Shankk wrote:rsangram, what is the exact thing that is bothering you? Why is it so hard for you understand the resentment amongst the members here?
- It is abundantly clear that India wanted NM to be a PM. It is a proven fact now and no more a wishful thinking.*
- America actively tried to sabotage any chances of election of NM as PM. US senator is on record confirming that.*
- India is a sovereign democratic country and US claims to be a friend but covertly tried to sabotage the aspirations of majority.*
- It is proven beyond doubt that America has interests in Asian and middle eastern countries keep fighting with each other so the west derives benefit out of it. Even if you ignore the world, take a look at India and Pakistan...they have always tried to foment the fights between two countries while paying lip service to talks and peace. BTW that is one of the main reason why US wants to get itself involved in India Pakistan peace initiatives...they can find ways to scuttle any such initiative. In American terminology "being in driver seat"
People see it and react to it. You apparently don't like it. What do you expect from Indians in general and BRFites on this forum?
Resentment is OK. I feel the resentment too. I guess, I was never overly enamored with either Massa or the West to begin with, to feel "let down", or "betrayed", which seems to be the source of a lot of the angst and hurt feelings here. I suspect, again I am not sure, but I suspect, some of the ill feelings also arise here from individual bad experiences in the US or US Embassy or Consulates or from individuals on the forum who are part of the elite in India and therefore, enjoy a privileged life in India and are not terribly bothered by the status quo in India, and in fact have a stake in perpetuating the status quo in India. Status quo in India looks bad, very bad by all measures to status quo in the US. So, a reflexive over criticism of the US emerges from a defensive mindset, which is meant to defend the status quo in India, no matter how bad it gets. How else can we make Indian status quo look good or even not as bad or even if bad, somewhat defensible, compared to the US ?
However, there is a difference between just resentment which in a lot of cases is perfectly justified, although not in all cases, and the kind of vitriol we are hurling, which ideally should be reserved for the real arch enemies, such as the ones of Islamic ilk. Of course, the US is flawed at many levels. There is no question that its foundations were established by stealing Native American land and committing a genocide against them. There is also no question that the institution of slavery was established to exploit the newly stolen land. Further, there is no question that this beacon of democracy then stole roughly half of Mexico(California, Arizona and other Western States) through James Polk's Mexican wars in the late 1840s. There is no question that post abolition of slavery, there developed in the South of the US, an airtight and oppressive set of laws, known collectively as the "Jim Crow" laws, which totally segregated the races and condemned the black folk to extreme poverty, political disenfrenchisement and backwardness. (These Jim Crow laws were finally repealed as late as 1964, by Lyndon Johnson's passage of the Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, the same Voting Rights Act which was all but repealed by the US Supreme Court in 2014.) Further more, there is also no question that the US practically had a "Whites Only" immigration policy till as late as 1965, when again Lyndon Johnson with the help of Teddy Kennedy passed the landmark 1965 immigration act which made immigration to the US possible for the first time for more than a handful of non-whites around the world, including India. There are countless other slightly less significant errors of morality and ethics by the US, the latest examples of them being arming Pakistan, condoning Chinese Nuclear proliferation to PAki, going into Iraq to overthrow the most liberal and secular Arab regime and continuing to arm Paki, despite the Pakis killing Americans in Afghanistan. There can be no doubt that Hubris and Stupidity have lately been the hallmark of US policy.
Having said all of that, let me ask you this. Has the Indian Civilization as a whole not been at least as suicidal and self-defeating over the centuries and much more so in the past 65 years, as the US has been oppressive of others ? Have the Indians been not at least as internally corrupt as US has been externally corrupt ? Is it not true that had we Hindus been a people of better character and less corrupt (I am not seeking perfection, but just plain somewhat better), is it not true that we would have been able to repulse the Islamic invasions with relative and considerable ease and certainly not allowed the British to gain any foothold on our land, no matter how much gun powder they had or how imperialistic their intentions were or how expansionist and malicious? When we as Hindus were dealt such a good hand historically, great land, great start, great philosophy, great characters and heroes, great mythology, great climate, great gifts or natural resources, and many other greats........dont you think we should have not messed up these great gifts and developed the ability to at least be masters of our own destiny if not of the whole world ? Our follies and a series of follies and centuries of follies will go down in history as probably the greatest opportunity lost ever by any people or civilization and would go down as the largest squandering of a good thing in history. This is a huge crime, our self made follies and lost opportunities, probably the largest crime in history, which we can blame not the Chinese, not the Islamists, not the British, not the West and yes, not at all, Massa. It is all our own doing. Seriously flawed collective and individual decisions day after day, year after year, decade after decade, century after century, millennium after millennium. We just never stop making bad decisions and never learn. In addition to new ways of making mistakes and being self-destructive, we are also the greatest repeaters of the same mistakes in history.
Given the above, I find the vitriol hurled at another, particularly another which has not been as lethal to us as some of the others, despite all its moral failings of which there are many, some of the major ones I listed above, is laughable. It is almost like we want to scapegoat someone, for all the serial mistakes we have ourselves ever made. And then on top of it, we blame the one country, Massa, which at least engages with us somewhat and allows some of our people to come and live there. Which other country even allows us Indians to migrate and live even in the minimal dignity that we live in Massa ? Germany ? Britain ? China ? France ? Russia ? East "Idi Amin" Africa ? West "boka Haram" Africa? Arabia ? or our great favorite lately, Japan ? Are any of these countries less racist ? Are any of these countries less imperialist or expansionist when and if it ever gets a chance? Are any of these countries less of thieves of other people's resources ? Now, listen to this. At least, Massa, with all its history of barbarity and even current hypocrisy, in relative terms is more open, more introspective, has a vigorous internal debate about its follies, far more than us. Yes, it does not come close to its self image, but unfortunately, it is the best we've got. Humanity has just not advanced as far as we like to believe or as Massa would like to believe. But in relative terms, unfortunately, you cant find anything better in today,s world. No, I am sorry, India is not better. It may be better than the US in terms of exploiting others, but its self-destructive traits drag us way down, to where we are a hugely negative society.
And I have some news for you. Of all the countries in the world, no one is really a genuine friend of India's, no not even Bhutan. The government in exile of Tibet come closest. And as bad as this may sound, but in relative terms, the only country with any significant power that we can reach some sort of even an imperfect alliance with(not friendship) in today's, is unfortunately, Massa. And trust me, we need allies. We absolutely need allies, as imperfect as they may be and as imperfect as we are.
It is therefore, laughable, that we spew such venom at Massa, particularly when we couple this venom with statements like "We can do business with China, but not Massa", or "Paki problem is our family problem", as if Paki is such an affectionate little brother we have. It is a classic case of collective pychosis, where we need to brutally bash the other to collectively feel better about ourselves. No, positive effort towards genuinely feeling good via self-improvement is too utopian and too far of a reach for us Indians. Collective bashing of the "other" is so much easier. And also this is a classic case of Indians being too clever by half. They know that collective bashing and hurling abuse at Massa will not result in the sort of immediate and more lethal retaliation that the Islamists and the Chinese can and will orchestrate. So, in a sense, barking at Massa, is a free shot for us, a free collective bashing of them with no adverse consequences or risk, so let us let it all hang out and hurl that green bile........at Massa.
