Indian Military Aviation

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Jan 2010 01:11

Wedgetail identifies India as a possible customer

DATE:26/01/10
SOURCE:Flight International
Airborne early warning redefined by 737, MESA and perseverence
By Stephen Trimble

Boeing and Northrop Grumman agreed on a concept in 1996 for packaging a popular aircraft with a powerful new radar. Boeing would modify its best-selling 737 to carry Northrop's multi-role electronically scanned array (MESA), a new kind of airborne radar conceived at the height of the Cold War. The combination would spark a dormant market for airborne early warning even as it profoundly changed the market's demand for radar performance.

Boeing has now delivered the first two 737 airborne early warning and control aircraft to the Royal Australian Air Force under Project Wedgetail, a landmark achievement in the history of airborne radar, but tarnished by a series of delays and cost overruns.

Boeing's team has persevered through setbacks that could have scuttled even less ambitious programmes, and now the 737 AEW&C sits unrivalled in the market for a jet-powered, high-altitude, airborne radar with room for 10 operators and crew.

© Boeing

MARKET RESPONSE

The market has responded to the availability of Boeing's current successor to the E-3 airborne warning and control system, the pioneer system that defined the role that the Wedgetail fleet will shortly assume.

In addition to the six aircraft ordered by the RAAF, the Turkish air force's Peace Eagle contract adds four aircraft and the more recent Peace Eye deal for South Korea's E-X contract adds four more.

But the 737 AEW&C's sales experience in the decade ahead is likely to determine how history judges the success of Boeing and Northrop's concept.

The United Arab Emirates is becoming better acquainted with the capabilities of an advanced airborne radar system. Boeing's 737-based offering faces a formidable challenge from Northrop's E-2D Advanced Hawkeye in Abu Dhabi, where mission radius is perhaps less demanding than in Australia.

An even more promising market for the 737 AEW&C is shaping up in India, which has already agreed to purchase the 737-based Boeing P-8I. India is expected to release a request for proposals this year, with the navy and air force queuing for Wedgetail-like capability.

How the 737 AEW&C competes for the ultimate prize - the US Air Force E-3 AWACS replacement - remains at least another decade away. Such a contract will almost certainly feature a MESA-like array, but whether on the 737 or a larger platform is still open for debate.

The 737 is big enough for 14 operators who can make on-the-spot tactical decisions. Meanwhile, there is no doubt that the 737 AEW&C defines the new standard in its market space. As its software matures and its deficiencies are resolved, the vision launched by Boeing and Northrop will be realised.

"As we move forward with Australia I believe we're going to see Wedgetail being the centrepiece of how the [RAAF] fights in the future. And we're going to see for 30, 40, 50 years continued growth in that capability," says Tony Parasida, Boeing vice-president and general manger of airborne anti-submarine warfare and intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance programmes.

The decision to install the MESA radar on the 737 by now seems obvious, but it may not have looked so easy in 1996. It would be the first time Boeing adapted its franchise airliner - the best-selling commercial aircraft in history - for a purely military use. The 737 is now the platform for Boeing's anti-submarine warfare and maritime patrol P-8A/I Poseidon, and is proposed to succeed the US Navy's Lockheed EP-3.

"With the 737-based solution you have sensor operators in the back of the airplane that can make command and control decisions. You can't do that in a small airplane," Parasida says. "The 737 is huge. You can put up to 14 operators in the back of the airplane. You can make tactical decisions right there. So that I think is the key feature."

With a maximum take-off weight of 77,565kg (170,850lb), the 737-700 increased gross weight offered a relatively inexpensive platform still large enough to carry the MESA antenna, which measures 10.7m (35ft) long and 4.6m tall, as well as the ability to store enough power to operate the radar and enough fuel to provide 10h endurance.

To integrate the 3t antenna, Boeing would have to make its most substantial airframe modifications to Section 46, the stretch of the 737 fuselage that lies between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading tip of the dorsal fin fearing.

Boeing details the changes: "Section 46 of the fuselage is substantially reinforced in the upper lobe above the floor line. The original Section 46 upper lobe is removed at existing splice joints and replaced with a heavily reinforced upper lobe section provided by Spirit AeroSystems. The MESA radar antenna mates with 11 pairs of fittings at 11 consecutive fuselage frames in Section 46. The original Section 46 frames are replaced with heavy machined frames to support the MESA flight loads."

Compensating for the MESA antenna's aerodynamic changes, Boeing has attached three-spar ventral fins on each side of the lower fuselage.

The cabin interior is divided into three sections. In the forward cabin, two communication cabinets - the first containing intercom and terrestrial links, and the second managing UHF and satellite links - stand nestled between the cockpit and crew stations. Five mission consoles, each seating two mission operators, consume much of the forward cabin. Another cabinet houses the mission data processor. An eight-seat crew rest area fills the space between the forward and aft cabins.

The aft cabin - Section 46 - structurally supports the antenna, and stores the radar electronics, as well as a sophisticated cooling system. The ceiling of the cabin is filled with the transmit/receive modules that are used to steer the beam emitted by the MESA antenna.

SYSTEM HEART

The heart of the 737 AEW&C system is, of course, the MESA array. There are several different ways to build an airborne radar to provide 360° coverage.

The E-3, for example, has a Northrop APY-2 radar that steers the antenna with a rotodome that rotates around the aircraft at the rate of 6RPM. While a simple and effective approach, target tracks can be revisited only as fast as the antenna can rotate.

A second approach to achieve 360° coverage is to package three electronically scanned arrays into a triangle-shaped radome, dispensing with the rotodome. Israel's Elta Systems used this design for India's Il-76 AWACS system, which was first delivered in May 2009. A possible drawback of this system is the extra weight and complexity required to install the three arrays atop the aircraft.

For the MESA antenna, Northrop hoped to achieve the 360° coverage requirement without the need for a rotodome or three array panels. Instead, the antenna module includes two back-to-back arrays, each scanning a 120° field of view, and an endfire mounted at the top looking 60° front or aft.

This configuration means the MESA can point the beam nearly simultaneously in any direction. The design also allows the radar to change how quickly the beam can be moved to revisit the target by reprioritising where the radar's power is focused.

By comparison, an E-3-like rotating array only scans a target once as it revolves every 10s. Using endfire technology, the MESA can take power focused in one direction and refocus it into space if tracking priorities change. The more concentrated beam can also search deeper into the airspace, or detect smaller or perhaps stealthy targets within normal ranges.

The effect of the MESA approach is the ability to put a beam on a target of interest anywhere in the airspace, and maintain the track to stay aware of the target's activity. Boeing calls this capability "beam on demand", and it expresses the heart of MESA technology's revolutionary approach to airborne radar.

Project Wedgetail will enter operational service three years late and at an extra cost to Boeing greater than $1 billion, which the company accepted as a write-down. Despite doubts raised by the unexpected technical challenges, a three-week exercise conducted from late April to mid-May helped to restore confidence in the 737's capabilities.

The exercise, named Arnhem Thunder, allowed RAAF crews to fly the Wedgetail system in both offensive and defensive counter-air missions. The system flew six sorties in the three-week period, with multiple fighter engagements performed during each sortie. The results, although classified, suitably impressed the RAAF, with Air Marshal Mark Binskin describing Arnhem Thunder as a resounding success as a test of the Wedgetail's operational performance.

Binskin's remarks, made at the Dubai air show in November, contrasted sharply with earlier, more measured statements from Australia's military and political leadership.

As late as April 2009, Australian military officials acknowledged the programme still faced major issues. Testifying before the joint standing committee on foreign affairs, defence and trade, Warren King, general manager for programmes for Australia's Defence Material Organisation, confirmed problems remained.

"There is no doubt about the fact that the programme remains challenged," said King, according to a transcript of the hearing posted online by the Australian parliament.

King described two fundamental areas that were still "challenged", including "the radar performance in particular modes, which is important to us, and the electronic surveillance measure system".

The issues with the radar appear to have attracted the most concern and caused the DMO to last year commission a third-party opinion from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Lincoln Laboratory, which specialises in radar technology. Tellingly, Australian officials wanted MIT's scientists to study whether the Wedgetail radar technology could be improved to meet or surpass the original requirement.

"If [the radar] does not work to full specification at the moment will it over time grow into being everything we expected?" asked King, describing the DMO's brief for the Lincoln study.

According to Boeing and Australian programme officials, the Lincoln report briefed privately in June confirms that the radar performance of the MESA radar can meet the Wedgetail programme's needs.

"Our friends at the DMO were somewhat concerned about the system's growth capability," said Boeing's Parasida at the Paris air show. "It was great to see the MIT lab assessment say 'yes, it really does have that fundamental architecture, [which] is sound and the system does have growth capability," Parasida said.

Australian government officials also agree that the Wedgetail technology is fundamentally sound.

RAAF Air Marshal Mark Binskin, addressing the Defense International Air Chiefs conference in Dubai in November, described Wedgetail as a dramatic improvement for maritime and coastal surveillance. However, Binksin also said after his briefing that Australia would not receive a fully operational Wedgetail until late 2010.

Moreover, Australian government officials have made it clear that the aircraft's surveillance systems would not be fully capable of contractually required performance levels.

In his parliamentary testimony last April, King hinted at the key technical issues facing the programme's engineers.

"I should say that there are many other features of the aircraft that are all working or close to working - the link systems, the [identification friendly or foe] and the radar in non-pulse Doppler mode," said King.

Perhaps significantly, King's description omitted the radar in pulse-Doppler mode from the list of features that are close to meeting Australia's requirements. Pulse-Doppler radar is used to distinguish targets moving amid background clutter.

This issue was clarified in the same hearing by the parliamentary committee. Air Vice Marshal Colin Thorne said the fundamental problem with the Wedgetail radar related to such a problem. "It is a ground clutter issue," said Thorne. "Radar like this looks down on the ground and everything that is on the ground and is a legitimate target for a radar like that.

"It comes down to the software to be able to sort real targets or air targets above the ground from the ground behind it," Thorne continued. "That is fundamentally the issue with the radar."

RANGE CONCERN

Another lingering concern has been focused on the Wedgetail radar's range, which Boeing advertises as greater than 610km (330nm) for targets at 10,000ft and as greater than 390km for targets at 500ft.

"The key issue for us is getting the detection range and being able to confirm that across the operations of the radar, so that is a significant issue," Air Vice Marshal Chris Deeble told the same parliamentary committee in 2008.

Australian officials believe the root of the problems is not a fundamental flaw in Northrop's technical approach. In the early phases of the Wedgetail contract competition, the RAAF performed due diligence at the radar development site near Baltimore, Maryland.

In his testimony last April, Thorne recalled that the radar performed as expected in the ground environment.

"One of the issues that you do have with that kind of system with an airborne radar, particularly one of that size, is that until you marry the radar to the aircraft, which is naturally late in the development cycle, you cannot retire all that risk elements," Thorne said.

"What has happened is that as we have moved into that development and finally to the stage where we can marry a radar to an aircraft and get it airborne it has exposed some of the issues," he said.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Jan 2010 03:15

I simply posted that article and my intention was not to make it look like the Wedgetail is something worth being inducted for the IAF. Considering how many huge engineering and integration challenges were looming large over this project for several years, the very fact that its come close to achieving operational status at the end of 2010 means a lot for Boeing and that article seems to reflect that joy even though they paid heavy penalties for delays.

Thankfully, we didn't get involved in this program because India-US ties weren't that great at the time when the AWACS options were being explored by the IAF, otherwise this aircraft would surely have been a contestant for the original AWACS order itself. And if chosen, we'd probably have seen an operational Wedgetail only in 2010-11 or later and even then not fully ready since the launch customer, the RAAF has only just recieved one. I've seen Turkish and RAAF Wedgetails on a few occasions, so even after they were built, the systems integration and performance were the really big bugbears on this program which prevented induction. The Phalcon, also an ESA radar, at least was mature and didn't have any of the delays associated with major airframe-radar integration issues. the IAF should simply go in for a follow-on order for 9 more Phalcons as recently reported instead of diversifying further and adding another completely new type to the existing zoo. The only benefit I can see is the lower operating cost of the civilian 737-700 derived Wedgetail airframe compared to a military Il-76 even with PS-90A engines.

But, I'm also quite sure that civilian operating costs and range of flight figures that one might be tempted to use to arrive at a comparison may not be directly comparable with the Wedgetail. I recently found out that just a SATCOM antenna on a 747 added close to 1200 lbs equivalent of drag! Of course whats medium on a 747 is positively gigantic on a 737, but still..Check out the Wedgetail and you'll see that its bristling with antennas, its got this huge radar beam on top of Section 46 and then the two new additional dorsal control surfaces to give better longitudinal control since the radar spoils airflow near the rudder..that is one heck of a drag compromised 737-700, so it must have a penalty in range to pay even if its payload may be lower than a fully-loaded civilian 737-700.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 Jan 2010 09:04

An even more promising market for the 737 AEW&C is shaping up in India, which has already agreed to purchase the 737-based Boeing P-8I. India is expected to release a request for proposals this year, with the navy and air force queuing for Wedgetail-like capability.

For heavens sake, hope that IAF doesnt ditch the Phalcon after 3-6 airframes and go in for 737 based wedgetails. This will turns even the AWACs fleet into a circus with EMB-145, IL-76, B-737s in it ( making it similar to the worldwide representation given to the fighter fleet)

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 29 Jan 2010 05:38

Scare at Delhi airport after plane goes off radar

Absence of communication between a Kingfisher Airlines flight carrying 50 people from Amritsar to Delhi and the Air Traffic Control (ATC) in New Delhi for about five to seven minutes led to a 'hijak' alert at the Indira Gandhi International Airport on Thursday evening.

The ATC sources said that turbo-propped ATR aircraft, during its 40-minute flight, was not in communication with the ATC for about seven minutes, triggering the alert issued by Indian Air Force (IAF) communication wing.

Security personnel at the airport were in a tizzy for a while following the alert, they said adding the picture became clear soon after the contact resumed between the plane and the ATC.

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Jan 2010 12:06

X Posted:

Craig Alpert wrote:Govt scrambles to plug gaps in coastal security

{......... Snipped} ICG is also going in for a major upgrade of its air wing, with 42 new aircraft already sanctioned by the government. Apart from 12 Dorniers and 30 helicopters, the force is also going to induct six medium-range maritime surveillance aircraft, for which Beriev-200 and Bombardier-Q400 have been shortlisted for trials in a Rs 1,100-crore project.{Snipped ..........}

I must say I am surprised not to see the ATR 42 but instead the Bombadier Dash 8 Q400 and the Beriev 200 for the Indian Coast Guards medium-range maritime surveillance aircraft contest. I was expecting that the ATR 42 would be the front runner given the intended tie up between HAL and ATR.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jan 2010 23:09

Germany miffed with India ahead of President Kohler's visit

On the eve of German President Horst Kohler's India [ Images ] visit, which begins on February 1, Germany [ Images ] has expressed deep disappointment over rejection by India of the contract for the purchase of Airbus A-330 MRTT (multi-role tanker transport) aircraft.

According to German Ambassador to India Thomas Matussek, the contract for Airbus A-330 MRTT aircraft, which was initially approved by the Indian Air force, was rejected for what he alleged 'political reasons'.

Addressing the media in New Delhi [ Images ], Matussek said that the cancellation of tender for the multi-role tanker aircraft for the Indian Air Force for which European consortium EADS was a contender came as a "rude surprise".

"It is little bit of a nasty surprise for us and very disappointing that this choice of Indian Air force, which works on the principle of the best value for money, was rejected at political level," Matussek said.

"This rejection was not even explained to us," he added.

Matussek further criticised those involved in the selection, and said: "It appears quality, performance, state of technology and reliability were not exactly the criteria, but selection was only on label price stance."

Germany is also ready to alter its end-user agreement and exempt India from the monitoring and on location inspection for future deals.

As of now, no agreements or Memorandums of Understanding will be signed during the seven-day visit of the German President even though number of agreements between India and Germany are awaiting nod from the Indian side.

It seems that the A-330 plan is completely nixed. Important Q is : Has the Il-78 atleast been sounded out for further orders given that the A-330 was rejected in favur of Il-78?

Or has this reached the artillery saga stage where contenders are only rejected but none selected and IAF will be cursed to live with the existing 6 refuellers for years to come?

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 29 Jan 2010 23:12

Expect another govt-govt contract with the US on this in the future. The US is quite good at muscling out competitors. They did it with the copetor deal. Dont be surprised if the copter deal goes to the US also.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Jan 2010 04:26

sum wrote:It seems that the A-330 plan is completely nixed. Important Q is : Has the Il-78 atleast been sounded out for further orders given that the A-330 was rejected in favur of Il-78?

Or has this reached the artillery saga stage where contenders are only rejected but none selected and IAF will be cursed to live with the existing 6 refuellers for years to come?

I think what the German minister meant by "political considerations" is the fact that the new RFI was sent to Boeing as well. They weren't part of the original tender, and consequently, based on performance criteria, ease of maintenance and range, the IAF chose the A-330 MRTT. Now, Boeing has a foot in the door, although in a face-off the B-767 based tanker is not really better than the A-330 MRTT. You can be pretty sure that in the new tender as well, it will be the A-330 MRTT and B-767/B-777 refueller that will primarily be in contention

Its taking on a similar hue to the earlier LUH contract that got cancelled, followed by re-tendering and then the Attack helicopter contract that was re-tendered because Boeing and Bell didn't participate citing inadequate time given to respond to the tender. Such blatant cancellations and re-tendering just to ensure that US companies participate is what is frustrating the Europeans no end. And I can understand that, especially in cases where their equipment is as good as or better than what the US offers. Unfortunately, it seems like the MMS sarkar doesn't know how to resist any pressure that the US or its Special interest groups exert.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Jan 2010 04:32

arun wrote:I was expecting that the ATR 42 would be the front runner given the intended tie up between HAL and ATR.

The tie up went bust. They both discovered that there wasn't enough demand in India for the ATR-42 or 72 to justify setting up a new assembly line at HAL. Actually HAL could simply build the Do-228 Next-Generation itself for this Coast-Guard requirement..HAL are after all the prime contractor for the Swiss firm RUAG that markets the Do-228 NG. The fuselage, wings, empennage, etc. are all built at HAL for the existing Do-228 NG and its current orders while RUAG does the interior work.

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Jan 2010 14:17

I think what the German minister meant by "political considerations" is the fact that the new RFI was sent to Boeing as well. They weren't part of the original tender, and consequently, based on performance criteria, ease of maintenance and range, the IAF chose the A-330 MRTT. Now, Boeing has a foot in the door, although in a face-off the B-767 based tanker is not really better than the A-330 MRTT. You can be pretty sure that in the new tender as well, it will be the A-330 MRTT and B-767/B-777 refueller that will primarily be in contention

Damn, so the new refuellers are a few years away?

What stops the winner of the next "trials" from being rejected by MoF on cost grounds? The MoF will again say Il-78 is too cheap and will end up bringing us back to square one.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 30 Jan 2010 18:29

Kartik wrote: I think what the German minister meant by "political considerations" is the fact that the new RFI was sent to Boeing as well. They weren't part of the original tender, and consequently, based on performance criteria, ease of maintenance and range, the IAF chose the A-330 MRTT. Now, Boeing has a foot in the door, although in a face-off the B-767 based tanker is not really better than the A-330 MRTT. You can be pretty sure that in the new tender as well, it will be the A-330 MRTT and B-767/B-777 refueller that will primarily be in contention

Its taking on a similar hue to the earlier LUH contract that got cancelled, followed by re-tendering and then the Attack helicopter contract that was re-tendered because Boeing and Bell didn't participate citing inadequate time given to respond to the tender. Such blatant cancellations and re-tendering just to ensure that US companies participate is what is frustrating the Europeans no end. And I can understand that, especially in cases where their equipment is as good as or better than what the US offers. Unfortunately, it seems like the MMS sarkar doesn't know how to resist any pressure that the US or its Special interest groups exert.

But in most equipment we want to purchase now, they surely beat the american competition by a good margin, not just technically, but politically also. And if i guess right, along with Sum sir, the B777 will not be cleared by the MoF exchequer as it will still be costlier than the Midas, since the reason cited for the rejection of the MRTT was cost and lack of commonality with the current fleet...

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 30 Jan 2010 20:06

Guys check this out. First looks :

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/17874356

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 31 Jan 2010 00:31

HAL's delayed light combat helicopter to fly in February

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 31 Jan 2010 03:22

IAF plans to acquire 75 basic trainer aircraft

Looking to acquire 75 basic trainer aircraft for the Indian Air Force (IAF), the Defence Ministry has issued a request for proposal (RFP) to a dozen global aircraft manufacturers.

The manufacturers including such global names as Embraer (aircraft name in brackets) (Tucano), Pilatus (PC-7 or PC-/9), Raytheon (T-6 Texan), Finmeccanica (M-311), Grob Aircraft Company (G-120TP), EADS PZL (PZL-130-TC-11 Orik) and Korea Aerospace Industries (KT-1) are required to submit their proposals by March 17.

Officials in the Ministry told The Hindu that a pre-bidders conference would be held on February 2 during which clarifications if any would be entertained. The IAF would technically evaluate the aircraft once the proposals were received.

...
...

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Jan 2010 14:58

Looking to acquire 75 basic trainer aircraft for the Indian Air Force (IAF), the Defence Ministry has issued a request for proposal (RFP) to a dozen global aircraft manufacturers.

The manufacturers including such global names as Embraer (aircraft name in brackets) (Tucano), Pilatus (PC-7 or PC-/9), Raytheon (T-6 Texan), Finmeccanica (M-311), Grob Aircraft Company (G-120TP), EADS PZL (PZL-130-TC-11 Orik) and Korea Aerospace Industries (KT-1) are required to submit their proposals by March 17.

If the AJT took 20+ years to sign, wonder how long the BJT will take?

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 31 Jan 2010 15:28

sum wrote:
An even more promising market for the 737 AEW&C is shaping up in India, which has already agreed to purchase the 737-based Boeing P-8I. India is expected to release a request for proposals this year, with the navy and air force queuing for Wedgetail-like capability.
For heavens sake, hope that IAF doesnt ditch the Phalcon after 3-6 airframes and go in for 737 based wedgetails. This will turns even the AWACs fleet into a circus with EMB-145, IL-76, B-737s in it ( making it similar to the worldwide representation given to the fighter fleet)

How about a Israeli AWACS on a commercial B 737- 800, a la P 8I ? Bets of both the worlds !

K

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 01 Feb 2010 02:56

IAF Pokhran blitz to showcase its firepower

Dubbed `Vayu-Shakti', the high-intensity blitzkrieg will culminate in a massive firepower demonstration at the Pokhran range in Thar desert on February 24, with the country's top leadership, military brass and foreign military observers in attendance.

IAF has kept around 70 top-notch fighters like Sukhoi-30MKIs, Mirage-2000s, Jaguars, MiG-29s, MiG-27s and MiG-21 `Bisons' from several airbases on standby for Vayu-Shakti. Moreover, IAF will also be deploying Mi-35 attack and Mi-17 medium-lift helicopters, IL-76 heavy-lift and AN-32 medium-lift cargo aircraft for the exercise.

....
IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik, has outlined a three-pronged strategy for his force. One, `to see first and see the farthest', with AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) and satellites.

Two, `to reach first and the farthest', with mid-air refuellers to enhance the radius of operations of its fighters. And three, `to hit hard and accurately', with advanced missiles and PGMs (precision guided munitions).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2010 08:58

this tender indicates we do not have the expertise to design and finish the AESA radar
inhouse since they are basically asking the proposed partner to do everything significant.

about the only hope is that Elta will respond. sher khan is least interested in revealing
such techs, the euros are struggling to build their own and tikhomirov is busy with
irbis-e and pakfa designs.

the israelis are the only ones who have something in prototype form and no real
customer at this point. lets hope some critical nuts and bolts are not sourced from
sher khan and hence open to games.

--livefist.blogspot.com--

Monday, February 01, 2010
EXCLUSIVE: AESA Programme For Tejas Scans For Development Partner
India's homegrown AESA radar programme appears to be gathering pace. The Bangalore-based Electronics & Radar Development Establishment (LRDE), a laboratory under the DRDO, has invited bids from global radar houses to be the development partner (DP) for India's in-house active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for the LCA Tejas programme. In a tender issued on December 4 last year, LRDE wants the partnership to be initiated with the supply of an Active Array Antenna Unit (AAAU) supplied by the development partner chosen.

According to the bid invitation, India wants the development partner to be responsible for "detailed design, development and realisation" of (a) antenna panel constisting of main antenna, guard antenna and sidelobe cancellation antenna, (b) transmit/receive modules/groups, (c) RF distribution network consisting of RF manifold/combiners, RF interface, (d) antenna/beam control chain consisting of T/R control and T/R group control, and (e) array calibration/BITE among other areas. The final requirement in the comprehensive list of ten requirements from the development partner is listed as "AAAU Integration on Tejas A/c", confirming that the radar is indeed for a future tranche of the Tejas, or possibly, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

"DP (development partner) must have experience in design, development, integration, testing and flightevaluation of AESA Radar systems for fighter class of aircraft. DP must ensure that the items/components used for the development of AAAU are not protected by International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR). DP must have delivered AESA class of operational systems for fighter class of aircraft meeting delivery schedules of the international customers," the bid invitation states.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2010 08:59

above being x-band fighter aesa, I do hope the L-band AEW aesa (allegedly simpler due to bigger form factor etc) is coming along well and will enter on schedule.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Feb 2010 09:20

Singha wrote:this tender indicates we do not have the expertise to design and finish the AESA radar
inhouse since they are basically asking the proposed partner to do everything significant.
.....

Interesting. Do these fellows think anyone besides Elta is going to respond? If not, then why not just approach Elta directly instead of starting with the slow tendering process. Unless they already approached Elta and came back empty handed.

Its not inconceivable for Elta to demand that India either buys the 2052 directly or builds its own AESA. AESA radar tech is hot property today and even Elta might not be willing to part with it.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 01 Feb 2010 19:40

LCA Programme To Get Status Check By Defence Minister

..........And probably visit the HAL heli facility for the first flight of LCH.

Jai Ho!

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 01 Feb 2010 21:25

This is really depressing to know. I mean they are asking DP to do almost everything. What is LRDE going to do ??

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/200 ... adars.html

According to the above link, during IRSI in December 2009, LRDE director clearly said that they had made significant progress in AESA radars & they would be fitted in LCA Mk2 & now this RFP drama.

They should have kept quiet before issuing any deadlines because if we go by the RFP then major work will only be done after the partner is selected. So until somebody is selected we are stuck and going by the process involving RFP's in India, one can safely assume that it's not going to happen anytime soon.

I hope our S Band AESA for AEW&CS is going good....

Nirmal · Post by **Nirmal** » 01 Feb 2010 22:12

KrishG wrote:LCA Programme To Get Status Check By Defence Minister

..........And probably visit the HAL heli facility for the first flight of LCH. Jai Ho!

sorry, but the URL link does not seem to be working. Any ideas?

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 01 Feb 2010 22:51

sorry, but the URL link does not seem to be working. Any ideas?

Here is the new one :

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/lc ... _8544.html

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 01 Feb 2010 23:47

KrishG wrote:LCA Programme To Get Status Check By Defence Minister

..........And probably visit the HAL heli facility for the first flight of LCH. Jai Ho!

Let's hope so... its already been delayed by 3 months now.. since the first announcement at the last year's ending...

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Feb 2010 00:49

Singha wrote: this tender indicates we do not have the expertise to design and finish the AESA radar inhouse since they are basically asking the proposed partner to do everything significant.

about the only hope is that Elta will respond. sher khan is least interested in revealing such techs, the euros are struggling to build their own and tikhomirov is busy with irbis-e and pakfa designs.

the israelis are the only ones who have something in prototype form and no real customer at this point. lets hope some critical nuts and bolts are not sourced from sher khan and hence open to games.

no, actually it doesn't indicate anything of that sort. Its exactly the same route that Sweden adopted for its NORA-III radar, where the T/R modules were sourced from Raytheon and the backend was a development of the existing PS-05A radar. Rather than spending years developing, testing and productionising the miniaturised airborne FCR sized T/R modules, a very pragmatic approach has been taken. they haven't asked for the development partner to come up with the central receiver, exciter, data and signal processing units, power amplification systems, etc, which it seems like will all be indigenous.

Its exactly the attitude that plagues India. If DRDO labs seek help, people on defence forums make it out like they're supposed to be fools who don't know anything.

If they say we'll do it on our own, give us funding and time (both of which are required to develop such cutting edge technology when you don't have the kind of basic technology infrastructure or spending on R&D that the West has in heaps), then they're laggards who don't work, have poor work ethic, are always delayed, etc. If they'd followed this approach for the MMR earlier itself, we'd have seen it ready a while ago. Instead they were lulled into believing that they could do it within a few years on their own and ended up still requiring foreign assistance.

Anyway, Israelis may not fulfill the last clause mentioned in the RFI- that the development partner should have supplied AESA airborne FCR for fighters. the Elta 2052 AFAIK has not been sold to anyone as yet, notwithstanding that one SIPRI report that claimed some sets were exported, or maybe they exported it to China as part of a technology transfer agreement ? It may not be a coincidence that the J-10B is now claimed to have AESA radar and the Chinese have not developed anything substantial without first getting their hands on Russian or Western technology and reverse engineering it during the first cut. Israeli manufacturer IAI in a recent Flight International article claimed that they don't disclose their customer's name unless the customer is ok with it. If the customer is China, it obviously will never want that disclosed, which may explain why the SIPRI report never mentioned a customer. India has nothing to hide and would not ask Elta to keep such a deal under wraps. Another question- just how good is the Elta 2052 ? Its been under development for a while, Israelis have a good MSA Elta 2032, so software and backend hardware won't be an issue, but no customer as yet.

American companies are almost surely ruled out since the RFI clearly states that ITAR laws should not be applied on technology that will be shared by the development partner. Raytheon and NG both would need a lot of ITAR licences and permissions before the US Govt. would allow such a partnership to develop and even then I'm sure they won't get them. And if we're foolish enough to let them win on L1 basis, it'll take months or years for the US firms to get the licences and then surely get rejected (as Boeing and LM did), which will waste precious time.

Russian Phazatron is an outside contender, and I believe that because in the LCA program, Russian help has been taken for very few items.

Thales is one of the best bets, along with Selex Galileo. Thales makes its own T/R modules, has a working RBE-2 AESA on Rafale B-001, and has a long history of working with India and if the price is right, they may not be averse to tech transfer. And right now, apart from the Rafale, they have no existing customer for the AESA RBE-2.

However, my prediction is that Selex Galileo is the likeliest to win the tender. They are not affected by ITAR laws, and have been selected for the Gripen NG, so their capability is demonstrated as is their flexibility, something that Thales disappointed with, after Dassault bought a large percentage of shares in Thales. Selex stands to gain a lot from sales of this new AESA radar for the LCA Mk2 and (likely) a development of it for the AMCA. From their point of view, it will also make the case stronger for a European win for the MRCA, as both the Gripen NG (already with Raven ES-05A) and Typhoon (likely to go with Selex AESA solution) will have a Selex AESA radar and thats hundreds of millions of $ for the radar alone.

Nirmal · Post by **Nirmal** » 02 Feb 2010 02:17

Kartik wrote:
Singha wrote: this tender indicates we do not have the expertise to design and finish the AESA radar inhouse since they are basically asking the proposed partner to do everything significant.

about the only hope is that Elta will respond. sher khan is least interested in revealing such techs, the euros are struggling to build their own and tikhomirov is busy with irbis-e and pakfa designs.

the israelis are the only ones who have something in prototype form and no real customer at this point. lets hope some critical nuts and bolts are not sourced from sher khan and hence open to games.
no, actually it doesn't indicate anything of that sort. Its exactly the same route that Sweden adopted for its NORA-III radar, where the T/R modules were sourced from Raytheon and the backend was a development of the existing PS-05A radar. Rather than spending years developing, testing and productionising the miniaturised airborne FCR sized T/R modules, a very pragmatic approach has been taken. they haven't asked for the development partner to come up with the central receiver, exciter, data and signal processing units, power amplification systems, etc, which it seems like will all be indigenous.

Its exactly the attitude that plagues India. If DRDO labs seek help, people on defence forums make it out like they're supposed to be fools who don't know anything.

If they say we'll do it on our own, give us funding and time (both of which are required to develop such cutting edge technology when you don't have the kind of basic technology infrastructure or spending on R&D that the West has in heaps), then they're laggards who don't work, have poor work ethic, are always delayed, etc. If they'd followed this approach for the MMR earlier itself, we'd have seen it ready a while ago. Instead they were lulled into believing that they could do it within a few years on their own and ended up still requiring foreign assistance.

Anyway, Israelis may not fulfill the last clause mentioned in the RFI- that the development partner should have supplied AESA airborne FCR for fighters. the Elta 2052 AFAIK has not been sold to anyone as yet, notwithstanding that one SIPRI report that claimed some sets were exported, or maybe they exported it to China as part of a technology transfer agreement ? It may not be a coincidence that the J-10B is now claimed to have AESA radar and the Chinese have not developed anything substantial without first getting their hands on Russian or Western technology and reverse engineering it during the first cut. Israeli manufacturer IAI in a recent Flight International article claimed that they don't disclose their customer's name unless the customer is ok with it. If the customer is China, it obviously will never want that disclosed, which may explain why the SIPRI report never mentioned a customer. India has nothing to hide and would not ask Elta to keep such a deal under wraps. Another question- just how good is the Elta 2052 ? Its been under development for a while, Israelis have a good MSA Elta 2032, so software and backend hardware won't be an issue, but no customer as yet.

American companies are almost surely ruled out since the RFI clearly states that ITAR laws should not be applied on technology that will be shared by the development partner. Raytheon and NG both would need a lot of ITAR licences and permissions before the US Govt. would allow such a partnership to develop and even then I'm sure they won't get them. And if we're foolish enough to let them win on L1 basis, it'll take months or years for the US firms to get the licences and then surely get rejected (as Boeing and LM did), which will waste precious time.

Russian Phazatron is an outside contender, and I believe that because in the LCA program, Russian help has been taken for very few items.

Thales is one of the best bets, along with Selex Galileo. Thales makes its own T/R modules, has a working RBE-2 AESA on Rafale B-001, and has a long history of working with India and if the price is right, they may not be averse to tech transfer. And right now, apart from the Rafale, they have no existing customer for the AESA RBE-2.

However, my prediction is that Selex Galileo is the likeliest to win the tender. They are not affected by ITAR laws, and have been selected for the Gripen NG, so their capability is demonstrated as is their flexibility, something that Thales disappointed with, after Dassault bought a large percentage of shares in Thales. Selex stands to gain a lot from sales of this new AESA radar for the LCA Mk2 and (likely) a development of it for the AMCA. From their point of view, it will also make the case stronger for a European win for the MRCA, as both the Gripen NG (already with Raven ES-05A) and Typhoon (likely to go with Selex AESA solution) will have a Selex AESA radar and thats hundreds of millions of $ for the radar alone.

Recently I met my namesake (Air Marshal Nirmal SURI (Rtd.) and we had a very long chat being very close friends. He provided so much of insight on India Airforce matters that it was certainly an eye opener; but unfortunately it cannot be shared on the public forum/domain due to security (Classified info.) implications.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2010 02:22

Nirmal wrote: Recently I met my namesake (Air Marshal Nirmal SURI (Rtd.) and we had a very long chat being very close friends. He provided so much of insight on India Airforce matters that it was certainly an eye opener; but unfortunately it cannot be shared on the public forum/domain due to security (Classified info.) implications.

er, what exactly is served by this apart from saying that "I know more than others"? And you quoted an entire big post and your reply doesn't provide any info.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 02 Feb 2010 02:49

Nirmal wrote:
Kartik wrote: snip
Recently I met my namesake (Air Marshal Nirmal SURI (Rtd.) and we had a very long chat being very close friends. He provided so much of insight on India Airforce matters that it was certainly an eye opener; but unfortunately it cannot be shared on the public forum/domain due to security (Classified info.) implications.

So, you have classified info? Good for you.

And congratulations on writing an utterly useless post.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Feb 2010 03:09

Nirmal What value is added by your post? At best you can say there are gaps. However implying you know classified info from a particular person puts that person in soup. So edit your post.

Bheem · Post by **Bheem** » 02 Feb 2010 09:32

raping Indian tax-fool-payer

portion in your post is offensive. I hope you will not be repeating such colorful language.
-Archan.

OT post deleted.
Rahul.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2010 09:42

since the pakfa, mrca, tejas and mki-mlu will take care of a2a for a long time, the mca being targeted as a mig27/jaguar/bison replacement for strike duty should go the whole hog on vLO, "smaller rcs than a needle tip" fanboi psyops.

make something truly scary like a manned batwing ucav design with dorsal shrouded air intakes and yf23 style exhausts invisible from below. IR
signature reduction is a big plus for strike planes.

impart it
speed and height via big diamond wings, low loading and powerful ej200-2
engines. stuff it with 6 sudarshan chakras in ventral bay and 4 aams in
cft style side bays.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Feb 2010 11:33

Errr..Antony came and went. Did anyone notice any chopper flying?

SagarP · Post by **SagarP** » 02 Feb 2010 14:44

sum wrote:Errr..Antony came and went. Did anyone notice any chopper flying?

Saar, may be a classic case of sciophobic groundhog, aye....It came out, saw its own shadow and went inside again. Does it mean that the "winter" will continue for six more weeks?

Although I do hope to eat crow on this...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2010 15:07

no chopper was observed flying over the forest reservation behind HAL.
my workdesk @ home has a panoramic view of this area and I have been
at my desk all day.

it could have taken off and flown near c.v.raman nagar without any chance
of knowing from kmangala side though.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Feb 2010 17:09

X Posted.

Tuesday 2 February 2010

India to test-fly AWACS in 2012

Bangalore, Feb 2 (PTI)

The indigenous Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) System integrated onboard the Brazilian jet aircraft EMB145 as per IAF requirement would be flight tested in 2012, a key official involved in the project said.

The AEW&C system (also called AWACS - Airborne Warning and Control System) is being developed by the Bangalore-based Centre or Airborne Systems (CABS), a lab under the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for the IAF.

Under a deal signed between India and Brazil in 2008, Embraer aircraft manufacturer would modify its EMB145 to carry Active Array Antenna Unit by India on the aircraft's fuselage. Three modified EMB-145 aircraft would be developed under the agreement.

"AEW&C's flying platform is the modified EMB145, which will take to skies later this year. It is scheduled to be delivered to us in Aug 2011," CABS Director S Christopher said here on Tuesday. ...............................

Christopher said: "...our mission systems will be ready by this year. It will be tested in this rig in 2011, followed by flight testing in 2012". ........................

PTI via Deccan Herald

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 02 Feb 2010 17:41

Any updates on LCH ? it was supposed to fly today....(SOURCE: WIKI)

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Feb 2010 18:02

SivaVijay wrote:Any updates on LCH ? it was supposed to fly today....(SOURCE: WIKI)

Maybe later this month.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Feb 2010 22:02

Under a deal signed between India and Brazil in 2008, Embraer aircraft manufacturer would modify its EMB145 to carry Active Array Antenna Unit by India on the aircraft's fuselage. Three modified EMB-145 aircraft would be developed under the agreement.

Wasnt the original date supposed to be 2010?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 03 Feb 2010 08:47

IAF to display firepower in dark - Ajay Banerjee

...
It will not be a “routine” exercise, sources said, while adding it was aimed at showcasing the attack power of the IAF in hitting specified targets on the ground during night time.

To have a global impact of India’s prowess, the Ministry of Defence is arranging to provide for a feed for a TV audience. Using high-end cameras that can capture elements in the dead of the night, the visual feed will be made available to TV Channels. The exercise “Vayu Shakti” will be conducted in the night for the first time.

More than 90 aircraft will participate, including all variants of fighters in the IAF and the armed choppers.
...
...
The bombs and arsenal will hit the target as they would be guided by computer -fed coordinates of the location, explained an official.

A senior official said: “The display would be comparable to what is done by any global power or an aspiring power”.
...
...