J & K news and discussion

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SSridhar
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Anindya wrote: - the stones (especially in the last picture) are not normal off the road stones - these are partially manufactured stones - that means they were either collected or inventoried - not possible to just pick these up off the streets
Anindya, true. See Pix no 100 especially where you will see a pile of blue metal normally used for building or road construction. But, the stone in the hand of the pelter in the foreground is far bigger. Some of the stones look like big pebbles that one normally sees along Himalayan river banks.

Also, these do not appear to me to be school kids unless they have spent considerable time in each grade on their way.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by JE Menon »

Is that "Rageboy" on the left in 101? :D
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Anindya »

New Delhi: The Youth Wing of the BJP attacked Kashmiri separatist Hurriyat Conference Mirwaiz Umer Farooq's car on Tuesday when he was entering Foreign Correspondent's club in New Delhi to attend a seminar....
from http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/right ... elhi-69636
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by ramana »

Pratyush wrote:Ramana,

In the latest issue of Telkha, there was a report on the stone pelting youth in the Valley. It quoted a doctor in one of the hospitals as "The killings are targeted killings" (Parapharaised). But he did not wish to be identified as he said that Policemen in mufti were present in the hospital.

If the comment was accurate and not the paranoia of the concerned individual. Then to me it implies that an attempt was made by the Security forces to take out the ring leaders.
I think those are two strikes against the veracity of the report.

- Tehelka is a RNI publication.
- Also the Sopore case shows valley doctors are jihadis in white coats. Recall the investigating lady doctor used her own smear to fake the results.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by jamwal »

Some family members visited Devi temple at top of Hari Parbat, Srinagar after a long time. The temple was in a bad shape. Some assholes had damaged the idol and stolen gold jewelery weighing at least 8 tolas. :evil:
My folks got the idol repaired, washed, decorated and performed a pooja. But there are 100s of Hindu religious places all over the valley which are in even worse shape. These inbreeding turds will kill any innocent they can lay their hands upon even on filmiest excuses like "dishonouring Quran" or cartoons and "secular liberals" here will defend their "right" to do so, but nobody bothers at this genocide and intolerance. :evil:
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

^^^ I have visited that temple, it is a beautiful place where I spent some time in contemplation
very sad to hear that it has been desecrated.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

ramana wrote: I think those are two strikes against the veracity of the report.

- Tehelka is a RNI publication.
- Also the Sopore case shows valley doctors are jihadis in white coats. Recall the investigating lady doctor used her own smear to fake the results.

Ok will keep in mind in the future. In my original post I had made a mistake. It was 23rd oct and not the latest.

Thanks.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by anupmisra »

JE Menon wrote:Is that "Rageboy" on the left in 101? :D
Looks like him. Or his third cousin from his mother's older sister's first marriage with Mohd Yusuf (the paki batsman).
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by wig »

while this here mirwaiz is making the max noise he can on the treatment he richly deserved in chandigarh and elsewhere, he and his predecessor kept quiet when the kashmiri pandits were butchered and driven out of kashmir. AFAIK the loudpeakers then would blare out demands for the male kashmiri pundits to desert
their women and leave. the predecessor of the current mirwaiz was not exactly performing the stellar role of protecting women's rights or fighting for the oprressed types at that point in time.

Mirwaiz hits out at political parties for maintaining silence
The chairman of the moderate faction of the Hurriyat Conference , Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, today blamed certain elements for recent attacks on him and senior executive member Bilal Lone in Chandigarh, Kolkata and New Delhi and lamented the silence of various parties and people over the issue.
He said Kashmiri Pandits were part of “our society” and regretted that certain elements were trying to create “divisions” between Kashmiris.
Addressing a press conference here on his return from New Delhi, Mirwaiz said the parties and the civil society maintained a silence over the attacks on him and Bilal Lone.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20101202/j&k.htm#11
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by jamwal »

Image
:mrgreen:
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Meanwhile in Delhi.

X posting from Internal security watch
arjunm wrote:Foreign Correspondents abuse Indian hospitality, host Mirwaiz
In an extremely provocative intervention in India’s internal affairs, the Delhi-based Foreign Correspondents’ Club of South Asia invited Kashmiri separatist leader Mirwaiz Umer Farooq for an exclusive interaction with foreign journalists, dis-inviting even the Indian media, which stood outside the venue and covered the protest by agitated nationalists, including members of the ousted Kashmiri Pandit community.
The writer and Smt. Nancy Kaul, convener, Daughters of Vitasta (an organisation of the ousted Pandit community), managed to enter the main gate of the Mathura Road venue, but were soon hustled out by a formidable lady who was checking each and every person against a typed list. She insisted firmly that the event was only for foreign correspondent members of the club, and so we were soon out.
The FCC management claimed that the meeting was organised so that journalists working for foreign media could hear the Hurriyat chairman, who has invited public ire across the nation on account of his demands for independence. It claimed the event was only for select invitees.

That this was not entirely true can be seen from the fact that a representative of the Pakistan High Commission was allowed to attend the meeting, even though he was not on the list of invitees. It seems the gentleman arrived at the club premises, identified himself and requested to be allowed in. One of the organisers told the policemen manning the gate to let him in (Times of India, Dec. 1, 2010).
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisp ... px?id=1521
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by jamwal »

When even Indian organisations can host pro-Maoist, pro-HurryRat conferences and invite musharrafs like Musharraf, who can stop these "foreigners" fro doing so ?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Anindya »

The news report below raises some interesting questions about what is going on - consider the following events/quotes:

- Foreign correspondents only speech by Umer Farooq where Indians are not allowed, but a Pakistani embassy staffer is allowed in
- Mirwaiz, Lone and Geelani are criss-crossing the country to give speeches defending Azaadi, to be supported by Indians on the far left - Lucknow and Hyderabad are next
- Subramaniam Swamy claims that Omar Abdullah is meeting with Pakistani officials in Gulf States
- Indian Interlocuters are very clear that they are preparing a roadmap for Azaadi including constitutional changes
- US and Canadian officials tour Kashmir and meet with all concerned
- Omar Abdullah claims that in effect the GOI has already accepted the 5 points of Geelani
- A significant number of left wing activists like Rohini Hensman, Shivam Vij mostly belonging to the Kashmir Solidarity Network have started pushing this for azaadi in the media

This is too well aligned to not have GOI support - who's funding this - what agreements have been made?
NEW DELHI: Indian media, including Times Now channel, was on Tuesday kept out of Kashmiri separatist leader Mirwaiz Umer Farooq's press conference hosted by Foreign Correspondents' Club that operates out of a sprawling government bungalow on prime Mathura Road.

Members of the FCC management said the conference was organised so that journalists working for foreign media could hear the Mirwaiz, who has been facing public anger for his pro-independence remarks. The club management also said the event was only for a select number of invitees.

But eyewitnesses said a representative of the Pakistan high commission was allowed in by one of the organisers, even though he was not on the list of invitees. "The gentleman (from the high commission) came in and identified himself with a request to be allowed in. One of the organisers told the policemen manning the gate to let him in," an eyewitness told TOI.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 018898.cms
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Anindya wrote:. . .consider the following events/quotes: . . . . . .
This is too well aligned to not have GOI support - who's funding this - what agreements have been made?
Anindya, to your list add the following:
  • GoI refusing to take action against Indians advocating secession
  • Cabinet minister(s) agreeing with the Omar Abdullah assertion that J&K never became integral with India
  • A heightened number of trips by secessionist leaders to various parts of India holding forth their PoV
Even if GoI may not be supporting this line of activity, they are certainly tolerating this poison for reasons best known to them. Aman ki Asha has run its course and lost its steam and now this.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Anindya »

Even if GoI may not be supporting this line of activity, they are certainly tolerating this poison for reasons best known to them. Aman ki Asha has run its course and lost its steam and now this.
SS,

At least with Aman ki Aasha - after some digging we got clues about intent, who, source of money etc. Here I have not been able to dig up anything from any of my usual sources.

Something to keep an eye on.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by ramana »

Need to ask Radia on whats going on.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Ambar »

Who are his primary audience? Lucknow,Hyderabad and Kolkata all have a significant muslim population with whom he might find a few sympathizers, but Chandigarh is beyond me.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by abhishek_sharma »

US said India would 'compromise' on Kashmir if Pak worked on counter-terror

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/WikiL ... ect/719771
The US senator even went on to say that India would ‘compromise’ on issues like Kashmir if Pakistan works on the counter-terrorism front. “Kerry said that cooperation on counter-terrorism with the Indians could lead to Indian compromises on key Pakistani issues such as Kashmir and water use in subsequent meetings,” the cable reads. “You could arrive at a surprising consensus of mutual understanding,” Kerry is quoted as saying.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by ramana »

So US Senators are negotiating what India will give to TSP? This is getting ridiculous.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Raja Ram »

ramana sir,
This is one other indication of how things are going on in the last few years. When decisions are not taken on India's interest by the GOI, there are others willing to take them for us and asking us to deliver on them.

Marching to other's drumbeats is fraught with risk - this rambler had said that long back, and surprisingly was met with disbelief, even on this forum, when the signs were there to see, for those willing to see.

These leaks only reaffirm the fact that India must do what it needs to do for its national interests. It cannot afford a policy of drift and concentrate only on a selective almost unicameral agenda of growth. Security is necessary to guarantee, underpin and accelerate that growth.

The artificial entity of Pakistan must be sent to its logical end by a decisive GOI for us to build the bedrock of security on which growth can happen.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by abhishek_sharma »

ramana wrote:So US Senators are negotiating what India will give to TSP? This is getting ridiculous.
NDTV reports:

GoI Sources: Nothing embarrassing in WikiLeaks so far.

So this is not embarrassing for the govt. Why should it be? Kerry visited Delhi on that tour. Who knows what signals were given to him?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Raja Ram & Ramana,

Kerry went to Islamabad after meeting Man Mohan Singh in New Delhi. Several things are falling into place now. While Kerry might have made an off-the-cuff remark on India compromising on Kashmir, the various mysterious ways in which GoI has behaved in recent times on the J&K issue, makes one think otherwise. Kerry's visit was also a few days before Ms. Nirupama Rao met her counterpart for the first time after 26/11.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by jamwal »

The Indian female singer at the Asian Games closing ceremony is from Jammu. How did she manage to get Chinese visa ?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Sanku »

SSridhar wrote:Raja Ram & Ramana,

Kerry went to Islamabad after meeting Man Mohan Singh in New Delhi. Several things are falling into place now. While Kerry might have made an off-the-cuff remark on India compromising on Kashmir, the various mysterious ways in which GoI has behaved in recent times on the J&K issue, makes one think otherwise. Kerry's visit was also a few days before Ms. Nirupama Rao met her counterpart for the first time after 26/11.
Sirs I humbly submit that this pattern has been evidently visible since Havana, and some of us have been calling on it only to be ridiculed.

It is clear that apart from the policy of "drift other than economy" mentioned by SS and RR; a policy of "outsource decision making on all geo-pol issues and many internal home issues to US of A" is also being followed.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Vikas »

jamwal wrote:Some family members visited Devi temple at top of Hari Parbat, Srinagar after a long time. The temple was in a bad shape. Some assholes had damaged the idol and stolen gold jewelery weighing at least 8 tolas. :evil:
My folks got the idol repaired, washed, decorated and performed a pooja. But there are 100s of Hindu religious places all over the valley which are in even worse shape. These inbreeding turds will kill any innocent they can lay their hands upon even on filmiest excuses like "dishonouring Quran" or cartoons and "secular liberals" here will defend their "right" to do so, but nobody bothers at this genocide and intolerance. :evil:
Jamwal Ji, Pls express my deepest thanks to your family members. I don't know how and when this Wahabi-Saudi sickening influence will be purged out of our nation. The GoI and local govt is more interested in pandering to terrorists and Islamic mullahs.
Who cares about Hindus lest they be called RSS-Wala?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by CRamS »

Raja Ram wrote:
Marching to other's drumbeats is fraught with risk - this rambler had said that long back, and surprisingly was met with disbelief, even on this forum, when the signs were there to see, for those willing to see.
You are not the only one who said, many other including me have been wary of MMS's mover ever since his parelys with terrorist Mush have been made public.

The artificial entity of Pakistan must be sent to its logical end by a decisive GOI for us to build the bedrock of security on which growth can happen.
We keep beating on this theme, but maybe reality is different. Please suggest some concrete workable policies that can bring this about. Those leaks also indicate that Indian military is no position to deliver a telling blow to TSPA; the need of the hour is to dent TSP's H&D to such an extent that its obsession of parity with India will be blown away. Otherwise, in the back drop of nukes, TSP operates with impunity in an equal equal framework, and makes obnoxious demands.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by RamaY »

CRamS wrote: We keep beating on this theme, but maybe reality is different. Please suggest some concrete workable policies that can bring this about. Those leaks also indicate that Indian military is no position to deliver a telling blow to TSPA; the need of the hour is to dent TSP's H&D to such an extent that its obsession of parity with India will be blown away. Otherwise, in the back drop of nukes, TSP operates with impunity in an equal equal framework, and makes obnoxious demands.
GOI is in analysis-paralysis for past two decades, be it defense preparedness or Indian interests. Another Mr. Klean Sri Antony is keeping an "extremely" tight leash on defense purchases and there "might" be a chance of corruption. Sri Antony is so scared that he stopped buying rice from the market as it as well could be a stolen batch of rice from FCI.

The interesting thing about this leak on CS is that
- Leaks say that CS is not fully ready.
- GOI did not want to use it during/after 11/26
- CS has limited support from babudome.

The icing on the cake is the statement by some IA general that there is no CS (I saw this news item on BR news links a couple of days ago).

Now what is the truth?

Is there a CS? If so is it properly funded? If not why? Is IA pressing MoD on this? How come we see billions of $ funds allocated to various IN projects? What is the threshold that would trigger CS and so on...

Some of us may argue that the confusion itself has lot of strategic value and the enemy will keep guessing on CS and not do anything stupid. IF the (perceived) existence of CS did not stop 11/26, what GOI must expect in the (overt) absence of CS (be it leaks or IA comments).

One has to wait till next 11/26 to see if there truly exists a CS.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Anindya »

Yet another interface with the separatists, terrorists...a real credible bunch of stalwarts this time....
You came all the way from Delhi to Srinagar but nobody troubled you,” Mohammad Ashraf told an 11-member team including MPs Ram Vilas Paswan, D. Raja, Nageshwar Rao and Shahid Siddiqui, filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt, journalist Seema Mustafa and academic Kamal Mitra Chenoy.

“But why do you trouble our elders who go outside to educate people about human rights violations here?” he asked, alluding to the attacks on separatists Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Mirwaiz Umer Farooq in Delhi, Chandigarh and Calcutta.

Ashraf is the father of Tufail Ahmad Mattoo, a Class XI student whose death in security forces firing on June 11 triggered the unrest that has left another 111 dead and thousands injured.

“We did not throw stones at you, nor did we throw eggs or shoes at you. You are our revered guests but you should know that our secularism is more deep-rooted than yours,” Ashraf said as the visitors looked embarrassed.

Geelani and the Mirwaiz had faced hostile crowds who heckled them, roughed them up or threw shoes at them during seminars, or aimed eggs at their cars as happened in Calcutta. The attacks have prompted many here to question India’s claims of having a tolerant and democratic civil society.

“I had a bigger reason to throw stones at Indian politicians because my son was killed in unprovoked firing. But I told them (the delegation) that you are welcome here,” Ashraf later said.

Ashraf’s family played a CD before the visitors showing the aftermath of Tufail’s death, his funeral and the protests that followed.

The visitors told the family they did not represent the government of India and were genuinely moved by the pain of Kashmiris. “The people of India care for you and embrace you,” Mahesh Bhatt said.

The interface, an initiative by the New Delhi-based Centre for Policy Analysis, was a follow-up to a visit by an all-party delegation in September, who met the separatists. Today’s delegation, though, did not include anyone from the Congress and the BJP.

“We are on a fact-finding mission and want to listen to the grief and grievances of the people and convey it to the government,” the CPI’s D. Raja said.

The delegation met Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front leader Yasin Malik and is scheduled to hold talks with other separatists in the next couple of days.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101204/j ... 257577.jsp
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by RamaY »

^ Who asked them to go there?

Can anyone form a fact finding mission and write whatever they think and perceive?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Raja Ram »

what care and concern? How touching of the delegation and how magnanimous of the kashmiris? ........I am sure our media will exercise their professional judgement and give this adequate air time and publicity.

Oh how much time did this "people of India" delegation spend time visiting the kashmiri pundit camps do you ask? Or how many temples in kashmir have they visited or armed force camps or relatives of people killed by militants? .....that is not the story, we must not be sidetracked by small instances, but listen to the people of kashmir and be a proud defender of human rights!

God bless us all
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by wig »

Humiliated in PoK, woman returns to Poonch
Yet again a sordid tale of a woman from divided families, who faced several hardships for six months ever since she, in a fit of anger, crossed the Line of Control (LoC) from Poonch district and entered Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) on May 30 this year. Caught between the devil and the deep sea, Noor Jahan, a married woman having three children, had to walk for two nights empty stomach to reunite with her children in Poonch.

Noor, 35, wife of Abdul Majid of Gutriyan village of Poonch district, who had crossed the LoC to PoK, returned to this side on November 30. Noor had an altercation with her husband and in a fit of anger she crossed over to PoK leaving behind her husband and three children, one of them still in the lap.

During questioning, she disclosed that having crossed the LoC, she was picked up by the Pakistani army, which ill-treated her and subsequently handed her to the police where she was subjected to more torture. She kept pleading her innocence, but her efforts went in vain.

Noor was then produced in a court where she was released on bail after her uncle and sister-in-law paid huge amount of money. She was then taken to the Mohajir camp in Mangbajri where she stayed with her uncle Mohammed Azam.

Her continuous appeals to Azam to send her back to her family in Poonch fell on deaf ears. She was constantly pressurised by her uncle to forget her family, stay on in PoK and get married again. Besides, the woman was also contacted by some terrorist groups and ISI officials who tried to lure her to become their operative to spread terror in India.

Despite her repeated denials to get involved in such activities, she was constantly approached by various agencies in PoK. She was also mistreated during these interactions by terrorist groups and ISI officials, probably with the approval of her uncle.

Finally, Noor got fed up with the humiliation during her stay in the camp and decided to return to Poonch. On November 28, when her uncle was out to attend a marriage ceremony, Noor ran away from the house with whatever money she could lay her hands on. She took a bus to get as close to the LoC as possible, but the money was so less that she could travel only about 20 miles short of the LoC.

Not knowing anybody else in PoK and having been humiliated at the hands of both civilians and Pakistani army personnel, she decided to walk the rest of the distance to her home. She walked for two nights before she could reach the LoC, where she was picked up by troops of the Indian Army.

The lady was in a poor state of health, having neither eaten nor rested for the past two days. The troops of the Indian Army looked after her and immediately gave her food and got her medically checked to ensure her good health. She was then handed over to the Poonch police for further disposal. Noor is now fulfilling legal formalities before rejoining her family.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20101204/jkplus.htm#4
Last edited by wig on 04 Dec 2010 22:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Hiten »

Kashmiri Taliban, the Sunni Islamist Hurriyat mobs have burned down a bus carrying school children in Srinagar - TimesNow beaming visuals of the charred bus
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Raghavendra »

School bus torched in Srinagar to enforce shutdown
http://www.zeenews.com/news672299.html
Srinagar: A mob torched a school bus in Old City area here on Saturday to enforce a shutdown called by hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani across the Kashmir Valley. No one was injured in the incident, police said.

"The bus of a private school was stopped at Khwaja Bazaar in Old City area. The students and the driver were forced to get down and the bus was then torched by the miscreants," a police official said.

Following the incident, some private schools in uptown and downtown areas of Srinagar declared a holiday on Saturday. Students were sent back to their homes even though many had already reached their schools.

"The safety of children is our paramount concern and we have shut down the school today (Saturday) to ensure that no harm comes to our childern," said the principal of one of the prominent public schools in Srinagar.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I hope that none of the kids was hurt. In this act of vandalism by the peace loving "Freedom Fighters", of Cashmier. This is a konspiricy by Raw to maline the good name of the secular terrorist movement and sow the seed of ill will towards the spontainous and mass movement by the whabai terrorists in the Cashmier valley.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Prem »

Who’s afraid of Arundhati Roy?
Birth of Another BDY !

http://www.unnindia.com/english/story.php?Id=7194
Four days later, in a statement in the Constituent Assembly, on Nov. 25, 1947, Nehru declared, “In order to establish our bona fide, we have suggested that when the people are given the chance to decide their future, this should be done under the supervision of an impartial tribunal such as the UN. The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force should decide the future or the will of the people.” Again in Constituent Assembly on March 5, 1948, the premier said, “Even at the moment of accession, we went out of our way to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide by the will of the people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or referendum. We have adhered to that position throughout and we are prepared to have a plebiscite with every protection of fair voting and to abide by the decision of the people of Kashmir.”
Commenting on the bitter war of words between India and Pakistan over Kashmir, Nehru warned in Parliament on March 31, 1955, “Kashmir is perhaps the most difficult of problems between India and Pakistan. We should also remember that Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir!” There are dozens of such assurances in Nehru’s speeches and statements — and those of other leaders — promising the Kashmiris a fair deal. So this whole circus of prosecuting Roy and others on the charges of “sedition” is not just absurd but is a poor reflection on our maturity as a proud nation. Instead of celebrating our truly courageous, selfless artistes and intellectuals such as Roy and respecting their right to dissent and have their say, we are rushing to burn them at the stake.
India is not just the world’s largest democracy; it is without doubt its greatest and most colorful. We do it great disservice by heckling and attacking dissenting voices.
Personally speaking, as an Indian Muslim, I would want nothing better than have this “paradise on earth” and its charming and refined people stay with India. In fact, this whole idea of “Muslim Kashmiris” going with “Muslim Pakistan” makes my generation of the post-partition, post-Ayodhya Muslims terribly uneasy. But it’s not for me or you to determine that question, is it? Ultimately, as Nehru repeatedly emphasized, it’s for the Kashmiris to decide.
Be it India or Pakistan, no one can force that decision on the Kashmiris on either side of the Line of Control at gunpoint. The battle for Kashmiri hearts and minds cannot be won with 700,000 soldiers constantly breathing down the Kashmiris’ neck.

( Why do we need to win the battle of heart and mind of Jihadi,sunni kashmiri terrorist , Mian? wont we ratehr win the heart and mind of Billion indians which is much more important and valuable. )
Prasad
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Prasad »

The "Kashmir" that Pt. Nehru talked about no longer exists except in history books. PoK, as an entity, is nowhere close to the entity that existed before the Pak invasion in 1948, demographically or otherwise. So this constant harping that Kashmiris be let to choose their own future in a plebiscite is being applied only to the area within India. Intellectually dishonest and a terribly unfair when nearly half the erstwhile state of Kashmir no longer exists except in name. Do the UN resolutions still hold any water in such a case? I don't seem to recall anyone talking about this when they speak of plebiscite and self-determination of Kashmiris. Besides, even in J&K, I don't see Ladakhis or people from Jammu wanting to have anything to do with a plebiscite. Why doesn't this person talk about those people then!
Prem
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Prem »

Prasad ji,
Expecting objectivity from Hidden or overt Mullah is like Paki to have normal behavior. His audienes are in te Me and his masters sitting in islamabdad.
brihaspati
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by brihaspati »

The way to solve the K problem is to call the nuke blackmail bluff. Prepare Indians to brace for possible nuke attacks anyway - since sooner or later the Chinese or the Pakis are going to allow the Jihadis to have nukes, and even if India withholds retaliation the Jihadis will use nukes whenever they get them. Do prepare for massive retaliation and finishing off the Islamabad regime and a complete physical liquidation of the PA, including all potential military resistance by encouraging and provoking the adult males to take up arms. But have to hold off PLA. So perhaps coordinated action with "others" to distract PLA in the far east.

India has to take initiative and plan on her own. No one piggybacks on others whims towards safety. There is this tendency in Indian leadership of not finishing businesses. With Pak, no humanitarian or other considerations should come in between and it should be finished off, with none of the traces left for it to ever recover.

It is a matter of who gets to do it first on the other - Pak on India or India on Pak.
svinayak
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by svinayak »

Prasad wrote:The "Kashmir" that Pt. Nehru talked about no longer exists except in history books. PoK, as an entity, is nowhere close to the entity that existed before the Pak invasion in 1948, demographically or otherwise. So this constant harping that Kashmiris be let to choose their own future in a plebiscite is being applied only to the area within India. Intellectually dishonest and a terribly unfair when nearly half the erstwhile state of Kashmir no longer exists except in name. Do the UN resolutions still hold any water in such a case? I don't seem to recall anyone talking about this when they speak of plebiscite and self-determination of Kashmiris. Besides, even in J&K, I don't see Ladakhis or people from Jammu wanting to have anything to do with a plebiscite. Why doesn't this person talk about those people then!
Pakistan that everybody talks about of 1947 does not exist now. It is broken and new Pakistan which is not of Jinnah and did not keep its promise for Kashmir and India. Hence this entire reference to Nehru JLN for talking about Kashmiri choice of 1947(Kashmiris be let to choose their own future in a plebiscite) and applying to 2010 is absurd. This is falsehood and pulling wool on the people.

Just read a new book by a western author who makes absurd comparison to 1947 to solve a 2010 problem.
This author is the most - unscholarly author of India who has simplistic narrative of Hindus and Hinduism.
He will talk about todays Pakistan and jihad and global islamic problems but then refer to 1947 Kashmir and Pakistan to describe the problem. So looking at the history for 60 years he completely ignores the jihad and Islamist growth inside Pakistan and its contribution to more problem in Kashmir and conflict. He will use 1947 reference and agreement to justify the current situation in the region.

http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520266773
India and Pakistan
Continued Conflict or Cooperation?
Stanley Wolpert
Hardcover, 144 pages
ISBN: 9780520266773
September 2010
Beginning in 1947, when "India and Pakistan were born to conflict," renowned India scholar Stanley Wolpert provides an authoritative, accessible primer on what is potentially the world's most dangerous crisis. He concisely distills sixty-three years of complex history, tracing the roots of the relationship between these two antagonists, explaining the many attempts to resolve their disputes, and assessing the dominant political leaders. While the tragic Partition left many urgent problems, none has been more difficult than the problem over Kashmir, claimed by both India and Pakistan. This intensely divisive issue has triggered two conventional wars, killed some 100,000 Kashmiris, and almost ignited two nuclear wars since 1998, when both India and Pakistan openly emerged as nuclear-weapon states. In addition to providing a comprehensive perspective on the origin and nature of this urgent conflict, Wolpert examines all the proposed solutions and concludes with a road map for a brighter future for South Asia.

"Stanley Wolpert is one of our country's most prominent, prolific and insightful scholars writing about India and Pakistan's complex relationship, which has been too often defined by conflict and tragedy. His new work, India and Pakistan, is not only an illuminating survey of the countries' intertwined history but also a thoughtful, in-depth review of the issues that have divided India and Pakistan since their inception. This is an important book, written with the benefit of deep knowledge of the region and informed by incisive and erudite analysis."—Vartan Gregorian, President, Carnegie Corporation of New York

"Professor Stanley Wolpert's latest is a wonderfully lucid and succinct survey of the tangled web of India-Pakistan relations over the decades. Its high point is the last chapter on the potential solutions to the Kashmir conflict—a must read for the people and leaders of the two nations. It should be immediately translated."—Dilip K. Basu, University of California, Santa Cruz
CRamS
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by CRamS »

Acharya wrote:"Professor Stanley Wolpert's latest is a wonderfully lucid and succinct survey of the tangled web of India-Pakistan relations over the decades. Its high point is the last chapter on the potential solutions to the Kashmir conflict —a must read for the people and leaders of the two nations. It should be immediately translated."—Dilip K. Basu, University of California, Santa Cruz
Anybody knows what his suggestions are? Something straight out out of Shirleen's rear end? I know this Stanley dude is a darling of TSP because everytime they condict a terror attack, and India whines or even attempts something like operation Parakram, he calls it a 'knee jerk' reaction.
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