Bharat Rakshak

CRamS wrote:

gakakkad wrote:As Shiv et al predicted , the so called sooper duper power is actually a pussy footed donkey .

Read that article again. US is toying with TSP. Its clear to all of us that US does not want to destroy TSP, and what it wants is a TSP that would do its bidding to the last dot.

But thanks in part to the drone war, only a few senior members of the core Al Qaeda group are believed to be still alive there, including Bin Laden's successor, Ayman Zawahiri.

The CIA keeps a list of 20 top targets and "there have been times where they've struggled a little bit coming up with names to fill that list,"

CRamS wrote:

gakakkad wrote:As Shiv et al predicted , the so called sooper duper power is actually a pussy footed donkey .

Read that article again. US is toying with TSP. Its clear to all of us that US does not want to destroy TSP, and what it wants is a TSP that would do its bidding to the last dot.

Surya wrote:
Don;t corner yourself into arguing like this

gakakkad wrote:
no consequence saar. just doing an == .ie US==Yindia== tsp

CRamS wrote:

gakakkad wrote:
no consequence saar. just doing an == .ie US==Yindia== tsp

Then you fall into a death trap. There is nothing TSP can do to US, Serving up some H&D to TSP in the form of US == TSP is something US can live with. All this BS about the mighty Al Queda launching attacks against US with dirty nukes is just that, wild fantasy, which US justified post 9/11 in a rambo fit of frenzy. Reality has now sunk in, and pragmatic objectives are the order of the day. And in any case, TSPA will gladly prevent any remotely possible attack on US, provided as you say, USA offers it sufficient H&D, with the key being India == TSP or even TSP >> India. Leave aside TSP >> India, but even India == TSP poses grave existential challenges to India in the future.

Dipanker wrote:
Let us see, Paki did the 9/11 costing America 3000+ lives, brought down two iconic buildings which were symbols of what America is all about, costing trillions of $$ to the American economy, sending American economy to a funk from which it hasn't still recovered, costing another over 1/2 trillion in Afghanistan and another 2000 (approx) American soldiders lives, etc.

CRamS wrote: I have't seen one credible report directly linking TSPA/ISI with 9/11.

new delhi: while the pakistani inter services public relations claimed that former isi director-general lt-gen mahmud ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on monday, the truth is more shocking. top sources confirmed here on tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" india produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the world trade centre. the us authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to wtc hijacker mohammed atta from pakistan by ahmad umar sheikh at the instance of gen mahumd.

CRamS wrote:Give us India on a silver platter, and then we'll consider your demand. Thats where we are.

Zardari asks people not to allow change through force
Islamabad, Dec 25 (PTI)

Against the backdrop of a row between Pakistan's civilian government and military over a memo alleging an army plot to seize power, President Asif Ali Zardari today asked people not to allow any change through ''force and intimidation''.

The ballot should be respected as the instrument of change, said Zardari, who has been facing pressure from the military establishment since Pakistani-American businessman Mansoor Ijaz made public the memo that sought the US help to stave off a coup in May.
In a message issued to mark the 136th birth anniversary of Pakistan's founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Zardari said: "The Quaid (Jinnah) believed that any change must be brought about by ballot and rejected change by bullet.

"Let us pledge that we will not allow any change through force and intimidation and respect the power of ballot as the instrument of change."

Amid rampant speculation about the President's resignation due to pressure from the military, Zardari said that during dictatorships in the past, the welfare of the people "took a back seat and security concerns became predominant as the country faced extremism and militancy".

"We need to create conditions whereby the welfare of the people is the dominant concern of the state," he said.

Zardari asked people to "forge unity in their ranks to preserve and protect their democratic and political rights and make Pakistan a country where egalitarianism prevailed".

The people should rededicate themselves to Jinnah's democratic ideals and principles and reiterate their resolve to defeat the forces "that seek to undermine the nation's founding principles", he said. Jinnah stood for "constitutionalism, rule of law, respect for human rights, pluralism and honouring the mandate of the people", Zardari said.

"We should never lose sight of our national goalpost. This indeed is our compass in a turbulent sea," he added.

"Let us pledge on this day to reclaim Quaid-e-Azam's Pakistan and unleash the creative powers of the people through freedom, justice, the rule of law and an end to terrorism and violence," Zardari said.

In a separate message, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani too asked the people to forge unity in their ranks and follow Jinnah's message of unity, faith and disciple to overcome challenges facing Pakistan.

Sharp differences have emerged between the government and the army over the memogate scandal.

The government has said President Zardari and Prime Minister Gilani played no role in drafting or delivering the memo to the then US military chief Admiral Mike Mullen.
The chiefs of the army and ISI have said there is adequate evidence that the memo exists.

They have asked the Supreme Court, which has admitted several petitions seeking a probe into the memogate scandal, to order an investigation.

The government has challenged the apex court's jurisdiction to hear these petitions, saying the matter is being investigated by a Parliamentary panel.

CRamS wrote:

Dipanker wrote:
Let us see, Paki did the 9/11 costing America 3000+ lives, brought down two iconic buildings which were symbols of what America is all about, costing trillions of $$ to the American economy, sending American economy to a funk from which it hasn't still recovered, costing another over 1/2 trillion in Afghanistan and another 2000 (approx) American soldiders lives, etc.

Come on, don't stretch facts to suit a particular PoV. While one can make an oblique connection between TSP & 9/11, I have't seen one credible report directly linking TSPA/ISI with 9/11.

Due to a confluence of factors, starting with US sharing the bed with Al Queda & ISI to root out the Soviets from Afghanistan, TSP in fact can be linked, albeit indirectly to 9/11. But if that is proof of direct TSP culpability, then US itself is culpable for 9/11, something US does not want to open up for debate for fear, and with good reason, that skeletons will come out of the closet. So, US has decided that Al Queda has served its purpose and must be eliminated post 9/11. US has pretty much has achieved that goal. US went a bit further and wanted Taliban too. But TSP said not so fast. Give us India on a silver platter, and then we'll consider your demand. Thats where we are.

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan's information minister withdrew her resignation on Sunday, hours after she offered to quit amid tensions between the civilian government and the country's powerful military over a memo alleging an army plot to seize power in May.
Information Minister Firdos Ashiq Awan made the surprise announcement at a televised cabinet meeting but Prime Minister Yuaasuf Raja Gilani later persuaded her to withdraw resignation. "The prime minister tore down my resignation and asked me to continue my work," Information Minister Firdos Ashiq Awan told reporters after the cabinet meeting . Some media reports suggested that Awan offered to resign over criticism within the ruling party over her perceived failure to defend the government in the "memogate" scandal, as it is being called in Pakistan. Tensions have been running high between the government and the powerful army after the scandal surfaced, raising concerns for the region and for Pakistan's already uneasy relationship with its key ally, the United States. ansoor Ijaz, an American businessman of Pakistan origin, wrote in a column in the Financial Times on October 10 that a senior Pakistani diplomat had asked that a memo be delivered to the Pentagon with a plea for U.S. help to stave off a military coup in the days after the raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in May. jaz later identified the diplomat as Pakistan's ambassador to Washington, Husain Haqqani, who denied involvement but resigned over the controversy

Islamabad: Former Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Sunday launched a scathing attack on the government's handling of Pakistan's nuclear programme, claiming President Asif Ali Zardari's statement on "no first use" of atomic weapons against
India had undermined national security.

Nandu wrote:Dipanker, CRamS is right in this case, despite what you may have read in BRF archives.

sunnyP wrote:The actor is back.

Islamabad: Former Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Sunday launched a scathing attack on the government's handling of Pakistan's nuclear programme, claiming President Asif Ali Zardari's statement on "no first use" of atomic weapons against
India had undermined national security.

http://m.ibnlive.com/news/pak-exfm-qure ... 15002.html

How seriously should one take Imran Khan's party?

Dipanker wrote:

Nandu wrote:Dipanker, CRamS is right in this case, despite what you may have read in BRF archives.

Right in the sense that Pakistan is not responsible for 9/11 ?? And US is culpable for 9/11??

Give me break!

Violating the ceasefire yet again, Pakistani troops today targeted Indian posts with small arms fire to give cover fire to a group of infiltrating militants along the LoC in Poonch district.

Dipanker wrote:
OMG You seriously believe what you wrote here?? It may be good idea for you to read BRF archives!

“We’ve closed the chapter on the post-9/11 period,” said a senior United States official, who requested anonymity to avoid antagonizing Pakistani officials. “Pakistan has told us very clearly that they are re-evaluating the entire relationship.” With American diplomats essentially waiting quietly and Central Intelligence Agency drone strikes on hold since Nov. 16 — the longest pause since 2008 — Pakistan’s government is drawing up what Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani called “red lines” for a new relationship that protects his country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Officials from Pakistan and the United States anticipate steep reductions in American security aid, including the continued suspension of more than $1 billion in military assistance and equipment, frozen since the American raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan in May. With Pakistan taking a seat on the United Nations Security Council for two years beginning next month, these officials argued that too much was at stake to rupture ties completely. “It is better to have a predictable, more focused relationship than an incredibly ambitious out-of-control relationship,” said one Western official. But another Western diplomat put it more bluntly: “It’s a fairly gloomy picture.”

CRamS wrote:

Dipanker wrote:
Let us see, Paki did the 9/11 costing America 3000+ lives, brought down two iconic buildings which were symbols of what America is all about, costing trillions of $$ to the American economy, sending American economy to a funk from which it hasn't still recovered, costing another over 1/2 trillion in Afghanistan and another 2000 (approx) American soldiders lives, etc.

Come on, don't stretch facts to suit a particular PoV. While one can make an oblique connection between TSP & 9/11, I have't seen one credible report directly linking TSPA/ISI with 9/11.

Due to a confluence of factors, starting with US sharing the bed with Al Queda & ISI to root out the Soviets from Afghanistan, TSP in fact can be linked, albeit indirectly to 9/11. But if that is proof of direct TSP culpability, then US itself is culpable for 9/11, something US does not want to open up for debate for fear, and with good reason, that skeletons will come out of the closet. So, US has decided that Al Queda has served its purpose and must be eliminated post 9/11. US has pretty much has achieved that goal. US went a bit further and wanted Taliban too. But TSP said not so fast. Give us India on a silver platter, and then we'll consider your demand. Thats where we are.

CRamS wrote:where you and I disagree is that US has done so strategically, not out of cowardice as you & DocJi and others seem to imply.

CRamS wrote:DocJi,

Are you telling me boss that there is anything comparable to MMS's abject surrender to TSP on 26/11. We have to hang our heads in shame, not only at TSP's brazen attack, but even reaping the rewards of that attack. US on the hand took out TSPA and then teases it with compensation. 1000s of drones have been launched. And need I remind you of taking out OBL from right under Kiyani's arse. Even now TSP is seeting in jealously, shame,and anger, but there is not a darn thing they do to US. Now, do I like US appeasement of TSP for larger geo-political reasons? No, of course not. But I don't draw any comfort from that by comparing US strategic appeasement of TSP with India's surrender. And neither do I advocate India follow in the footsteps of US. India may not deserve MMS/Sonia, but Indians are only to blame for having installed someone like them as their leaders.

CRamS wrote:

Surya wrote:
Don;t corner yourself into arguing like this

Just answer this question? So MMS's surrender to TSP on 26/11 is the best India could come up with?

CRamS wrote:

gakakkad wrote:
no consequence saar. just doing an == .ie US==Yindia== tsp

Then you fall into a death trap. There is nothing TSP can do to US, Serving up some H&D to TSP in the form of US == TSP is something US can live with. All this BS about the mighty Al Queda launching attacks against US with dirty nukes is just that, wild fantasy, which US justified post 9/11 in a rambo fit of frenzy. Reality has now sunk in, and pragmatic objectives are the order of the day. And in any case, TSPA will gladly prevent any remotely possible attack on US, provided as you say, USA offers it sufficient H&D, with the key being India == TSP or even TSP >> India. Leave aside TSP >> India, but even India == TSP poses grave existential challenges to India in the future.

The latest controversy has emerged with regard to the rebuilding of the women’s seminary, which was adjacent to the Laal Masjid (Red Mosque) before the municipal authority demolished it after the 2007 military operation. Although conceding to Interior Minister Rehman Malik’s request to delay the foundation-laying ceremony plan by a week to arrange an alternative piece of land for the seminary, Maulana Aziz has warned the government that any delaying tactics could lead to a bloody confrontation similar to the 2007 one, in which 110 suspected militants and several troops were killed. Later, the Supreme Court (SC) in its judgement had given CDA orders to rebuild the female seminary at the same location. However, the CDA was reluctant to comply with the SC’s orders. At the same time, the place originally belongs to the Ministry of Education but had been occupied by Laal Masjid clerics as they had illegally built Jamia Hafsa there.

The rift between the CDA and Laal Masjid clerics is expanding day by day and now it has reached a point where, if not handled strongly and decisively, it might result in strengthening the extremist elements in the country’s capital once again. To make the situation more complicated, Laal Masjid’s Imam Maulana Abdul Aziz has refused to accept any alternative place that does not match the price of the land on which Jamia Hafsa was originally built. Given past experiences, his threats have to be taken seriously.

With due respect to the SC, its decision in this regard is being seen as unwise by certain quarters. The teachers and students of this seminary had created a serious breach of the rule of law and practiced vigilante justice in the land. They set up an illegal Shariah court, claiming jurisdiction over the area. The location where the Laal Masjid is situated is a high-security zone, as it is surrounded by buildings and offices of the country’s government and intelligence services. The rebuilding of Jamia Hafsa on the same location is equivalent to giving the extremist elements with a fanatical jihadi mindset another chance to recreate tension in the capital that led the previous government to launch a military operation against them. If rebuilding has to be allowed, then it should be built at another place removed from the heart of the capital. *

Pakistan government is seriously contemplating the removal of powerful army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and ISI head Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha against the backdrop of a standoff on a memo alleging an army plot to seize power, a media report said on Monday.



The government's "extreme unhappiness" with Kayani, currently on a three-year extension, and Pasha, who received a one-year extension in service last year, is an "open secret", The News daily quoted its sources as saying.

The two generals have been held responsible for forcing Pakistan to adopt an "extremely harsh stance" towards the US after last month's NATO air strike, the report said.



They also "adopted a diabolically opposing stance to that of the government" on the alleged memo that sought US help to stave off a possible military coup in Pakistan in May.

krishnan wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 111226.htm

Pakistan government is seriously contemplating the removal of powerful army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and ISI head Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha against the backdrop of a standoff on a memo alleging an army plot to seize power, a media report said on Monday.