Indian Autos Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 May 2010 07:52

I forgot to add the Skoda Laura in same price range. said to be a nice car and selling well . but for around same price you'd get the Jetta
which is likely a better option if you are ok with eurodiesel. not sure how much the truck std diesel used in india affects the NVH of these
eurodiesel engines. a guy in next flats owns a Jetta and from outside the engine noise is noticeable compared to petrol cars.

vina · Post by **vina** » 16 May 2010 09:44

Cruze - unknown quantity. more specced up that altis/civic. doesnt seem to be selling in any huge number. the exterior fitting of plastics
around the doors doesnt seem at the japanese/VW level of smoothness. I havent sat in the interior or test driven it so cannot comment on
that. being a GM, resale value will surely be lower.

Congratulations in being in a umm "situation" where an upgrade is necessary (I am in a similar "situation" too, but dont need to upgrade.. being in a boot strap stage and signing up for a house anyway keeps me out of the market until the revenues start rolling in.. btw, are you moving in to the "Strategic Crossroads" , is it done yet?)

That said, I would look at Cruze very very closely if I were you. By all accounts it is a great package and is actually selling pretty well. And I do think it has an auto transmission as well , in addition to being a common rail diesel and loaded with stuff like sunroof etc, at the price less than the Civic.

Check that out and test drive it before plonking on the Civic. It is petro vs diesel, fully loaded, no scraping Indian roads and is a brand new car launched in multiple markets at the same time.

Foggedabout the overpriced and stripped down Euro crap with earlier gen engines and apology of service and maintenance. Stay away from Skoda and VW. They have terrible service issues and if the initial prices are expensive, the spares and service are shockingly expensive (full euro prices onree, thank you).

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 17 May 2010 08:11

TBHP has a lot of horror stories about the Eurocrap.

Cruze has generated a lot of good press. An uncle have UVA and he is pretty happy about the A.S.S of the dealer in DMA.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 May 2010 08:26

all americans vehicles generally are VFM and work well for the initial few years. then they crap out while the corolla keeps on going.

if the ownership plan is 10 yrs, better run with japanese, if 5 yrs - anything will work. if 2 yrs - even habib sitara is an option

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 May 2010 09:45

all americans vehicles generally are VFM and work well for the initial few years. then they crap out while the corolla keeps on going.

That used to be largely true, but mostly in the US. However, I do think you should not equate the US designed and produced crap from GM and Ford with the products from their European and Korean operations.

By all accounts , Ford Europe's cars are world class as is Opel and GM's DAT , the former Daweoo is great too. The Cruze is a GMDAT vehicle, the parts and spares are imported from Korea (with which India has an auto free trade agreement, so spares will be easily available and reasonably priced). Ford and GM never sold their European/Global cars in the US (largely for H&D reasons and a misplaced belief that US requirments are "unique" and to feed the entrenched lobbies in the US operations..). Now guess what, the latest Ford and GM offerings in US , now that they want to re enter the car buiness and de risk SUVs are from their global operations.

If you want to go Japanese, go Maruti (the SX4 now has an auto option , I think you should seriously consider that, no scraping ANY speed breakers, after all it is a cross over SUV in Europe with a 4 wheel drive option!) . That is the sweet spot where you get Japanese reliability and Indian prices.

Honda/Toyota, the initital costs are high, but have low maintenance. But if something does need repair, you end up paying a bomb. My car, (Mitsu Lancer) is pretty reliable, good.. However, if something needs to be changed/replaced (like a relay/some switch, power window relay, AC fan speed control), each of those will be not less than Rs 4000 + labor (I speak from experience).None of those will leave my car stranded anywhere, but needs to be fixed. Now the rear passenger side power window is acting up (doesnt operate from the driver's master control), hope it is just a loose contact/glitch, I am bracing for the blow before taking it to the dealer.. In a Tata/Maruti/Hyundai, it will be rather far less. So cost benefit wise, it works out.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 May 2010 09:50

Stay away from Beebul's Car at all costs - somehow their tranny quality seems to have gone down pakistan. I busted the tranny in one such creation, a month back - that too brand new shiny car.

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 May 2010 10:12

Stay away from Beebul's Car at all costs - somehow their tranny quality seems to have gone down pakistan. I busted the tranny in one such creation, a month back - that too brand new shiny car.

Bose Babu , can we switch jobs ?. You can do all the "strategee" and get to hob nob with the high powered "Karporate" types and Cee Yukk Soos, while I get to bust up trannys and get high performing cars to their top speeds?.

You can have the air conditioned office of course. I will rough it out in the testing pits.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 May 2010 10:43

Are you sure you want to give up your TFTA strategee position and salary for moi phata abdul jamadar naukri?

And add to that you will have to give up buying aphrodisiac after-shaves since the khota sikkas pitifully earned wont be able to bear that financial burden

The car in question was actually a mule but the observation on their trannies is not limited to that one car - it has been going down a.c.

Mai baap is not even remotely auto-related - its just that the current "research" involves deep collaboration with certain TFTA auto manufacturers and naturally how can one do in-depth research without being cozily ensconced in the subjects' laps?

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 17 May 2010 19:11

Raja Bose wrote:Stay away from Beebul's Car at all costs - somehow their tranny quality seems to have gone down pakistan. I busted the tranny in one such creation, a month back - that too brand new shiny car.

Is that Indica or Volkswagen?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 May 2010 20:22

vina wrote: That said, I would look at Cruze very very closely if I were you. By all accounts it is a great package and is actually selling pretty well. And I do think it has an auto transmission as well , in addition to being a common rail diesel and loaded with stuff like sunroof etc, at the price less than the Civic.

I would avoid GM products in India.

They are mostly daewoo sourced and re badged.

Don't ever touch a korean car when others are available.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 May 2010 21:09

hyundai is decent....but lack good offerings in the high end after verna. they miss out because their i30 and i40 are hatchbacks and nobody wants to pay > 7L for hatchbacks in india when sedans like fiesta and ANHC are available. they need the new elantra urgently here.

SX4 - too small for me (narrow and short). tries to make up for it with height. civic is it, though would have preferred altis for a bit of rough roading to tourist spots. fortunately highways are pretty good these days and places with rough roads (wayanad) offer parking lots @ main road and 4x4 jeeps to cart you and luggage up into the resorts in hills etc. onlee thing I need to avoid is the ooty roads (both bandipur and gudalur road will kill a civic for sure).

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 17 May 2010 21:14

No love for Mitsubishi Cedia? Boys at BHP seem to like it. Pricey?

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 May 2010 21:50

Is that Indica or Volkswagen?

TFTA Bose babu testing Indica ? That cracks me up! In Yindia, Beebul's car, He means Maruti-Suzuki onree Saar!

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 May 2010 21:53

chetak wrote:I would avoid GM products in India.

They are mostly daewoo sourced and re badged.

Don't ever touch a korean car when others are available.

That is EXACTLY why you should buy them. If they were the original American sourced cars, I would urge you to simply run away from them.

Korean cars have come a real long way. Their quality and reliability are nearly right there along with the Japanese.

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 May 2010 21:54

Sriman wrote:No love for Mitsubishi Cedia? Boys at BHP seem to like it. Pricey?

It is 2 generations out dated. Decent car, but doesnt cut the mustard when stacked against the latest Civic/Corolla

tchandr · Post by **tchandr** » 17 May 2010 23:55

http://www.ttnews.com/articles/lmtbase.aspx?storyid=876
M&M pushed the launch of its truck in US to December 2010.

tchandr · Post by **tchandr** » 18 May 2010 00:03

Vina sir, i think its VW. the original peoples car was the beetle. Bose ji, please clarify.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 18 May 2010 00:04

I have the k-series swift zxi. Probably the first batch of swifts having the new series of engine. Now my previous car was a alto lxi, therefore any car would be a 'upgrade'. Maruti had a winner in swift and with the new engine it is just an icing on the cake. My zxi has alll the features of a top end sedan, automatic climatecontrol, abs, oem 2din music system, hieght adjustable seat, keyless entry,alloys, 185 sized tires, 5door lock security, superb a.s.s. network, incredible resale value. In city I get 17+ as fe, fun to drive and it's high way manners are impeccable, I have beeen to mysore twice and enjoyed the vice like grip and confidence inspired by the road manners. I have added extra cushion carpets and the drive is even more comfortable.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 May 2010 00:24

I meant VW. Unfortunately no Mrootti or Indica in the Bay Area. Mrootti would become airborne on the freeway but Indica is a solid car - pitashri owns one of the first ones launched and still going strong.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 18 May 2010 07:26

RB, Mrooti makes a number of models. Which one would become airborne?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 May 2010 08:07

Nayak wrote:I have the k-series swift zxi. Probably the first batch of swifts having the new series of engine. Now my previous car was a alto lxi, therefore any car would be a 'upgrade'. Maruti had a winner in swift and with the new engine it is just an icing on the cake. My zxi has alll the features of a top end sedan, automatic climatecontrol, abs, oem 2din music system, hieght adjustable seat, keyless entry,alloys, 185 sized tires, 5door lock security, superb a.s.s. network, incredible resale value. In city I get 17+ as fe, fun to drive and it's high way manners are impeccable, I have beeen to mysore twice and enjoyed the vice like grip and confidence inspired by the road manners. I have added extra cushion carpets and the drive is even more comfortable.

SHQ owns the older Swift ZXI.

The Swift is a very good buy.

I can only imagine how the performance must have improved with the new series engines.

munna · Post by **munna** » 18 May 2010 08:42

Dileep wrote:RB, Mrooti makes a number of models. Which one would become airborne?

800 is one and wonly Marooti to be ever produced rest are all new kiddies on the block-hardly deserving of the Mrooti name.

vina · Post by **vina** » 18 May 2010 08:57

RB, Mrooti makes a number of models. Which one would become airborne?

Bulk of 'em. 800 (definitely), Alto (Maybe), New Zen and Wagon R - most certainly. They will get "airborne".

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 May 2010 09:52

the swift dzire is also the biggest selling sedan in india, with a waiting list. itvity brats nowadays buy swift hatch as their first car. itvity bratinas dont buy anything that others can use - only clothes, eating out, drinks, jewels....just wait for a unwary brat to fall in the spider trap and reel him and his possessions in.

I am on the horns of a three pronged trishul - white, silver or polished metal(grey-brown). head didnt work. heart didnt work. rubbed the colour
brochure against my loins hoping the compass would point the way to pole star, but its swinging wildly in all three directions

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 18 May 2010 11:32

Take grey brown. White will fade and look like rust in a couple of years. Silver fades and will look like cheap aluminium crockery.

The best way to judge a car color's likability is to see it under a layer of dust. Since that is so prevalent in India, you will preview how your car will look like most of the times

The color that loses its charm the least under dust is the color to have.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 May 2010 12:05

I agree about white...it takes on a yellowish hue after prolonged exposure to sun and rain. and it kind of needs a extra dash of colour in red logo and allow wheels with coloured center rim to look good. good for fratboys with deep wallets to buy 5 new alloy wheels at 10k each

the biege leather upholstery does look better on a grey brown car than a silver .... and dust and mud doesnt show as easily.

yet we always wanted a silver car - have been through dark blue, black and red. tough choice. dust is not a huge issue in BLR and my car will
be in basement covered parking both at home and office.

vina · Post by **vina** » 18 May 2010 12:11

my car will be in basement covered parking both at home and office

Ah.. The perks and pelf of office a fat cat IT/Vity Manager wa !

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 May 2010 12:58

after 13 hard years in the salt mines, one should not grudge a few loaves and fishes to fellow men.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 May 2010 13:34

http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-oakland2010.pdf

security of onboard control systems in consumer vehicles.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 18 May 2010 16:16

Singha wrote:I agree about white...it takes on a yellowish hue after prolonged exposure to sun and rain. and it kind of needs a extra dash of colour in red logo and allow wheels with coloured center rim to look good. good for fratboys with deep wallets to buy 5 new alloy wheels at 10k each

the biege leather upholstery does look better on a grey brown car than a silver .... and dust and mud doesnt show as easily.

yet we always wanted a silver car - have been through dark blue, black and red. tough choice. dust is not a huge issue in BLR and my car will
be in basement covered parking both at home and office.

Why not white and a black roof? "Haute couture" in car capital! Not too posh! Not too uber-rich and definately not too flamboyant! Just looks exclusive!

See? Works _even_ for el-cheapo Opel!

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 18 May 2010 20:41

GD-saar, grey civic is a killer. rear spoiler, low profile michellin tires, and head light bling will give you that 'arrived' feeling. My b
neck of the woods is filled with boring citys and lauras. Very few civics in the parking lot. go for black it will be awesome and a chick magnet but keeping it clean and free from scratches would be a pita.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 May 2010 20:46

the next-gen blinding "philips" HID lights ? - the hallmark of the itvity wannabe who dreams of a bmw and audi :meow meow:
they are borderline illegal I believe, but then who really cares in desh.

even motorcycle riding aggressive gorillas are changing over to HID lamps....though a head-on with a blinded car should disabuse them
of that glorious feeling.

audis/bmw are coming for a "eyebrow" design consisting of a line of LED lamps along upper rim of the headlight assembly it seems.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 18 May 2010 21:35

Sometimes I want to buy a gun, just to shoot that moron with misaligned aftermarket HIDs on his alto on high beam, assisted by a pair of HID foglamps. Sometimes I even want to crash my own car to his and kill him instantly.

Those should be banned.

I was once literally blinded by the HID of an SUV at a massa intersection, and had to forego one green cycle, till my eyesight got restored.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 May 2010 22:02

munna wrote: 800 is one and wonly Marooti to be ever produced rest are all new kiddies on the block-hardly deserving of the Mrooti name.

Exactly! Though vina saar's point is quite valid re. the extended family too.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 May 2010 22:05

Singha wrote:rubbed the colour
brochure against my loins hoping the compass would point the way to pole star, but its swinging wildly in all three directions

Dileep wrote: I was once literally blinded by the HID of an SUV at a massa intersection, and had to forego one green cycle, till my eyesight got restored.

Happened many times on back country roads in massa. Apparently the in-bred rednecks 3rd cousin removed, think its macho to drive huge pickups at breakneck speeds with huge glowing orbs stuck all over to make up for their dim minds.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 May 2010 22:08

Raja Bose wrote:
munna wrote: 800 is one and wonly Marooti to be ever produced rest are all new kiddies on the block-hardly deserving of the Mrooti name.
Exactly! Though vina saar's point is quite valid re. the extended family too.

Don't forget that they are generally economical to run, great service network and even roadside mechanics are clued up in case of emergencies on some god forsaken rural road.

Cost of spares and labor is reasonable. Decent resale value.

Great second or third car to have in the family.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 May 2010 22:11

Singha wrote:http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-oakland2010.pdf

security of onboard control systems in consumer vehicles.

Interesting paper, Thanks. I will read it in full later on today while pretending to "work"

One thing to note is car manufacturers are typically not liable for any physical mods/hacks by unauthorized personnel and failure on part of the vehicle operator to prevent the same - have to see if their hacks fall in that category or not plus how practical are they.

One of the co-author fellas I know quite closely - pretty smart chappie with finger in many research pies plus owns some purty nice TFTA cars.

Dileep saar, You might be interested in reading the paper - one of the other co-authors is also one of them EVM hacktivist fellas.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 May 2010 22:15

For most people their first "learning to drive" car was either a premier padmini or amby if they are old graybeards or a Mrootti 800 if they are younger.
I learnt how to drive in a Mrootti van - when we bought it it wasnt called Omni and used to come in low-roof and high-roof versions. The stick shift on it was a total PITA, used to get stuck in 2nd gear and total hajamat in the middle of scooter, motorcycle cow, buffalo, elephant, DTC bus, Redline bus, myriad pedestrians and their mothers, other cars, thela wallahs, cycle wallahs....

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 18 May 2010 22:56

dont you drive a fancy fiesta dileep-cheta? flash the high beams at the maroons, if i am not wrong, fiesta headligts are quite powerful.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 19 May 2010 03:46

Dileep wrote:Sometimes I want to buy a gun, just to shoot that moron with misaligned aftermarket HIDs on his alto on high beam, assisted by a pair of HID foglamps. Sometimes I even want to crash my own car to his and kill him instantly.

Those should be banned.

Once I stopped my vehicle in the middle of the road when an oncoming car had this HID highbeam. He honked and honked and then got down and asked me if I was blind. I said yes and that his high beam blinded me. He had enough sense to not rile me up any further and went back and lowered his beam and we drove off.