bala wrote:Jay, The Deep state are usually non-state actors with powerful financial clout (not listed in usual wealthy people lists).
Bala ji, I kind of agree with you on these below points and only these.
The China tango happened during Nixon/Kissinger era. During Reagan era and George Bush Sr era it deepened. Bush Jr furthered his father's policies. economic pillar is symbiotic and heavily mutually dependent.
The rest of the stuff you quoted lacks anything to back up with, or in some cases there is public evidence to the contrary. I'm mostly doing this for my understanding, so please bare with me if I'm being obtuse, I assure you I'm not arguing for the arguments sake.
The Deep state are usually non-state actors with powerful financial clout. They include a network of people with state actors. Currently Blinken and Nuland are part of this deep state. (not listed in usual wealthy people lists).
This definition seem to be neither here nor there. If they are usually non state actors then how come people like Blinken, and Nulund, along with organizations like CIA are heavily quoted as "DEEP STATE"? I mean, Blinken and Nulund are exact opposite of "non-state actors". They are in fact poster Childs of state actors. What Blinken, and Nulund have in common is they subscribe to the policy of US's global intervention and conflict to keep US as the sole Superpower. Is that what makes them "deep state" in your eyes?
All of the worldwide color revolutions are financed by them.
Are you saying that there is one universal "deep state" tasked for the entire world which makes these revolutions happen or is there a "deep state" for every country? What about the direct regime changes financed and undertaken by US then, were then done by US government or US deep state? Let's take Ukraine for example. US government officials, including then US foreign secretary hillary, is under record saying US is trying to get a friendly government in Ukraine and they are working towards it. Does that make this Ukrainian saga a US sponsored regime change exercise, or a deep state sponsored exercise?
Deep State" existed during the British Raj rule of India which is a totally different topic.
I agree, its a different topic but I have to ask. If the "deep state" existed during British raj, beginning in the 1850's then are US Civil war, 1917 soviet revolution, WW1, WW2 products of this deep state?
The China tango happened during Nixon/Kissinger era. Behind the scenes were the "Deep State" enabling this tango.
Who is the deep state here? The US govt wanted it at that time. It comprised of the security establishment which was eager to get China on its side, and against the Russians, especially after the Sino-Russian conflict. The US commerce structure wanted it as they saw China's billion people as new customers. US companies worked hand in hand with US government to make this happen. Politicians wanted it because they say approval from all US sectors and this would be a political win for them. So in this case who constitutes "deep state" and what did they exactly enable?
Clinton era saw the blatant exchange of critical rocket technology to China.
I agree that Clinton, and US in that era was pretty short sighted in how they dealt with China in the 90's. What you forget is this is after the cold war ended, and 90's saw global peace, unprecedented economic prospects and an overwhelming majority of NATO and non NATO countries alike started cutting their defense budgets. US saw it's role with China with rose tinted glasses and US security establishment was winding down the security posture after decades of tensions with communist bloc. During this time, US telecom companies started looking at China for cheap satellite launches because NASA was dealing with huge budget cuts. This is the context in which US or Clinton admin OK'd this move and it was not of rocket technologies. Below is the quote. Below is the direct quote from clinton, as US president to the congress on what this is. Critical, sure. But nothing breathtaking.
Mr. Clinton said that he had approved the export of satellite fuel and explosive bolts, which eject the satellite from its launch vehicle.
Bush Jr furthered his father's policies, remember his father was China veteran.
Bush jr ignored China because his administration stupidly got mired in the middle east regime change. Between 2001-2012, US hardly had any bandwidth to address the coming China problem because of their military boondoggle which is of their own creation. By the way, Bush SR is hardly a China veteran.
The only president who really opposed China was Trump
Undoubtedly, Trump is the one who made the most political noise about US's trade imbalance with China. Like most things with him, he is also one of the few presidents who benefited from China. Over the years, he highlighted US's dependence on china for manufacturing, while turning a blind eye towards China's expansionist policies. Trump is a classic Isolationists when it came to non-entanglement in international affairs, but a nationalist in economic policies. For example, he enabled North Korea and China by extension, to the detriment of South Korea, and Japan. I will definitely give him credit for bringing anti-china rhetoric to the surface.
The rest of US Presidents paid lip service. Only the military angle is heightened nowadays.
Yes, and No and not because past US presidents did not had balls to be belligerent. Times back then are not the same as now. No one should expect presidents ranging from Nixon to Bush SR to not work with the Chinese because cold war was the priority. For presidents in the 90's, it was the specter of economic gains, which US corporations saw steadily climb up. More than a decade after that was lost to the middle east. It's only after 2010 it was becoming apparent to US establishment that China will be the threat. Now, this current administration has started clamping down on China in an unprecedented way, both militarily and economically. I think this trend is irreversible going forward.
I completely discount any verbiage emitted nowadays from the establishment.
It's your prerogative, bala ji.
Understanding the deep state takes a nuanced view of things since there is no deep media analysis, facts are hard to nail since they cover themselves up very well, since there are experts involved.
With that said, what you are saying is since media does not understand what deep state is, anything one comes across in the media will lack facts/analysis, hence it's all bunk. I strongly disagree with this line. This is the same argument which some people use to conveniently hand wave and gloss over analysis, facts, and opinions that does not confirm to one's pre-determined notions. Since, by your own definition the notion of deep state is not apparently visible, what proof does any one even have that such a "entity" even exist, and running the global policy?
Did you know that until 1968 the IB of India reported to MI of England?[
I absolutely did not know that. Can this be verified with a source?