Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

[Dilbu]

India’s embrace of dialogue remains limited, reluctant - Siddharth Varadarajan

“If you are talking, you can always suspend talks. But if you are not talking, there will be enormous political pressure to react in ways that might be counterproductive. And this government does not want to provide such an incentive to the terrorists,” an official told The Hindu on condition of anonymity.

It was in half jest I wrote the below mentioned post a few pages back. Turns out it is indeed the official policy.

As some one mentioned earlier, 'talks' are used as pressure valve by all parties involved in this game. TSP, GOI & Unkil.

1) Cancelling talks with TSP, after every major terrorist attack, is touted as a huge strategic response by GOI which allows it to continue Chankian inaction until some wkk chaman ki tamasha kicks in. Then talks with TSP can be restarted, claiming gandhigiri and moral high ground, which puts the safety valve in place again until next attack.

2)Getting talks back on track, after the initial Indian official dramabazi after every major attack, is the final step of equal-equal and considered a huge victory which absolves it of all crimes by TSP. This is apart from the brownie points earned by playing the victim of derailed piss process.

3)Pretending to maintain an equal distance all the while encouraging to do talks is the 'kaam chalau' plan in the region for unkil. Gubo bitch munna is kept firmly on the leash and allowed to have occational bites at India. Everything can be managed by appealing for resumption of 'dialogue'.

Everyone involved benefits from this 'talk' thingy. Only mango jingos on the street, and on the net, are left wondering what the phuck is so important about continuing or not continuing talks with TSP since it amounts to zilch,zero,nada results at the end of the day.

[Philip]

So the GOI is by this strategy only inviting more terror from the ungodly,caring bu**er all for the poor innocent victims of Paki unleashed terror,like the slaughtered passengers and commuters at VT,and the gallant uniformed guardians of Indian soil and territory,preferring to use lies,chicanery and subterfuge to deceive the Indian public instead of dealing with the problem of Pak face on like Mrs.G would've done,.The option of sending Pak into "diplomatic exile" as analternative to military muscle by India, doesn't seem attractive to the GOI because of our desi vested interests who want Indo-Pak trade on a large scale so that they can fill their already bursting pyjama pockets.

[chetak]

We are being soooo carefully set up by the amrekis and the pakis.

Water is what the pakis need now and desperately. Water issues have never been so loudly breast beaten in pakiland as is being done these days. The aam jantha and the marauding jehadis will be diverted to focus on " water stealing" India as their real enemies.

In press conferences after the first aman ki natak meeting the pakis will claim that we have deprived them of their "rightful" share of the water. Summer and other agrarian activities are greatly looming on the horizon. They will demand that we pay money as well as compensate them for "theft of water to fill Baglihar dam" Even that jerk salauddin has thrown his hat into the "water" ring.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -220-hh-05

ISLAMABAD: A dispute among provinces over water share intensified on Thursday when a meeting of the advisory committee of the Indus River System Authority (Irsa) ended in deadlock and Punjab walked out in protest against opposition from Sindh, Balochistan and federal members to a proposal to allow it to draw more water during the remaining period of the current crop season.

This was perhaps the worst crisis of its kind faced by Irsa in its 18-year history, despite some improvement in water situation and an estimated decline in shortage from 34 per cent to 30 per cent after the recent rainy spell.

The meeting presided over by Irsa Chairman Aman Gul Khattak was presented with the revised water probability of 7.42 million acre feet (MAF), which Sindh claimed was a shift from all past traditions when water probabilities were worked out at the start and not in the middle of cropping seasons. The meeting was attended by all Irsa members, provincial irrigation and agriculture secretaries and representatives of the agencies concerned.

“The meeting was hit by the differences and now the authority will take a decision” about water probabilities and provincial shares, Irsa spokesman Khalid Rana told reporters.

The provinces were not only divided over the probable water availability calculated by Irsa for the next six weeks, but also took extreme positions on how to share whatever quantities were expected to be available from Feb 11 to March 31.

The already primed DDM and the western press will run with this "story". The paki press will shout from the rooftops about perfidious Hindus stealing their water and the beards will make open threats of war.

MMS will "offer" to release more water to his friends, bypassing the IWT and claiming that we should "help out" and foster people to people contacts. One more water color painting of some pigsty in gah village will be handed over with great fanfare to MMS.

This fatal mis step is what is being so carefully choreographed.

MMS and SSM will play their parts to perfection. ( preparatory to kashmir being handed over with some what less fanfare.)

[Aditya_V]

What is this about water, arent the Pakis Arabs and want thier land to look like Arabia, the lesser amount of water the more the land will look like Arabia.

[Hari Seldon]

MMS will "offer" to release more water to his friends, bypassing the IWT and claiming that we should "help out" and foster people to people contacts. One more water color painting of some pigsty in gah village will be handed over with great fanfare to MMS.

This fatal mis step is what is being so carefully choreographed.

MMS and SSM will play their parts to perfection. ( preparatory to kashmir being handed over with some what less fanfare.)

Wouldn't it be easier to sabotage, quietly the dam projects on in full swing right now in India? I mean, its always possible MMS-SSM will sell us down the (drying) river and all but there're easier ways of doing so, no?

[Philip]

I forsee a very sinister plot being hatched here.Depriving Pak of its legitimate share of water from the 5 rivers,the "Punjab" ,could be construed as an act of war.The origin of these rivers all lie in the Himalayas and J&K! Therefore,the Pakis will make out a public case for the GOI to hand over Kashmir to them,or at least a hefty part of the state-urged on by US interlopers,in all the talks that are going to take place,so that they can use these insane arguments devoid of the true reality of the situ to perpetuate a confrontationist stance against India.Pak will then redeploy its troops from the Af-Pak badlands and thus squeezing Obama's "ghoulies' on behalf of Osama too!The shrill cry about water will be linked along with Pak's eternal cry of "Kashmir",to divert its suffering population's attention from the manner in which they have been enslaved by the usurperr's of Jinnah's moth-eaten state.

PS:As a gesture of goodwill to all the waterless people of Pak,I am sure they would not take it amiss if all the people of the lands through which the 5 rivers pass through march to the river banks and add to the water level by pissing downstream!

[Gerard]

Government vows good defence for Aafia Siddiqui

The government assured the National Assembly on Thursday it would put up a “good defence” for Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia Siddiqui even at the next stage of her trial by a US court where a jury last week found her guilty of attempting to murder American soldiers in Afghanistan.

He complained of that a Pakistani woman had been “maltreated” and said: “We all agree that somehow she should be brought back (to Pakistan).”

[SSridhar]

The only way we can release 'more' water to Pakistan is through the three 'eastern rivers' of Ravi, Beas & Satluj. We do not impound any waters on the Indus river itself (no project at all on the Indus or Shyok or Nubra or Zanskar) and whatever water is impounded in the other two rivers is let off within 7 days because the power projects are purely run-of-river with no pondage worth talking about.

If GoI does anything like this, Punjab, Rajasthan & Haryana will rise in revolt. Nothing less than that. Not even a suicidal GoI can contemplate such a move to placate the Pakistanis. The Pakistanis will demand this everytime then and will become a huge headache for us.

Besides, over 50% of water of the Indus system of rivers is wasted within Pakistan. Let them first address that before they demand any more water from us. They don't need to grow crops like sugarcane which require huge amounts of water. They are also planning to lease out hundreds of thousands of acres to Middle Eastern sand nations as captive farmlands. They need water from the Indus rivers. They should drop this idea forthwith.

[A_Gupta]

http://aacounterterror.wordpress.com/aa ... nd-others/

It seems to me that we don’t care about the Muslim sisters, thousands of whom have been brutally oppressed by the Taliban in Afghanistan, Waziristan and Swat and many of them have been jailed in Saudi Arabia after being raped by their nationals. We never publicly expressed any sympathies for them. Why???

The answer is simple: Because U.S, Israel, India and Europe were not involved in their oppression.

[Gerard]

'Date set' for India-Pakistan envoys to resume talks

Top diplomats from India and Pakistan are to meet for talks in the Indian capital, Delhi, on 25 February, the office of Pakistan's PM has announced.

[chandrabhan]

We are being soooo carefully set up by the amrekis and the pakis.

Water is what the pakis need now and desperately. Water issues have never been so loudly breast beaten in pakiland as is being done these days. The aam jantha and the marauding jehadis will be diverted to focus on " water stealing" India as their real enemies.

In press conferences after the first aman ki natak meeting the pakis will claim that we have deprived them of their "rightful" share of the water. Summer and other agrarian activities are greatly looming on the horizon. They will demand that we pay money as well as compensate them for "theft of water to fill Baglihar dam" Even that jerk salauddin has thrown his hat into the "water" ring.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -220-hh-05

ISLAMABAD: A dispute among provinces over water share intensified on Thursday when a meeting of the advisory committee of the Indus River System Authority (Irsa) ended in deadlock and Punjab walked out in protest against opposition from Sindh, Balochistan and federal members to a proposal to allow it to draw more water during the remaining period ...ability calculated by Irsa for the next six weeks, but also took extreme positions on how to share whatever quantities were expected to be available from Feb 11 to March 31.[/color]

The already primed DDM and the western press will run with this "story". The paki press will shout from the rooftops about perfidious Hindus stealing their water and the beards will make open threats of war.

MMS will "offer" to release more water to his friends, bypassing the IWT and claiming that we should "help out" and foster people to people contacts. One more water color painting of some pigsty in gah village will be handed over with great fanfare to MMS.

This fatal mis step is what is being so carefully choreographed.

MMS and SSM will play their parts to perfection. ( preparatory to kashmir being handed over with some what less fanfare.)

I can not but wonder on the Phenomenon called MMS. He is a typical manifestation of what mango Indian likes or likes to see, reason? He has no great research to his credit, No great economic theory, all his life he has served the institutions either aligned to west or serving western intrests.

Even more perplexing is the role 'Rajmata' is playing. Who is actually making these decisions? I can understand that lot of these moves are being guided by Khanate in the backdrop. I could have never imagined that MMS could turn out to be such a chicken and paki lover. My bad, I forgot he was born there.

This whole policy of serving up a human to Bakasur, in this case common SDRE injuns, is baffling. Even more baffling is this social phenomenon of normal middle class, born and bred bureaucrat completely forgetting their roots, the pains and agony that this middle class Injun goes through. How he has suffered under the onslaught of Paki terrorism, overlooked by West , in fact armed by America. These same middle class boys can not see the death of more than 70000 fellow Indians in this terrorism and continue to suck up to America.
MMS is one such phenomenon. Gentleman has phenomenal PR( I guess ably managed by Western Media too - great economist and thinker), with no achievement whatsoever. Even more perplexing is the mood of Cabinet. Who is doing what? Who is pro talk and Who is Anti?
Adding insult to injury is the statement by Shri Idiot Antony, " Suspending talks is no option in case of terror strikes.... ". This whole 'Aman ka tamasha' Sh** being served in my opinion is out of the pocket of taxpayer to create a 'mahoul' for him to take some more hits.
The Next Holocaust my fellow countrymen is going to happen in India. Now I understand why PR as an Industry is thriving. This whole opinion moulding is being done in way that common men is led to believe that he is making the decision and Government is expressing his will.

I am really wondering, Is democracy and secooolarism(western meaning) the real answer to the rise of indic thought. why not have a debate on this ?

Let me tell you that GOI is failing miserably here or am I a lone wolf baying at the moon

[Nihat]

Whatever your prejudices and opinions maybe , thats your problem. But try to refrain from calling our Prime Minister a "Chicken" or our Defence Minister an "Idiot".

This is not the place to do so.

[anupmisra]

I saw a license plate on Hwy 85: "PRD PAKI"

Pa(ki is a slang for a liquor store in CT. BTW, was there a highway patrol car following that proud paki?

[Gerard]

U.N. vents frustration at stalled arms control forum

Pakistan has refused to join a required consensus at the 65-member forum, insisting that it needs to keep open the fissile option to keep pace with its nuclear-armed rival India.

"I don't know what to tell the Secretary-General (Ban Ki-moon) when he asks what is going on in the CD except to say, 'I am sorry Mr. Secretary-General, nothing is going on'."

[Chandragupta]

India has had buffoons for leaders. First, they never had the foresight to see that Bakis were always going to be a pain in the backside when half of IMs migrated to Bakiland & half stayed back. War after wars, our leaders never thought about the prospect of a Chinese sponsored, nuclear armed Porkiland hell bent on destroying India. We should have finished them off in 1971 if not before. Right now what is happening is only the extension of this buffoon-ism. We are the fourth largest economy in the world & still our PM goes to Ombaba, requests him to sign his book & then does a song-dance routine to appease him.

Unkil will pack up from Afghanistan, then what? All these Talebs will be left to train their guns at Indians in Kashmir & elsewhere, all this while, our leaders will be busy doing monkey tricks to pleasure their masters in Amrika. There is nothing chankian at what our guborment is doing, its called squealing. How large an economy do we need to destroy Pakistan? We could be a $20 Trillion mammoth & still be getting thrashed by these salwar clad pigs from the west because you don't need dollars to fight a war, you need a spine which our nation simply does not have.

[SwamyG]

It may work too.

I would have agreed; as in the long run Pakistan would have exhausted its monetary & "human" resources. In order to continue to do what it is doing, it would have to keep its own people in a "high" state too. But...the big but is if Unkil and others keep giving them aid, won't they last longer than what they by themselves would have lasted?

[chetak]

The shrill cry about water will be linked along with Pak's eternal cry of "Kashmir",to divert its suffering population's attention from the manner in which they have been enslaved by the usurperr's of Jinnah's moth-eaten state.

Philip ji,

The eternal cry of kashmir has always been linked to the water and the water only. kashmir has always been a subterfuge, right from jinnah's days, so as not to alienate the locals. Their jugular is water and its sources, catchment areas and the glaciers. That is why they desperately want the Indian Army out of the Siachen.

That is why we should never vacate the glaciers or kashmir. We have them by the short and curlies. Squeeze the hell out of them all the way to the negotiating table and recover all that bhutto carried away in Simla and more.

The congress and the commies have always known this but not the Indian public or other chunu munnu sickular parties who are always diverted by aman ki natak type of rhetoric that the pakis excel at. And because the Indian public has wet dreams about some bollywood actors we have always fallen for this crap. They have suborned the DDM using the western linkages that many of these TV channels and papers have.

There is not even a single iota of corresponding sympathy for India or its people in any of the paki channels or press. We are STUPID to carry on a one sided romance with a nation and people who rabidly hate us. Ignore these rascals and when dealing with them, do so in a business like manner.

Remember the old saying that the chinese will fight to the last paki and the pakis will fight to the last kashmiri?

Slowly and painfully the kashmiris are becoming aware of the painful fate that awaits them, (not the eternally unwashed and stone throwing for pay abduls).
The thinking people whose eyes have been opened by the contemptuous paki slaughter in POK (and baluchistan!) and the violent demographic shift that has taken place there by forcibly resettling retired paki soldiers and other non indigenous peoples to overwhelm and subdue the locals in POK especially in the shia dominated areas.

[Aditya_V]

Chandragupta-> the problem is not with IM's staying India, the problem is that a large section of our elite are serving foreign interets. The average IM is as patriotic as you or me.

[Chandragupta]

Chandragupta-> the problem is not with IM's staying India, the problem is that a large section of our elite are serving foreign interets. The average IM is as patriotic as you or me.

That was not the point. I was talking about how our leaders failed to realize that Paqis would always try to foster trouble between Hindus & Muslims in India & this would go on until their joke of a country is wiped off the map.

[Gerard]

India has had buffoons for leaders. ... We should have finished them off in 1971 if not before.

Please enlighten us how the 'buffoon' Indira Gandhi could have continued the war in 1971, against the wishes of BOTH superpowers and the entire UN.

[chandrabhan]

Whatever your prejudices and opinions maybe , thats your problem. But try to refrain from calling our Prime Minister a "Chicken" or our Defence Minister an "Idiot".

This is not the place to do so.

Well thank you for reminding me and could you please enlighten me how brave MMS is ? How brilliant Antony is? Leaders? Well certainly not mine! How come SES happens and what a great brave move of dossier throwing has happened. In fact we have given a whole new meaning to the term diplomacy. It can be called 'Dossier diplomacy' . We are simply 'Jaw Jaw'.

This is the brave fitting response to cold blooded murder of 186 Indians in Mumbai and thousand's before that. How brave, we stood up to Amir khan and told them to mind their own business. Did i hear that? well off course, I missed that part.
Even, peace niks such as IK Gujral had the guts to tell the british to mind their own business when they offered to mediate on Kashmir, gave dinner a miss when this Chatwal chap was invited.

I am simply seeing huge shake up happening in kashmir. No flag hoisting on 26th january, this whole initiation of talks, Aman ka tamasha and withdrawing of forces from Kashmir.

This is something new I am seeing on BRF nowdays. There are host of our esteemed BRFites who keep o telling this is not a place for this and that. Kindly refrain as we all are educated , sensible people. If someone's emotions are getting hurt then sorry, tuff luck. hard Power has no substitute , learn something from China and even pakistan. Why we do diddly squat even after losing lives and money both.

Something is cooking and water is going to be the next big issue. Pukis are diverting their internal fissures( water stealing by punjab from Sindh) and blaming on India.

[Chandragupta]

India has had buffoons for leaders. ... We should have finished them off in 1971 if not before.

Please enlighten us how the 'buffoon' Indira Gandhi could have continued the war in 1971, against the wishes of BOTH superpowers and the entire UN.

Yes, she could not have (and my buffoon remark was not at all directed at the only Indian leader with balls) but a lot could be done in all those years before Pakistan had not gotten their hands on Nukes & even afterwards. Even in 71, the Simla agreement did nothing to reflect the extent of Indian victory, although I understand that any commitment on Kashmir by Pakistan would not have meant much.

How is it that they are not scared of us & we are? If only we were the Big Bad Hindu India of their nightmares, they would no longer exist on the world map. If India had a policy of tu mujhe ek maar, main tujhe chaar marunga, Pakistanis would be shivering in their salwars. Successive governments have shown that India does not have the will power to punish them. The way Pakis can blackmail us over nukes speaks volumes about the situation. They should have been given regular dosage of tight thappads all these years.

They should be worried sick of being wiped off the map by a big, bad neighbor, yet it's us who are debating whether India will retaliate if half of it goes up in a mushroom cloud.

[ramana]

May I remind folks this is the TSP thread? Please no more India related stuff here.

[CRamS]

Someone pointed out that SV is a American. Hopefully the GoI is feeding him what the Americans want to hear. And the last part about civilian leadership ( ) in Pakistan is not what you'd hear from an Indian source.

I don't know about SV, but his brother Tunku Vardarajan is pobably a naturalized US citizen. He blows hot & cold. He tells it like it is when it comes to Pakis, but then has to show he is a good "boy" by doing an equal equal on "Hindu extremists".

On US Chanakyan strategy, does anyone know when is MMS's state visit to DC? Any big announcement heralding the impending arrival of India as a global superpower on the anvil?

[Nihat]

Whatever your prejudices and opinions maybe , thats your problem. But try to refrain from calling our Prime Minister a "Chicken" or our Defence Minister an "Idiot".

This is not the place to do so.

This is something new I am seeing on BRF nowdays. There are host of our esteemed BRFites who keep o telling this is not a place for this and that. Kindly refrain as we all are educated , sensible people. If someone's emotions are getting hurt then sorry, tuff luck. hard Power has no substitute , learn something from China and even pakistan. Why we do diddly squat even after losing lives and money both.

Something is cooking and water is going to be the next big issue. Pukis are diverting their internal fissures( water stealing by punjab from Sindh) and blaming on India.

All I requested was that you do not call Indias PM and DM names such as monkey and Idiot. Is that so difficult to do.

[vera_k]

I don't know about SV

Link

[saip]

He complained of that a Pakistani woman had been “maltreated” and said: “We all agree that somehow she should be brought back (to Pakistan).

So that she can be raped and given a Canadian Visa, I am sure!

[svenkat]

I don't know about SV

Link

Its unbelievable.The Chindu's Strategic Affairs editor is a US citizen.The Chennai edition of Xinhua claims to be India's "National" newspaper.A certificate it has given itself.

[negi]

To be honest among all dailies in India , Hindu by far is the best out there it is the least sensational and its front page unlike TOI,IE or HT still publishes relevant stories.

[pgbhat]

^ The edit page gets the most flak and right so IMHO.

[CRamS]

Link

Can someone do more investigation on SV? What is his pedigree? Where did he study? Does he have any affiliation with US think tanks, newspapers etc? If you have followed his reports closely, he is like Pankaj Misra.

[Gagan]

After having read 20 odd pages of this thread and some excellent analysis by Rangudu, CRamS, SSridhar, harbans, amit et.al. I come to the following conclusion, and if I may add to the discussion in a small way:

1. India will NEVER fight another all out war with Pakistan.
a) Cold start non withstanding, Nuclear weapons in India and Pakistan's hands, another or several 26/11s non withstanding.
b) Cold start seems to be one of the sticks that India will threaten Pakistan with, but I don't think ever enact. But the point is, that the mere presence of such a doctrine and the means to carry it out will have that calming effect on pakistan fauj all the same. In other words, India will use Cold Start every day.
c) India will never use nuclear weapons either. Perhaps not even if pakistan or its terrorists use a dirty nuclear device against India. In this regard it seems that the possession of a huge and devastating arsenal in possession of India means that any nuclear retaliation by India will mean the deaths of perhaps 10 million pakistanis, a prospect no Indian leader is willing to contemplate.
d) The reason why India will not fight an all out or even a limited war with paksitan is demonstrated by the fact that India did not go to war even during Kargil as also after 26/11 because of the same reasons - the economy.
e) Pakistan's possession of Nuclear weapons and India's interest in developing its economy and industrial base to equal and surpass China is the main reason.

2. India will instead resort to:
a) Using the good offices of the US and its War on Terror to pursue a change in the way Pakistan is run. The ultimate goal seems to be to separate the Pakistan Army from the center of Power and the running of that country.
b) India's other option is to internally destabilize that country, so that the Pakistani army comes to its knees.
c) India is willing to pay lip service to dialogue on all issues to keep pakistan engaged till such time as the fissiparous tendencies, and economic collapse within that country tear it apart. Meanwhile India along with the United States, Great Britain, Russia etc will encourage the separatist tendencies within Pakistan.
d) The aim is to squeeze Pakistan diplomatically, militarily, economically until the Pakistan Army gives up governance within that country or that country tears itself apart into smaller states.

3. These goals are the same that are sought to be achieved, except that utilizing this route:
a) The end result of a Pakistan that is stable and prosperous, but is not a challenger to India in any sphere.
b) By and large India's goals get achieved without the proverbial 'firing a single bullet'.
c) In a democracy where the parliament and the civil administration are the supreme arbiters of state power, the military will be used but as one of the tools along with several other means to achieve desired goals.

4. The downside is:
a) India will have to not only face a few more 26/11 type incidents, but Indian leaders will also have to manage public anger and restrain the tendency to lash out at Pakistan in anger.
b) The thing we need to understand and accept is that a sinking pakistan will undoubtedly lash out, India will have to grit its teeth and bear it for a while.
c) There are no guarantees that this approach will be successful. There remains the possibility that the Pakistan-China combo along with an indifferent US might push India to such a state that the one thing that it seeks to preserve - economic growth, and some level of safety and security for its citizens is threatened.
d) In such a situation, India may resort to limited military posturing, even a border skirmish, but will withdraw to the earlier policy as soon as the limited goals of any military move are achieved.

5. Bottom line:
a) This appears to be the only wholesome approach on the table, and as such its chances of success seem to be the highest as compared to a pure military or a purely diplomatic solution.
b) The end result of a defanged Pakistan is achieved without too much hardships to India or retardation of economic growth.
c) Pakistan and China seem to have realized this, and their accent is on targetting India's centers of economic and scientific growth.
d) Nothing in this approach means good news for the paksitan army, the main culprit in this entire imbroglio.

Comments and thoughts welcome.

[vera_k]

Can someone do more investigation on SV? What is his pedigree? Where did he study? Does he have any affiliation with US think tanks, newspapers etc? If you have followed his reports closely, he is like Pankaj Misra.

This is from wiki.

After studying economics at the London School of Economics and Columbia University, he taught at New York University for several years before joining The Times of India as an editorial writer in 1995. In 2004, he joined The Hindu, India's leading English-language newspaper, as Deputy Editor.

[A_Gupta]

How is it that they are not scared of us & we are?

Chandragupta, speak for yourself. Being worried by Pakistan does not mean being scared of it. Imagine neighbor's dog is dirtying my yard, and SPCA prevents me from thrashing it. I'm worried by the dog, not scared of it.

[archan]

chandrabhan, relax. No one is asking you what to discuss and what not. All he asked was for you to keep your language civil and I agree with him. You are free to criticize GoI here but lets keep the language good.
PS: looking at your record, I have warned you in the past (Oct. 2009) for one such offense. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 21#p754721
I will note this in the record but I am not giving a formal warning. In the future, it is up to you...

[derkonig]

c) .... any nuclear retaliation by India will mean the deaths of perhaps 100 million pakistanis, a prospect no Indian leader is willing to contemplate.

Lets get this very clear, no nuke arsenal in the world can possibly kill those many ppl. Nukes make take out a say a million if targetted at large urban settlements, but not any more. Case in point, the 2 strikes on Japan, killed about 300k at max taking into account even potential post attack casualties.
The way to exterminate a 100 million or for that matter a billion is not through weapons, but through much simpler means.

[Gagan]

Yes give the pakistanis a nuclear deal.
1. They don't have the money to build and operate new reactors.
2. Those two Pu production plants they are setting up in Kushab along with the older plant there need to be brought under the IAEA.
3. End to U enrichment. No point in allowing them to damage environment by creating dirty bombs.
4. Given Paquistan's credibility, an N deal will only accompany CRE.

[Gagan]

Lets get this very clear, no nuke arsenal in the world can possibly kill those many ppl.

Extra zero removed.
10 million.

[skaranam]

India's approach is very staggered and rudderless. The action is in spurts. We always seem to react rather than seize the initiative. Over the last year or two, we have seen India's reaction and at every step we tend to rationalize and see if there is any chanakiyan move in it. Frankly, i do not see anything chanakiyan. We seem to be lost as what needs to be done. It appears we are so scared to assert ourselves with the US. We are not successful in making the US see our point. Basically we are not able use our leverage against Pakistan.

The current peace offer benefits the US most, next Pakistan. Pakistan suddenly seems to have grown a spine. They have managed to kick us at the London conf. They fooled at SeS. Now they are dragging IWT as point of negotiation. Our HM's statement affirming Omar's offer of rehabilitation is at best opening the Pandora's box.

Whatever that has been achieved after 26/11 is lost. With our current offer, we lost our moral ground in our own eyes. The next time we pull out of negotiations, Pakistan will not even care - they have seen us coming back to them. We have set a dangerous precedent.

Our leadership appears to be bankrupt. We reportedly replaced our NSA for his hawkish stance on Pak. We gave the NSA position to the author of SeS. It cannot see any more hopeless position than this.

2. India will instead resort to:
a) Using the good offices of the US and its War on Terror to persue a change in the way Pakistan is run. The ultimate goal seems to be to separate the Pakistan Army from the center of Power and the running of that country.

We are yet to see the good office of US being used aganist Pak effectively. We all know how Pak Army holds the key to the territorial integrity of Pakistan. The next crop of Pak Officers are more rabid islamists than the current generation. They grew up on a steady diet of Anti-India dose of hatred. We all have seen examples of Pakistani Syllabus and exams.

b) India's other option is to internally destabilize that country, so that the Pakistani army comes to its knees.
c) India is willing to pay lip service to dialogue on all issues to keep Pakistan engaged till such time as the fissiparous tendencies, and economic collapse within that country tear it apart. Meanwhile India along with the United States, Great Britain, Russia etc will encourage the separatist tendencies within Pakistan.
d) The aim is to squeeze Pakistan diplomatically, militarily, economically until the Pakistan Army gives up governance within that country or that country tears itself apart into smaller states.

Thanks to IKG, we do not have any of that capability. With our S-e-S, it does not matter any more. Without doing anything we gave Pakistan a stick to beat us. I am sure Paki's know we are not playing any mischief. Pakistan will help US play mischief with Iran due to Sunni-Shia relationship. Pakistan would love to see a weakened Iran.

3. These goals are the same that are sought to be achieved, except that utilizing this route:
a) The end result of a Pakistan that is stable and prosperous, but is not a challenger to India in any sphere.
b) By and large India's goals get achieved without the proverbial 'firing a single bullet'.
c) In a democracy where the parliament and the civil administration are the supreme arbritars of state power, the military will be used but as one of the tools along with several other means to achieve desired goals.

For this we need a stronger leader. After PVNR, we are yet to see one and in our immediate future crop their is none.

[chandrabhan]

chandrabhan, relax. No one is asking you what to discuss and what not. All he asked was for you to keep your language civil and I agree with him. You are free to criticize GoI here but lets keep the language good.
PS: looking at your record, I have warned you in the past (Oct. 2009) for one such offense. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 21#p754721
I will note this in the record but I am not giving a formal warning. In the future, it is up to you...

I want to make no comment on that incident as I had said nothing offensive. Somebody got hurt hurt because i asked jack trout to focus on his lecture rather than lecture India on Kashmir. Anyway I rarely write here now days. The forum is becoming too intolerant and hyper sensitive. After all Chicken is the state bird of punjab. They call it 'Kukkad' back there