Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Sep 2013 14:46

Thanks Vikram..but i think it's important to give it to this Ashutosh guy..advocating an Anti-Blasphemy law through the back door as a solution only aids the Jihadi's.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 08 Sep 2013 16:03

Modi's secretly leading Indians towards a Civil War

Paki view of namo. Only this time its desi packees ... fun read... gives away the scaremonering formula to be used in muz ghettos come poll time...

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 08 Sep 2013 17:26

Bills won't win polls

SA Aiyer on why the FSA and LAB may not be vote winners for the INC.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 08 Sep 2013 17:31

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 08 Sep 2013 18:59

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1507765

eklavya wrote:
NRao wrote:What happens when waiters attempt to lead nations.
Poets and tea boys are so much better suited.

But this is the right thread.

.....................

My spider sense tells me its Priyanka that will be fielded. Buddhu is well too buddhu.

Ref. : spineless wonder's comment that he would be happy to serve under buddhu.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 08 Sep 2013 19:03

Here is one more long one, as a follow up post.

Amyrao wrote:Atri ji what you said also applies to APPolitics as you may know.

about AR Antulay he was the money making machine paying royalty to IG his unique way was allocation of cement and steel for building lobby and real estate sharks in Mumbai

Yes, you are right Amyrao ji..

Entire KG basin was one until Rashtrakutas broke up into Yadavas, Kakatiyas and Hoysalas (thus creating MH, AP and KN). Viijaynagar held AP and KN together for long time, but MH was outside. Marathas had to give up Hyderabad in 1715 because they could not afford to fight the artillery of Chin Qilich Khan (aka Nizam). Without this, the Rashtrakuta or the Saatvahana map would have been recreated. MH-AP-KN together forms Krishna-Godavari basin. The basic strands of polity in this region are similar. What changes is only the details.

About Abdul Rehman Antulay was a dynasty plant. He did his job perfectly. When it became difficult to sustain, he was called back.

disha wrote:^^ Great post Atriji., thanks for the succinct analysis on the power of pawar - always suspected that the dense network of cooperatives and banks and "farm houses" form the backbone., and here you come and clarify it through the haze.

Somewhere you quote
Various names like Choksi (the famous Hawala trader) along with owner of a well known Gutkha company (I think Moolchand) were part of all this.
I think it was Rasiklal Manekchand., from pune - created the famous Gutkha empire and infact has been said that he helped Dawood setup factory in Karachi to "manufacture" Gutkha.

Thanks for the correction, Disha ji.. Yes, it was manikchand gutkhawala..

nachiket wrote:Atri ji that was a wonderful post. Your knowledge of the history and politics of Maharashtra is second to none.

Also tells us why there is little hope for NaMo magic to work in Maharashtra and significantly improve the poll performance of the BJP-SS alliance in the upcoming election. People may individually revere NaMo, but that is unlikely to cause much of an impact on voting patterns.

I was hoping to see NaMo and BJP try to aggressively target my home state and try and wrest it from the congis. A natural step to expand out of Gujarat. But now I feel their efforts would be more successful elsewhere.

People may vote for NM in 2014 Loksabha elections, Nachiket ji.. But they will not vote for BJP in state assembly elections. THere is no visible leader for MH-BJP. Hence this victory will not be sustainable and will be an aberration just like 1998/99 elections. If NaMo is projected as PM, for loksabha at least, many people will vote for BJP. For effective governance, as I have said repeatedly on this thread, the power from Gram-panchayats, local-bodies, trade unions and student unions should be won. Only then the order and power from center flows effortlessly and translated into results effectively. The good policies of NM will be implemented by INC-NCP governed local bodies. They will be the visible face of reforms and eat the mevaa.

Rudradev wrote:1) There was a vast flight of industry out of MH following the '61 movement, the Sena's mobilization against Gujaratis, and (the last straw) the Datta Samant agitation among the Mumbai textile workers in the '70s. Was this process in fact engineered, or at least encouraged in some fashion, by the Saakar-Deshmukhs? After all, a vibrant industry located close to the centre of MH political power could have upset the equation between the Saakar-Deshmukhs (whose power was agro-economical) and Delhi, and also provided an avenue for the entry of other, unpredictable players who might potentially destabilize the political calculus. Relative to manufacturing industries, the newer entrants to Mumbai post the 1980s were in the financial sector... something more abstract, and hence not as threatening to the Saakar-Deshmukhs. Financial types are also far less willing to get their "hands dirty", so to speak, than mill-owners... and hence, leave much more space for power aspirants of the Dawood variety.

The Saakhar-Samrats (Sugar-emperors as they are referred to in Marathi) hold on Mumbai was by proxy. Mumbai herself was always in hands of posh-cosmopolitans like SK Patil or communists or Shivsena. After the strikes of 1980s (I find a strange connection with Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and this deterioration of Mumbai's economic structure), you are correct to observe that the factories started leaving Mumbai. I think this has been the policy of MH and Mumbai ever since. All the chemical and textile factories moved to Valsad-Surat-Ankaleshwar belt of Gujarat. I think Madhavsingh Solanki and later Chimanbhai Patel engineered this shift. All these companies had their offices in Mumbai and factories in Gujarat ever since.

Dawood essentially operates (financially speaking) through builders and bollywood. The enormous plots which these businessmen owned (which were now and many of them still are vacant) became prime targets for real-estate developers. The land-rates of Mumbai started increasing ever since (post 1987) because of strong competition between various "builders" to get hold of the land. This is also the beginning of new chapter of Mumbai-underworld. Earlier in Karim lala and Haji mastan phase of underworld, the gundas became big by age-old Gold-liquor-electronic items-drugs smuggling. Due to import restrictions prevalent in Nehruvian India, we are in perpetual state of rationing and deficiency. The dubai gold kept prices under control.

With sudden availability of the vacant mill-plots (all mills had and have court-cases pending since 30 years - an entire generation of maharashtrians was rendered jobless due to this communist mischief), the jobs of "taking care of troublesome union leaders", "persuading land-owners", Ironing out the difficulties required muscle which police could not provide.

The Sugar-lobby was a bystanding beneficiary only. Since 1978, the urban-development portfolio of MH is always handled by INC and by the CM of the state. ALWAYS. Urban-development means money from builders. This has become extremely efficient way of raising money. It is said by the chaiwalas that a certain very handsome CM of MH who recently passed away, used to send around 10,000 crore rupees to the firangi Madam of delhi every month. He was sent back as CM because his replacement was not doing the job properly.

It is the game between land-owners and builders. Many land-owners themselves became builders. The Sugar-lobby gets a cut for not doing anything and bulk of that cut goes to emperor in delhi. That is the chauth which is agreed upon. Sugar-lobby has rest of MH to "raise the revenue" so to speak. This is one more reason why there cannot be a sustainable dharmik government in center, unless this flow of money from Mumbai to Delhi is stopped. Nothing in this country can stand in front of 10000 crore rupees per month (figures are 7-8 years old) kind of money. Add to that the bollywood-industrialist circuit which actually owns and entertains the country living in South Mumbai and Juhu. With Mumbai has their Kamdhenu, INC laughingly responds to all genuine questions by people like NaMO, "Mere paas maa hain"..

Mukes bhaay appoints so many ministers in his dukaan. The role of Tatas in 2G is so obvious, but who can speak against Tatas. As Subbu Swamy said in his speech, G D Birla declared his annual income as 18,000 rupees only

Dilli-billi can do only so much. They have to beg in front of these South-Mumbai wala maai-baaps for Rokda. It is this unhealthy nexus (which nauseatingly romanticized by bollywood, in exchange of a cut from Bhai, Seths, babus and Netas) which fuels and funds Dilli-billi cocktail circuit. The film "Guru" was nauseating. There was this post about Ambani doing a Hindu revolt against the Parsi lobby on GDF a while ago. I am not able to find that because I am not able to recall the poster. While that is true, the way this is romanticized further lowers the moral standing of society.

The young-India press scandal which Swamy filed against queen bee and rahul baba was very smart move. But with CBI as popat, nothing can be done and nothing will be done.

Rudradev wrote:2) You seem convinced that the Saakar-Deshmukhs allowed SS-BJP to win in 95, and just as easily ensured their replacement by a Congress-NCP govt in 99. I have to ask... what efforts were made by any of the players in the Manohar Joshi govt, whether Thackeray or Mahajan or Munde, to woo the Saakar-Deshmukh system ideologically away from the Congress moorings that were YB Chavan's legacy? After all, as you point out, their primary loyalty is to themselves and the system they perpetuate, and their broader loyalty is staunchly nationalistic, but they are not necessarily beholden to the Die Nasty. Why could they not have been incorporated as a MH anchor of the NDA, especially with a Vajpayee govt. in charge in New Delhi? Why could Pawar himself not have been swayed to join the nationalist coalition? He had many reasons of his own to resent not only Sonia Gandhi but many others who had thwarted his ambitions after Rajiv's assassination.

None.. There is nothing to "ideologically" lure away Sugar lobby from INC. Sugar-lobby is with INC not because of ideological connections. It is purely financial and political arrangements. INC can offer them much more. INC, for example, can put pressure on TSP to make Dawood sing OR stop singing. INC too has the access to IB and kaangressi babus and judges. INC has tremendous leverage across border and in west. All the Hawala transactions of sugar-lobby people happen through these trans-national conduits which is overseen by INC or the C-system. Look at they way INC suppressed Vohra report. Look at the way INC suppressed the narco-test results of AK Telgi in 33,000 Crore stamp-paper scam of early 2000s. Everything is hush hush. Every one knows which names were taken by Telgi. But like Voldemort, they remain unnamed. Could BJP have provided such security to Sugar-lobby? did they have the necessary clout? And even if they had, would you (and I and other evil SDRE Yindoos like us) like BJP going soft of Dawood and TSP? BJP tried to be in everyone's good books and did not rock this boat. hence they lost in 2004. They were expected to rock the boat and give some dhoom-dhadaka. But Mahajan et al became lackeys of Anil Ambani.

There was a huge scandal in MH when Manohar Joshi was appointed CM. You might remember this. I did not know you were from Mumbai.. Where in Mumbai, if I may ask?

The scandal was due the fact that Joshi was a brahmin. The propaganda started that the rule of "Peshwas" have returned now the non-brahmins will be persecuted and forced to tie brooms on their musharrafs became popular in Sugar-lobby heartlands. Shivsena, with all its negatives has two redeeming features. They are uncompromising on Hindutva and they NEVER play politics of caste. It is only Shivsena where a person can raise to second-highest position (highest are reserved for Thakres, of course) irrespective of caste or social background. Especially in politics of MH, Shivsena was only party for brahmins of western MH.

Joshi "sir" (as he is popularly known) was a great Upasaka of Sri Lakshmi. This aradhana of Lakshmi is legendary only, with Narada himself retelling those tales to the pesky mortals of all three lokas. This was encouraged by a person named Pramod Mahajan as well. Brother-in-law of Mahajan and friend, Munde, too was quite helpful in this project. This is when Gadkari ji shined as minister and entrepreneur. It is due to funds from these 4 years that they could finally win 182 in 1999 and allies to fill in the remainder.

But despite of all this, I give them full marks. They changed MH for good. Especially Nitin Gadkari, his term as public-works minister (PWD) is legendary (and I am using this term positively). The network of state-highways, national-highways, flyovers in Mumbai, express-ways, Worli-Sea link, MUTP and Mumbai metro and roads in remotest villages of MH became smooth and better. All these plans which are slowly materializing in Mumbai and MH are all brainchild of Gadkari.

In those 4 years, the mumbai-builder lobby and bollywood was doing jayjaykaar of these people and these people were loving it. Mumbai is indeed a "Mayanagari", and these people despite being Mumbaikars, were lured into the glaze of Juhu-Bandra-South Mumbai party circuit. Despite being in Mumbai, they never had access to such riches. People all over state were seeing this. Progress done, but at what cost. Corruption was rampant (although not as much as INC). Making roads, for example, means awarding contracts. Forcing contractors to build good roads means their assured annual income (of building same road every year) is lost. Furthermore, all the contractors in interior MH belonged to the Sugar-lobby power structure. They won MLAs and MPs level but not on Gram-panchayat, ZP and tradeunion level. ABVP and ABVS (Sena union) is strong all over MH in campuses (thanks to Gadkari, Munde and Raj Thakre) so that is not the problem. BMS was rendered irrelevant with factories moving out of Mumbai. So was kamgar Sena (which held on govt jobs).

There are talks of Pawar and Sena joining hands. But it never materialized. such rumors are spread every now and then. With BT kicking the bucket and SP about to, there is going to be a huge vacuum in MH. NCP will split again between nephew-section and daughter section. The elite marathas will gravitate towards nephew, the liberal Marathas and OBCs will gravitate towards daughter (at least that is how they are gaming it).

ranjbe wrote:S.K.Patil was a Kudaldeshkar Gaud Brahmin from the Konkan (this caste also had surnames such as Thakur), who was independently rich (he owned the Coca Cola franchise for Mumbai), and often in agreement with the Gujarati businessman group who did not want Mumbai to be part of Maharashtra. Not many Maharashtrians know this - they assume he was a Maratha because of his surname. Patil, like Patel, is a occupational name (head of village), and a few non-Marathas (mainly from the Konkan) had this last name. S.K.Patil, incidentally, was the first unabashedly 'pro-capitalism' votary in Maharashtra INC, and was responsible for getting the PL480 food aid from the USA, during the food crisis late 60's.

I did not know about Sakaa Patil being Kudal deshkar. You're right, I was going by the surnames. Thanks for the addition. Yes while SK was pro-capitalism, he was the one who ordered police firing on SMS activists resulting in 105 deaths. But he did not leave IG during Syndicate breach. Patil was friends of gujju businessmen was advocating making Mumbai a UT. That would have given direct access to Delhi in affairs of Mumbai. He was pro-capitalist in talk only. Else he would have joined the syndicate.

10 years later in 1978, Devraj Urs split for form what is derisively called Chaddi Congress (Chavan-Reddy Congress), to tap the JP wave and stay in power in MH.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 08 Sep 2013 20:03

+ 108
t'p ase t' palne atri ji !!
Please to continue.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Sep 2013 21:36

we have all the sapta brahma rishis in br.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 08 Sep 2013 21:56

SaiK wrote:karu-nai-nidhi (black-dog-treasure) -is a- seemandhraite by inheritence.

there is a reason when i say the name "rajnikanth".. TN has a history from MGR.. (mallo), KN (andhra), and jaya (kannad). so, rajnikanth fits being a mahrashtrian.

Tamils are great followers. They are led by others. next time you might hear them being led by Bihari or Jharkhandi given the fan following Dhoni commands in TN. That attitude also disproves that they are having narrow and regional world view. One can not be faulted for protecting their interest.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 08 Sep 2013 23:34

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Subramanian Swamy

What an inauguration for new EVM machines !! Congress loses Noksen(Nagaland) seat by election held with the new 'Voter Verifiable Paper Audit Trail' (VVPAT) EVM. Go UPA go before you are kicked out.
-Dr Subramanian Swamy

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Sep 2013 23:51

Karunanidhi comes from a Isai Vellalar community.

Tamils are great followers. They are led by others.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 09 Sep 2013 01:01

SwamyG wrote:Karunanidhi comes from a Isai Vellalar community.

Tamils are great followers. They are led by others.

currently they are not leaders of men but followers of women, no?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Sep 2013 01:52

karuna, vaiko, ramdoss, vijaykanth, et al are telugus or cross gene pool too. why would they un-hide it in the wiki of all the places?

btw, when polygamy is in play it is hard to prove anything.

check our evr/periyar - wiki reflects correct, he is a kannadiga(mother tongue).

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Sep 2013 02:55

gakakkad wrote:>madarsas prop up with hawala money...not fdi...and that is already happening ...i have no problem problem if an Arab, or even a paki entity purchases ,Indian infra-bonds...by doing so they are giving their balls in our hand...not the other way round...

imagine this scenario:
infra bond is issued for delhi-mumbai HSR ...dus percenti and mush buy 2billion dollars worth of each ...we go to war with pakee .... mush wd be like "hey don't bomb us ,we have 4b worth of bonds in your hsr project" ...even sounds laughable...

while the idea of pakee funding an HSR in India ,may seem outright repulsive to some , it seems shrewd and mercantile to me ...

not letting them buy infra-bonds won't hamper them of investing in madarssa's through hawalla..

a smart gov't would let pakee's sink there money in deshland ,while preventing them from getting to terrorists/madarssa's through hawalla.

Again, you are missing the point by a mile...a "smart govt" is your basic assumption. Go look at the internal security thread and see the smartness of current Govt. They are least bothered about national security blah blah which we on BRF go on about. The money will be just used for lining their accounts, some delayed potholes will be the so called infra and in return we will mortgage whatever remains of indian security, with preachers etc officially given sanction to do what they do. In contrast, hawala is still illlegal and hence somewhat discouraged. This is making a virtue out of a vice assuming current GOI is some great lover of the indian public. There are dime a dozen politicos linked to the worst kinds of mafia types, national security is currently a joke, and now we want to legalize gelf involvement in indian politics via legal money flows, all in the name of development? Wonderful. Enough Indians will line up to sell themselves and everything around them for a share of the pie and this time around, even the token illegality wont be there for them to be stopped or investigated. This is a country where currently bribes are being packaged as offsets.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 09 Sep 2013 03:18

There is no such thing called telugu gene pool or tamil gene pool or marathi gene pool or uttar pradeshi gene pool.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Sep 2013 03:30

i know.. but naam ke vaste yaar.. we can even create a gene per caste... and down the future 1000 years, it shall mutate into one. who knows, they may be even called in TN with names like mgr gene pool, amma gene pool...

the point is, the faction and separation is hardline stance and aam people of that state are not coming out of their mindsets. whatever is shown for public display, is just to say, they are not for divide.. but internally, many of them within parties, places, and 'gene pools', are focused on divide and rule policy.

hail mk for that.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Sep 2013 04:17

Saik,

Careful. There many skeletons in NM's own personal history. So far other than some exception a politicians personal life has been not important. Better it stay that way....

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Sep 2013 04:27

LOL, so after warning north indians "on behalf of" south indians (nvm both would tell him to take a hike), Theo is now warning SaiK about NM so as to not raise anything about beloved TN politicos...ROTFL only.. kya theka leke rakha hain TN ka ji inhonen..!

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 09 Sep 2013 04:57

Atri wrote:There was this post about Ambani doing a Hindu revolt against the Parsi lobby on GDF a while ago. I am not able to find that because I am not able to recall the poster......

Vilayat ji had made a couple of posts on that here, I think Bji also made a few:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1425646

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 09 Sep 2013 05:18

oh, no problem at all. let the standard bearers of various regions warn darkly of various things. no problem at all.
those who are destined to go down will go down. those who are destined to struggle will struggle. it is the goal of struggle that differentiates people. not the struggle factor. all will struggle for their own goals. it is he/she with the consistent clarity of goals that will win. now or 100 years from now.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 09 Sep 2013 05:26

Theo_Fidel wrote:Saik,

Careful. There many skeletons in NM's own personal history.

everything is out in the open. Theo.
There has been no politician in the entire history of India and the world who has been subjected to such intense scrutiny as NaMo. everything small and seemingly innocuous staements or any dirt on his personal life has been trashed in the hopes of making some dent of his popularity but all have fallen flat.

So far other than some exception a politicians personal life has been not important. Better it stay that way...

how convenient as usual for termite queen and her teflon family.

You are as usual making some mealy mouthed statements and escape after saying them.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Sep 2013 05:34

my struggle is to break the caste system from governance .. make it private worship or protected community behavior who cares? wtf bring caste base reservations and dvision of indic society.. gone are the days, to say because of brahmin attrocities the other castes were considered poor.. uplift etc.. all these are fine, but it is not fetching what we should if we are thinking about competing global.. the same caste once arrives in massa, is all broken to pieces.. absolutely all are considered equal, and in fact the dravidian or sdmes are out performing accredited cross belted communities. shows to prove there is nothing in the governance, but it is all about opportunities.. but what have we setup? opportunity to do corruption.. swindle, and establish deep deep corruption.. is this what reservations is all about? gov jobs are useless, and people never work.. bureaucracy for corruption, established evil setups, is all they have achieved since independence.

spade is a spade... tam is tam, gult is a gult. diversities are welcome and is great to have.. but gov setup can't be partial on diverse setup.. it can't be a diverted setup. desh needs to lick their wounds and learn from massan firang setup on these.. equality, at least from ways of living. common laws to nothing out in public that is for the whites or blacks, or browns.. let alone the community behavior.. for example 2 sikhs got shot dead - hate crimes.. but, does the gov setup aid that? no.

desh has a segregation setup.. this has to go.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 09 Sep 2013 05:34

BSP and Congress to go for alliance in UP. Game over for everyone else. The muslim +dalit combo in UP is just unbeatable. Modi can kiss good bye to his PM ambition.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Sep 2013 05:39

^^Is this confirmed, murlairavi? If so, I fear you are right. Its game over and UPA3 will become reality.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Sep 2013 05:40

that means either pappu or sonia ji is the pm for upa3vasis.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 09 Sep 2013 05:46

Hari Seldon wrote:^^Is this confirmed, murlairavi? If so, I fear you are right. Its game over and UPA3 will become reality.

http://newindianexpress.com/thesundayst ... 73387.ece1

So far it looks well on track

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Sep 2013 05:59

I doubt that. I still believe NM is going to get 272+.

If BJP goes without NM, then they will stop at 150 max, they may even get less than 2009.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 09 Sep 2013 06:23

Well if it's game over, I guess we can shut this thread down on Muraliravi's say-so.

But seriously, is this the congress strategy? Announce the tie-up, then declare early elections before the opposition can recover. And before the economy goes further downhill.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 09 Sep 2013 06:44

sudarshan wrote:Well if it's game over, I guess we can shut this thread down on Muraliravi's say-so.

But seriously, is this the congress strategy? Announce the tie-up, then declare early elections before the opposition can recover. And before the economy goes further downhill.

Well crunch the numbers how ever you want, even if Modi gets all the pre-poll alliances intact (yeddy, marandi, inld etc..), BJP cannot get more than 125-130 seats excluding UP and Bihar. In bihar their upper ceiling is 15 (congress will go for alliance with RJD and Paswan for sure). So thats 140 even even for BJP with Bihar. So all that is left is UP.

For BJP to have any reasonable chance of forming a government or even propping up a jayalalitha or someone like her type govt which is essentially anti congress, they need 155-160 seats at a min. Are you telling me that if congress and bsp go together, BJP can get 15 seats in UP.

I just dont see that happening. unless muslims fragment their vote between SP and congress. Even if they stick with SP and the fwd caste leave congress/bsp high and dry and shift to BJP i will be happy.

That is probably the only ray of hope for BJP. But if muslims move en masse to congress/bsp combo, i think in UP its game over. and if BJP cannot break the ice in UP, in India too its game over.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Sep 2013 06:44

Saik, All over the world the right ward folks have this tendency to be sanctimonious while ignoring the private complications going on in their own back yard. The world is very complicated. It is best not to play with fire. And No, once in USA the caste division are NOT removed. What ever gave you that idea? IME the caste divisions can be even more tenacious once in USA because there is the money to indulge in it. In India people have no choice but to mingle, not so in USA.

When you are a NI you are expected to behave in a certain way in SI and vice versa. This is true of all parts of India. NM should be careful not to listen to his lotus eating followers.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Sep 2013 06:51

RamaY wrote:I doubt that. I still believe NM is going to get 272+.

If BJP goes without NM, then they will stop at 150 max, they may even get less than 2009.

some more details from where the additional 122 you got from?

theo, i'm not playing fire without water and air to my side.. i fear nothing if i'm on the right track. the world on the other side of caste is heaven. you need to cross that yellow sea to experience it.

i'm not talking about money power... nor the kind you are thinking.. of power and controls.. you are talking about the impossible, that is making inter-caste mergers etc .. no no .. my ammo on that would definitely be defeated by the fire.

my caste reference (please read again) is to ban it from administration and governance.. no policies, no reservations, no jobs, quotas etc.. governance is different.. private and protected ways of living is different. i don't care a heck how different caste live or what they do with money power.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 09 Sep 2013 06:59

Just for reference here is the UP demographics

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Sep 2013 07:00

Theo_Fidel wrote:Saik, All over the world the right ward folks have this tendency to be sanctimonious while ignoring the private complications going on in their own back yard. The world is very complicated. It is best not to play with fire. And No, once in USA the caste division are NOT removed. What ever gave you that idea? IME the caste divisions can be even more tenacious once in USA because there is the money to indulge in it. In India people have no choice but to mingle, not so in USA.

Which society this is not true? Is South TN different from this? Is a Muslim different from this (will a Arap treat a paki same)? Is a Christian different from this (Will a WASP treat fellow African/Asian Christian same?)?

I am asking this question because you pulled caste from somewhere.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Sep 2013 07:03

Theo_Fidel wrote:Saik, All over the world the right ward folks have this tendency to be sanctimonious while ignoring the private complications going on in their own back yard. The world is very complicated. It is best not to play with fire. And No, once in USA the caste division are NOT removed. What ever gave you that idea? IME the caste divisions can be even more tenacious once in USA because there is the money to indulge in it. In India people have no choice but to mingle, not so in USA.

When you are a NI you are expected to behave in a certain way in SI and vice versa. This is true of all parts of India. NM should be careful not to listen to his lotus eating followers.

Hey dude, enough of this funny warning sharning about "When you are a NI you are expected to behave in a certain way in SI and vice versa." - you are nobody to speak for SI. I can claim to be both NI and SI and dont give a fig about who is what where..there are far more of us Indians versus you wannabe self-id'ed Lemurians or original Dravidians or whatever who don't even live in India but fan the flames ...

And yeah many SI's are the most rabid supporters of NM, including a DMK politico family whom i met only a couple of weeks back and were busy detailing how big boss and family are complete money chasers and only 1-2 guys are worth the leadership mantle....they too would laugh at your characterizations...sorry boss, looks your parochialism has left you unhinged..

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 09 Sep 2013 07:06

Are the riots in UP to be viewed in terms of any future alliance between INC and BSP?

OT: Why is Kumari kandam Model look down upon?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Sep 2013 07:27

from dwaraka, atlantis to grand canyons.. you can get all the model in sync.. but what can modi do about it?

even the vedas can't help anyone nor the bible or quran is all for the past people. it does not apply to build infrastructure, facilities, commerce or economics. we have to see what it can provide to take us the next step to realize it, while keeping the agendas private and protected far far away from gov dealings.

gov's job is to ensure free and fair setup, and encourage growth and competition... not caste based segragtion - education, job, quotas, and craps. get it out of this.. it is entirely possible for our next gen kids benefits.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Sep 2013 07:40

Who knew theo is interested in the namo-namo dhaga only.... Lol...

Eerily surfaces to spray BS and scoot. Classic thread-disruption tactics.

Does he think that *any* ammo on NM wouldn't have been splashed far and wide already? What's the incentive for the psec crowd to hold back I wonder?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Sep 2013 07:43

There is a little bit of speculation the it reflects land that was lost due to the recent 300 foot sea level rise since 4000 BC. But I discount it.

My own view is the Kumari Kandam is ancient Psy-ops. A bit of origin myth making. Most other cultures have/had similar mythologies though much is lost in time. TN folk are fortunate the texts are still extent. Having such an origin myth makes resistance absolute and the drive to take on the world strong. It has been good for TN.

It is looked down upon because it does not jive with the homogenizing impulses of the Northern elite. They want their orgin myth to be the only one. For a long time it was the favorite dream of the congress & Leftist wallahs. Now it appears this crowd has joined the right ward folk.
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Wow, how little they know their own hero....

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 09 Sep 2013 07:46

those % of up are wrong!!

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 09 Sep 2013 07:52

Hari Seldon wrote:^^Is this confirmed, murlairavi? If so, I fear you are right. Its game over and UPA3 will become reality.

Hari ji maybe tilak-taraaju-talwaar is going with BJP this time. With muzaffarpur mini-genocide of hindus plus other thousands around UP is also going to force them.

This time 10% Kurmi vote is also with BJP as Kalyan Singh is in.

So maybe there is still hope. Though I confess some wishful thinking on my part too.