Bharat Rakshak

pgbhat wrote:onlee in Pacquistan can one want to move from Krachi to Peshawar to feel "safe".

Sir you are failing to appreciate the true meaning of safe. It does NOT mean safe for everyone..it is safe for your particular group. But totally unsafe for all others, but we give a sh.t on that, don't we?

So Karachi is 'safe' for most Mohajirs, Lawhore is totally safe for Pakjabis and Sipah-e-Saibha activists, Piss-hour for Pashtuns and so on...

Of course, every rule has exceptions too...

BBC Link for the IED in Quetta.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14727621

Reports 5 dead, dozen injured. Apparently a bunch of other cars in the lot caught fire as well and some houses are damaged.

jrjrao wrote:Folks, before we find and misinterpret some words or two, or a column or two, in order to dump on Ms. Marvi Sirmed, pl. consider what courage it took to publish this op-ed in a Pakistani newspaper just 30 days ago:

Shelve the old music please —Marvi Sirmed

Our state-defined interest remains that of saving our borders from an ‘enemy’ that has never attacked us, a country we have attacked three times in 63 years, an economy that is too big for us to compete with under the present circumstances and a people we have waged proxy wars against.

India matters. India gives the US jobs and a market. India has emerged as a responsible nation that is not causing trouble in the world, not even in Pakistan. At least that is the perception India has created for itself. India has emerged as a stable, viable and trustworthy partner that has no underlying agenda of destroying the US or the west or of its own ideological expansion. Despite having a Muslim population now equalling the entire population of Pakistan, India could never be traced as the source of Islamic terrorism.

India conducted a nuclear test much before us but what makes it more acceptable is its constant efforts to improve its human development indicators, its serious commitment to non-proliferation, its democratic mechanism of checks and balances, accountability of its defence sector that to-date remains subservient to its people’s will through their representatives. Most of all, India stands out because of its commitment to pluralism, its recognition of new opportunities to improve relations with world powers due to economic considerations, its renewed focus on internal development, less prickly attitude to the outside world and responsible nuclear behaviour that comes from its complete refusal to impose its own system on the entire world.

Before the readers dismiss it as a eulogy of India, please consider what havoc we have played with our own people, our own country by not doing what India has been doing. And today, India remains much more respected and trusted than us when not even our closest allies are ready to trust us, including our ‘Muslim brothers’. Even if the central focus of our existence is to tackle India (really?), should we not re-assess our policies urgently?

Sir,
Marvi is not alone. There are quiet a number of them.
A Rehman, M Ziauddin, Zahid Husain, Nazir Leghari, Husain Naqi, Sadaf Arshad, Attaul Musawar, Amir Mahmood, Siddique Baloch, Tariq Chaudhry, Tahir Rathore, Khalid Farooqi, Ayaz Khan, Raza Rumi, Shahzada Zulfiqar, Nusrat Javed, Sirmed Manzoor, Agha Nasir, Iftikhar Ahmad, Babar Ayaz, Shamim Shahid, Saleem Shahid, Dr Jabbar Khattak, Ghazi Salahuddin, Mujahid Barelvi, Irfana Mallah, Jehangeer Aslam, GN Mughal, Ghulam Nabi Chandio, Syed Mumtaz Shah, Lala Asad, Khalid Khokar, Fayyaz Naich, Amer Sindhu, Anjum Rasheed, Khalid Chaudhry, Shoaib Adil, Saida Fazal, Munno Bhai, Ibrahim Shirwani, Asma Shirazi, Afzal Khan, Mustansar Javed, Rana Qaisar, Shamsul Islam Naz, Khushnood Ali Khan, Mehmal Sarfraz, Khaled Ahmed, Allama Sadiq Azhar and Imtiaz Alam.

Feeling insecure, Pakhtuns start leaving Karachi
http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/29/feeling- ... rachi.html

THE deteriorating law and order situation in Karachi has forced many people of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa to leave behind their properties, jobs and business and say goodbye to the port city

.

The exodus starts. From Darul Islam to where?

^^ Would be nice if the refugee pushtuns settle in Pakjab instead of Sindh. Around lawhore and Isloo seems suitable...

ArmenT wrote:BBC Link for the IED in Quetta.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14727621

Reports 5 dead, dozen injured. Apparently a bunch of other cars in the lot caught fire as well and some houses are damaged.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to have set a new bench mark in painting the Mohammadden religion as not being a catalyst for fostering a yearning for Peace in the heart of its adherents by a demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan on the Mohammadden holy day of EID ul Fitr.

Yes today, Wednesday August 31st, has been declared to be EID ul Fitr in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, barring off course Khyber Pakhtunkhwa which likes to celebrate EID on a different day:

Eidul Fitr today

"Karachi Affair" threatens Sarko!
Oops!.Didn't notice it posted earlier,the posts are coming in thick and fast.

Hari Seldon wrote:^^ Would be nice if the refugee pushtuns settle in Pakjab instead of Sindh. Around lawhore and Isloo seems suitable...

Exactly. I think Abbotabad or Rawalpindi would be good places.

>>Atish Taseer is very correct.

Indeed he is. If you read his excellent and deeply honest book, you will see why he is correct, and why Marvi Sirmed (who cannot know him as well as his son does) is definitely wrong.

However, it is important not to dump on Sirmed. She is merely saying what she knows. From the perspective of Paks, even those who have some sense, Arundhati is someone who is considered a "special" Indian just because she seems "liberal" and she seems so because she is ready to criticise India in a way that no one else (with a few exceptions) from the Indian side does... They identify with her as someone from the other side who is just like them (on the Pak side). The difference is that they do not realise she is basically an extremist because the other Indians on our side are not like the other Paks on their side. They assume, because they dont know, that the Indians on this side have similar worldviews and opinions like the other Paks on their side.

This does not make Sirmed right, just understandable. In short, we need to use Sirmed like the Paks use Arundhati.

Aatish, on the other hand, is a fantastic writer who has undoubtedly taken many qualities from his mother, who is by no means a bleeding heart WKK type. It is not surprising that he has dedicated his book very simply "For Ma". The other credit (not dedication) he gives, among others, is to Ella Windsor (as in the House of Windsor, the British royal family; yes she is a blueblood), who used to be (maybe still is) his girlfriend. He does not harbour any illusions, and is not afraid to speak his mind. A true Indian, IMHO. No one has to agree with everything he says, but his courage to say what he does must be appreciated.

arun wrote:

ArmenT wrote:BBC Link for the IED in Quetta.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14727621

Reports 5 dead, dozen injured. Apparently a bunch of other cars in the lot caught fire as well and some houses are damaged.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to have set a new bench mark in painting the Mohammadden religion as not being a catalyst for fostering a yearning for Peace in the heart of its adherents by a demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan on the Mohammadden holy day of EID ul Fitr.

Yes today, Wednesday August 31st, has been declared to be EID ul Fitr in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, barring off course Khyber Pakhtunkhwa which likes to celebrate EID on a different day:

Eidul Fitr today

Xinhua is reporting that the EID ul Fitr attack on a Mosque parking lot in Quetta was an IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan and was targeting members of the minority Shia Mohammadden sect:

10 killed, 25 injured in suicide blast in Pakistan

Marvi Sirmed and other "Pakistani Liberals" want to hold up a few names in their society to cling to. The Pakistani Liberals had pronounced Salmaan Taseer as a liberal.

That is why she too is forced to support Salmaan Taseer's credentials as a liberal voice in Pakistan. Their narrative is that he was a liberal voice and he was killed by an Islamic fanatic. And then we Indians barge in and put a makhi in their Aarti to Salmaan Taseer, calling him RAPE, India-hating Gaa...du, ityadi, spoiling their whole narrative. Besides his family owns the newspaper in which she writes.

Salmaan Taseer seems to be some kind of tool in their internal fight with the conservatives. As such I don't see a need to interpret her defense of Salmaan Taseer, as some ant-Indian position. Should we Indians care about Taseers?!

jrjr

welcome back again. For fux sake man, post more often if you can. Those of us who remember are missing your inimitable style, I'm sure. Now, if I were a Pak patriot (in the conventional non-jihadi sense), I would say that is an excellent write up by Marvi and it shows a fundamental understanding of realities. And the listing by menon s is interesting as well.

But this can be dangerous. Why? Such a sustained outbreak of common sense among the Paks is worrying because it suggests that, if it has an impact, it can affect the current downward trajectory of the state of Pakistan. I'm reasonably confident that this outbreak won't be contagious. But if it is, it will delay the inevitable and give the military room to breathe (and therefore return to their shenanigans). India does not need that. Common sense in Pakistan not something we can afford at this point, not unless they change the fundamentals of the state ideology - and that only the military can do, and all indications so far are that the defence establishment will not do it because it effectively means giving up their pre-eminent role as the consumer of the wealth created by the state.

Thanx for posting that article by Sirmed. Very very interesting. I have yet to see such a clear and blunt description of the problem, not even from Farouk Saleem.

>>The Pakistani Liberals had pronounced Salmaan Taseer as a liberal.

Yes, and there's a reason for that. To the Pakistani "liberal" (even those like Marvi), Salman was liberal because he was a typical RAPE - with all the outer trappings: daily whiskey drinker, occasional pork eater, womaniser, non-observant as a Muslim, an ability to come to the defence of the downtrodden when it suited his political interests, etc. This was and is enough because in Pakistan the image is all that matters. And to their allies too, hitherto, although this is changing. The Americans are beginning to recognise that an Armani suit and an Hermes handbag do not a true liberal make.

They never cared about the inner reality. Thus the same Salman abandoned (or rather did not recognise) his own son because he was half-Sikh, from India - and initially preferred an abortion (although this is not explicitly stated in the book, from the interaction between Salman and Tavleen Singh described in the book, the implication is clear). This is a man, thrice married (if I counted correctly) whose recognised son in Pakistan could say "I hate fu(king Hindus, man" to his half brother from India - probably assuming his half-brother would not mind such a comment because he was half-Sikh after all, and we all know they think the Sikhs and Hindus hate each other!!! The same Salman could deride Indian achievements (the suggestion it could have been said in a joking way is disingenuous). All Salman liked India for was the opportunity it provided him to live as a non-observant Muslim to the extent he liked, which is why he visited India several times (the Imran Khan syndrome).

JeM

Very well put.

While the following is Aatish's opinion, i trust it to be, if anything, a slightly bueatified version of reality (this is from his book, about Salman Taseer, also, though half sikh, and raised in/by a sikh family, Aatish was raised muslim, and was always made aware of that fact)-

"“I had begun my journey asking why my father was Muslim, and this was why: none of Islam’s once powerful moral imperatives existed within him, but he was Muslim because he doubted the Holocaust, hated America and Israel, thought Hindus were weak and cowardly, and because the glories of the Islamic past excited him.

“The faith decayed within him, ceased to be dynamic, ceased to provide moral guidance, became nothing but a deep, unreachable historical and political identity. This was all that still had the force of faith. It was significant because in the end, this was the moderate Muslim, and it was too little moderation and in the wrong areas. It didn’t matter how someone prayed, how much they prayed, what dress they wore, whether they chose to drink or not, but it did matter that someone harboured feelings of hatred, for Jews, Americans or Hindus, that were founded in faith and only masked in political arguments.”

This is the vile @hole Ms Sirmed wants to defend and call a 'liberal'. I reiterate - irrespective of what she is writing now, if it superficially sounds sensible, I put it down to takkiya.

She and her ilk need to be subsumed by the real, glorious gazhis of her land. Sooner the better.

Strongman Syndrome

A popular call has been one of mass execution of politicians by the Army and then a messianic ushering in of a glorious leader who can quash any sort of dissent.

Bring back Gola. Musharraf Zindabad.

^^^ JEM, excellent post.

subodh wrote: She and her ilk need to be subsumed by the real, glorious gazhis of her land. Sooner the better.

Let's not be emotional ... Sirmed is probably sincere, but ignorant. There are layers and layers of deceit that have to be peeled away one by one. She may be of some use, even if she has not attained full understanding of Pakistaniyat. You have to go step by step, Rome was not built in a day.

subodh, I have to say I agree with Pranav in terms of the treatment Sirmed should receive from us, and with you in terms of the treatment she will ultimately receive from the real glorious ghazis of her land.

Sirmed may well be the Taslima equivalent from west beggardesh. Her seeking asylum in Delhi is quite a possibility mind you.

In any such discussion, we should divorce India-directed jihad from jihad in general especially jihad directed internally. Even those Pakistanis who otherwise would be up-in-arms against TTP, Punjabi Taliban, ISI & IB meddling in local affairs would stand behind them in whatever atrocities they do against India. We cannot let Pakistan escape the noose just because of a handful of people who are more liberal than what we are accustomed to seeing from Pakistan. The voice of these liberals may not reach larger masses within Pakistan who get their daily dose of news from vernacular newspapers, magazines, jihadi publications, news channels and thoroughly biased discussions in TV channels anchored by anti-India anchor men & women. The State and the ISI control such programming. It is the English-language newspapers that are given some autonomy and freedom to manufacture a favourable image outside. Marvi Sirmed has so far been extraordinarily courageous and we are yet to see streaks of un-necessary anti-Indianness in her. Time will tell, however.

Pranav wrote: Let's not be emotional ... Sirmed is probably sincere, but ignorant.

"The proclamation that Taseer hated India is one of the biggest crimes against the truth. Based on many discussions with the late governor, I can say it with full responsibility that the claim is wrong and must be based on some personal considerations, certainly not factual. "

She sure is sincere, though i doubt she is ignorant.

And yes - I am emotional - happy to be precise - that her ilk, who i personally consider more evil than the pure gazhis, are finally meeting their 72.

Its the 'liberal elite', described succintly by JeM above - who allowed and abetted this genocidal experiment right next door to India for 60 years. Its her ilk who provided the cover for this set of inbred scum to be financed and supported all these years. Its them who still fly the flag for that place in the west, undermining whatever little a diffident India has tried to do to solve this problem for itself. And finally, and most importantly, its her ilk who provide cover to the military machine to sustain its single minded obsession of killing Indian children, women and men.

I cannot wait for her type to be wiped out. Cant be soon enough.

And while I appreciate your idea of this project being done slowly, with layers of deciet being revealed (if nothing, for enjoying the intellectual contortions the supporters of this evil will go through to justify their past actions - be it in the West, or even in India). But - the pure gazhis cant be subtle and their time is now. All we can do is encourage and watch. And stay the **** out of the way.

JE Menon wrote:>>Atish Taseer is very correct.

Indeed he is. If you read his excellent and deeply honest book, you will see why he is correct, and why Marvi Sirmed (who cannot know him as well as his son does) is definitely wrong.

However, it is important not to dump on Sirmed. She is merely saying what she knows. From the perspective of Paks, even those who have some sense, Arundhati is someone who is considered a "special" Indian just because she seems "liberal" and she seems so because she is ready to criticise India in a way that no one else (with a few exceptions) from the Indian side does... They identify with her as someone from the other side who is just like them (on the Pak side). The difference is that they do not realise she is basically an extremist because the other Indians on our side are not like the other Paks on their side. They assume, because they dont know, that the Indians on this side have similar worldviews and opinions like the other Paks on their side.

This does not make Sirmed right, just understandable. In short, we need to use Sirmed like the Paks use Arundhati.

Aatish, on the other hand, is a fantastic writer who has undoubtedly taken many qualities from his mother, who is by no means a bleeding heart WKK type. It is not surprising that he has dedicated his book very simply "For Ma". The other credit (not dedication) he gives, among others, is to Ella Windsor (as in the House of Windsor, the British royal family; yes she is a blueblood), who used to be (maybe still is) his girlfriend. He does not harbour any illusions, and is not afraid to speak his mind. A true Indian, IMHO. No one has to agree with everything he says, but his courage to say what he does must be appreciated.

I think she was WKK , until she got close hand look at RAPE, the son while growing up got to see Rape for what they are.

Pranav wrote:

subodh wrote: She and her ilk need to be subsumed by the real, glorious gazhis of her land. Sooner the better.

Let's not be emotional ... Sirmed is probably sincere, but ignorant. There are layers and layers of deceit that have to be peeled away one by one. She may be of some use, even if she has not attained full understanding of Pakistaniyat. You have to go step by step, Rome was not built in a day.

Supposedly Salmaan Taseer used to pay attention to Indian achievements and tell the young ones around him to achieve like the Indians. I don't know that it necessarily translates into not hating India, but it adds a layer of complexity.

x-post
A new story/spin on how OBL was taken out:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... b-ali.html

It occurred to me - why weren't there any TTP or other attacks on Kakul/Abbottabad? Perhaps because any such would have caused a security sweep in which it would have been hard to shield OBL? If we find other significant military establishments that haven't been attacked, would it mean that other "assets" are hiding there?

>>I think she was WKK , until she got close hand look at RAPE, the son while growing up got to see Rape for what they are.

Tavleen Singh was never what you would call a WKK strictly speaking in the Kuldip Nayyar mould. Her articles on various occasions confirm that. Her father was though it seems, and he was an army officer, but the gentle man had his reasons - although I don't know if he actually went to the border with a candle himself. They are refugees. One must avoid underestimating the subjective experience, and one can rarely, if ever, resolve to stand in judgement (so to speak) about the human motives of those with such complex experiences as of the people who directly experienced partition.

On a practical level, we can wait for them to die out. The impulse to light candles at the border will flicker out with them.

(A. Roy, Navlakha, Setalwad and so on are a different sort of beast).

A_Gupta - yes, certainly Salman was a complex man. An intelligent one. But an insufficient man, unable to summon the moral courage to acknowledge or (for a long time) to even accept his son born out of wedlock. Not because it was problematic culturally (they family eventually took him in and treated him reasonably well it seems), but because it was difficult politically. One might say that a lot many men would take the same route. Perhaps, but these are the sort of men who will also easily ride a wave of hate to political victory if they can, like we all know Zulfiqar Bhutto did; and he was Salman's idol. He wrote a biography of Bhutto, in fact.

I believe, if I remember Aatish's book right, it was when Salman came to India to promote that book that he met Tavleen. It's actually quite an incredible story, almost operatic in its dimensions. My respect to Tavleen though.

I don't know if Aatish was raised as a Muslim. His own book does not suggest that. He has a tattoo of Shiva on his shoulder, which does not mean he was raised with a Hindu sensibility. I suspect that since he was raised in a Sikh family milieu, the overarching influence is from there - and rightly so. What is clear is that his outlook is very Indian in its essence, very human, and like I mentioned before deeply and often painfully honest (even for the reader). And BTW, he has a British passport.

JeM

"I don't know if Aatish was raised as a Muslim."

I know both sides of his 'family' through many layers removed. Though Tavleen's family was very sikh, they were respectful of her independence and didnt want to impose their beliefs on the child - so, to whatever extent they could, they introduced him to his biological father's religion. All around him, the family's male children were being raised in a traditional sikh way, something aatish reminicses about - noticing the difference between him and the cousins, when young.

Taseer's boys were all archtypical Rapes right from childhood - always rich, always flaunting it and contemptous of everyone beneath their percieved social status. Insufferable bullies in school.

Clearly, Aatish gets his genetic advantages form his mum's side - he is thoughtful and insightful and has retained his deeply indic nature through his physical and intellectual journeys via the badlands.

Sirmed is naive at best and psycho at worst. One hand she is wajb e cattle even for moderated rapes on the other hand she embarrasses Indians, who can clap but also can clearly see the folly, so no hurrah!!!

Added later: Also can we stop discussing Paki Moderates / leftists...? There is no such thing.

A_Gupta wrote:x-post
A new story/spin on how OBL was taken out:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... b-ali.html

It occurred to me - why weren't there any TTP or other attacks on Kakul/Abbottabad? Perhaps because any such would have caused a security sweep in which it would have been hard to shield OBL? If we find other significant military establishments that haven't been attacked, would it mean that other "assets" are hiding there?

I would believe that that was true for Kakul/Abbottabad. That could also be true for a few other sites. But, Pakistan has a large number of defence sites spread all over the country that it would be impossible for the TTP/Punjabi Taliban to target all of them. Besides, if and when some dialogues break down as it happened at Karachi, the particular site might be targetted. Nuclear-weapon & missile related sites might be the very last to be targetted and would be done so only when everything else was already in place. Until such time, Pakistan might paint this to the rest of the world as effective military control of their crown jewels which is simply rubbish. However, it would be a quick collapse of the state when that happens.

Sri wrote:Sirmed is naive at best and psycho at worst. One hand she is wajb e cattle even for moderated rapes on the other hand she embarrasses Indians, who can clap but also can clearly see the folly, so no hurrah!!!

Unfortunately for her, the company that she keeps, namely Pakistan, makes us feel that she also has that 'inner Pakistaniyat' that she has so far not displayed or carefully masked. It is the curse of any Pakistani, and for very valid and good reasons too. They are totally guilty unless proven innocent.

SS Sir, I think she does all this not because she thinks India is great or that she cares about Pakistan. She belongs to a diffrent breed of people, who just enjoy taking extremely opposite position to piss people off and hence get attention. She is basically an attention seeker, period.

You can make such people citizen of Holland (Great social service, extreme left views, you know why) and I bet they will come up newer more lethal ways to get under even their skin

Subodh,

Aha... now we have more details. Thanks for the input.

"Taseer's boys were all archtypical Rapes right from childhood - always rich, always flaunting it and contemptous of everyone beneath their percieved social status. Insufferable bullies in school."

Not in the least bit surprising. The chap who was kidnapped was taken from a Mercedes SLK, as one of the pictures suggests. Not that that in itself is wrong. It's a nice car. But your comment above fits with the general comments from the book by Aatish.

BTW, how many times did Salman marry? Twice or thrice? I got the impression he was married (to the first one) before he met Tavleen, then subsequently to a second one, and then eventually to a third one by the time Aatish was older...

Sri wrote:She belongs to a different breed of people, who just enjoy taking extremely opposite position to piss people off and hence get attention. She is basically an attention seeker, period.

Sri, she might well be. We will watch her closely over time. She has just emerged.

For your viewing pleasure....

Marvi Sirmed and Zaid Hamid debating .....

http://PakistanHerald.com/Program/War-o ... asood-7926

JeM

Yes, the first two - 3 kids each, the last one (the third) more recent.

From what I heard fifth hand, like many other Rape men (Imran in particular) - he used to brag about his frequent 'conquests' of Indian women (subtxt being - hindoo or sikh, etc) - Tavleen, Simi Grewal, etc.

A truely vile, despicable person, the personification of the Paki elite, who used and was used by the West to prop this monstrosity next door.

Pakistan bans encryption software

In an effort to ramp up the monitoring of internet security, Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) has directed all ISPs to prevent internet users from using technology that would allow them to privately browse the internet. This was stated in a PTA notice provided to The Express Tribune by a source at an Islamabad-based internet service provider (ISP).

JeM

re 'how many marraiges' - not so fast I am being told on double checking!

It may be only 2 - Amana is 'officially' the second wife and the mother of 3 of the 6 official kids.

Sorry about that.

JEM, thanks, and yes, I agree. A rash outbreak of rational thinking in that satanland is the last thing that we need to see....

Sri wrote:For your viewing pleasure....

Marvi Sirmed and Zaid Hamid debating .....

http://PakistanHerald.com/Program/War-o ... asood-7926

Why are they blanking out some words with that high pitch noise?

Salmon Miyan was aware of the fact that Poaqs were on loosing side in competition with Indians . Superiority myths of them being "better" in every aspect since 47 have been shattered one by one and climb down must have pained him. No better way to exhort aam Abdul than mentioning Kaffir Indians getting way ahead of them.

Lt. Commander Pakistan Navy Nasir Ahmad shot dead in Karachi.


Twitter Akchishti

Lt. Commander Nasir's dead? Please confirm? He was part of the investigation team of PNS Mehran.

There's really something spooky about the whole Karachi Naval Bases. There had been over 08 attacks on Naval installations in KHI alone.

Nasir Nafees is someone who had been active in investigations against al-Queda suspects and had been instrumental. He was my source.