Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Sep 2011 17:07

I didnt write the post you quoted. but it is true that US vegetables and fruits are the best looking on mother earth. bananas from chiquita that look like they emerged from a ipad assembly line, no black marks, uniform shape and size; beautiful polish and size to each and every item on the shelves, potatoes as big as small indic melons , same for onions - massive CVN type bulk......however pretty poor in taste compared to the weak sdre desi varieties that are perhaps less "controlled". onions for example seem to have been bred for no pungency at all, precisely why people love onions in india.

they sure have work to do to study the indic consumer and grow to his taste. Mcdonalds flapped around for a few years before finally finding its feet and coming up with indian items like mcaloo tiki. same for pizza makers using indic style toppings. nobody gives a shit what exactly is pepperoni here but all can understand tikka topping.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Sep 2011 18:38

Compared to Desh the 'modern' agricultural countries, West, Japan, China, etc invest a staggering amount per acre and produce a truly astonishing amount per acre. Central valley and Florida soil is essentially sand so all nutrients have to be added for essentially Hydroponic type cultivation. This is the real cause of the lack of flavor. Every time I fly to desh I look forward to that wimpy Jet Airlines salad on the connector from Mumbai to Chennai. Looks sad and limp but when you taste it...wow!

One comparison. Greenhouse garden variety Tomatos reach production of 40+ Tonnes per acre annually. With our climate greenhouse is not necessary. Indian production struggles to reach 4 Tonnes per acre. Yes 1/10th. This is true of most vegetables.

We use about 15 Million acres to produce about 80 million tonnes of vegetable. If we went fully high production, we would only need about 2-3 million acres, to produce about 100 Million tonnes of vegetables. This would be about 1/20 the land area of Karnataka. The remaining 12 million acres would go bust and get used for something else. Also we would use 1/10 the water and far less fertilizer and pesticide by tonnage though it would be higher per acre.

Things are similar in grain production. Indian average yield of about 1 tonnes per acre of Rice is 1/4 of average high world production. And 1/6th of peak world production which approaches 6 tonnes per acre. We could shrink rice area to about 20 million acres (land area of Haryana) and feed the entire country with tonnage to spare. Wheat would require another 30 million acres. We would release about 250 million acres of land for other uses. We would also drop water use for agriculture which consume 95% of water in India to 1/4 present level.

The question is what do you do with all those redundant farmers and farms. Sustainability is a whole different question, of course present Indian agriculture is unsustainable as well.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 02 Sep 2011 19:03

Theo the stats you have quoted are staggering. Knew that our per care productivity is dismal but comparing it in terms of acreage gives real idea of the missed total opportunity cost.If best practices are implemented a lot of land will be released for other uses.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 02 Sep 2011 19:12

The Indian export puzzle.

Do the recent Indian export numbers make any sense at all? The value of exports in July was almost double its level a year ago. They shot up by an astonishing annual rate of 81.78%, to $29.34 billion, at a time of great economic uncertainty around the world.

It is well known that the world economy is not in the best shape. The Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), the rich countries’ club, said this week merchandise exports from the group of seven (G7) nations and the Bric countries slowed to 1.9% in the second quarter of this year, from 7.7% in the previous three months. Exports from China went up by a tenth in these months.

Economic growth in these major economies has likely further slowed down, on the back of fresh worries about a fiscal crisis in the West and interest rate increases in countries such as India and China.

So how are Indian exports flowering against this grey backdrop? One explanation offered by CLSA economist Rajeev Malik is that the value of Indian exports is now more strongly linked to global commodity prices. “There has been a steady increase in commodity-based exports. Apart from the jump in the share of petroleum products in total exports, there has been an impressive increase in the share of engineering goods, especially transportation equipment. However, the engineering goods category also includes several items, such metals and metals-related, which are sensitive to global commodity prices.” For example, petroleum and crude products accounted for 1.4% of Indian exports by value in 1996. Fifteen years later, that has climbed to 17.2%.

Another theory doing the rounds is that companies are pulling money back into India, as the issue of money parked in foreign tax havens attracts more political attention and governments across the world step up efforts to regulate the shadow banking system. One way such money can be brought back into India is through over-invoicing of exports. Not surprisingly, there is no data to back this claim.

The explanation that there has been a fundamental change in India’s export basket seems the more convincing one right now, but perhaps it is too early to dismiss the second explanation right away.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 02 Sep 2011 19:40

The agricultural problem also shows how staggeringly overpopulated we are. The combine population of WB, UP and Bihar is 43 crore. (35% of the Indian population) . Their poplation density is almost 3 times the rest of the country. It is well know that these states were the worst governed states in the independent India. Population density of Guj , Karnataka , Tamil nadu is 308 compared to close to 1000 in UP/Bihar/WB . Had they be properly governed and their density been equal to rest of the India our population would have been lesser by 27 crores. We would not have still reached a figure of 100 crore and peaked at 1.1 crore . It is because of pathetic governance in these states that in 2050 we ll have 50 crore more people than we would otherwise have had. Since the enrolment in these states is lower than others (again due to poor governance) their population will again be least productive . One of the reasons why mechanised agriculture will never be in vogue. I mean a lot of these people could hardly do anything else.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Sep 2011 20:33

Vipul,

I made it sound a lot easier than it is. It would require complete re-organization of agriculture, giant farms, fully scientific practices, synthetic fertilizer/chemicals and investment in the of $300 Billion or so every year. Yes at that point the vast majority of agricultural land in India, most of it marginal could be released for other use.

G,

The latest fertility trends show WB at/just below replacement. Other states such as Gujarat, Haryana, UP, MP, Bihar and most of the NE is much higher. Population in itself is not a fatal problem, just a challenge. Lack of productivity is the real problem.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Sep 2011 20:52

kakkad ji, the population is not because of bad governance but because of the fertility of the gangetic valley. most farmland in west bengal would provide 3 major crops per year compared to say, gujarat where even one per year was difficult sometime back.

WB population increase rate is lower than the national average.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Sep 2011 21:33

RM,

I beg to differ. Yes WB is productive but not Bihar, UP or MP.

The most productive lands in India are in Punjab, Krishna/Godavari/Cauvery delta areas. This due to water, better soil and less cloud cover. These areas have not over populated. Family planning and population control is very weak in these states. Also note that these are the states with lowest social reform and hence female education/liberation. Weak governance does not help.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Sep 2011 21:46

theo saar, I am not saying that poor family planning didn't play a part, we are after all talking of BIMARU states. but gangetic valley is at least as much fertile as any other place in India. furthermore, the length of the river system creates a very large fertile area running from UP to bengal.
I disagree about punjab. punjab became that productive only after green revolution, the most fertile areas of punjab went to pakistan, same with bengal.

VenkataS · Post by **VenkataS** » 03 Sep 2011 01:46

Theo_Fidel wrote: We would release about 250 million acres of land for other uses. We would also drop water use for agriculture which consume 95% of water in India to 1/4 present level.

The question is what do you do with all those redundant farmers and farms.

That is why it is imperative that we move the majority of the population engaged in subsistence farming into the industrial and services sectors. I believe that this movement in labor is essential to improving agricultural productivity and providing sustainable employment for the subsistence farmers.

For this to happen though we need them to be literate and possess employable skills. There should also be a substantial number of new jobs that need to be created in the industrial sector every year.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 03 Sep 2011 04:42

So Walmart's model will not work in India. Ok -- but then why all the emotive arguments about hatchet jobs etc? Let them in and let them fall flat on their face. Then we can all laugh at them and point out how superior our desi practices are.

I don't get the vehement opposition to these companies if the claim is that their models are just not going to work in India. Why not just try it and find out? Like I said, it's not like letting in the big retailers is going to prevent the existing supply chain from functioning. So we can have all the 40% spoilage we want and show those foreign companies that their modern ways simply will not do in India! Win-win all around.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Sep 2011 06:01

Abhijeet wrote:So Walmart's model will not work in India. Ok -- but then why all the emotive arguments about hatchet jobs etc? Let them in and let them fall flat on their face. Then we can all laugh at them and point out how superior our desi practices are.

Absolutely. Let them in by all means.

The point is that the articles are trying to force a way in on their terms. They should come in on our terms.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 03 Sep 2011 06:44

What are "our terms", and how are they better than "their terms"? If you're talking about regulations, from what I've read, the Indian regulations seem mostly to do with absurdly micromanaging the ways in which they can do business -- for example, being able to open stores only in the largest cities and the minimum square footage per store -- the typical "government knows best" attitude that worked so well for us till 1991.

If "their terms" mean giving them (and all businesses, Indian or foreign) the freedom to decide how, where and with whom to do business, then I'd say that "their terms" are a lot better than "our terms".

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 03 Sep 2011 08:35

I made it sound a lot easier than it is. It would require complete re-organization of agriculture, giant farms, fully scientific practices, synthetic fertilizer/chemicals and investment in the of $300 Billion or so every year. Yes at that point the vast majority of agricultural land in India, most of it marginal could be released for other use.

Don't you think 300b/year is a little overestimate ? Having said there is huge amount of designated agro land that is not even fit to grow grass. It is lying empty because of gov't idiocy . So if we begin selling that land to developers / industrialists / apduls like us at market rate , then the funds generated from the sale can be invested in agriculture.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 03 Sep 2011 22:57

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/world ... wanted=all

I know this article is from June,2011 but I have not seen it posted. It's a a good example of the reverse Midas touch of the GOI.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Sep 2011 02:53

Gji,

$ 300 Billion works out to about Rs 2 lakhs per acre on 50 Million acres of land. When using GM High yield seeds, full planting/harvest machinery, proper center pivot/lateral irrigation, fertilizer/pesticide, etc, trust me $300 billion is an underestimate. Of course from that investment of Rs2 lakhs per acre you will get about 12 tonnes of grain, so the cost per kg is about Rs 15 and you can sell the rice for about Rs 25- Rs30. I guess that gives you an idea of how under invested our agriculture sector is.

One simple item. If all fields in India switch to center pivot or lateral irrigation rather an horrifically inefficient flood irrigation our water use would be be cut to about 1/3 to 1/4. Kinda like this.

From the air India would start looking like this.

Like I said a complete transformation.

Aji,

What Wal-Mart wants in India is to import any product it feels like (mostly Panda), complete freedom to hire/fire, subsidized land & utilities, freedom to use its size to crush the competition price wise initially, etc. India would be wise to never give predatory merchandise companies like Wal-Mart a free hand on anything. Right now Wal-Mart is an extension of Panda land, nothing more.

They should only come in on India's terms.

We have plenty of local retailers scaling up as quickly as they can. Yes they to sell Panda products but are mostly indigenous and getting more localized. Big Bazaar in Chennai is excellent. We don't need Wal-Mart. I would like to point out Germany & SKorea have no WM and are doing just fine.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 04 Sep 2011 08:44

Walmart will be able to import into India using exactly the same import duties as any other business. They also have to abide by the same labor laws. Using size (aka scale) to put smaller competitors out of business is how capitalism works and how economies become more productive.

In none of this do I see anything extraordinary about Walmart's position.

No laws need to be changed if Walmart comes in. Let them operate under the same laws as any other business. On the flip side, why have different, more restrictive terms only for them?

Yes, Germany and South Korea may be getting along fine without Walmart. They also don't have 40% of their food rotting away while food inflation runs at 15+%, just because their supply chains are so antiquated. India does.

Ultimately, the question is philosophical. Some people believe that "Indian" businesses are somehow more noble and more likely to do the "right thing" for the country than foreign businesses. This is a sad, misguided point of view. Every business will do whatever it takes to make the maximum profit for their owners. Big Bazaar may be getting more localized because it makes sense economically. Walmart will do the same. There is no patriotism involved.

If you want to have special requirements in order to bootstrap certain industries in the country, by all means have incentives and disincentives to effect those changes -- but apply them evenly to all companies rather than singling out only foreign companies.

As an Indian consumer living in India (unlike most of the posters here), I see the effects of the broken system every day around me. I see poor quality products that cost as much as in developed countries, while inflation roars along. The system needs fixing, and allowing more competition is only going to speed up the process. We shouldn't be defending the inefficient status quo just because the alternative is to have more foreign companies competing for Indian consumers' wallets.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 04 Sep 2011 09:30

Theo sir,

You seem to have done good research on this. But I don't think we need green houses in India . Because most of India is tropical/subtropical to begin with. Apart from that I agree with you.

I want to know how would you have approached this if you were agro minister . ie from where would you have got the funds . WHat would you have done with the excess labour ? etc.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Sep 2011 11:36

G saar,

That is just the cost of open to sky high intensity agriculture. Green house/drip/hydroponics cost a heck of a lot more. These numbers are very well known to Indian Agriculture scientists, 2 of whom are my cousins and work for TNAU. The key problem is will people support structurally high food prices when they are used to Rs 1 rice. Trying to put the Govt./PDS in the middle of such a chain will be disaster.

Aji,

Wal-Mart refuses to enter under present laws. Only a token 3 cash & carry stores have been opened, when the demand exists for hundreds more. Wal-Mart does not think like you about competitors, productivity or rules. I've worked on several projects for them. They work to create an environment where they are the only large supplier. This is their management orientation and the only situation they are profitable. They will bribe, destroy competition through price wars and buy out and shut down anything in their way.

I don't know what your experience is of them, but having seen them up close, don't let them into India without a lot of controls.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Sep 2011 19:01

Suraj, any comments on the interest rate policy of RBI ?

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 04 Sep 2011 21:37

If RBI has any semblance of common-sense, they'll realize keeping the interest rates at current level can only exacerbate the inflationary problems, not to mention the carry traders will take the country from laundry (where it is right now) to gutter. They have to start cutting the interest rates now before it creates more supply side bottlenecks. If they do the unthinkably stupid decision to further hike the interest rate, we are within 40 bps where the gilts yield curve that is already flat like a dosa will flip over! With policies of the UPA government and madmen at helm in RBI, it wouldn't surprise me to see our rating go back to junk status soon.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 04 Sep 2011 23:13

Ambar:

How do high interest rates exacerbate the inflation problem?
Are Indian capital markets open enough for carry trades to be done on a big scale?

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 05 Sep 2011 00:19

Rising interest rates are strangling already tight money market funds. This will further impact production and logistics there by creating more supply side bottlenecks exacerbating inflation.

With a capital inflows hovering around 6-7% of the GDP, and US making a firm decision to keep interest rates near 0% till 2013, it would be foolish not to worry about carry trade. Although FII inflows have reduced significantly (August was 2nd worst month with cumulative investment if negative 2.1 billion $), non-institutionalized capital inflows is higher than an year ago. Brazil and China are both mulling about capital restrictions, why not us ? The only reason being our babus are busy piling pit full of money into their pockets and using inflows to finance our ever growing deficits.

chaitanya · Post by **chaitanya** » 05 Sep 2011 08:00

Hi guys,

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I didnt find any mention of it while searching the previous posts... but here it goes

I've been trying to see what India's GDP is and I get vastly different numbers, all conflicting with each other. From the previous econ thread, a couple articles came up saying india will cross $2 trillion dollar mark this coming fiscal in real dollar terms. Go to wikipedia, and the india page quotes wb/cia factbook, etc as sources and peg 2010 GDP at ~1.5 trillion (and as a result the wiki page on india, and all related rankings) say that india is the 10th largest economy. Go to the indian armed forces page on wiki and they claim the current defense spending is "$36.03 billion for FY2011 (or 1.83% of GDP)" which translates into almost 2 trillion already (and they cite SIPRI).

Who is right? Why is there such a massive discrepancy (other than the obvious to snub india)? This has bothered me for a while... many thanks in advance.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 05 Sep 2011 08:41

^^^ depends upon the exchange rate. The actal gdp may be much higher than 2 trillion if you count the black economy.

Edited - sorry for the typo

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 05 Sep 2011 10:21

chaitanya wrote:Hi guys,

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I didnt find any mention of it while searching the previous posts... but here it goes

I've been trying to see what India's GDP is and I get vastly different numbers, all conflicting with each other. From the previous econ thread, a couple articles came up saying india will cross $2 trillion dollar mark this coming fiscal in real dollar terms. Go to wikipedia, and the india page quotes wb/cia factbook, etc as sources and peg 2010 GDP at ~1.5 trillion (and as a result the wiki page on india, and all related rankings) say that india is the 10th largest economy. Go to the indian armed forces page on wiki and they claim the current defense spending is "$36.03 billion for FY2011 (or 1.83% of GDP)" which translates into almost 2 trillion already (and they cite SIPRI).

Who is right? Why is there such a massive discrepancy (other than the obvious to snub india)? This has bothered me for a while... many thanks in advance.

http://mospi.nic.in/Mospi_New/upload/PR ... 202011.pdf

Gross domestic product (GDP) at market prices (Current prices) 2010-11 (RE): 7875627 crores.

@$1=Rs.45, its 1.75 trillion.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Sep 2011 12:23

I had long been arguing for this, what productive use of the vast volume of Yellow metal we buy. Now confirmed. Infact we would not have a trade defecit if not for Gold, Precious metals and precious stone imports.

Fascination with gold hampering India's growth story

Me thinks when discussing Indian imports should be broken into 3 instead of 2

1) Gold and Jewellery related imports

2) Oil Imports

3) Other

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 05 Sep 2011 19:22

Gold is deferred consumption. That is people save their money in gold now and will trade it in for assets once some price target for gold is hit in the future.

In fact its the best kind of savings. It cannot easily be rippd off by the useless middleman industry called banking & financing which desparately wants people to exchange their honest labor for worthless paper they create. They make their living extracting wealth from people in that way.

Now that they gambled their own arse into bankruptcy why should anyone listen to them for advice on how money should be saved. Right now they are offloading their worthless "financial assets" onto the backs of the productive economy and looking for suckers overseas to buy the junk.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 05 Sep 2011 21:24

Neshant wrote:Gold is deferred consumption. That is people save their money in gold now and will trade it in for assets once some price target for gold is hit in the future.

Most of the gold would be bought as jewellery, which seldom if ever gets sold. So, the point about deferred consumption is incorrect.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 05 Sep 2011 21:43

Gold in India is status symbol. Like you buy a yacht or BMW in massaland.

I've been to a couple of weddings where the woman had to be helped to rise up from the reception chair because of all the gold strapped to her like a suicide belt.

Gold does serve another purpose. It gives Indians the confidence to spend the rest of their income, knowing that the Gold will not depreciate. It creates confidence in the consumer market. A confidence the public rightfully does not have in an economy managed by Government.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 05 Sep 2011 21:44

People never sell their gold , they might use it to get a loan or something , but never sell , unless they are desperate for money.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 06 Sep 2011 13:37

>>People never sell their gold , they might use it to get a loan or something

Boss, I think we may be looking at it from the perspective of our own social environment (assuming of course) - say middle to upper middle class. A lot of gold jewellery is sold. In fact in many gold stores in Mallustan (and if you are from there you know there are zillions of these virtually everywhere these days) there is a small section for selling gold, or exchanging old jewellery for new jewellery.

It is not unusual for people who get gold ornaments as gifts, especially among the lower income brackets to see that virtually as "money in the bank" so to speak... And it is much more often used as a loan-collateral. Tons and tons of families in India do this, sort of like people mortage their homes and properties in the west.

I'm not making a case about the efficiency of gold jewellery as an investment or anything; don't know enough about the mechanics of that market. Just noting what I've observed.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Sep 2011 13:58

Awright. Just gotta tell this experience. I had gone to the Passport Seva Kendra in Outer Ring Road, opp Intel , today to get my passport renewed.

I filled in the form and got an online appointment. I duly uploaded the the required documents as per what the website "Document Advisor" ( a very nifty feature, tells you exactly what documents are needed based on what service you desire) and I did notice that the website was run by TCS and the online process was available only for Bangalore, Mangalore, Hubli /Dharwad and Chandigarh! I thought , ah.. thank goodness we have the Foreign Minister from KA.

So, off I went this morning at my scheduled appointment time and I was expecting a typical govt office with creaky ceiling fans, battered furniture and paan stained walls and a massive line of people with an army of touts scratching their head outside. The building was an IT/Vity style building from outside . The first thing I noticed something was amiss was that there were smartly attired IT/Vity type private security guards, and not a govt chowkidar /security chap or a Karnataka Police Pandu outside, who was giving directions , and he made the public form an orderly queue, before frisking folks (women had a separate booth with women security frisking them) and then you enter a hall.

I was in for a shock. It was unlike any govt office I had seen before in India. It was light years removed from Shastri Bhavan in Chennai kind of place (from where I got my first passport while at the Madrassa) . There were very nice counters with smiling polite young folks manning it, who did a quick check of the documents and , scanned your appointment receipt's bar code, and gave out a token with a number and bar code and other details in it and as I was directed around the corner, I was gob smacked. There was a turnstile where a guard scanned your token, and then you enter into a nice waiting room , ample place to sit , with clean toilets, a nice snack corner which served coffee/tea out of a vending machine, piping hot and cakes, sandwiches and other snacks and big LCD screens which called out your tokens.

My number came up right as I entered and I was directed to a counter, where I was asked to SIT in nice comfortable chairs, where another nice smiling young man (I realized that it was all TCS folks until now), quickly pulled out what I entered online on the screen (there is one facing you as well, in addition to one for him) checks the doucments, walks with you through what you entered to make sure there are no mistakes and then asks to take your photo with the camera at his desk connected to the machine (the first time wasnt nice enough, I asked him if he could do it again, he smilingly said yes .. can you imagine that in a govt office and took it again), then he got my finger prints scanned, and printed out the documents and asked me to sign , asked if I was paying by cash (I was shocked.. since when could you use credit cards in govt offices.

.), printed out a receipt and then scanned all my documents and said asked me to wait for my token to come up in the other counters.

Soon , enough, I went to the second counter where there was a "verification officer" (I think he was a GOI employee), nicely dressed, polite, not hassled, who verified my documents again, cleared me and asked me to wait for the last counter , and this time it was with the Officers (APO must be Asst Passport Officer I think) , who did a thorough check, as my passport was issued in NY, took his time (again, very polite, not hassled, very pleasant) and passed my file , cancelled my old passport and told me that he was done .

As I was going out through the exit door, another young TCS employee, asked form my token pass, scanned it, scanned my fee payment receipt, and finally , pointed out to a screen next to him and asked me to enter FEEDBACK on the entire experience, which included basically Ambience, Politeness, Cleanliness (even the bathrooms were a far cry from the typical govt ones and were largely fine, not 5 star hotel clean, but given that it was a public office, perfectly acceptable) and Entire Experience (I think). I gave them top ratings in everything.

The entire office (fully air conditioned, well lit, neat clean, modern furniture, beautifully laid out work flow) and everything could have come right out of any of the Cisco/Intel/Ass Enter/ IT/vity companies surrounding that place.

The final thing of asking for feedback and caring about things like cleanliness and pleasantness of the experience was like a pile driver to my jaw and rocked me back on the heels.

This easily qualified as simply THE BEST experience I have had in ANY official interaction whether in Singapore, Europe or US . Doing it online was fine, but I had not expected the face to face back end part. That simply rocked. No shady "agents" all the unsavory fixers not even visible anywhere near the Passport Seva Kendra .. And my word,what a difference from the experience of 6 and 7 years ago, when I wanted to get my wife's name included in my passport and also get a passport for my daughter.

This experience was a total "Shakinah" .. All Piss,Plogress and Plosperity . The productivity boost out of this outsourcing the bulk of the work to TCS must be simply enormous. There were like 3 govt "officers" and maybe some 6 govt employees and some 30 /40 TCS employees. If the Yindoos (like the TCS outsourced Passport Seva Kendra and the Infosys outsourced Income Tax Centralized Processing Center) can do this kind of process improvements and productivity boosts and this is just the beginning,not even scratching the first few atoms of the surface, the entire world better start shivering in their collective Dhotis. This is a level of Haiti to 1st world jump !

Even the officers and govt employees seemed so different. Maybe it is just that with the daily irritants and the corrosive environment in a typical govt office is removed, they truly come into their own and their entire demeanor and outlook changes!

Thank god for SMK as the FM. Dilli Billis can still get going to their paan stained, "fixers" and shakers infested Sarkari offices and get ripped by the touts and given the run around and the birdie!

. I just hope that Dilli gets the new Passport Seva Kendras LAST

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Sep 2011 14:24

Vina - All good, how relevant to "India Economy Thread"? - Please cross post in Nukkad, where rest of us can continue to envy you. The only thing good about Shastri Bhavan- is location, right next door.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Sep 2011 14:41

Aditya_V wrote:Vina - All good, how relevant to "India Economy Thread"? - Please cross post in Nukkad, where rest of us can continue to envy you. The only thing good about Shastri Bhavan- is location, right next door.

Sorry. You dont get it do you ? It is ALL about the e-Con-O-me . The first time I got my passport @ Shastri Bhavan in Chennai, I cycled in some 38deg C sun with near 100% humidity, took a rattly bus with not even a fan (23C if I remember correctly), stood in a stinking paan stained stair well for like 4 hours, had to go back twice more to finally submit the form and then went again to pick it up and the clerk had made the entries in the passport in such an illegible and barely visible scrawl, that I was nearly not allowed entry in to the US and I had to send in the passport to the Indian consulate to get a fresh book issued. That was the India of the mai baap sarkari govt raj.

And today, I rode a Volvo B7R A/C bus (wifey took the car to work, I took the bus, we are not a 2 car family by design), with side vision cameras, common rail diesel engine and cutting edge tech features that would not be out of place in any first world city, and had 1st world experience with a service, which adjusted for inflation, cost me less today than it did back then!

We sure have come a heck of a long way baby , atleast in Bangalore. Of course I do hope Chennai gets these new fangled IT/Vity services, long long before Dilli!

I was bit skeptical about the Nandan Nilekani Aadhaar business earlier. But if this is the kind of transformation that technology can bring about and if the Mobile opens out as a service channel in full earnest, the change will be stupendous. I am a believer now that I have seen glimpses of it. Nandan Saab, Aage Bhado ! All power to you. For eg, if this Aadhar had been available, the "Proof of Identity" part of the passport business would have been simplicity itself for anyone. All that would be needed would be proof of address and proof of citizenship

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Sep 2011 15:50

Ok I thought this Thread about general economy, GDP, highways built km, Direct Tax to Government tax collections, Indrect Tax collections Ityaadi.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 06 Sep 2011 17:49

OK OK OK... Aditya, but it is a bit of good news that vina wants to share... Suraj will not allow it to go way OT, so it's fine. Let us savour this bit of positive change meanwhile, no?

vina, pls post in Nukkad also... where people can pump their fists as they please.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 06 Sep 2011 20:13

The new passport office is progress. The next step should be to ensure that the police don't sit on the file and demand money to clear the verification.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 06 Sep 2011 21:49

vera_k wrote:The new passport office is progress. The next step should be to ensure that the police don't sit on the file and demand money to clear the verification.

Don't know about elsewhere but that was the one aspect in Chennai that is usually clean as a whistle. Due to the long series of security incidents in and around Chennai the cops don't mess around with passports. It takes 2 weeks and they will visit you at home to verify. If they miss you they will come one more time and then you have to re-notify. I always tip the cop for coming out in the heat often by bicycle. If there is a problem, no amount of connections/money will change this unless you can clarify. There might be exceptions but not for us SDRE.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 07 Sep 2011 03:30

vina wrote:Awright. Just gotta tell this experience. I had gone to the Passport Seva Kendra in Outer Ring Road, opp Intel , today to get my passport renewed.

Bhat!!!

You don't carry a TFTA passport?