J & K news and discussion

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Jul 2009 15:31

Another truism!

Yes absoluely that was spot on. Paki's know the world media is fickle, and they enjoy he moment of spotlight which shows/ puts India on the backfoot. So we get a bad press and people with lesser minds or too busy to follow things up assume wrongly. Knowing he media posts inconspicious 'regrets of error' messages, it serves Pakistan well. Less than 1% people will realize that Indian securrity forces did not do that. However it's the 1% that keeps growing and with that India's credibility goes up, Paki's goes down. India has done no good PR to counter Paki's because we do have WKK type politicians, who're surprized everytime a errorist act happens. Very few people recognize the 'intrinsic' Paki perfidy.

Sometimes i think the Mahabharatha may not be ithihas but a revelation for what the future is. Were the Pandavas and Krishna not dhimmi to the Kauravas? So as someone mentioned in the Bojitive newj dhaga, the Pakauravas beg for dollars, Dronacharyas drop several thousands of pounds (of ammo)..who did the Chinese King side in the Mahabharatha? Pakauravas?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Jul 2009 15:35

But this state is the "best case scenario" for India in the foreseeable future. A Pakistan that is unbalanced, nervous, thrashing about, in an very very unstable disequilibrium...A stable Pakistan would like a china with jihadi predilections (nukes, focused national objectives et al)....... A broken up Pakistan will be a nightmarish scenario of multiple mad custodians of nukes, something like 3 or 4 North Koreas in our backyard, jihadis to boot!

I think the opposite will be true. If Pakisan breaks into different states, there will be immediate water disputes beween Sindh/ Baluchistan and Punjab on one side. Kashmir will have no relevance. Punjab will have to stave itself off both it's Souhern adn northern Pashtu cousins. Something the cannot do without US/India's help. So the RAPE class will be ready to give up nukes and claims of Kashmir just to keep as much water and negotiating port access. Remember the IWT also falls apart in that scenario.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jul 2009 16:16

somnath, nothing was a scarier scenario than the break up of a massively nuclearized Former Soviet Union. Strategic weapons, their delivery systems, capability to build advanced nukes, labs, stockpiles of fissile material, testing sites were scattered all over the vast corners of the FSU. Those have been taken care of pretty diligently. Pakistan can therefore be handled too, much more easily. More than India, the US, Russia and China cannot let that nightmarish scenario happen. India will, of course, pitch into whatever efforts that are mounted by these nations. The scenario of 3 or 4 nuke-armed North Koreas in our backyard is unlikely. The world would see one less nuke-rogue nation, in fact. Jihadis are a different matter though as the whole Pakistani nation is jihadi in nature and the break-up may not dent their strength.

Pakistan may 'appear' to be a moribund state but that is something it has managed to maintain without actually dying and it is quite capable of continuing the same way for another 50 years with friends continuing to prop it up though not as enthusiastically as before. Pakistan can continue to threaten everyone with 'dire consequences' and sustain the aid inflows for the foreseeable future.

However much it may appear to be 'unstable' and 'de-focussed', yet, its focus on destroying India is unwavering and its vision on that score is 20/20.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 15 Jul 2009 19:39

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/07 ... .html?_r=1

SRINAGAR, India (AP) -- A court in Indian-run Kashmir ordered the arrest of four police officers Wednesday for allegedly destroying evidence in the rape and murder of two women that triggered violent protests last month.

Barin Ghosh, chief justice of the Jammu-Kashmir High Court, also DNA samples from the four men to be matched with the semen found on the bodies of the two women -- a 17-year-old girl and her 22-year-old sister-in-law.

A good development/precedent. Enforces accountability of the police force and will help in restoring faith in government institutions to the general public. Will also help in taking the wind out of the separatists game plan of keeping the atmosphere vitiated...

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Jul 2009 20:04

A good development/precedent. Enforces accountability of the police force and will help in restoring faith in government institutions to the general public. Will also help in taking the wind out of the separatists game plan of keeping the atmosphere vitiated...

Indeed. Except, that it was not what the propaganda states. (I am minutes away from my signal fading..) but it's always a beter choice that transparency dominates. Media is irresponsible. The mistakes they commit in sensationalism are rarely never acknowledged with te same inensity. In another post i mentioned thats what the Paki's take advantage off.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jul 2009 20:06

Its like Mordor and will wake up and turn a nigthmare into reality. Hence it has to be broken up.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jul 2009 03:59

The Jan Commission report makes powerful reading as to how entrusted officials subverted the system and allowed situation to develop out of control. Also is a good indictment of lack of good governance.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 16 Jul 2009 06:12

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... 782636.cms

SRINAGAR: Within hours of Jammu & Kashmir High Court directing police’s Special Investigation Team to arrest four suspended cops, collect their DNA samples and subject them to the naro analysis test in connection with the alleged rape and murder of two Shopian women, the four were arrested on Wednesday.

The four — then SP Shopian Javid Iqbal Mattoo, his deputy Rohit Baskot, SHO Shakil Ahmad and SI Gazi Abdul Karim — were suspended on the recommendations of an inquiry commission for destroying the evidence. An FIR was also registered against them.

A division bench of Chief Justice Barin Ghosh and Justice M Yaqub Mir directed the cops to conduct the narco analysis test on the four at the Gujarat Forensic Science Laboratory as the facility wasn’t avaliable in J&K. ‘‘The civilian witnesses, who have deposed before SIT, should also be subjected to the test,’’ the bench said. The SIT is investigating the case.

The court wondered as to why the four weren’t arrested and interrogated so far even as the FIR was lodged against them. ‘‘The four should be arrested and produced before the judicial registrar to take their DNA samples. The samples should be matched with the semen found on the victim’ bodies,’’ the court said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jul 2009 10:17

US will not have a special Kashmir envoy

"I can assure you we are not going to appoint a special Kashmir envoy," US Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asia Robert Blake told reporters.

"This is longstanding US policy that this is an issue that needs to be worked between India and Pakistan, and we do not have plans to appoint an envoy," Mr. Blake said, on the eve of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's India visit.

Despite pressure from certain quarters, the Obama Administration has been consistent in its stand that the Kashmir issue could only be resolved by dialogue between India and Pakistan and that there is no role for the US in it.

Hari · Post by **Hari** » 16 Jul 2009 10:58

Misrepresentation of facts by media...a threat to National Integrity and security.

NEW DELHI: Ever since May, when the bodies of two women washed up near Shopian, journalists have chronicled the multiple failures of administration and policing that allowed the tragic deaths to spark off some of the worst street violence ever seen in Jammu and Kashmir.

Following the release of the findings of the Justice Muzaffar Jan Commission of Enquiry on Friday, the Jammu and Kashmir government has announced that it intends to prosecute four police officials for some of those failures.

But both journalists and the Jammu and Kashmir government have maintained a stoic silence on one institution blamed by Justice Jan for spreading falsehood and inciting violence: the media itself.

Stories fabricated?

Justice Jan’s report highlights disturbing evidence that some journalists may have fabricated elements of their stories.

Early in June, several Srinagar-based journalists reported that one victim’s husband had received a call from her at 7 p.m. on May 29. During the call, the accounts said, the victim reported that she was being chased by CRPF personnel.

In their testimony to the Jan Commission, though, the victim’s husband and her brother made it clear that she had never owned a mobile phone, a fact first reported in this newspaper. Jammu and Kashmir police investigators attached to the Commission studied 32,686 cellphone calls made in Shopian on May 29, and were able to establish that none was made to or from any phone that may have been in the victim’s possession.

Efforts were also made by sections of the media to suggest that the local police may have sought to hush up the case on the orders of their superior. Journalists in particular turned on Constable Mohammad Yaseen, who was reported to have made several phone calls to superiors even as a search for the victims’ bodies was underway — evidence, it was argued, of the unusual interest of his bosses in the case.

In fact, the Commission found, Mr. Yaseen had made only four calls during the whole day and none between 10 p.m. on June 29, when the search for the victims began, until 6 a.m. on June 30, when the bodies were found.

Local resident Jamal-ud-Din Wani, claimed by the media to be an eyewitness to the killings, was alleged to have been abducted after the bodies were found. The Jan Commission found him living in a tent at the hamlet of Dehgam, close to Shopian, where he works as a watchman at a local seminary.

For the most part, Justice Jan found, the media misrepresented forensic evidence. Media accounts insisted that both women appeared to have been badly beaten and gang raped. However, the Jan Commission states, pathologists found no evidence to support the proposition of gang rape. Moreover, only one victim’s body was found to bear visible external injuries. Claims that one victim was pregnant at the time of her death, Justice Jan states, were also wrong.

Perhaps in order to buttress claims that the two women had been raped before they were killed, some journalists asserted that their clothes were torn. However, witnesses interviewed by the Jan Commission said that the women’s Feran and shalwar were intact.

Most disturbing, though, is Justice Jan’s finding that the media incited hatred by broadcasting communal propaganda.

Based on the accounts of individuals claiming to be eyewitnesses, newspapers said that one victim’s forehead had been smeared with sindoor — an allegation that suggested that the rapists were Hindus, and the rape itself macabre religion-driven hate crime. However, the Commission noted, the red marks on her forehead were in fact blood from a head wound. “The flow of blood,” the report states, “was shamefully distorted and projected as a mark of sindoor.”

Noting that this kind of reporting has fuelled violence in Jammu and Kashmir, Justice Jan has suggested that “firm guidelines are made to ensure that, before publication of any news, the authenticity of the news be verified.”

Corrections and Clarifications
The eighth paragraph of a report "Media misrepresented key facts on Shopian rape-murder" (July 12, 2009) was "In fact, the Commission found, Mr. Yaseen had made only four calls during the whole day and none between 10 p.m. on June 29, when the search for the victims began, and 6 a.m. on June 30, when the bodies were found." The dates are May 29 and May 30.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/12/stories ... 830800.htm

I dont think this twisting of facts happened accidently. I want to know other opinion

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 16 Jul 2009 12:05

I dont think this twisting of facts happened accidently. I want to know other opinion

You are right.These things don't happen accidently.One of the duties of any intelligence agency is the manipulation of media in the enemy country for the purpose of propaganda(false or otherwise).Considering what happened in this event , it seems ISI is doing its job quite well.While we continue to have a defensive mindset.

Hari · Post by **Hari** » 16 Jul 2009 12:41

Killing of women by militants were ignored by media . THis incident took place almost at the same time of Shopian.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 694735.cms

ISI is doing there job. Still no info on what we are doing to avoid this.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 16 Jul 2009 18:05

Hari wrote:http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/12/stories ... 830800.htm

I dont think this twisting of facts happened accidently. I want to know other opinion

Individuals pretending to be Journalists and organizations that hire such people, who deliberately distort facts and managements that don't maintain any sense of editorial oversight, thereby inciting inter-community hatred and anti-national sentiments need to be debarred from the profession, arrested and tried!

The media will howl, but they do that every day as a matter of right - without any sense of responsibility!

India needs free media... but there needs to be some sense of responsibility and good ethics in the practice of any profession.

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 16 Jul 2009 19:59

darshhan wrote:
I dont think this twisting of facts happened accidently. I want to know other opinion
You are right.These things don't happen accidently.One of the duties of any intelligence agency is the manipulation of media in the enemy country for the purpose of propaganda(false or otherwise).Considering what happened in this event , it seems ISI is doing its job quite well.While we continue to have a defensive mindset.

Hari/Darshan
You have correctly analyzed that it doesn't happen accidentally. There is an old saying in Intel Community, Nothing happens by chance or luck. Everything has a timeline, a source, and an objective. ISI has been working tirelessly on a multipronged strategy against us. Opeartion Topaz is very much still alive and kicking. One thing I have to give ISI credit for is they always plan and execute anti-India operations using very basic element that is Humans. They know they can't beat us in technology but due to their close proximity to us, they can definitely bleed us by using Jihadis. Most media personal from Kashmir are on their payroll, we know that but our hands are tied due to lack of credible leadership, undefined objective and social factor. We put up with it because gov't is scared if they purge 5th element journalist then whole world and media will cry oppression, freedom of press and other blah blah blah. I can tell you with great confidence that Indian Intel personal have no clue what is their objective, what are they suppose to do. Are they suppose to eliminate Enemies of this nation in this shadow war, are they suppose to just track and watch them, are they suppose to launch counter strike operations. Military and Para military forces are getting tired and fatigued because of continuous deployment in hot zone.
Now IMHO we can still turn this monster on its head and win..here are few suggestions
1. Try to scour old phone books from TSP. these phone books may have numbers that were later unlisted.

2. Have some agents get advanced journalism degrees, get them jobs in targeted media outlets, start manipulating them.
3. Fundamental rule of life as they say in Unkil land, everyone has a skeleton in their closet. Find it and use it
4. Get rid of these stupid 32, 38 specials. Assign Intel agents with glock or berretta.
5. Get your assets at places that caters to your enemies.
6. Get your people in land transportation companies, give some agents with little lee way to scratch and nibble on the underworld.

JMT

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jul 2009 21:50

Can't the government threaten to close all media outlets in J&K, which do not bring out a front page ad, saying:

1) The newspaper was irresponsible in printing unsubstantiated and sensational media stories on these rapes and murders.

2) They will not do it again.

and the journalists who carried these stories, should be booted out of these newspapers and blacklisted, regardless of whether they were just following editorial instructions or their own intuitions.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jul 2009 22:05

RajeshA wrote:Can't the government threaten to close all media outlets in J&K, which do not bring out a front page ad, saying:

1) The newspaper was irresponsible in printing unsubstantiated and sensational media stories on these rapes and murders.

2) They will not do it again.

and the journalists who carried these stories, should be booted out of these newspapers and blacklisted, regardless of whether they were just following editorial instructions or their own intuitions.

The crazy thing is even Justice Jan doesn't name the bad guys!

BTW the Jan Commission report is very informative. It says the whole criminal justice system from the District Magistrate to constable failed. In addition the autopsy doctors were callous and negligent in their work. Even the FSL lab head sat on the report for five hours before signing the forensic report prior to release. And all these lapses gave the separatists ammo to muddy the situation. And they pretended that they were covering for the CRPF camp nearby.

Read at a minimum the chapter five.

Naming the media that planted stories would identify the separatist or alienated folks. Someone doesnt want that. Some of the lapses were due to political factors. I think
some of those in charge delayed release to get back at the govt for they were partisans of the Opposition if not the separatists.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 17 Jul 2009 07:47

Another one on the unsuitability of CRPF

CRPF is a bit of an anachronism, a short cut sticky tape solution attempted to cover up the deficiencies in local policing capabilities..And perpetuated and expanded through the decades. Sooner they are replaced in J&K by the local police the better..

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 19 Jul 2009 01:51

From Kupwara to Kolkata, a cross-border love story ---- Praveen Swami

Pakistani terrorist Junaid Sheikh abandoned jihad and built a new life in Kolkata

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2009 09:10

Book Review: Approached to Kashmir Dispute - Khaled Ahmed

Among the many things,

According to a Sunday Times report, nine hundred UK Muslims are trained every year to fight in IOK, and ‘about 10 per cent of those stay and fight, the rest take their political and religious indoctrination and bring it back to their communities, mostly for fund-raising and recruitment.’ (p.56)

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 19 Jul 2009 09:12

Regarding the Srinagar airlift.

I have read snippets on Biju Patniak's role in the airlift. I gather he was a pilot in RIAF during WW-II in their transport command, and was involved in the planning and execution of the RIAF airlifts to the eastern theater. Concurrently, he was also secretly involved in flying Congress leaders around the country, and was imprisoned for his role in the freedom movement.

He was a close associate of Nehru, and apparently his help was sought in organizing the Srinagar airlift. The six civilian Dakotas that were the first wave were led by him, if I understand correctly. I know he had his own airline Kalinga air, and maybe the six civilian Dakotas were made available by him for this airlift.

Later he was involved with the CIA and ARC (Chkrata) to provide secret airlifts to the Tibetan resistance movement.

Anyone here have more details on Bijuda's doings during the war of 1947?

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 19 Jul 2009 10:37

Hillary: Kashmir should be in Pak talks

Is this not mediating ? then what esle is ??

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Jul 2009 18:56

Sir, the way things are going with India trying hard to become the poodle of US, wont be surprised if American officials turn up representing India in Indo-Pak talks on J&K one day...

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 20 Jul 2009 12:41

Y I Patel wrote:Regarding the Srinagar airlift.

I have read snippets on Biju Patniak's role in the airlift. I gather he was a pilot in RIAF during WW-II in their transport command, and was involved in the planning and execution of the RIAF airlifts to the eastern theater. Concurrently, he was also secretly involved in flying Congress leaders around the country, and was imprisoned for his role in the freedom movement.

He was a close associate of Nehru, and apparently his help was sought in organizing the Srinagar airlift. The six civilian Dakotas that were the first wave were led by him, if I understand correctly. I know he had his own airline Kalinga air, and maybe the six civilian Dakotas were made available by him for this airlift.

Later he was involved with the CIA and ARC (Chkrata) to provide secret airlifts to the Tibetan resistance movement.

Anyone here have more details on Bijuda's doings during the war of 1947?

I recall some description of his exploits in Gita Mehta's (his daughter) book 'Karma cola"?
A few more snippets here:
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/21/world ... =permalink

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 22 Jul 2009 08:49

Jawaharlal, do you want Kashmir, or do you want to give it away?

The cabinet meeting was presided by Mountbatten. There was Jawaharlal Nehru, there was Sardar Patel, there was Sardar Baldev Singh. There were other ministers whom I did not know and did not want to know, because I had nothing to do with them. Sardar Baldev Singh I knew because he was the minister for defence, and I knew Sardar Patel, because Patel would insist that V P Menon take me with him to the various states.

Almost every morning the Sardar would sent for V P, H M Patel and myself. While Maniben (Patel's daughter and de facto secretary) would sit cross-legged with a Parker fountain pen taking notes, Patel would say, 'V P, I want Baroda. Take him with you.' I was the bogeyman. So I got to know the Sardar very well.

At the morning meeting he handed over the (Accession) thing. Mountbatten turned around and said, ' come on Manekji (He called me Manekji instead of Manekshaw), what is the military situation?' I gave him the military situation, and told him that unless we flew in troops immediately, we would have lost Srinagar, because going by road would take days, and once the tribesmen got to the airport and Srinagar, we couldn't fly troops in. Everything was ready at the airport.

As usual Nehru talked about the United Nations, Russia, Africa, God almighty, everybody, until Sardar Patel lost his temper. He said, 'Jawaharlal, do you want Kashmir, or do you want to give it away'. He (Nehru) said,' Of course, I want Kashmir (emphasis in original). Then he (Patel) said 'Please give your orders'. And before he could say anything Sardar Patel turned to me and said, 'You have got your orders'.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Jul 2009 08:59

viv wrote: I recall some description of his exploits in Gita Mehta's (his daughter) book 'Karma cola"?
A few more snippets here:
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/21/world ... =permalink

''Resurgent India does not recognize Dutch colonial sovereignty over the Indonesian population,'' he said.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 22 Jul 2009 15:29

vera_k wrote:Jawaharlal, do you want Kashmir, or do you want to give it away?

As usual Nehru talked about the United Nations, Russia, Africa, God almighty, everybody, until Sardar Patel lost his temper. He said, 'Jawaharlal, do you want Kashmir, or do you want to give it away'. He (Nehru) said,' Of course, I want Kashmir (emphasis in original). Then he (Patel) said 'Please give your orders'. And before he could say anything Sardar Patel turned to me and said, 'You have got your orders'.

Sigh! As felt by many Indians , I again repeat, Sardar should have been our PM or atleast lived for another 10 to 15 yrs

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jul 2009 21:11

Indian Institute of Advanced Studies in Shimla is a very prestigous institute in India.

Contextualizing Kashmir Politics

Contextualizing the Kashmir Politics

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contextualizing the Kashmir Politics
Noor Ahmad Baba

Defining political context in case of Jammu and Kashmir is difficult as it involves complex dimensions; some of them rooted in developments of pre-partition days of the sub-continent. Jammu & Kashmir as it is known today evolved during the Dogra era/period (1846-1947). Under this regime, Jammu & Kashmir emerged into a heterogeneous polity with different regions and different ethnic groups differently related with the ruling dynasty and the state. The Dogra dynasty, on account of the very nature of the state formation and also because of the character of its politics, became discriminative in character. National movement under the leadership of Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah gained the secular, socialist complexion that was manifested in the programme of Naya Kashmir (New Kashmir) that the party adopted in 1944. This was a very profoundly radical programme aimed at social, economic and political reconstruction of the state and political empowerment of its people within an independent state. There is some evidence to suggest that at the crucial juncture in 1947, Sheikh Abdullah had supported accession to India in the hope of securing a meaningful autonomous status for the State, which he thought to be necessary for translating his vision of Naya Kashmir into actual practice However, eventually the people and the leadership were disappointed in respect of the commitments that Indian leadership made in relation to Kashmir.

In India there has never been a consensus on using autonomy as a strategy of Nation Building. It was viewed as a potential source of the problem. It was for this reason that when because of special circumstances, an autonomy solution was worked out to regulate the relationship of Jammu and Kashmir with the Union of India; it was seen as aberration and a potential threat to the unity of the country. Because of this thinking, from the very beginning, various forces became active within and outside the state against the autonomy. As a result of these pressures for the erosion of the autonomy, shortly after the adoption of the constitution in 1950, the cordiality between the governments headed by Shiekh Abdullah (whose endorsement of accession was crucial for India) and Pandit Nehru was being replaced by anger, open hostility, bitterness and frustration vis-a-vis each other. The political events of 1953, that led to the dismissal of Sheikh Abdullah, the most potent advocate of the state’s autonomy, started casting their shadow on this position. This facilitated the process of greater merger of the state within the Indian Union, beginning with the presidential order of 1954.

Such attitude of the centre undermined the legitimacy of the Indian State vis-à-vis the people of Kashmir. This is why, in spite of greater legal integration, State authority remained fragile and dependent on coercive agencies. This feeling of betrayal has gone deep into the psyche of the people of Kashmir. The gradual alienation of the people from the existing political dispensation was reflected in electoral mal practices and the non functional democracy. State authority rested on the continued repression leaving very little of elementary civil and political rights to its people. Combination of all these factors contributed to present phase of Kashmir crises. In addition, the continued dispute on and in Kashmir has greatly undermined normal and the natural process of its economy. Kashmir in spite of being gifted in terms human and natural resources has remained underdeveloped. Several distortions crept into its economy. There is a strong perception, supported by some evidence, that dependant development was consciously introduced and promoted in the state. Corruption was also introduced as a mechanism of reward for loyalty in the absence on credible legitimacy. Economy also suffered on account of the closure of the all weather road that had historically connected Kashmir with the rest of the world. It could be greatly useful to some sectors of Kashmir economy.

Kashmir has been historically characterized as a very tolerant, peaceful and even one of the docile societies in the world. Prior to 1989 eruption of militancy Kashmiris were known for their civility, tolerance, accommodativeness and intrinsic secular character. At the core of it Kashmiri society still retains these qualities. Even during the bloodshed of 1947 Kashmiris had exhibited tremendous tolerance and harmony. However, it is a series of disappointments that pushed it to the course of militancy. In addition, whatever its causes may be, consequences of any violence are mostly undesirable and harmful to the general society. We the people of Kashmir have undergone the traumas associated with violence. In all these years of violence, Kashmiri society has suffered physically, mentally, psychologically, economically and socially. There is a huge area to work for rehabilitating the traumatized Kashmir society. The problem is enormous. There is tremendous need that India and Pakistan, occupants of the divided Kashmir, to join together to address this Human tragedy. The whole society needs rehabilitation in social, economic and political terms. Present plight of the state and its people need to be understood in the above referred context

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 22 Jul 2009 21:24

Having my land divided, I understand Baba's anguish.

But the lines are too hardened for anyone backing down!

The reality has to be accepted!

Controls could be eased as it has been done for travel to Bangladesh and vice versa!

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 22 Jul 2009 23:54

Kashmir integral part of India' NC MP-Shariq's emotional outburst

-Why talk to Pak on Kashmir?

NEW DELHI: In an emotional outburst National Conference MP Sharifuddin Shariq asked Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon why India was discussing Kashmir with Pakistan when it was an integral part of India. At an interactive session with MPs, Shariq said he was confused and failed to understand the logic behind discussing the issue with Pakistan. His party back in Srinagar, however, is a votary of accentuating dialogue on Kashmir both with Pakistan as well as resumption of peace process with separatist leadership.

Menon clarified that discussion on Kashmir with Pakistan was aimed to just improve the lives of people and ending terrorism and infiltrations from across the Line of Control (LoC).

"There was no question on debating the territorial status or the history of Kashmir with Pakistan. There is attempt by Pakistan to drag us into that. But we firmly believe that state of Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of India like any other state," said Menon when Shariq wanted to know why Kashmir figures in discussions with Islamabad.

Clarifying on the joint statement issued by both countries at the Egyptian city of Sharm-el-Sheikh, Foreign Secretary said, "though India has agreed to talk to Pakistan but would not discuss anything except terrorism. Our single issue with Pakistan is terrorism. We demand perpetrators of terrorist crimes be brought to justice and to end infrastructure of terrorism on their soil," he said.

On including Balochistan in the joint statement, Menon said, "Pakistan had been off and on raising the issue of Indias involvement. Pakistan Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani raised the issue during his talks with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh." The joint statement has just mentioned the list of issues raised during their discussions, he said, adding a new twist that the joint statement was not a signed document.
Foreign Secretary told MPs that talks with Pakistan were not a 20-20 over cricket match, where one lofts for sixes or fours. He said, "India's attempts to bring back terrorism as a fundamental issue have succeeded. They tried to divert attentions focused on resumption of composite dialogue process as if nothing had happened to do business as usual." He added that India had told them (Pakistan) firmly that there no question of talking on any other issue or staring composite dialogue process unless they take credible actions against terrorism.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 23 Jul 2009 06:54

ramana wrote:Indian Institute of Advanced Studies in Shimla is a very prestigous institute in India.

Contextualizing the Kashmir Politics
Noor Ahmad Baba

Jammu & Kashmir as it is known today evolved during the Dogra era/period (1846-1947). Under this regime, Jammu & Kashmir emerged into a heterogeneous polity with different regions and different ethnic groups differently related with the ruling dynasty and the state. The Dogra dynasty, on account of the very nature of the state formation and also because of the character of its politics, became discriminative in character. National movement under the leadership of Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah gained the secular, socialist complexion that was manifested in the programme of Naya Kashmir (New Kashmir) that the party adopted in 1944.

Sheikh Abdullah was an outright communal politician with all his interests in the Kashmir region of J&K State. Apart from British perfidy, another reason why the Indian government agreed to a ceasefire in the 1947-48 war was Abdullah's lack of interest in recovering the non-Kashmiri regions of western Jammu and Baltistan.

You should read MC Mahajan's assessment of Abdullah; he was PM of J&K at the time of accession and later became India's first Supreme Court Chief Justice. In his autobiography he writes: "Subsequent events proved that I was perfectly right in my opinion about the Sheikh. I always regarded him as an ambitious person prepared to go to any lengths achieve his ends. To me he looked like a demagogue who could control Kashmiri crowds. His deputy Bakshi Ghulam Mohammad is quite a different man from the Sheikh, and believes that the good of Kashmir lay in its accession to India. In my opinion, had he been in power in place of Sheikh Abdullah he would not have driven out the Maharaja but would have kept him as the constitutional ruler of the state."

He gives examples of Abdullah's communal outlook during the 1947-48 war and the massacres in western Jammu by the Pakistani invaders and the local communalized Muslims.

Kashmir in spite of being gifted in terms human and natural resources has remained underdeveloped. Several distortions crept into its economy. There is a strong perception, supported by some evidence, that dependant development was consciously introduced and promoted in the state. Corruption was also introduced as a mechanism of reward for loyalty in the absence on credible legitimacy. Economy also suffered on account of the closure of the all weather road that had historically connected Kashmir with the rest of the world. It could be greatly useful to some sectors of Kashmir economy.

Dependant development was "introduced"....corruption was "introduced". It's the outsider's fault, we Kashmiri Muslims can never be corrupt or dependant!

His obsession with the Kashmir region of J&K State is revealed in the view that the Srinagar-Muzzafrabad road connected "kashmir" to the "rest of the world". The reality is that despite opening this route, all the trade is happening along the Poonch-Rawalakot road in Jammu!

Kashmir has been historically characterized as a very tolerant, peaceful and even one of the docile societies in the world. Prior to 1989 eruption of militancy Kashmiris were known for their civility, tolerance, accommodativeness and intrinsic secular character. At the core of it Kashmiri society still retains these qualities. Even during the bloodshed of 1947 Kashmiris had exhibited tremendous tolerance and harmony.

Another self-deluding myth. Communalization of Muslims in J&K, particularly in Kashmir and western Jammu, ran parallel to the communalization of Muslims in other parts of India from the 1920s. This communalization was manifested in the killings of Kashmiri Pandits in 1931 and the communal massacres in western Jammu during the Pakistani invasion of J&K State in 1947.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 23 Jul 2009 08:07

This is disturbing....

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Jul 2009 08:25

Mawdudi's teachers of hatred being recruited for schools in J&K - Praveen Swami

Hundreds of jobs, a Cabinet decision taken on July 14 mandates, will be handed out to schoolteachers linked to the Jammu Kashmir Jamaat-e-Islami . . . More than 440 Falah-i-Aam Trust teachers will now be inducted into the State school system. Seventy-four unskilled workers who lost their jobs when Falah-i-Aam schools were closed down in 1990 will also get State government jobs.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Jul 2009 08:36

somnath wrote:This is disturbing....

In 1899, Mirwaiz Rasul Shah — whose grandnephew and clerical heir is today the All Parties Hurriyat Conference chief — started the Anjuman Nusrat ul-Islam (Society for the Victory of Islam). It aimed not only to give Kashmir’s nascent middle class modern scientific education but also eradicate folk Islam and create a religion-centred political consciousness.

Islam used the old system to create folk Islam in Kashmir which worshipped rishis and Hindus icons. Many Kashmiri Pundits recall their grandfathers saying that many KMs were ready to become Pundits in 1900 and leave Islam. Pundits did not allow it else it would have a majority Hindu now.
In response to Hindu revival the Anjuman Nusrat ul-Islam was created which also tried to go with the times of scientific evolution of the west.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Jul 2009 09:06

No withdrawal of Army or paramilitary forces - PC

He said there was no question of withdrawing the Army from Jammu and Kashmir and they would continue to guard the border, prevent infiltration of terrorists and indulge in counter-insurgency operations.

On the presence of paramilitary forces in the State, the Minister said the additional forces sent there for the Amaranth yatra duty would be withdrawn and redeployed after August 7 when the yatra season ended. The other regular paramilitary forces would continue to assist the State police in fighting terrorists, guard important nstallations/personalities and take part in counter-insurgency operations until the Jammu and Kashmir police recruited more personnel, trained and deployed them for duties. Then the responsibilities now done by the paramilitary forces would be transferred to the police over a period of time.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Jul 2009 19:53

Acharya wrote:
somnath wrote:This is disturbing....

In 1899, Mirwaiz Rasul Shah — whose grandnephew and clerical heir is today the All Parties Hurriyat Conference chief — started the Anjuman Nusrat ul-Islam (Society for the Victory of Islam). It aimed not only to give Kashmir’s nascent middle class modern scientific education but also eradicate folk Islam and create a religion-centred political consciousness.
Islam used the old system to create folk Islam in Kashmir which worshipped rishis and Hindus icons. Many Kashmiri Pundits recall their grandfathers saying that many KMs were ready to become Pundits in 1900 and leave Islam. Pundits did not allow it else it would have a majority Hindu now.
In response to Hindu revival the Anjuman Nusrat ul-Islam was created which also tried to go with the times of scientific evolution of the west.

That is why many converted to Sikhism!

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 23 Jul 2009 22:04

Three-year-old boy 'gunned' down by militants
23 Jul 2009, 1334 hrs IST

In the latest a three-year-old boy and his father were gunned down late on Wednesday night (July 22) allegedly by militants in Dunardu in Shopian.

Another Link

Remove CRPF, remove army, castrate the police by levelling false allegations of rape. Please give a free hand to the terrorists in their holy mission of killing children -Signed by WKK and Jamia Binori Peace Institute.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jul 2009 22:13

Speaking of that whats the progress of the Shopian case after Jan Commission report was released?

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 23 Jul 2009 22:33

^ J&K govt is pressurizing SC not to grant bails to police officers arrested for destruction of evidence.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... 812667.cms

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 24 Jul 2009 10:49

Rich tributes were paid to martyrs of last year's Amarnath land row agitation at a function organised by Shri Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti (SAYSS) at Geeta Bhawan here today. It may be recalled that on this day last year Kuldeep Verma laid down his life for restoration of land at Baltal in Kashmir Valley to Amarnath Shrine Board.

Mr Indresh Kumar, National Working Committee Member, Rastriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) was the chief guest on the occasion while the function among others was addressed by SAYSS, convenor, Brig (retd) Suchet Singh, Mahant Rameshwar Dass, Mayor Kavinder Gupta, president Brahman Sabha Ved Prakash, president Amar Kshatriya Sabha Kr. Narayan Singh, spokesman SAYSS Dr Narinder Singh, JKVM senior vice president Dr R L Bhat, and Shamsher Singh.

Differentiating last year’s Amarnath land row agitation in Jammu with that of Kashmir turmoil, Mr Indresh Kumar said the Jammu agitation was a pro national movement while that of Kashmir for separatism and against the national unity and integrity. Both these movements can’t be equated at any level, he added. The RSS leader said the greatest challenges being faced by the Kashmiris at present are how to rehabilitate the exiled people back in Valley with honour and dignity and how to end the injustice and discrimination to which Jammu and Ladakh regions have been subjected. He said the UPA which runs the Union and State Government has a challenge - how to curb the anti national and separatist elements in Valley and restore peace.

Expressing his dismay over the reported move of shifting Central University to Kashmir, Indresh Kumar said it is another challenge for UPA. When the word given by the Prime Minister was not implemented how this Government can contain law and order, he asked?

Daily Excelsior

R Vaidya · Post by **R Vaidya** » 24 Jul 2009 13:34

China’s migraine is India’s K -Valley balm--New Indian Express

R Vaidyanathan[/b]First Published : 18 Jul 2009 04:01:00 AM IST

FORMER US Secretary of State Madeline Albright correctly called Pakistan as the international migraine. But she did that recently much after her official tenure. She was not wrong in calling Pakistan by that name, except she was very late. These are the ‘war’ veterans, namely ‘wise after retirement’.
Now China is having its migraine in the form of its Xinjiang (Uyghur) autonomous province where over 150 deaths have been reported in violence.
The issue is the conflict between Uyghurs who are followers of some sort of Sufi Islam _ but getting radicalised _ and the Hun Chinese. The area in the western part of China is rich in minerals and oil and China is setting up large factories there. The original population proportion in the fifties _ of 70 to 30 in favor of Uyghur _ has changed to 30 to 70 recently due to the encouragement given by the Chinese politburo to Hun Chinese to move in to this province.
There are very many smaller ethnic groupings in that province but there is resentment against Hun Chinese as they are perceived to be dominating.
The Uyghur was originally with the East Turkistan province and it was merged with China after the revolution.
Actually, there was supposed to have been a meeting of East Turkistan leaders and Mao but the plane they travelled to Beijing met with an accident and the leaders perished. Anyhow China integrated the province after some local Uyghur leaders warmly welcomed it. Of course, China was happy to consider it as a autonomous province as long as it was as per the Chinese idea of autonomy. During the last few years, the resentment among the Uyghurs was coming into the open and, of course, encouraged by the US _ as part of its China Containment policy _ they have also started to talk about East Turkistan. Chinese have been dealing with any dissidence in its provinces like Tibet by hitting them hard, hitting them longer and hitting them stronger.
China is not sophisticated in dealing with its restive provinces. Just send the Army and hit the splitters or terrorists as they are called. Uyghur issue is variously described as ethnic and also as radical Islam in conflict with Communist China. Pakistan, which prides itself as the beacon light of global Islam, has been very prompt in handing over Uyghur leaders to China which has promptly executed them. The same Pakistan is so reluctant to deal with terrorists who ravaged Mumbai from its soil! Now the jeans-clad jihadis in Kashmir Valley _ also originally talked about ethnic upraising encompassing all communities but very soon it has become the hot bed of radical Islam. Uyghur could become radicalised and then it will be war between radical Islam and Communist china. History repeats. When Hitler invaded Russia, Fascism met with Stalinism.
West got saved. Let it be noted that the future of India as a civilisation is dependent on the war between radical Islam and Mao’s China.
This will be encouraged by the US similar to jihadis trained and funded by the US against Russia. The local left in India (which is currently only active in JNU canteen) will suddenly find lots of problems with radical Islam _ the same way the imperialist war became people’s war after Hitler attacked Russia.
Pakistan Army will be caught between “eternal friend” and “loyalty to Ummah”. The result of the Uyghur upraising is going to be drastic on China’s views on Kashmir Valley.
It will also have drastic impact on our local red. India should play a double game. It should encourage Uygurs and also resettle large number of peasants from UP and Bihar in to Kashmir Valley, following the illustrious example of China. India should form a grouping with Turkey and all the Central Asian countries _ ending with -stan _ and encourage East Turkistan and its Sufi Islam. In the north of China India should try to foment problems through Mongolia. So China will have splitters in the South (Tibet) and West (Uyghurs) and the North (Mongols).
The graver the situation in Xingkiang the better for India unless the US tries to bring all Taliban together and hand over Pakistan to them to contain China. It is important to note that the US adopts a use-and-throw attitude to other countries.
Not like condoms more like toilet papers since the former is treated well before use but the latter is treated badly both before and after use. It is not going to be worried if Taliban rules Pakistan or Afghanistan as long as the US is not having any terror attacks.
In any case, Pakistan as we know today will not be there in the next few years since it is going to a ‘mridangam’ situation of getting hit on both sides by China and the US-supported good Taliban (or bad Taliban). When Pakistan disappears as it exists today, then the jean-clad jihadis in K-Valley will suddenly find that keeping jeans is more important than szadi. The only negative possibility for India is a deal by which the US tries to hand over Pakistan along with K-Valley to good Taliban.
But in such a situation we can always join with China to hit hard hit long and hit strong the splitters. Any which way the Chinese migraine is balm to our Valley.
The author is Professor of Finance, Indian Institute of Management- Bangalore, and can be contacted at vaidya@iimb.ernet.in <mailto:vaidya@iimb.ernet.in>. The views are personal and do not reflect that of his organisation.