good governance. He is ready to engage with the youth, unlike other politicians who have done nothing for the youth.” Does he consider Hindutva or Ayodhya’s disputed Ram temple election issues? “Not at all. I will go for development any day.” Many of his friends, too, follow Modi on Facebook.

Those who belong to Uttar Pradesh but live in Gujarat are turning out to be zealous ambassadors for Modi. “Every visit home in Gonda district is a cruel reminder of how bad things are in UP,” says Ram Asrey, who lives in Gujarat’s Surat district and with whom this correspondent shared a ride on a rickety state-owned bus from Varanasi to Gorakhpur. Thrice during the journey, he compared the roads of UP with those in Gujarat. When reminded of the 2002 anti-Muslim violence, he says: “Ab sau me sau to santusht nahi ho saktey aur phir mamla court mein chal hi raha hai (You cannot satisfy everybody. In any case, the courts are seized of the cases.)

Shockingly, Modi’s charm has spread to Saifai in Etawah district, 240 km west of Lucknow, the native village of Mulayam Singh Yadav. “We will vote for SP but our heart and mind is with Modi,” is a refrain in Saifai. The village is part of the Jaswant Nagar Assembly constituency that Mulayam’s brother Shivpal Yadav represents. The SP holds Etawah’s Lok Sabha seat, too.

Says farmer-cum-contractor Dasrath Singh Yadav: “We cannot utter Modi’s name. But I believe he is a good person. If he becomes the prime minister, he will make a difference.” Yadav, however, is not excessively optimistic. “I feel that the political system is so complicated that it will be very difficult for Modi to deliver.” He is also unhappy that Modi and the BJP are making overtures towards the Muslims for votes. “I understand they need to win over all sections of society,” he says. “But they should not emulate the votebank politics of the Congress and others.” He says he watches Modi’s speeches on TV. “He talks of securing India’s borders, which other parties ignore.”

Chandra Shekhar Yadav, 35, law graduate, is a diehard supporter of the SP and adores Netaji, as Mulayam is known among followers. But he says he is worried by Modi’s growing influence in the urban areas of the Yadav-dominated regions of Etawah, Mainpuri, Etah, Kasganj, Kannauj and Farrukhabad. “The BJP is certainly gaining ground in my area by projecting Modi as prime minister.” He says he will meet Mulayam and urge him to counter Modi by redressing the people’s grievances.

Of course, the Muslims, who are nearly one of every five people in UP, are sharply polarised the opposite way. Their scepticism of Modi’s chances is most evident in the Muslim heartland of Aligarh city, 300 km west of Lucknow. “I think the people of India will not accept him as his image is not good,” says Shababuddin, head of the Urdu Department at the city’s 130-year-old Shibli National College. “Some may think Modi is a good leader. But he is not acceptable.” He believes that Modi will fail to be a game-changer in UP. “The BJP says that he has won the Gujarat Assembly elections thrice and done good work. But Gujarat is a small state while India has many different castes and religions. I don’t think Modi has the capacity to take everybody along.”

Abdul Lari of Quami Ekta Dal (QED), a fringe political party in the state founded three years ago, blames the news media for hyping Modi up. “Uska kad isliye bada hai kyonki woh laashon pe khada hai (He stands tall because he stands on dead bodies),” he says, referring to Modi’s alleged complicity in the 2002 massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. But, Lari says, if the BJP performs better than in 2009, it would not be because of Modi but due to inflation and worsening crime in the state under the Akhilesh Yadav government. Ironically, Modi’s arrival is expected to hurt the chances of the QED. “Those Muslims who might have voted for such small parties would instead go for tactical voting for a mainstream party’s candidate best placed to defeat the BJP,” says Muzammil, a villager from Saraimeer in Azamgarh.

Others who are also sceptical of Modi’s ability to swing the vote point to the failure of Congress vice-president Rahul Gandhi in reviving his party’s fortunes at last year’s Assembly election. The Congress stood a poor fourth with a mere 28 of the state’s 402 Assembly seats, despite months of vigorous groundwork by Rahul in UP. A BJP leader says Modi’s case is different from Rahul’s. “You cannot compare Modi with the Gandhi surname,” he told TEHELKA. “Rahul can afford to lose five elections and still be the king of the ring. Modi knows that this is a do-or-die election for him. If he loses, it will be extremely difficult for him to sustain his position.”

So the question bears repetition: Is there then a Modi wave in UP and will the BJP zoom to the top in the state in the next election? While it may be too early to answer the first, the answer to the second is clearly a no. Indeed, Modi is undoubtedly the most discussed political name across the state. But this cannot be confused for a voter consolidation in favour of the BJP. For that to happen, Modi will have to overcome the party’s many shortcomings. “The BJP is in a shambles in UP,” a BJP leader told TEHELKA, asking not to be quoted. “It has more leaders than workers.”

As chief minister in 2002, the current BJP president, Rajnath Singh, had dubiously led the party to a resounding defeat from which it hasn’t recovered. Another former chief minister, Kalyan Singh, who once had the frenzied backing of the hardcore Hindu right-wing, has been in and out of the party so often that he has become inconsequential to the state’s politics. And the current Varanasi mp, Murli Manohar Joshi, counted among the top three leaders of the party two decades ago, is unsure of retaining his seat in 2014. “Modi’s biggest challenge will be in naming candidates for the state’s Lok Sabha seats,” says the BJP leader. “These leaders would fight hard to corner a bulk of the tickets.”

That Modi has a reputation of neither forgiving nor forgetting easily will work in his favour, as the satraps would think twice before crossing his path. Modi might himself employ the classic divide-and-rule strategy: he is said to be considering nominating BJP president Singh’s son, Pankaj, for the Lok Sabha seat from Chandauli near Varanasi in return for Singh’s unflinching support in marginalising the other self-styled stalwarts.

BJP insiders in Lucknow say Modi is only too aware of the uphill task he faces in rejuvenating the party in the next 40-odd weeks. In fact, it is precisely because of the faction-ridden state of the BJP in UP that Modi’s aide Amit Shah has chosen two out-of-state lieutenants as his key operators, both BJP legislators from adjoining Bihar: Rameshwar Chaurasia, who was made a national secretary in a reshuffle three months ago, and Ashwani Chaubey, who has long been aggressively pro-Modi and who bulldozed reluctant party comrades in Bihar two months ago to go with Modi even though it led Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar — who rejects Modi due to his anti-Muslim image — to end the 17-year alliance of his Janata Dal (United) with the BJP.

Shah has divided UP into six zones: Braj, Bareilly and Pashchim in the western part of the state; Awadh in the central; Varanasi and Gorakhpur in the eastern; and Bundelkhand in the southwest. The zonal leaderships have been directed to chalk out region-specific strategies. Though the BJP has fought shy of naming Modi as its nominee for the prime minister’s job, there is immense pressure from ground up to do so forthwith. Everyone without exception in the party believes its only chance lies in Modi’s candidature as PM.

A key factor will be Modi’s ability to finely calibrate the BJP’s hardcore Hindutva so that the communal cauldron simmers but does not spill over. The SP’s overtures to the Muslims, as evidenced in the state government’s refusal this week to allow the BJP-affiliated Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) to take out a rally in Ayodhya, may have worked to Modi’s advantage in polarising the Hindu votes. But even Modi knows that caste has time and again proved to be a stronger pull than being a Hindu. That is why Modi is being repeatedly portrayed, especially in eastern UP, as a leader of the backward castes, who are traditionally the bulwark of the SP. In the western part of the state, where the backward castes are not as dominant, the BJP is pumping up Modi’s claim of good governance in Gujarat.

The clincher, however, would be the candidates. Take Varanasi, for example, where the BJP has won in five of the past six Lok Sabha elections since 1991. It lost the seat in 2004 when the voters booted out the BJP-led Central government. Five years later, MM Joshi barely scraped through, winning by only 17,000 votes against a mafia don, Mukhtar Ansari. On voting day, only a late surge of the city’s Hindus, who worried that a Muslim don might win the seat, helped Joshi avoid defeat. But Joshi was lucky. He could have done worse in his traditional constituency of Allahabad, where he had lost twice in a row before fleeing to Varanasi.

“People are fed up with the Central leadership imposing candidates from the top,” says Varanasi-based journalist Amitabh Bhattacharya, a veteran reporter of parliamentary and state elections in the region for 35 years. “This is a safe seat for the BJP, but if Joshi is given the ticket again, the party’s biggest shock in 2014 would come from here.” Deepak Malviya of Kashi Vidvat Parishad, a body of experts on religious scripture widely respected among Hindus, recalls that Joshi refused to meet with a community of some 20,000 Gujarati settlers in Varanasi while campaigning in 2004. “He said he didn’t have time,” says Malviya. Such an attitude, he says, won’t work this time.

So what numbers is the party looking at? “With Modi as the party’s face, we hope to win around 25 seats,” says a BJP leader declining to be named. If, however, nepotism infests the choices, the party could repeat only 10 seats, “Modi or no Modi”. Apart from BJP president Singh and Joshi, Modi will also need to deal with two veterans, Kalraj Mishra, who is an influential Brahmin leader, and Lalji Tandon, who won the Lucknow Lok Sabha seat in 2009 after former prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, who had won it five times on the trot until 2004, opted out.

According to a top BJP insider, Team Modi initially thought a strong Modi-Hindutva wave would break caste barriers and win the party 50-60 seats. But lately Shah was heard accepting the role of caste into consideration. Over a decade, the traditional backers of the BJP have deserted it. They are the urban middle class; the upper-caste Brahmins; the backward castes such as the Kurmi and the Lodhs; and traders. Both the SP and the BSP capitalised on this flight by absorbing a large number of upper-caste politicians. But now, if ground reports are to be believed, the upper castes, who are around 24 percent of all voters, are disillusioned with the two regional parties and may be willing to give the BJP a second-chance. Among the backwards, the BJP hopes to attract the Lodhs, who are around 2 percent, with their leader Kalyan Singh returning to the BJP fold.

Of course, Modi’s strong point — an image of good governance — will also be enhanced by Akhilesh Yadav’s poor administration. That the SP has distributed goodies only to the Yadavs has angered the rest of the Other Backward Castes (OBCs). Says AK Verma, a political scientist in Lucknow: “The extremely and most backward castes had supported the SP in 2012. Now they will go to the BJP.”

The SP was also caught in a cleft stick by a decision of the state’s Public Service Commission to reserve seats for the OBCs during preliminary exams for the state civil services. This policy angered the upper castes, threatening to rip apart the SP’s rainbow coalition of the OBC and the upper castes. Upper caste hopefuls dubbed the commission (Lok Seva Ayog) as “Yadav Seva Ayog” and went on the rampage, damaging public property and attacking the police.

When the Allahabad High Court stayed the reservation, a stung CM gave marching orders to the secretary of the commission, Anil Kumar Yadav, and ordered the policy rolled back. This, in turn, triggered violent response by OBC students, who alarmingly include the Yadavs. Munshi Lal Gautam, a former MLA from Bulandsahar and president of the BJP’s state OBC cell, has already drawn up plans to mobilise OBCs. OBC leaders such as Kalyan Singh, Om Prakash Singh and Vinay Katiyar will lead social justice rallies. “We need to work harder in 14 districts of eastern UP,” he says.

But focussing on the backward castes does not mean that the BJP and Modi will let go of their strong point: sectarian polarisation. The VHP’s rally, ostensibly to drum up support for building a Ram temple in Ayodhya, was to start on 25 August and run until 13 September, starting at the temple town and passing through Faizabad, Barabanki, Gonda, Ambedkar Nagar, Basti and Bahraich before returning to Ayodhya. On 17 August, eight days before the launch, VHP leaders in a surprise move met SP chief Mulayam Singh Yadav and Akhilesh for over two hours to seek government help.

The meeting happened so suddenly that the Muslim mascot of SP, Azam Khan, was deeply rattled. It is not known what transpired at the meeting but within 24 hours the government banned the rally. The VHP blamed Khan for it and has threatened to go ahead with the rally. Analysts say that despite the posturing of the VHP and the SP, both sides wouldn’t mind upping the communal ante as both the BJP and the SP would benefit from a Hindu-Muslim conflict.

BJP insiders say that the RSS, the party’s ideological parent, has realised that Modi is its best hope for winning New Delhi. On 19 August, police in Kanpur city detained Yogi Adityanath, the MP from Gorakhpur who is viscerally anti-Muslim, as he was on his way to Mahakaleshwar Temple in Jhansi district that he wants to cleanse by “shuddhikaran”. The VHP and other RSS affiliates have been running mass contact programmes. Two “Ganga yatras” have already been held. All such activities, of course, are a fig leaf for stoking Hindu communal passion.

On 20 August, a day after it banned the VHP rally, the UP government announced it would earmark 20 percent of the budget of 85 development schemes for the welfare of Muslims. Akhilesh said his party’s election manifesto last year had promised the step. This, too, has come in handy for the BJP. “This shows the perverted mind of the chief minister and his party,” BJP state president LK Bajpai told TEHELKA.

The BJP also happily lapped the controversial suspension last month of an IAS officer, Durga Shakti Nagpal, who had demolished a wall of a mosque illegally built in a village in Gautam Buddh Nagar district on the state’s border with New Delhi. Its cadres have been in the forefront of the campaign to portray Nagpal as an upright officer being penalised because the SP needs the votes of the Muslims.

The final question, of course, is whether Modi will contest the Lok Sabha election from Uttar Pradesh. Two lines of thought are being actively explored. One is that Modi should contest either from Lucknow or Varanasi, as both are safe seats of the BJP, and a win with a huge margin would strengthen his mandate. But winning in Lucknow would hardly create a wave in the eastern part of the state. Hence the second line, which says Modi should contest from Gonda or Kaisarganj in eastern UP where the BJP needs to make inroads among the backward castes. The BJP reckons that Modi’s name on the ballot in either of these seats would rub off on the party’s candidates in the nearby constituencies of Bahraich, Balrampur, Basti and Sant Kabir Nagar, bringing it 8-10 seats in this region alone. An additional factor is the aura of Adityanath, who is often at loggerheads with the BJP leadership but is on excellent terms with Modi.

Of course, these are still early days given that the elections are nine months away and, as former British prime minister Harold Wilson famously said, a week is a long time in politics. Even Modi’s diehard supporters say that one false step and Modi could move away from his goal of crystallising his outreach and reducing the infighting within the party. What is clear though is that if the “Modi factor” doesn’t work, the BJP may even be reduced to a single digit. So much for statistics.

http://www.tehelka.com/modi-on-the-upsw ... nglepage=1
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem »

As we said , the last millenium is fresh in our mind and the fire to ....
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem Kumar »

saravana wrote:A Tamil biweekly called Junior Vikatan(quite popular) ran a survey across 6k people all over TamilNadu. Posting the summary:
Who would you want as PM:
1. NaMo - 52%
2. JJ - 16%
3. Rahul - 15.79
4. MMS - 15

How would you rate the current administration:
Good - 10%
Avg or Terrible - 90%
I am shocked that 30% of people are backing MMS or Rahul! And TN is supposed to be one of the better educated states
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

A time for everything and everything in its time...

Harshvardhan all but certain to be BJP's face in Delhi polls: sources (HT)

Shame it took this long. But considering that the dilli-billi infestation severely eroded the Delhi BJP, it could've been much worse, perhaps.
With Delhi election in-charge Gadkari set to arrive in Delhi on Friday, party workers hope a decision will be taken soon.

"The issue has been dragging on for quite some time and a lot of damage has already been done. There is hardly any time left for the campaign and the infighting needs to end," said a senior BJP leader.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

shades of rogue agent smith of matrix here...taunting the overlord of the machines.

If India is computer, Congress is its default programme: Rahul Gandhi
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Hari Seldon wrote:A time for everything and everything in its time...

Harshvardhan all but certain to be BJP's face in Delhi polls: sources (HT)

Shame it took this long. But considering that the dilli-billi infestation severely eroded the Delhi BJP, it could've been much worse, perhaps.
With Delhi election in-charge Gadkari set to arrive in Delhi on Friday, party workers hope a decision will be taken soon.

"The issue has been dragging on for quite some time and a lot of damage has already been done. There is hardly any time left for the campaign and the infighting needs to end," said a senior BJP leader.
Dr Harshvardhan would be a good choice (my first preference has always been for Sushma Swaraj to re-enter delhi actually) -- I wish this happens.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Lisa »

Singha wrote:shades of rogue agent smith of matrix here...taunting the overlord of the machines.

If India is computer, Congress is its default programme: Rahul Gandhi
Spelling error,

If India is computer, Congress is its fault programme
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Time for a NaMo poster as Rambo, if Congress is the virus, he is the cure.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

rajdeep sardesai blog has a long lament why Namo is popular with youth and not the baba.

in the end he has this :rotfl:
Post-script: My 18-year-old son is a first-time voter. I asked him what he thought of Modi's Independence Day speech and whether it was inappropriately timed. "I don't know about the timing, but at least he spoke!" And therein hangs a tale.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Comer »

Prem Kumar wrote:
saravana wrote:A Tamil biweekly called Junior Vikatan(quite popular) ran a survey across 6k people all over TamilNadu. Posting the summary:
Who would you want as PM:
1. NaMo - 52%
2. JJ - 16%
3. Rahul - 15.79
4. MMS - 15

How would you rate the current administration:
Good - 10%
Avg or Terrible - 90%
I am shocked that 30% of people are backing MMS or Rahul! And TN is supposed to be one of the better educated states
One possibility is the paucity of choices in questionnaire. There will always be a residual support for anyone in any state. I am surprised that Modi has this much support in spite of language barrier.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vishvak »

Also how raul g vote bank is 15% but who is in charge.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Comer »

There was a fresher in my team who is from an upper middle class and urban family from the right schools. He had an opinion that Sonia Gandhi is an Oxbridge graduate and therefore good for the country and Rahul's youth is an attractive factor. I could see from his subsequent arguments that he is not a congress supporter per se. One other guy supports Congress because of Telangana. I am citing these examples because one cannot guess where and why congress support comes
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

a good example of the clueless types who waft around malls/english MSM websites/car shows/rocj shows getting their kool aid without delving deeper to find the TRUTH in any arena.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

^Robert Heinlein was perhaps right, voting rights should only be given to those who really serve the nation for at least a while, sacrificing their individual considerations.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by sampat »

And some people continue voting for congress as a tradition started by their grandfathers. One Auntyji even mentioned Rahul Gandhi's looks as a reason for voting congress. Their views on Corruption : All parties are same, at least Congress has class. :evil:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

Will be going to the state BJP office here in the capital to offer my services as a volunteer, interested people may register at namobrigade.in
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

Karan:
I am not sure why one should forget dharma. It has practical component. And I am not sure what expecting politicians to be honest and come with integrity has anything to do with what I have done or not done in India. I am not sure why you equate dharma and self-realization in this context. And pray what Ivory Tower am I talking, huh?

Boss, I understand Indian conditions as much as anyone else. So don't get patronizing about how only you understand all the condition, and that I do not understand. I am not sure why you are bringing extraneous points, when all I am saying is that we ought to set high standards for BJP, and not settle for something less just because INC has to be overthrown.

How is my high expectations going to keep INC in power, your logic beats me.

Dude, I never have said that BRFites are unable to understand perfection, and I have not clamored for perfection. Now don't get snobbish and patronizing, I realize what INC has done to the country. And do not jump to conclusion what what I have understood or not understood about fellow BRFites. If in doubt, seek clarification instead of jumping with both your feet.

Seriously your entire post is built on house of cards. What made you assume that I think Modi is Saint, huh? Seriously I thought twice before replying to your haughty and frothy nonsense.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

Singha wrote:rajdeep sardesai blog has a long lament why Namo is popular with youth and not the baba.

in the end he has this :rotfl:
Post-script: My 18-year-old son is a first-time voter. I asked him what he thought of Modi's Independence Day speech and whether it was inappropriately timed. "I don't know about the timing, but at least he spoke!" And therein hangs a tale.
Two related view points:
http://www.niticentral.com/2013/08/22/m ... 22458.html
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 950_1.html

It shows the change in discourse.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sachin »

Any idea on how NaMos personal oratory skills and the development initiatives would help other BJP Candidates to win their seats? One factor which worries me is that BJP also has to ensure that the local chap contesting elections have some good credibility. Don't think BJP can just manage to pull on by leveraging NaMo. Because ultimately it is the BJP local leaders who needs to garner votes, win the elections and reach the Parliament.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Neela »

I dont think setting higher standards and realistic expectations are in conflict. Reason: Anything is better than the current dispensation.

I mentioned this in the previous page also. This is the comparison:

Files go missing in the ministry directly under MMS. Not 1 ....but 250 odd.
( vs)
Guj govt counsel pleading for capital for Kodnani in the 2002 riots.

The difference here is that Modi lets govt institutions functions. Various bodies within the govt act as counterweights but the Congress has destroyed every one of them leaving it top dog. Once you have a proper restoration of powers, you can see immediate trickle down effects and organs start to work properly.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

SwamyG wrote:Karan:
I am not sure why one should forget dharma. It has practical component. And I am not sure what expecting politicians to be honest and come with integrity has anything to do with what I have done or not done in India. I am not sure why you equate dharma and self-realization in this context. And pray what Ivory Tower am I talking, huh?
The ivory tower that you are talking about is bringing in all the stuff about dharma, noting that only you wish for high standards whereas others dont- wherein your posts dont even reflect that things in India are very bad from all practical factors of life/infrastructure/and daily living conditions and are deteriorating from all the aspects that matter in terms of creating a national vision and feeling of pride. Please go look up Maslows model sometime & understand wherein people start getting the idea to look beyond their immediate hard scrabble conditions, for the first part. And realize for those who have moved ahead, even the rest is pretty bad.
Boss, I understand Indian conditions as much as anyone else.
Actually, its very clear that you don't. Your posts dont even portray the gravity of the current situation.
Please go read what another person said to you - he said, bahut dhimaag pakaate ho. That would exactly the reaction of the average Indian to where you are coming from, if these comments were made. They don't relate to the immediate needs.
So don't get patronizing about how only you understand all the condition, and that I do not understand. I am not sure why you are bringing extraneous points, when all I am saying is that we ought to set high standards for BJP, and not settle for something less just because INC has to be overthrown.
On the contrary, it is you who is patronizing and comes across as smug in your preachy posts, wherein you bemoan how the foolish, uncouth BJP supporters are willing to settle for so little & they just attack any opposing POV reflexively. The condescension in your posts is remarkable, you assume automatically that the persons who are countering you, have nothing to offer and it is you who is certainly correct.

I was merely pointing out that the reason why we are willing to settle for something less than perfect is because there is no time to wait for perfection. And the gravity of how bad things are, is clearly not affecting you, as you merely visit India for sojourns, talk to a few people and you can go back. Those of us who suffer from the frustrating grind of seeing a nation implode around us, don't have that luxury. Please understand that.
How is my high expectations going to keep INC in power, your logic beats me.
That logic is espoused by many who continue to plump for the INC, claiming that since BJP is still not perfect, nothing differentiates them from Congress. Similar to your rhetorical claim about how the two parties wouldnt be really different at all otherwise, whereas the reality stands stark on so many issues already vis a vis the prior NDA govt and the current 2 UPA ones.
Dude, I never have said that BRFites are unable to understand perfection, and I have not clamored for perfection. Now don't get snobbish and patronizing, I realize what INC has done to the country. And do not jump to conclusion what what I have understood or not understood about fellow BRFites. If in doubt, seek clarification instead of jumping with both your feet.
I am so humbled my lawd, that only you can get snobbish and patronizing. Or is it that since you think are cent per cent correct, anyone countering you, even if civil, is automatically snobbish or patronizing? You are projecting.
As regards my conclusions or otherwise, its very clear from YOUR posts as to what YOU think of your fellow BRFites. The smug and sarcastic claims about WBC, about spinning for their favorite party, how amused you are etc - you think those are very respectful and tolerant?
Practice what you preach. And if you must go on and on because people mine this forum for ideas, be practical and if you want to make a tangible difference, come back to India and vote. Otherwise, you are merely one more gent "spinning away" (in your own words), without any practical contribution.
Seriously your entire post is built on house of cards.
On the contrary, its a direct rebuttal to your flimsy line of thinking, which revels in demonstrating your intellectual superiority to the foolish supporters of x or y, who in your view, have no standards and need you to show them the light.
What made you assume that I think Modi is Saint, huh?
Your own statements which reflexively put Modi on a pedestal, while implying that he could leave the BJP and form his own party and somehow things would be ok. In your world view, clearly, Modi is what is right, everything else is wrong. What will you do tomorrow if a ton of stuff comes out that shows Modi is as bad as the rest of the BJP or whatever? Ditch him? Carp about how worthless he is?
Guess what, this is the difference between you and the rest of us, we'd rather stick with a x, provided he delivers 80% of what he promised, and don't care if he right now is NOT perfect, things are at that stage. The time for talky talk, gyaan bazi is over. The alternatives are so bad, that they are scary.
Seriously I thought twice before replying to your haughty and frothy nonsense.
It would have been better if you had not. I wouldnt have had to reply to your non introspective, completely self absorbed statements yet again.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

Neela wrote:I dont think setting higher standards and realistic expectations are in conflict. Reason: Anything is better than the current dispensation.
.
Exactly! The gyaan bazi started each time some hard nosed decisions were to be taken, eg. taking Yeddy back or having an alliance with him - everyone was roundly castigated about how the BJP would then have low standards and not be different at all from the INC. Ask any RE developer, and he will laugh at the charges against Yeddy as versus what his predecessors did. Yet the former is the icon of evil and untouchable or not to be utilized let it soil the oh so clean BJP. Such examples are what show that the person making them is either firmly ensconced in theoretical abstraction (all is maya onlee, none of it affects him personally) and second, thoroughly out of touch with the realities of what Y was (all his million faults known and even so) as versus the other motu-billis, who went on to do great things (like shake hands with Birkin babe).

Are bhai, what talk of Modi, the paragon of integrity and efficiency and what not, making a difference if he doesnt even reach Dilli? That logic totally escapes our expert/s, who pontificate about how the BJP has to be a party of difference, never mind that in the current system, those sort of blinkers will ensure they won't even get midway!!

Yes, keeping the likes of S-yadav, who is much much worse at arms length is unmistakeable. But extending all this sort of logic to some magical high standards which are to coat the BJP and ensure it only works with pure players, is to enter Subbu Swamy land. Laudable intentions perhaps, but one man party. And us mango people in a banana republic, don't have that luxury.

Are bhai, get us back to the NDA times, where a) Govt made money b) Protected national security and the country was not a laughing stock c) Governance was attended to and at least some positive changes for economy d) Infra growth e) Hope for the country and yourself.. and I am ok with it, being a plebe.

Yahan to, making money, and not even attempting to a to e, the arrogance of power for the past 8 years is beyond all limits.

But what is surprising above and beyond the above, is to point it out, and then be given a gyaan session on how WBCs reflexively come together because it is their favorite party and how they are spinning, oh boy!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Received the following on email from a forumite who is on sanyas from this dhaga seems like. Hence, posting...
Saar, pliss to look.

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/market/arti ... odi-326196

Even if NaMo is declared as the PM candidate, that may itself arrest some of the rupee and market slide. It will be interesting to see if markets price this piece of information.
Can't help but excerpt the following:
Asia-Pacific focused brokerage CLSA said on Friday that the current crisis in financial markets could trigger an improvement in governance in India.

The Hong Kong-based brokerage linked the fate of the volatile rupee to the political prospects of Narendra Modi, widely expected to be named the BJP's candidate for Prime Minister in next year's general elections.

Analyst Christopher Wood wrote in his weekly column, "Greed & fear's view is that the worse the sense of crisis the better Modi's chance of winning."

He also said, "The Indian stock market's greatest hope is the emergence of Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as the BJP's prime ministerial candidate."

Wood's 'Greed & fear' reviews global markets and economies and is widely followed by investment professionals and the media.
And this:
India's problems are most self-inflicted in terms of the continuing lack of an investment cycle and a growing currency crisis, CLSA said, adding the Reserve Bank of India's tightening moves in July clearly backfired in large part because of misguided communication and conflicting signals.

The brokerage also said that India remains the Asian market most at risk of a sovereign debt crisis.

India is currently rated BBB-, which is the last rung on the rating ladder above so-called "junk" status that mainstream investors tend to steer clear of.

The brokerage said there could be further downsides in quality stocks, where FIIs have so far not sold their holdings in the relatively 'quality names'.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

From twitter:

>>narendramodi_in ‏@narendramodi_in 17m
Narendra Modi is a product of Government school. Government teachers taught me: Narendra Modi http://www.narendramodi.in/liveevent/social/index.html
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Hari Seldon wrote:Received the following on email from a forumite who is on sanyas from this dhaga seems like. Hence, posting...
Saar, pliss to look.

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/market/arti ... odi-326196

Even if NaMo is declared as the PM candidate, that may itself arrest some of the rupee and market slide. It will be interesting to see if markets price this piece of information.
Hari garu, have crossposted to Economy thread. CLSA isn't just any brokerage - its research is often considered the best in Asia.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

What a sad sentiment from a man of Bachchan's 'stature' !
Bachchan also said that the Nehru-Gandhi family had been close to his family from the time of his parents. "That association, I will always respect. I always did respect it and I always will in the future," he said.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/Never-endorsed-any-political-ideology-saysAmitabh-Bachchan/articleshow/21997561.cms
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^Bah, take Bachchan's babble with salt only. The man can and will change tunes with wind direction.

As long as (like, say, Rajnikant) he stays out of politics and political endorsements, his impact on the coming polls will be minimal.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

BJP to field General VK Singh to challenge Sonia in Rae Bareli? (niticentral)
Former Army chief General VK Singh is said to be keen to challenge Congress chief Sonia Gandhi in Rae Bareli, the bastion of the Nehru-Gandhi family. Reports say Singh has conveyed to the BJP top brass about his plan and the party leaders are believed to be excited to see a high-voltage fight in 2014 general election.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by krishnan »



Was this slip of the tongue ???
Last edited by krishnan on 23 Aug 2013 17:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Despite the reported text from Anna, his suggestion if actually implemented will result in Modi as sure-shot head of government:

Neither Modi nor Rahul Gandhi fit to become PM: Anna Hazare
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

Hari Seldon
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

SwamyG wrote:Piyush Goyal called for Elections.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... growth-upa
Hard-hitting article. The figures are frightening.
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