Super great development. Atlast BDL seems to have done something indigenous itself. A right choice to develop a cheap radio guided ATGM. I think it will be 1/20th the cost of Spike or Javelin.sankum wrote:BDL test-fires anti-tank missile
Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
I am trying to understand the significance of this.sankum wrote:BDL test-fires anti-tank missile
The first variety is an IIR (Imaging Infra Red seeker) missile (now called Amogha-1). This was tested in January 2016 in Mahajan Range where it hit "bull's eye" at a range of 4 Kms (not 2.8 as the above report says). The 2.8 Km tests were done earlier in September 2015 at the Babina Range.
The latest test uses a mmW seeker. This seeker was realized in 2011 itself but had some deficiencies in hot weather conditions. Apparently, they have been overcome now. This is HeliNa fired from an aerial platform with a range of 7-8 Kms with LOAL capability?
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Sridhar I took this image in 2003 - BDL was making these. The Russki Konkurs on the left with launcher at cack, and the French Milan at right. Milan has a range of 3 km and Konkurs 75 m to 4 km - - both wire guided.SSridhar wrote:I am trying to understand the significance of this.sankum wrote:BDL test-fires anti-tank missile
The first variety is an IIR (Imaging Infra Red seeker) missile (now called Amogha-1). This was tested in January 2016 in Mahajan Range where it hit "bull's eye" at a range of 4 Kms (not 2.8 as the above report says). The 2.8 Km tests were done earlier in September 2015 at the Babina Range.
The latest test uses a mmW seeker. This seeker was realized in 2011 itself but had some deficiencies in hot weather conditions. Apparently, they have been overcome now. This is HeliNa fired from an aerial platform with a range of 7-8 Kms with LOAL capability?

Maybe they are trying to create a "fire and forget" by installing a seeker. Nowadays I have been seeing a lot of Konkurs(Spandrel) videos from Syria
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
^^ Both Konkurs and Milan are wire guided.
The news report say the new missile uses jam proofed radio command guidance, possibly replacing the wire guidance in these missiles, or in an entirely new missile body.
Similarly, IIR seekers are available via import or indigenous manufacture for Nag, and BDL can use them in either the old missiles or a new one.
The news report say the new missile uses jam proofed radio command guidance, possibly replacing the wire guidance in these missiles, or in an entirely new missile body.
Similarly, IIR seekers are available via import or indigenous manufacture for Nag, and BDL can use them in either the old missiles or a new one.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
OK, this is what some Googling found out:
Millimetric Wave Seeker for Third Generation Anti Tank Guided Missiles - Authors from RCI, Hyd. 2013
Millimetric Wave Seeker for Third Generation Anti Tank Guided Missiles - Authors from RCI, Hyd. 2013
Interview with Dr. Satheesh Reddy Probably in c. 20141. INTRODUCTION
The third generation A TGMs are characterised by their lock-on-before-launch (LOBL) and fire-~ndforget capability. In addition, these missiles should have a top attack trajectory which renders them more lethal against tanks. To design a missile with the above-mentioned capabilities, a seeker system is required, which can always orient itself towards the target and home on to it. Also, the seeker snould be
small in size and weight as is required by all A TGMs and should have ECCM and all-weather capability. To meet the above requirements, a pulsed millimetric wave (MMW) radar was chosen for the seeker. To keep the seeker size within permissible limits, the W-band was chosen. It has the following capabilities :
a) Always pointing the seeker antenna towards the target (angle tracking). ,
b) Tracking the target in range...
c) Stabilising the seeker antenna in the presence of missile manoeuvres.
2. SYSTEM DESCRIPTION
The seeker system consists of antenna, transmitter receiver, on board signal processor and homing head stabilisation system. The system block diagram is given in Fig. 1. The transmitter sends a pulsed W.band signal through the antenna and the target return, received through the antenna and receiver modules, is passed on to t~e onboard signal processor. The return contains both range and angle information of the target. The signal processor extracts this information, performs closed loop range tracking on the target and gives the extracted angular error signals to. homing head stabilisation. The stabilisation system, in turn, rotates the ant~nna mechanically so as to cancel the angular error. Thus, closed loop angle tracking is established in both azimuth and elevation planes. The stabilisation unit also stabilises the antenna by keeping the antenna on the electrical boresight direction inspite of missile manoeuvres.
6. SUMMARY
The conceptual validity of the seeker system has been established and the critical design issues have been addressed. Outdoor test results for target detection, range tracking and open loop angle tracking are satisfactory; and closed loop angle tracking evaluation is in progress. Feasible improvements to achieve higher ranges are under implementation.
SauravJha: Dr Reddy, the recently unveiled missile autonomy mission will see the development of tactical missiles that would clearly need seekers for the end game. In that context would you tell us more about the radio frequency (RF) seeker technology being developed here in RCI?
Satheesh Reddy: On the RF seeker front, we have quite a few developments taking place. We have developed a millimeter wave (MMW) seeker that is being produced by private industry. This MMW seeker is capable of both lock-on-after-launch(LOAL) and lock-on-before-launch(LOBL) configurations.
SauravJha: What is the MMW seeker meant for?
Satheesh Reddy: It is meant for PGMs and for the next generation anti-radiation missile (NGARM).
SauravJha: PGMs of the kind?
Satheesh Reddy:Like the lightweight PGM under development here in RCI at the moment. This PGM has already been test-fired from an unmanned aerial vehicle and a sizeable number can also be carried by a missile like the Prithvi or by an aircraft like the Su-30 MKI. The Prithvi configuration can be used for attacking runways for example.
Continuing on the RF seeker front, RCI is also developing a Ku-band seeker for anti-aircraft applications. This is a scaled down version of an existing active radar seeker developed by us and is a requirement for the Astra. System qualification is expected to commenceearly next year.
An X-band seeker for anti-ship applications is also being pursued very seriously and trials will be held in the first quarter of 2015.
SauravJha:Turning to IIR seekers, Dr Reddy what is the status of the new seeker for the Nag? Will it satisfy the Army's requirement of achieving target acquisition at a range of 4 km even in the most trying desert conditions?
Satheesh Reddy:That seeker is headed for trials this year. It can actually be used out to 6-7 kmsin better conditions.
SauravJha: And has work begun on a two colour seeker?
Satheesh Reddy: Design work is under way. We expect it to head for developmental trials in 2016.
SauravJha: Coming back to RF seekers, how would you characterize India's current manufacturing capability in this sphere?
Satheesh Reddy:There are at least 5-6 domestic companies now both private and public who are doing credible RF seeker work. With four of them right here in Hyderabad. BEL also has a very good RF practice. As I told you earlier the MMW seeker is already being produced by our companies.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
I know it's semantics ... as long as we understand it the same wayAkshay Kapoor wrote:So an Akash Fire Unit is 4 launchers + Radar. 2 FUs = IAF Sqdn and 6 FUs = Army Regt.
Clear. Thanks.

The term for "FU" used by the IAF is flight. Two combat flights plus a technical flight and SCC make up an Akash squadron.
The IA uses troop for "FU". Six troops plus technical/maintenance troop and CCC make up an Akash regiment (from news reports) although per this brochure a group mode allows for up to 4 troops only; the other two might be reserves or operate in autonomous mode.

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
SSridhar those RCI seekers are Nag oriented. The joint drdo BDL MPATGM is still on devpt. See report from MOD in RD thread. These ATGMs appear to be BDL inititatives to replace the konkurs and Milan.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
^^^srai : It is highly unlikely that IA uses 'troop' nomenclature. It has to be 'battery'. That is the standard in Artillery and Army Air Defense (AAD). It is equivalent of a company or squadron in infantry and Armoured. Troop is a subset on line of platoon in infantry.
So, an armored regiment squadron has 3 troops of 4 tanks each along with tank of squadron commander. Plus one more tank.
So, an armored regiment squadron has 3 troops of 4 tanks each along with tank of squadron commander. Plus one more tank.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Yes, battery is standard worldwide but that brochure mentioned troop instead. Let's see what it turns out to be once operational.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
shiv & Karan M, tks.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
BDL is doing license manufacture of :-
Wire guided Milan
Wire guided Konkur
Laser beam riding Invar
It seems that BDL has developed:-
Long ranged wire guided version of Milan. There has been long standing demand for it from the Army. May be based on imported components of Milan 3.
Also developed a Radio frequency guided wireless (no seeker) ATGM (something like TOW RF). Not clear whether it is RF beam rider or command guidance. No clarity on size, weight, range. So we do not know whether man portable or vehicle based.
DRDO is working on :-
Laser beam homing CLGM/SAMHO
IR seeker based Nag and Helina
MMW seeker based ATGM, offshoot of Helina
IR seeker based man portable ATGM
Wire guided Milan
Wire guided Konkur
Laser beam riding Invar
It seems that BDL has developed:-
Long ranged wire guided version of Milan. There has been long standing demand for it from the Army. May be based on imported components of Milan 3.
Also developed a Radio frequency guided wireless (no seeker) ATGM (something like TOW RF). Not clear whether it is RF beam rider or command guidance. No clarity on size, weight, range. So we do not know whether man portable or vehicle based.
DRDO is working on :-
Laser beam homing CLGM/SAMHO
IR seeker based Nag and Helina
MMW seeker based ATGM, offshoot of Helina
IR seeker based man portable ATGM
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
SRai appears correct about troop. Rjendra IA variant is TLRrohitvats wrote:^^^srai : It is highly unlikely that IA uses 'troop' nomenclature. It has to be 'battery'. That is the standard in Artillery and Army Air Defense (AAD). It is equivalent of a company or squadron in infantry and Armoured. Troop is a subset on line of platoon in infantry.
So, an armored regiment squadron has 3 troops of 4 tanks each along with tank of squadron commander. Plus one more tank.
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/60 ... 24/photo/1
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Karan, we don't know the context of the picture. And I'm not too sure about familiarity of the poster (whose pic you've quoted) on such matters.Karan M wrote:SRai appears correct about troop. Rjendra IA variant is TLRrohitvats wrote:^^^srai : It is highly unlikely that IA uses 'troop' nomenclature. It has to be 'battery'. That is the standard in Artillery and Army Air Defense (AAD). It is equivalent of a company or squadron in infantry and Armoured. Troop is a subset on line of platoon in infantry.
So, an armored regiment squadron has 3 troops of 4 tanks each along with tank of squadron commander. Plus one more tank.
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/60 ... 24/photo/1
Secondly, IA deploying 2 x AKASH launchers instead of 4 with the BLR would also be troop level deployment.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
^^^
Writetake, I think, is AKM's Twitter handle. We could ask him to clarify.
AKM, if you read this, can you clarify the following regarding Army Akash regiment:
Writetake, I think, is AKM's Twitter handle. We could ask him to clarify.
AKM, if you read this, can you clarify the following regarding Army Akash regiment:
- What does the army officially call a formation of four launchers plus radar and control center? Is it a "battery" or "troop"?
- How many battery/troop make up an Akash regiment? Is it six?
- How many GCC are there per regiment? One, two, or three?
- How many Akash missiles per regiment?
- How many more are planned beyond the first two Akash regiments?
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Rather importing Milan 3 , Milan 3 ER and the likes, BDL is doing import substitution by developing series of 2nd generation ATGM of SACLOS guidance (more likely) with advanced features.SSridhar wrote:I am trying to understand the significance of this.sankum wrote:BDL test-fires anti-tank missile
The first variety is an IIR (Imaging Infra Red seeker) missile (now called Amogha-1). This was tested in January 2016 in Mahajan Range where it hit "bull's eye" at a range of 4 Kms (not 2.8 as the above report says). The 2.8 Km tests were done earlier in September 2015 at the Babina Range.
The latest test uses a mmW seeker. This seeker was realized in 2011 itself but had some deficiencies in hot weather conditions. Apparently, they have been overcome now. This is HeliNa fired from an aerial platform with a range of 7-8 Kms with LOAL capability?
Amogha-1 can be said as equivalent of Milan 3 /ER.
One that is reported above could be another variant (next in series) equivalent to TOW2 RF missile.
Just as Javelin/TOW with US army we might be having Nag/Amogha.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Srai/Karan
AFAIK, a missile AD group would have the 3D CAR and GCC held centrally at HQ's with 4 AD batteries. Batteries are further divided into 2 missile troops each.
What is possibly new here is that Battery surveillance radars have been possibly done away with.
Although that could well be a typo and what is listed as a troop is actually a battery.
The IA configurations are bound to be larger as they protect an strike corps unlike the IAF for its BDZ.
It is similar to the tracked configurations

AFAIK, a missile AD group would have the 3D CAR and GCC held centrally at HQ's with 4 AD batteries. Batteries are further divided into 2 missile troops each.
What is possibly new here is that Battery surveillance radars have been possibly done away with.
Although that could well be a typo and what is listed as a troop is actually a battery.
The IA configurations are bound to be larger as they protect an strike corps unlike the IAF for its BDZ.
It is similar to the tracked configurations
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Let us discuss at k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a AT r e d i f f m a i l DOT c o mAkshay Kapoor wrote:Guys I would love to do a analysis of where the these IAF Sqdns would be stationed. But purely wiki analysis of logical areas, no classified info or chaiwalla please. We know the first two are at Pune and Gwalior.
This is my favourite topic !!
Kersi
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
A good analysis of Indian SAM Network is here (2010). Good starting point since Akash would most likely fill in the void left by retiring Pechoras.Akshay Kapoor wrote:Guys I would love to do a analysis of where the these IAF Sqdns would be stationed. But purely wiki analysis of logical areas, no classified info or chaiwalla please. We know the first two are at Pune and Gwalior.
IMINT & Analysis: The Indian SAM Network
24 Pechora Squadrons deployments shown below. Note there are no deployment in the NorthEast!

Likely Akash Squadrons (2 + 6 + 7) deployments ... following Su-30MKI bases:
West
- Pune (widely reported) -> Su-30MKI base; would have replaced Pechora deployed there
- Gwalior (widely reported)
- Halwara (likely) -> Su-30MKI base (would replace Pechora)
- Sirsa (likely) -> Su-30MKI base (would replace Pechora)
- Bhuj (likely) -> Su-30MKI base (would replace Pechora)
- Bhatinda (likely) -> Su-30MKI base (would replace Pechora)
- Ambala (likely) -> planned Rafale base (would replace Pechora)
- Tezpur (likely) -> Su-30MKI base
- Chabua (likely) -> Su-30MKI base
- Hasimara (likely) -> planned Rafale base
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Rohit, troop level radar is the correct designation.. its all over DRDO, BEL literature.
Vaibhav, going by memory, the BSR was a Polish N-22 2D radar so that troops could operate autonomously.. i dont think IA exercised that option.
Vaibhav, going by memory, the BSR was a Polish N-22 2D radar so that troops could operate autonomously.. i dont think IA exercised that option.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Karan,
Did you mean this is the troop level radar?
http://www.newsvoir.com/images/article/ ... 0Radar.JPG
You could be right, but that would give an abnormally high number of 32 launchers for the missile group.
I need to dig more on this.
Did you mean this is the troop level radar?
http://www.newsvoir.com/images/article/ ... 0Radar.JPG
You could be right, but that would give an abnormally high number of 32 launchers for the missile group.
I need to dig more on this.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
srai wrote:A good analysis of Indian SAM Network is here (2010). Good starting point since Akash would most likely fill in the void left by retiring Pechoras.Akshay Kapoor wrote:Guys I would love to do a analysis of where the these IAF Sqdns would be stationed. But purely wiki analysis of logical areas, no classified info or chaiwalla please. We know the first two are at Pune and Gwalior.
IMINT & Analysis: The Indian SAM Network
24 Pechora Squadrons deployments shown below. Note there are no deployment in the NorthEast!
Likely Akash Squadrons (2 + 6 + 7) deployments ... following Su-30MKI bases:
WestNorth-East
- Pune (widely reported) -> Su-30MKI base; would have replaced Pechora deployed there
- Gwalior (widely reported)
- Halwara (likely) -> Su-30MKI base (would replace Pechora)
- Sirsa (likely) -> Su-30MKI base (would replace Pechora)
- Bhuj (likely) -> Su-30MKI base (would replace Pechora)
- Bhatinda (likely) -> Su-30MKI base (would replace Pechora)
- Ambala (likely) -> planned Rafale base (would replace Pechora)
- Tezpur (likely) -> Su-30MKI base
- Chabua (likely) -> Su-30MKI base
- Hasimara (likely) -> planned Rafale base
An excellent starting place
But outdated. Not changed since years
ALL he bases in north and west but NONE in east have SA 3 batteries.
As of now I have located Akash batteries at Gwalior and Pune only
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Does Tezpur have THD 1955 long range radar ?
I think it is there at Shillong
Kersi
I think it is there at Shillong
Kersi
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
If the Akash (or any other SAM/SSM) batteries are outside the air base then it may be very difficult to fond them unless the chaiwalla (NOT Shri Modi !!!!) reveals the location.
AND there are / were SA 3 batteries outside the air bases
AND there are / were SA 3 batteries outside the air bases
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Vaibhav, yes, TLR is the IA variant of the Rajendra.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Lets definitely not try to get chaiwala info for this. No point in helping the enemy. Lets focus on where we would put them and what an ideal network would be without specific comments on the current network. We need to be very cautious on this.Kersi D wrote:If the Akash (or any other SAM/SSM) batteries are outside the air base then it may be very difficult to fond them unless the chaiwalla (NOT Shri Modi !!!!) reveals the location.
AND there are / were SA 3 batteries outside the air bases
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
AKji, Then why do this here? Use GDF.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Ramanaji,
I am not sure I understand your comment. Let me clarify what I am saying - lets not give away classified information on our AD newtork (radar and SAM placements)through chaiwala sources that some of us (including myself) might have access to. Enemy espionage is on the increase using all kinds sources (pretending to MOD, calling officers athome pretending to be senior officers from a different formation, getting information about formation movements from children, calling NCOs/JCOs pretending to be senior officers) so lets just be evaluate every post we make carefully.
I am not saying we are doing it but just sounding a note of caution for all of us including myself. That is why I did not post the bridging (amroured vehicles discussion thread) information I have collected.
What is GDF ?
I am not sure I understand your comment. Let me clarify what I am saying - lets not give away classified information on our AD newtork (radar and SAM placements)through chaiwala sources that some of us (including myself) might have access to. Enemy espionage is on the increase using all kinds sources (pretending to MOD, calling officers athome pretending to be senior officers from a different formation, getting information about formation movements from children, calling NCOs/JCOs pretending to be senior officers) so lets just be evaluate every post we make carefully.
I am not saying we are doing it but just sounding a note of caution for all of us including myself. That is why I did not post the bridging (amroured vehicles discussion thread) information I have collected.
What is GDF ?
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Precisely. its called compilation putting 2 and 2 together and getting 4 and not just 2 , 2....Akshay Kapoor wrote:Ramanaji,
I am not sure I understand your comment. Let me clarify what I am saying - lets not give away classified information on our AD newtork (radar and SAM placements)through chaiwala sources that some of us (including myself) might have access to. Enemy espionage is on the increase using all kinds sources (pretending to MOD, calling officers athome pretending to be senior officers from a different formation, getting information about formation movements from children, calling NCOs/JCOs pretending to be senior officers) so lets just be evaluate every post we make carefully.
I am not saying we are doing it but just sounding a note of caution for all of us including myself. That is why I did not post the bridging (amroured vehicles discussion thread) information I have collected.
What is GDF ?
GDF is
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewforum.php
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Missile Squadron HQ with SCC would be at an airbase. But unlike Pechoras, Akash combat flights are much more mobile and could be placed up to 25km away from SCC. That would mean an Akash squadron's two combat flights would create a SAM bubble between 30km and 100km in the vicinity of an airbase where their HQ is located. Basically, much better BADZ coverage than Pechoras.Kersi D wrote:If the Akash (or any other SAM/SSM) batteries are outside the air base then it may be very difficult to fond them unless the chaiwalla (NOT Shri Modi !!!!) reveals the location.
AND there are / were SA 3 batteries outside the air bases
Other thing to point out is that Pechora battery can only engage one target at a time. Akash system allows for engagement of up to 4 targets simultaneously. So from a squadron only able to engage 2 targets at a time (one each for Pechora combat flight), now with two Akash combat flights up to 8 targets can be engaged at one go. Big jump in capability against saturation attacks.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
If you look at the plaque on that truck, it clearly says "Troop Level Radar".vaibhav.n wrote:Karan,
Did you mean this is the troop level radar?
http://www.newsvoir.com/images/article/ ... 0Radar.JPG
You could be right, but that would give an abnormally high number of 32 launchers for the missile group.
I need to dig more on this.
Here is what it seems to be:
- Akash Troop -> 1 x TLR; 1 x TCC; 4 x AAL
- Akash Battery (or Company) -> 2 (or more) x Akash Troops
- Akash Regiment -> 2-3 x "Batteries" (equivalent to 6 x Akash Troops); 1 x Technical Troop; 1 x Maintenance Troop; 1 x HQ (3D CAR + CCC)
- 24 x AAL
- 6 x TLR
- 6 x TCC
- 1 x 3D CAR (there may be additional reserves)
- 1 x CCC
- Support vehicles -> a whole host of vehicles (image below)
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Srai,
IA missile groups are larger in size and have 4 missile batteries. That would give us 32 akash launchers not 24.
Troop level radars are definite plus, would allow commanders to site troops to cover a larger area. Very different from the current russian influenced warfighting.
IA missile groups are larger in size and have 4 missile batteries. That would give us 32 akash launchers not 24.
Troop level radars are definite plus, would allow commanders to site troops to cover a larger area. Very different from the current russian influenced warfighting.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
I'm still not ready to buy this 'troop level radar' argument and tie it with the organization of an Akash AD Regiment. Equipment allocation is dependent on organization structure and not the other way around.vaibhav.n wrote:Srai,
IA missile groups are larger in size and have 4 missile batteries. That would give us 32 akash launchers not 24.
Troop level radars are definite plus, would allow commanders to site troops to cover a larger area. Very different from the current russian influenced warfighting.
Army AD Missile Regiment has four batteries and Rajendra is a Battery Level Radar (BLR). This battery can engage four targets simultaneously with max of 2 missiles per target (simultaneously).
Now, if we've reached a situation that each Troop in a battery has a Rajendra radar than we're talking about a battery being able to engage 8 targets simultaneously with two launchers per Troop and Radar. But more importantly, it allows me to use a battery at sub-component level (not possible earlier) and further spread the AD coverage.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
SA-6 Groups had 12 batteries each. There were 25 SA-6 systems purchased from Soviet Union and these were divided into two groups.vaibhav.n wrote:Srai,
IA missile groups are larger in size and have 4 missile batteries. That would give us 32 akash launchers not 24.
Troop level radars are definite plus, would allow commanders to site troops to cover a larger area. Very different from the current russian influenced warfighting.
The IA has decided to get away from that "Group" nomenclature and instead adopted "Regiment" for Akash. Note that the Akash group concept is not the same as the SA-6 "Group", which were denoted to a much larger formation. To add to further confusion, the IA has adopted "Troop" nomenclature to mean what is generally known as "Battery".
Yes, an Akash in a group mode can have one CCC control up to 4 Troops. But that doesn't mean 4 are necessarily assigned to it. Take the IAF Akash squadron for example operating two flights only even though they could control four combat flights. All news reports so far have indicated that an Akash regiment consists of 6 firing units (using a more generic term used by reporters). Now the confusion is what do this "FU" really consist of? It would seem so far the reporters are happy with just that level of understanding as they are not asking a more detailed question on quantities or formations.
One thing is there may be up to 3 CCCs and 3D-CARs in a regiment with each controlling 2 Akash Troops (or more possibly). Each of these (1 x CCC, 1 x 3D-CAR, and 2 x Akash Troops) could be now called "battery"/"company". Three of these plus other support elements would then make up an Akash regiment. Given that 2500 Akash missiles have been bought (1000 of which are for the IAF's 8 squadrons), that means 750 missiles per regiment with 6 "FU"s. This comes out to around 125 missiles/"FU" whereas for the IAF it was 125 missiles/squadron with each flight 62 missiles. So there could be more number of units hidden under the "FU" being thrown around by reporters.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Srai,
Firing Unit = DRDO/Manufacturer terminology for 4 launchers + Troop Level Radar
Firing Unit is a flight in IAF (as you rightly pointed out) and 2 Flights + Technical Flight = Squadron
Firing Units is a troop in IA. But how many troops make a battery and how many batteries in a regt - that is causing some confusion. My guess is 2 troops = Battery and 3 batteries = regt.
I am willing to bet a case of old monk that a battery is not called a troop in IA.
Firing Unit = DRDO/Manufacturer terminology for 4 launchers + Troop Level Radar
Firing Unit is a flight in IAF (as you rightly pointed out) and 2 Flights + Technical Flight = Squadron
Firing Units is a troop in IA. But how many troops make a battery and how many batteries in a regt - that is causing some confusion. My guess is 2 troops = Battery and 3 batteries = regt.
I am willing to bet a case of old monk that a battery is not called a troop in IA.
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 05 Apr 2016 12:15, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
^^^
If you look at the old brochures, 4 launchers, rajendra radar (BLR), command (BCC) and 2D surveillance radar (BSR) was known as a "battery". But now that formation (minus the 2D radar) is known as "Troop".
If you look at the old brochures, 4 launchers, rajendra radar (BLR), command (BCC) and 2D surveillance radar (BSR) was known as a "battery". But now that formation (minus the 2D radar) is known as "Troop".
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
exactly and for IAF that 'troop' is a flight and 2 flights is a squadron (with BLR Rajendra ?)
For IA that 'troop' is a 'troop' and I think (conjecture here) 2 troops = Battery and 3 batteries = Regt with GCC. Question is where does the BLR Rajendra fit in in Army configuration.
For IA that 'troop' is a 'troop' and I think (conjecture here) 2 troops = Battery and 3 batteries = Regt with GCC. Question is where does the BLR Rajendra fit in in Army configuration.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
[/quote]ramana wrote:
What is GDF ?
GDF is
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewforum.php[/quote]
Says Link does not exist
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
Troop. Squadrons. Regiments. Batteries
I M TOTALLY CONFUSED
I M TOTALLY CONFUSED
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14
The army in the last round seems to have went for quite a bit of change to original configuration. They completely changed the AAL to 8x8 wheeled configuration along with everything else to be on similar platform. Then they also changed the formation concept to what we see now.Akshay Kapoor wrote:...
For IA that 'troop' is a 'troop' and I think (conjecture here) 2 troops = Battery and 3 batteries = Regt with GCC. Question is where does the BLR Rajendra fit in in Army configuration.
BLR Rajendra is the TLR now. Same system (upgraded) except on 8x8 wheeled platform.

That's why I think the "Battery" has now evolved from 2-D BSR (with 4 launchers, BLR, BCC) to 3D-CAR and GCC (as in Akash group mode). And these would be capable of controlling up to 4 Troops (formerly known as "battery" but minus the 2-D radar).
Just to put things in perspective (been following Akash program for a long time), here is the breakdown of original concept and the new concept for the IA.
Original Concept
- Akash Battery -> 4 ASPL + BLR + BCC + BSR
- Akash Group -> Group HQ (3D CAR + GCC + support vehicles) + up to 4 Akash Batteries
Latest Concept
- Akash Troop -> 4 AAL + TLR + TCC
- Akash "Battery" -> HQ (3D CAR + GCC + support vehicles) + 2 (or more) Akash Troops
- Akash Regiment -> 3 "Batteries" (6 Troops equivalent) + HQ + other support Troops (Technical/Maintenance)
