Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2010

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 24 Jul 2010 07:22

Thanks for the jaziya but finding bin laden is not important

Clinton’s recent comments in Pakistan suggesting that the Pakistani government is hiding Osama (or at least knows about his presence) speak volumes about the lack of trust between the US and Pakistan. It also reveals that America is still fixated on a rather narrow approach to defeating the menace of terrorism. And it makes the Americans look either incompetent or petulant.

If the US government despite all its military might, superior intelligence resources and effective diplomacy is unable to get past the layers of secrecy that the Pakistani government supposedly shroud regarding Osama’s location then either the former is incompetent or the latter is far more creative and competent than it lets on.

So in the interest of world peace, Ms Clinton should stop insinuating that we know where Osama is. If she knows something then please come out with it and save us having to play this game of cat and mouse. We have more important matters to tend to than finding one man.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Jul 2010 07:41

'Pak using US funds for war on terror to bolster military might'

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 206960.cms

Since the coordinated terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 in the US, Pakistan has received at least $18 billion (approximately Rs 90,000 crore) under various US assistance and allowance programmes. At least one assessment by the Indian security establishment says the Pakistan army may have diverted as much as $14 billion for weapons purchases meant for a military conflict with India.

Shankas · Post by **Shankas** » 24 Jul 2010 08:21

Ironically, ‘Pakistan Government Bond 10 year’ yield has been around 12pc since August 2009, but concerned authorities do not seem to be bothered.

...
A question for the financial gurus

Suppose Indian Govt. and Indian investors buy a lot of Paki Bonds and in 10 years they default. What leverage will we have in that event?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 24 Jul 2010 08:28

Five killed; scores hurt in fresh Karachi violence

KARACHI: At least five persons were killed and six others injured in incidents of firing here in Gulistan-e-Johar locality while furious people set ablaze many buses and shops, Geo News reported Friday.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 24 Jul 2010 08:29

Policeman killed in Lahore attack

LAHORE: A policeman was killed while seven others sustained injures in two different terrorism incidents here on Saturday.

As per details, two police vans parked outside Luton Road Police Station were targeted in cracker bombs attack. A policeman was martyred in the incident while five other officials, including Station House Officer, were injured.

Soon after the incident, two motorcyclists opened fire outside Gulshan Ravi Police Station and hurled a hand cracker, injuring two police officials.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 24 Jul 2010 09:05

Shankas wrote:Suppose Indian Govt. and Indian investors buy a lot of Paki Bonds and in 10 years they default. What leverage will we have in that event?

To comment on this, one needn't be a guru. In fact, a guru may die of laughter.

Pak will default the day after Indian govt and Indian investors buy a lot of paki bonds. Forget 10 years. Without it they are a headache, but with their debt in our hands, they will have our heads. This is Pak's bestest dream come true and no Indian worth his/her salt will ever think of such a thing.

leverage = minus infinity;

Seriously, this is one heck of joke and deserves to be in Humor and BENIS thread.

Added later:

Thinking a bit, I have a different idea along this line. Actually, we need to do the reverse.

As a peace overture, Pak should provide India, access to Paki natural resources for 10 years and India will start making *deferred* payments 10 years. These payments can be guaranteed by the international community. If Pak violates the peace agreement, then India will stop making payments. That way they will have incentive to get their payments on time and we will have incentive to do business with pukes. All else remain same.

I am sure people with a few mg of gray matter will find it agreeable.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Jul 2010 09:10

Sandeep Unnithan,old friend of BR,has this excellent report from Pak writing in "India Today".The mag these days more resembles "Indian Advertising Today",but pieces from him and others from time to time makes it required reading.

In his report,Sandeep exposes-if it needed to be,the asinine attitude of many Pakis towards India,as they hunker down physically and mentally in their "fortress Pak",which is being assailed from all sides.Needless to say,without any evidence whatsoever,they blame the "US-Hindu-Zionist" axis for their woes.Reeling from terror attacks,crippling power and water shortages,their mismanagement of these two vital utilities is glossed over as the reason for their discomfort and yet again India is the bogeyman for their waterwoes.Sandeep reminds us that when he was a Brigadier,Gen.Bandicoot-the Musharat,wrote that water disputes would be the cause for another war between our two nations.

Despite their envy of India's economic success,where they want a share of the wealth without wanting to change tack from their cretinous policies and work hard for it,the military minds of Pak,led by Gen.Kill-any the vulture,who has just engineered his three yr. extension (and is a most dangerous man in my opinion,one who is stamping his authority on Pak in greater measure day-by-day),indulge in "triumphalism",as they perceive an opportunity in Afghanistan with the tide truning in their favour! The planned US withdrawal in the future and the tiredness of the US's allies-not to mention the cost of waging war however small the contribution may be,warms the hearts of the Paki top brass who smell the "meat" of Afghanistan and the trillions of mineral wealth as their for the future picking.Thus the Paki military wants to continue its hard line policies towards India.Is the Paki army interested in talking to India,asks Ashley Tellis and he says that "in my opinion it is not".

That sums up precisely what we've been saying for many moons here on BR.The Paki military establishment which has the country by the essentials,cares a damn about peace with India.All that it wants is for the US to keep India quiet and off its back,while it goes about its diabolic deeds and keeps on putting pressure upon the US to make India compromise on Kashmir,like a blackmailer.Our spineless politicos in charge ,acquiesce weakly to the US's diktat,acting as if they were in a opium innduced trance,unable to see the chicanery emanating from Pak,which is completely aimed at destabilising India and wrenching from us the Valley that it lusts after,across the table in one-sided "negotitations", since it was soundly beaten time and time again on the battlefield.

Sandeep's report however has some good news for us too as it shows that the Paki state is teetering on the abysss,falling apart in every way internally.The various factions of Islam are at each others' throats,blowing up shrines with regularity,the civilian and miliatry elite are at odds with each other,the country's infrastructure is collapsing,and the Paki army who "fear no one",are fully engaged with their own rebels of the more extreme Islamist variety.In such a scenario,what India should do is to ignore Pak,refrain from any contact wiht that pestilential virus afflicted entity and hunker down,batten all hatches,make the border tighter than an insect's sphincter,increase the warfighting numbers of the services,modernise and strengthen the armed forces strike capability significantly enough to strike decisively and swiftly when the day of battle arrives,which it will because as Pak's track record has always shown,when the chips are down in Pak,the poppy induced brains of their martial artists send them into a frenzy against India and on the course of jihad.This time their cutting edge of stormtroopers are the diabolic terrorists responsible for 26/11 and countless other outrages, whom the Paki army describes as their strategic assets" .With Gen.Kill-any the vulture firmly in the saddle for another three years,it gives him plenty of time to plan further misadventures that the military madmen of Pak are infamous for both by his proxies in terror and from his regular forces.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 24 Jul 2010 09:29

Not 1 year, not 2 years but 3 years.

IMO the significance of 3 year extension, as someone mentioned earlier or I read somewhere, is that he will last longer than democratic govt. So, if for any reason (read deliberate) there is chaotic election process /outcome (how long Sharif the Kalif will remain in opp) then it will be convenient for the Army to "takeover" and manage the show.

Expect Kiyanahi to stay for longer unless one of his own ditches him.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2010 09:49

Shankas wrote:
Suppose Indian Govt. and Indian investors buy a lot of Paki Bonds and in 10 years they default. What leverage will we have in that event?

I have a better idea. I have a white residential building for sale in Washington DC. It is currently temporarily occupied by a senior US government functionary - but you can have it any time you like. Going cheap. As a sweetener I can throw in a unique five-sided office building complex for free in the same town.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jul 2010 09:58

At least 16 people killed, several injured in US drone strikes in South Waziristan
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... Waziristan

At least 16 people were killed and many others injured in a Saturday morning US drone strike in South Waziristan, a private TV reported.U.S. missiles hit a suspected militant hide-out killing 16 insurgents in a Pakistani tribal region along the Afghan border before dawn Saturday, intelligence officials said.Six missiles struck a compound in the Nazai Narai area of South Waziristan.The hide-out was known to be frequented by foreign fighters who were among the dead, two intelligence officials said.The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to go on the record, said agents were trying to get more details about the identities and nationalities

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Jul 2010 11:13

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -370-sk-04

The peace chimera
By Cyril Almeida
Friday, 23 Jul, 2010

The more charitable explanation is that the army is merely calibrating Pakistan’s policy towards India on the basis of Indian intransigence towards Pakistan. From this perspective, the Indian single-point agenda of Mumbai is just subterfuge for not talking about ‘core’ issues, like Kashmir and water, and overlooks the destabilising investments India is making in its conventional war machinery.

The moderate hawkish line is that while India is not willing to talk to Pakistan for whatever reasons internal to it, Pakistan should focus on improving its internal security situation and stabilising the economy: the Indian neighbour isn’t going anywhere, when they are ready to talk, we’ll talk; but we aren’t going to beg them to talk, we’ll just focus on putting our own house in order in the meantime.

In fairness, if that were the real reason for the stiff line the army appears to be taking towards India, it would be justified.

But there is a less charitable explanation that cannot be ignored: that the army may be up to its old tricks again and isn’t really interested in peace. There is, observers say, some ‘proof’ of this.

It took Pakistan weeks to admit what everyone knew, that Ajmal Kasab was a Pakistani. Why? Here was a possibility to come forward and show Pakistan’s clean hands. Instead the army clung to its standard approach: never give the enemy an inch.

Worse, why has movement on the Mumbai front been so slow? Sure, it took India more than a year to convict Kasab even though the proof was overwhelming and direct. Still, it is hard to shake the feeling that Pakistan has done less than the bare minimum to bring any kind of closure on the Mumbai attacks.

Enter the fiendish complexity. When articulated it can come across as terribly naïve and simplistic: that the Pakistan Army is institutionally averse to peace with India because it would undermine its power inside Pakistan.

Yet, some of Pakistan’s most articulate, intelligent and informed members of its foreign policy elite with decades of experience under their belts often make precisely this argument, in private and with some grimness.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2010 14:08

chetak wrote:http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -370-sk-04

Check the nuanced criticism of the Packee army. In Paquistan if you criticise the army they will squeeze your testimonials into pulp.

Easier to blame Pillai and be done with it.

Pillai is not in the testimonial squeezing business.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2010 14:57

Let's demilitarize Siachen: Zardari

India and Pakistan should demilitarise the Siachen glacier as the troop deployment on the snowy heights has become a burden on the exchequers of the two countries, President Asif Ali Zardari has said.

The time has come to demilitarise the Siachen glacier because of the high cost of the troop deployments, Zardari told the media last night at the chief minister's house in the southern city of Karachi.

He claimed that the Indian army's expenditure on troops deployed on Siachen was more than that of Pakistan. Despite this, Pakistan had suggested to India that both countries should withdraw their forces from the region, he said. {Why is the wolf concerned about the goat getting drenched in the rains ? Besides, how does Pakistan think that it is a drain for India ?}

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2010 15:03

This banana country Pakistan

Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani said on Friday that all major “stakeholders” — the president, the prime minister, the Supreme Court chief justice and the army chief — were in a “secure position” until 2013 and all institutions now needed to work within the ambit of constitution.{Coming soon after extending Kiyani's term for another 3 years, the meaning is obvious}

And, this was announced in a televised address to the nation by the Prime Minister. A country of truly frightening and comical proportions.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 24 Jul 2010 16:39

Ever since Shrilleen the Jalebi has taken over this rag, it has been nonstop entertainment. And what prose you previously could only in Urdu (in Nawa-e-waqt) is now available in angrezi as well:

40 innocent civilians killed, 34 injured by US air strikes in Helmand
by
Qari Yousuf Ahmadi

HELMAND, July 24. ...as many as 40 innocent non-combatant civilians were martyred and 34 more were seriously injured in Rigi area of Sngin, Helmand.

The report indicates the deadliest incident occurred while several dozens defenseless villagers including children and women, fearing the US savage invaders’ air strikes, gathered in Hajji Mohammad Husain house, when the US inhumane terrorists’ helicopters dropped bombs on the house and surrounding areas, taking mercilessly the lives of scores of innocents civilians ... (Taliban website)

And oh, btw, look at the depiction on this web page of the Paki National Bird:

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2010 17:06

Another fine set of pictures of SDRE wimmens at Wagah

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Jul 2010 17:17

SSridhar wrote:Another fine set of picture of SDRE wimmens at Wagah

Cool set of pics to watch with morning tea. Nice start to my weekend.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 24 Jul 2010 17:22

JUST IN: Karachi: 2 people killed, 1 injured in shooting in Surjani Town, 1 person killed in North Nazimabad, 31 people killed in incidents of target killing in 5 days.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2010 17:28

Telling comments in DAWN on Kayani's extension

Having said that, it is the decision of a democratically elected government to hand Gen Kayani his three-year extension. The public does not know yet, perhaps it never will, if the decision was a total capitulation or the result of a quid pro quo. {Both are possible}

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 24 Jul 2010 18:02

Sorry for being naive, but I'm not getting it fully.

How come the BSF women performing at wagha border ceremony is highly chankian ? How does it undermine pakis ?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 24 Jul 2010 18:13

>>How come the BSF women performing at wagha border ceremony is highly chankian ? How does it undermine pakis ?

In diplomatic parlance, it means i'm considering you as only equal to our wimmens by playing wimmnes opposite to their men.

In sports there are many examples which actually happened . Now consider, for playing against Pakistan in World Cup your are sending juniors and saying to beat Pakistan our juniors are more than enough. It has similar meaning.

Other Chanakianism that this board refers is the gradual degrade of importance to the pomp show happening in the wagah border. Or other may twist it as we are peace loving so putting more appealing cadet in place of menancing marches! All par for the course and depends on which glass you want to wear to have your point of view.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 24 Jul 2010 19:27

SSridhar wrote:Another fine set of pictures of SDRE wimmens at Wagah

Thanks for posting this! This one step was sheer genius!

There needs to be more such intelligent thinking...

For the dense - what is TSP going to pose to these fine SDRE officers who are women?
Burkha clan beauties with suicide vests?

What happens when even non-Indians start showing up on the Indian side
and start cheering for India? H&D on the Paki-side is shown the toilet where it belongs.

PS for some: Do not get into sexist tripe of our women are enough for their men.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2010 19:49

SSridhar wrote:Telling comments in DAWN on Kayani's extension
Having said that, it is the decision of a democratically elected government to hand Gen Kayani his three-year extension. The public does not know yet, perhaps it never will, if the decision was a total capitulation or the result of a quid pro quo. {Both are possible}

Very interesting article if you read between the lines. Kayani is a Musharraf appointee. One of the problems that came up when Mushy had to leave was to get a person who would be a US loyalist (GUBO certified)

More and more I am seeing this as an effort to keep the Paki army happy, satisfied and keeping the nukes in storage.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2010 19:53

NikhilB wrote:Sorry for being naive, but I'm not getting it fully.

How come the BSF women performing at wagha border ceremony is highly chankian ? How does it undermine pakis ?

The Wagah ceremony was an outdated one with testosterone and moustache twirling and a mine is bigger routine. I would have given full marks to the Pakis if they had suddenly called an end to that and put women. I am just happy India did it. We on BRF have been calling for the gotes to be closed by a paan chewing pot bellied crosseyed drunk. This is second best.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 24 Jul 2010 19:57

Thanks for the pics Sridhar...btw..whats up with these goris running with tiranga? did the photographer ask them to do so?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 24 Jul 2010 20:23

>>What happens when even non-Indians start showing up on the Indian side
and start cheering for India?

Already there Pulikeshi, there is a pic of three goris running with one holding a huge Indian flag... Massive psyops possibilities if the picture can be downloaded and, how do I put it, "circulated"

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 24 Jul 2010 20:30

Symbolism plays a major part in the diplomacy whether you like it or not; whether you deny it or not.

BSF comes under the Home Affairs which has the secretary as Pillai, the one which is considered to have 'scuttled' the 'peace' process on whom Pakis/Media have poured the scorn. Now anyone interested can check what sort of control Home affairs/Pillai has over the borders. Just in case, one headline reads as:
India may declare no-firing along Bangladesh border: Pillai

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 24 Jul 2010 20:33

JE Menon wrote:... if the picture can be downloaded and, how do I put it, "circulated"

Here you go Sir...

P.S: I am not sure if this violates any copyright issues. If so please report this post to admin and have it deleted.

Oops..looks like you are the mod

Shankas · Post by **Shankas** » 24 Jul 2010 20:44

shiv wrote:
Shankas wrote:
Suppose Indian Govt. and Indian investors buy a lot of Paki Bonds and in 10 years they default. What leverage will we have in that event?
I have a better idea. I have a white residential building for sale in Washington DC. It is currently temporarily occupied by a senior US government functionary - but you can have it any time you like. Going cheap. As a sweetener I can throw in a unique five-sided office building complex for free in the same town.

After reading the responses, I realize, I did not articulate my chain of thoughts clearly.

I was thinking of ways to create leverage. Can the Govt/investor create investment firms in US/EU/ME etc and buy the bonds. Maybe even involve/partner some western firms for insurance. Given the worsening situation inside Pak, we may be able to squeeze them.

I like Satya_anveshi's idea of getting access to Pak's natural resources, maybe these funds could acquire these resources

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 24 Jul 2010 20:49

We on BRF have been calling for the gotes to be closed by a paan chewing pot bellied crosseyed drunk. This is second best.

After the Pakis recruit some women rangers, India should send the chowkidar.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 24 Jul 2010 21:06

Why are Pakistan leaders too quite.
Are they planning anything on India. Looks like a conspiracy on India being planned as of now.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2010 21:10

Shankas wrote:
After reading the responses, I realize, I did not articulate my chain of thoughts clearly.

I was thinking of ways to create leverage. Can the Govt/investor create investment firms in US/EU/ME etc and buy the bonds. Maybe even involve/partner some western firms for insurance. Given the worsening situation inside Pak, we may be able to squeeze them.

I like Satya_anveshi's idea of getting access to Pak's natural resources, maybe these funds could acquire these resources

Shankas with respect (and I apologise for making a joke at your expense) - I believe you have been misinformed about Pakistan.

Pakistan is a criminal state. Things like "leverage" don't work unless you are there holding a gun to someone's head. And Pakistan is so dangerous that if you try that someone with a gun will blow your head off. Don't forget that this is a country that has cheerfully offered Dawood Ibrahim asylum.

Nothing that works elsewhere will work in Pakistan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jul 2010 21:15

NikhilB< In addition TSP claims to be an Islamic nation. Per their Mullahs status of women is much below that of men, kafirs, slaves and male children. So its like rubbing their noses. Same reason US sends female envoys to Islamic countries. Recent case of US TSP ties is double whammy: both Secy of State and the US ambassador to TSP are women.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 24 Jul 2010 22:23

Shankas wrote:
Ironically, ‘Pakistan Government Bond 10 year’ yield has been around 12pc since August 2009, but concerned authorities do not seem to be bothered.
...
A question for the financial gurus

Suppose Indian Govt. and Indian investors buy a lot of Paki Bonds and in 10 years they default. What leverage will we have in that event?

I dont think its that bad an idea. Rather India should tweak it a little it should take more stake in IMF & WB and be on the lending comitee that decides on paki begging requests. It should also get into friends of democratic pakistan (what ever that means). There is no problem in commiting to few billions in the meeting ( any ways who has to pay no one pays & when they pay 90% flows back to host country) that way we can have more levrage over pakis. introduce vat, introduce agricultural tax there are 100 ways to make mango abduls pay the price for terror.

Its like drug peddler dealing with addict. Once you get an addict hooked then you can get them to do anything. Here the addict is old case so not much is needed. Plus that is the sure shot way to get hold of resources, for those that think its easy to walk away from debt, I do not really agree. It would completely destroy ur credit worthiness in market no commercial entity will give them a dime of line of credit. How long can 3.5 shore them with all multilateral & private agencies laying their hands off jihadis.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 24 Jul 2010 22:34

JEM, lol, I was thinking the same!! Indeed those goris running with an SDRE flag is priceless. Dont know if you know the history behind Udayagiri Fort further south of Trivandrum, but this SDRE always earned for that feeling that the fort must have once provided to my forefathers. We need Legions of "consultants" carrying the Ashoka chakra insignia

NikhilB, a lot of gurus have explained above the reasons: Other than in their delusions, that Wagah ceremony is the only thing in the real world that Pakis can achieve equal-equal with India in anything that showcases a nation's strength. Does not say much about the country, but its average public likes that equal-equal feeling. Successive Indian Govts have rather too benevolently bestowed this benefit.

Take that opportunity away and their country has lost one of the last visible opportunity to indulge.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 24 Jul 2010 22:46

SSridhar wrote:Another fine set of pictures of SDRE wimmens at Wagah

Here you go... Gotta say... some crisp marching... crowd seems to be going crazy...

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 24 Jul 2010 22:57

Waiting with my chai hovering away from my keyboard....... only a matter of time before pakis haul in some unsuspecting euro-trash backpaper into doing the same thing with their flag

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 24 Jul 2010 23:21

Shankas wrote: A question for the financial gurus

Suppose Indian Govt. and Indian investors buy a lot of Paki Bonds and in 10 years they default. What leverage will we have in that event?

Dear Shankas, It's a good suggestion and yes it must be happening (but not on a scale you are suggesting). Financial interest transcends any other form of relationship.

Govt bonds are a piece of paper which is a promissory note without any strings attached. These papers have to be honored on face value without any prejudice. Bonds only has name of the guarantor and is NOT assigned to anyone. So even if India buys some Pakistani bonds then there is NO way Pakistan can determine which bonds are with India and which are not. Interested people should study the bond markets a little more.

If I were the Govt, then I would have significant portfolio of Paki bonds. Because a country like Pakistan doesn't actually have a treasury. Since they don't sit on cash they are dependent on Bonds for continuous cash injection. If there was a war and I had significant bonds from Pakistan, I can atleast for a short term can create a run on their fund raising capabilities... It will be interesting to see the performance of Indian 10 year bonds and Pakistani 10 year bonds during Kargil conflict.

Moreover, there is a history of conflicting parties owning each others bonds during the time of a war. Nazi's owned a lot of British government bonds via the swiss proxies. There are reports of meetings held in good offices of the swiss where even the waring nations collaborated on financial matters. During Napoleonic wars British Government let the Rothschilds transfer funds to France after they underwrote the sale of Louisiana to US.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Jul 2010 23:31

This bonds and et all is nice theory, but in the end it is nothing but a Bad Debt, NPA whatever you like to call it and we will taking is away from where its really wanted. Besides in times of war I am sure pakistan will use its connections in CHina + Saudi and Swiss banks to fund thier needs. Practically this Bond business to pakis is a very bad idea.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 24 Jul 2010 23:38

Sri wrote:
Here you go... Gotta say... some crisp marching... crowd seems to be going crazy...

We should have dancing hijras do this.