pgbhat wrote:ramana wrote:RAND report
Pakistan-Can US Secure and Insecure State?
By C. Fair
The very topic of this thread! BTW the above report is before the floods.Her assessment.Less likely futures include an increasingly theocratic or Islamist state or even a breakup of the state itself. More likely, Pakistan may evolve into a praetorian and authoritarian state tightly under the control of the military and intelligence agencies.
Rajesh sir would love to read it. email is XXX AT gmailRajeshA wrote:Dear BRFites,
Should there be any interest, please let me know by publishing your email addresses here temporarily!
Thanks,
RajeshA
Rajesh saar, Kindly send on my email add:-RajeshA wrote:Dear BRFites,
My humble self has lately tried his hand at writing an ebook, after some garus here put the idea in my head. It tries to propose a different model for Pakistan's collapse, than what we have been discussing in this thread, and much more! I have a version ready, which I am now ready to distribute. I've decided for the moment that I'll send it to BRFites who are interested by email only. Not everything in the ebook is for general viewing.
Should there be any interest, please let me know by publishing your email addresses here temporarily!
Thanks,
RajeshA
US has to only stop supporting LeT and fundraising by LeT in the world.Lalmohan wrote:US doesnt have to support India
it just has to stop supporting Pakistan
thats no so hard to do
'Threat of Pak nukes falling in jehadi hands'
Updated on Friday, January 07, 2011, 17:58
Swati Chaturvedi
New Delhi: The Cabinet committee on Security (CCS) is extremely worried about an ''eyes only'' Research & Analysis report that warns that the ''command and control'' structure of Pakistan's nuclear weapons falling in to the hands of what the report describes as the ''hardline jehadi'' elements rampant in Pakistan society
Authoritative sources told Zee News that earlier both Union Home Minister P Chidambaram and Union Minister for External Affairs S M Krishna had ''flagged'' the issue of Pakistan's nuclear weapons with the USA.
The report which comes from Islamabad is based on both ''humint'' and ''techmint'' (human intelligence and technical intelligence) and says that the weapons thought to carry limited payload are entirely in the hands of the Army the rapid ''jehadification'' of the Army is a serious cause of concern.
Separately, the Intelligence Bureau (IB) has also warned that the Taliban and even Osama Bin Laden are also eyeing Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
The report asks the CCS to take a joint view with the USA and wants the government to take it up at the appropriate levels with the US establishment as it says that the Pakistan nuclear weapons are a bigger threat than Iran's going the nuclear route.
A CCS member told Zee News, ''We have decided to take up the matter with the US government since it is a cause of grave concern. Pakistan Punjab Governor Salman Taseer's murder by his own security guard lays bear the cancer at the heart of Pakistan.''
Other conditions -shiv wrote:Time to resurrect this thread.
I wonder if India should start giving conditional asylum to Paki intellectuals. The "condition" part is important. No anti-India activities. Period. And no question of citizenship.
ramana wrote:Indian govt worried about PAk nukes command and control
'Threat of Pak nukes falling in jehadi hands'
'Threat of Pak nukes falling in jehadi hands'
Absolutely not. The reason is BRF members are not going to decide who is an inteleectual and who is not. It'll be people like Diggy Raja and other assorted chamchas who will decide. They will brand anyone intellectual who will get them votes.shiv wrote:Time to resurrect this thread.
I wonder if India should start giving conditional asylum to Paki intellectuals. The "condition" part is important. No anti-India activities. Period. And no question of citizenship.
Interesting graphic.Martyr Salman
The assassination of the pro-minority Pakistan Punjab governor comes as a wakeup call for that troubled state, says N.V.Subramanian.
New Delhi, 6 January 2011: The assassination of Pakistan Punjab's governor, Salman Taseer, for his robust stand against the blasphemy law and for championing minority and women's rights comes as a wakeup call for that beleaguered country. Unless Pakistan embraces Mohammed Ali Jinnah's vision of a secular republic protecting minority rights but sans his anti-India sentiments, it will unstoppably descend into chaos and self-destruction. This is perhaps a known theme. But for Pakistan's good, it bears repetition.
Indians, including this writer, have a problem with Jinnah. They cannot reconcile the Jinnah who dreamed of a secular Pakistan with one of the key architects of Partition and the chief political propagator of the Two-Nation Theory. Presumably, Pakistanis have that problem too, or at least those of them who take Pakistan's Islamic identity too seriously.
A section of them believe that an Islamist Pakistan, run on Sharia law and denying rights to women and minorities, is a natural end-state of Jinnah's demand for Partition. It would not impress them that Jinnah took the creation of Pakistan as something in the manner of a lawyer's brief and employed the Two-Nation Theory as a smart weapon to succeed. Considering the epic tragedy that Pakistan is today, it would appear a case of a clever lawyer trumping a wise politician.
{This is like arguing Julius Caeser wanted to continue the Republic and it is his successors that imposed the Roman Imperium!}
But this writer would argue for Pakistanis to consider Jinnah's vision of a secular Pakistan for itself, ignoring Jinnah's links to Partition or his animus towards India. It would nearly be an argument to embrace the idea of a secular Pakistan for its own value, regardless of who propagated it.
In secular Pakistan may lurk hope for a natural Pakistani identity in which Islam need not clash with ideas of modernism, moderation, pluralism or gender equality. And secular Pakistan will give it a unique identity of its own without being presented in terms of as a permanent competitor to India and as a counterforce to it.
But how is the idea of a secular Pakistan to be reconstructed from scratch? At a minimum, it needs the comprehensive conversion of the Pakistan military to secularism, because the armed forces have been so central to consigning the country to its warped and wretched fate.
But the Pakistan military and secular ideals mate about as well as oil does to water. They won't mix at all. Many complex factors are at work here, and Pakistan's India-centric strategic aims complicate matters.
Every Pakistani military dictator, from Ayub Khan to Parvez Musharraf, has taken the reflexive and erroneous view of India as Hindu India (a mirror opposite of Islamic Pakistan), which Islamist irregulars and terrorists would be able to subvert and dismember. Ayub was not a zealot in the mould of Zia-ul-Haq nor was Musharraf, who was fairly taken in by Jinnah's constituent assembly secular-Pakistan speech and was admiring of the (secular) Turkish army for stabilizing Turkey.
But in all the Kashmir wars Pakistan has prosecuted against India, jihadists were employed. The Pakistan military continues to believe in the Two-Nation Theory in a graduated form, which is of an Islamic Pakistan standing to confront a Hindu India, despite the contrary evidence of the separation of Bangladesh. Bent upon giving India a thousand cuts, it is Pakistan that is bleeding to death.
{Chedapukara, chedadhavu. Telugu :Dont ruin others lest you be ruined!}
It is strange that Pakistanis do not trust Jinnah who delivered Pakistan for his ideas of a secular country. It is unfair to blame Pakistanis as a whole for this state of affairs. Regardless of how threatened Pakistan's democracy is, it is a fact that it survives in that country, and it is also true that Pakistan's judiciary is stronger than ever, and it has a free media which by and large exhibits tolerant views.
In election after election, unless they be brazenly rigged, mainstream political parties have been favoured to the negligence of extreme religious groupings. Religious groups have always commanded street power. But they have surpassed their capacity to oppress Pakistan only in alliance with the military.
Today, as before, the Pakistan military stands in the way of Pakistan gaining an identity for itself which is over and beyond Islamic. For its own survival and prosperity as a state within a state, it has invested India with vast demonic designs against Pakistan, which justifies the seeking of strategic depth in Afghanistan, even if it means aligning with the devil, in the form of the various Taliban groups and the Al-Qaeda.
It is impossible to convince Pakistan or at least its military that after gaining Afghanistan in whole or in part, the Taliban/ Al-Qaeda will gun for Pakistani nukes, aided by insiders in the Pakistan military, intelligence and atomic establishments. Indeed, the Af-Pak terrorists are united in their aim to establish a nuclearized caliphate in the whole region, in which targeted assassinations of modernists like the murdered Punjab governor, Salman Taseer, constitute decisive steps. Who will now dare to confront the fundamentalists on the blasphemy law?
But without an equally resolute counter-movement towards pluralism, Pakistan will self-destruct and become a piece of real estate for the caliphate jihadists. In these caliphate plans, Saudi Arabia is an active though inadvertent partner, funding the Af-Pak and indigenous Pakistani terror groups to keep Wahhabi militancy away from its shore.
And powers like China, which seek to gain from Indo-Pak tensions, have plunged Pakistan further down the vortex of destruction. Pakistan is at a critical cross-roads. It either returns to the however imperfectly and cynically arrived secular ideals of its founder, Jinnah, overcomes his bitterness against India, and sets about remaking and reinventing itself, or Pakistan travels down the present road to annihilation. Salman Taseer has secured a place in history by going down for a great cause.
N.V.Subramanian is Editor, www.NewsInsight.net, and writes internationally on strategic affairs. He has authored two novels, University of Love (Writers Workshop, Calcutta) and Courtesan of Storms (Har-Anand, Delhi). Email: [email protected].
uncle has been worried about pakinukes for sometime. according to seymour hersh in 2009 uncle has also plans to safeguard nukes in case of any crisis.They have a team on standby for this with c-130 plane etc etc. however pakis know about it and have dispersed it so that it is difficult to capture them. also musharraf had told bush that he has built some underground tunnels to keep them safe.shyamd wrote:Debka has been saying that MMS has been ringing Obama and complaining about nukes falling into jehadi hands for a while now.
ramana wrote:Indian govt worried about PAk nukes command and control
'Threat of Pak nukes falling in jehadi hands'
GOTUS had to issue a statement that it was not true after some uproar from pakis. I dont know if this coinicides with the tunnels in pak occupied kashmir last year. no one has given a true number, usually estimates.
In a scenario, where Pakistan falls to the Jihadists, if Paki 'intellectuals' were allowed in, then one use for them would be to convince the Indian Muslims to stay away from the influence of the Pakistani Jihadis. In fact, Paki 'intellectuals' should start criticizing Pakistan the moment they land here. So it is a major propaganda tool.shiv wrote:Time to resurrect this thread.
I wonder if India should start giving conditional asylum to Paki intellectuals. The "condition" part is important. No anti-India activities. Period. And no question of citizenship.
I wouldnt do that, yet. The mixing of paki RAPEs with DHL's is very poisonousshiv wrote:Time to resurrect this thread.
I wonder if India should start giving conditional asylum to Paki intellectuals. The "condition" part is important. No anti-India activities. Period. And no question of citizenship.
Yes provided they remain totally free of anti-India activities, they can buy their way in. They need to bring in money that is used transparently for openly secular causes.RajeshA wrote: As far as RAPE is concerned, each one should be asked to negotiate their entry fees individually with GoI. An education fund for building schools can be set up, and if they contribute substantially to it, and agree to bring in their money from the foreign accounts, perhaps over a period of time, and invest in India, perhaps Indian infrastructure, etc. they could be allowed to stay in India.
Any TFTA or anti-India comment from any of them, made privately or publicly should be grounds enough to throw them over the Wagah back into Pakistan, into Qadri's waiting arms (pun intended).
I would say, it is far more than that and it reflects the progress made by the Islamist society of Pakistan. Judge Bhatti had the powers to acquit and he did so and earned the wrath of the far right clerics. Governor Taseer had no such powers and was only pleading the case of the Christian woman in public forum and was appealing the President to pardon her. Nothing more. But, the intolerance of the society had grown to such an extent that a bodyguard decided to pump in 29 bullets while the rest of the bodyguards chose not to intervene. The behaviour of the rest of the society throws even more light on the progress of the society since the Bhatti case. The President, PM, CM, just nobody attended his funeral - out of fear in the case of the President and the PM and out of fear plus religious belief in the case of the Punjab CM. The clerics refused to lead his janaza. The lawyers shower the murderer with rose petals. Significant sections of Pakistanis, both within and without, eulogize him.A_Gupta wrote:In 1997, Judge Arif Iqbal Hussain Bhatti of the Lahore High Court was assassinated in his office after he acquitted two Christians - one a 14 year old boy - of charges of blasphemy.
In that sense, the murder of Taseer is merely a small step up - I think a governor outranks a High Court judge? What else is new?