Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Aug 21, 2013

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Oct 2013 23:53

^ They must have already re spawned with names IMT, UIM and UIJ.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 02:09

Paan Supari
Report cites Iran gas pipeline as ‘economic death sentence’
( Its only economic death which can bring Islamist Utopia In Paki PooTopia)

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan's plan to import natural gas by pipeline from neighboring Iran would be an economic ''death sentence'' for the country because the gas price is too high, a Pakistani advocacy group said in a report released Wednesday. Despite US pressure, the Pakistani government struck a deal with Iran to import gas in the hope of relieving the country's energy crisis, especially the shortage of electricity. The mabad-based Sustainable Development Policy Institute (SDPI) said in its report that the contract with Iran means the gas sold to Pakistan likely will be several times more expensive than the domestic gas currently used. “This is a death sentence for Pakistan's economy,” the report said. It criticised Pakistani officials who “blatantly ignored the energy dynamics and its pricing while going for this deal.” An official at the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources rejected the report, saying the pipeline project was good for Pakistan. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to talk to journalists. The advocacy group's findings represent the latest challenge to the plan. There are also serious doubts about how Pakistan could finance the at least $1.5 billion needed to construct the pipeline and whether it could go through with the project without facing US sanctions in place over Iran's nuclear program. “This gas will be an economic disaster for us,” said the lead author of the report, Arshad Abbasi, at its release in Islamabad. The chief guest was Shamsul Mulk, an ex-chairman of Pakistan's water and power authority and former head of the advocacy group's board of governors. Many other former senior officials and academics are affiliated with the institute.
The report called on the Pakistani government to renegotiate its contract with Iran and uncouple the price of gas with the cost of oil. That could produce lower gas prices that are closer to Pakistan's domestic cost of gas. The agreement with Iran stipulates that Pakistan must construct its side of the pipeline by December 2014. If the country fails to meet this deadline, it will be liable to pay fines that could run into the millions of dollars per day. . The US has opposed the project, instead promoting an alternative pipeline that runs from the gas fields of Turkmenistan to Afghanistan, Pakistan and then to India. The US also has championed a number of electricity generation projects within Pakistan, such as helping renovate hydropower dams. The advocacy group also championed the use of hydrypower, which is much cheaper than gas but can require significant up-front costs.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 02:13

http://www.dawn.com/news/1051311/nawaz- ... a-underway
Nawaz arrives at White House, meeting with Obama underwear

Wednesday he urged President Barack Obama to end drone strikes in Pakistan, touching on a thorny subject in relations between the two countries.
PM Sharif and President Obama were speaking after a 90-minute long one on one meeting at the White House’s Oval Office.“I also brought up the issue of drones in our meeting, emphasizing the need to end ... such strikes,” said the prime minister.Obama said he wanted to prevent security cooperation from being a source of tension between the US and Pakistan. Sharif said that he brought up US drone strikes in Pakistan and that the strikes need to end. The strikes have been a sore point in relations between the two countries. Obama said fighting terrorism was a challenge and was not easy, adding that he and Sharif discussed security and how they can cooperate in ways that respect Pakistan.The Pakistani premier said they discussed building a constructive relationship with Pakistan's archrival India, including on Kashmir. Obama agreed saying Afghanistan and India were also on the agenda.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 24 Oct 2013 03:08

The Muslim Conquest of India: From Will Durant’s Classic 11-Volume ‘Story of Civilization

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 24 Oct 2013 03:41

Now what is this sirjee?

Chinese defense exports

The other jet is the JF-17, a less-sophisticated aircraft that an American official said had been in the works for about two decades in an “on-again, off-again” project. The jet was ostensibly the product of a joint venture between Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation, also an AVIC subsidiary, but China did the real work , said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the secrecy surrounding military projects. So far, Pakistan is the only client, and the official said he believed Pakistan had made a “political decision” to buy it.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 24 Oct 2013 04:14

Is Badmash losing his hair again?

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 24 Oct 2013 07:34

Pakistan bans three extremist outfits, on orders from China
Quote:
ISLAMABAD : The Pakistani government on Wednesday decided to ban three international extremist organisations allegedly involved in insurgent activities in the Chinese province of Xinjiang, BBC Urdu reported.

The website quoted sources in the Ministry of Interior Affairs as saying that Chinese authorities and security agencies believed the three organisations were involved in extremist and insurgent activities in the Muslim-majority province of Xinjiang.

The outfits banned include the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) and Islamic Jihad Union (IJU).

There is some typing error. Actually it is "Pakistan bans names of three extremist outfits, on order from china"

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 24 Oct 2013 08:02

Lalmohan wrote:Leave the Army alone to do its job

When I travelled to the LoC in early September with Barkha Dutt and met officers and soldiers deployed right on the LoC fence in Krishna Ghati, BhimberGali, Hamirpur in Poonch sector, the josh and morale was exemplary. A befitting reply to Pakistani mischief was being given every day--and night.

Thanks Lalchix.

While each individual here has a right to post their POV, I would like to point out, as what I see as a disturbing trend:

a) The amount of negativity just because the news, from our side is not published. I wonder how many of the posters were at a mature enough age during the '65 and '71 wars? To understand what was going on compared to what was reported? I used to listen to various news broadcasts over the radio, scan various publications the next day, and always felt proud, that we were a bit understated, whereas Pakistan was mainly propaganda. With friends and relatives in the Indian Armed Forces, it was only after the wars ended did I garner titbits of heart warming information about what we did.

b) It saddens me to see this negativity, and also the blame apportioned to quarters opposite to the colour of the posters. Is it relevant? Where the posters there? If not eyewitnesses to what they say, wouldn't it be a poster's version of their own personal DDMitis?

c) The combined negativity, which I am sure is not intentional from patriotic posters, is nothing but music to pakis ears. Their armed forces would never disclose if they have got a hammering. No, we aren't perfect, but remember which country, which war, was anybody perfect?

And to end it I would like to just make two points;

a)How many of the negative posters have been in the line of fire?

b) And to remember John F Kennedy's famous words "Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country" ( I believe during the Cuban Missile Crises)

It would be nice if we could stand as a house united, rather than belittle just because it is easy to belittle. My POV is that I feel this negative trend actually alarming and disheartening.

(Mods: If this it OT for this thread, my apologies and I will remove or post it elsewhere as you may suggest)

arun · Post by **arun** » 24 Oct 2013 08:09

Usual duplicity of the Military and other lesser elites of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on display with the Washington Post revealing that even as the Pakistani public was being told that drone strikes were strongly opposed, the Military and other lesser elites of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan were complicit in the attacks:

Secret memos reveal explicit nature of U.S., Pakistan agreement on drones

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 08:23

Dismal State: Pakistan’s current account deficit widens to $1.2b

KARACHI:
Pakistan’s current account deficit as opposed to a surplus of $439 million in the corresponding three-month period of last year, widened to $1.2 billion in the first quarter of fiscal 2014 (July-September), according to data released by the State Bank of Pakistan on Wednesday.
The data shows that the current account deficit in September alone was $608 million, up 7% compared to $569 million in August.Talking to The Express Tribune, Standard Chartered Bank Senior Economist, Sayem Ali said that the cause of the widening current account deficit is increasing imports although a considerable pick-up was recorded in exports and remittances over the same period.Compared to the corresponding period last year, Pakistan’s exports of goods amounted to $6.2 billion, up 1.3% in the first quarter of fiscal 2014. In contrast, Pakistan’s imports of goods increased 8.9% to $10.6 billion over the same period. “This is driven primarily by higher oil prices and rising energy demand in peak summer months that led to an inflated import bill,” said Ali.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Oct 2013 08:58

To Strike the Right Balance - Lt. Gen (Retd) Syed Ata Hasnain.

Pakistan has upped the ante along the Line of Control (LoC) and the international border in the Jammu sector, and public and media interest in the operations in the Keran sector continues. Despite the Army’s statements and clarifications, there is still some unhappiness at the highest levels. The situation demands greater clarity from those who know the ground and the dynamics and can relate it to the larger issues concerning the position in that State.

Gen. Hasnain then goes about explaining the operations and the the tactics in great details. This should set to rest many doubts and questions raised in our minds.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Oct 2013 09:38

arun wrote: Secret memos reveal explicit nature of U.S., Pakistan agreement on drones

In April this year, NY Times' Mark Mazetti wrote about this secret deal. It said that the drone attack in FATA was a deal between the ISI and the CIA that involved killing the Pakistani Taliban (TTP) leader Nek Mohammed in return for Pakistan allowing drone operations in FATA with some riders, the most important of which were that the drones could not target the Kashmiri terrorist training camps and the drones could not fly near Pakistani nuclear facilities.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 24 Oct 2013 15:14

Obama grills Sharif over Mumbai attack trial, LeT ; suggests Pak exports terror

WASHINGTON : Any residual doubt that Pakistan is a duplicitous terrorist state was set to rest by the time Pakistan Prime MinisterNawaz Sharif met US President Obama in the White House on Wednesday with leaked US intelligence reports that showed Islamabad acquiesced to Predator strikes on some terrorists targets even as the country's intelligence agencies shielded and helped others. The US president also implicitly accused Pakistan of exporting terrorism.

The disclosures relating to drone strikes from 2007 to 2011, when Gen Pervez Musharraf and Asif Ali Zardari were in power, did not stop Sharif from predetermined talking points during his two-hour meeting with the US president that included pleading for a stop to the attacks. "Pakistan and the United States have a strong ongoing counterterrorism cooperation. We have agreed to further strengthen this cooperation. I also brought up the issue of drones in our meeting, emphasizing the need for an end to such strikes,' Sharif said with a straight face, with US president next to him.

Obama, who had already spoken by then, ignored the drone issue altogether, but praised Sharif for his commitment in trying to reduce "incidents of terrorism inside of Pakistan's borders, and the degree to which these activities may be exported to other countries
." Implicit in the remark was that Pakistan is a terrorism-exporting country, and the drone strikes were a legitimate US response in areas where Islamabad has no control and has ceded sovereignty.

The fact that Obama grilled Sharif over Islamabad's dodgy approach to terrorism, particularly in reference to India, was confirmed by the Pakistani prime minister himself. "He (Obama) asked, why the trial of the (Mumbai) terrorist attack in India has not started yet," Sharif told reporters soon after the meeting, adding, "He (Obama) has raised the issue of (Dr Shakil) Afridi. He spoke about cross-border movement. He also talked about Jamaat-ud-Dawa."

In public though, the US president was careful not to embarrass his guest too much. "We talked about security and the concerns that both of us have about senseless violence, terrorism and extremism. And we agreed that we need to continue to find constructive ways to partner together -- ways that respect Pakistan's sovereignty, that respect the concerns of both countries," Obama said in a nuanced explanation that provided the sub-text to the drones strike imbroglio.

The Obama administration was evidently compelled to leak intelligence reports of the back channel agreement on drone strikes with Pakistan after Sharif upped the ante ahead of his meeting with the US president in an address to the US Institute of Peace on Tuesday, saying the attacks infringed on Pakistani sovereignty, it is an irritant in bilateral ties, and he would raise it with Obama. US officials had tried to walk Sharif away from the subject by suggesting that such strikes were inevitable when Islamabad ceded sovereignty to terrorists and was even complicit in their activity, but faced with Sharif's intransigence, partly driven by domestic considerations, the administration leaked a trove of documents to the Washington Post that exposed Pakistan as a dishonest, two-faced country that helped terrorists it considered state assets.

The documents, the Post said, show that not only did US officials share information with Pakistan on drone strikes, but the two sides also clashed on occasions over Pakistani military-intelligence agencies being in cahoots with terrorists. These included time-stamped videos of terrorists dispersing material and themselves soon after being tipped off by an intelligence courier that a drone attack, about which US shared information with Pakistan, was imminent.

In one case, the report says, then US secretary of state Hillary Clinton cited "cell phones and written material from dead bodies that point all fingers" at a militant group based in Pakistan. "The US had intelligence proving ISI was involved with these groups," she is cited as saying. In another case, CIA deputy director Mike Morell is said to indicate that the CIA was prepared to share credit with Pakistanis for a drone strike if the agency could confirm that it had killed Ilyas Kashmiri, an al-Qaida operative suspected of ties to plots against India. The agency would do so "so that the negative views about Pakistan in the US decision and opinion making circles are mitigated."

Overall, the disclosures suggest that the United States is cognizant of Pakistan's sponsorship of terrorism, but instead of punishing the country, it will selectively leak information to walk it back from its self-destructive path. US President Obama's explicit reference to Pakistan exporting terrorism is the closest the US has come to publicly outing it as a terrorist entity.

But there is no indication though that Pakistan, dubbed Denialistan in some quarters, recognizes the gravity of the charges. In his USIP address, Sharif went so far as to assert that "Pakistan is neither source of nor epicenter of terrorism," even though his own political party, the Pakistan Muslim League, has well-chronicled links with terrorist groups such as Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. The government in Punjab led by his brother is reported to make budgetary allocations to the internationally banned terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba aka Jamaat ul-Dawa, even as Washington appropriates US tax-payer dollars as aid to Pakistan.

None of these complications or contradictions is reflected in the 2500-word joint statement issued at the conclusion of the Obama-Sharif meeting. The statement, along with an elaborate fact-sheet, manages the optics of the visit and suggests that all is -- or will be -- hunky-dory between the two sides as the U.S tries to manage the relationship ahead of its 2014 drawdown from Afghanistan.

Cheers

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Oct 2013 16:08

SSridhar wrote:To Strike the Right Balance - Lt. Gen (Retd) Syed Ata Hasnain.

Pakistan has upped the ante along the Line of Control (LoC) and the international border in the Jammu sector, and public and media interest in the operations in the Keran sector continues. Despite the Army’s statements and clarifications, there is still some unhappiness at the highest levels. The situation demands greater clarity from those who know the ground and the dynamics and can relate it to the larger issues concerning the position in that State.
Gen. Hasnain then goes about explaining the operations and the the tactics in great details. This should set to rest many doubts and questions raised in our minds.

OT but I have to say it is an excellent and instructive article. The General himself strikes the balance he is talking about by rebuking the media but in a completely constructive way. Reassuring to see another example of the intellectual and leadership qualities of IA brass.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 24 Oct 2013 16:48

Why Kayani's exit may halt Pak ceasefire violations

Violations from the Pakistani side along the Line of Control have become a common recurrence, and according to sources in the Intelligence Bureau, some peace can be expected only after Pakistan Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani retires next month.

Many believe Kayani will follow the footsteps of Hamid Gul, the former Inter Services Intelligence chief, who still commands a great deal of respect in all quarters of Pakistan including terror groups.

Pakistan does ensure that its former chiefs either in the army or the ISI don the role of a loose cannon post retirement. This is done mainly to avoid heat on the establishment and at the same time ensure that the terror groups are well guided. Kayani, according to sources in the Indian intelligence agencies, is aiming at becoming one of those many loose cannons who would post retirement guide Pakistan’s terror policy.

Indian officials point out that Kayani does not want to settle into a shadow post retirement. He wants to play an active role in the affairs of Pakistan. This he appears to be doing at the behest of the ISI which has ensured him all support post retirement. Kayani is clear that he does not want to go the Musharraf way where a coup was staged to overthrow a democratic set up.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Oct 2013 17:01

KLNMurthy wrote:
SSridhar wrote:To Strike the Right Balance - Lt. Gen (Retd) Syed Ata Hasnain.
OT but I have to say it is an excellent and instructive article. The General himself strikes the balance he is talking about by rebuking the media but in a completely constructive way. Reassuring to see another example of the intellectual and leadership qualities of IA brass.

KLNM, I agree. The comments there reflect the same views.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Oct 2013 17:45

Brad Goodman wrote:Why Kayani's exit may halt Pak ceasefire violations

To me, this article appears too amateurish.

For one, everybody knows about Hamid Gul's associations. He has openly said, "We have to liberate the other nation in Hindustan" and many more nasty things. He has been on the verge of being declared a terrorist by the UNSC's Al Qaeda group. Therefore, what does this 'Kabul darbar' incident of Hamid Gull add to our knowledge or why is that significant ? We not only know about Hamid Gul's association with the jihadists, but in fact, know a lot more about Kayani himself, including his own participation in the 26/11 incidents. This very ordinary article therefore does not bring any earth-shaking analysis or conclusions to the fore.

Also, the reference to 'pleasing the ISI and in turn 'ISI providing all support to Kayani'. Kayani is an ex-ISI Chief and ISI functions under him today as COAS. What is the point being made ? We expect all COASs , ex-DGs ISI, Corps Commanders of the TSPA, Admirals et al to do exactly what Aslam Beg, Hamid Gul, Javid Nasir, Naseem Rana, Adm Karamat Niazi have done. The conclusion that Kayani is ordering the border incidents "at the behest of the ISI" is laughable and is like the tail wagging the dog. The dog itself is already as rabid as it can get.

The whole thrust of the article seems to be as though the Pakistani moves are totally tactical and disappear next month when Kayani goes away from the scene. The analysis does not take into account other factors such as Afghanistan and hence it is very deficient.

I doubt if the Indian intel agencies would have such a myopic reading of the situation as the article makes them out to be.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 24 Oct 2013 17:57

I agree Sridhar ji. Only comment which made bit of sense was

Kayani is clear that he does not want to go the Musharraf way

Perhaps he wants to make sure that he earns few brownie points with greens so that they protect him in case he is pulled into court cases for droneacharya strikes or leasing of airbases or cutlet of sheikh yada yada

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Oct 2013 18:12

rajanb wrote:
While each individual here has a right to post their POV, I would like to point out, as what I see as a disturbing trend:

a) The amount of negativity just because the news, from our side is not published. I wonder how many of the posters were at a mature enough age during the '65 and '71 wars? To understand what was going on compared to what was reported? I used to listen to various news broadcasts over the radio, scan various publications the next day, and always felt proud, that we were a bit understated, whereas Pakistan was mainly propaganda. With friends and relatives in the Indian Armed Forces, it was only after the wars ended did I garner titbits of heart warming information about what we did.

Can you please consider sharing the details in a suitable thread ?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Oct 2013 18:38

PeregrineJi,

That ToIlet reporter is no doubt better than most DDM, but he is prone to exaggeration, more wishful about what should have happened than what actually happened. So I am not sure Obama really grilled Sheriff so much on India specific terror. Somebody please post the Dung and Daan reports of the meeting, which for sure will be at the other extreme, and we can then conclude that what actually transpired was somewhat in the middle.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 24 Oct 2013 18:47

jamwal wrote:
rajanb wrote:
While each individual here has a right to post their POV, I would like to point out, as what I see as a disturbing trend:

a) The amount of negativity just because the news, from our side is not published. I wonder how many of the posters were at a mature enough age during the '65 and '71 wars? To understand what was going on compared to what was reported? I used to listen to various news broadcasts over the radio, scan various publications the next day, and always felt proud, that we were a bit understated, whereas Pakistan was mainly propaganda. With friends and relatives in the Indian Armed Forces, it was only after the wars ended did I garner titbits of heart warming information about what we did.
Can you please consider sharing the details in a suitable thread ?

Sure Jamwal. I could do that. But I would be changing the names of the people involved.

Wii write-up for the relevant military history thread.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Oct 2013 18:52

Exposed! Caught with their pants down.The two fornicating bum-chums,Pak and the US made a slimeball deal on drones,lying to the world ,pretending otherwise.Their duplicity and perfidy is now exposed with the revelations of their sordid fornication.This beggars the Q,what did the US know about 26/11 (from Headley/Gilani) and when did they know of it? The US is aiding and abetting Paki terror and the lascivious and promiscuous nature of the two nations, now stands revealed as if caught in the act in a public toilet,.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 01627.html

Secret memos reveal explicit nature of US-Pakistan agreement on drones
Angry words notwithstanding, Pakistani officials kept in loop on drone strikes

Xcpts: Full report in link

Greg Miller , Bob Woodward
Thursday 24 October 2013

WASHINGTON — Despite repeatedly denouncing the CIA's drone campaign, top officials in Pakistan's government have for years secretly endorsed the program and routinely received classified briefings on strikes and casualty counts, according to top-secret CIA documents and Pakistani diplomatic memos obtained by the Washington Post.

The files describe dozens of drone attacks in Pakistan's tribal region and include maps as well as before-and-after aerial photos of targeted compounds over a four-year stretch from 2008 to 2011 in which the campaign intensified dramatically.

Markings on the documents indicate that many of them were prepared by the CIA's Counterterrorism Center specifically to be shared with Pakistan's government. They tout the success of strikes that killed dozens of alleged al-Qaida operatives and assert repeatedly that no civilians were harmed.

Pakistan's tacit approval of the drone program has been one of the more poorly kept national security secrets in Washington and Islamabad. During the early years of the campaign, the CIA even used Pakistani airstrips for its Predator fleet.

But the files expose the explicit nature of a secret arrangement struck between the two countries at a time when neither was willing to publicly acknowledge the existence of the drone program. The documents detailed at least 65 strikes in Pakistan and were described as "talking points" for CIA briefings, which occurred with such regularity that they became a matter of diplomatic routine. The documents are marked "top secret" but cleared for release to Pakistan.

A spokesman for the Pakistani Embassy in Washington did not respond to a request for comment. A CIA spokesman declined to discuss the documents but did not dispute their authenticity.

The files serve as a detailed timeline of the CIA drone program, tracing its evolution from a campaign aimed at a relatively short list of senior al-Qaida operatives to a broader aerial assault against militant groups with no connection to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The records also expose the distrust and dysfunction that has afflicted U.S.-Pakistani relations even amid their undeclared collaboration on drone strikes.

Some files describe tense meetings in which senior U.S. officials, including then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, confront their Pakistani counterparts with U.S. intelligence purporting to show Pakistan's ties to militant groups involved in attacks on American forces, a charge that Islamabad has consistently denied.

In one case, Clinton cited "cell phones and written material from dead bodies that point all fingers" at a militant group based in Pakistan, according to a diplomatic cable dated Sept. 20, 2011. "The U.S. had intelligence proving ISI was involved with these groups," the cable said, referring to Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency.

In a measure of the antagonism between the two sides, a 2010 memo sent by Pakistan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs to its embassy in Washington outlined a plan to undermine the CIA.

"Kindly find enclosed a list of 36 U.S. citizens who are [believed] to be CIA special agents and would be visiting Pakistan for some special task," said the memo, signed by an official listed as the country's director general for Americas. "Kindly do not repeat not issue visas to the same."

The earliest of the files describes 15 strikes from December 2007 through September 2008. All but two of the entries identify specific al-Qaida figures as targets.

The campaign has since killed as many as 3,000 people, including thousands of militants and hundreds of civilians, according to independent estimates.

There have been 23 strikes in Pakistan this year, far below the peak number of attacks, 117, set in 2010. The latest strike occurred Sept. 29, when three alleged fighters with ties to the militant Haqqani network were killed in North Waziristan, according to news media reports.

Several documents refer to a direct Pakistani role in the selection of targets. A 2010 entry, for example, describes hitting a location "at the request of your government." Another from that same year refers to a "network of locations associated with a joint CIA-ISI targeting effort."

The files also contain fragments of code words — including SYL-MAG, an abbreviation of Sylvan Magnolia — that correspond to covert drone operations. The code word was later changed to Arbor-Hawthorn.

In time, the CIA identified so many suspected al-Qaida and militant compounds that it gave them coded designations, including MSC 215 for a Miran Shah compound where explosives were manufactured and SC 5 for Spailpan Compound Number 5 in South Waziristan.

The strikes generally correspond with public databases assembled by independent groups, indicating that those organizations have reliably tracked drone attacks from media reports, even if the number of civilian casualties has often been a source of dispute.

The documents confirm the deaths of dozens of alleged al-Qaida operatives, including Rashid Rauf, a British citizen killed in 2008 who "helped coordinate al-Qaeda's summer 2007 plot to blow up transatlantic flights originating from Great Britain," one memo said.

But the documents also reveal a major shift in the CIA's strategy in Pakistan as it broadened the campaign beyond "high-value" al-Qaida targets and began firing missiles at gatherings of low-level fighters.

The files trace the CIA's embrace of a controversial practice that came to be known as "signature strikes," approving targets based on patterns of suspicious behavior detected from drone surveillance cameras and ordering strikes even when the identities of those to be killed weren't known.
.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2013 19:02

SSridhar The Kiayni article is in the genre of delusion. It ignores reality and overfeeds on hope. Am sure its the classified waste from unnamed sources.
The basic premis eis Kiyani ss the source of the recent troubles. That is hogwash. Its TSP and its institutions supported by 3.5 friends who are the source of the troubles.
So Kiyani staying or going is not going to eliminate the trouble. It can only be dialed down if at all due to the other 3.5 deciding its not in their insterests. Being a proclaimed "status quo power" Indian elite has taken many options off the table.

Rajanb, Dont mind lekin referring to a poster other than by his handle/signature in not right.

Philip, Why the glee that TSP has been outed for its perfidy by US? What advantage does it give India? Zilch, US will still feed and support the TSP no matter in interests of 'stability" as they just released $1/.6B before Badmash's visit to the US and UPA govt will not protest or even bother to feign annoyance.

So don't fall for the bogus indictment of TSP perfidy.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Oct 2013 19:08

ramana,

And the other delusion that our elite have is that they cannot come down to accept that TSP's 3.5, especially US/UK, do see TSP as a strategic asset against India. I haven't seen anybody worth his salt actually come out and say that. They cling to the notion that US's relationship with TSP is tactical while its relationship with India is strategic. But the reality is that US looks more at balance of power between India and TSP rather than tactical or strategic.

Opinions like that especially by elite on our side only shows to the ISI that their tactics are working and India's fear is clearly evident. So Pak establishment and RAPE will be laughing their asses off knowing that they will face no retaliation as they stick to the current course, and only need to manage the fallout. I still remember the prescience of Jihadi Sethi after 26/11. First he bragged about how 10 TSP bachhae drilled a gaping hole through India's superpowerdom, and then tellingly, he said that TSP needs to manage the fallout as India is bound to make a lot of noises. And thats exactly what we have seen and continue to see. They will attack, deny and say its non-state actors or Kashmiri "freedom fighters", call for peace talks, nuclear flashpoint, "both sides must work to alleviate poverty of the masses", get ivited to DDM jaunts to puke the same; while our side comes up with such useless anal-yses, and piss process and make cowardly "waar chodo" type Bollywood crap movies.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 22:58

Pakistan is not only a terrorist state but also a delusional one. Gillani ka baccha is still Talban"s Mehman and the new revelation about Gillani signing on Drone to make round over Pushtun people can be detrimental to his Journey to Jannat.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1051301/a-conc ... o-pakistan
A concise guide to Pakistan

The male-female ratio of the population is 50-50, even though, according to local tradition in the north, women do not exist. Only men and goats. Certain NGOs operating in the north want to change this perception and the locals have agreed only if the government of Pakistan declared women to be satanic abominations engineered by Hindu Fanatics, Christian Crusaders, Wily Jews and Hamid Karzai.
The culture
The main plank of culture in Pakistan is asking, “what is the culture of Pakistan?” But if you believe in the official history text books taught at local schools, the culture of Pakistan is very Islamic, very pro-army, very anti-India, and had it not been for some malicious Hindu historians distorting history, Pakistanis would have been known for their true cultural and genetic origins: i.e. Arabic!
That’s why most Pakistanis behave as if they all arrived from ancient Arabic kingdoms and had nothing to do with South Asia. They were the true Aryans until the British came and started to build railroads. Of course, this doesn’t make much sense, but who cares; as long as one is an Aryan and is genetically connected to the Arab conqueror Bin Qasim, his favourite cook and Mush Washer How to get to Pakistan
You can reach Pakistan without a visa by either sneaking in from the Afghan border in the north or getting shipwrecked in the south!
How to get out
You don’t! Life ends Here

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 23:00

CRamS wrote:ramana,
And the other delusion that our elite have is that they cannot come down to accept that TSP's 3.5, especially US/UK, do see TSP as a strategic asset against India. I haven't seen anybody worth his salt actually come out and say that. They cling to the notion that US's relationship with TSP is tactical while its relationship with India is strategic. But the reality is that US looks more at balance of power between India and TSP rather than tactical or strategic.

We just need to outgrow all Poaq and their Regular or part time lovers can throw at us.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 24 Oct 2013 23:16

No need for words!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 23:22

Sushupti wrote:No need for words!

Similar Silent Signs

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 25 Oct 2013 00:01

Sushupti wrote:No need for words!

nawaz sharif thinking to himself: BC MC this seems like a rehash of 4th july 1999. back to that plastic village i slum abad, on a wing and a prayer.
wonder if my daughter is still favored by the Saudi royal she is married to. what a pigs life.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 25 Oct 2013 00:27

Badmash and Ombaba meeting in a Nutshell from DailyTimes:

Pakistan, US in a ‘fresh start’

* Nawaz tells Obama to halt drone attacks, play role in resolution of Kashmir issue, extend help on energy crisis, promote investment in Pakistan, release Aafia

* Obama raises issues of punishing Mumbai attackers, release of Shakil Afridi, reining in JuD

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Oct 2013 01:18

The picture shows Badmash crest fallen and Obama has a reassuring pat on his shoulder.

I think Badmash will go back to Saudis soon.

BTW there was an article of how the JuD is the Army for the TSPA! Apparently it now holds parades and displays which were formerly the domain of the TSPA. Latter is not holding displays in case TTP attacks them.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Oct 2013 04:20

Indira ordered gold hunt and Pak sought share- ToI
Like ZAB claiming Kohinoor as Mughal legatee.

The last time an Indian government, led by the redoubtable Indira Gandhi, went looking for hidden gold among private property, Pakistan also jumped on to the bandwagon.

In 1976, at the height of the Emergency, Indira ordered the Indian Army to march off to look for hidden treasure in Jaigarh fort, which was still a property of the Jaipur royal family. Legend had it that Man Singh had stashed away huge amounts of treasure from some of his campaigns. That legend persisted after India's independence. With Gayatri Devi imprisoned during Emergency, Indira thought it fit to search Jaipur royal properties for the treasure.

The correspondence finds space in an invaluable work of history, India-Pakistan Relations (1947-2007), edited by Avtar Singh Bhasin, released earlier this year and is mandatory reading for any student of history.

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, then prime minister of Pakistan, heard about the treasure hunt and decided Pakistan should not be denied its share. In a letter to Indira on August 11, 1976, Bhutto said, "As your expedition of locating the treasure proceeds, I would urge you to remain cognizant of Pakistan's claim to its due share of this wealth. This is an asset which was not known at the time of partition between the two successor states (then called dominions) of India and Pakistan.

"However, the order that was enforced with the agreement of both governments did not fail to provide that any property or benefits can be shared between them where such sharing is just and equitable. The historical provenance of this treasure, regardless of the location of its physical discovery, makes it the joint patrimony of our two countries and I am confident that, with an approach based on equity, we will dis-countenance any usurpation and amicably arrive at a formula for the division between us."

Indira did not dignify Bhutto's claim with a response until December of that year. By then, the Army division sent to unearth the treasure returned empty-handed after three months of fruitless search. Responding to Bhutto on December 31, 1976, Indira said, "I had asked our legal experts to give careful consideration to the claim you made on behalf of Pakistan. They are of the clear opinion that the claim has no legal basis. Incidentally, the treasure has turned out to be non-existent."

Bhutto complimented Indira on abolishing the old royalty, saying, "Both our countries have taken the same view of the rights of the princely order and, with complete justification, abolished it as an appendage or association of the colonial regime. I am certain that no one can maintain the argument that your government's action involves confiscation of the private property of any individual or dynasty."

The Pakistani PM justified asking for a share of the riches. "It is clear that the treasure is a historical inheritance of the subcontinent which was bequeathed to it by its pre-colonial sovereignties, especially the Mughal emperors in coalition with their Rajput allies. That, before or during the anarchy which ravaged the subcontinent and invited foreign domination, these assets were misappropriated and hoarded by a particular warlord has no bearing whatsoever on their legal or moral ownership." Indira, however, would have none of it.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 25 Oct 2013 05:13

Jhujar wrote:
CRamS wrote:ramana,
And the other delusion that our elite have is that they cannot come down to accept that TSP's 3.5, especially US/UK, do see TSP as a strategic asset against India. I haven't seen anybody worth his salt actually come out and say that. They cling to the notion that US's relationship with TSP is tactical while its relationship with India is strategic. But the reality is that US looks more at balance of power between India and TSP rather than tactical or strategic.
We just need to outgrow all Poaq and their Regular or part time lovers can throw at us.

+1

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 25 Oct 2013 10:48

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kaya ... 20093.html

Pakistan army chief Gen Kayani is making a push to assume charge of Kashmir and Afghanistan affairs

Recent intelligence reports about the future role of soon to retire Pakistan army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani have not been music to the ears of South Block mandarins. According to the intelligence reports, Kayani is making a push to assume the charge of Kashmir and Afghanistan affairs as part of a re- jig of Pakistan's national security establishment.

Official sources told Mail Today that they are getting signs of an internal battle brewing between the political leadership led by Pakistan premier Nawaz Sharif and the military establishment backed Kayani, who wants to control the Kashmir button and, significantly, assume the charge of Afghanistan operations after his term ends on November 29.

Not sure if this report is reliable. Paki COAS have outsized egos and cannot stand the previous COAS meddling with them. This happened with Kayani and Mushy. Kayani's successor wont tolerate previous COAS assuming responsibility for something as critical as JK and Afghanistan.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 25 Oct 2013 12:05

Paki's invent a new kind of Smartphone:

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 25 Oct 2013 14:29

Deleted

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Oct 2013 15:43

Agnimitra wrote:The Muslim Conquest of India: From Will Durant’s Classic 11-Volume ‘Story of Civilization

"Be assured, then, that the Hindus will never become submissive and obedient till they are reduced to poverty"

Mauled, mutilated, humiliated and marauded over centuries by foreigners because of internal divisions. And, here we are in this supposed 21st century of enlightenment, having learnt nothing from history and still bickering among our own over inane issues. Yet the learned ones stay silent (and "numbly" humble).

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Oct 2013 15:52

SSridhar wrote:Indira ordered gold hunt and Pak sought share- ToI

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto...said, "As your expedition of locating the treasure proceeds, I would urge you to remain cognizant of Pakistan's claim to its due share of this wealth. This is an asset which was not known at the time of partition between the two successor states (then called dominions) of India and Pakistan.

So was Sui gas. India should lay claim to that.

Gas field was discovered in the late 1952

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 25 Oct 2013 15:59

CRamS wrote:PeregrineJi,

That ToIlet reporter is no doubt better than most DDM, but he is prone to exaggeration, more wishful about what should have happened than what actually happened. So I am not sure Obama really grilled Sheriff so much on India specific terror. Somebody please post the Dung and Daan reports of the meeting, which for sure will be at the other extreme, and we can then conclude that what actually transpired was somewhat in the middle.

CRamS Ji :

Despair and Hope

Mr Obama wants concrete punitive action against the Lashkar-e-Tayba and Jamaat-ul-Dawa for sponsoring the 2008 terrorist attack on Mumbai. But Mr Sharif doesn’t have the will or ability to deliver on this front.

Mr Sharif wants America to nudge India to help resolve Kashmir and other disputes with Pakistan. But Mr Obama is steering clear of any third-party mediation.

Mr Sharif wants America to acknowledge and promote Pakistan’s key role and interest in a “stable, peaceful and united Afghanistan” after the bulk of US forces withdraw from the country next year. But Mr Obama has strongly signaled US interest in helping India, and not Pakistan, play such a role.

But both retain a mutual interest in a working relationship. The US has a short-term interest in, and a long-term concern about, Pakistan. In the short term it wants Pakistan’s cooperation in withdrawing from Afghanistan in an orderly manner. This encompasses two dimensions: securing NATO weapons via the overland Pakistan route; and helping America get a degree of cooperation from the Taliban in ending civil war in post-America Afghanistan. In the longer term, the US is concerned about the spread of terrorism and extremism in the Af-Pak region that could endanger Pakistan’s nukes and India’s security.

Cheers

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 25 Oct 2013 16:30

"Be assured, then, that the Hindus will never become submissive and obedient till they are reduced to poverty"

"Inclusive Hindu rate of growth"?