Intelligence & National Security Discussion

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ASPuar
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

Rahul M wrote:
Notable directly recruited RAS officers include P. Vijay Kumar, who was Special Secretary in the RAW (A secretary level post in the Cabinet Secretariat), and recently lost out on the race to become Secretary, R, to the present incumbent.
recruited from ? what did he do before that ?
He is now an Advisor with another agency.
which ?
Well, as I dont personally know him, it is a little difficult for me to answer your queries. Everything I have written is from open sources.

Open sources say that he was recruited directly. And as I understand it, that probably means that the agency interviewed him (as a civilian), and he was, I suppose deemed fit for recruitment and training.

The safe answer is, that I dont know what he did before that. Going by the fact that he joined the service in 1973, and is still under retirement age (60), he was 21 or 22 or 23 when he joined. So Im guessing it could be anything from going to college, to er... I dont know... anything else?

Before the present chief took over, he was tipped to become Secy R, and this was made a big deal of, because apparently he is the first "Direct recruit" candidate, who was in the running for the post.
Last edited by ASPuar on 17 Jan 2010 01:57, edited 2 times in total.
Rahul M
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

:lol:
ok, I thought this was public info. thanks anyway.
ASPuar
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

Rahul M wrote::lol:
ok, I thought this was public info. thanks anyway.
It is, but the details of his prior career are not. I dont think intelligence folks like to make too big a deal of their careers in the public domain.

http://www.kashmirtimes.com/archive/090 ... /news6.htm
(Scroll down the page a bit)

http://sify.com/news/race-for-raw-chief ... iifbd.html

http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader- ... 16933.html
(A repost of a COVERT mag article)

http://www.thehindu.com/2009/02/18/stor ... 751000.htm

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/k-c-v ... ef/414989/
(Read both pages)

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090126/j ... 440707.jsp

http://www.unitednews.in/verma.htm
(A somewhat sensationalist site, but anyway)

http://www.asianage.com/presentation/co ... -deal.aspx

http://www.kashmirtimes.com/archive/090 ... /news6.htm
(Mentions that PV Kumar would become the first RAS cadre officer to head the agency. Of course the others were also RAS, but I guess this means that he was the first directly recruited officer).
animesharma
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by animesharma »

Don't divide NSA's post: Narayanan

**Seems like i messed up big time.Never to drink and drive. :| .However i assure you, this was not intentional,just that i had also blocked The real article in firewall.. am glad its sunday!
Last edited by animesharma on 17 Jan 2010 12:01, edited 2 times in total.
RoyG
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by RoyG »

^^Um what's up with the link? lol
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by pgbhat »

:rotfl:
please do not click the above link in office, in front of SHQ/GHQ. :mrgreen:
I got to report the post sorry no offense.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Akshut »

:shock:

exoticman4u engaged in multi-tasking?? sshh!! :mrgreen:
Gagan
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Gagan »

BUSTED:
archanulla wrote:animesh ji, BRF and that site don't quite go together. This is why it is impotent to check what you wrote in every post, as some typos can be hilarious.
:rotfl: :oops: :rotfl:
RoyG
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by RoyG »

Akshut wrote::shock:

exoticman4u engaged in multi-tasking?? sshh!! :mrgreen:
:rotfl:

Would you like some dating tips Mr Sharma?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

Appraisal of Mr. Narayanan's stint as NSA
Muppalla wrote:India matters, not America by Kanchan Gupta

As National Security Adviser MK Narayanan prepares to exit the Prime Minister’s Office and spend the coming years in the splendid isolation of a Raj Bhavan, it would be appropriate to review his tenure as Mr Manmohan Singh’s top aide. Given his unimpeachable loyalty to the first family of the Congress if not to the party (it would be facetious to suggest that one is concomitant to the other) it did not surprise anybody when he was inducted into the PMO after the UPA came to power. Nor was it surprising that his initial assignment was that of Internal Security Adviser. Having served as Director of Intelligence Bureau (when Rajiv Gandhi was Prime Minister) and a ‘National Security Adviser’ of sorts to VP Singh during his brief stint in office, he was a natural choice for the job. Known as a ‘tough-though-thinking cop’, apart from excelling at gathering ‘political intelligence’, his presence in the PMO, it was felt, would be a perfect counterfoil to the soft approach of the Government to issues linked to internal security as well as help shore up a regime dependent on unreliable allies by working the back channels with parties like the DMK.

There was a problem, though. JN Dixit, who was appointed National Security Adviser to the Prime Minister, saw his role as not being dissimilar to that played by his predecessor, Mr Brajesh Mishra, who handled both external and internal security-related issues loosely structured within the matrix of strategic affairs. The Director of IB, the Secretary heading Research & Analysis Wing, those handling Military Intelligence, the Joint Intelligence Committee, the Scientific Adviser, the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission (who is also Secretary of the Department of Atomic Energy), the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary would directly brief Mr Mishra who, in turn, would brief Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Mr LK Advani wasn’t too happy with the arrangement and was definitely displeased about the Home Secretary hopping across from North Block to South Block to keep Mr Mishra posted, but there was little that he (or for that matter the Raksha Mantri and the Videsh Mantri) could do about it. Mr Mishra was the foreign policy czar (he was appointed special representative for crucial talks with several countries, including Pakistan, China, Russia and France and had over-riding authority), the initiator of strategic dialogue with the US, and the chief operational intelligence coordinator. All this apart from his responsibilities as Principal Secretary, which involved inter-Ministry coordination and routine administrative duties as chief of the PMO staff. That Mr Vajpayee never had any reason to complain is an abiding tribute to Mr Mishra’s amazing abilities.

Mr Singh (or was it someone else?) decided not to vest any one person with so much responsibility. Mr TKA Nair was appointed Principal Secretary, a job which the veteran bureaucrat with an impeccable record still holds. But it remains unclear whether an effort was made to delineate the task of the National Security Adviser from that of the Internal Security Adviser. What is known is that Dixit, held in awe by the Foreign Office and feared by India’s neighbourhood, was never too sure about his remit. Dixit may have been a grand strategist, but he was a poor tactician. On the other hand, Mr Narayanan, confident of his political backing, tactically exploited the situation to his advantage, appropriating for himself virtually every segment of the national security matrix and more. With Mr Shivraj Patil as Minister for Home Affairs, he met with no resistance: All pink note-sheets would land on his desk before they were read by anybody else.

The brewing conflict between Dixit and Mr Narayanan was resolved in the most unexpected and tragic manner. Dixit, popularly known as Mani, died on January 3, 2005, barely seven months after the UPA came to power. Mr Singh, hesitant to replicate his experiment, promptly anointed Mr Narayanan National Security Adviser and since then he has held the post, minding both external and internal security issues and strategic affairs. In between deciding who gets to head IB and R&AW (usually favourites from the Kerala cadre of the IPS), he also ran political errands, for instance coercing Panthers Party chief Bhim Singh to vote for the Congress-led Government and convincing DMK supremo M Karunanidhi not to push the envelope too far on India refusing to come to the LTTE’s rescue.

Meanwhile, the national security situation deteriorated rapidly with terrorists striking with impunity across the country, extracting a terrible toll of human lives and shaking confidence in the Government’s ability to protect the country’s citizens from jihadi marauders. The Maoist menace at home and the mess in Nepal bear further testimony to his sterling abilities. Mr Narayanan was clearly out of his depth in the vastly changed security scenario, though it is claimed he played a crucial role in finalising the India-US civilian nuclear cooperation agreement which, lest we forget, is yet to become ‘operational’.

Despite all this and a lot more, it would have been an uninterrupted run for Mr Narayanan had nemesis not struck by way of the November 26, 2008 fidayeen attacks on multiple targets in Mumbai and the resultant outrage followed by the sacking of Mr Patil. Both the National Security Adviser and the Home Minister should have been unceremoniously dumped after the July 11, 2006 Mumbai commuter train bombings in which more people were killed than in the carnage two years later. But then, 26/11 was telecast live while 11/7 wasn’t; more than 200 Indian commuters died in the first attack and six Americans were among the 166 who perished in the second massacre. So, Mr Patil made an ignominious exit, Mr P Chidambaram took charge as Home Minister and Mr Narayanan found his remit severely curtailed. Over the past year, national security has been the preserve of the Ministry of Home Affairs and Mr Chidambaram has done a commendable job.

We are now told that the Government proposes to have two separate Security Advisers — one for homeland security and the other for external security. That’s an excellent proposal and merits immediate implementation. If that happens — and it’s a very big ‘if’ — the defunct National Security Council (when was the last time it met to discuss strategic security, political, economic and energy concerns?), the Strategic Policy Group (comprising babus not known for coming up with scintillating ideas) and the Joint Intelligence Committee should be immediately disbanded. Structures of the past cannot meet challenges of the future. We need a brand new system with the right people for whom India matters more than America, not loyal bureaucrats who will blindly do the Prime Minister’s bidding.

I wish they had also looked at his role in the nuke deal negotiations.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by somnath »

^^^ About "direct recruitment" to RAW, there was (at least was) a system whereby RAW recruited directly from the campuses..Especially JNU's School of Languages (JNU has an extensive infra of foreign languages)..Also selectively from the IITs as well..These days its mostly "transfers" from other services it seems..

There isnt anything fundamentally wrong about deputationists. In fact as B Raman mentions in his "Kaoboys", the idea was to have a multi-disciplinary force. Deputations are one way of attracting people from super specialist areas - for example, a K Santhanam on a niche area (for India) like nuke proliferation..problems arise when the force starts becoming predominantly deputationist, because no organisation can survive without a strong permanent cadre..

The bigger structrual issues though always get sidelined in the headlines for a new incumbent for a position..

The biggest issue that all intel agencies in the world are grappling with is HUMINT..Even according to an (otherwise) cynic like Gen VK Singh, RAW's techint capabilities are quite considerable, the challenge is with adequate HUMINT....the KS committee had suggested a massive increase in the capacity of all intel agencies..That went unheeded till 26/11, when some augmentation of IB was ordered..RAW's challenges on language specialists in Dari and Pushto were well documented after IC814..Lack of muslim representation in the force (RAW as well as IB) was another weak area, identified by people as varied as Gary SAxena, B Raman, Moloy Dhar..

By most accounts by now, RAW had fairly good intel through comint on the 26/11 attackers till the time they boarded the Indian trawler by killing the crew and shut off their comms..That info was passed on to the Navy, but lack of the "last mile" intel, which typically would be some variant of HUMINT, meant that the attackers landed without being intercepted..

The turf grab symptomatic of Delhi babudom and the Delhi press coverage masks the real issues..

Coordination of intel is vitally important, but even more important is generation of hard intel and a capacity to "analyse"..RAW needs a massive increase in its capacity to do both, irrespective of (right now) whose turf it falls under -That is quite a meaningless exercise..
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by somnath »

^^^Kanchan Gupta is a fourth rate journalist with no understanding of security issues barring usual right wing rants..
Dixit may have been a grand strategist, but he was a poor tactician.


The NSA is not supposed to be a tactician..He is in fact supposed to be a grand strategist, whatever that means, in the scheme of things..the problems with MKN was actually that he tried to be hands on on too many things..The NSA's secretariat, NSCS, is precisely tasked with the sort of setup for grand stategies that Kanchan Gupta advocates winding down of later in the article!!

He commends PC for bringing all intel under the MoH - where it has been nothing but a turf grab attempt..

Ordinary columnists like him and the Delhi commentariat are too enamoured of sliver bullet solutions..There arent any unfortunaetly, and no individual (not even BR favourites like Ajit Doval and G Prathasarthy) would be a panacea..Structural challenges, starting all the way down from police reforms and upto puttign the right org struccture for higher level intel need to be addressed..
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by somnath »

ASPuar wrote:As I understand it, until 2007 or 2008, anyone joining the R&AW from Civil or Defence services had to quit his prior service, and join RAS permanently. However, since then, a new scheme has been introduced, whereby IPS officers (only IPS officers), can join as deputationists, and leave whenever they want.
Well, actually there are deputationists from other services as well, primarily from the armed forces..There are quite a few from all three services, going all the way up to the Military Advisor (or some equivalent, I forget the exact rank) to the Secretary (R)..Its typically a Maj Gen level position..

But IPS officers use the deputation far more extensively, that is true..

One interesting nugget from Gen VK Singh's book - typically, officers from the forces who join RAW early (Cap/Major) and get absorbed do not use their ranks - RS "Billy" Bedi is one of them...
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

^^
rabinder singh was ex-IA too.

ASPuar sahab, thanks for the reading list. found a couple of snippets I haven't come across before.
ASPuar
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

somnath wrote: One interesting nugget from Gen VK Singh's book - typically, officers from the forces who join RAW early (Cap/Major) and get absorbed do not use their ranks - RS "Billy" Bedi is one of them...
For the following reasons:

1. It is customary for released officers below a certain rank not to use their ranks in civil life (Eg: MP's and ministers like Jaswant Singh, etc dont use their ranks, but MP's like Col. Sona Ram/General Khanduri etc do).

2. The use of such ranks by a diplomat will immediately alert anyone looking for it, that the person concerned is an intelligence operative.

3. Even when they are not in diplomatic posts, there are lots of people scanning the civil and other gazettes here, and if they see someone using a rank here, but not abroad, they will immediately put two and two together.
ASPuar
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

somnath wrote:^^^Kanchan Gupta is a fourth rate journalist with no understanding of security issues barring usual right wing rants..
Im not sure what you mean by "Right Wing".

In my experience, it is a term generally used (along with "fascist"/"fundamentalist"/"extremist") by leftists/self proclaimed "liberals" to denigrate/dismiss anyone who doesnt agree with them.

Im sure this Gupta might be wrong in his analysis, indeed there are even areas where I know he is... but...?
ASPuar
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

somnath wrote:^^^ About "direct recruitment" to RAW, there was (at least was) a system whereby RAW recruited directly from the campuses..Especially JNU's School of Languages (JNU has an extensive infra of foreign languages)..Also selectively from the IITs as well..These days its mostly "transfers" from other services it seems..

There isnt anything fundamentally wrong about deputationists. In fact as B Raman mentions in his "Kaoboys", the idea was to have a multi-disciplinary force. Deputations are one way of attracting people from super specialist areas - for example, a K Santhanam on a niche area (for India) like nuke proliferation..problems arise when the force starts becoming predominantly deputationist, because no organisation can survive without a strong permanent cadre..

The bigger structrual issues though always get sidelined in the headlines for a new incumbent for a position..

The biggest issue that all intel agencies in the world are grappling with is HUMINT..Even according to an (otherwise) cynic like Gen VK Singh, RAW's techint capabilities are quite considerable, the challenge is with adequate HUMINT....the KS committee had suggested a massive increase in the capacity of all intel agencies..That went unheeded till 26/11, when some augmentation of IB was ordered..RAW's challenges on language specialists in Dari and Pushto were well documented after IC814..Lack of muslim representation in the force (RAW as well as IB) was another weak area, identified by people as varied as Gary SAxena, B Raman, Moloy Dhar..

By most accounts by now, RAW had fairly good intel through comint on the 26/11 attackers till the time they boarded the Indian trawler by killing the crew and shut off their comms..That info was passed on to the Navy, but lack of the "last mile" intel, which typically would be some variant of HUMINT, meant that the attackers landed without being intercepted..

The turf grab symptomatic of Delhi babudom and the Delhi press coverage masks the real issues..

Coordination of intel is vitally important, but even more important is generation of hard intel and a capacity to "analyse"..RAW needs a massive increase in its capacity to do both, irrespective of (right now) whose turf it falls under -That is quite a meaningless exercise..
The problem with deputationists, who are on a "tenure" basis, is, that they come from a completely different culture than the RAW. The mixed org that B Raman speaks of, consists of permanently absorbed cadres, and not of part timers, coming to the center for 5 years, and heading back to their state cadres.

Agree with your point about a strong permanent cadre.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by RayC »

There is no doubt that a permanent cadre would build the camaraderie and cohesiveness that is essential for any organisation to function than have fly by night operators.
somnath
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by somnath »

^^^ Selective deputation is not bad at all, in fact it is sine qua non in all intel agencies - incl CIA, Mossad etc..K Santhanam was on deputation, he was hardly a "fly by night operator" - in his area there will be very very few "experts" in the country, and nearly everyone would be probably working for the nuclear establishment..Similarly, the number of China experts, someone conversant with the entire gamut of the Chinese "domain" will be handful, many of them in the foreign policy establishment..

ASPuar, the reason for my irritation with Kanchan Gupta is that he had one objective in his article, ie to denigrate MKN, and used the veneer of an analysis on the national security apparatus, of which he understands precious little...This sort of analysis gets us absolutely nowhere..
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

^^^

Well, thats journalism. Sometimes wah wah, and some times juttis. Most of the time inaccurate.

As to selective deputation, the operative phrase is "Selective". Well qualified individuals, certainly. People of high caliber, of course. But turning it into just another posting for Jt Secy level officers who've never been in intel work, and would probably endanger resources, naturally not.

I think we all agree here. Noone is saying no deputation should happen. But recent rules changes that are apparently designed to turn deputation into a de rigeur situation, seem ill advised.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Avinash R »

Key ministry officials asked not to use Blackberry for emails
New Delhi, January 17, 2010

The National Technical and Research Organisation has advised the officials of all ministries, especially the Defence, External, Home and the PMO to forego the use of Blackberry for official purposes.

Against the backdrop of concerns over hacking of crucial official websites, central security agencies have again warned the government about the use of multi-tasking blackberry instruments by some of the officials working in sensitive ministries including the Prime Minister’s office.

Agencies have also cautioned against the practice of connecting official computers and laptops with unsecured internet connections by some bureaucrats thus compromising security.

With hackers mainly from China very active and having penetrated deep into the cyber space, the security agencies had asked all ministries especially the Defence, External, Home and the PMO to separate their official computers with those used for internet connection.

The recommendations of the central security agencies seem to have gone unheeded. An official maintained that their suggestion was only recommendatory in nature. The National Technical and Research Organisation (NTRO) also circulated the Do’s and Don’ts to key ministries recently after attempts from hackers were noticed.

A quick random check was carried out during which it was found that some of the officials in the Prime Minister’s Office were using Blackberry services and had linked their official emails on the handset, which is not allowed.

A PMO official said there were routine attempts to hack various systems. The PMO has its own system in place to protect against such attempts, the official said, adding, there has been no security breach.

Intense negotiations were held prior to the starting the Blackberry services in India and finally the Department of Telecom in 2008 decided to side-step the opposition of the intelligence agencies and permit the services, being operated by Canadian-firm Research-In-Motion (RIM).

Another problem dogging the cyber space in the country was constant use of official computers by the officials in key ministries despite a warning from security agencies not to link them with the internet.

Security of many of the computers in the Ministry of External Affairs and its Missions abroad was compromised with forcing a security audit of the machines and segregating the virus-affected ones out of the system.

The Ministry of Home Affairs has a separate server for its computers and there have been no attempts to hack its system since it has another server with internet facility. A surprise check of all the computers was being carried at regular intervals.

The National Informatics Centre, the organisation responsible for maintaining government servers and providing internet and intranet facilities to various key ministries, had also faced hacking problem. According to a Canadian firm SecDev Group, which investigated the hacking of the Dalai Lama's computer in late 2008, as many as 12 computers of NIC had been affected by the Chinese hackers.

The group also surprised the government when it mentioned that computers in nine Indian Missions abroad which included key countries like the US and the UK had been affected by the Chinese hackers.

Giving details, the report said the GhostNet system directs infected computers to download a Trojan, known as ghost RAT, which allows attackers to gain complete, real-time control. These instances of ghost RAT are consistently controlled from commercial internet access accounts located on the island of Hainan, People's Republic of China.

"Our investigation reveals that GhostNet is capable of taking full control of infected computers, including searching and downloading specific files, and covertly operating attached devices, including microphones and web cameras.

“China is actively developing an operational capacity in cyberspace, correctly identifying it as the domain in which it can achieve strategic parity, if not superiority, over the military establishments of the United States and its allies.

“Chinese cyber warfare doctrine is well developed, and significant resources have been invested by the People's Liberation Army and security services in developing defensive and offensive capabilities," the report said.

According to them, an email message arrives in the target's inbox carrying the malware in an attachment or web link. The attackers' objective is to get the target to open the attachment or malicious link so that the malicious code can be executed, it said.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sunny y »

Hi.....Something interesting here...Sorry if posted earlier....

A Social networking site for US intelligence community to analyse info..

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/09/0 ... index.html

More on it...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Space

Thanks
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Surya »

wow - mark the calendar - we have near unanimous consensous on BRF on something :eek:
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by pgbhat »

sunny y wrote:Hi.....Something interesting here...Sorry if posted earlier....

A Social networking site for US intelligence community to analyse info..

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/09/0 ... index.html

More on it...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Space

Thanks
Very neat. Will help cut through bureaucratic red tape if some one wants to share info, as well as opinions and analysis. 8)
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anujan »

Recently I have been seeing a spate of Ex-servicemen/Intelligence officials in places like twitter. Who's who of India is there.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Surya »

anujan

example?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by pgbhat »

Anujan
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anujan »

^

http://twitter.com/rwac48 Lt Gen H S Panag(R)
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

Anujan wrote:^

http://twitter.com/rwac48 Lt Gen H S Panag(R)
pg, anujan, could you guys posts this in the defence blogs thread ? in the appropriate format ?
thx.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

RahulM, I would suggest having a twitter watch without comments thread to follow eminent personalities. The idea is to capture significant tweets from them to give heads-up and reactions to events.

Tharoor's tweets might not make the grade! 8)
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

ramana wrote:RahulM, I would suggest having a twitter watch without comments thread to follow eminent personalities. The idea is to capture significant tweets from them to give heads-up and reactions to events.

Tharoor's tweets might not make the grade! 8)
this thread is intended to do the very same, links without comments.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=3&t=4852

I'll add tweeter to the topic title.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

While I wasn't too happy with MKN's time as NSA, I do not like this idea of splitting the internal Security and Intelligence task from the NSA's ambit. Its the fusion of intelligence inputs and policy advice that is the hallmark of the job.

Looks like MKN is being sacrificed to preserve PC's future marquee value.

SOURCE
Why was Narayanan ousted?

Manan Kumar
First Published : 19 Jan 2010 01:29:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 19 Jan 2010 08:53:59 AM IST

NEW DELHI: The abrupt ouster of M K Narayanan from the powerful post of National Security Adviser has, it seems, more to it than just the sharp differences which emerged during his day-to-day functioning with Union Home Minister P Chidambaram.

There are three reasons to which sources attribute Narayan’s being shunted out to West Bengal as Governor.

The first is that he goofed up on the Telangana issue, misreading the spread of the agitation and drawing Chidambaram to commit a blunder by announcing initiation of the process for the formation of Telangana. :eek: The sources said Narayanan relied a bit too much on the judgement of a senior IB man who was sent from New Delhi to AP to gauge the situation, as analysis later revealed that the agitation could have been dealt with at the state level despite TRS chief K Chandrasekhara Rao’s fast unto death.

The second reason has to do with the approach taken with Pakistan after 26/11. While Narayanan was adamant about not having a dialogue with Pakistan unless there was substantial progress on the 26/11 probe, the political view within the government, especially because of US pressure, was to engage Pakistan and get on with the peace process. :((

The differences became more obvious when the government moved on with its agenda and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh signed the joint statement at Sharm el-Sheikh.

Finally, Narayanan was dead against Chidambaram’s idea of an over-reaching National Counter Terrorism Centre that would bring the National Technical Research Organisation, Joint Intelligence Committee, Aviation Research Centre and RAW under its command. The move would have clipped Narayanan’s wings as he had a major say in the functioning of these agencies.
Its not a question of clipping MKN for he is not bird but a eagle. He has served the nation i is long years of service. Its a question of putting blinders of terrorism which will limit the peripheral vision. India has other challenges than Paki based terrorism.


I take back my calling him Neroynan. Sorry sir.
sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

The convent school boy who turned terror commander
On Monday, police in Hyderabad finally held the man they knew by the aliases Amjad and Saif — the fruit of an elaborate, Intelligence Bureau-led deception operation that led Khwaja to believe he was returning home from Karachi to help sympathisers mount a major new operation.
:twisted:
Great job, IB.

Wish i was in IB HQ when the guys who mounted this op were giving hi-fi's to each other after the bakra walked into the trap.
Nikhil T
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Nikhil T »

NDTV's debate on role of the new NSA

A jingo's dream panel:
Brajesh Mishra
Ajit Doval,
B Raman
Vir Sanghvi

with Barkha Dutt.
ASPuar
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 474408.cms

Narayanan's exit gives full control of internal security to Chidambaram


NEW DELHI: The exit of M K Narayanan as national security advisor has set the stage for a significant re-ordering of UPA-2's power structure with home minister P Chidambaram set to gain fuller control of internal security reducing the role of the next NSA to foreign policy.

Chidambaram's emergence as the sole "boss" of internal security may end a certain duality that saw agencies caught between the home ministry and NSA in taking their cues. It will swiftly complete the process of the home ministry regaining the autonomy that it had lost to NSA before Chidambaram stepped in the home ministry.

There are doubts whether PM will like to take in somebody as internal security advisor -- Narayanan's original brief -- but even if he does, the role would be restricted to coordination rather than that of a policy innovator.

The new NSA -- former foreign secretary Shiv Shankar Menon is the frontrunner -- would be looking at a leaner brief. To what extent PMO would still act as a check on internal security will now depend on PM and the Congress leadership.

Not all see this process as a diminution of PMO's powers, even if some feel the need for an effective oversight for the home ministry. With Prime Minister Manmohan Singh not too keen on nitty-gritty of internal security, the ball may now clearly lie with Chidambaram on this score. With NSA more engaged with strategic aspects of foreign policy, PMO may drive MEA more intensely than before.

The new order would be a big change. Till last week, before he was named governor of West Bengal, Narayanan presided over an empire encompassing defence, internal security, space, atomic energy, foreign policy and even Jammu and Kashmir affairs. The spread made him the key figure in PMO as the NSA displayed a panache not often associated with career spooks.

He often said he was a cop and lacked the finesse of a diplomat, but this was disingenuous as Narayanan was a skillful power player who could be assertive but knew exactly where the triplines were.

His decisiveness will be missed. Just ahead of Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina's visit earlier this month, Narayanan firmly intervened to approve a joint celebration of Rabindranath Tagore's 150th birth anniversary, shrewdly realising the importance of stressing cultural connections between the two nations. He saw the merit of a $1 billion helpline to Dhaka.

While Narayanan amazed officers with his ability to trawl through every paper to cross his desk, he may have micro-managed too much. But he did pick up clues others missed like an increase in Chinese firms handling hydro projects near the border.

When he took up his assignment as internal security advisor in UPA-1, Narayanan wasn't sure how much time his job would take up. He felt perhaps a couple of days a week would suffice leaving him free to be based in Chennai. Nor did anyone else anticipate the steady accretion of powers in his office. With the PM not displaying any taste for security, it had been largely Narayanan's say in key IB and RAW appointments.

Secretive by nature, he rarely shared plans and drew criticism for not initiating systemic reform of the security apparatus. His rise had earned him detractors, but a sense of surprise over the exit of this adroit mover is yet to ebb.

Just why he fell out of favour -- his move to the Kolkata Raj Bhawan is not seen as voluntary -- is perhaps best explained as a culmination of a gradual process in the aftermath of 26/11 and Chidambaram's move to home. The turf war intensified when UPA-2 came to power and Chidambaram seemed determined to wrest control of internal security functions.

The NSA's brief saw a huge number of files being routed through him. He perhaps chewed off a little too much. There was some discussion over how space and atomic energy would be handled since MoS in PMO Prithviraj Chavan was to oversee these areas.

While 26/11 dimmed his sun, the political feedback to the Congress leadership over an "over-bureaucratised" PMO also made an impact. Narayanan's lines with Congress got hit by some bad static. His clout with 10, Janpath, seen as his appointing authority in the first place, also declined. Too much power was wielded by someone not accountable to the Cabinet or party, it was said.

The PM was seen to have batted for Narayanan when the calls for accountability were shrill after Mumbai, but could not be the cushion when the move was revived last month.

Some feel that Singh may be having mixed feelings about internal security largely being overseen by home as he is more comfortable with foreign policy. At meetings in PMO, Narayanan did have the confidence to speak his mind frankly and Singh heard him out. But the relationship was not as seamless as is sometimes made out. That said, Singh and the PMO are surely going to miss `Mike' and his tiny, scrawling handwriting.
Interesting.

I wonder whether this means that R&AW will gain fuller autonomy, under the new NSA. The point about over bureaucratisation is valid, IMO, even though I feel that the new arrangement is not perhaps the best. PC has a tendency to overdo things, in his zeal to be seen as Super-HM.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by manjgu »

Nikhil T...

i really believe the B Mishra is a moron of the highest order.. i also saw yesterdays discussion on NDTV and while Doval, Raman and Sanghvi converged on the same understanding ( with sanghvi brilliantly summarising the points made) , mishra ji was on some tangent....

for mishra ji the prinicipal secretary in PMO is the one man army who will do everything including the duties of NSA... ! while the remaining gents were arguing for a seperate person dedicated in PMO ( call him what u want) who will collate, analyse and present options to PM on national security. what also came out is that PM is not too keen to devote time to intelligence and national security questions.

as per chidus thinking ( he is working on a discussion paper on reorg)... RAW continues to report to Prin Secy while its CT wing also reports to NCTC and similarly CT wing of IB also reports into NCTC ( while IB continues to report to home ministry).
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

With the PM not displaying any taste for security, it had been largely Narayanan's say in key IB and RAW appointments.
:evil: :evil:

PM not interested in security matters?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Sudip »

PM not interested in security matters?
I think it also means PM not only dis-interested, but PM incapable too
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