Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Locked
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

Indian Ocean cannot be backyard of India: China - PTI, Economic Times
China recognises India's special role in stabilising the strategic Indian Ocean region but the perception that it is India's "backyard" may result in clashes, Chinese military officials and experts have cautioned.

"The word backyard is not very appropriate to use for an open sea and international areas of sea," Senior Captain Zhao Yi, Associate Professor of the Institute of Strategy in China's National Defence University, said during a rare candid interaction with the resident Indian journalists here and a visiting Indian media delegation.

"I admit geographically speaking India has a special role to play in stabilising Indian Ocean and the South Asian region," he said
while replying to a question on rising concerns in India over the Chinese navy's increasing forays into the Indian Ocean.

If the India views the Indian Ocean as backyard then how the navies from United States, Russia and Australia have free navigation in the Indian Ocean, he asked.

Citing the observations of a US researcher who predicted that Indian Ocean could be the focus of 21st century and as a result severe clashes could breakout, Capt Zhao said though he did not agree with American scholar such a possibility cannot be "eliminated" if the Indian Ocean is continued to be perceived as India's backyard..

Chinese navy's increasing presence in the Indian Ocean comes in the background of the release of a White Paper published by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) recently, outlining a new military strategy enhancing its navy's duties for the first time to "open seas protection" far from its shores.

Also the presence of Chinese submarines at Colombo port last year and most recently in Karachi sparked concerns in India.

The interaction between the Indian media and a team of Chinese military experts headed by Spokesman of the Chinese Defence Ministry, Senior Colonel Yang Yujun, arranged by the All China Journalists Association was aimed at promoting better understanding between the two countries as they seek to forge closer political, military and trade ties.

Elaborating on PLA Navy's activities in Indian Ocean, Zhang Wei, Researcher of the PLA Navy Academic Institute, said since 1985, Chinese navy ships visited lot of countries in the Indian Ocean region including India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Pakistan.

More Chinese ships are crossing the Indian Ocean as it has become a major pipeline for trade for China, she said.

Also Chinese navy's presence there is to protect the security of sea lines specially against piracy. The PLA navy provided escort services to over 6,000 ships in Gulf of Aden half of them were foreign vessels, Zhang said.

"So I do not agree that the presence of Chinese naval ship is expansion of the Chinese military," Zhang said.

"The Chinese government has been very prudent in handling PLA navy's navigation to the Indian ocean. Most of time our submarines go to Indian Ocean, we diplomatically inform our neighbouring countries. We should enhance cooperation in order to enhance mutual trust at the level of military and government. By conducting trainings and mutual visits, mutual trust can be gained," she said.

On the Malabar Exercises involving navies of India, the US, Japan and Australia, Spokesman Yang said the exercises should be conducive to the region and should not violate interest of any third party.

On the establishment of Air Defence Identification Zone, (ADIZ) in the disputed South China Sea Senior Colonel Yang Yujie, Director, PLA Air Force Command, said China did not properly convey its message of imposing in ADIZ in East China Sea when it was imposed in 2013.

Misunderstandings about Chinese ADIZ persisted even though more than 20 countries have imposed their own ADIZs.

While when to establish ADIZ in SCS is in the scope of China's sovereign right, the situation in SCS at present is stable, Yang said.

"We have the confidence and willingness to maintain stability and peace in SCS. That is why we did not come up with the decision to establish ADIZ in SCS," she said.

China claims sovereignty over most of the SCS which is disputed by Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.
panduranghari
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3781
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by panduranghari »

Kevin Rudd, the ex PM of Australia, in a Council for Foreign Relations talk was very forthright about the Chinese threat. But he did say due to the absence of a clear policy - like US-Japan or US-Indonesia defence treaty - there is a likelihood of being caught off guard if China invades Taiwan (for eg.). Of course ombaba has already stated recently that US accepts Chinese interests in Taiwan but if China invades Taiwan, they will come to the defence of Taiwan.

Does India need such a treaty with either Japan and/or Australia? Will it be counter productive?
vijaykarthik
BRFite
Posts: 1169
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by vijaykarthik »

If anything, I will recommend a clear bilateral deal with the Ruskies. Agreed that they are a bit backward in the current generation when the world is looking really westward. But that's precisely the point that makes it compelling for India to not forget the past and the East.

A clear deal that will help out in times of extreme need. Once that's settled, everything else will become a tad easier. india naturally has lots of commonalities with the West / Aus / Japan on trade / technology / human resources etc. That will help in feeding the nations off each other. For a big stick, currently Russia seems like a great bet except that it also appears as if the Russians are upset with India and slowly not taking us as seriously as we were say about 15 years ago. And that might come back to bite us yet.
Pulikeshi
BRFite
Posts: 1513
Joined: 31 Oct 2002 12:31
Location: Badami

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Pulikeshi »

SSridhar wrote:Indian Ocean cannot be backyard of India: China - PTI, Economic Times
Bhere is the Confucion?
Indian Ocean is India's frontyard onlee! :mrgreen:
vijaykarthik
BRFite
Posts: 1169
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by vijaykarthik »

On closer scrutiny: Notice all the idiocy and how he answers in riddles and covers himself in webs
Citing the observations of a US researcher who predicted that Indian Ocean could be the focus of 21st century and as a result severe clashes could breakout, Capt Zhao said though he did not agree with American scholar such a possibility cannot be "eliminated" if the Indian Ocean is continued to be perceived as India's backyard..
Notice the usage of a double negative. And he got the implication wrong. The American scholar predicts the possibility. And the Capt disagrees with the prediction and says it can be eliminated? Or cannot be eliminated or what exactly? I think he is perhaps perturbed.
"So I do not agree that the presence of Chinese naval ship is expansion of the Chinese military," Zhang said.
Huh? What else is it supposed to mean if there is a presence of a naval asset?
On the Malabar Exercises involving navies of India, the US, Japan and Australia, Spokesman Yang said the exercises should be conducive to the region and should not violate interest of any third party.
Lots of questions: Which third party? Why a third party and so on. Doesn't China famously speak about an exclusive bilateral reln for solving stuff. Why should countries deal with a third party mindset at all. I don't see China doing the same. So why bother?
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

No Chinese Troops in Pakistani Kashmir, Says Beijing - New Indian Express
China has denied any of its armed personnel were posted in Pakistani Kashmir, stating that these were "just stories".

A senior leader in charge of bilateral relations with India and Pakistan said that with modern technology and satellites no troops could remain undetected anywhere.

"Even 5,000 ants cannot hide from being seeing," Deputy Diretor-General of Department of Asian Affairs at the foreign minister, Huang Xilian said here.


Xilian recently return from Kathmandu after attending the conference on reconstruction with China's foreign minister. India's External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj was also there. The two ministers met at the sidelines of the donor conference.

The DDG, who was meeting visiting Indian journalists and those based in Beijing, said that any mention of armed forces in the region (Pakistani Kashmir) "was groundless". India had "very good spy satellites", so where could the troops hide, he asked. "Show us the evidence," he added.

He was responding to a question about comments made by senior army personnel in India on the presence of Chinese troops in the disputed area. He said perhaps the construction workers in uniform were "mistaken" for Chinese armed men. He said China always hoped that such comments were made only "after checking facts".

Responding to another question, Xilian said that China was aware of the concern shown by India on construction activities in the region. "But these are only commercial ventures" which had been going on for years. "There's nothing new there," {Xilian, do you think we are fools when you make such not-even-clever-by-half statements?} he said.
The government of China had no activity of military or other kind in the region.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

Modi positive about China-Nepal-India corridor, Chinese official says - Saibal Dasgupta, ToI
China has revealed that Prime Minister Narendra Modi has responded "positively" to its proposal to build an economic corridor, which include road and rail links, connecting three countries~China, Nepal and India.

This is besides the China backed program, Bangladesh-China-India-Myanmar (BCIM) with road and sea linkages starting from the Chinese city of Kunming. China recently opened up a new route for Indian pilgrims visiting Mansarovar in Tibet from the Nathu La border.

The corridor through Nepal was discussed during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to China last March, according to Huang Xilian, deputy director general of the Asian Affairs departs of the Chinese foreign ministry.

"This will be a major initiative in promoting connectivity in this region, especially between our three countries and help our common neighbor Nepal. We were happy that it was also positively received by Prime Minister Modi," Huang said.

On its part, New Delhi has taken the stance that it is open to new economic ideas but will take decisions based on its national interest criteria, sources in the ministry of external affairs said. Besides, there are military issues involved in opening up several borders at the same time, sources said.

Huang said that the plan was discussed again last month during the recent meeting between external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj and her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on the sidelines of an international conference on Nepal reconstruction in Kathmandu.

"The two ministers had further discussion on this topic and reached consensus. We need to work together for the process of reconstruction of Nepal and we need to setup a joint study group to explore the feasibility of the Corridor," said Huang, he said.

This could be part of China's plans to further develop its Tibet region, and recover the cost in building the proposal railway line linking Tibet to Nepal. Movement of goods manufactured in China's southern region for the Indian market can spur growth in the Tibetan region, sources said.

"The construction of this railway will help to materialize a dream. We need to have a feasibility study on it. We need to have consultations among the three. If India shows some interest we can respond positively," he told Indian journalists.

"We are ready to set up study group for economic corridor. If we can reach an agreement on feasibility we are ready to push forward it as it will bring benefit to the three countries," he said.

The Chinese enthusiasm is driven by a strong desire to find Indian market for China-made goods at a time when sales of Chinese goods is sliding in the western world. Besides, India has more buying muscle than all other South Asian countries put together.

"China floated the idea for India's and Nepal's consideration. Our impression is both countries are positive on this initiative and we are ready to set up study groups on feasibility for such a corridor," Huang, the points man for India in the Chinese foreign ministry said.

"If we can reach an agreement on feasibility of such an economic corridor, we are willing to push forward this initiative and we believe it will bring benefits," he said
.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

China offers dialogue with India on Lakhvi - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
China has offered to discuss its move with India to block action against the alleged Mumbai terror attack mastermind Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi, marking a subtle shift in position, which could deepen the counter-terror dialogue between New Delhi and Beijing.

“We need to have further discussion and conversation so that we can have better understanding and can work closely on it. We are ready to do that. We have a mechanism of counter- terrorism consultation between the two ministries” in which it can be discussed, said Huang Xiliang, Deputy Director General of the Asian Affairs Department of the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

U.N. move

The Sino-Indian meeting under the counter-terrorism mechanism is expected later this year. India had earlier approached the U.N. Sanctions Committee and had requested a clarification from Pakistan about Mr. Lakhvi’s release.

China, which has special ties with Pakistan, had blocked the move, citing lack of information from the Indian side on this issue.
vijaykarthik
BRFite
Posts: 1169
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by vijaykarthik »

^ yet another example of their duplicity. They will want to talk and Indian GoI will fall for it and talk. And then there will be a statement saying that China deeply regards the Indian viewpoint and that's about it. Next time we move to get Lakhvi and it will get rejected.

Lets allow the GoI to talk though.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Philip »

"Never believe what the Chinese say,watch what they do".

If China can arrogatantly say that the IOR is not India's ocean,then the same holds good for the ...."Indo-China Sea"! Several smaller nations contest China's outrageous claims. we should stay quiet and accelerate Indo-Vietnamese defence mil-cooperation with the setting up of an Indian naval/air base /permanent facilities there,justa s the Chinese plan to od at Gwadar.What's "sauce for the goose is also sauce for the Beijing Duck"!
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

China and Japan are getting on better, but how long will it last? - Japan Times
After more than two years of tensions, Chinese President Xi Jinping is making a careful rapprochement with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who has long called for improved ties. Whether it lasts depends much on what Abe says in August about his country’s wartime past.

A number of factors have spurred the shift. China’s economic growth is slowing while Japan, a big investor, is sending less money in. And Xi has consolidated enough power within the Communist Party and military to take a softer stance on a longtime foe with less risk of a backlash at home.

The ramifications are potentially significant. Lowering tensions will provide room for a pickup in trade and investment. China and Japan may work more closely to contain the rogue regime of North Korea. It could also limit the friction between China and the U.S. — a key ally of Japan that’s obliged to defend it in the event of a conflict.

The next test will come in August when Abe issues a statement to mark the 70th anniversary of World War II. He has said he stands by, but won’t repeat, past apologies. Whether that is enough for China — a country Japan invaded — is open for debate, though Abe also avoided a direct apology in a speech in Jakarta and still sat down with Xi shortly afterward.

“Things have got considerably better,” said Wang Xueping, an associate professor at Toyo University in Tokyo. “In particular, rather than the Japanese side, we can see a softening of the Xi administration’s policy toward the Japanese government,” she said. “The Xi administration’s policy toward Japan had been rigid, but recently they have begun to treat the Japanese government and the people separately.”

While China and Japan have often been troubled neighbors, ties soured badly in 2012 over disputed islands in the East China Sea to the point it affected trade. Abe compounded tensions by visiting Yasukuni Shrine, which honors Japan’s war dead, as well as World War II Class-A war criminals. For its part, China in late 2013 announced an East China Sea air defense identification zone and repeatedly criticized Abe’s plan to expand the remit of Japan’s military.

The current detente follows months of behind-the-scenes negotiations and a flurry of lower-level meetings.

A frosty November handshake between Abe and Xi on the sidelines of an Asia-Pacific leaders meeting in Beijing marked the first public step to mending the rupture. They had a friendlier meeting in April in Jakarta, and in June their finance ministers held the first formal summit in several years.

“In the summer last year the Chinese government actually changed its strategy toward Japan,” said Yuichi Hosoya, a professor of international politics at Keio University in Tokyo who has served on security advisory panels for Abe. “The Chinese government understood it was impossible to fully separate politics from the economy.”

If a lasting reconciliation is established, the benefit may show in the economy. Trade between China and Japan slumped 6 percent to $343 billion in 2013 and stagnated in 2014. China’s economy meanwhile is growing at its weakest pace in 24 years: expansion slowed to 7.4 percent in 2014.

Japanese investment in China declined nearly 40 percent last year, having fallen since 2012 {this is what India must tap and that wouldbe a double whammy for China} when Japan’s purchase of three of the East China Sea islets from a private citizen prompted riots in China targeting Japanese businesses.

As part of the attempt to repair the economic damage, Toshihiro Nikai, chairman of the general council of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, led a 3,000-strong delegation of lawmakers, officials and businesspeople to China in May.

The backdrop to the tensions has been two leaders seeking to fan nationalism at home. Abe is looking to restore Japanese pride. Xi has talked often of China’s “peaceful rise” as a great power that should play a bigger role in global affairs. He has two ambitious “Silk Road” trading routes — one over land, one by sea — to build out via ports, roads and railways to the Middle East and Europe.

He also has tensions in the South China Sea to manage as China asserts its claims in the contested waters, and the potential for a stretched military, given its dispute in the East China Sea. As the heat has risen in the South China Sea it has cooled somewhat farther north, and Japan and China are expected as soon as this month to sign off on a mechanism for maritime and air communication to avoid mishaps.

Domestic politics is giving Xi more room to maneuver on Japan. In the first 18 months of his rule he rebuffed Abe’s calls for a summit as he focused on consolidating power at home.

Xi has now made himself chairman of an unprecedented seven policymaking committees; launched an anti-corruption campaign that reached into the highest levels of the political and military establishment; and unleashed a blizzard of reforms to support the economy and with it the legitimacy of the party.

“You can see from the corruption cases in the Communist Party, Xi is finally in full control of the party and the PLA,” said Keio University’s Hosoya, referring to the People’s Liberation Army. “Xi is extremely pragmatic and fully understands the importance of having a good relationship with Japan, but actually he couldn’t until last November.”

The U.S. has played a role. President Barack Obama in his visit to Japan last year affirmed the U.S. would protect the East China Sea islets. “In 2014 we saw clear signaling from the U.S. showcasing resolve vis-a-vis China,” said Giulio Pugliese, an assistant professor at the University of Heidelberg’s Institute of Chinese Studies.

Still, even if Abe’s August statement avoids fanning controversy, ties are not necessarily on a sustainable longer-term footing.

“Bilateral ties won’t deteriorate more, but wouldn’t improve too much either,” said Su Zhiliang, a history professor at Shanghai Normal University. “The adversarial nature of their positions on the core issues will exist in the long term.”

Jiang Lifeng, a research fellow at the Institute of Japanese Studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing, doesn’t expect a major improvement in the relationship.

“China hasn’t made any policy changes, neither has Japan,” he said. “All the exchanges were merely scratching the surface.”
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by RajeshA »

Philip wrote:"Never believe what the Chinese say,watch what they do".

If China can arrogatantly say that the IOR is not India's ocean,then the same holds good for the ...."Indo-China Sea"! Several smaller nations contest China's outrageous claims. we should stay quiet and accelerate Indo-Vietnamese defence mil-cooperation with the setting up of an Indian naval/air base /permanent facilities there,justa s the Chinese plan to od at Gwadar.What's "sauce for the goose is also sauce for the Beijing Duck"!
What is it with the sauce and geese?

Indian Ocean is called Indian Ocean simply because every country on the Indian Ocean has been touched by the Vedic or Buddhist influences or have been founded by Indic kings. Indian Ocean is the ocean where Bharatiya culture has churned and brought out glorious subcultures.

The Chinese on the other hand, have limited claims on "their" neighboring seas, leave alone oceans. It is questionable whether the awkward "South-China Sea" should be called "Indo-China Sea", giving the Chinese even some notional civilizational claim to the sea, or rather simply "Champa Sea", as would be appropriate going by its history.
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13612
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by A_Gupta »

Not sure whether this fits on this thread, a thread for Turkey, or for Islamophobia?
http://dailytimes.com.pk/foreign/05-Jul ... a-protests
China warned its citizens travelling in Turkey to be careful of anti-Beijing protests, warning them that some Chinese tourists have recently been "attacked and disturbed".

The notice, posted on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website on Sunday, said that there have recently been "multiple" demonstrations in Turkey targeting the Chinese government. "Absolutely do not get close to or film the protests, and minimize to the greatest extent outside activities on one's own," the notice said.

The notice gave no details regarding the protests, but comes after Turkey's government expressed concern about reports that Muslim Uighur people in China's far western region of Xinjiang had been banned from worship and fasting during the holy month of Ramadan.

Turkey also vowed on Friday to keep its doors open to ethnic Uighur migrants fleeing persecution in China, a stance likely to exacerbate Ankara's row with Beijing over its treatment of the Turkic-language speaking minority.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

Thousands rally for the cause of peace between India & China
The hot weather did not deter thousands of Chennaiites from converging for a cause: peace between India and China.

A large number of people, including children, took part in the Chennai 2 China peace campaign at MCC Higher Secondary School in Chetpet, on Sunday.

Rajiv Ninan, convenor, DCube (Dawn to Dusk Drivers), which organised the event, said that as part of the campaign, a group of 16 people will leave in cars from the city on July 26 to the China border, covering more than 9,000 kilometres in the process. During the journey, they will be collecting signatures from residents of various States. The peace campaign will come to an end with the handing over of the signature book to the Chinese Ambassador on August 15.

Prince of Arcot Nawab Mohammed Abdul Ali, who took part in the signature campaign, said the slogan ‘Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai’ is still relevant in the present circumstances. Grace George, chairperson, Alpha Group of Institutions, also participated in the event.
Do we cry or laugh?
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

A_Gupta wrote:The notice gave no details regarding the protests, but comes after Turkey's government expressed concern about reports that Muslim Uighur people in China's far western region of Xinjiang had been banned from worship and fasting during the holy month of Ramadan.

Turkey also vowed on Friday to keep its doors open to ethnic Uighur migrants fleeing persecution in China, a stance likely to exacerbate Ankara's row with Beijing over its treatment of the Turkic-language speaking minority.
Pakistan looks up to Turkey for everything, or at least that's what it claims. It wants to emulate Turkey, it says. But, Pakistan supports the harsh Chinese stand in Uyghuristan. How?
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13612
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by A_Gupta »

While this might better belong in some other thread, putting this here because of China:
MUMBAI: A cash strapped Maharashtra government which was struggling to seek investment to execute the Rs. 11,000 crore 22 Km Mumbai Trans-harbour Sea Link from Mumbai to Navi Mumbai has suddenly received a shot in the arm as it has now four countries vying to finance and build the project. While Maharashtra had initially approached Japan International Co-operation Agency (JICA), the Chinese government also evinced interest in financing the project when Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis visite ..

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by RajeshA »

SSridhar wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:The notice gave no details regarding the protests, but comes after Turkey's government expressed concern about reports that Muslim Uighur people in China's far western region of Xinjiang had been banned from worship and fasting during the holy month of Ramadan.

Turkey also vowed on Friday to keep its doors open to ethnic Uighur migrants fleeing persecution in China, a stance likely to exacerbate Ankara's row with Beijing over its treatment of the Turkic-language speaking minority.
Pakistan looks up to Turkey for everything, or at least that's what it claims. It wants to emulate Turkey, it says. But, Pakistan supports the harsh Chinese stand in Uyghuristan. How?
During the Uygur uprising a few years back, after a little noise, even the Turkish government was okay with the measures taken by Chinese govt.
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13612
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by A_Gupta »

Chinese manufacturing in India:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busine ... 34841.html
Chinese smartphone maker Vivo will start assembling its devices in India by October this year at its Greater Noida facility. The company, which introduced its first handset in the India in December last year is also aiming to sell about two million smartphones in the country, this year. "We are pleased to enter the Indian market. Assembly will start in our India facility in October this year. Looking at the growth prospects, we plan to start research and manufacturing at a later stage," Vivo Global CMO and Vivo India CEO Alex Feng told agency. He added that in the first phase (till December 2015) the company will invest Rs 12.5 crore for the facility. "The unit will have a monthly capacity of one million units. The process to start the unit is underway," he said.

Read more at: http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busine ... ef_article
About Vivo: http://www.vivoglobal.com/page/about
Tuvaluan
BRFite
Posts: 1816
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Tuvaluan »

Shyam Saran on China

Sorry to say that Shyam Saran's claim that China has no intention of overturning the world order is utter nonsense. SSaran is listening to what the Chinese are saying instead of watching what the chinese are doing -- newbie mistake for a foreign policy expert.
A recent visit to Beijing as an invitee to the Fourth World Peace Forum proved to be a welcome opportunity to feel the pulse of an emerging great power. The forum is the brainchild of Professor Yan Xuetong, a scholar celebrated for recommending the abandonment of Deng Xiaoping's famous dictum of "keeping a low profile and hiding brightness", and instead adopting a more activist profile of "striving for achievement" which goes together with a strong political leadership.
Is SSaran really that effing stupid to take the Chinese at face value? seems to be that way. Just goes to show that knowing chinese does not really make you all that much smarter at analyzing chinese intentions, if you don't pay attention to discrepancy between actions and words.
This new found openness and willingness to engage is unusual in a one party-state, otherwise intolerant of dissent and with strict social and media controls. It is difficult to think of such range and density of out-reach in democratic India.
SSaran writes this cr@p when the headlines today say this:

China mulls further curbs on internet access
The draft law says access to the Internet can be restricted when there is a threat to public security, a clause that has raised concerns because it does not define what constitutes a threat.

“The worry is that it could be applied to normal environmental protests or incidents when the public is venting dissatisfaction,” said Hu Xindou, a Beijing-based economist. “A bad law that restricts public rights could be disastrous.”
WTF is wrong with these babus, even with all the access to information about reality, they write utter sh!t.
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14222
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by svinayak »

Dont point the diplomats. They are just following the flow

Xi dream will gone with the stock market crash

Uncle Xi's bear market
China’s stockmarket rally was more than just your run-of-the-mill mania. It was political. Many investors called it a “state bull market”, believing the government was firmly in control, guaranteeing that shares would only go up. Others said it was an “Uncle Xi Bull Market”, as if it were a gift from China’s top leader, Xi Jinping. State media lent its official imprimatur to the frenzy: a People’s Daily editorial in May, shortly before the bubble popped, predicted the good times were just beginning. Buying stocks “is buying the Chinese dream”, proclaimed a top brokerage.
China learns that stocks are beyond the Communist Party’s control
Tuvaluan
BRFite
Posts: 1816
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Tuvaluan »

svinayak wrote:Dont point the diplomats. They are just following the flow
And why not? Don't the likes of Shyam Saran and Nirupama Menon understand that their views on a hostile adversary nation needs to be truthful, or at the very least not misinform the Indian public? Otherwise, don't they realize they will be doing chinese "peaceful rise" propaganda to Indians on the behalf of the chinese? One look at China's actions says their rise is going to be far from peaceful.

Why is it ok for SSaran to write the above nonsense then? Don't these diplomats serve the Indian public at all times? Or is that only until they retire?

I am not asking for warmongering but an explicit acknowledgement of what the chinese are up to at all times, instead of going all "hindi chini bhai bhai" until the chinese give India a diplomatic kick in the nuts like they do on a regular basis these days.
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13612
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by A_Gupta »

Emerging problem from China:
http://www.ibtimes.com/religion-china-g ... 30-1998282
Religion has a robust following among China’s younger generation despite the country's rule by the officially atheist Communist Party. A report released Tuesday found religion followers in China are younger, with Islam having the most followers among the under-30 set.

China recognizes only five religions: Buddhism, Taoism, Catholicism, Protestantism and Islam. Islam has the largest proportion of young followers, with 22.4 percent of those queried for the annual China Religion Survey, which was conducted by the National Survey Research Center at Beijing’s Renmin University.

"Islam tends to have a younger demographic,” Wei Dedong, a professor of Buddhist studies at the School of Philosophy at Renmin who had a hand in the research, told the state-run Global Times. “Most believers of Islam belong to ethnic minority groups and it is common for a woman to give birth to several children. The children would also become Muslims while it is very rare to have an adult converting to Islam.”

Catholicism was the second-most-practiced religion among those under 30, following Islam closely at 22 percent.
Pulikeshi
BRFite
Posts: 1513
Joined: 31 Oct 2002 12:31
Location: Badami

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Pulikeshi »

Tuvaluan wrote: WTF is wrong with these babus, even with all the access to information about reality, they write utter sh!t.
Boss not sure what you read in that article and it is not for me to change your mind...

SS has merely tried to show what the Chinese say by itself is inconsistent and contrary... by doing this...
he does not need waste the readers time on what the Chinese do in reality... and it does not help diplomatically...
as in what is unstated is more important than what is stated. Beyond that... anyones guess.
nandakumar
BRFite
Posts: 1678
Joined: 10 May 2010 13:37

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by nandakumar »

A_Gupta wrote:Emerging problem from China:
http://www.ibtimes.com/religion-china-g ... 30-1998282
Religion has a robust following among China’s younger generation despite the country's rule by the officially atheist Communist Party. A report released Tuesday found religion followers in China are younger, with Islam having the most followers among the under-30 set.

China recognizes only five religions: Buddhism, Taoism, Catholicism, Protestantism and Islam. Islam has the largest proportion of young followers, with 22.4 percent of those queried for the annual China Religion Survey, which was conducted by the National Survey Research Center at Beijing’s Renmin University.

"Islam tends to have a younger demographic,” Wei Dedong, a professor of Buddhist studies at the School of Philosophy at Renmin who had a hand in the research, told the state-run Global Times. “Most believers of Islam belong to ethnic minority groups and it is common for a woman to give birth to several children. The children would also become Muslims while it is very rare to have an adult converting to Islam.”

Catholicism was the second-most-practiced religion among those under 30, following Islam closely at 22 percent.
I think the study is restricted to those who say that they believe in religion. My undestanidng is that a large number of people (not just communist party cadre) declare themselves as atheists. In that sense the percentages of those belonging to different religious pursuasion does not pose a threat to the existing order of things.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

China says its stand on Lakhvi based on 'facts, spirit of objectiveness' - PTI, ToI
BEIJING: Virtually defending its move to block India's demand in UN to take action against Pakistan for the release of Mumbai attack mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, China on Thursday said its stand was based on "facts" and in the spirit of "objectiveness and fairness".

"As a permanent member of the UN security council China always deals with the 1267 committee matters based on facts and in the spirit of objectiveness and fairness," foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying told reporters here {Beijing}.

She was responding to a question on Prime Minister Narendra Modi taking up the issue with Chinese President Xi Jinping during their meeting at the Russian city Ufa on the sidelines of the BRICS and Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) summits on Wednesday.

Terming Modi-Xi talks as "constructive and inclusive", she said China has maintained good communication with India and other parties on the Lakhvi issue.

About India's concerns over terrorism, she said, "I can tell you that both India and China are victims of terrorism. China opposes all forms of terrorism and supports the UN playing the leading role in coordinating international cooperation on anti-terrorism. China has actively taken part in global cooperation."

On July 2, answering questions on the technical hold put by China on the Lakhvi issue in UN, deputy director general of the Asian Affairs Department of Chinese foreign ministry Huang Xilian said the issue should be discussed in the India-China joint mechanism on terrorism between the two countries.

"We have mechanism of counter-terrorism consultation between the two ministries" in which it can be discussed, he had said.

However, in his briefing after Modi-Xi talks last night, foreign secretary S Jaishankar said, "the MEA can discuss with the embassy (Chinese). There are a range of mechanisms."

The Prime Minister while conveying his concerns to Xi told him how the people of India viewed the Chinese action, he said.

China also had put a technical hold earlier on India's demand for UN security council to take action against Hizbul Mujahideen chief Syed Salahuddin and LeT leader Hafeez Sayed citing rules the UNSC resolution 1267.
Now, we have to see if China changes its stance or not. If China changes its stance, we have to tell them that they cannot be the only country to put a hold on Indian demand in terrorism cases every time. If China does not change its stance, we have to take reciprocal measures after unequivocally informing them of our displeasure and allowing them to draw conclusions from whatever measures we take.
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13612
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by A_Gupta »

nandakumar wrote: I think the study is restricted to those who say that they believe in religion. My undestanidng is that a large number of people (not just communist party cadre) declare themselves as atheists. In that sense the percentages of those belonging to different religious pursuasion does not pose a threat to the existing order of things.
I hope so. But usually problems start out small and insignificant.
schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1773
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by schinnas »

SSridhar wrote: Now, we have to see if China changes its stance or not. If China changes its stance, we have to tell them that they cannot be the only country to put a hold on Indian demand in terrorism cases every time. If China does not change its stance, we have to take reciprocal measures after unequivocally informing them of our displeasure and allowing them to draw conclusions from whatever measures we take.
These comments have been made after Modi expressed his displeasure to China very clearly for a second time and that too in person. If clear communication has not been sent out to their spokesperson from uncle 11's office, one would expect them to say something they could wiggle out of later. It indicates that Cheen is digging its heels on this matter and has made a principled stand to always veto out Indian moves when it involves Pukis. Other scenario is that their spokesperson was using a old script and they are operating ineffectively. If that is the case, it will be difficult for them to climb down ad change stance publicly given their insistence on saving face.

If we observe Cheen, they never make principled stands in these matters. They are always tied to strategic considerations. With Cheen economy showing signs of concern and with indications that FDI can flow to India instead, Cheen would do everything possible to put down India in every forum and otherwise scuttle our economic growth (including by floating counterfeit INR notes through Pukis). We should prepare for all worst case scenarios including needless escalation in our northern borders. Thanking Almighty Allah that we have such a strong and level headed leadership at center now.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21234
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Prem »

Chinese are one of Fourfathers, They won"t leave Munna In Cold
Let Dove fly over Uyghurbhumi bringing glad tiding in Bold.
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13612
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by A_Gupta »

While China's munna is busy pointing fingers at India, China itself is indulging in a similar behavior.
http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2015/07/08/po ... relations/
It was bound to happen. As China’s stock market continued its wild ride, dropping 30 percent by early July from a seven-year high only a month prior, rumors started swirling that Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and George Soros, among other vague forces of international capital, were to blame for the stock market plunge. No matter that foreign investors have only limited access to mainland Chinese stock exchanges, the current Chinese leadership has become addicted to the foreigner blame game. The phrase “hostile foreign forces” has become a catch-all for Chinese officials, scholars, and media commentators who cannot acknowledge the reality of China’s current political and economic situation.

In the past few years, virtually no area of Chinese policy has remained untouched by the influence of “hostile foreign forces.” China’s education minister Yuan Guiren argues that “young teachers and students are key targets of infiltration by enemy forces” and condemned Western concepts such as the rule of law, civil society, and human rights. The Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS) accused “hostile Western forces” of exaggerating the number of people who died during the Great Leap Forward in order to undermine the legitimacy of the party. CASS also worked with China’s National Defense University and the General Staff department of the People’s Liberation Army to produce a film that claims U.S.-China military-to-military exchanges offer Americans a chance for infiltration and attacks the longstanding Fulbright program as an element of “America’s cultural invasion.” Western reports of police violence in Xinjiang were attributed to hostile foreign forces in August 2014. The vice chairman of the All-China Federation of Trade Unions, Li Yufu, blamed hostile foreign forces for attempting to undermine the solidarity of the Chinese workers. Early in China’s clean air movement, as well, some officials argued that the activists were being used by hostile foreign forces. And, of course, hostile foreign forces were a major contributor to the protests in Hong Kong. Even President Xi Jinping has warned against outside forces intruding on Chinese religions, although virtually all major religions in China today came to the country from outside its borders, and two of the largest, Buddhism and Catholicism, are led by religious figures who reside outside China.
Tuvaluan
BRFite
Posts: 1816
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Tuvaluan »

Pulikeshi wrote: SS has merely tried to show what the Chinese say by itself is inconsistent and contrary... by doing this...
he does not need waste the readers time on what the Chinese do in reality... and it does not help diplomatically...
as in what is unstated is more important than what is stated. Beyond that... anyones guess.
one would be willing to buy this line of diplotomatic behavior, if these very same people did not exhibit GUBO properties with Pakistan and less powerful states in the name of diplomacy. It is only the current leadership that is redrawing the contours of India's response to hostile countries like China and Pakistan -- for one thing, there is no need to buy the chinese line of "peaceful rise" given their explicitly hostile behavior with India. Just what exactly does all this pussyfooting around China's support for nuclear weapons and terrorism against India, and repeating their "peaceful rise of china" nonsense to the Indian public? I don't get it, if these is some supposed "chankian" diplomatic behavior being exhibited here. Where is the upside for India with this kind of response, especially when the audience is 100% Indian?
ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5407
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by ShauryaT »

Tuvaluan wrote: one would be willing to buy this line of diplotomatic behavior, if these very same people did not exhibit GUBO properties with Pakistan and less powerful states in the name of diplomacy. It is only the current leadership that is redrawing the contours of India's response to hostile countries like China and Pakistan -- for one thing, there is no need to buy the chinese line of "peaceful rise" given their explicitly hostile behavior with India. Just what exactly does all this pussyfooting around China's support for nuclear weapons and terrorism against India, and repeating their "peaceful rise of china" nonsense to the Indian public? I don't get it, if these is some supposed "chankian" diplomatic behavior being exhibited here. Where is the upside for India with this kind of response, especially when the audience is 100% Indian?
Right, that is why Shyam Saran, enjoys the PM's confidence as chair of the NSAB? Boss, hold whatever views you want to, but can you spare us the language and abuse?
Pulikeshi
BRFite
Posts: 1513
Joined: 31 Oct 2002 12:31
Location: Badami

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Pulikeshi »

Tuvaluan wrote: one would be willing to buy this line of diplotomatic behavior, if these very same people did not exhibit GUBO properties with Pakistan and less powerful states in the name of diplomacy.
You seem to be mistaking the dance for the outcome. Strategy is quite non-intuitive and for the most part not personal.
This is even more the case for Babus as they do not even need to worry about reelection! :twisted:

SS was quoting what the Chinese claimed, he never said what you attribute to him -
I am prepared to be corrected if he claimed China in his opinion is indeed pursuing a "peaceful rise"
Tuvaluan wrote: It is only the current leadership that is redrawing the contours of India's response to hostile countries like China and Pakistan -- for one thing, there is no need to buy the chinese line of "peaceful rise" given their explicitly hostile behavior with India.
India has paid great heed to her self transformation especially when it comes to Foreign Policy. Has the current leadership really gone beyond this original position and taken on a larger mantle in the neighborhood, if so what is it? It is far easier to argue that the dance has changed with the current leadership, but the outcomes desired remain a continuation of the work done by the previous government.
Tuvaluan wrote: Just what exactly does all this pussyfooting around China's support for nuclear weapons and terrorism against India, and repeating their "peaceful rise of china" nonsense to the Indian public? I don't get it, if these is some supposed "chankian" diplomatic behavior being exhibited here. Where is the upside for India with this kind of response, especially when the audience is 100% Indian?
Even if one where to take your position and agree with the conclusions you have jumped to, unlike your "loathsome babus," what are the alternatives that you propose to the current leadership? The position that the current leadership's view is contrary to the babus position does not seem to be supported by any of the actions thus far...
If anything the babus seem happy that their leader is listening to them :mrgreen:

----x---x----x

All that said - just what does a more muscular policy achieve with China? In any case China already views India's moves as quite robust... If anything India on several fronts has the upper hand even if she suffers from lesser capabilities and a weaker economic base. One needs to ask - if India is merely seeking a security shelter for herself to complete her transformation - what exactly has China been able to do to prevent this vector? If anything 1962, border uncertainty and their support of the Paki Terrorists just encouraged India to become a nuclear power and induce her well on the way to a global power. Leaving one confounded with the outcomes achieved by Chinese Stratagems!
Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Chinmayanand »

Why doesn't India raise the issue of human rights violation in Xingjiang at UN ?
Let's see how China feels. After all India has solid proof of human rights violation there.
Last edited by Chinmayanand on 10 Jul 2015 16:43, edited 1 time in total.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7143
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by JE Menon »

^^?? Could you clarify?
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

JEM, I think Chinmayanand meant Eastern Turkestan.
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by arun »

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying's Regular Press Conference on July 9, 2015 ……………

Q: Yesterday, Chinese President Xi Jinping met with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Ufa. Is there any update on this meeting? Some Indian official said after the meeting that Prime Minister Modi expressed concerns about the technical hold placed by China on India's move to ask the UNSC 1267 committee to review Pakistan’s release on bail of Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, the suspect of the Mumbai terrorist attacks. What's your comment on this?

A: Yesterday, President Xi Jinping met with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Ufa. Relevant information has already been released. Both leaders commented positively on the sound momentum of growth of bilateral relations and further identified the key areas and future direction to enhance bilateral cooperation.

President Xi Jinping noted that in Xi'an last May, he and Prime Minister Modi reached important consensus on enriching the bilateral strategic partnership and forging a closer partnership for development. This sends a positive signal of China-India cooperation and common development to our two peoples as well as the international community. With concerted efforts by both sides, the consensus reached between the two leaders are now being translated into steady progress in bilateral cooperation on legislative institutions, railways, industrial parks and smart cities. Our two sides should make joint efforts to maintain the sound momentum of growth for bilateral relations and break new ground in pursuing win-win cooperation. Two sides should also continue to maintain frequent high-level exchanges, enhance strategic communication on all levels, complete feasibility studies on major cooperation projects as planned and develop flagship programs for China-India cooperation. Efforts shall also be made to implement the China-India cultural exchange program, step up think-tank, media and local cooperation, properly manage the differences and join hands to maintain peace and tranquility in the border areas. China and India should work together to push forward the development of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), the BRICS New Development Bank (NDB) and the Bangladesh-China-India-Myanmar Economic Corridor (BCIM), and explore ways to effectively connect China's Belt and Road initiatives with India's relevant development plans, in a bid to achieve mutually beneficial cooperation and common development.

Prime Minister Modi pointed out that now China and India enjoy sound growth of bilateral relations and enhanced mutual trust. High-level officials from two sides maintain close communication. Bilateral trade and economic cooperation continue to deepen in various areas as science and technology, outer space and infrastructure. India welcomes investment by more Chinese enterprises and stands ready to enhance strategic communication and coordination to properly handle the boundary question and other differences between the two countries.

As for your specific question, I’d like to say that China opposes terrorism of all forms, supports the central coordinating role of the UN in global efforts against terrorism, and actively participates in international anti-terrorist cooperation. As a permanent member of the UN Security Council, China always addresses issues related with the UNSC 1267 Committee based on facts with a fair and objective position. China has maintained close communication with all parties concerned, including India, on issues related with the UNSC 1267 Committee.

Clicky
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by arun »

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying's Regular Press Conference on July 10, 2015 …………

Q: In recent years, the Chinese navy has been conducting exercises and visiting ports in the Indian Ocean more frequently, a move that has raised concerns from India. The Indian government is deploying more aircrafts and ships to the Andaman Islands as a response. What is China's comment? Should India worry about China's strategic intentions in the Indian Ocean? What role does the Indian Ocean play in China's own national security?

A:Your question is logically flawed. With ever-deepening ties and expanded cooperation in various fields between China and South Asian countries, there are also increased friendly exchanges in the military field. It is an international practice for some Chinese naval missions to visit ports of other countries and have stops and supplies there, which is also conducive to regional peace and stability.

In fact, China maintains a sound and rapid momentum of development with South Asian countries in recent years, including India. President Xi Jinping and Prime Minister Modi just had a friendly and constructive meeting in Ufa. Our bilateral political trust is deepening and cooperation in various fields is advancing. We also maintain good communication and coordination on regional and international issues. In the context of globalization, the security and stability of the Indian Ocean region bears on the common interests of all countries. China is ready to conduct maritime cooperation and dialogue with relevant countries including India to jointly play a constructive role in upholding peace, stability and development of the Indian Ocean. We will continue to live in harmony and pursue common development and prosperity with all South Asian countries on the basis of the five principles of peaceful coexistence.

Clicky
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

Xi proposes new strategic framework - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
“There is a sense of new energy and enthusiasm” in India-China ties following the talks between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and China’s President Xi Jinping in Ufa, the venue of the seventh summit of the Brazil-Russia-India, China-South Africa (BRICS) grouping, Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar told the media on Thursday.

The wide canvas covered during the 90-minute talks included the boundary question, confidence-building measures, issues of maintaining peace and tranquillity along the border and more meeting points at the border. Diplomatic sources said the clarification of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and the passage of the Pakistan-China economic corridor through disputed territory in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) have emerged as the two impediments hampering the full development of India-China ties.

Mr. Jaishankar said India’s bid for a permanent seat in a reformed U.N. Security Council and the Nuclear Suppliers Group membership also came up for discussion.

Key points

President Xi proposed Sino-Indian collaboration within a new strategic framework, which has the emerging markets and developing countries at their focal points.

He stressed that China and India should make joint efforts to push a new institutional framework of global relevance, which includes the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), the BRICS New Development Bank (NDB), along with firming up their partnership within the emerging market framework.

Regarding the harmonisation of China’s connectivity initiative with the Indian one, Chinese diplomats have already advocated the fusion of China’s Belt and Road project with New Delhi’s “Act East” policy.

In Ufa, President XI singled out the BCIM project — also called the Kolkata to Kunming economic corridor — as a priority undertaking between the two countries.

Following talks with President Xi, Prime Minister Modi reached out directly to Chinese audiences with his posts on Sina Weibo, a typically Chinese social media platform.

“Our meeting was very comprehensive and several issues were discussed, both about India-China ties and global affairs. Both of us are strongly committed to taking India-China ties to new heights and increasing our economic, cultural and people-to-people relations,” he said in one of his posts.
Tuvaluan
BRFite
Posts: 1816
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Tuvaluan »

You seem to be mistaking the dance for the outcome. Strategy is quite non-intuitive and for the most part not personal.
This is even more the case for Babus as they do not even need to worry about reelection! :twisted:
Come on now. What was the outcome of the dance with pakistan -- i am willing to accept even post-hoc explanations. Tactics are time sensitive, and I can see that with weak leadership of the MMS kind, it made sense to talk peace...as a sort of de-facto justification of MMS regimes treachery and spinelessness.

I understand that the babus are also not monolithic and there are sharp and strong ones in the mix along with weak and spineless ones that kowtow to the political leadership.
SS was quoting what the Chinese claimed, he never said what you attribute to him -
I am prepared to be corrected if he claimed China in his opinion is indeed pursuing a "peaceful rise"
He did say that China has no intention of overturning the current global order, which is peaceful rise in a different form. I am willing to hear any alternative explanation of that sentiment about china not playing disruptor, which is already not a reality.
India has paid great heed to her self transformation especially when it comes to Foreign Policy. Has the current leadership really gone beyond this original position and taken on a larger mantle in the neighborhood, if so what is it?
Begs the question as to what you think the "original position" is. Indian actions so far have focussed on allowing the chinese to accrue economic and technological leverage over India, and such actions lead me to think the original position was either non existent or does not recognize china as a hostile country.
It is far easier to argue that the dance has changed with the current leadership, but the outcomes desired remain a continuation of the work done by the previous government.
Yes, it is easier to argue so because of the actions of the government, if we ignore everything that comes out of the mouths of babus and politicians. Your claim of the current govt. continuing the work of previous government is not verifiable and is thus not acceptable as a legitimate argument, unless you can provide explict actions in the past that are in sync with current actions.

Even if one where to take your position and agree with the conclusions you have jumped to, unlike your "loathsome babus," what are the alternatives that you propose to the current leadership?
SS is not part of the current leadership if I am not mistaken -- he is retired. I don't loathe babus as a rule except for the power-mongering ones who are politically compromised, and there are boatload of them in the retired and serving IAS/IFS crowd. It is easy to spot these ones. SS was a respected officer when he negotiated with the US when he was serving and has always been reasonable, but I find this current article on China just intent on taking chinese rhetoric at face value. Go ahead and point out the exact sentences in the article that tell you otherwise, just like I pointed out the ones that seemed like spreading chinese propaganda to the Indians.

The chinese depend on such false propaganda to put on a benevolent face while committing malevolent actions, and these same babucracy India allowed pakistan to do exactly that for decades, even when they had complete control of what information they released to the Indian press. so excuse me if I find all this pretense that there is some secret diplomatic dance involved with such tactics that has an outcome that will serve India's interests -- there may well be one, but I am yet to see you explain what that is.
The position that the current leadership's view is contrary to the babus position does not seem to be supported by any of the actions thus far...
That is not my claim -- that is your misreading of what I have said. I have explicitly stated that Mr. SS is a retired officer, not a serving one, which also means that I do not expect any synchrony between his views and that of the current regime.
All that said - just what does a more muscular policy achieve with China? In any case China already views India's moves as quite robust... If anything India on several fronts has the upper hand even if she suffers from lesser capabilities and a weaker economic base. One needs to ask - if India is merely seeking a security shelter for herself to complete her transformation - what exactly has China been able to do to prevent this vector?
All of these questions appear rhetorical when you consider that all of India's commercial phone networks are running off chinese hardware and software -- the chinese already have the means and the capabilities to pull the rug from under India's economy with a cyber attack on India's cell phone network. So while it all looks peachy on the surface -- India is in a very vulnerable position w.r.t. the chinese in real terms in this area. Go ahead and list the areas where you think India has a upper hand vis-a-vis the chinese today? Maybe that will expand on your vague hints and suggestions of knowing what the original Indian strategy with respect to China is. I don't see any such thing, going by the complete lack of response to any and all chinese threats for decades, but maybe you do and it would be interesting to know what that is.
If anything 1962, border uncertainty and their support of the Paki Terrorists just encouraged India to become a nuclear power and induce her well on the way to a global power. Leaving one confounded with the outcomes achieved by Chinese Stratagems!
And chinese proliferating nuclear weapons to Pakistan is irrelevant? China has the werewithal to restrict India's membership to cartels associated with nuclear commerce, and also the ability to keep a proxy nuclear state like pakistan remain a hostile and permanent threat to India. How exactly has India confounded the chinese with its own development of nuclear weapons -- all India has done is work hard to ensure that it is not left with a knife in a gun fight. It has not yet nixed the threat of war on two fronts from the chinese and the pakis, or the threat of nuclear war with the paki proxy while china talks the language of peace and friendship for the likes of SS to spread around to Indians.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25384
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

X-post from STFUP thread.
Xi assures Pak of China's special support after India's entry in SCO - Saibal Dasgupta, ToI
China's president Xi Jinping hailed the entry of India and Pakistan as members of Shanghai Cooperation Organization saying it will "inject new impetus into the organization's all-ranging cooperation", the official media, Xinhua, said here on Friday.

Chinese observers described the development as a sign that a lot of differences in the region will now be resolved. They also seemed excited that the SCO platform might enable China to play the peace broker in the region, which includes India-Pakistan relations.

Independent observers see the enlarged SCO as a possible challenge to NATO, the West-dominated security club. SCO now has four nuclear powered nations with India and Pakistan joining its benches along with China and Russia.

SCO has issued a 10-year development plan for more intense cooperation on security and foreign relations. But Xi made a special effort to reassure the Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif saying India's entry will not dilute Beijing's special affection for his country.

"We will make joint effort to enrich the connotation of the China-Pakistan community of common destiny, so as to play an exemplary role for building the community of common destiny between China and other neighboring countries," Xi was quoted as saying by Xinhua.

Xi also told Sharif that, "China firmly supports Pakistan's efforts in safeguarding national security and will continue to provide support and help for Pakistan to improve relevant capabilities."

Chinese experts said sharing the common platform at the SCO will enable India and Pakistan to understand each other better, and resolve their differences. At the same time, China is worried that the differences between India and Pakistan can cloud the agenda of SCO.

"If a dramatic confrontation breaks out between India and Pakistan at some point, it will definitely pose a stumbling block for the group to reach any agreement over major issues in the future," said Zhao Gancheng, director of South Asia Studies at the Shanghai Institute for International Studies.

Liu Huaqin, researcher of Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, said, "Regional economic cooperation is a main support of the development of SCO and is always a key topic of the SCO Summit. Under the background of a sluggish global economy, strengthening economic cooperation within the SCO framework has become a common expectation."
Locked