Bharat Rakshak

Anujan wrote:http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/09 ... wiss-bank/

Director Swiss Bank said ‘Pakistanis are poor but Pakistan isn’t a poor country.’ He added that 97 billion dollars of Pakistan is deposited in respective bank and if this money would be utilized for the welfare of Pakistan and its people then Pakistan can make tax less budget for 30 years, can create 60 million jobs, can carpet four lanes road from any village to Islamabad, endless power supply to five hundred social projects, every citizen can get 20000 rupees salary for the next 60 years and there is no need to see IMF and any World Bank for loans.

This needs to get a pulitzer.

Why poo-litzer saar, he has forgotten to factor in the 10% Zardari tax

CRamS wrote:Do I have the last word ? I think DocJi is way too obsessed with US loyalists garbage to take everything else he says seriously, including his surrender to TSP strategy. As always, truth is not black and white, but in between.So here goes:

Ok, let's see the problems with your post...

1. TSP's, especially pakijabi's hatred of India is beyond repair, its irreversible. They want nothing short of India destroyed or both India and TSP go down in a mushroom cloud. Status quo means India wins, and this is unacceptable to pakijabis. Thus, no room for compromise.

In in a space of 1 sentence you go ahead and contradict yourself, here is what you said above: "truth is not black and white, but in between"

And then you go ahead and make absolutely absolute statements like "especially pakijabi's hatred of India is beyond repair, its irreversible.".

My dear, if you go by your own statement, then nothing is irreversible, Paki will change their course, it is just matter of time.

The answer here is Pakistan can not change the statuesque, India will always be the big guy in the subcontinent!

2. USA and its lackeys, and China have harnessed this hatred to box and stymie India and lock it in an "South Asia" box. Furthermore, the sad part is that if US wants to, it can turn on the screws even more on India

If India is so hemmed in this "South Asia" box ( we can all thank/blame Olaf Caroe and Foster Dulles for that), how does it drill for oil in South China sea, and get to rub Uncle Sam's nose in dirt over Iran's sanctions issue, not the mention the MMRCA debacle which made the US ambassador resign promptly.

Point here that if USA wants to continue playing this game it will lose more than it will win.

3. As pathetic as it is, there is no doubt in my mind that if pigLeT terror is down today a tad, its because of US pressure on TSP, fence along the LOC notwithstanding. Furthermore, TSP itself made a conscious decision to scale back and embarrass India through stone pelting. And of course, MMSJi with his "borders are irrelevant" and post 26/11 surrender has kept TSP's hope alive that if they continue this path, a lot more is on the anvil. But make no mistake about it, TSP has not a paid a prices for its slaughter of Indians, rather, it has gained big time, its pigLeT infrastructure is still intact, and at the opportune moment, it can strike at will

Again to say that Pakistan have not paid any price is absolutely nonsensical. This 10 years long WOT has left the Paki tottering on the brink of collapse from which the country will not recover (without India's help).

Sheer numbers are mind boggling, do you think 35,000 dead Pakistani is not big enough price to pay? Possibly another a couple of hundred thousands permanently disabled?
Pretty much all girl schools destroyed in FATA? Society pushed back further closer to 7th century AD? Economy hardly growing?

The list can go on and on...and about the piglets, every year we hunt about 300+, and we havn't stopped doing that.

4. India's own faults, including obsessive secularism, weak sense of nationalism manifesting itself through this self-flagellating "hindu terrorism" (DocJi calls this Chanakyan) have all but rendered it impotent and soft state that anybody can p!ss on with impunity and get away with it

Again wrong premise and wrong conclusion, secularism has not made India a soft state, we Indians are by our own nature a soft state, not because of secularism.

5. Of course, there are Hindu extremists just as there are Christian extremists or whatever. But at best "Hindu extremists" can dif up cricket pitches in India, and show their "valor" on Valentine Day couples in India's metros. They are toothless cowards who don't deserve the equal equal labe with pigLeTs. But this equivalence that India has engineered has obliterated India's moral case against TSP-sponsored Islamic terror

I don't agree with your last sentence.

6. Indian middle class has absolutely no clue on the threats USA/TSP/China combine pose to India, and they are consumed with a mind numbing toxic combination of IT back office jobs, Bollywood, and cricket

Again you are vastly underestimating India's middle class and I might add the poor too. Just take a look at any opinion poll of national interest ( such as Cashmere ) and the outcome of the poll, majority of the voters are middle class and poor. Thus to to say that they have no clue is plain wrong.

Those of us who realize India's weaknesses, but feel it can do a lot better, call on to look within and do something about 4, 5,and 6. Only an internally strong India can the challenge US & its lackeys on 2. This has nothing to do with being a US loyalist or not, just hard-nosed facts.

That is fine, just be more objective.

Dard Brrega jyon jyon Dwa di jayeggi

Congress hearing on Balochistan unacceptable: Sherry Rehman

Pakistani ambassador in the United States capital, Washington, DC, Sherry Rehman has conveyed the reservations of Pakistan to the US administration on the hearing of a Congress sub-committee on Balochistan. The subcommittee on oversights and investigations of the House Foreign Affairs Committee had held the hearing on 8th February with testimonies from human rights organizations and policy-analysts on the human-rights violations and target-killings in Balochistan. According to a spokesperson of the Pakistani embassy, Ambassador Rehman, in her meetings with the congressmen and senior officials of the U.S. administration, said that the Congress hearing was marked by a blatant disregard for history and inflammatory use of selective facts. "It is deeply regrettable that the legislature of a country that calls itself a friend of Pakistan should allow itself to be used as a platform by those advocating the dismemberment of Pakistan and provide justification to terrorists attempting to hold Balochistan, and Pakistan, hostage," she said.
"Pakistan views this hearing with serious concern and considers it unacceptable in no uncertain terms," she stated adding that this kind of an exercise constituted interference in Pakistan’s internal affairs. The hearing, she observed, would be detrimental to building mutual trust and confidence and "will add to suspicions in Pakistan about the American motives in the region and concerning Pakistan

Thanks to Allah’
Poaq Doc Loak Shoak

Thanks to Allah’, as our cricketers would say, “Just 40.1 per cent of the 5-16 age group [schoolchildren in Pakistan] could do two-digit subtraction sums (with carry) whereas a mere 23.6 per cent were able to do three-digit division sums. Only 41.8 per cent could read a sentence in Urdu or their mother tongue (English is a far cry). Far fewer could read a story,” revealed the nuclear physicist Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy in his column yesterday, quoting the recently released Annual Status of Education Report.Ours is also a country where young adults in a Pak-Afghan border area barely know the name of the country they live in; many do not know the name of the President or the Prime Minister, as a televised interview by journalist Saleem Safi revealed the other day. But surely, if asked, the same bunch would have denounced America as a reincarnation of Satan in our times and hailed Bin Laden as their lost Messiah. And they would certainly also tell you what constitutes blasphemy, and why women should be locked up.The knowledge being disseminated from the pulpit (including TV televangelist shows) and the textbooks is simply frightening. It is frightening in the literal sense of the word, because it is aimed at instilling the fear of God in your hearts and minds via the most ferocious of interpretations of the religious dogma. This leaves one incapable of thinking for oneself.

Here’s an example: Tibb-i-Nabawi or treatment through recourse to medicines, herbs and curing techniques used by the Prophet of Islam is today a growing field. An entire brigade of pious, qualified doctors and homoeopathists has jumped on to the bandwagon. Many are administering treatment through Hijama, which is Arabic for an old Chinese technique that extracts toxins from the body by superficial incisions made on the skin and drawing blood,

using vacuum cups, hence, ‘cupping’.The Prophet must have used it and also recommended it for its curative properties, but to call it a divinely-guided cure for all ailments, from pain in the back to diabetes and hernia, is really stretching it, especially the divine part of it. This is precisely what Hijama practitioners claim as they urge you to recite Ayat-ul-Kursi (a Quranic verse with healing and helpful qualities whilst in distress) as they administer ‘cupping’. And thanks to Allah, many are cured.

Who needs arithmetic, reading or writing stories in a worldly language, God forbid, when we have our own unique, divine mechanisms, and Arabic, to guide us through this transitory life on Earth?

( Poaqfools)

When Ham met Ash:

anupmisra wrote:When Ham met Ash:

Zaid Hamid looks about 5 foot 6 inches. Pretty tall - considering that the average Indian is 5 foot 2.

More seriously the deferential attitude towards Assphuck is telling.

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ Not mine to award, but deserves a "Being Different" award.

Thanks. I went for Rajiv Malhotra's book release function and bought both "Breaking India" and "Being Different". Just started reading Breaking India while the other waits (along with 8 other books I have bought in 2 years lying unread)

Malhotra has done some pretty deep research for the Breaking India book and he lists out a series of basically racist white European biases that were sparked off by "Philologists" to reconcile the elegance and advancement of the Sanskrit language and literature and their own perceived need to put Christian whites ahead of other races - especially the darkies and Jews.

To me it is interesting that educated Pakistanis have shown themselves (in their writings) remarkably aware of these European (now) racist literature. It now occurs to me that the sane Indian Muslims - the Ashraf who later formed Pakistan were introduced to the same racist white supremacist literature of Europe from 1800 to 1900. English educated Indians like Tagore, Gandhi, Nirad Chaudhuri. Ambedkar etc were probably also exposed to the same literature - but the white bias that saw great differences between the real white and the black, flat nosed "Dravidian Dasyus" was probably internalised by a class of people who became the current RAPE-set of Pakistan. I have found references to "flat nosed black Indians" in YouTube comments from Pakis in videos designed to irritate and provoke them to reveal their inner pisky.

If you look at fair complexioned Indians today - you find two classes. One class is "White like gora" and the other is "Fair to wheatish" For example Raj Kapoor and Kareena Kapoor were/are "White like gora/gori.

That photo of Kiyani and his appshuckers posted above shows a Pakistani crowd that has these features. Zaid Hamid and the bearded budha in teh background are while like gora. Kiyani and the obsequious man to his right are "fair to wheatish". The soldier is a relative kaalu. Fair but not fair.

I suspect that in Pakistan, Kashmiris and Pathans were the gora-est, along with some Pakjabis. Mohajirs of the Ashraf class like Djinnah were probably fair like gora. But Biharis and other mohajirs along with a whole lot of Sindhis are probably kaalus. But the Paki narrative revolves around a racist narrative and I just wonder if Pakis have managed to plug into and derive power from some embedded racist narrative in the West. I know that some of that stuff is only just below the surface in gora land.

Did you know that the Sanskrit word for "Blackboard" is "Krishnaphalakam"? Krishna, who is greatly revered is synonymous with black. Goes to show how attitudes towards black and white have almost surely been imposed on Indians from a racist Eurpean colonial perspective.

Uncalled for haste
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... -for-haste

Our initial angry reaction to the death of 26 of our soldiers at the hands of Isaf appeared to have mellowed down and we are rushing into re-establishing contacts and normalising relations with the US. Chairman of US Senate Foreign Relations Committee Senator John Kerry frankly declared at the committee meeting that the US sees India in a leadership role of the region. The powerful Senator, reflecting the thinking of the Obama administration, believes that New Delhi has a central role to play in meeting the numerous global challenges as well as in strengthening the Afghan economy. That is despite our legitimate and declared stand that India has no justifiable part to play in the Afghan context, and the US advocacy of its role would give rise to greater problems for Pakistan. In the garb of economic cooperation, India is already exploiting its presence in Afghanistan, now under a regime friendly to it, by interfering in Balochistan, aiding and abetting Baloch dissidents. Thus, India’s greater role there would create a situation under which Pakistan would be facing a hostile force, both on the eastern and western front. Senator Kerry, along with Senator Richard Lugar, has also expressed serious concerns over the unstable conditions in Pakistan and Afghanistan and the growing military might of China.on a reset of Pak-US cooperation have not been debated by Parliament. And in the meantime, there is even talk of reopening the Nato supply route. We need to rethink our US policy keeping in mind our national interests. Neither the Indian role in Afghanistan, nor the violation of our territorial sovereignty by drones, nor the wanton killing of our security forces, is acceptable to Pakistan. This must be clearly mentioned in any agreement to be signed with the US under a review of relatio

What role does India have in Afghanistan? India has no role in Afghanistan. This is a matter between the USA and Pakistan. India is a bogey used by the Pakistan army to get its men to fight Afghans so the US can pay them money.

The rank and file of the Bakistan army are relative kaalus. But RAPE class are racist-fair

Army
http://theswash.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... Army-3.jpg
http://www.uruknet.info/pic.php?f=19pakistan-army.jpg

Puki Army fair/tight-assedness by ethnicity
Punjab Regiment
http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/UserFiles/%2858%29.JPG

Baloch regiment
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... image1.jpg

Sindh Regiment
http://www.pakstudy.com/images/Edu_Pic- ... ERABAD.jpg

Frontier force regiment
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... image1.jpg

Pakistan parliament
http://img.irna.ir/1390/13901027/307700 ... 183234.jpg

Here is Google for Pakistan Flood Victims

Anyone notice any colour class differences in Pakistan?

shiv wrote:What role does India have in Afghanistan? India has no role in Afghanistan. This is a matter between the USA and Pakistan. India is a bogey used by the Pakistan army to get its men to fight Afghans so the US can pay them money.

The Pakistan army needs a good excuse for its men to fight in the west while Paki army officers get paid by the US. The India bogey in Afghanistan is a good excuse. Naturally its suits the US to see the Paki army do this.

Jhujar wrote:Thanks to Allah’
Poaq Doc Loak Shoak

Primary school textbooks are now replete with such day-to-day knowledge that will win you brownie points in the hereafter. Wasn’t it the founder of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, who whilst on a visit to Karachi in the 1970s was asked how his country could help Pakistan become an economic power, and he had remarked with words to the effect, that how can you even begin to think helping a people who believe that real life starts after death?

Q. When this is the national psyche of Pakistan, why all the rhona dhona about 35,000 embracing shahadat for GWOT and the 24 pest shaheedized on a remote mountain top? They should be celebrating the fact that those folks are starting to LIVE the real LIFE!

Blasts, firing near PTIs rally leave 7 injured in Swabi
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... d-in-swabi

Heavy firing followed a two minor blasts as Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) concluded its huge public gathering in Swabi on Friday. Media reports said seven people, including four policemen were injured in the attack. Some participants of the rally were also among the injured. Police said that attackers hurled hand grenades during the attack. Talking to media PTI Chief Imran Khan said that he was safe as he had left the venue shortly after the rally concluded.

Dipanker wrote:
In in a space of 1 sentence you go ahead and contradict yourself, here is what you said above: "truth is not black and white, but in between"

Can we get past these silly gotchas please? OK, you spotted a contradiction, big deal. My point was that India's plight visa vi TSP is a combination of US perfidy and India's self goals and weaknesses. Its not one or the other, and matter of fact, each feeds off the other. And the low hanging fruit is to tackle what is in India's control, namely internal cohesion and building internal strength. Only then will it be able to confront US's perfidy. But certainly ignoring all of TSP's crimes, and surrendering to TSP is not the way to go. And self flagellation in the form of taking on "Hindu terrorism" by casting it as the equivalent of 26/11 is diabolical, treasonous, and nothing but cowardice of the first order in trying to impress the enemy.

You do make some good points in the rest of your post, of course interspersed with some that I disagree with. But lets leave it at that.

CRamS wrote:And the low hanging fruit is to tackle what is in India's control, namely internal cohesion and building internal strength. Only then will it be able to confront US's perfidy.

India must know its place. CRamS shows an instinctive understanding of India's place by being deeply familiar with Indians and Americans, and hence has a keen eye for what India needs to do. It is the low hanging fruit that India must first tackle before going on to high ideals like tackling the USA.

This is sage advice for India to stick to its own weight class and not to get too uppity about punching the real superiors before tackling low hanging fruit which is all India is likely to reach given its weak nationhood.

What I find interesting - and totally irrelevant (for a few brainy seers of course) is that it is possible for some countries to set up "low hanging fruit" like Pakistan for India to tackle, and then get their ethnic minority cronies and cheerleaders to advise the entire country of India by saying "Here Rover. Tackle this bone first. After that you can talk about tackling me. Don't even dream of tackling me when you can't even tackle the low hanging fruit, and here is one of your own telling you" My admiration for America lies in the way America creates such cronies out of Indians. Sorry to digress.

Djinnah was a Parsi bhai.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/02/pakis ... quran.html
Christian student misses out on medical school for not memorizing Qur'an

LAHORE: Haroon Arif, a student from DG Khan in Punjab, could not get high enough marks to get into medical school. This is a standard situation for many young people in the country. What’s different here is that Haroon, who missed the grade by less than 0.1%, would have earned 20 extra marks if he was Hafiz-e-Quran. He tried to claim his knowledge of the Bible was equivalent, but this made no impact. “I deserved it and yet just because I am Christian, I have been put at a disadvantage,” Haroon says.He found out about the discrimination on viewing the results at his test centre last month. “There was a separate column for Hafiz-e-Quran, and I found out that those who had memorised the holy book got 20 extra marks,” he adds.

Dark and dastardly






Fair and lovely

shiv wrote: I suspect that in Pakistan, Kashmiris and Pathans were the gora-est, along with some Pakjabis. Mohajirs of the Ashraf class like Djinnah were probably fair like gora. But Biharis and other mohajirs along with a whole lot of Sindhis are probably kaalus. But the Paki narrative revolves around a racist narrative and I just wonder if Pakis have managed to plug into and derive power from some embedded racist narrative in the West. I know that some of that stuff is only just below the surface in gora land.

Dr. Shiv:

Last year during the Pathan-Mohajir clashes in Karachi, I was looking at some of the news clips posted on BRF, and I was struck by the fact that the Mohajirs looked so SDRE, totally different from the TFTA image projected on Puki forums.

This entire Paki TFTA/ Indian SDRE business is BS. If dressed and groomed the same way, Pakjabis look no different than Indian Punjabis, Pak-Mohajirs no different than Indian Biharis, and so on.


In India, skin colour is not an indicator of wealth or power, but in Pakistan it seems it is.

ramana wrote:Djinnah was a Parsi bhai.

No, he was descended from Gujarati Hindus. IIRC his was a Brahmin family that converted to Islam a couple of generations before him.

shiv wrote:I suspect that in Pakistan, Kashmiris and Pathans were the gora-est, along with some Pakjabis. Mohajirs of the Ashraf class like Djinnah were probably fair like gora. But Biharis and other mohajirs along with a whole lot of Sindhis are probably kaalus. But the Paki narrative revolves around a racist narrative and I just wonder if Pakis have managed to plug into and derive power from some embedded racist narrative in the West. I know that some of that stuff is only just below the surface in gora land.

Pakis lead the Subcontinent's Moslems in endorsing and blindly repeating the Aryan Invasion theory ad nauseum, in order to "justify" the depradations and colonialism of Turko-Arab-Afghan Islamic invaders. By distorting another's history (Hindus' history), they create a precedent that "justifies" what happened over the last 1000 years. "My fly is open, but your shirt is also torn."

More than other Moslems of the Subcontinent, Pakis also take the double pleasure of being the original "Aryans", one step above the Indians and a step closer to the Persians. That's how they see it. One time at university here in the US, an Afghan professor who had studied in Pakistan was hosting a seminar with some visiting "dignitaries" from Afghanistan (mostly rehabilitated ex-Talibunnies). After the formal statements were over, I and a couple of other Indians were hanging out and talking with him and a few others. For several years now a lot of Afghans and Pakis have been touting a theory of "lost Jewish tribe" origins. So one of us asked this proff whether he considered Afghans to be a lost Jewish tribe. He waived his hand and said no, no, we're Aryans. Aryans, you know? and he had a superior smile on his face as he looked at us Indians, blinking politely back. He proceeded to explain to us and a few others standing around that that's why in India Punjabis are taller and fair and as you go deeper in, people become shorter and darker. Then he yammered on too far and said that in Hindu castes also you find the same, with the high castes taller and fairer, and the lower ones short and dark. Now among the 3 of us, we had a Brahmin. In jest, I asked him to identify which one. He pointed at the tallest, fairest Indian, who turned out to be the Jatt. Then he chose me since I was shorter, but still peachy. Wrong again. You should have seen the look on his face when he realized that the only Brahmin among us was the short, dark unprepossessing fellow.

shiv wrote: No need to get upset saar - but the tendency to look inside oneself when the problem is outside is one of the sillliest things I have heard being repeated ad nauseam. It reflects in the stupid solutions I hear - where the US supplies Pakistan with arms and we ignore that using some stupid rationalization like "The US acts in its interests" or "Its a tough life" or "The US may be fading but it may be useful to us someday". After ignoring US supply of arms to Pakistan we flagellate ourselves for not being better and purer and demand that we correct ourselves first. That is ludicrous.

Are you saying the people of India or GOI does not say to the US enough that it stop supporting TSP? You attribute extreme chanakyanness to GOI in dealing with Pakistan? Isn't it the same GOI that is dealing with USA? If it is not telling the USA to stop aiding Pakistan, then perhaps it has a reason. I think it does not go unsaid that Pakistan is supported by its 3.5 friends either here in BRF or Indian media or the general public or even GOI. May be we should harangue every body with it to the detriment of every other aspect in our relation ships? We have significant trade relation ships with a lot of countries that support Pakistan. Do you think those relation ships are not worth keeping if we are unable to get them to stop supporting Pakistan?

Looks like UK auntie's media is closely following the fortunes of Her Majesty's blue eyed boy:

One killed and 12 hurt in gun attack on Imran Khan rally

One person was killed and a dozen injured as two gunmen opened fire and threw hand grenades at a political rally led by Imran Khan. The cricketer-turned-politician had left the venue before the attack and was not hurt.

Yesterday's killings came soon after Mr Khan, the leader of the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) party, had concluded the rally at Swabi in the province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Police suggested that they, rather than the PTI or its followers, were the target of the unidentified attackers. Seven of the wounded were police officers.

Djinnah ke DJinghey,Poaqs are actually Shattbeeji and made from the left over spare parts by the creator god . A cross between Donkey and Wilder beast on the face, they got the Mush of Hippo , mouth of pig and the Aqal of Toe nail. With the heart of rat they suck blood like bat and cry like cat. Taking pride in being routnely taimed they feel no shame in begging game.

Kakkaji wrote:

ramana wrote:Djinnah was a Parsi bhai.

No, he was descended from Gujarati Hindus. IIRC his was a Brahmin family that converted to Islam a couple of generations before him.

Jinnah's family was Ismaili khoja who speak mostly Katchi language. Quite a few of them still live in India. It is a Shia form of Islam. Wiki suggests that he converted to a Twelver Shia (one of the largest sect among the Shia, Ismailis being second largest).

Delicious irnoy that majority Puki Sunnis think Shias are not even muslims :lol:i
just goes to show..Karma is eternal

Pak Navy to build nuclear submarine

Pakistan has decided to build nuclear submarine for Pakistan Navy to better meet its defense requirements.

The nuclear submarine would be build in the country. 400% pindigenous onlee.

It would take anywhere from 5 to 8 years to build the nuclear submarine after which Pakistan would join the list of countries that has a nuclear submarine.

Pak Navy to build nuclear submarine

...In deference to Birader Mulk Cheen, they will not steal the Chinese thunder (sic) and build it before the Chinese have successfully launched and tested their submarine. In the meanwhile, R&D will be done for manufacturing procuring corrosion proof green paint for the hull.

In the meanwhile, they should launch plans to build their own Nuclear Carrier too.

Disturbing development, if true. Urdu Daily: Chinese Military Taking Over Gilgit Baltistan, Pakistan Considering Proposal to Lease the Disputed Region to China for 50 Years

By a strange coincidence I have started reading Rajiv Malhotra's "Breaking India" Here are a few excerpts that must come on this thread because Indians weak nationalism has been cited as a cause of problems by seers on this thread:

A man called "Risley" took up Max Muller's works and turned it into the
"centerpiece of racist ethnology of India (Page 54)

"Risley became the leading figure of Indian ethnology. His long and powerful
tenure in the British civil service in India lent strength to his ideas. His
work became institutionalised within the workings of the British empire (pg 54)

Risley wrote that he wanted his "scientific" research to "detach considerable
masses of non Aryans from the general body of Hindus" (pg 54)

Risley took Max Muller's linguistic hierarchies and turned them into a solid
link between language and race. (pg 56)

Risley "concluded that Indian tribes had turned into castes". Scholars such as
Risley claimed that the European society had evolved quite differently. He wrote
that "In Europe, indeed, the movement has been all in the opposite direction.
The tribes consolidated into nations; they did not sink into the political
impotence of caste" Fig 5.1 shows Risley's theory of how races ended up forming
nations in Europe, while India lacked any sense of nationhood due to caste as
the form.(pg 57)

Now, in 2012 Risley comes right back to us on BRF

CRamS wrote: 4. India's own faults, including obsessive secularism, weak sense of nationalism -blablabla

In this connection, it is pertinent to quote Rajiv Malhotra from page 48 of that book

The new found Indological knowledge became recognized as an efficient tool for undernmining Indian civilization and establishing British supremacy. A vast educational infrastructure was set up both in India and britain to deal specifically with the production and dissemination of information about India from a colonial perspective. These institutios employed native Indians as collaborators to gain their knowledge, in an effort to map Indian texts and Sanskrit terms onto European framewroks. Also. the colonists wanted to use the Indian informants to influence other Indian scholars, using them as intermediaries to alter the dynamics of native scholarship in the long run.

Boy. Whoda thunk it from one of the loudest self advertising patriots who proclaims holding India very close to one's heart.

hanumadu wrote: Are you saying the people of India or GOI does not say to the US enough that it stop supporting TSP? You attribute extreme chanakyanness to GOI in dealing with Pakistan? Isn't it the same GOI that is dealing with USA? If it is not telling the USA to stop aiding Pakistan, then perhaps it has a reason. I think it does not go unsaid that Pakistan is supported by its 3.5 friends either here in BRF or Indian media or the general public or even GOI. May be we should harangue every body with it to the detriment of every other aspect in our relation ships? We have significant trade relation ships with a lot of countries that support Pakistan. Do you think those relation ships are not worth keeping if we are unable to get them to stop supporting Pakistan?

Hold your horses sir. Let me get one thing clear.

Where did you get the idea that I "attribute extreme chanakyanness to GOI in dealing with Pakistan"? If you interpreted that from something I have written kindly point me to the passage so I can explain myself. If you are merely parrotting out what someone else wrote, you are wrong. Having got that out of the way, I will attempt to answer your question.

I have a list of occasions from the 1950s where indian govenments have told the US not to arm Pakistan. Since it is archived on my HDD I will produce it for your reading pleasure as soon as I can locate it. The US has continued to do that nevertheless and we have one forum member here saying "That is the law of the jungle and we must not complain". That is unadulterated bullshit as far as I am concerned. Only slaves are asked not to complain. Not free people. Only a slave mentality will make one think that one must not complain if something is wrong.

You are merely trotting out one more excuse and to me that excuse sounds pathetic,. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted your argument. You are saying that we should not complain to nations who supply arms to Pakistan because they will spoil our trade relationships with them. Why should those nations stop trading with India if we complain? Are we slaves or something? Why are those nations so interested in gifting arms to Pakistan that they will stop trading with us if we complain?

The truth is worse than that. They supply arms to Pakistan and their "trade" with us is arms and technology, so that we can be "balanced" by Pakistan. Every time we fight Pakistan (because Pakistan is provoked into attacking India), it gives them a ready made excuse to arm Pakistan and then offer to sell us arms so we are played between sanctions and fighting with Pakistan. When we deliberately do not fight Pakistan (and take blows from Pakistan), their excuse to supply arms to Pakistan becomes hollow. We then need to ask exactly why they continue to supply arms to Pakistan despite the fact that India means peace. If they still supply arms to Pakistan it means that they are doing it deliberately and maliciously. Why trade with them then? It is not just Pakistan who is an enemy. Why is everyone concentrating on Pakistan? That is being blinkered apart from being dhimmified enough to love the US despite the US having several fingers up India's backside.

shiv wrote: Hold your horses sir. Let me get one thing clear.

Where did you get the idea that I "attribute extreme chanakyanness to GOI in dealing with Pakistan"? If you interpreted that from something I have written kindly point me to the passage so I can explain myself. If you are merely parrotting out what someone else wrote, you are wrong. Having got that out of the way, I will attempt to answer your question.

You seemed to approve GOI's strategy of not attacking Pakistan and extending a friendly hand to it. Are you saying you do not approve it? Are you saying it is not a clever policy?

shiv wrote: I have a list of occasions from the 1950s where indian govenments have told the US not to arm Pakistan. Since it is archived on my HDD I will produce it for your reading pleasure as soon as I can locate it. The US has continued to do that nevertheless and we have one forum member here saying "That is the law of the jungle and we must not complain". That is unadulterated bullshit as far as I am concerned. Only slaves are asked not to complain. Not free people. Only a slave mentality will make one think that one must not complain if something is wrong.

So GOI did ask the US not to arm Pakistan. One person on BRF is not representative of India or even BRF.

shiv wrote: You are merely trotting out one more excuse and to me that excuse sounds pathetic,. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted your argument. You are saying that we should not complain to nations who supply arms to Pakistan because they will spoil our trade relationships with them. Why should those nations stop trading with India if we complain? Are we slaves or something? Why are those nations so interested in gifting arms to Pakistan that they will stop trading with us if we complain?

You did misinterpret my argument. I did not say not to complain but let it not define every other aspect of our foreign policy.

shiv wrote: The truth is worse than that. They supply arms to Pakistan and their "trade" with us is arms and technology, so that we can be "balanced" by Pakistan. Every time we fight Pakistan (because Pakistan is provoked into attacking India), it gives them a ready made excuse to arm Pakistan and then offer to sell us arms so we are played between sanctions and fighting with Pakistan. When we deliberately do not fight Pakistan (and take blows from Pakistan), their excuse to supply arms to Pakistan becomes hollow. We then need to ask exactly why they continue to supply arms to Pakistan despite the fact that India means peace. If they still supply arms to Pakistan it means that they are doing it deliberately and maliciously. Why trade with them then? It is not just Pakistan who is an enemy. Why is everyone concentrating on Pakistan? That is being blinkered apart from being dhimmified enough to love the US despite the US having several fingers up India's backside.

You yourself said you have a list of the occasions when GOI asked the US to stop supplying arms to Pakistan. As for excuses, they will come up with some thing else. There are other countries apart from India who have a bone of contention between them, but none the less trade with other.

I think this is another one of your experiments

Anindya wrote:Pakistan considering proposal to lease Gilgit-Baltistan to China: US think tank

eh.. so what.. Not even a blade of grass grows there..

hanumadu wrote: You seemed to approve GOI's strategy of not attacking Pakistan and extending a friendly hand to it. Are you saying you do not approve it? Are you saying it is not a clever policy?

Very nice. How about that? "GoI's strategy"?

What I said many days ago on BRF was "It is not true that GoI has no strategy for dealing with Pakistan. The GoI has a strategy and that strategy is not to attack Pakistan". Until then everyone was complaining that india had no strategy to deal with Pakistan. I cooked up this "strategy" on the spur of the moment when I suddenly realised that this is what the GoI is saying. GoI keeps saying "We want peace, Not war. War is no solution" Other than that it was a theory straight from my musharraf. The GoI has never ever stated "We will never attack Pakistan" that as a strategy. Only I did. On BRF.

Now everyone, including you seem to have instantly accepted my hypothesis pulled out of the very musharraf I am sitting on that GoI actually has such a strategy and on top of that blind acceptance of my assertion, you think I approve of it as Chankian? And you are arguing with me about my approving a previously non existent strategy that I cooked up as possible reality? How about that? You guys need to first think whether I am correct at all in speculating that GoI has a strategy and that strategy is not to attack Pakistan. If you agree with my musharraf's hypothesis you can decide whether it is Chankian or not, if you disagree there is no argument. The GoI may still have no strategy. No such strategy has been officially admitted. Just because I exercised my ample musharraf on BRF does not make it GoI strategy. The only Chankianism here is my own musharraf that has come up with an idea that all you guys have internalised as "GoI strategy"

hanumadu wrote: I did not say not to complain but let it not define every other aspect of our foreign policy.

No. You made a post in response to my response to a post that stated that "india should not complain about arms to Pakistan because that is the law of the jungle" or some such thing. I think you just joined in the middle and got caught in the cross fire

Uncle is persistent, if anything.

Three years ago, in 2009, Uncle had a big flash of genius inspiration, and saw a new young Benazir in the making. Educated in Paris and London School of Economics, and speaking perfect angrezi, this fair and lovely was invited to the US for a month long VIP tour, meeting bigwigs in DC and elsewhere, and lighting up C-Span and more. Of course, on return to TSP, Marvi Memon jumped right back into the lap of Zaid Hamid, including physically.

Many many years before that, Uncle had a similar epiphany, when another London School of Economics babe was spotted as full of promise, and was then grandly escorted to Columbia, and was even indulged with a Columbia Ph.D. Of course, as we well know, the outcome of this experiment was the Darth Vader by the name of Shireen Mazari.

But Unkil has not given up hope. He now wants to have a pipeline full of hundreds of Shireen Mazari types:

Fulbright scholarships: US launches world’s largest programme in Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: Amid strained ties and mutual mistrust, the United States Educational Foundation in Pakistan has announced the world’s largest Fulbright programme in Pakistan for the 2013.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/to-forti ... 10322.html

A report, titled “Pakistan’s Deteriorating Situation, Strained Relations with America: Deliberation on Leasing Gilgit Baltistan to China for 50 years”, which was published in the Urdu daily ‘Roznama Bang-e-Sahar’, had said: “In the backdrop of the deteriorating situation in Pakistan and strained relations with America, deliberations have begun (on a proposal) to hand over Gilgit-Baltistan to China on a 50-year lease”.

“A Chinese think tank has also given the green light for this move,” said the Urdu daily, which was distributed in Gilgit Baltistan on December 13, 2011, less than three weeks after the November 26, 2011 NATO raid on a Pakistani border post that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, according to the US think tank, which is headed by a former FBI official.

The Urdu daily said the think tanks of China and Pakistan have begun discussions to hand over Gilgit-Baltistan region to the control of China on lease. “In the first stage of this plan, China will formulate a strategy for development projects and in the name of working on them will gradually take over the control of this region. In the next stage, China will take over Gilgit-Baltistan under its total control for 50 years and deploy its troops there,” it said.

The Roznama Bang-e-Sahar report acquires importance in view of the five-day visit of China by Pakistan army chief General Ashfaq Kayani on January 4-8, 2012, the US think tank said. During a meeting with Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao in Beijing, General Kayani had said that development of ChinaPakistan strategic partnership is the “cornerstone of the two countries’ policies.”

In his remarks, the Chinese Premier had said that “the Chinese government and the PLA (People’s Liberation Army) would continue to strengthen defence cooperation between the two countries and more frequent military-to-military exchanges.”

Based on news reports published in the local Urdu press, the Washington-based think tank said that Pakistani and Chinese militaries are moving in the direction of a joint military management of Gilgit Baltistan. The two militaries will cooperate under a specific plan designated by Pakistan as the Pak-China Strategic Programme for Gilgit Baltistan, it said.

As part of this plan, officials from Pakistan’s Northern Light Infantry (NLI) and People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China would “undergo joint trainings and exchange of expertise.” According to a Pakistani newspaper, the Pak-China Strategic Programme for Gilgit-Baltistan will come into force in June 2012, the think tank said.

shiv wrote:What I said many days ago on BRF was "It is not true that GoI has no strategy for dealing with Pakistan. The GoI has a strategy and that strategy is not to attack Pakistan". Until then everyone was complaining that india had no strategy to deal with Pakistan. I cooked up this "strategy" on the spur of the moment when I suddenly realised that this is what the GoI is saying. GoI keeps saying "We want peace, Not war. War is no solution" Other than that it was a theory straight from my musharraf. The GoI has never ever stated "We will never attack Pakistan" that as a strategy. Only I did. On BRF.

Just hair-splitting but "We will not attack Pakistan" is our policy, and not our strategy. Now the strategy behind that policy of "No-Attack" would be perhaps to minimize the danger of escalation, which could jeopardize India's steady growth and the current level of stability.

We do have a strategy for solving our Pakistan problem, the problem of nuclear threat, the problem of threat of two-pronged attack, the problem of terrorism, the problem of denial of land access to West and Central Asia, the problem of radicalization of Muslim youth in the Subcontinent, the problem of external support to organized crime in India, the problem of counterfeit currency, etc.. That strategy is "Hope for a Better Tomorrow"!

RajeshA wrote: Just hair-splitting but "We will not attack Pakistan" is our policy, and not our strategy.

Out of curiosity, how would you define the difference between policy and strategy? I note that you say it is policy - I will not allow you to back down on that for argument's sake.

Arun Roperia wrote:Disturbing development, if true. Urdu Daily: Chinese Military Taking Over Gilgit Baltistan, Pakistan Considering Proposal to Lease the Disputed Region to China for 50 Years

Hope this gets signed, then both countries would have literally pissed on the 1949 UN resolution. Hope Our MEA can then atleast go on the offensive, with the Media for once supporting Indian Interests.

Aditya_V wrote:

Arun Roperia wrote:Disturbing development, if true. Urdu Daily: Chinese Military Taking Over Gilgit Baltistan, Pakistan Considering Proposal to Lease the Disputed Region to China for 50 Years

Hope this gets signed, then both countries would have literally pissed on the 1949 UN resolution. Hope Our MEA can then atleast go on the offensive, with the Media for once supporting Indian Interests.

If true I think it is an admission by Pakistan that it is unable to govern those provinces and that they would rather give them to China than accept any chance of their rejoining India. Pakistan is failing. We may need to gather up and catch Pakistan and make it ours in order that the territories of former India are not given away by a desperate people.

"Offence" is not necessarily the right response.