Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 05 Sep 2013 22:53

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Subramanian Swamy

Thieves of Congress: Thorium theft: A 60 Lakh Crore scam #India ?

1) A letter was written to the Prime Minister of India 3 Months ago, to look into the illegal thorium mining scam of India.
It's the biggest Scam ever in India amounting to at least 60 Lakh Crore Rupees made by selling Nuclear Fuel Thorium mined in Southern parts of India.

2) Prof V Rajamanickam, India’s leading marine mineral explorer and a geochemist of repute, says that Manavalakurichi (in Kanyakumari district) is home to world’s 30 per cent thorium deposits. According to World Nuclear Association (WNA- the global body of nuclear industry) India is home to 3,00,000 tonnes of thorium deposit.

3) A Tirunelveli-based businessman supposedly with strong congress connections, is depriving India of its precious mineral wealth by smuggling it in pretext of sand mining. He owns 96 out of the 111 garnet mining licences issued by the Indian Bureau of Mines. And also ALL 44 licences issued by GoI for mining ilmenite.

4) This compromises India’s energy security and strategic position as a prospective superpower as the Thorium is being smuggled to other countries.

5) Containers filled with sand from Manavalakurichi are exported through Tuticorin Port and is an open and regular sight. The Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) is allowing this loot in front of its eyes. .

6) According to Dr Kalyanaraman, who retired from the Indian Railway Account Service, thorium reserves of India are worth Rs 1,340
billion. But all this will be sold to our rival nations because of the corruption.

If this is not selling the nation then what is?
-----------------------------------------
If you want to dig deeper on the issue, read on :
http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... going.html

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 05 Sep 2013 23:03

I hope Friends of NAMO put this kind of cartoons on large hoardings in urban centers. There are 250+ constituencies that have major Urban population....

and so on...

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 05 Sep 2013 23:04

Is US summons the reason for SG's trip to US on the grounds of check up?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 05 Sep 2013 23:04

Dhananjay wrote:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Subramanian Swamy

Thieves of Congress: Thorium theft: A 60 Lakh Crore scam #India ?

1) A letter was written to the Prime Minister of India 3 Months ago, to look into the illegal thorium mining scam of India.
It's the biggest Scam ever in India amounting to at least 60 Lakh Crore Rupees made by selling Nuclear Fuel Thorium mined in Southern parts of India.

2) Prof V Rajamanickam, India’s leading marine mineral explorer and a geochemist of repute, says that Manavalakurichi (in Kanyakumari district) is home to world’s 30 per cent thorium deposits. According to World Nuclear Association (WNA- the global body of nuclear industry) India is home to 3,00,000 tonnes of thorium deposit.

3) A Tirunelveli-based businessman supposedly with strong congress connections, is depriving India of its precious mineral wealth by smuggling it in pretext of sand mining. He owns 96 out of the 111 garnet mining licences issued by the Indian Bureau of Mines. And also ALL 44 licences issued by GoI for mining ilmenite.

4) This compromises India’s energy security and strategic position as a prospective superpower as the Thorium is being smuggled to other countries.

5) Containers filled with sand from Manavalakurichi are exported through Tuticorin Port and is an open and regular sight. The Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) is allowing this loot in front of its eyes. .

6) According to Dr Kalyanaraman, who retired from the Indian Railway Account Service, thorium reserves of India are worth Rs 1,340
billion. But all this will be sold to our rival nations because of the corruption.

If this is not selling the nation then what is?
-----------------------------------------
If you want to dig deeper on the issue, read on :
http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... going.html

We raised this topic in YSR thread. YSR granted 25000 acres of beach sands area for a company owned by a benami/friend of his son-in-law, Brother Anil Kumar. It was deleted for being political. Sometimes BR does shows the congressi skill of shooting one's own foot.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 05 Sep 2013 23:05

An elaborate outlook article on Dr. Swamy.

The Jury Is Out

A Brief History of Subramanian Swamy

1939: Born to Sitaram Subramanian, a civil servant, in Chennai
1956: Doesn't join St Stephen’s “because I felt like a foreigner there”
1964: PhD in Economics at Harvard under Nobel Laureate Simon Kuznets. Authors paper with Paul A. Samuelson.
1966: Marries Roxna Kapadia
1969: Invited by Amartya Sen to join Delhi School of Economics (DSE) but offered only a reader’s chair instead of full professorial chair on Chinese studies, because of his pro-market views. Joins IIT-Delhi as economics professor.
1970: During Parliament debate on budget, Indira Gandhi calls him “Santa Claus with unrealistic ideas” (for his claims that 10 per cent growth rates, agricultural exports and a bigger defence budget were possible)
1972: Swamy and wife both sacked from IIT; wins court case in 1991
1975: Flees to US during Emergency (via Chennai and Sri Lanka) disguised as a Sikh. Joins Harvard as visiting professor.
1976: Stuns Rajya Sabha by reappearing briefly: “I have a point of order. There is no obituary reference for democracy. It has also died.” Flees again.
1977: Elected to Lok Sabha. Morarji Desai proposes his name as finance minister, which is vetoed by A.B. Vajpayee.
1980: Re-elected to Lok Sabha. Persuades Deng Xiaoping to open Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet to Hindu pilgrims from India a year later.
1990-91: Cabinet minister for commerce, law and justice in Chandra Shekhar government.
1994-96: Chairman with cabinet minister rank of labour and trade mission during PVN era
1998: Re-elected to 12th Lok Sabha from Madurai, Tamil Nadu (3rd term)
1999: Loses Lok Sabha elections
2004: Forms Rashtriya Swabhiman Manch
2008: Writes first of five letters to Manmohan Singh seeking permission to prosecute A. Raja in 2G scam
2011: Filed 206-page-long petition with Singh seeking permission to prosecute Sonia Gandhi
2011: Harvard removes his course after a controversial article in DNA advocating
disenfranchising Muslims.
Jan 2012: SC accepts Swamy's plea against PMO in 2G case
Feb 2012: SC cancels 122 2G licences of telecom companies on the petition filed by the CPIL and Swamy/ Trial court dismisses plea to make P. Chidambaram a co-accused in 2G scam.

Swamy’s Pet Themes

China: Chinese economy scholar. Negotiated with Chinese govt to allow Indian pilgrims to visit Kailash Mansarovar.
Israel: Early advocate of strong ties with Israel. Played key role in India establishing diplomatic relationship.
LTTE: Viewed Tamil Tigers striving for separate Eelam in Sri Lanka as part of problem, not solution. Wants LTTE ban to stay.
Sethu: Opposed to Indo-Lanka link project. Says it hurts sentiments of those who believe Rama walked the strip.
EVMs: Believes Congress and UPA are winning elections only because electronic voting machines are being rigged.
Income Tax: Has consistently argued that personal income tax should be scrapped, saying it generates black money.

Excerpts of interview of Dr. Swamy's wife, Roxna Swamy - “His Views Are Those Of A Patriotic Indian”

On their early days: I was studying mathematics at Harvard in the mid-1960s when I met Swamy. We got married in June 1966. It wasn’t an arranged marriage. There was opposition. During the Emergency, Swamy was underground. After attachment proceedings started, I got interested in law. It was a horrible time. The children (two daughters) grew up to be positive dislikers of government. I became anti-Left when it became an appendage of the Congress.

On Swamy: He has a great selection of friends across the political spectrum. He’s brilliant, no doubt about it. Because he’s so brilliant, people want to put him down. Even now he’s capable of being PM. He has the capacity. He’s the most relaxed person I know.
On the legal battles: There are people across the length and breadth of intelligentsia who give him support, they do. I have worked for years for a senior counsel. And Swamy is a natural senior counsel without even trying.

On the inflammatory article against Muslims: Swamy has the interest of the country at heart. Any patriotic Indian will endorse the view. You should have pride in your ancestry. These are all suggestions that have to be done through the law. These are ideas. Swamy genuinely feels India has to be a certain way. As an intellectual, you have to suggest. But it is for the country to decide.

On the Harvard censure: I was shocked. Harvard had backed Swamy during the Emergency. They rammed the whole thing through. Have you seen how big it is online?
On Swamy’s worldview: I do not have religious feelings on the subject. As a Parsi, we were driven out of Iran by the Muslims. We do not want something like that. Yes, I have a Muslim nephew-in-law and son-in-law. If it comes up at dinner, you have an argument. Do you want India to become like Saudi Arabia? What solutions do you have to counter Islamic terrorism? Look at the way people are screaming about Salman Rushdie and (M.F.) Husain. Muslims give Swamy the benefit of the doubt, believe his views are those of a patriotic Indian.

Firstpost has a funny yet succinct analogy on Dr. Swamy. Like Forrest Gump, he has been present in or around most of the landmark events of India's history since 1970's.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 05 Sep 2013 23:12

SM is amazing and I think its the biggest social revolution that we are witnessing.

In the morning, I gave the point of temple's gold is of devotees' donation. Its not like Church land, which is donated by govts. If there is a crisis, first ask govt to take back its land. First it was retweeted by SangParivarOrg and others. Now the idea of temple donations are from devotees so UPeeA cannot touch is spreading like fire in twitter. Feeling proud.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 05 Sep 2013 23:28

kmkraoind ji, you may want to read a few posts around this one perhaps for more info.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1503864

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Sep 2013 00:14

SwamyG wrote: It would be interesting times if he became the PM.

especially for those babus who are in the CBI raid list, when CBI comes under his control!!!

.

but, he IS weird /perhaps only a poser.. his inner qualities have not been exposed to DDM yet i suppose.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 06 Sep 2013 01:03

General (Retd.) Shri V.K. Singh on Kejri:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5wfsFu7de8

Main Points:

1.) It seems Sh. Kejriwal came with Shri Anna Hazare to make a name for himself.

2.) He had made up his mind to create a political party.

3.) The movement started with Anna ji, Kejri got famous and later separated taking the funds away with him.

4.) In one dharna he had people write 23 letters urging to make a political party and he did that.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 06 Sep 2013 01:14

SwamyG wrote:Maybe he (SSwami) is trying to position himself for the PM candidate, if Modi does not work out. It would be interesting times if he became the PM.

Very good idea if the enemy thinks that. There needs to be more than one single point to attack. Swami's blunt talk and certificates from the west make a good combo with NaMo's native qualifications.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 06 Sep 2013 02:08

^ 5 major things SS is aware and very conscious about.

1. India's need to put Dharma first.
2. When dealing with people with no morality..dump morality.
3. China: Hit them where it hurts.
4. Awareness of Shiv Bhoomi in Chinese hands and need to reclaim it.
5. Abolition of IT.

Can get the Dharmic consolidation going very fast..but i doubt he is anywhere near NMs league in the run to PMship.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 06 Sep 2013 02:34

RamaY wrote:Nope.. most likely FM or C/TM.

What is that? Can't decode. Is it "Conspiracy/Chanakyan" theory minister?

Seriously, you mean CM of Tamilnadu? With his background he should be at the center FinMin or even External Affairs Minister (to apply sama/dana/bheda to Chinese and of course to Pakistan the same with an option to go for the fourth upAya as well).

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Sep 2013 02:42

Commerce/Trade Minister saaar

Yes, external affairs is also a good item for him.

But I would like to see him as FM while a lady like Smriti/Meenakshi like person becomes our external affairs min, and imagine her showing ungli to Pakistan/massa/china/KSA etc.,

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 06 Sep 2013 02:43

NM is born in state where he is elected 3 times already. Subramanyan Swami no one can say except his record.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 06 Sep 2013 03:08

I think Swamy was elected from South Mumbai several times

What happened to Cho Ramasawmy

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Sep 2013 03:14

Amyrao garu, didn't they allow EmiRau spelling in your handle

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Sep 2013 03:18

Keep in mind that Swamy has good diplomatic contacts in China. He is not as much of a hawk against China as BRF'ites want to believe. He is of course, leagues ahead of Khursh1t or Blue Turban when it comes to balls in foreign policy.

He is patriotic to the core and wont sell out India or Hindu's interests

He is a bit of a butterfly. Has many interests, is a maverick and has intelligent opinions in several areas. Modi, if he comes to power, should use Swamy wisely. Give him one portfolio but also use him as a floater/internal-think-tanker to influence policy in several spheres

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Sep 2013 03:37

kmkraoind wrote:SM is amazing and I think its the biggest social revolution that we are witnessing.

In the morning, I gave the point of temple's gold is of devotees' donation. Its not like Church land, which is donated by govts. If there is a crisis, first ask govt to take back its land. First it was retweeted by SangParivarOrg and others. Now the idea of temple donations are from devotees so UPeeA cannot touch is spreading like fire in twitter. Feeling proud.

Can we look at this crisis as an opportunity?

What if the temples agree to give their gold to the GOI for safekeeping. In exchange for a complete disengagement of the GOI from ALL temple management across the country. Zero GOI influence on temples for perpetuity. The temple boards/trustees decide how best to organize themselves and their finances, whether to consolidate or not etc etc

In addition, demand the following:

a) The gold given to the GOI can be demanded anytime by the temples after a certain cutoff date. GOI to return gold pound-for-pound with zero questions asked and zero delays. Supreme Court to be the guarantor of the promise

b) Gold to be chemically tested before transfer and before the return transfer for purity & to prevent bait-and-switch

c) GOI to give rupee equivalent of gold value at today's rate plus an annual interest till the gold is returned

d) No-loss guarantee. When the temples demand their gold back, they pay the going rate of gold at that date or the rate on the date at which they bailed out the GOI, whichever is lower. No taxes on the profit that the temples make

Any problems with this approach?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Sep 2013 03:42

^ forgive me for saying this.

I said so (just read my posts on this topic). I expected the dhimmi intellect justifying this idea. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1506376

This is nothing but Dhimmitude. Why should temples give their money for Govt to get out of temple management, which is not a secular thing to begin?

If GoI want to use the temple funds, that means it wants to bring religion into govt. So india should become a Hindu Rashtra before it can touch a single rupee from temple funds.

Already the minorities contribute nothing to the economy (per their own admissions) and do not believe in uniform civil code etc. And after ~1000 years of colonization, they claim they have no assets (because they are siphoned out of Bharat to their respective safe heavens). But they have all the money needed to convert hindus. Why should they get any rights besides basic human rights?

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 06 Sep 2013 04:05

saravana wrote:I am the last person who will support the termite queen but the US can stick its summons where the sun doesn't shine.

Yes actually BJP can use this opportunity issuing statement on your lines PLUS condemning all those like john dayal going to US senate and asking them to sanction Bharat for electing NDA to power.

Or congressi MPs writing letter to obama deny visa to Shri Modi.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Sep 2013 04:29

RamaY wrote:Commerce/Trade Minister saaar

Yes, external affairs is also a good item for him.

But I would like to see him as FM while a lady like Smriti/Meenakshi like person becomes our external affairs min, and imagine her showing ungli to Pakistan/massa/china/KSA etc.,

I want Smriti Irani as External Affairs minister.

Imagine when Bombaba talks about "access of yevil" want to see "Irani" flashing telegenic smiles on CNN/Fox/BBC and talking about how the axis of terrorists is hurting India.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Sep 2013 04:36

Prem Kumar wrote: d) No-loss guarantee. When the temples demand their gold back, they pay the going rate of gold at that date or the rate on the date at which they bailed out the GOI, whichever is lower. No taxes on the profit that the temples make

If GOI had been trustworthy, we would not have been in the rupee devaluation crisis in the first place!

GOI cannot be trusted with paper, and you want to trust GOI with gold? Let GOI earn back its trust with paper first (economy) and then earn back its trust on protecting the paper (defense/security - external/internal) and then earn back its trust on growing the paper and using it wisely (governance) *before* any talking about any gold - leave alone temple gold.

In short, even rationalizing the request (RBI enquiry should be seen in that light) should not be tought! GOI touching temple gold - a complete no-go.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 06 Sep 2013 04:51

Subramanian Swamy = Home Minister + Law Minister

Amit Shah = Minister of State Home

Meenakshi Lekhi = Minister of State Law

Task 1: Going after 1st family and their close teams: http://is.gd/yFGLy7
Exposing diggy - chidu and 26/11 conspiracy to implicate hinus as terrorists. Plus freeing Sadhvi Pragya & Col. Purohit

Task 2: Exposing Harsh Mandars like and their ISI Nabi Fai kind of links, Media people like burkha - rajdeep - pranav roy, NGOs

Task 3: Giving equal rights to Indic temples like christian-islamic ones. Like no non-hindu / non-buddhist / non-jain / non-sikh to become the management member, No land, building or any tax, and same education rights as church. Same ability to register marriage as church.

Task 4: Freeing CBI - IB from congi shackles.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 06 Sep 2013 04:54

RamaY wrote:Amyrao garu, didn't they allow EmiRau spelling in your handle

garu or gari?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Sep 2013 04:59

i think garu is across gender in my understanding of telugu. of course, my knawlidge is near zero. just like ji..

btw, what is wrong with Amy Rao handle? When Y can be a last name, why not Rao? and end this assumptions on gender by handle identification please/ot

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Sep 2013 05:05

SaiK garu,

Amy Rao is a real name.
Emi Rau = knows nothing

in telungu.

So I am suggesting Amy garu a spelling of her name, that would have been more funny. Same as Ramya or YamaR for RamaY.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Sep 2013 05:08

ayooo.. i thought emi ledu is nothing. okay okay andi. btw, did you hear modi speak in telugu?

btw is it telungu (sounds like tamil person addressing telugu language) or telugu?

like in the bharatiyar song: .. Sundara Telunginil Pattu Isaippom ... [let us create a song in the sundara telungu language]

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Sep 2013 05:12

Both are correct. Telungu is more classical use.so people who got separated long time back call it telungu, and recent branches call telugu...

Chenna pattanam is ancient brotherhood ain't it?

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 06 Sep 2013 05:13

Singha wrote:i read somewhere people close to ruling family were in the business of smuggling indian antiques using govt machinery and channels back in the 80s or so it is said. I am sure such 'experts' and 'expertise' is not lacking in delhi.

Sonia's sister anushka has two shops in italy one is called ethnica, the second is called ganapati. LTTE smuggled hindu idols to italy for sonia sisters. The court accepted Swamy's case and issued CBI orders to follow, the CBI went to italy and italian govt. has asked for an FIR copy, but govt. of India is refusing. The new govt. will issue it:

Both the videos are 2 or 1 and half minute each, so please everyone watch them.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 06 Sep 2013 05:54

It's almost like

Aravam
Tamil
Tamizh

The Pallava appears late on the scene as a power in the Tamil land. Some opine that they are descended from the Tirayar (or weave-men) a section of the Parathavar (coastal men), while others connect them with the foreign Pahlavas. To those who call the Pallavas descendants of Tondaman. Ilam Tirayan, it may be said that nowhere do the historic Pallavas claim relationship with the Cholas or the lkshvaku family, though their founder claims to have become king by marrying a Naga.

The Tondai Nadu, the homeland of the Pallava, was inhabited by the Kurumbar or Aruvar or Aruvalar (Tamil. Aruval= bill-hook) according to a Mackenzie manuscript and early Tamil literature. They were a pastoral and nomadic tribe. Their country was divided into Aruvanadu and Aruva vadathalai (=north Aruva). Aruva-nadu according to a ninth century inscription ' began roughly near Bahur or Pondicherry. The other, Aruva-vadathalai must have begun somewhere about Kanchi and extended northwards up to the northernmost limit of Tamilakam somewhere near Pulicat beyond which lived the Vadugar or Northerners, speaking a language different from Tamil from the age of Tolkappiyam which defines the Tamil boundaries. These Aruvars of the two divisions were in immediate contact with the Vadugar who came to call all the Tamils Aravar. Aravar means Nagas in Tamil, but we do not know for certain if the Aruvar were Nagas.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Sep 2013 06:12

Prem Kumar wrote:Can we look at this crisis as an opportunity?

What if the temples agree to give their gold to the GOI for safekeeping. In exchange for a complete disengagement of the GOI from ALL temple management across the country. Zero GOI influence on temples for perpetuity. The temple boards/trustees decide how best to organize themselves and their finances, whether to consolidate or not etc etc

In addition, demand the following:

a) The gold given to the GOI can be demanded anytime by the temples after a certain cutoff date. GOI to return gold pound-for-pound with zero questions asked and zero delays. Supreme Court to be the guarantor of the promise

b) Gold to be chemically tested before transfer and before the return transfer for purity & to prevent bait-and-switch

c) GOI to give rupee equivalent of gold value at today's rate plus an annual interest till the gold is returned

d) No-loss guarantee. When the temples demand their gold back, they pay the going rate of gold at that date or the rate on the date at which they bailed out the GOI, whichever is lower. No taxes on the profit that the temples make

Any problems with this approach?

I followed this post here from the economics thread.

This fails the most basic rules of negotiation - leverage must be in your hands, and the weaker party is not to be summarily handed leverage in exchange for future assurances. The situation is one where GoI is the party in crisis, not the temples. The moment you hand over anything to the other party, you're at the mercy of their integrity at following the complicated set of rules that have been proposed.

An analogous proposal is to hand over the territory of cashmere to TSP, with the requirement that a) they call it Indian territory b) retain pre-1989 ethnic mix and c) pay us a per-annum fee. If they fail at any of this, they are to hand the whole territory back to us. This should work out well, yes ? What could possibly go wrong ?

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 06 Sep 2013 06:31

Why temples
Why not auction Wakf board properties and burial grounds they can fetch more money than gold,
Because gold price is limited by international trade,.

Where as real estate 1000 sq yards can fetch more than half a quintal of gold in some prime areas

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Sep 2013 07:24

http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial ... 18059.aspx
The enigma of silence
Turd Khaaj Desai

UPA 1 and UPA 2, Sonia Gandhi has been the Phantom of the political opera, the shadowy figure residing behind the forbidding walls of 10 Janpath, wielding enormous clout through the extra constitutional National Advisory Council but with limited accountability. As UPA 2 in particular has been buffeted by one storm after another, Sonia has been mostly missing in action. The target of Opposition ire has been mostly Manmohan Singh, a prime minister reduced to a silent, forlorn figure by the relentless opposition campaign.But the politics underlying Sonia Gandhi's return to centre-stage are important. For the last four years, either because of health concerns or deliberate choice, Mrs Gandhi has chosen not to play a dominant role within the UPA power structure. At least in UPA 1, she was there for the prime minister in difficult times, like during the Indo-US nuclear deal. In UPA 2, by contrast, she has been mostly a backstage player, staying away when the government faced a series of crises, from Anna's agitation to corruption scandals to inter-ministerial squabbles.
From time to time, there have been whispers that the Manmohan-Sonia equation has broken down, though this speculation has never been supported by hard evidence.What is more likely is that after the UPA returned to power in 2009, Sonia Gandhi had almost decided to 'abdicate' the throne like a royal Queen Mother. The prevailing belief then was that Rahul Gandhi would, at some stage, take over the reins of party and government. The politics behind food security and the land acquisition Bill is designed to convince the Congress' traditional voter that the party's heart lies in jhuggi-jhopris, in large swathes of the countryside and in creating a Bharat-versus-India divide. India has changed, what has not is the Congress' mindset which believes that votes must be got from a sense of noblesse oblige to the 'poor' of this country. The Congress leadership maybe very much khaas admi, but its heart, we are told, lies with the aam admi. The narrative may seem awfully condescending, but for Congress workers this is the only politics they can truly relate to. Whether this strategy works in a low growth, double-digit inflation regime is highly questionable. What is certain is the next election will not be so much Rahul Gandhi versus Narendra Modi, as Sonia versus Modi. The Congress posters may well have the faces of Rahul and Manmohan along with Sonia, but in the trimurti, only Sonia really matters. If the Congress has any hope to survive the Modi juggernaut, its longest serving president has to step up to the podium again. Post-script: After Sonia's speech in Parliament, an Opposition leader asked a group of journalists: "You question us all the time, when will you do a no holds barred interview with Mrs Gandhi?" Good question. Our honest answer: how do you question someone who won't speak? Guess Sonia Gandhi's power revolves around the enigma of silence

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Sep 2013 07:30

the govt can also confiscate and sell off the vast lands granted in prime areas to the church & its umbrella institutions by the british admin of yore.
see how far that gets them.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Sep 2013 07:39

RamaY wrote:^ forgive me for saying this.

I said so (just read my posts on this topic). I expected the dhimmi intellect justifying this idea. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1506376

This is nothing but Dhimmitude. Why should temples give their money for Govt to get out of temple management, which is not a secular thing to begin?

Please save the hyperventilation. If you are interested, I can post here my tweets asking why Waqf board properties & Church lands cannot be auctioned.

That being said, I wanted to brainstorm if there is a strategic/economic advantage to be had by Hindus in this crisis. Keep in mind that it is the GOI that is coming to the temples with a begging bowl. We can dictate the terms of the deal if we choose to offer one

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Sep 2013 07:44

I trust you sir. The criticism is about the idea and even that line of thought.

GOI is not doing any favors to Indians, especially Hindus. They are servants of the nation. Them taking temple money is like a servant stealing the murthis from your puja room.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Sep 2013 07:46

Suraj wrote: I followed this post here from the economics thread.

This fails the most basic rules of negotiation - leverage must be in your hands, and the weaker party is not to be summarily handed leverage in exchange for future assurances. The situation is one where GoI is the party in crisis, not the temples. The moment you hand over anything to the other party, you're at the mercy of their integrity at following the complicated set of rules that have been proposed.

An analogous proposal is to hand over the territory of cashmere to TSP, with the requirement that a) they call it Indian territory b) retain pre-1989 ethnic mix and c) pay us a per-annum fee. If they fail at any of this, they are to hand the whole territory back to us. This should work out well, yes ? What could possibly go wrong ?

Suraj: there are both immediate and long term benefits to Hindu temples in my proposal. The immediate benefit is in the very first paragraph - i.e. handing over temple & its fund management to the temples and removal of the GOI hand from it for good. This is a pre-condition to the deal. You already extract your pound of flesh before giving up the first ounce of gold. This to me is the most important aspect of the deal. The monetary aspects are secondary. The reason we can demand this pound of flesh is precisely what you have articulated - the temples hold the upper hand in the negotiation. It is the GOI with the begging bowl. So, in addition to a nice financial package, we demand that the pre-condition be met.

The GOI mishandling of temple funds & temple management is a long standing strategic/financial problem for Hindus with no resolution in sight. Why not use this opportunity to nail that problem for good?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Sep 2013 07:53

I am assuming everyone here knows about the Govt control of temple trusts in India. See an example of the kinds of money from the temples that are under the control of the State/Central governments

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/1876444/r ... ple-trusts

This is what we should wrest back from the governments

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 06 Sep 2013 08:11

Why not sell off all the huge tracts of land being occupied by the Dinosaurs in Luytens Delhi and save India and BRF a religious war.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Sep 2013 08:18

Prem Kumar wrote:Suraj: there are both immediate and long term benefits to Hindu temples in my proposal. The immediate benefit is in the very first paragraph - i.e. handing over temple & its fund management to the temples and removal of the GOI hand from it for good. This is a pre-condition to the deal.

Look, the dynamics of negotiation is straightforward. You *never* let go of your leverage today in exchange for an assurance of future compliance. You get the compliance now in exchange for maybe handing over *some* of the leverage to them in future.

Put more simply, the stronger party's approach is always: 'what's mine (temples') is mine, and what's yours is what we are negotiating', not 'here's what's mine. now you give me what I seek and you dare not turn back on your word or you'll have to give me back my stuff'.

Say, you hand over the gold today, and GoI happily agrees never to interfere. Tomorrow it reneges. It responds to your irate 'but we had an AGREEMENT' with a response that if you don't keep quieten down, it'll make things even harder for you, and that you should be thankful for whatever printed money they hand you. What leverage do *you* now have ?

GoI floated a trial balloon suggesting it monetize the gold the temples hold. The leverage is the gold, in the temples' hand. It is their private property, not GoI's imputed baap ka maal to requisition. The appropriate response is to start by demanding fiscal reforms to temples as an initial gesture of faith, and that any handover of temple gold for bullion holding will be considered in conjunction with similar measures directed at the assets of all other faiths.