Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

[KLNMurthy]

India has had buffoons for leaders. ... We should have finished them off in 1971 if not before.

Please enlighten us how the 'buffoon' Indira Gandhi could have continued the war in 1971, against the wishes of BOTH superpowers and the entire UN.

Indira Gandhi's most inexplicable action was failing to put the paki army officers on trial for genocide. I don't know whether that would be called buffoonish or not, but it has harmed India irrevocably.

[ramana]

She didn't want permanent rancor for the end goal is to eventually de-Partition.

[Gerard]

TRIPARTITE AGREEMENT BETWEEN INDIA, BANGLADESH AND PAKISTAN FOR NORMALISATION OF RELATIONS IN THE SUB-CONTINENT, 1974
...
13. The question of 195 Pakistani prisoners of war was discussed by the three Ministers, in the context of the earnest desire of the Governments for reconciliation, peace and friendship in the sub-continent. The Foreign Minister of Bangladesh stated that the excesses and manifold crimes committed by these prisoners of war constituted according to the relevant provisions of the U.N General Assembly Resolutions and International Law, war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, and that there was universal consensus that persons charged with such crimes as the 195 Pakistani prisoners of war should be held to account and subjected to the dues process of Law. The Minister of State for Defense and Foreign Affairs of the Government of Pakistan said that his Government condemned and deeply regretted any crimes that may have been committed.

14. In this connection the three Ministers noted that the matter should be viewed in the context of the determination of the three countries to continue resolutely to work for reconciliation. The Minister further noted that following recognition, the Prime Minister of Pakistan declared that he would visit Bangladesh in response to the invitation of the Prime Minister of Bangladesh and appeal to the people of Bangladesh, to forgive and forget the mistakes of the past. Similarly, the Prime Minister of Bangladesh had declared with regard to the atrocities and destruction committed in Bangladesh in 1971 that he wanted the people to forget the past and to make a fresh start,stating that the people of Bangladesh knew how to forgive.

15. In the light of the foregoing and, in particular, having regard to the appeal of the Prime Minister of Pakistan to the people of Bangladesh to forgive and forget the mistakes of the past, the Foreign Minister of Bangladesh stated that the Government of Bangladesh has decided not to proceed with the trials as an act of clemency. It was agreed that the 195 prisoners of war may be repatriated to Pakistan along with the other prisoners of war now in process of repatriation under the Delhi Agreement.

...
Signed in New Delhi on April 9, 1974 in three original, each of which is equally authentic.

Sd/-
Dr.Kamal Hossain, Foreign Minster of the Government of Bangladesh,

Sd/-
Sardar Swaran Singh, Minister of External Affairs, Government of India

Sd/-
Mr.Aziz Ahmed, the Minister of State for Defense and Foreign Affairs of the Government of Pakistan

[Karna_A]

India's approach is very staggered and rudderless. The action is in spurts. We always seem to react rather than seize the initiative. Over the last year or two, we have seen India's reaction and at every step we tend to rationalize and see if there is any chanakiyan move in it. Frankly, i do not see anything chanakiyan. We seem to be lost as what needs to be done. It appears we are so scared to assert ourselves with the US. We are not successful in making the US see our point. Basically we are not able use our leverage against Pakistan.

For this we need a stronger leader. After PVNR, we are yet to see one and in our immediate future crop their is none.

The present policy is not as rudderless as you may think.
India is focussing on "Hold in the West and defeat in the East paradigm" which means taking out terror fangs from India, Nepal, BD, before taking on the TSP. This policy is akin to instead of fighting an alligator directly, just drain the pond where alligator survives. And looking at results specailly in India and Nepal, it has had good success in last few years.
TSP will sooner or later be done by their own follies unless they realize pretty soon, and AFG and Iran will eventually take their fair share from TSP pie.

[abhishek_sharma]

The present policy is not as rudderless as you may think.
India is focussing on "Hold in the West and defeat in the East paradigm" which means taking out terror fangs from India, Nepal, BD, before taking on the TSP.

What makes you think so? Any evidence?

[CRamS]

chandrabhan, relax. No one is asking you what to discuss and what not. All he asked was for you to keep your language civil and I agree with him. You are free to criticize GoI here but lets keep the language good.
PS: looking at your record, I have warned you in the past (Oct. 2009) for one such offense. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 21#p754721
I will note this in the record but I am not giving a formal warning. In the future, it is up to you...

I want to make no comment on that incident as I had said nothing offensive. Somebody got hurt hurt because i asked jack trout to focus on his lecture rather than lecture India on Kashmir. Anyway I rarely write here now days. The forum is becoming too intolerant and hyper sensitive. After all Chicken is the state bird of punjab. They call it 'Kukkad' back there

I am angry too, as much as you are, but whats the point of impotent anger? There seems to be virtually no opposition, nada, zilch to MMS's decision to resume making love to TSP even as not a day goes by without TSP spewing venom and hatred towards India, let along bringing to book the perpetrators of Mumbai or show any remorse. India has media, who instead of asking tough questions of MMS, instead is cheer leading the surrender effort. And as we speak, millions and millions of Indians are lining up in droves so see "man name is Khan", that has nothing to do with them; its more about the treatment meted out to TSPians in US post 9/11 and deservedly so. As Shiv pointed out, natioanlists, even benign ones like me, who are not adovcating war or anything with TSP, just wanting to ignore the scum; are an endangered species . The only opposition to MMS is coming from Shiv Sena, and you know how much nationalist credibility they have by going after defenseless Biharis and other North Indians in Mumbai.

[Karna_A]

I can not but wonder on the Phenomenon called MMS. He is a typical manifestation of what mango Indian likes or likes to see, reason? He has no great research to his credit, No great economic theory, all his life he has served the institutions either aligned to west or serving western intrests.

Even more perplexing is the role 'Rajmata' is playing. Who is actually making these decisions? I can understand that lot of these moves are being guided by Khanate in the backdrop. I could have never imagined that MMS could turn out to be such a chicken and paki lover. My bad, I forgot he was born there.

This whole policy of serving up a human to Bakasur, in this case common SDRE injuns, is baffling. Even more baffling is this social phenomenon of normal middle class, born and bred bureaucrat completely forgetting their roots, the pains and agony that this middle class Injun goes through. How he has suffered under the onslaught of Paki terrorism, overlooked by West , in fact armed by America. These same middle class boys can not see the death of more than 70000 fellow Indians in this terrorism and continue to suck up to America.
MMS is one such phenomenon. Gentleman has phenomenal PR( I guess ably managed by Western Media too - great economist and thinker), with no achievement whatsoever. Even more perplexing is the mood of Cabinet. Who is doing what? Who is pro talk and Who is Anti?
Adding insult to injury is the statement by Shri Idiot Antony, " Suspending talks is no option in case of terror strikes.... ". This whole 'Aman ka tamasha' Sh** being served in my opinion is out of the pocket of taxpayer to create a 'mahoul' for him to take some more hits.
The Next Holocaust my fellow countrymen is going to happen in India. Now I understand why PR as an Industry is thriving. This whole opinion moulding is being done in way that common men is led to believe that he is making the decision and Government is expressing his will.

I am really wondering, Is democracy and secooolarism(western meaning) the real answer to the rise of indic thought. why not have a debate on this ?

Let me tell you that GOI is failing miserably here or am I a lone wolf baying at the moon

Till India has people as below, there is no point in blaming just MMS.
In fact MMS has done quite well in his previous Avatar as FM under PVNR.
Economy has to be a big priority as it was not too long ago that India begged for a $200 million loan from Iran and TSP had better foreign exchange reserves per its requirement than India.

“We want our relatives back. What difference does it make to us what you have to give the hijackers?” a man shouted. “We don’t care if you have to give away Kashmir,” a woman screamed and others took up the refrain, chanting: “Kashmir de do, kuchh bhi de do, hamare logon ko ghar wapas lao.” Another woman sobbed, “Mera beta… hai mera beta…” and made a great show of fainting of grief.

[brihaspati]

It is quite interesting to see how this thread is an endless recycling of unreasoned and unsubstantiated hope. I think we repeatedly come over the same endless cycle of arguments on essentially two opposing positions.

Position A. Hope raised to the status of a fundamentalist religion. This is blind belief in the automatic "implosion" of the entity called TSP. This is profound hope in the sincerity, capability, intent, vision, statesmanship, clarity and courage in whoever gets elected (or selected by the elected) to the leadership of India to "defeat TSP". Hope that even if TSP overruns the whole of India, it will never be able to completely digest or destroy non-Muslim elements of Indian civilization. Hope that everything that is happening and will happen, has a purpose and well laid out plan by some benevolent entity - intent on the "good of Indian people". This is how religious fundamentalism invented a divine purpose that had "infinite love and wisdom" while you were being actually skinned alive and salted, or roasted, or raped, your family destroyed, your lands taken away, your animals slaughtered - that all that suffering had a higher purpose, carefully planned and acted in sincerety by someone who really loved you. This served everyone's purpose other than the victim's. This is a wonderful way of sapping will to resist, and hedging against the victory of future "invader" - for even that could be then justified as that of a higher purpose for your own good.

Position B. Impotent frustration lowered to the level of manic depression. This is extreme agony at the possibility of destruction, bloodshed, and trauma. A position that appears to equate physical suffering and liquidation as an ultimate cataclysm. This is the position that thinks TSP is going to manage to smash into India by hook or crook or stupidity of Indian leadership and the resulting mayhem is something that is to be avoided at all costs. Or the resulting mayhem is something from which non-Islamic elements of Indian civilization will never recover.

Both, ironically perhaps are driven by one single motivation : avoidance of "pain" inflicted by TSP or "possible pain" in preventing TSP from inflicting "pain" on India (what if the vicious animal bites when you try to kill it after it has already taken one of your fingers off on a previous occasion! ) - at any cost. Crucially, perhaps TSP elite understands this very well.

The successes of TSP against India - by living off the produce of the world using ability to create "terror" - depends on this consistent "avoidance of pain" factor in Indian thinking. Pakistan is bluffing all the way. It bluffs because it can create the impression that it is going to cause "infinite pain" on India. Moreover it knows that such an impression will be believed in by those who matter in India.

If one fine morning India decided to drop that "avoidance of pain" as an unstated universal principle of foreign policy (perhaps requires the paranoid disconnect from so called "rational pragmatism" as in Indira-ji) - TSP will be dead. I think it is time to say to Pakis that, if they really want to do their worst and extract their maximum, they should do it as quickly as possible. The longer they wait, the chance increases that many Indians independently begin to arrive at the same conclusion as I have suggested above. Let Pakjabis and assorted Jihadists of various colours bring out their best. Either way, the way is cleared.

[Chinmayanand]

this thread is an endless recycling of unreasoned and unsubstantiated hope.

You summed it up rightly. There are Enlightened souls here who never fail to see the Chanakian move by GoI in all the goof-ups.

[Bhaskar]

I can't believe people are criticizing Indira Gandhi here. She was the best prime minister India ever had. I can't stand when people criticize her or Atal Bihari Vajpayee. If you have to crticize them, please don't do it here.

[brihaspati]

^^^"Hope" that you did not mean my remark about Indira-ji. It was meant as an icon worth copying again - someone who is not that slavishly committed to be "pragmatic" would not be so much held down by fear of pain and cries of "peace", and do the needful.

[KLNMurthy]

She didn't want permanent rancor for the end goal is to eventually de-Partition.

how do we know / infer that de-partition is the end-goal, since it is certainly not stated?

[Anujan]

Very long blog post. The blog has mysteriously become password protected, so I am posting a google cache link here:

Too many gems to quote, but please read it. Shows how our neighbors function. A snippet to capture your interest

“We are calling from the intelligence [of course, he mentioned the agency. I am going to give you ample time to speculate] we have heard you are going to India.”
“Yes, that is right,” he replied, “who told you?”
He laughed and said, “your passport is lying before us”
“My passport?” I was about to shriek with surprise.
“Yes your passport,” he interjected.
“But I sent my passport to the Indian High Commission via courier ( I am not mentioning the name of the courier. You could guess it yourselfs. It is the most popular one in Pakistan). How come it landed in your hands?” I said too many things in a single breath.
He laughed and said in a Punjabi accent English, “ O Sirrr Jeee.Everything comes to us. You don’t worry about it.”
For a minute, I went mad at the courier service’s professional dishonesty. How could they take my passport to someone else? Who would take responsibility for tomorrow my passport is put into another Ajmal Kasab’s pocket and I am declared as a terrorist? Thus, I would advise you all not to trust these courier services (at least in Pakistan) when applying for a visa. They will take your passport to different people and the status of your shipment will always state ‘pending’.

[KLNMurthy]

TRIPARTITE AGREEMENT BETWEEN INDIA, BANGLADESH AND PAKISTAN FOR NORMALISATION OF RELATIONS IN THE SUB-CONTINENT, 1974
...
13. The question of 195 Pakistani prisoners of war was discussed by the three Ministers, in the context of the earnest desire of the Governments for reconciliation, peace and friendship in the sub-continent. The Foreign Minister of Bangladesh stated that the excesses and manifold crimes committed by these prisoners of war constituted according to the relevant provisions of the U.N General Assembly Resolutions and International Law, war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, and that there was universal consensus that persons charged with such crimes as the 195 Pakistani prisoners of war should be held to account and subjected to the dues process of Law. The Minister of State for Defense and Foreign Affairs of the Government of Pakistan said that his Government condemned and deeply regretted any crimes that may have been committed.

14. In this connection the three Ministers noted that the matter should be viewed in the context of the determination of the three countries to continue resolutely to work for reconciliation. The Minister further noted that following recognition, the Prime Minister of Pakistan declared that he would visit Bangladesh in response to the invitation of the Prime Minister of Bangladesh and appeal to the people of Bangladesh, to forgive and forget the mistakes of the past. Similarly, the Prime Minister of Bangladesh had declared with regard to the atrocities and destruction committed in Bangladesh in 1971 that he wanted the people to forget the past and to make a fresh start,stating that the people of Bangladesh knew how to forgive.

15. In the light of the foregoing and, in particular, having regard to the appeal of the Prime Minister of Pakistan to the people of Bangladesh to forgive and forget the mistakes of the past, the Foreign Minister of Bangladesh stated that the Government of Bangladesh has decided not to proceed with the trials as an act of clemency. It was agreed that the 195 prisoners of war may be repatriated to Pakistan along with the other prisoners of war now in process of repatriation under the Delhi Agreement.

...
Signed in New Delhi on April 9, 1974 in three original, each of which is equally authentic.

Sd/-
Dr.Kamal Hossain, Foreign Minster of the Government of Bangladesh,

Sd/-
Sardar Swaran Singh, Minister of External Affairs, Government of India

Sd/-
Mr.Aziz Ahmed, the Minister of State for Defense and Foreign Affairs of the Government of Pakistan

thanks for posting the excerpt. It was an extremely misguided decision. There should have been no reconciliation with genocide.

[SwamyG]

I can't believe people are criticizing Indira Gandhi here. She was the best prime minister India ever had. I can't stand when people criticize her or Atal Bihari Vajpayee. If you have to crticize them, please don't do it here.

Nobody is above criticisms. Your words are like a teenager's words.

[KLNMurthy]

I can't believe people are criticizing Indira Gandhi here. She was the best prime minister India ever had. I can't stand when people criticize her or Atal Bihari Vajpayee. If you have to crticize them, please don't do it here.

Wait a minute. Abuse is not acceptable, I get it, but have we sunk so low that we think some politicians are above criticism?

[SureshP]

Conquest the Kangress way

Businessmen call for expanding trade with India

The popularity of these goods is so much so that even if local Pakistani companies start manufacturing the same, people would still ask for the original Indian product, Mansoor told The News. “Although the Bio Amla Hair Oil, which is the same as the Dabur Amla Hair Oil of Indian origin, and made with the same formula as of Dabur’s, people still decline the local oil in favour of the Indian one,” he said. Similarly, even if Fair & Lovely introduced the same formula of Ayurvedic cream followed in India, customers would still prefer the Indian product.

“This demand comes in the market as soon as a commercial is shown on Indian television channels, and we get demand requests within an hour,” Amjad Mansoor said. However, any new Indian product in demand over here takes about a month to reach the Pakistani markets, said he. “Since these products are not registered in the import lists, it is obvious they reach through illegal means.”

Speaking about the immensity of the Indian products in Pakistani markets, he said that only cosmetic products imported from the neighbour make a list of a minimum 225 items, including shampoos, deodorants, sprays, masks, creams, oils, gels and products by other famous brands as Himalayas, etc. Besides these, there are health drinks like Bournvita, Complan, toiletries by Paras, medicines and pain relievers, eg, by Himani, and many other products. Quite a few of these items have little or no production in Pakistan.
.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=223889

[pgbhat]

Division of water ---- DT Edit

Even since the Water Apportionment Accord was signed in 1991 with the consensus of all the four provinces for an equitable division of water of the Indus River System between the federating units, rifts between the upper and lower riparian have never been far from the surface, because the Accord has never been implemented in letter and spirit. Unfortunately, on a number of occasions, Punjab has used its influence with the Centre, which is also represented on the Indus River System Authority (IRSA), a body that is charged with the implementation of the Accord, to get an extra share of water, over and above that originally envisaged in the division formula. This track record of violations of the 1991 Accord is at the root of the resentments, suspicion and mistrust between the provinces on this issue. These resentments were at their peak in the latest meeting of the advisory committee of IRSA, in which Punjab walked out in protest because the smaller provinces had opposed its demand for the opening of the Chashma-Jehlum and Taunsa-Punjnad Link Canals tooth and nail, contending that Punjab had already exhausted its share as per the formula given in the 1991 Accord.

The situation has been aggravated by the construction by India of dams and barrages on the Jehlum and Chenab Rivers, which originate from Indian-held Kashmir and on whose waters Pakistan has exclusive right under the 1960 Indus Water Treaty. Voices have been raised at different forums, including experts, that water flows in Pakistan have been affected due to the Indian activity. Moreover, water scarcity has increased with the rise in population. Regrettably, there has been no simultaneous development of strategy for the conservation and management of available water resources. The traditional flood irrigation method used in our agricultural system entails huge water losses. It could be gradually replaced by drip irrigation and other methods successfully implemented in desert regions around the world.

The current situation demands not only the implementation of the 1991 Accord in letter and spirit and an understanding with India for uninterrupted supply of water in the Jehlum and Chenab as per the Indus Water Treaty, but also better water management and conservation.

[pgbhat]

Zaid Hamid and strategic depth ---- Farhat Taj
Auntie-ji seems to have had first hand experience of Pakjabiness to write up this article.

FATA continues to be used and abused as a strategic space by the security establishment of Pakistan in violent pursuit of strategic depth in Afghanistan. In short, strategic depth means Pakistan must have a pro-Pakistan government in Afghanistan by any and all means. People of FATA have suffered more than people in any other part of Pakistan due to this policy. They dread and hate ‘strategic depth’.

Some people of FATA drew my attention towards Zaid Hamid, who, they said, is a new charm offensive of the military establishment to popularise the notion of strategic depth among the youth from affluent families in the big cities of Pakistan. He is frequently given air time by the electronic media, also an evidence that the media, especially the Urdu media, is not free and has to toe the establishment’s line in security matters. Show biz celebrities have joined him. Those who oppose the strategic depth, especially the Pakhtun, who are the biggest casualty of it, are never given so much media attention.

The main concern of the people of FATA vis-a-vis Zaid Hamid is his use of a particularly narrow interpretation of Islam that proposes a belligerent agenda for the Pakistan Army and drawing on controversial Islamic literature. Thus the authenticity of the hadiths — sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) — on Ghazwa-e-Hind that he often refers to in terms of the ultimate defeat of the Indians at the hands of the Pakistan Army is highly questionable.

A writer on one of the mailing lists argues that Zaid Hamid is a Pied Piper for our youth from the prosperous sections of Punjab who have no dreams to be proud of. Zaid Hamid sells the dreams of conquering the world, though they are nonsense, yet still work for the youth who are now caught up in an identity crisis, continues the writer. The writer understands that the fault lies with the leftist intellectuals who have lost direction by joining NGOs and leaving the anti-imperialist struggle open for people like Zaid Hamid or Imran Khan.

What is even more dangerous is the fact that Zaid Hamid is glorifying the same Taliban that the people of FATA hold responsible for their massacre at the behest of the military establishment of Pakistan. Case in point, Jalaluddin Haqqani who occupies North Waziristan. I would invite the young fans of Zaid Hamid to take a tour of FATA, or at least FATA IDP camps in various parts of the NWFP, to observe firsthand what the Taliban and the military did to these people. I would remind the youth that people all over FATA hold the generals of the Pakistan Army more than the Taliban responsible for the death and destruction in their area. They view the Taliban — all Taliban, good, bad, Afghan or Pakistani — as a creation of the intelligence agencies of our country. How much more do the people of FATA need to sacrifice for strategic depth in Afghanistan? The never-ending human sufferings in the area could transform into widespread anti-state sentiments. The youth around Zaid Hamid must know that the current pursuit of strategic depth may turn into — as rightly described in this paper’s editorial ‘Strategic death’? (Daily Times, February 3, 2010) –’strategic death’ for Pakistan rather than securing a friendly Afghanistan.

[Suppiah]

Conquest the Kangress way


http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=223889

“Pakistanis trust in Indian products can be gauged from the fact that people have now started asking for Godrej locks too instead of the Chinese ones as they say they are more reliable,” he added.

taller than mountain friend but not to be trusted with locks

[lakshmikanth]

Division of water ---- DT Edit

What does this round of rabble-rousing mean in terms of droughts and in the context of upcoming Indo-TSP talks?

In a status-quo, when the next drought comes along, TSP will start saber rattling on how Indians are responsible for genocide and increase terror activities inside India. The excuse then would be that its Jihad against Indian agression over water resources. So it would give TSP another reason to kill and maim the Indan aam-admi.

Considering this situation and from a historical perspective of how MMS leadership has behaved, I think the GOI will concede joint monitoring of river resources in Kashmir and Punjab in this round of chai biskoot, i.e. TSP will have a larger say than what it has over what India can and cannot do with the water. That would be the "chanakian"/"MMSian" thing to do

[Gerard]

MMS has been PM for how long? In that time, what water concession has he offered to TSP? Has one project been stopped? Have the pakis been given anything outside what the IWT says?

[pgbhat]

The patronage networks ---- Ayesha Siddiqa
Coming full circle ---- Cyril Almeida

[A_Gupta]

In a recent Capital Talk we were told that India has made of the Sutlej a "rett ki darya" (a river of sand).

We were also told that Sindh has a 50-something percent shortfall in its water received. We were also told that in the lower Punjab all but one canal is dry, and that in the upper Punjab [still in Pakistan] all but one canal has full water. Only one participant in the discussion [another ANP guy] was willing to say that the huge increase in population has increased the demand for water. Afghanistan is also building a dam on the Kabul river or one of its tributaries and Pakistan is feeling the pain of being a lower riparian there too.

India - whether guilty or not - will be blamed as a way of moderating the tensions in Pakistan between the provinces and even within the provinces about the dwindling per-capita water supply.

[Gerard]

Pakistan concerned over dam on Kabul River

Pakistan voiced its concerns on the dam being built on River Kabul with India’s assistance and suggested a profound engagement between Pakistan and Afghanistan to address these concerns.

[Satya_anveshi]

Talking of water issues, here is a recent interview of Shamsul Mulk (Ex-Chairman WAPDA) by Iftikhar Ahmed on Jawab Deyh ( caution: it's a video from a link that may not be clean...this site seems to have been [email protected] it at your risk or find this interview on Utube)

Shamsul Mulk seems to have a balanced view of his country's problems and lays blame to their internal planning particularly the decisions around Kalabagh dam that was stalled/skuttled during planning. You may notice that Iftikhar tries to stear the discussion towards something but it doesn't lead there.

[lakshmikanth]

MMS has been PM for how long? In that time, what water concession has he offered to TSP? Has one project been stopped? Have the pakis been given anything outside what the IWT says?

Gerard saar,

I am asking Hajjjar Maphi for the things I said about MMS conceding. What I meant was, given that the more Pakis do the more MMS seems to cave in. Now water issues are being brought into the forefront as an excuse to attack India. Given that MMS has conceded so much (SeS, talks etc) I am sure this wont be an exception to the rule.

I am worried on how much would be conceded on this rounds of talks with TSP before the next major terror attacks. Thats why I was doing

[CRamS]

MMS has been PM for how long? In that time, what water concession has he offered to TSP? Has one project been stopped? Have the pakis been given anything outside what the IWT says?

The outcome of the dialouge depends on the ground situation. MMS has agreed to talk despite no change in TSP's LeT stratgey. And why does TSP have the LeT strategy? To extract concessions from India on Kashmir. So the ground situation is, you (India) deliver on Kashmir, and we (TSP) deliver on LeT (at least temporarily until we (TSP) run ourselves into another tizzy and some other "core issue" crops up). And if the reports on MMS-Mush love fest are to be believd, MMS wants to make joint love with TSP in Srinagar. Is that acceptable? And MMS has time and again said that "borders (meaning LoC) are to remain irrelevant". Now what does that mean? You guessed it, joint love making. Now, given that an Indian dare not set foot in PoK, it means only love making in Srinagar. Now given that Kashmiri Muslims, to the average Abdul on the street hate India's guts, what does this amount to? Love making between Kashmiri Muslims and TSP and India can only get to watch. And as the intense love making between Kashmiri Muslims and TSP continues unabated, what this amount to? Srinagar falling into TSP's grasp in slow motion? Oh, and did I forget, meanwhile India becomes global superpower and MMS walks hand in hand with Kiyani (or Mush or Gilani) down the red carpet in Oslo with running commentary by Bakara and Rajdeep with special guests Uneven Cohen and Christin Fair (who recommends nuke deal for TSP) and other assorted "South Asia experts". Jai Hind. Mera Bharat Mahan.

[abhishek_sharma]

http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/12/stories ... 371000.htm

“The paradox,” writes Mr. Menon in a forthcoming article for the Harvard International Review, “is that while there is no alternative to dialogue, it is and cannot be the entire answer to India’s dilemma.”

So what is the entire answer? We do not know what these guys (i.e. PM and NSA) are thinking.

[archan]

I can't believe people are criticizing Indira Gandhi here. She was the best prime minister India ever had. I can't stand when people criticize her or Atal Bihari Vajpayee. If you have to crticize them, please don't do it here.

Wait a minute. Abuse is not acceptable, I get it, but have we sunk so low that we think some politicians are above criticism?

No they are not. Bhaskar, please don't try this again. Thanks.

[Pranav]

She didn't want permanent rancor for the end goal is to eventually de-Partition.

If the goal was to de-partition with cooperation of Paqui elites then that was a foolish expectation.

If the goal was to encourage the natural breakdown of Paqistan, then it would have been far better to expose the genocidal crimes via Nuremberg-style trials.

[CRamS]

So what is the entire answer? We do not know what these guys (i.e. PM and NSA) are thinking.

The most benign interpretation of this would be that he is appealing to USA to stop pampering TSP.

[archan]

Very long blog post.

Good one Anujan miyan. Thanks for sharing. A quote:

By virtue of Google Alerts, I receive the link to a story published in an online Pakistan mail called Daily Mail that said “Raw organizes seminar with aim to target Balochistan”. I smiled and opened the link. The report had been filed what appeared to be a fake name called Christina Palmer. I knew that is how coward men in Pakistan behave i.e use female names to say things that they can not say with their real names.

[a_kumar]

Saw "Men's Downhill" on a program description on TV and burst out laughing in front of shocked friends.

I almost forgot that the term popularly associated with our pious brothers is actually a real sport. Insult to the sport that is Downhill skiing .

Enjoy Winter Olympics!!

[Akshut]

It was fun going through TSP thread until 15-20 days back. Now it's all ...

As its clear now that GoI is going for the talks, no matter what, IMO it should ask to lift import duties on Indian products. Even if paki products are not levied duties upon, no-one is going to buy them here. Whereas it's totally opposite in the case of TSP, as evident from the above article. If there is going to be a sell-out, let it be at some price. All that pakjabi pride will be flushed out with Indian masaalaas. There is no other option "without balls" to dent TFTA's "pride". Leave them with a fight who wants to use Indian products, and those whose arses are tighter than anything.

[Fidel Guevara]

I can't believe people are criticizing Indira Gandhi here. She was the best prime minister India ever had. I can't stand when people criticize her or Atal Bihari Vajpayee. If you have to crticize them, please don't do it here.

So you are the censor here? Not a believer in Voltaire's words of wisdom?

Voltaire : "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

[abhishek_sharma]

Kashmir issue resolution vital for peace in region: Nawaz

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=98569

MUZAFFARABAD: Pakistan Muslim League (PML-N) Chief Mian Nawaz Sharif said the resolution of Kashmir issue is indispensable for the peace in the region, Geo News reported Saturday.

...


Azad Kashmir government is in severe financial straits, the PML-N chief said the aid should be funneled to reconstruct Muzaffarabad-Sri Nagar Road, devastated by the rupture in Zilzal Lake embankment.

...

Responding a query, Nawaz said the peace in the region is hinged on the resolution of Kashmir issue.

[anupmisra]

On a more serious note, please remember that Love is in the air

Peshawar romantics defy Taliban for Valentine’s

Hip young romantics in Pakistan's most dangerous city are splashing out on text messages and teddy bears, defying Taliban bombers and conservative parents to find love this Valentine's Day.

“Some people cannot express their love and Valentine's Day provides them a good opportunity. It's a positive thing in this gloomy atmosphere and bombings,” the 32-year-old told AFP.

“Valentine's day is un-Islamic and against our culture and values... I've sent more than 1,000 text messages to various people,” Ahmed claimed.

Haji Zar Khan, spokesman for militant group Lashkar-i-Islam, currently subject to Pakistani military operations near Peshawar, was unaware of the significance of the day — until he was filled in by an AFP journalist. “Through you we send this message to all Peshawar — people should refrain from celebrating Valentine's Day otherwise they'll be responsible for the consequences,” Khan told AFP.

[Gagan]

Since hindsight is 20/20 I wonder what would have happened if Mrs Gandhi and Sheikh Mujib-ur Rehman had gone ahead and prosecuted the Pakistani military officers for genocide.

Pakistan for one would have been a different nation today. Their army would have had an even greater moment of pause, and they would not so easily have swept things under the carpet and carried on from there as if nothing had happened. They would not be indulging in another genocide in Baluchistan or in Afghanistan or Punjab or Kashmir.

It is just because the officers realized that they would not be punished for Dhaka and Bangladesh that emboldened them and their juniors.

From those lines in that treaty, the trial was ostensibly given up just because that snake oil salesman Bhutto would give a speech in Dhaka asking for forgiveness from the people of Bangladesh? That seems to be not well thought out. Bhutto's real game was to somehow undo 1971.

Perhaps Mrs Gandhi thought she could win Bhutto and the Pakistanis over if she persued peace with them. The same as Lal Bahadur Shastri giving up the Haji Pir pass in tashkent. The result is that to go from Poonch to Uri (A distance of some 35-40Km as the crow flies, one has to go ~200Km to get there via the kashmir valley).


One must not be too magnanimous with the defeated enemy when he comes to surrender.

[shiv]

It was fun going through TSP thread until 15-20 days back. Now it's all ...

What we need now is a massive terrorist attack in India to prove that the analysis here is right..



Even a small attack will make the analysis partly right. The real problem in fitting curve to fact is if no terrorist attack occurs. That, as we all know is unlikely. GoI is talking to Pakistan knowing that attacks cannot be prvented.

So the next step could be:

Attack occurs and we all say "Ah we predicted it here!" Big deal. What next? India will then stop talking. Big deal again. Not only has that been predicted here the GoI has itself said that I think.

Then what?

We want an attack on Pakistan.

But we wanted that in 1999, in 2001, in 2002 and 2008 and in the years in between.

So then what?