Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

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anupmisra
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by anupmisra »

The First Step in Recovery is Admitting You Have a Problem. Mumbai case suspects trained at LeT camps
Intelligence officials informed an anti-terrorism court (ATC) on Saturday that suspects in the Mumbai attacks case got training at various centres of the banned Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) militant organisation, including navigational training in Karachi.
Navigational training in k'rachi? How clandestine can one get to provide naval training in the biggest city in pa'astan without the prying eyes of ISI? Time to name names:
...informed the court about the training details and capabilities of suspects Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi (the alleged mastermind), Abdul Wajid, Mazhar Iqbal, Hammad Amin Sadiq, Shahid Jameel Riaz, Jamil Ahmed and Younas Anjum
...trained at LeT centres and at sea near Yousaf Goth
But wait. It gets better.
FIA’s Special Prosecutor Chaudhry Zulfiqar Ali told the court that the witnesses were responsible officials who had recorded their statements without any pressure. They had no ill-will against the suspects, he said, adding: “It was their job to keep the militants of proscribed organisation under observation.”
Khwaja Mohammad Haris, counsel for Lakhvi, asked the prosecution witnesses whether they had witnessed the suspects getting training at the LeT camps.
The hearing will resume on Nov 17.
Until then the intelligence officers are advised to watch their backs. :lol:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by sum »

Pakistan marks ''Malala Day'', poor children to get cash for school
The families of more than 3 million poor children in Pakistan will receive cash stipends if their children go to school, the government said as officials prepared to mark "Malala Day" on Saturday in support of a schoolgirl shot by the Taliban.

U.N. officials declared Malala Day one month after 15-year-old Malala Yousufzai and two of her classmates were shot by the Pakistan Taliban. She had been targeted for speaking out against the insurgency.
In the days following the shooting, Yousufzai became an international icon and world leaders pledged to support her campaign for girls' education. She is now recovering in a British hospital.

On Friday, Pakistani president Asif Zardari added his signature to petitions signed by more than a million people urging Pakistan to pay stipends to families who put their girls in school in honor of Malala.

"Malala's dreams represent what is best about Pakistan," said former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown as he presented the petitions to President Zardari.

Tens of thousands of Britons have called on the government to nominate Malala Yousufzai for a Nobel Peace Prize for her work promoting girls' education.

On Friday, the government announced that poor families will now receive $2 a month per child in primary school.

The program will be funded by the World Bank and Britain and distributed through the government's Benazir Income Support Programme, designed to give small cash payments to needy families. The families in the programme already receive $10 a month for basic expenditure.
:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by sum »

Pak cricket fans must have an Indian sponsor to get visa
Any Pakistani cricket lover who wants to visit India to watch the upcoming limited over Indo-Pak cricket matches will have to have an Indian sponsor to get a visa as 12 Pakistani spectators had gone missing after the 2007 bilateral series.

The Home Ministry has made it mandatory for each Pakistani cricket fan intending to witness the forthcoming cricket series beginning December 25 to have a local sponsor to get visa.

The decision has come as 12 Pakistani men, who came to India to watch the last India-Pakistan bilateral cricket series held in November-December 2007, did not return home and are yet to be traced.

"There will be no relaxation of visa rules for the cricket fans. We cannot compromise our security as it is our prime concern. So, whoever seeks visa, has to name a local sponsor," a Home Ministry official said.

There will be no cap on the number of visas to be issued for the Pakistani cricket lovers and whoever fulfils the prescribed criteria and becomes eligible to get visa will get it.
Wow...unlimited visas and no cap on numbers! Truely Aman-ki-Asha in full flow.

Wonder what happens if the Indian sponsor turns out to be a resident ISI agent ( of whom there is no shortage in Desh)?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by chetak »

Balkanizing Pakistan: A Collective National Security Strategy


Breaking Pakistan to Fix It

The argument for Balkanizing Pakistan or, more specifically, fragmenting the Islamic Republic so it's easier to police and economically develop, has been on the table since Pakistan's birth in 1947 when the country was spit out of a British laboratory. And lately, the concept is looking more appealing by the day, because as a result of flawed boundaries combined with the nexus between military rule and Islamic extremism, Pakistan now finds itself on a rapid descent toward certain collapse and the country's leaders stubbornly refuse to do the things required to change course. But before allowing Pakistan to commit state suicide, self-disintegrate and further destabilize the region, the international community can beat them to the punch and deconstruct the country less violently.

To quell any doubts about Pakistan's seemingly uncontrollable spiral into darkness, just recently, Foreign Policy Magazine ranked Pakistan as the tenth most failed state on earth and it would seem its leaders are hell bent on securing the number one slot - an honor it can add to their already dubious distinction as the world's largest incubator of jihadist extremism. Afghanistan will never see peace or prosperity with a neighbor like Pakistan and the U.S. will always be threatened by terrorist plots spawned in Pakistan's lawless regions - like the most recent Times Square bombing.

The most popular approach to fragmentation is to break off and allow Afghanistan to absorb Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) and the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), which would unite the Pashtun tribes. In addition, the provinces of Balochistan and Sindh would become independent sovereign states, leaving Punjab as a standalone entity.

Balkanization is based on the premise that the weak central government in Islamabad is incapable of governing Pakistan's frontiers, which have become the number one source of regional instability. The governing Punjabi elite have neglected the other three major ethnic groups - the Sindhis, Pashtuns, and Baluchis, primarily because a majority of Pakistan's budget is spent on the military rather than economic development, schooling or infrastructure. Only 2% of Pakistan's GDP, for example, is spent on education despite the fact Pakistan's literacy rate stands at 57%.

Minority groups have also been underrepresented in institutions such as Pakistan's military - which is the country's most powerful entity. Punjabis who represent 40% of the population constitute 90% of the armed forces. Pakistan's own history provides a prime case study of what happens when an ethnic group can no longer tolerate political and economic disregard. After a quarter century of strife the Bengalis rebelled, seceded and founded Bangladesh in 1971.

If the Balkanization solution is ever put in motion, accusations will surely fly that it's yet another example of U.S. imperialism and neoconservatism run amok. However, this would be a diplomatic and multilateral effort, plus, it is more about reversing the iniquities of British colonialism than it is building some new world order.

Inherent Instability

Pakistan's problems began when the British drew its boundaries haphazardly, which was primarily a product of incompetence and haste than maniacal design. According to an article in the New York Times last year, British colonial officer, Sir Cyril Radcliffe was given six weeks to carve a Muslim-majority state from British India although he had never even been there before. Radcliffe's private secretary was quoted as saying that Sir Cyril "was a bit flummoxed by the whole thing. It was a rather impossible assignment, really. To partition that subcontinent in six weeks was absurd." It would be a comical anecdote except for the fact that hundreds of thousands of people died in the ethnic cleansing that followed as a direct result of British carelessness.

Pakistan's border with Afghanistan - the poorly-marked Durand Line - had been drawn in 1893, also by the British, but it was never meant to be a long-term legally-binding boundary. The faux demarcation split the Pashtuns in half. By reinstating the original natural boundaries, Pakistan's western provinces would be returned to Afghanistan and the Pashtun tribes would be reunited. Such a move would also remove a strategic advantage for the Afghan Taliban, who can easily blend in amongst fellow Pashtuns on the Pakistani side of the border today.

The British did not only gift Pakistan with lethal boundaries, according to renowned Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid, Pakistan inherited a "security state" from British rule, described by scholars as "the viceregal tradition" or "a permanent state of martial law". Intellectual Christopher Hitchens asserted Pakistan has been a fiefdom of the military for most of its short existence. As was once said of Prussia: Pakistan is not a country that has an army, but an army that has a country. Hitchens also said the country was doomed to be a dysfunctional military theocracy from day one - beginning with the very name of the country itself:

But then, there is a certain hypocrisy inscribed in the very origins and nature of "Pakistan". The name is no more than an acronym, confected in the 1930s at Cambridge University by a NW Muslim propagandist named Chaudhri Rahmat Ali. It stands for Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, and Indus-Sind, plus the suffix "-stan," meaning "land." In the Urdu tongue, the resulting word means "Land of the Pure." The country is a cobbling together of regional, religious, and ethnic nationalisms, and its founding, in 1947, resulted in Pakistan's becoming, along with Israel, one of the two "faith-based" states to emerge from the partitionist policy of a dying British colonialism. Far from being a "Land of the Pure," Pakistan is one of the clearest demonstrations of the futility of defining a nation by religion, and one of the textbook failures of a state and a society.

Pakistan deteriorated throughout the decades because of its focus on building the military and developing Islamic extremist groups to use as weapons in their eternal obsessive struggle against India. It's true the U.S. helped Pakistan build these groups since the beginning of the Cold War, but America learned on 9/11 they had created a Frankenstein monster that now needed to be slain.

Many analysts have suggested India is less of a national security threat to Pakistan than its homegrown terrorist groups, many of which have openly declared their mission to topple the state, which would allow jihadists to secure nuclear materials. Yet, based on its strategic decision to foster extremism and its recent public support for Taliban rule in Afghanistan, it appears the biggest existential threat to Pakistan is its own political and military leaders.

The Last Straw

With that being said, Balkanization does seem like an extreme step at first blush, and perhaps Pakistan should be given another chance. Yet, after considering Pakistan's historic and current relationship with Al Qaeda - it becomes much easier to justify.

Since the war began in 2001 the U.S. has asked Pakistan to root out extremists from sanctuaries in a Rhode Island-sized area called North Waziristan, chief among them being the lethal Haqqani Network. However, Pakistan's army chief General Ashfaq Kayani asserted his forces were too bogged down fighting the Pakistani Taliban elsewhere in places like South Waziristan, Orakzai Agency and various districts across the NWFP.

I contacted an Afghan intelligence analyst about this and he assessed General Kayani's claim with one single word: rubbish. The Pakistan army consists of 500,000 active duty troops and another 500,000 on reserve. If Pakistan truly wanted to capture the Haqqani Network they would be able to drag them out of their caves by their beards within a few days.

In a movement that should have floored U.S. policymakers, Kayani was brazen enough to try and inveigle Afghanistan to strike a power-sharing arrangement with the Haqqanis. And Kayani, apparently the spokesperson for the Haqqani group, said they'd be willing to split from and denounce Al Qaeda, which is President Obama's primary rationale for the war. However, there is a higher probability of General Kayani converting to Hinduism than there is of the Haqqani Network ever being decoupled from Al Qaeda.

According to the Long War Journal, Siraj Haqqani, their leader, sits on Al Qaeda's decision-making body. Haqqani's friendship with Osama bin Laden dates back to the war against the Soviets in the 1980s and it was Haqqani that ensured safe passage into Pakistan for many Al Qaeda figures after the collapse of the Taliban in 2001. An Institute for the Study of War analysis concluded that Haqqani was "irreconcilable" and negotiations with him would actually strengthen Al Qaeda and would undermine the raison d'etre for U.S. involvement in Afghanistan over the past decade.

In other words, the Haqqani Network is Al Qaeda.

Pakistan has had a close relationship with the Haqqanis for over 30 years, who are still seen as a crucial anti-Indian asset. So, for nine years the Pakistanis protected the Haqqanis and claimed ignorance as to the whereabouts of Mullah Omar, Osama bin Laden and the Quetta Shura. Nine years, nearly $300 billion dollars and 1900 dead coalition soldiers later, the U.S. has officially verified that the entire war effort has been focused on the wrong side of the mountains.

A stable Afghanistan is in Pakistan's best interests, but this message has been preached time and again with little to no results, and the U.S. has waited long enough for Pakistan's leaders to uproot the extremists that orchestrated 9/11. But now, it appears as if the international community will have to do it for them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Satya_anveshi »

sum wrote:Pak cricket fans must have an Indian sponsor to get visa

>>Wow...unlimited visas and no cap on numbers! Truely Aman-ki-Asha in full flow.

>>Wonder what happens if the Indian sponsor turns out to be a resident ISI agent ( of whom there is no shortage in Desh)?
Sum ji, here are some implicit and explicit conditions:

- Some one must know Pukis(s) - a far cry for folks outside of the border areas and after 65 years of separation.
- They need to have mutual interest in Cricket or try to take a leap of opportunity...i.e., use cricket as purpose when it is actually not.
- go on record to associate their name with potential terrorist(s)
- spend money for a puki and take responsibility for not making him a burden on Indian tax payer
- and then be responsible for ensuring their exit out of the country

Sounds good to me if we indeed want to be seen as big bro being on the right side of past and future relationship (not necessarily present).

If you do indeed get a list of sponsors, that is whole lot manageable list to keep track of than not having this type information at all. And rest assured no foriegn spy will ever want to get on such short list but then we are talking of pukis :P .
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by chetak »

Satya_anveshi wrote:
sum wrote:Pak cricket fans must have an Indian sponsor to get visa

>>Wow...unlimited visas and no cap on numbers! Truely Aman-ki-Asha in full flow.

>>Wonder what happens if the Indian sponsor turns out to be a resident ISI agent ( of whom there is no shortage in Desh)?
Sum ji, here are some implicit and explicit conditions:

- Some one must know Pukis(s) - a far cry for folks outside of the border areas and after 65 years of separation.
- They need to have mutual interest in Cricket or try to take a leap of opportunity...i.e., use cricket as purpose when it is actually not.
- go on record to associate their name with potential terrorist(s)
- spend money for a puki and take responsibility for not making him a burden on Indian tax payer
- and then be responsible for ensuring their exit out of the country

Sounds good to me if we indeed want to be seen as big bro being on the right side of past and future relationship (not necessarily present).

If you do indeed get a list of sponsors, that is whole lot manageable list to keep track of than not having this type information at all. And rest assured no foriegn spy will ever want to get on such short list but then we are talking of pukis :P .

Plenty of pakis floating around in many Indian cities on legal visas.

But sponsors is a different kettle of fish.

The Indian sponsors will be legally liable for the conduct of the pakis that they sponsor.

Just wait and see the response. There will not be many takers on the Indian side when the "conditions" are made clear.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Satya_anveshi »

chetak wrote:Just wait and see the response. There will not be many takers on the Indian side when the "conditions" are made clear
Agree with you chetak ji. This is a DOA for "those" kind of activities.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by chetak »

Satya_anveshi wrote:
chetak wrote:Just wait and see the response. There will not be many takers on the Indian side when the "conditions" are made clear
Agree with you chetak ji. This is a DOA for "those" kind of activities.

Shinde seems to be mean business.

rehman malik's visit towards the 3rd week of Nov will also be unsucccessful as he has been asked to bring the 26/11 voice samples. That's why im the dim is so visible on our DDM of late. They are not taking any chances :lol:

Nice.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by arun »

Government owned press agency of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s “deeper than oceans” and “higher than Himalaya’s” friend , the Peoples Republic of China, publicises the surging violence in the Islamic Republic’s commercial capital of Karachi over the last two days:

82 killed in Pakistan's Karachi over last two days
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Samudragupta »

Shia's are hitting back in Karachi....there is an open war between the ISO and the ASWJ...141 Shias were killed by the Sunnat brigade and in retaliation ISO have killed 66 ASWJ cadres...ISO Shia students organisation is out of control of its leaders and mostly Quds have infiltrated the top hierarchy....the plan is to create an Amal out of ISO....Karachi is be the new Beirut...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by negi »

The bright bulbs here and elsewhere who argue on the lines of logic like "oh this is just normal chai biskoot, we have never ceded territory in the past so what is the basis for doubting MMS's intentions ?" basically have completely lost it, arrey baba if there is not much to be read into the treaty then why burn public exchequer's money and fly all the way to toilet of the world and sign the piece of toilet paper , either ways he comes out as an idiot onlee , no? Why doesn't the Mr. Integrity fly to NE and fckn spend that money on some infra there ? We are obsessed with TSP but hey that is because our PM doesn't get proper sleep unless he gets a tight hug every 6 months or so from SOBs on the otherside, why can't these asshole$ put their head down and work towards addressing more important issues which country is facing rather than waste time on the who$e nextdoor ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Anujan »

This is a shia vs sunni thing in Karachi? It is truly difficult to keep track of such things.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Mahendra »

Karachi is be the new Beirut...
Mogadishu-you mean Beirut has its share of reasonable people who want nothing to do with war of purity. In Krachi only the purest may survive. More power to all factions so that they fight each-other till the last hijda
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Satya_anveshi »

yup..meant to bost in benis dhaga
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 11 Nov 2012 23:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Mahendra »

del
Last edited by Mahendra on 12 Nov 2012 00:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RamaY »

negi wrote:The bright bulbs here and elsewhere who argue on the lines of logic like "oh this is just normal chai biskoot, we have never ceded territory in the past so what is the basis for doubting MMS's intentions ?" basically have completely lost it, arrey baba if there is not much to be read into the treaty then why burn public exchequer's money and fly all the way to toilet of the world and sign the piece of toilet paper , either ways he comes out as an idiot onlee , no? Why doesn't the Mr. Integrity fly to NE and fckn spend that money on some infra there ? We are obsessed with TSP but hey that is because our PM doesn't get proper sleep unless he gets a tight hug every 6 months or so from SOBs on the otherside, why can't these asshole$ put their head down and work towards addressing more important issues which country is facing rather than waste time on the who$e nextdoor ?
I see lot of sarcasm here. I also sense an accusation of treason by unmentioned people. Be warned of Kapil Sibals of this forum who are agents of prevention of vice and protection of harem.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Anujan »

Here is an article from Wired about Petraeus
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11 ... us-cult-2/

Remember the time when everyone in massa (2007 I think) was crowing about how Petraeus had invented something called "Counterinsurgency" which was this brilliant concept about not hurting civilians and it was his contribution to modern notion of warfighting? The Jingos here had wondered "Whats up with what? IA has been doing it in JK for god knows how many years".

Now the talking heads in the press, after Petraeus' downfall, are coming together to declare "Maybe he is not all that great". His departure might influence the Afghan war in a very basic way.

People are coming to the realization that they cannot kill their way out. Either they can stay and remain in force in Afghanistan -- or they can solve the origin of the problems -- in Pakistan. Interesting times ahead.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Samudragupta »

Americans are realizing after more than a decade that they are in fact a conventional fighting force and not a counterinsurgency hence focusing back to their traditional role through the Pivot....they will not commit any further in Afghanistan neither they will be interested in Pakistan...they are looking for a proxy in the region....
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RamaY »

The trillion $ question, is it wrong to "pretend/portray" that you are proxy of Power-A if the short-term activity is in your long-term interests? Is it wrong to "cut your teeth" at A's cost?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by AbhiJ »

Afghan National Army sends 4 Pakistani Mujra Mohammaedians to Jannat
Four people were killed in the Narai area of South Waziristan on Sunday when mortar shells were fired by members of the Afghan National Army.
According to a senior security forces official, mortar shells were fired from the KK Top check post in Afghanistan, which hit a vehicle carrying four passengers, killing them on the spot.
The identities of the dead could not be ascertained until the filing of this story.
According to military sources, Pakistan has condemned the incident.
Earlier on November 8, a woman was killed and a man injured ho when mortar shells fired by coalition forces from across the border in Afghanistan landed onuses in the Datta Khel tehsil of North Waziristan Agency.
Last edited by AbhiJ on 12 Nov 2012 00:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by negi »

RamaY wrote: I see lot of sarcasm here.
There was no sarcasm there, I am merely questioning the often repeated last line of argument used by people to defend the indefensible.
I also sense an accusation of treason by unmentioned people.
Not treason, lunacy perhaps would be a better word for former you actually need to be a 'capable' person in the first place.
Be warned of Kapil Sibals of this forum who are agents of prevention of vice and protection of harem.
Kya ukhaad lenge ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RamaY »

negi wrote:
I also sense an accusation of treason by unmentioned people.
Not treason, lunacy perhaps would be a better word for former you actually need to be a 'capable' person in the first place.
:rotfl:

why can't I be so smart :(( :((
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Anujan »

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns- ... 0909.story
Pakistan urges all Afghan insurgents to pursue peace: ambassador
Pakistan hopes to persuade Afghan insurgent groups, including the lethal Haqqani network, to pursue peace but worries resistance from political factions opposed to the Taliban could undermine reconciliation efforts, Islamabad's ambassador said.
Reminded me of this article written 13 years back! Thanks to googal chacha, was able to look it up
http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19 ... 06066.html
Pakistan Foreign Minister Sartaj Aziz today said some progress on the Kashmir issue was needed to persuade the militants to withdraw. ``If the mujahideen or the freedom fighters, as we call them, are going to be persuaded to withdraw, then they obviously would do so if the world is paying some attention to their concerns and their right of self-determination,'' he said, speaking in Washington.
Pakistan seems to be good at "persuading" terrorists. To whom they offer only moral, political and diplomatic support.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Prem »

SBajwa wrote:
by Krisna
TSP -- convert or your daughter is raped
Krisna that should be your Dharma to save the Dharmic girls from the Adharmic land as told by Sri Krishna!!A single Arabian Christian Reverend can do while 500 million Hindus (who have no will to fight) next door watch? Isn't that cowardice?
For this, Dharma followers must have political power. GOI is secular and only Muslims have the first right over Indian resources as per our PM. Indian Sarkar is even sending the escaping Hindus back to Pakistan to face these very Islamic goons and not allowing them to stay in India. The advise of Bappu and dream of Nehru call for Hindus to light fire to their own pyre.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by pentaiah »

Anujan wrote:Here is an article from Wired about Petraeus
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11 ... us-cult-2/

Remember the time when everyone in massa (2007 I think) was crowing about how Petraeus had invented something called "Counterinsurgency" which was this brilliant concept about not hurting civilians and it was his contribution to modern notion of warfighting? The Jingos here had wondered "Whats up with what? IA has been doing it in JK for god knows how many years".

Now the talking heads in the press, after Petraeus' downfall, are coming together to declare "Maybe he is not all that great". His departure might influence the Afghan war in a very basic way.

People are coming to the realization that they cannot kill their way out. Either they can stay and remain in force in Afghanistan -- or they can solve the origin of the problems -- in Pakistan. Interesting times ahead.

If you read all CIA manuals from right to left and start from last page first (like my dad used to read Blitz news paper in 1960s)
Then you have read all Counter Intelligence Articles
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by SSridhar »

Anujan wrote:Pakistan seems to be good at "persuading" terrorists. To whom they offer only moral, political and diplomatic support.
In his meeting with Governor General Mountbatten in Lahore on November 1, 1947, Jinnah promised to 'persuade' the marauding tribesmen from NWFP to pull back if the Indian troops were also withdrawn, thus inadvertently admitting to who exactly was behind the invasion of the ‘non-state actors’.

In Pakistan, persuasion is admission of guilt.

It would be interesting to know how exactly the PA conveys its orders to the MEA and how consultation takes place between the PA and the MEA bureaucrats. Just having a pliant Foreign Minister is not enough because the MEA has to be micro-managed on the whole gamut of issues while presenting the facade of civilian control.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by abhijitm »

Pakis are real nuts. They are not realising this Malala day is the biggest humiliation to pakistan. Evrery year the world going to celebrate, and remind pakistan of the true colour of their society. Malala is a symbol of paki violence, radicalisation, suppression, discrimination and a failed society. I am totally in for Malala day.
shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by shiv »

abhijitm wrote: Malala is a symbol of paki violence, radicalisation, suppression, discrimination and a failed society. I am totally in for Malala day.
That is a very secular statement to make.

Malala is a symbol of what Islam says about women and the fact that she was shot in Pakistan and the shooters go scot free shows that Pakistan is a true protector of Islam.

If Malala's shooting was wrong then Islam is wrong. The Taliban who live and breathe Islam would dispute this, as would every Pakistani.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Agnimitra »

This Malala Day tamasha comes in the context of a "refactoring" of Paki Islamism. The "bad Talibs" are being stigmatized as Kharijites. Ttalking heads leading televised discussions about how this is a false iteration and not the true Islam.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by kenop »

Two items in the news make me think that the coming visit of Rehman Malik is being prepared for rather seriously
# Voice samples for 26/11 investigations will be available
# In the Lawhore court, LeT was mentioned as being behind 26/11
Times Now just reported "Sarabjit to be released" as another petitions has been filed on his behalf (coming in the wake of the visit of the deputy chief minister (Punjab) Badal to Pukistan).
Wonder if any of these will be traded by Pukistan to get MMS to Pakistan and sign the reported/proposed Kargil Siachin agreement. There is no news of his plans to visit, but who knows if it will be declared at the end of the Malik visit.
In the best case scenario it will be Paki SOP for any interactions with the other party.
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Edited
Last edited by kenop on 12 Nov 2012 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
SSridhar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by SSridhar »

kenop wrote:Wonder if any of these will be traded by Pukistan to get MMS to Pakistan and sign the reported/proposed Kargil {Did you mean Siachen ?) agreement. There is no news of his plans to visit, but who knows if it will be declared at the end of the Malik visit.
kenop, my sense is that far-reaching developments have taken place between India & TSP under American management and these will be realized at appropriate times. The US is the proverbial Judge monkey mediating between the two cats over a piece of bread.

The real tussle, IMHO, is to see how to setup a facade of cooperating with the Americans thereby extracting maximum concessions from them even while doing everything to turn the situation totally to one's own advantage. The Pakistanis are past masters in this fine art having been at it for sixty years now. We normally do not resort to such 'lowly' tactics.

The promise of voice samples or the talk of altering the law to get voice samples without the consent of the accused are all purely contextual where the hints of concession are given to extract concessions from both the US and India. Voice samples were promised almost two years back to get P. Chidambaram attend the SAARC meeting in Islamabad. I am convinced that TSP will not be able to give us even pre-recorded voice samples of Lakhvi et al. The Pakistani judiciary will put a stop to that. There is a huge drama being enacted by the Pakistani lawyers, judiciary, prosecution, and the Government complementing each other as far as 26/11 goes.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by kenop »

On the forum people have made confident statements that land will not be traded under any condition. Hope that is the way it turns out to be.
The way Pakistan makes conciliatory noises just before visits (in either direction), seems to escape the people who matter. Maybe something deeply chanikian there.
Just a week plus to go. Let us see what else is pulled out of the bag to woo the evil baniays.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by kenop »

Sympathy for Sandy among Pakistan's forgotten flood victims
MIRALI, Pakistan — While the United States recovers from superstorm Sandy, away from the glare of the international media, five million Pakistanis are struggling to get by in the country's third successive year of massive floods.
NGOs are warning that more help is needed, and quickly, and Wahab Pandhrani, who heads local aid group Pirbhat said Islamabad had let its people down by not appealing for foreign assistance.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Suppiah »

SSridhar wrote: kenop, my sense is that far-reaching developments have taken place between India & TSP under American management and these will be realized at appropriate times. The US is the proverbial Judge monkey mediating between the two cats over a piece of bread. .
Looks as if there are two camps working for piss : the leftist camp that wants peace on Beijing set terms and the unkil one on his terms...both of course want to preserve TSPA ability to engage in terror as it keeps Delhi on tight leash. Both collaborate when common purpose is to be achieved.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by rkirankr »

shiv wrote:
abhijitm wrote: Malala is a symbol of paki violence, radicalisation, suppression, discrimination and a failed society. I am totally in for Malala day.
That is a very secular statement to make.

Malala is a symbol of what Islam says about women and the fact that she was shot in Pakistan and the shooters go scot free shows that Pakistan is a true protector of Islam.

If Malala's shooting was wrong then Islam is wrong. The Taliban who live and breathe Islam would dispute this, as would every Pakistani.
I agree. How can a country found on principles of Islam support a Malala day. Other than what you say above , I think deifying a person especially a living person is wrong as per Islam. On top of that naming a day created by Allah for another creation of Allah(Malala) is against Islam. Is Pakistan losing its reason for existing?
Last edited by rkirankr on 12 Nov 2012 18:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by anupmisra »

chetak wrote:Plenty of pakis floating around in many Indian cities on legal visas. But sponsors is a different kettle of fish. The Indian sponsors will be legally liable for the conduct of the pakis that they sponsor. Just wait and see the response. There will not be many takers on the Indian side when the "conditions" are made clear.
All it takes is one turn coat to sponsor one of his jehadi relatives from the other side. Perhaps a condition should be made that both the sponsor and the person sponsored must be together at all times starting from Wagah.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Brad Goodman »

Is Pakistan media stoking anti-China feelings?
As a new generation of leaders is set to assume power in China, an influential state-run daily on Monday highlighted anti-China protests in Pakistan, regarded as an "all-weather ally" of Beijing and blamed Pakistani media for stoking anti-China feelings.

Written by a Pakistani scholar, an article in the Global Times said the recent protests in Karachi against the development of a mega city project funded by Chinese companies is "being highlighted as a symbol of anti-China sentiments inside Pakistan". "However, the reality is entirely different from what is being portrayed in media reports," the article said.

"Unfortunately, it is all being portrayed wrongly in the media. There are few people who are against Chinese investment in Pakistan, and they don't have a say in decision-making arenas," it said.
The criticism was mainly because the locals were concerned that they may not get enough opportunities. The rare article about anti-China protests were carried by Global Times coinciding with the ongoing Congress of the ruling Communist Party during which a new set of leaders to succeed President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao are to be selected.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by anupmisra »

Pakistan lodges protest with Afghan envoy over cross border shelling

If it has any strategic sense, Afghanistan should deny that there was any "cross-border" shelling. Its a line (Durand Line) and not a border. So "cross-border" issue does not arise.
chetak
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by chetak »

anupmisra wrote:
chetak wrote:Plenty of pakis floating around in many Indian cities on legal visas. But sponsors is a different kettle of fish. The Indian sponsors will be legally liable for the conduct of the pakis that they sponsor. Just wait and see the response. There will not be many takers on the Indian side when the "conditions" are made clear.
All it takes is one turn coat to sponsor one of his jehadi relatives from the other side. Perhaps a condition should be made that both the sponsor and the person spe onsored must be together at all times starting from Wagah.

The visa will be confirmed only when the positive identification and verification of the sponsor takes place.

The GOI has made it's intentions very clear and unmistakable. The relatives will also be made aware that such a sponsorship has taken place by the cops and probably the neighbours too when verifications take place. :) So, many people will be watching.

Which ever city that the jehadi goes he/she has to have a sponsor in that very city itself. Multiple cities--multiple sponsors
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