Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Mar 2011 08:30

SSridhar ji,
The entire interaction between Indian babus and American embassy staff is almost like the dialogues between INC and British from the movie Gandhi. The resemblances are too similar. Americans are talking very viceroyal and the babus are standing firm like the erstwhile soldiers of INC led by Gandhiji.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 25 Mar 2011 09:19

Pranav wrote:The question is why these cables, undoubtedly embarrassing to the UPA, are being released now.

So when should they have been released? What's the suspected conspiracy here?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Mar 2011 09:33

Vera_K the implication is they ant UPA to give up something. Its to embarrass them.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 25 Mar 2011 09:52

ramana wrote:Vera_K the implication is they ant UPA to give up something. Its to embarrass them.

Connect the dots. US is running out of tools to the economic crisis - China is upping the ante as a major supplier to west - Warren Buffet's sudden love on India - West Asia and Arab world is in deep shit - Untrustworthy of Pakistan. The current corruption laden Indian manufacturing at full throttle cannot substitute China and only India can replace China, but inept, corrupt leadership is main hurdle. Probably they want to wake up Indian Hanuman to make him realize his full potential, and probably they are helping to cleanup the system to their advantage. JMT.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 25 Mar 2011 10:01

Airavat wrote: tempered by mutual disrespect.

to the paucity of the US embassy’s open contacts.

Man Swapan really lets it rip some times, what writing, what turn of phrase. Delectable insights.

Really, while we dont know the extent of penetration yet, India as a whole (barring some sold out units) has really been standing firm.

Kudos to all Indians and patriots.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 25 Mar 2011 15:11

WikiLeaks: Indian diplomats emerge unscathed

No single instance has come out so far to show that an Indian diplomat was enticed to say or do anything to please the Americans -- no honey traps, no Swiss accounts.Whatever the Indians did or said to their American counterparts was based on facts, policy and personal conviction,' says former diplomat T P Sreenivasan.

These cables confirm the complaint I have heard from American diplomats that Indians never do what they are told to do; they have a hundred reasons to give why it cannot be done{in the chai biscuit sessions}, while Pakistani diplomats accept advice and abide by it. "Indians do not believe in the dictum, 'friends, right or wrong', they keep telling us how wrong we are," said a US diplomat, when asked why the US seemed to prefer Pakistan to India.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Mar 2011 17:05

Alleged anti-north India remark by Chidambaram draws flak

New Delhi, March 25 (IANS) Home Minister P. Chidambaram's alleged anti-north and east India remark to the US ambassador exposed by WikiLeaks triggered a sharp attack Friday from opposition MPs, who demanded his ouster.

According to a diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks, Chidambaram told US Ambassador Timothy Roemer that India would have registered higher growth rates 'if it were the south and west only', because 'the rest of the country held it back'.

The observations, first published by The Hindu, were made when Roemer made an introductory call on the home minister after arriving in 2009 as successor to ambassador David Mulford.

And predictably, political parties from north India took strong objections to the alleged remark. The Samajwadi Party (SP) said the remark was 'against national unity'.

Members protested in both houses of parliament.

Samajwadi Party chief Mulayam Singh Yadav raised the issue in the Lok Sabha.

He said, 'Chidambaram is in the home ministry and despite that he has made comments against the national unity. More seriously, he said this to a foreign ambassador. This is shameful.'

Chidambaram was not present in the house and other MPs from the Samajwadi Party, the Bharatiya Janata Party, the Janata Dal-United and the Rashtriya Janata Dal demanded that the home minister should come to the house and clear his position and apologise.

Some MPs were heard shouting 'Grah mantri ko hata do, hata do' (Remove the home minister).

Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar tried to pacify the MPs but they instead walked near her podium and started shouting slogans. Meira Kumar adjourned the house for about 45 minutes.

Protests revisited when the house re-assembled after the adjournment. Parliamentary Affairs Minister P.K. Bansal sought to cool the tempers saying, 'Let WikiLeaks not leak the country.'

But, agitated MPs continued shouting slogans against Chidambaram like 'Chidambaram, hosh main aao, hosh main aao, hosh main aao' (come to your senses) and 'desh ko mat todo, mat todo' (don't divide nation).

In the Rajya Sabha, Samajwadi Party member Ram Gopal Yadav raised the issue, saying Chidambaram's comments were an 'insult' to the nation.
'It endangers national integrity,' he said.

Both the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha were adjourned sine die, bringing the curtain down on the curtailed budget session.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Mar 2011 18:10

All that P.Chidambaram could come up in defence is this:Don't dignify leaked cables

“Don’t dignify the cables...but if you want me to comment, I denounce the cables,” Mr. Chidambaram told reporters outside Parliament House.

What sort of a defence is that ? He is not saying he did not make that statement to Timothy Roemer. However, he is condemning the cables, whatever that could mean. His colleague, S.M.Krishna, has said claerly they are excerpts from diplomatic communication thereby accepting the veracity of the cables. So, what does this denouncement by Chidambaram mean ?

rvishwak · Post by **rvishwak** » 25 Mar 2011 19:36

^^^ No surprise that p.chidambram made that statement, very recently he made similar kind of statement in media blaming biharis and upwallahs for law and order problem in Delhi. But, making that kind of statement to a US diplomat is utterly bullshit, a GOI home minister having such a view on a region of India will give a very wrong impression about unity of the country.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Mar 2011 20:14

Chidu is par for the course. They guy really wants to break the country. A revers e of Sardar Patel the first Home Minister.

When he announced Telagana unilaterally and I pointed out his proclivity for this people got upset.

Rampy · Post by **Rampy** » 25 Mar 2011 20:20

ramana wrote:Vera_K the implication is they ant UPA to give up something. Its to embarrass them.

Ramana Garu

when I see the Wiki leaks and 2G and timing, I remember of the story that Sanku Ji wrote a while back.. as how babu's with the help of working or retired babu's take care of India.. If you know what story I am talking about..
this entire episode cannot be just coincidence.. there has to be a group and I sincerely hope they stay hidden
JMT

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 25 Mar 2011 20:43

I usually do not post what chipanda spit-lets talk....

WikiLeaks cables reveal a disturbing picture of India-U.S. relationship: Prakash Karat

just this comment

I am perplexed at this peculiar Indian reaction. Did Indians not claim to be 'Natural Allies' to USA and Israel? Did you not seek US help in combating Terrorism from a certain common source? When you make demands of a superpower then you must be prepared to submit to her demands as well. That is a Natural Alliance. Mutual and natural. It cannot always be one way; USA gives you dual use technology, advanced hardware, a once in a lifetime waiver at NSG, membership of exclusive clubs like NSG and UNSC etc etc. And then you turn around and send your ambassadors to meet Kaddafi in his tent and refuse to help US in Security Council then you send your Security Advisor Narayan to meet the Iranians and make nice. Well who needs friends like you?
from: Marc
Posted on: Mar 25, 2011 at 01:54 IST

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Mar 2011 22:07

ramana wrote:Chidu is par for the course. They guy really wants to break the country. A revers e of Sardar Patel the first Home Minister.

When he announced Telagana unilaterally and I pointed out his proclivity for this people got upset.

TWIW:

Chidu is being propped up as next PM of India in DC biz circles. Chidu is being discussed as a definite inheritor from MMS. In the biz modeling of India politics, Montek was the most preferable person but the conclusion is that Montek replacing MMS is unrealistic and hence the bets are all on Chidu. Needless to say MMS is still the darling.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 25 Mar 2011 23:25

With this leak, he can forget becoming a PM....a person of high stature cannot make such irresponsible and divisive remarks about his own country when talking to a foreign diplomat..

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Mar 2011 07:42

I cannot rely on anyone in UPA leadership for advice, Manmohan told Jaswant Singh

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh reportedly told Bharatiya Janata Party leader Jaswant Singh that he could not “rely on” anyone in the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) leadership to give him proper advice, except Finance Minister P. Chidambaram and some scientists, according to an American Embassy cable sent on October 24, 2005 ( 43447: confidential).

Jaswant Singh revealed this during a conversation with United States Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs R. Nicholas Burns on October 21, 2005. “[Jaswant] Singh said he would be frank and tell the U/S [Under Secretary] exactly what advice he had provided the PM. He opined that the UPA ‘does not have the intellectual commitment to improve US/India relations,' as it had inherited its platform in this regard from the previous NDA government, and had ‘grown into' its present position. He purportedly told the PM that India needs to stop asking for favors and start delivering to the world community,” the cable sent under the name of Ambassador David Mulford said. “[Jaswant] Singh also pointed out that the UPA would not be able to deliver as long as it was propped up by the Communists, who he claimed are bent on ‘hollowing out' the Congress party by ‘disapproving anything and everything.' Singh emphasized that these foreign policy issues are inherently political, and the PM has not properly dealt with their political dimensions,” the Ambassador reported on the conversation.

“The PM purportedly responded to Singh that he cannot ‘rely on' anyone in the UPA leadership to give him proper advice except Finance Minister Chidambaram and some of the scientists. Singh emphasized to the PM that the non-proliferation regime has changed from one of controlling testing to controlling the production of fissile material and the GOI [Government of India] needs to stay ahead of these trends. He also endorsed a missile defense system for India, saying that it makes sense to adopt a defensive rather than an offensive strategy,” the cable recorded Jaswant Singh's version of the conversation.

“Singh characterized the PM as a ‘good economist,' who is good at ‘reading paper,' but not strong on executing policy,” the Ambassador cabled. In a concluding comment on the discussions between Mr. Burns and Jaswant Singh, he said: “Singh made the right noises regarding NDA support for the US/India agenda, and the Indian stance regarding Iran in the IAEA, but appeared more focused on domestic politics than the international agenda.”

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 26 Mar 2011 07:52

It is a divisive remark only if you want to interpret it that way. I see it only as a statement about statistics.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 26 Mar 2011 08:16

^^^ But why with foreign diplomats. That is a problem.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Mar 2011 08:16

Is it me or is UPA's performance wrt Indo-US relations has prompted the US to look more favourably at the NDA?

Surely there seems to be a move to build bridges with the NDA / BJP wallahs.

The UPA also seems to have shot itself in its foot with the seemingly endless string of huge corruption scandals one after the other. The voting public would have observed this.

So far wikileaks has done much damage to the UPA netas.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Mar 2011 09:32

In some thread I said the US will go back to NDA.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 64#p782364
Dec 2009 to be precise.....

I think Jaswant Singh will report he had reported to the PM what he told the Amby.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 26 Mar 2011 11:46

One of the things that people have lost focus of completely is that these cables are all "interpretations" of a diplomat of events and conversations purportedly had with people in India..these are not trasncripts, so we dont know what actually transpired - at best these are paraphrases, and hence subject to the motives and biases of the writer...

Also, none of the conversations till now reveal anything that we already didnt know...And things that hav not been discussed in the public domain...Did the PM have full supprot of the Congress on the nuke deal? It was more than evident that he didnt...So if some people have spoken liekwise, its hardly leaking state secrets...To be honest, till now whatever has come out only reinforces the notion that Indians are garrulous (as expected!) but the principals are quite steadfast about not revealing anything of material interst!

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 26 Mar 2011 12:04

Muppalla wrote: According to a diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks, Chidambaram told US Ambassador Timothy Roemer that India would have registered higher growth rates 'if it were the south and west only', because 'the rest of the country held it back'.

Oh well, I guess the reason is that South India does not have a dance form, served as a buffer zone for invasions, 1857 genocide, back-breaking taxes under mughals, famines that killed millions and millions, and general loot of British and Islamic hordes for 800 years or so.

All this turmoil has made South India stronger and this no doubt shows up in higher GDP rate, lower poverty, higher education rate etc because rest assured as Mr Chidambram knows that the more turmoil your region has been through historically, the better your long term GDP growth, education level, and culture will be along with complete lack of a dance form.

But dance is different becuase certainly you need a lot of peace for development of dance forms as illustrated by the multitude of dance forms that exist in North India as opposed to complete lack of one in South India. And as Chidambram knows all this is well-established and proven economic/social theory.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 26 Mar 2011 12:46

I too don't see why the big fuss about PCs remarks...after all he is right. Reasons or justifications may be a hundred including those pointed out by dhiman (some self inflicted injuries like MSY, Lalloo-Rabri, Mayawati notwithstanding), but fact is fact. It is same as American ambassador remarking that his country would be more liberal if Mississippi, Missouri and Alabama were part of Mexico.

As to the timing of the release, there is no CT here. Whether or not Assange is a plant of western establishment, these leaks are not about India, they have a much bigger cause/reason. As to why now our psuedo liberals and yellow puppets who generally take anything coming from Unkil as false and not worth believing are swallowing this 100% and issuing certificates of merit or demerit on that basis is not hard to understand. Had Unkils' servant simply issued these as press releases and not secret memos, the fuss would have been much less.

For a while now the Stalinists (and their yellow puppets) have become frustrated with the dynasty. Far from being faithful useful idiots, the dynasty and the wily Singh have turned the tables - it is the Stalinists who are now the useful idiots, serving the dynasty as and when required and getting thrown away like used condom when not.. Like the Pavlovian dog, they have been trained to come drooling ,whenever dynasty throws some crumbs its way. All the dynasty has to do is to make some anti-Modi or anti-Hindu statement once in a while (resident comedians like Diggy more than happy to oblige) such as declaring Ram to be a myth. The Stalinist and their yellow/intellectual puppets get into a tizzy and start singing the dynasty's tunes.

Realisation has crept in gradually and hence both the Stalilnist and their yellow puppets are ratcheting up the anti-dynasty noise level....Beijing must also be highly frustrated by all this economic growth, defense budget boost and pro-US tilt of MMS and putting pressure... depending on what happens in April, a new bunch of rapist goons may be appointed to bring things back to good old days...

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 26 Mar 2011 13:13

Suppiah wrote:but fact is fact.

This maybe going off topic (I really don't know), but this is a moot fact Sir. The real fact is that that if North India wasn't there South India would have been what North India is today

It is same as American ambassador remarking that his country would be more liberal if Mississippi, Missouri and Alabama were part of Mexico.

That is a fact!

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 26 Mar 2011 17:37

Dhiman wrote:Oh well, I guess the reason is that South India does not have a dance form, served as a buffer zone for invasions, 1857 genocide, back-breaking taxes under mughals, famines that killed millions and millions, and general loot of British and Islamic hordes for 800 years or so.

All this turmoil has made South India stronger and this no doubt shows up in higher GDP rate, lower poverty, higher education rate etc because rest assured as Mr Chidambram knows that the more turmoil your region has been through historically, the better your long term GDP growth, education level, and culture will be along with complete lack of a dance form.

Dhiman-ji, another case of much ado about nothing...Forget PC talking to the American envoy, Jairam Ramesh propounded this "East of Kanpur, West of Kanpur" theory on developmental progress some time back - publicly, and has become quite a part fo the standard economic lexicon..So whats the problem?

About the so-called "deficit" suffered by North and East India, nothing can be farther from the truth...At independence, Est India was the industrial powerhouse of the country, and Punjab was the agricultural...Even Bihar was quite "upper middle" in socio-economic indicators...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Mar 2011 17:48

Folks, let's not get into N-S or E-W debates here. That's not the question at stake here.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Mar 2011 20:32

Suppiah, I suggest you withdraw your remarks as they are anti-national. We cant call ourselves BR with such remarks. PC and JR remarks are both anti-national and parochial. Its unfortunate that the political system allows them space. We dont have to.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 26 Mar 2011 21:00

IMO, cash-for-votes is a significantly more anti-national activity than PC's reported statement - which is really just a standard statement of fact that is common among economists. Such statements are meant to be true as of a particular point in time, and as and when Bihar and heartland show higher growth rates (Bihar has already surpassed the south on this) the statement could very well be reversed. Wouldn't read too much into this - competition among states on the growth front should be encouraged.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 27 Mar 2011 05:23

Ramana-ji if we don't even recognise the gap how are we gonna fix it?

I am really surprised that PCs ( and much less on the scale of importance) my remarks are considered anti-national! Anyway, take it as withdrawn...

Just a bit of history - it was not always like that...DMK rowdies made a career out of saying 'vadaku vazgirathu, therku theigirathu' which means the north is flourishing and the south is floundering...that was hardly a generation ago...when the importance of govt led investment declined, naturally money goes to where it gets most bang. Nitish and others are slowly reversing that...good luck to them...amen.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 27 Mar 2011 08:25

Karan Thapar role in 26-11

Now that WikiLeaks has confirmed the broad details of a mystifying but intriguing story from 26/11, I feel free to add my own contribution to the tale.

I’m talking of the hoax call made to the president of Pakistan, Asif Zardari, allegedly by the then finance minister, Pranab Mukherjee, at the height of the terror attack. Mr Mukherjee, it is claimed, threatened an immediate military response. In response, the Pakistani Air Force scrambled its fighter jets and went on high alert.

Here’s my role in this strange saga. 26/11 finally ended in the early hours of Saturday, November 29, 2008. Just past noon, I interviewed President Zardari by satellite. Around 3 pm he called to find out if the interview was okay. At the end of that conversation he suddenly said, “By the way, the next time you meet your foreign minister please advise him not to ring and threaten people.”

I was stumped. What on earth was Asif talking about? In a guarded manner he told me the story from his viewpoint. A caller claiming to be Pranab Mukherjee had rung late at night a day or so ago and effectively threatened war. The Pakistanis informed the Americans who, if my memory is correct, said Condoleezza Rice had also received a similar call although, in her case, it had not been put through.

Although Asif had told me to pass on the message when I next “bumped into” Mr Mukherjee, I decided to do so at once. Mr Mukherjee heard me in rapt silence. He did not reveal that the story I was recounting had kept him up all night, if not for the last two nights. All he said was: “But I haven’t spoken to the president of Pakistan. How could I have called him? It’s not proper for a foreign minister to directly ring a head of State.”

Twenty-four hours later, on the afternoon of Sunday the 30th, I got a call from Satyabarata Pal, our high commissioner in Islamabad. “Karan, this is about your conversation with the FM yesterday.” When I pretended I had no idea what he was talking about, Shotto laughed loudly. “That’s ok. I know all about it. But I need you to do something.”

Shotto told me the Pakistanis were convinced the caller was Pranab Mukherjee and unwilling to accept it was not. He described the frenzied reaction in Islamabad on the night it happened and confirmed that the Americans had been roped in and that Condy Rice had also been phoned.

“I want you to ring your friend and personally assure him that it wasn’t Mr Mukherjee. Tell him what the FM told you. We need to bring this story to a quick end.”

A few hours later, when I rang Asif he chuckled as I spoke. “No, Karan, it wasn’t a hoax. We’ve noted the number from where the call originated. It’s said to be in your foreign ministry. But leave all that aside. It’s a closed chapter. Tell them to forget about it.”

Shotto was relieved to hear the final outcome. He said the fact the Pakistanis claimed to have an MEA number on record could be explained in a number of ways, all to do with telecom technology. “Now you must ring the FM and tell him.”

I got through to Mr Mukherjee late at night on Monday the 1st or perhaps it was December 2, I can’t be certain. When I finished speaking he replied in a voice free of tension and I could sense he was smiling. “Thank you, Karan. For once you’ve been very useful!” The phone call ended with the FM enjoying his own joke.

At the time I asked Mr Mukherjee to keep my ‘role’ under wraps and he agreed. So did Shotto and Asif. But now that WikiLeaks has sprung the story I feel I can also spill the beans.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Mar 2011 09:35

Shows that TSP can be spoofed to launch an attack as they are so paranoid delusional. Wonder why didn't they use the hotline between Pindi and Delhi?

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 27 Mar 2011 11:21

‘After Rahul's gaffes, Congress hopes shifted to Priyanka'

After Rahul Gandhi, “the heir-apparent of the Gandhi family dynasty,” made a series of political gaffes in 2007, party insiders were waiting for the entry of his sister Priyanka Gandhi into politics, according to an assessment by the United States Embassy in New Delhi.

In a cable sent on April 23, 2007, Charge d'Affaires Geoffrey Pyatt (105346: confidential) said: “Congress insiders complain that he (Rahul Gandhi) is a neophyte who does not have what it takes to become Prime Minister. Their hopes have now shifted to yet another member of the Nehru dynasty, Rahul's sister Priyanka, as they await her entry into politics.”

Making specific references to statements Mr. Gandhi made during a series of ‘road shows' as part of the campaign for the Uttar Pradesh Assembly election, the cable said the gaffes suggested an “uneven start” to his active political career. On April 15, in a speech at a campaign rally, he had said: “I belong to the family which has never moved backwards, which has never gone back on its words. You know that when any member of my family had decided to do anything, he does it. Be it the freedom struggle, the division of Pakistan or taking India into the 21st Century.”

Prior to this, he had stated that the Babri Masjid “would have been protected had a member of the Gandhi family been in power.” At another rally, he had said the Congress's “slide into the political wilderness in UP” started with its 1996 alliance with Mayawati and her Bahujan Samaj Party.

The cable reported an April 18 discussion with “Congress leader and Gandhi family insider” Nachiketa Kapur. Readers will recall that Mr. Kapur figured in the now famous cable dated July 17, 2008 (162458: secret) published by The Hindu on March 17. The cable reported on “two chests containing cash” Mr. Kapur (who was described as Satish Sharma's “political aide”) showed a U.S. Embassy employee, adding that these were part of “around Rupees 50-60 crore…lying around the house for use as pay-offs” to MPs in the July 22, 2008 confidence vote.

Frank views

In a breezy section headlined ‘The Dynasty Dying Nasty,' the cable said: “Kapoor [Kapur] was adamant that Rahul's elliptical statements were spontaneous and off the cuff. Rahul's speechwriter has reportedly confirmed that the remarks were unscripted and that Rahul refuses to use remarks drafted for him. Opining that Rahul is ‘out of touch,' Kapoor noted that he has ‘no close friends or advisors,' and that his own staff keeps him ‘at arm's length' as he is ‘arrogant and rude and doesn't accept guidance from anyone.' Kapoor exclaimed that Rahul ‘has no future, no talent for politics and will never be PM, as he has done nothing for the past three years.' Kapoor pointed out that even if Congress wanted to make Rahul PM, it would not be able to do so, as it does not have an absolute majority and must rely on its coalition partners to stay in power. Implying that Rahul's moment has already come and gone, Kapoor claimed that Congress insiders are predictably pinning their hopes on yet another of Nehru Dynasty member, Rahul's sister Priyanka, and are waiting for the day when she will enter politics.”

The Comment section of the cable, cattily titled ‘Son Set,' expressed this view: “In any event, regardless of the outcome of the UP elections, Rahul has made an uneven entry into active politics. While crowds at his “road show” events are often large, Rahul has not yet demonstrated that he has the charisma required to make it in Indian politics.”

In an earlier cable dated October 17, 2006 (82135: confidential), Mr. Pyatt said: “Heir apparent Rahul Gandhi continues to languish with little popular support, but we are told that his mother remains determined to install him as PM at the ‘appropriate' time.”

In an October 11, 2006 meeting, “Sonia Gandhi confidant” Rashid Alvi insisted that “despite his lack of public appeal and political skills,” Mrs Gandhi will install her son as Prime Minister. “Alvi pointed out that Rahul's ascension to the Gandhi family seat is not imminent, as it will ‘take time' for him to be made ready, but there is no doubt that the party's fortunes are inextricably tied to the young man's presumed strengths and unexplored weaknesses.”

(This article is a part of the series "The India Cables" based on the US diplomatic cables accessed by The Hindu via WikiLeaks.)

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 27 Mar 2011 11:23

30212: Congress culture defines Sonia Gandhi's role

30212, 04/06/2005 13:16, 05NEWDELHI2602, Embassy New Delhi, CONFIDENTIAL,, "This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.061316Z Apr 05","C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 NEW DELHI 002602

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 04/06/2015 TAGS: PGOV, PINR, ECON, IN, Indian Domestic Politics

SUBJECT: CONGRESS CULTURE DEFINES SONIA GANDHI'S ROLE

Classified By: DCM Robert O. Blake, Jr. for Reasons 1.4 (B, D)

1.(C) Summary: Since the Congress-dominated government has been in power, there have been widespread allegations by the opposition BJP and media commentators that party President Sonia Gandhi has been pulling the strings of government. Our conversations with a wide variety of insiders suggest that her role is more muted and nuanced. She has deliberately attempted to preserve the image of being ""above the fray"" politically, taking maximum advantage of Congress culture, which prescribes that the party figurehead be surrounded by an ""inner coterie"" to provide advice, and shield the leader from criticism and dissent. The Gandhis remain coy as to which of their many advisors are ""in"" and which are ""out,"" leading to endless speculation, and large numbers of people claiming to be ""close to the Gandhi family."" Mrs. Gandhi also heads the National Advisory Council, the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Steering Committee, and a committee that administers relations with the Left Front (LF). She restricts her role in these meetings to presiding as chair and utilizes senior Congress leaders to do the talking. Embassy contacts emphasize that Mrs. Gandhi prefers to wield power behind the scenes, relying on discrete back-channel communications with key figures in Congress and allied parties to address outstanding problems. While this elaborate system protects her from blame for GOI shortcomings, it also complicates honest assessments, as her handlers strictly control information flow and access. End Summary.

The Web Around Sonia

--------------------

2. (C) For decades, Congress culture has had an ""inner coterie"" around the Gandhi family, to offer them advice and protect them from dissenting opinions and criticism. The family has been secretive about who belongs to the inner circle, which makes it difficult to define the current membership. Embassy contacts claim that this complex web assists and inhibits Mrs. Gandhi to wield power. While the BJP accuses Mrs. Gandhi of acting ""as a shadow Prime Minister,"" our contacts generally agree that she and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh have defined their roles, with the PM acting as a corruption-free technocrat handling governance, who remains above the political fray, while Mrs. Gandhi concentrates on the constant give-and-take associated with running an enormous political party with tens of millions of members and a disparate coalition.

3. (C) Mrs. Gandhi's three principal advisors, Ahmed Patel, Ambika Soni and Jairam Ramesh, have served the Gandhi family for many years, and derive their power through proximity to her. Party insiders believe that Soni is on the ascendant and currently among those individuals that Mrs. Gandhi trusts the most. Ramesh is primarily viewed as a thinker and wordsmith, who drafts Mrs. Gandhi's speeches and helps shape her views. Insiders dismiss Ahmed Patel as an intellectual lightweight, known primarily for his skills as a political ""errand boy"" who gets things done behind the scenes for Mrs. Gandhi. His star has fallen after allegedly mismanaging recent assembly elections in Jharkhand and Bihar.

4. (C) Unlike the advisors, who tend to remain with the Gandhis over the long-term, individual politicians move in and out of Mrs. Gandhi's inner circle. At present, the three most prominent include HRD Minister Arjun Singh, Party General Secretary Digvijay Singh, and Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar. All three are extremely ambitious and would like to become Prime Minister. According to our sources, Arjun Singh's chances are fading, as he is viewed as too old and too overbearing. Sharad Pawar, once plagued by ill health, seems to have recovered and is considered one of the most senior and competent of the old Congress leadership. Digvijay Singh, the former Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh, is highly regarded as one of the few senior Congress leaders with the ""common touch."" Foreign Minister Natwar Singh, Home Minister Shivraj Patil and Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee occupy a separate orbit of super Ministers whose long-standing personal ties to the Gandhi family and seniority in Congress politics allow direct personal access to Mrs. Gandhi, and routine input on Congress decision making across a range of issues. Of these three, Mukherjee is clearly the most formidable -- and reportedly harbors the greatest hope of some day becoming Prime Minister.

Sonia and the NAC

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5. (C) Although the National Advisory Council (NAC) has attracted considerable media attention, most agree that it is the least significant of the three bodies Mrs. Gandhi chairs, and is most notable for providing her with cabinet status. Sonia is said to be a strong backer of the Common Minimum Program (CMP), drafted by the Left parties and Congress after the 2004 electoral victory. She views the CMP as a useful tool that will keep the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) together. The UPA government established the NAC to ""interface with civil society in the implementation of the CMP."" Its functions are to:

--monitor implementation of the CMP;

--provide inputs for GOI policy formulation; and --support GOI legislative business.

6. (C) Mrs. Gandhi's role as NAC Chairman provides her with Cabinet rank and a ""secretariat"" with a complement of civil servants and staff that report directly to her, as well as office space and a travel budget. The NAC members consist of intellectuals, former civil servants, and academics, including a number of heavyweights from India's NGO community. NAC members are predominantly of a leftist ideological bent and maintain cordial relations with the Communists. Jairam Ramesh, who helped draft the CMP, is also a member, and has played an active role in the two or three meetings held since its creation. Members receive no compensation or government rank. Contacts tell us that while Mrs. Gandhi nominally chairs the sessions, she restricts her involvement to brief opening and closing statements.

7. (C) The NAC website provides access to papers drafted by the members, but it has not issued a policy document or played a significant role in policy formulation since its formation. Since the NAC has been largely moribund, some political observers theorize that Congress created it to provide Mrs. Gandhi with needed Cabinet rank and infrastructure, to help convince the Communists that it was serious about the CMP, to help burnish Mrs. Gandhi's image as a ""compassionate leader"" who cares about the poor, and to provide entre for NGOs in the policy process.

Sonia and the UPA

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8. (C) There are three components that must be placated and balanced to keep the UPA government in power: Congress, the Communist parties, and the regional/caste parties. Sonia and the Congress leadership complain about Communist obstruction, but are convinced that these parties, although ideological, are not ""irresponsible."" In the eyes of Congress leaders, most Communists are ""pragmatic,"" projecting an image of looking after the poor and downtrodden, in order to mollify the party faithful, while not preventing government from functioning.

9. (C) While many in the Congress inner circle have some affinity with the Communists and work together with them on selected issues, they view the regional satraps of the UPA allies with disdain, and prefer to keep them at arm's length. The recent Congress fiasco in Bihar, for example, convinced many in Congress that Bihar-based politicos Laloo Prasad Yadav and Ram Vilas Paswan are ""loose cannons"" who cannot be trusted. Their disdain for these often rustic regional politicians has prevented Congress from properly managing the UPA coalition. Because of these engrained prejudices, Congress has been unable to focus on the BJP as its principal adversary, and instead has become mired in internecine squabbling.

10. (C) Mrs. Gandhi chairs the UPA Steering Committee, which is supposed to provide a forum for UPA members to work out their differences. It has met no more than six times in the almost 11 months since the UPA came to power. Since the Communists support the UPA from the outside, they are not members of this committee, and hold their own meetings with Sonia and the Congress leadership on a weekly basis. This suggests that the UPA Steering Committee is primarily intended to coordinate policy between Congress and the regional/caste parties. One of the most powerful regional parties, the Samajwadi Party (SP) of Uttar Pradesh (UP) led by Chief Minister Mulayam Singh Yadav, also supports the UPA from outside and is not a member of the committee, while another, the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) does not support the UPA.

11. (C) According to our contacts, Mrs. Gandhi plays a similar role in the Steering Committee meetings as she does in the NAC, sitting silently through meetings without participating and leaving substantive statements to Congress heavyweights. Congress Cabinet ministers participate in these meetings on an ad hoc basis according to the issues under discussion, and Sonia lets them present the party position. These include, Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee, who does not restrict himself to defense issues but also addresses economic questions, Home Minister Shivraj Patil, Foreign Minister Natwar Singh, and Finance Minister Chidambaram, among others.

12. (C) Our contacts tell us that few tangible results have emerged from these meetings, which are held largely for public consumption and to demonstrate to the public that Congress is a responsible party interested in ""coalition maintenance."" In reality, Sonia Gandhi and the Congress leadership prefer to work most UPA management issues out of the public eye,"" relying on phone calls and personal visits that are not open to prying eyes and the media.

Congress and the Communists

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13. (C) Several interlocutors claimed that the weekly meetings with the Communists, also attended by Mrs. Gandhi, are more important than the UPA Steering Committee meetings, as Congress has determined that it will put forward no significant economic initiative without first vetting it with the Communists, and attempting to gain their assent. In addition to formal meetings, Mrs. Gandhi calls Left Front leaders to her residence for ""breakfast"" on an ad hoc basis. The breakfasts take place only when Sonia and her advisors deem that there is an issue so pressing that it requires a conclave. Mrs. Gandhi expects the meetings to be private and the press is not invited. However, in some instances participants will brief journalists off the record about what transpired. Congress leaders also routinely call their Communist counterparts on the telephone to discuss a wide range of issues. It is not clear whether Mrs. Gandhi personally telephones the Communist leadership, or whether she leaves that to her subordinates.

Comment

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14. (C) As one of the world's oldest and largest political parties, Congress has evolved an elaborate culture aimed at protecting the Gandhi dynasty. Mrs. Gandhi's inner circle carefully controls her access to information, and inoculates her from criticism, while her carefully scripted public appearances protect her from making gaffes or missteps. This has the advantage of preserving the ""sanctity"" of Mrs. Gandhi and the dynasty, but can also complicate her efforts to wield power. This system prevents Mrs. Gandhi from asserting herself and reduces her charisma, and makes her overly reliant on a selected group, which may not always have her or the party's best interests at heart. She appears more comfortable working with the often high-caste and well-educated Communists than with regional satraps of the state-based parties, which suggests that the bumpy Congress/UPA relationship is likely to continue.

MULFORD "

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Mar 2011 11:53

“Congress insiders complain that he (Rahul Gandhi) is a neophyte who does not have what it takes to become Prime Minister. Their hopes have now shifted to yet another member of the Nehru dynasty, Rahul's sister Priyanka, as they await her entry into politics.”

We truely are a banana republic!!

One family member turns out to be a nikamma and immediately, everone turns towards the other to fill the gap!!?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 27 Mar 2011 12:00

kmkraoind wrote:In an earlier cable dated October 17, 2006 (82135: confidential), Mr. Pyatt said: “Heir apparent Rahul Gandhi continues to languish with little popular support, but we are told that his mother remains determined to install him as PM at the ‘appropriate' time.”

In an October 11, 2006 meeting, “Sonia Gandhi confidant” Rashid Alvi insisted that “despite his lack of public appeal and political skills,” Mrs Gandhi will install her son as Prime Minister. “Alvi pointed out that Rahul's ascension to the Gandhi family seat is not imminent, as it will ‘take time' for him to be made ready, but there is no doubt that the party's fortunes are inextricably tied to the young man's presumed strengths and unexplored weaknesses.”

(This article is a part of the series "The India Cables" based on the US diplomatic cables accessed by The Hindu via WikiLeaks.)

With such sycophantic dynastyism and unadulterated feudalism on display from Gandhi family ~~boot-lickers~~ supporters - wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread derision in Western diplomatic circles about India's fancy 'largest democracy' credentials.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 27 Mar 2011 12:09

sum wrote:
“Congress insiders complain that he (Rahul Gandhi) is a neophyte who does not have what it takes to become Prime Minister. Their hopes have now shifted to yet another member of the Nehru dynasty, Rahul's sister Priyanka, as they await her entry into politics.”
We truely are a banana republic!!

One family member turns out to be a nikamma and immediately, everone turns towards the other to fill the gap!!?

I was talking to one senior professor at NALSAR regarding the direction of law in light of wiki leaks. He had a lot to say about it but a point he suggested really had a big ben ringing in my head. There is only one way India can become a true power.

1. Introduce national security studies at 10th standard and start a discipline at 10+2 level and degree level.
2. Give them an option to enter strategic affairs/foreign service/armed forces etc. after 10+2/degree.
3. He felt India needs a culture change in order to survive after 20 years. Its high time we start seeding.

Sooner or later a visionary leader would be output from this system. Just like we produced IT/ fin wizs from our IITs and IIMs. Congress or BJP will die a natural death when we have a whole batches of national security grads graduating and get absorbed into our system.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 27 Mar 2011 12:21

Altair wrote:Congress or BJP will die a natural death when we have a whole batches of national security grads graduating and get absorbed into our system.

Those wishing to see death of BJP will die first

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 27 Mar 2011 12:32

Arjun wrote:With such sycophantic dynastyism and unadulterated feudalism on display from Gandhi family ~~boot-lickers~~ supporters - wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread derision in Western diplomatic circles about India's fancy 'largest democracy' credentials.

Indian political system -
For outsides it is democracy.
For insiders it is moneycracy.
For ordinary Indians it is "Demonocracy."

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Mar 2011 12:44

ramana wrote:Shows that TSP can be spoofed to launch an attack as they are so paranoid delusional. Wonder why didn't they use the hotline between Pindi and Delhi?

There is an operational hotline between the DGMOs of both sides, then there is a recently established hotline between the Coast Guards. There was a hotline to be setup between the foreign secretaries, but I am not sure if it is operational.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 27 Mar 2011 17:16

'Cash for runs'

Indrajit Hazra, Hindustan Times
March 26, 2011

One more bloody Urdu couplet and I’ll join Parliament myself. If I had known that the high point in the parliamentary ‘discussion’ on Wednesday over the cash-for-votes ruckus would be Sushma Swaraj and Manmohan Singh being qawwals, I would have hired a few handclappers and harmoniums to make the day’s proceedings a more tuneful affair.
Instead of getting on track to answer the only question that matters — were parliamentarians bribed before the UPA government’s July 2008 confidence vote? — the nation was waylaid into wah-wahing the leader of the Opposition and the prime minister as they recreated Zeenat Aman’s and Rishi Kapoor’s poetic duel in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin.

But pearls of poetry haven’t been the only red herrings strewn about to throw dogs off the scent. Since Manmohan Singh is convinced that no one from the Congress or the government “indulged in any unlawful act” in the run-up to the July 2008 confidence vote, it was left to the government and its cheerleaders to ensure that the world shares his conviction. And in case there are difficulties in taking the PM’s assurance at bearded face value, rubber dinghies have been floated, in which you can paddle your way out of the real issue altogether.

Take the aachar-papad side dish of the whole thing being an entrapment. Tehelka magazine’s last issue ran a cover story about the news channel CNN-IBN having acted on the behest of the BJP when it conducted a sting operation in 2008 that showed Sanjeev Saxena, a flunky of the then Samajwadi Party leader Amar Singh, handing over money to BJP MP Ashok Argal before the trust vote. This, the government now tells us, was a set-up that the Delhi Police is looking into.

But hang on. Even if it was entrapment, money did exchange hands. Or was it, as the inviolate senior statesman Amar Singh now tells us crossing his heart and hoping to die, all a charade just to discredit a government that thinks that ‘horse-trading’ is something that only bad people like Hasan Ali Khan engage in? To ask why a TV channel was in cahoots with the BJP to destablise the government is besides the point. It’s like asking why an umpire sided with the bowler when the latter appealed against a batsman.

Then there’s the other rubber dinghy: Why on earth should we take the secret jottings of an American diplomat so seriously?

True, the content of the WikiLeak could be dumb analysis and sloppy reportage. The wads shown to the American embassy staffer may well have been Monopoly money and the Congressman bragging about ‘buying votes’ could have been having a laugh.

But even if a Martian sends a missive to Mars about something that suggests Indian MPs being bribed for their votes, it is our business to take the matter seriously and try to verify the contents of the intercepted Martian cable.

But there’s another balloon that’s been floated in the air. Why had, this balloon asks, the BJP kept quiet all this while after Cash-for-Votes Version 1.0? After all, KC Deo, heading the committee that was conducting investigations into the issue, stated earlier this month that the probe report wasn’t a “closed chapter”.

Well, the truth is that until the WikiLeak, there had been no further lead available to take the issue forward — although the currency notes brought into Parliament in 2008 could have been investigated (and still can be). Now, someone can actually take Nachiketa ‘Bling’ Kapur, who allegedly showed the US embassy employee the Congress’ enviable purchasing power, out for some drinks and hope for a long uninhibited chat.

We don’t have a culture of mainstream protest beyond the candlelight vigil (they’ve started to all look the same, anyway). All that traffic of outrage and concern over Twitter and Facebook is all very sophisticated, but it overwhelmingly preaches to the converted. There’s nothing as effective as banners held up in front of all those TV cameras while an India-Pakistan World Cup semi-final match is in progress.

So if you’re there in the stands on Wednesday, along with your ‘Sachin = God’ and ‘Go India go!’ signs, why don’t you hold up a placard while India is batting that simply says: ‘Cash for runs’. It may not be Urdu poetry, but you’ll be surprised how moved fellow India supporter there at Mohali, Manmohan Singh, could be.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Mar 2011 18:18

^^ Clown Prince ( "Son set" in the words of the US Amby

) references in the cables seem to have been completely glossed over by the paid DDM with not even a peep about the words attributed to RG by both his "loyalists" and the US officials.

Can one imagine if even 1/10th of those words had been said about anyone in the BJP? The DDM would have brought out a special supplement just to discuss the divisions within the party etc..