Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

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CRamS
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by CRamS »

DocJi,

You summed up the Paki piskology very aptly. I would only that not only do they want India, but they also want to be the masters. In other words, the Moghul Durbar. It is this latter part that might sound preposterous, but finds resonance among many a "Indians" and westerners.

But just curious though, why would one use left hand to reach a part of the anatomy that is easily reachable with the right hand? I subconsciously do that, for e.g, at a toll booth, with the booth to my left, I reach out with right hand to get my wallet out from right back pocket, pull out a $ bill and then stretch my right hand to hand it over to the booth clerk. Many a times, the clerk is laughing wondering why I am struggling so hard with my right hand when its so easy to have over the $ bill with my left hand :-).
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by shravan »

Koral tragedy: Possibility of sabotage not ruled out
http://www.samaa.tv/newsdetail.aspx?ID=46518&CID=1

In its report forwarded to Interior Minister Rehman Malik, intelligence agency said that Bhoja Airline’s plane was flying at an altitude of 1500 feet at the time of the crash.

....
The report has recommended that the final report of technical experts and all officers, who were involved in pre-flying preparation of the crashed plane, should be fully inspected. SAMAA
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by shravan »

harbans
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by harbans »

In its report forwarded to Interior Minister Rehman Malik, intelligence agency said that Bhoja Airline’s plane was flying at an altitude of 1500 feet at the time of the crash.
If at the time of the crash the plane was at an altitude of 1500 ft..did the ground move up or something?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Anujan »

For Pakistan watchers. There is an interesting clusterf*ck going on there:

1. First US attacks salala post and sends a few to get their 72 and Pakistan army decides to suspend NATO routes.

2. Since Pak army gets Baksheesh from NATO, they have to reopen the routes. And since they dont want to be seen downhill ski-ing, they give the grenade with the removed pin to the civvies and ask them to make a decision about reopening NATO routes. Two birds in one stone: Unkil is now pressurizing the civvies and finally when the Civvies agree, they can be blamed for not standing up to Unkil.

3. The Chunkian Groper-Zardari combo lob the grenade at the parliament, saying that a joint session of the Parliament will make a decision vis-a-vis NATO. Now if the opposition agrees to open NATO routes, they would be seen as downhill ski-ing. So the opposition refuses.

4. The interesting thing is that an agreement is already in place as to what they want in return for re-opening NATO routes. Pieces of that has trickled out: Like Pak railways being used for good transport, for better tracking and accounting (now you know why Pakis want locomotives from India and SDREs are wary of selling them), sharing the baksheesh between railways and National logisitics cell, no use of private contractors for transport, an increase in tariff etc. Now the Army and some sane people of finance ministry see what they have done, realize that they would never be able to reopen NATO routes because they are in a mexican standoff. Everyone wants a face saving gesture.

5. People start planting stories like "Kerry coming to apologize. Ombaba apologized in private but doesnt want it to be made public, we are TFTA and didnt lose our face after all". Expect such story planting to increase.

6. In massa, Ombaba is not going to apologize because this is an election year.

Meanwhile SDREs have gathered up beer and popcorn and enjoying the tamasha.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Prem »

Anujan wrote:For Pakistan watchers. There is an interesting clusterf*ck going on there:
Meanwhile SDREs have gathered up beer and popcorn and enjoying the tamasha.
IMHO, Poaqs are discovering the real meaning of their Khuutti-e- Dozakh . Naukri , Nikah and Nakhra Nahi chalta.

Pakistan ka matlab kya hai
Naa Brain
Naa Paani
Naa Bijli
Naa Roti
Only, Khyali Pualo,NOG and bekar ka Halla Gulla.

NOG=Natural Onion Gas.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Anujan »

http://tribune.com.pk/story/368336/shah ... -protests/
Express News correspondent Safdar Hussain, also on board flight 742 said that as the plane was taking off, the fuel tank began leaking due to over-fuelling, forcing the pilot to brake. The 200 passengers on board the flight remained unhurt. They were shifted to the waiting lounge at the airport where they began protesting, demanding that they be flown in another airline.


Earlier today, emergency was declared in an aircraft of Shaheen Air when two of its tyres burst during landing at a runway in Karachi. According to Express News the plane, with about 100 passengers aboard, was bound to land at the 25-L runway at the Jinnah International Airport when the landing gear malfunctioned, causing the tyre to burst from the pressure. Embers that sparked from the rims were extinguished with the help of water. All passengers and flight crew remained unhurt in the incident.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by partha »

^^
I guess Pakistan should demand brand new Boeing 777s instead of F16s the next time.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by sanjaykumar »

Reminds me of Sudan airlines, in the sixties. It reads like the African press too. Maybe central Asian reporting style is similar.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Guddu »

From Vikram Sood's blog..

Why India cannot afford to give up Siachen
The strategic advantage accruing to India in Siachen should not be given up for apparent short-term political gains. Giving up Siachen as a gesture of friendship would also mean that its recapture would be extremely expensive to India in men and material, says Vikram Sood.


The venue: Badami Bagh, Srinagar , Headquarters of the Corps Commander 15 Corps, Lt Gen Prem Hoon

The year: 1983

The participants: The Corps Commander and the R&AW station chief.

The subject: Siachen and reported Pakistani activities in that region according to intelligence reports from across the LoC.


It would be untrue to suggest that this meeting led to the assault on the Soltoro Ridge which is actually west of the Siachen Glacier, but the fact is that the matter had assumed serious proportions and Indira Gandhi's government was deeply concerned.

The reports, that the Pakistanis were making probes ostensibly through tourism and mountaineering groups, were disturbing. The obvious aim of the Pakistanis appeared to be cross the Saltoro heights and head for the Karakoram Pass on the Jammu and Kashmir border with Tibet (China).

But why is this bleak part of the mountainous region so important to India that we are prepared to retain it all these years. The Saltoro Ridge is a formidable ridge that runs roughly north-west to south-east. It overlooks Gilgit and Baltistan to its west and has to be crossed by any one seeking access from Skardu in the Gilgit and Baltistan area through to the Karakoram Pass which enters Tibet. This is not to be confused with the Karakoram Highway which enters Xinjiang through the Khunjerab Pass. Any Pakistani location in Karakoram would be a threat to India in Ladakh from the north in addition to Chinese locations in Aksai Chin.

The genesis of the problem lies in the way India-Pakistan agreements were worked out in Karachi (1949) and Shimla (1972). The ceasefire line or later the Line of Control was left undemarcated from point NJ 9842, and stated that it would run north from this point. This means that north was defined as the true geographical north and not an extension of the line in the direction which would take the line to the Karakoram Pass, something the Pakistanis claimed, wanted and were willing to assert this claim with perhaps an approving Chinese nod. North of Point NJ 9842 meant north to the Siachen and not to Karakoram.

Siachen in the possession of Pakistan would have meant Pakistan would have access from Skardu through to the Karakoram near the Aksai Chin and eventual linking with Shahidullah on the Kashgar-Xigatse road that runs parallel to the Tibet- India border.

Obviously, and given the aggressive manner in which Pakistan had begun to interfere in India, among other things actively inciting Sikh extremists, India could not afford to become vulnerable on another front.

There was no option but to launch Operation Meghdoot on April 13, 1984. The Kumaon Regiment of the Indian Army with cover from the Indian Air Force reached the glacier to occupy two mountain passes at Bilafond La and Sia La while the Pakistan Army could only reach Gyong La. The battle zone was a triangle with point NJ9842 at the bottom, Indira Col due west and Karakoram Pass due east. Indian troops today control two thirds of the area and the world's highest motorable road at Khardung La with a helipad at a place called Sonam, at 21,000 feet. Pakistan overlooks the Nubra and Shyok valleys from the north. Saltoro lies almost exactly due north of Leh and north west of Kargil .


The Saltoro was attained at considerable loss of life, equipment apart from the expenses involved. There were many lives also lost to the harsh climate and the attrition rate was indeed very high in the early days of the campaign. Over time these shortcomings have been removed, the attrition rate is much lower, logistics are nowhere near as nightmarish as they used to be nearly thirty years ago.

Following the avalanche in Skardu which killed 150 Pakistani soldiers, there seems to be renewed talk that India should withdraw from the heights attained with so much sacrifice and at great cost to the nation. Siachen has recently been sneeringly described as 'A struggle of two bald men over a comb' or 'an ego problem between the two armies' and has elsewhere been described by some journalists as a futile war. Let it be said here that no war over one's own territory that is futile.

It is certainly less futile than the US campaign in Iraq. The United States, unable to solve its own problems in the region or for that matter anywhere else, and seeking an early exit from Afghanistan by obliging Pakistan, has offered to assist India and Pakistan in a dialogue. There are reports that the two defence secretaries will meet shortly to discuss Siachen and Sir Creek.

It seems that there is some great urgency to strike a deal and this is more than the usual periodic urge to concede something to Pakistan to look good. There are some Indian commentators who have even argued that India should now forget 26/11 and move forward. Nations that do not remember their past can have no future.

One of the arguments being given is that the cost of retaining Siachen/Saltoro is prohibitive. This is rubbish. At approximately Rs two crores a day it means only Rs 730 crores annually out of a budget that is in the range of Rs 80,000 crores. Even if it were more than this, is there a fixed price for security and freedom? The loss of soldiers to harsh conditions has become minimal for the last many years and the hot war has long been over.

An agreement might have been possible but Pakistani refusal to sign the Agreed Ground Position Line on a specious argument only leads to the suspicion that they would want to alter the position at first dawn. General Pervez Musharraf's Kargil adventure in 1999 was Pakistan's last attempt to change the ground position militarily and politically and also to negate the advantage of Saltoro with India.

The continuing mindset is depicted not only in the rants of Lashkar-e-Tayiba chief Hafiz Saeed [ Images ] but also by what appears in the English press in Pakistan, which include songs in praise of The Hafiz. The Nation in an editorial on March 12 said "We must never lose sight of the fact that Kashmir is a left over issue of the Partition, gifted to us by the British. Unless it is settled in accordance with the Partition Plan, neither the division of India would be complete, nor would the state of Pakistan be complete."

There has not been any evidence of a change of heart in the Pakistan Army -- the institution that calls the shots in Pakistan especially on issues relating to India. Everyone knows that. Thus withdrawal from these strategic heights without any iron clad guarantees that do not extend beyond declarations of intent would be the height of folly. This strategic advantage in Siachen should not be given up for apparent short-term political gains.

The China factor cannot be ignored in this cockpit of the world. It was not so evident in 1984 although the Karakoram Highway had been built by the Chinese by then and Pakistan had illegally ceded a portion of the territory under their control, Shaksgam to them. Today, the Chinese footprint is much larger. In its own strategic interests in the region, China would be interested in greater Pakistani control over Gilgit and Baltistan.

It has been investing $150 million (abour Rs 750 crore) for widening the KKH from 10 metres to 30 metres, to be used by all weather heavy vehicles, the kind that brought strategic material for Pakistan through the Khunjerab.

A rail link was also planned, to be connected with Pakistan's main rail grid, and fiber optic cables were being laid in 2007. If China had a port in Gwadar that they could use, this would cut down the distance from Xinjiang to the Arabian Sea to merely 2,500 km. Today Xinjiang is 4,500 km away from the east coast of China. Gas and oil pipelines through from Gwadar and Xinjiang make sense only if Gilgit and Baltistan is secured. It is not a question of a glacier in the Himalayan heights; it is a question of India's security.

The nation cannot afford to repeat the strategic mistakes of the past -- like halting our advance at Uri in 1948 or not capturing Skardu; or giving up Haji Pir in 1966; or returning 93,000 troops and territory in 1972.

Giving up Siachen as a gesture of friendship would also mean that its recapture would be extremely expensive to India in men and material. Today, as the other side continues to arm itself with newer nuclear weapons, has not called off its jehadi hordes and the only 'concession' it can offer us is an MFN at a future date or lunch at Lahore and dinner at Islamabad.

Pakistani hospitality is legendary but beware of the poisoned chalice.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Mahendra »

There is a major difference between Bakistan and North Korea. Both (abomi)nations are Cheena's biatches and are essentially a military with a country. I don't know how far I am correct but I think a majority North Korean people show pride in their military only and only out of fear and couldnt care less if Kim small dong kicked the bucket any time soon. The Bakis on the other hand genuinely love their military despite all the ills of the rapine genocidal lot being common knowledge. While there is hope for the North Koreans as and when they get rid of the Kim Dong family and acts of charity towards the N Koreans would be acknowledged and perhaps reciprocated by them, in case of Bakistan, that is certainly not going to happen. No amount of wheat, water or electricity or even Jiziya given to the Bakis will reduce their hatred towards us. A starving, blind enemy is better than a semi starving enemy with partial vision.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Anujan »

As per WSJ report, one of the tyres went Paki, donned a soosai vest and burst. The pilot braked and the sudden braking caused the buckling of the landing gear causing one of the wingtips to scrape the ground. So it was much more hair raising than just a tyre burst.

I think that lack of accountability and due process is an inherently Paki thing. In any other country, if OBL were found, the government would have been held responsible. In Paki-land, it could be the Army without the Government's knowledge. The ISI without the government and Army's knowledge. A "rogue" branch of ISI. or Retired ISI or the Military intelligence. Most of the situations where such responsibility is palmed off, it is pure BS. Some situations though has an element of truth in it.

Pakis are kind of how feudalism used to work. Each man runs his own feif. The big King presides over a collection of such barons and dukes and has minimal control over them. Each faction does what it thinks is in its best interests. This summarizes the Government, Army, ISI, MI and various levels of hierarchy within these organizations. This is not just vis-a-vis governance, this is the same case in all institutions. The Airlines come under Ministry of defense in Pakistan. The defence minister draws up a list of requirements and operating procedures. The army chief throws it into a gutter and does what he pleases. The airports authority have no control over who is given license to operate aircraft. Airline operators call out "Arrey oh Saamba!! Make sure all aircrafts are okay". Saamba goes, and yells to his junior "Inspect the aircraft" the juniors drink some tea, eat some samosas and tell "A-okay boss!!"

Contrast this with the SDREs where every bolt tightening should be triple inspected and checked by a balding babu with thick glasses, who gets his babu to sign a form in triplicate, of which 2 copies are made and filed with the local airport and another copy in Airports authority.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Anujan »

http://tribune.com.pk/story/368250/new- ... ping-hand/

Hopefully IMF has learned the Paki tendency to do Taqqiya. Last IMF program they promised GST, power sector reforms, agricultural income tax and increasing the tax net. They did none of that and got all tranches except the last (which IMF canceled). Pakis then (I am not making this up) told IMF that the tranche they did not approve could be considered as the repayment of the first tranche they gave Pakistan!! :mrgreen: Imagine I ask for 20Rs from you, and you give only 10. Then I claim that the 10 you didnt give is a repayment of the 10 you gave me 8) Apart from that Pakis have been admonished for doing Madrassa Math in their fiscal deficit and growth numbers which they reported to IMF (which they had to revise after IMF sent angry letters), And the Pakis claimed that they did so due to lack of trained accountants!

They are going to promise all these and get another loan approved and drag on for 3 years and 3 tranches until finally the IMF cancels the last tranche and it is rinse and repeat.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by arun »

X Posted from the Siachen News and Discussion thread.

Retired Brigadier Javed Hussain of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan who served with the Special Services Group (SSG) lays out the various abortive Pakistani attempts to wrest Siachhen from India . Admits that India’s move to occupy Bilafod La and Sia La passes in the Saltoro Range was a reaction to Pakistan’s attempt to occupy the Siachen glacier:

The fight for Siachen
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Prem »

Saeed dont want to Shaheed, Bahtar ka Chakkar only for fakkars
Pakistani militant Hafiz Mohammad Saeed seeks protection from bounty hunters
The fiery founder of the outlawed Lashkar-i-Taiba, or Army of the Pious, petitioned the justices last week to protect him from U.S.-inspired bounty hunters, saying that Pakistan’s constitution grants him “security of person.” Saeed, 61, also asked the court to bar the Pakistani government from handing him over to U.S. officials — which isn’t expected to happen, anyway. For Saeed, the court is friendly territory. It cleared him in 2009 of charges that he masterminded the attacks that killed 166 people in Mumbai, India’s financial capital, the year before. He was also exonerated by Pakistan’s Supreme Court, which declared that “the India lobby” ginned up the charges.Terrorism experts who track Lashkar-i-Taiba say it has grown from an outfit that in the 1990s was focused mainly on training Islamic zealots to fight for the liberation of Indian-ruled Kashmir into a transnational threat to Western countries, with operations in Britain, Australia and the United States. his book “Pakistan: A Hard Country,” researcher and analyst Anatol Lieven presents this case for why Saeed is a free man: “While the Pakistani authorities could do a great deal more to restrict and detain [Lashkar] activists and leaders, it is extremely difficult to put them on public trial — for the obvious reason that they would then reveal everything about the ISI’s previous backing for their organization.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Pakistan escapes two air tragedies
*Fuel tank of a private plane leaks as it was about to take off from Lahore airport

*Emergency declared as tyre of another plane bursts during landing at Karachi airport
LAHORE/KARACHI: Just two days after the tragic plane crash in Islamabad that killed at least 127 people, two airliners of another private company escaped disaster on Sunday.

In the first incident, one of the tyres of a Shaheen Air plane burst as it landed at Karachi’s Jinnah International Airport. However, all the 122 passengers and six crewmembers on board remained safe, Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) spokesman Pervez George said. Emergency was declared at the airport. He said the plane, a Boeing 737, coming from Islamabad landed at the airport at 12:16pm. Its left tyre burst as it landed. The CAA director general, Nadeem Khan Yousufzai, has ordered an immediate inquiry, the spokesman said.

According to reports, the plane was to land at the 25-L runway at the Jinnah International Airport. A malfunction in the landing gear caused the tyre to burst. Firefighters were called in to prevent a fire. The runway was reopened eight hours after the incident. Meanwhile, at least three planes were diverted to Nawabshah airport.

The second near-tragedy came when the fuel tank of another plane of the same airline began leaking as it was about to take off from the Lahore airport. Airport officials said the plane, carrying more than 200 passengers, was stopped before it was about to take off for Mashhad, Iran, as the authorities noticed a leakage in the fuel tank.

Officials said the Boeing 737 had arrived from Dubai and was heading to the Iranian city when technicians noticed the leak. They attributed the leakage to overfilling of the fuel tanks. All the passengers were disembarked and transferred to the international lounge where they staged a protest. The CAA has fined the private airline for not maintaining its aircraft according to standards. agencies
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Satya_anveshi »

At this rate, air travel will come to a halt in pukistan or PIA will remove remaining toilets to make room for additional passengers and also might "adjust" some passengers on the wings.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Lilo »

^^Ayoo...
So the RAPE in Karachi have to stay put in Karachi and same for those in La'hole-Islampindi
I propose to give each stranded RAPE its own cuntry :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by brihaspati »

Surinder,
it will go OT here! But if one looks at the early campaigns, one sees - a pattern. The modus operandi was relatively controlled until the death of first wife, and for some time until personal appropriation of the conquered's women started. From then on, the situation deteriorated rapidly - with increasingly outrageous claims, and military misadventures. Just before passing away a disastrous campaign against the Byzantines was ordered on the face of increasing criticism of the follower "hypocrites". Note that success in the children department was limited in spite of nine women [this in spite of claims that great care was taken to do justice to all nine every time one was favoured]. The only success came from first wife, with the only child born to one "right hand possession" afterwards, dying as an infant.

I have a standard suspicion of myths about dead bodies vanishing to climb straight to paradise [not Pandavas - who are clearly stated to have started on the trek alive, and in full sight of relatives] - especially in societies which did not cremate - in that the body perhaps carries traces of diseases that would tarnish a certain desired image when the rituals regarding cleaning and wrapping of the body would be carried out.. [This is about really dead bodies in their advanced age - and not people in their primes - for whom vanishing might mean something entirely different].

The Caliphate history is the same. Seljuk/Mameluk/Fatimid/Ummayid/Abbasid/Ottoman. All have the same pattern. The connection of "madness" and Ottomans is well studied. Delhi sultanate and perhaps to an extent the Mughals show this also.

In TSP, the generals' episodic descent into delusion/paranoia and blunders are well known. The extreme sexual unhealthiness - in psychological terms - of ME and Paki society should be obvious, and their impact on ruling brains must also be self-evident.

The Pakis are fond of their Hijras too - and Afghans their bacchabazi. There are some indications of enforced sex-slavery on captured beautiful boys among the illustrious islamic invaders of India - especially in the early days of expansion in the Punjab. If as it is suspected by some researchers - that the tendency could be genetic - then there is perhaps some lead in the pencil of the hypothesis that such a gene might be active in current Pakjabi jarnails too from the paternal gift.

shivji - also I think there are eye-witness accounts of the late medieval and early modern - of Arabs and their "boy-wives" on camels in kafelas.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Prem »

Lilo wrote:^^Ayoo...
So the RAPE in Karachi have to stay put in Karachi and same for those in La'hole-Islampindi
I propose to give each stranded RAPE its own cuntry :rotfl:
Poaqs ought to be thankfull. Look at the bright side , Pakistan will never have any train accident any more . Abduls will be safe at home instead of travelling by Train , Plane or Poaqmobile. Hawai Carpet can also be imported from Beertaher Sandy Deshs.

O Karachi ke Musafir , Kagaz pei tum likha lei
Teri Aakhri khwahish kya hai,
Boarding se pehle humme tuu jarra batta dei .
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by ramana »

Bji, Have you read Sir Richard Burton's hypothesis that there is a prevalence for males as objects of desire in wide swath of region from West of Indus to the Mediterranean? He thinks its inherited malaise.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Atri »

ramana wrote:Bji, Have you read Sir Richard Burton's hypothesis that there is a prevalence for males as objects of desire in wide swath of region from West of Indus to the Mediterranean? He thinks its inherited malaise.
It is suspected that RB had prostituted himself in the brothel of Karachi to discover the Gay-brothels rampant in the city. This chapter of his life is heavily censored and made him controversial.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by kmkraoind »

Despite Kayani’s peace talk, a ‘Siachen deal’ is a bad idea - B. Raman - Firstpost
Pakistan is paying a heavier price than India in Siachen in terms of financial and human costs. Moreover, signs of alienation among the Shia population of Gilgit-Baltistan have been increasing steadily. The fact that the majority of those who perished in the avalanche were from Gilgit-Baltistan— and possibly Shias— and that none of them could be rescued has added to the anger against the Army in the area.

Talks on the need for a stand-alone Siachen agreement with India are therefore a desperate urgency for Pakistan. Kayani has to respond to this desperation if he has to prevent a further erosion of support for the Army from the people of the area.

Kayani’s remarks have the tactical objective of responding to the local anger and projecting India as responsible for the lack of a forward movement on the Siachen issue. His remarks thus have an international as well as a domestic angle.

It would be unwise for India to agree to any stand-alone agreement on Siachen. Any ultimate agreement on Siachen has to be part of an overall package that would address India’s concerns relating to (a) the suppression of the Shias of Gilgit-Baltistan who have ethnic links with Shias of Jammu and Kashmir; and (b) the increasing Chinese presence in the area.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Neela »

Anujan wrote:
Pakis are kind of how feudalism used to work. Each man runs his own feif. The big King presides over a collection of such barons and dukes and has minimal control over them. Each faction does what it thinks is in its best interests. This summarizes the Government, Army, ISI, MI and various levels of hierarchy within these organizations. This is not just vis-a-vis governance, this is the same case in all institutions. The Airlines come under Ministry of defense in Pakistan. The defence minister draws up a list of requirements and operating procedures. The army chief throws it into a gutter and does what he pleases. The airports authority have no control over who is given license to operate aircraft. Airline operators call out "Arrey oh Saamba!! Make sure all aircrafts are okay". Saamba goes, and yells to his junior "Inspect the aircraft" the juniors drink some tea, eat some samosas and tell "A-okay boss!!"
Thank you for putting it so succinctly. Explains so many things.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by shiv »


How is it that hundreds of thousands of artillery shells fired into Pakistan over years, and a continuous monthly string of Pakistanis being killed at the border represent a weak Indian response to the extent that India is painted as a nation that never responds, while "firing four times from Afghanistan into Pakistan" as the news item above actually reads is whopping Paki butt? Seriously? Firing four times at Pakistaan is "whipping Paki butt"? Breivik did better than that. It's not even funny.

The impression that is given of American actions is wildly in excess of the effect it has, while Indian actions are either ineffective or constitute inaction. This is actually beyond the pale - and may have more to do with mental impressions of macho Americans versus weak SDREs with their short and weak woman "President". It's the old Indian "self image" of what Indians think they appear to be. Wrong thread.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by vdutta »

Have headache in Pakistan? Get Canadian visa

http://tribune.com.pk/story/368485/trea ... by-healer/
FAISALABAD:

A woman was reportedly raped by a spiritual healer in Chiniot on Saturday. Hameeda Bibi,* resident of Mohallah Ghafoorabad, told police that she was raped at Peer Bawa Hayat Shah’s abode. She said she had visited Shah to seek treatment for her headache.

A couple, Sardaran Bibi and Mudassir, were also sitting when she arrived. She said Shah had locked the room and first chanted some stuff to ‘cure the headache’ but then harassed her with a gun and he and one Mudassir had raped her.

Police said they had arrested Muddasir and were looking for Shah and the woman. Chiniot City SHO Naveed Murtaza said that Mudassir had confessed to raping Hameeda but denied anyone else was there. He said a medical examination had confirmed the rape.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by sudhan »

shiv wrote:
How is it that hundreds of thousands of artillery shells fired into Pakistan over years, and a continuous monthly string of Pakistanis being killed at the border represent a weak Indian response to the extent that India is painted as a nation that never responds, while "firing four times from Afghanistan into Pakistan" as the news item above actually reads is whopping Paki butt? Seriously? Firing four times at Pakistaan is "whipping Paki butt"? Breivik did better than that. It's not even funny.

The impression that is given of American actions is wildly in excess of the effect it has, while Indian actions are either ineffective or constitute inaction. This is actually beyond the pale - and may have more to do with mental impressions of macho Americans versus weak SDREs with their short and weak woman "President". It's the old Indian "self image" of what Indians think they appear to be. Wrong thread.
Saar, I have never made any comparison between Indian and American responses to cross-border firing. I know how the Indian forces 'welcome' the 2 legged vermin and artillery from across the border.

I was merely expressing my glee at the possibility that there is a lot more paki casualties happening across the AF-PAK border at the hands of the Amrikaans than what's being revealed in public. For example.. from the article..
But when pressed by CNN, and asked whether it was correct to say that he had fired into Pakistan more than five times, he responded: "That sounds accurate."
Gen. Athar Abbas, a spokesman for the Pakistani military, said he did not know the exact number of times FOB Tillman fired into Pakistan, but that four sounded accurate.
Sounds to me like the Americans just dont talk about it but regularly engage the Paki forces beyond the Afghan borders.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by surinder »

Brihaspati, thanks for the information.

The brave Ghazis and their Bachchabazie makes interesting stories.

In some sense this is our protection too--the more deranged their mind is, less danger they are to the world.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Rohit_K »

BENIS material but posting here for greater coverage.

Pakis singing Kishore Kumar's Yeh Shaam Mastani on March 23 (Pk resolution day)

forward to 3 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnncf7eGHNc

:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by brihaspati »

ramanaji,
yes I read about RB's hypothesis. The whole subject disgusts me, so I have not been able to make as thorough a study of it as would have been satisfactory for me. But my brief investigation showed me some consistent patterns : the indiscriminate sexual appetite with little or no self-control mechanisms, a sexual predatory tendency on the vulnerable - women and children of both gender, homosexual or more accurately bisexual [perhaps to cover for the homosexual tendency in a society and theology that formally derides it], possibility of syphilis induced neurological malaise and its reflections in public life and policy. There is a certain line of thinking - by which the central Asian arc of the Indo-European expansion "out-of-India" - developed a possible genetic mutation that gives slightly greater probability of male births over females, and a compensatory adaptation followed with greater female fecundity and a matching increased proportion of male homsexualism [hormonal and in turn related to genetic causes]. This is seen to be connected to warmongering in combination with homosexualism.

This would be consistent with the pattern seen from historical times - in the general expansion direction of north-west of India towards eastern Mediterranean - including classical Romans and Greeks.

Persians were a hotbed of this too. They made it a custom almost of collecting beautiful boys [just as they collected girls] of the empire, castrating them and using them as concubines. Bagoas - declared by many greek authors to be Alex's "eromenos" - was one such. The Persian component of the Delhi sultanate showed the same hunger. Their influence - perhaps even genetic - from the paternal side, and hence in a few generations also through the female side [the original homosexual would be carrying the component passed on by the female line] would therefore be part of the Pakjabi profile. The Arab spread into persia and early conquest of the Turks and Mongols would spread the genes too - which in turn would be carried forward as the Turks and Mongols turned westwards.

Before the Arabs could spread out - they had been screwed well by the Parthian empire and the Roman byzantine empires - so the genetic meme could be transferred to the Arab earlier.
Last edited by brihaspati on 23 Apr 2012 19:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Lalmohan »

is it all genetic, or is there an element of learned behaviour?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by brihaspati »

Surinder,
the problem with their derangement is - that if it remains within the pool, it will periodically crop up in genocidal waves, before it dissolves in its own madness.

Lalmohan ji,
could be learned also. But in general, human sexuality is predominantly geared towards heterosexualism - as one would expect from natural selection.

There is another aspect of the ME culture - and peculiarly favoured in Islamic historical societies, is that of impalement as punishment, and decapitation. The fondness for impalement perhaps covers for a symbolic transfer of the desire to homosexually rape as expressible in public on a defeated male enemy. The decapitation binge is perhaps connected to the castration fantasies, as well as circumcision.

The connection between impalement and homosexual rape has already been speculated on about Vlad the impaler in connection with the Ottomans. Vlad had been given up as a hostage to the Ottoman court as a boy and could return only when he became an adult. Vlad's most favourite method was impalement.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by surinder »

B-Ji, Thanks.

That we were dominated by such abominable societies is surprising. But this is a narrative they probably don't want to delve too much into.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by KJo »

Rohit_K wrote:BENIS material but posting here for greater coverage.

Pakis singing Kishore Kumar's Yeh Shaam Mastani on March 23 (Pk resolution day)

forward to 3 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnncf7eGHNc

:rotfl:
Good singer though!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Lalmohan »

b-ji, yes good observation on vlad
interestingly shaka zulu also liked impalement, but there is no suggestion of such inclinations amongst the zulus
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Sushupti »

brihaspati wrote:Surinder,
it will go OT here! But if one looks at the early campaigns, one sees - a pattern. The modus operandi was relatively controlled until the death of first wife, and for some time until personal appropriation of the conquered's women started. From then on, the situation deteriorated rapidly - with increasingly outrageous claims, and military misadventures. Just before passing away a disastrous campaign against the Byzantines was ordered on the face of increasing criticism of the follower "hypocrites". Note that success in the children department was limited in spite of nine women [this in spite of claims that great care was taken to do justice to all nine every time one was favoured]. The only success came from first wife, with the only child born to one "right hand possession" afterwards, dying as an infant.

I have a standard suspicion of myths about dead bodies vanishing to climb straight to paradise [not Pandavas - who are clearly stated to have started on the trek alive, and in full sight of relatives] - especially in societies which did not cremate - in that the body perhaps carries traces of diseases that would tarnish a certain desired image when the rituals regarding cleaning and wrapping of the body would be carried out.. [This is about really dead bodies in their advanced age - and not people in their primes - for whom vanishing might mean something entirely different].

The Caliphate history is the same. Seljuk/Mameluk/Fatimid/Ummayid/Abbasid/Ottoman. All have the same pattern. The connection of "madness" and Ottomans is well studied. Delhi sultanate and perhaps to an extent the Mughals show this also.

In TSP, the generals' episodic descent into delusion/paranoia and blunders are well known. The extreme sexual unhealthiness - in psychological terms - of ME and Paki society should be obvious, and their impact on ruling brains must also be self-evident.

The Pakis are fond of their Hijras too - and Afghans their bacchabazi. There are some indications of enforced sex-slavery on captured beautiful boys among the illustrious islamic invaders of India - especially in the early days of expansion in the Punjab. If as it is suspected by some researchers - that the tendency could be genetic - then there is perhaps some lead in the pencil of the hypothesis that such a gene might be active in current Pakjabi jarnails too from the paternal gift.

shivji - also I think there are eye-witness accounts of the late medieval and early modern - of Arabs and their "boy-wives" on camels in kafelas.
GHILMANS AND EUNUCHS

Muslim sultans were very fond of handsome young slaves whom they kept close to their persons as pages, service-boys, bodyguards, special troops and as gay companions. Infatuation for such slaves was a bane of the life of Muslim royalty and nobility in particular, although they considered it to be a fashion. P.K. Hitti has this to say about them, “Ghilman, who might also be eunuchs, were the recipients of special favours from their masters, wore rich and attractive uniforms and often beautified and perfumed their bodies in effeminate fashion. We read of ghilman in the reign of al-Rashid; but it was evidently the caliph al-Amin who, following Persian precedent, established in the Arabic world the ghilman institution for the practice of unnatural sexual relations. A judge of whom there is record used four hundred such youths. Poets did not disdain to give public expression to their perverted passions and to address amorous pieces of their compositions to beardless young boys.”1

Muslim rulers and nobles in India were not lagging behind in these ‘perverted passions.’ Muhammad Hindu Shah Farishtah in his Tarikh and Khondamir in his Dasturul Wuzra relate the following incident about Mahmud Ghaznavi. Sultan Mahmud had a passion for slaves possessing handsome faces. His Wazir Abul Abbas Fazl bin Ahmad followed his example. “Fazl, on hearing the reputation of the beauty of a boy in Turkistan, deputed a confidential person to purchase that boy (whose countenance was beautiful as that of the planet Venus), and bring him to Ghazni, according to the mode of conveyance usually adopted for females. When an informer represented to the king these circumstances, his most august Majesty demanded that slave (who was as white as silver) from the minister… The minister made evasive replies, and pertinaciously refused to part with the slave, notwithstanding His Majesty’s absolute power. The king one night visited the minister at his house (without prior notice), where the minister entertained him with respect and hospitality due to the dignity of a sovereign. When the slave (who looked as beautiful as a virgin of paradise) came into the presence of the king, high words passed between him and his minister, and so greatly was the king’s anger kindled, that he issued orders to seize the minister and plunder his house. Soon after this the king departed for Hindustan, and certain evil-disposed amirs tortured the minister so severely with the rack that he lost his life.” After him the old Khwaja Ahmad bin Hasan Maimandi was appointed to the office of Wazir.2

Sultan Mahmud’s “court was guarded by four thousand Turkish good looking and beardless (ghulam turk washaq) slave-youths, who, on days of public audience, were stationed on the right and left of throne,- two thousand of them with caps ornamented with four feathers, bearing golden maces, on the right hand, and the other two thousand, with caps adorned with two feathers, bearing silver maces, on the left… As these youths attained into man’s estate and their beards began to grow, they were attached to a separate corps, and placed occasionally under the command of rulers of provinces.”3 Shams Siraj Afif’s description of acquisition and distribution of handsome slave boys by Sultan Firoz Tughlaq points to similar arrangement.

The number of royal slaves (bandgan-i-Khas) was usually very large. They were invariably good looking, bought or captured at early age. Many foreign purchased slaves were also similarly chosen. Out of these, a few became favourites of the sultans and sometimes rose to the highest positions in life like Kafur Hazardinari under Alauddin Khalji and Khusaru Khan under Qutbuddin Mubarak Khalji. During Alauddin Khalji’s invasion of Gujarat, his generals had brought immense booty from there including Raja Karan’s consort Kamla Devi and the handsome slave Malik Kafur Hazardinari. The Sultan fell in love with both. In the words of Farishtah, he converted Kamala Devi to Islam and married her, and treating Kafur as a favourite “tied the sacred thread (zunnar) of his love in his own waist.”4 Khusrau Khan was brought from Malwa under similar circumstances. The rise of these catamites was due as much to their ‘beauty’ and nearness to the king as to their ambition and conspiratorial genius. So long as Alauddin held a firm grip on the administration, Malik Kafur served him with loyalty and won victories on his behalf in lands far and near. Once the king’s health declined and he became dependent upon his dear slave-noble, the latter managed or at least attempted to poison him.5 After Alauddin’s death he gathered all political power into his own hands. Mubarak Khalji in his turn fell in love with his favourite Khusrau Khan. Like Malik Kafur, Khusrau Khan also provided pleasure to Qutbuddin and at the same time marched with armies to preserve and extend his master’s dominions. But when an opportunity came handy he killed his patron. Mubarak Khalji lost his life because of his degenerate nature. In 1318 his favourite slave and Wazir Khusrau Khan led an expedition to the south where he seized much booty. As had happened in the case of Prince Alauddin, the wealth of the Deccan inflamed the ambition of Khusrau Khan and he began to plan to occupy the throne of Delhi. His plans fructified soon enough because of the Sultan’s depravity. Qutbuddin was blinded by the infatuation he had for Khusrau Khan, and unable to bear his separation any longer sent for him from the Deccan. Khusrau Khan was taken in a palanquin post-haste from Devagiri to Delhi where he arrived in a week’s time. One day Khusrau engaged the king in his intimate company and got him killed.6 The custom of taking favourite slaves in palanquins seems to have been common so that Sultan Sikandar Lodi (1489-1517) could boast that “If I order one of my slaves to be seated in a palanquin, the entire body of nobility would carry him on their shoulders at my bidding.”7 This statement incidentally conveys an idea of the importance of handsome favourite slaves and also reflects on the status of nobles under autocratic Muslim rulers.



http://voiceofdharma.org/books/mssmi/ch9.htm
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by johneeG »

brihaspati wrote:Surinder,
the problem with their derangement is - that if it remains within the pool, it will periodically crop up in genocidal waves, before it dissolves in its own madness.

Lalmohan ji,
could be learned also. But in general, human sexuality is predominantly geared towards heterosexualism - as one would expect from natural selection.

There is another aspect of the ME culture - and peculiarly favoured in Islamic historical societies, is that of impalement as punishment, and decapitation. The fondness for impalement perhaps covers for a symbolic transfer of the desire to homosexually rape as expressible in public on a defeated male enemy. The decapitation binge is perhaps connected to the castration fantasies, as well as circumcision.

The connection between impalement and homosexual rape has already been speculated on about Vlad the impaler in connection with the Ottomans. Vlad had been given up as a hostage to the Ottoman court as a boy and could return only when he became an adult. Vlad's most favourite method was impalement.
Bji,
sorry for the seeming self-goal, just wanted to be clear on the issue:
Impalement and decapitation seem to be used as punishments in ancient India as well. So, is there always a link between these punishments with homosexual fantasies...?

---------

Anyway, great posts by you, Shiv ji, Surinder. Indeed, this gives a whole new meaning to the word 'jhoota'!

---------
Anujan saar,
excellent analysis of paki nashun and its essential feudal nature.

--------
Sushupti saar,
great find. +1. It makes for a disgusting read.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by Jarita »

Lalmohan wrote:is it all genetic, or is there an element of learned behaviour?

Can syphilis pass through multiple generations? Also would not getting fresh blood (females) dilute the effect of the malaise somewhat? This is fascinating because it may explain the violence and paranoia which is illogical and inconceivable by a stable human mind. It's like a danava

This may explain the excesses of 1971, Saurabh Kalia etc. This is bordering on "sociopathic behavior". Explains a lot that this could be genetic because the community spread with the males capturing the women. The gene has stayed

Perhaps a lot of Indian epics that have villains are actually reflective of strange diseases and neurosis.
Last edited by Jarita on 23 Apr 2012 22:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Post by svinayak »

Hilarious article

Indian military might is overplayed
21 November, 2011
http://paktribune.com/articles/Indian-m ... 42813.html

By Asif Haroon Raja
Do you consdier Indian WMDs a serious threat to world peace and security ?

Basing on tangible factors of its armed forces coupled with its nuclear strength, India claims to be the strongest military power in South Asia. America has now started to authenticate its claims.
26/11 was the biggest disaster after 9/11 since ten terrorists took the Mumbai city hostage and battled elite forces of Indian Army, coastal guards, paramilitary forces and police for 72 hours. Nine of the attackers were ultimately killed after Israeli and South African commandoes barged in, otherwise the saga could have prolonged. 166 people including the attackers died in the shootout.
India claiming to be a world power capable of taking on China and Pakistan at a time didn’t pick up courage to take part in war on terror or to spare troops for invasion of Iraq. Instead it opted for cowardly covert war against Pakistan and that too using Afghan soil.
Once terrorism over floods India, in no time it will get converted from India shining to India darkness. Wisdom and discretion demands India to come out of its fancy world of Mahabharata and become more levelheaded.
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