Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion

Leonard · Post by **Leonard** » 11 Mar 2021 05:07

Some stuff from a US F14 pilot who engaged with Paki Fizzleya in exercises ..
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... -aggressor

>>
I flew BFM against a variety of dissimilar aircraft as a Tomcat pilot. During a memorable week off the coast of Pakistan we flew a number of BFM and BVR sorties against the Pakistani Air Force. I still have some spectacular HUD footage from engagements against MiG-21s (J-7s).

I remember being amazed at the lack of proficiency and proper weapons employment from their F-16 pilots.

When we were in the Persian Gulf, we had a week where we fought the Emirati Mirage 2000-5 pilots. They were actually quite aggressive pilots who displayed a keen awareness of the tactics to employ against the weaknesses of the F-14A. They would jam to the merge, then pull 9Gs, flying so high we almost lost sight. If we did, they would tag us with a heater (infrared short-range guided missile). But if you could survive the first merge to employ follow-on BFM, they became easy prey.

Probably the single best BFM platform I ever flew against was the F-16N. Stripped down and slicked up, it was a dogfighting monster, virtually unbeatable.

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Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Mar 2021 05:24

Dutifully illustrated at Balakot. Well done Pakistan Air Force!

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 11 Mar 2021 11:33

rohitvats wrote:I wonder where did the Greeks of all people got the details about JF-17 operational issues.

One likely scenario. Turkish sources planted this information in greek media. Turkey likely maintains sources in Greek system. This to get better negotiation position with Pakistan or perhaps undermine JF-17. They are discussing joint projects.

Another, Greek Intelligence picked it - undermining Pak JF-17 may reduce the allure of joint projects with Pakistan in Turkish system.

Remember Turkish JF-17 is good for Erdogan, not Turkey. Erdo's hawkish policies have made turkey a pariah, there military personnel might be feeling the heat but cant disagree openly. Nixing partnership with Pakistan will be good for other institutions in Turkey.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 11 Mar 2021 14:45

Leonard wrote:Some stuff from a US F14 pilot who engaged with Paki Fizzleya in exercises ..
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... -aggressor

>>
I flew BFM against a variety of dissimilar aircraft as a Tomcat pilot. During a memorable week off the coast of Pakistan we flew a number of BFM and BVR sorties against the Pakistani Air Force. I still have some spectacular HUD footage from engagements against MiG-21s (J-7s).

I remember being amazed at the lack of proficiency and proper weapons employment from their F-16 pilots.

When we were in the Persian Gulf, we had a week where we fought the Emirati Mirage 2000-5 pilots. They were actually quite aggressive pilots who displayed a keen awareness of the tactics to employ against the weaknesses of the F-14A. They would jam to the merge, then pull 9Gs, flying so high we almost lost sight. If we did, they would tag us with a heater (infrared short-range guided missile). But if you could survive the first merge to employ follow-on BFM, they became easy prey.

Probably the single best BFM platform I ever flew against was the F-16N. Stripped down and slicked up, it was a dogfighting monster, virtually unbeatable.

<<

Priceless! He picked them out for special mention! Must tell you how lousy they would've been..

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 11 Mar 2021 17:50

From the same interview... words from the wise

There is a glut of third generation fighters on the world market - Mirage F-1s, F-5s, A-4s – that are being upgraded with AESA radars, top line RWR gear, jamming pods, and other fifth generation toys, making them capable adversaries to F-35s and F-22s and at a fraction of the hull costs.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 11 Mar 2021 19:24

Has anyone seen this JY-27A anti-stealth radar anywhere else in Pakistan? Sep 2019. Mianwali airbase. 32°33'4.44"N 71°33'32.22"E
When and where were HQ-9s spotted?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 11 Mar 2021 20:38

US blocks Turkey's 30 locally-made attack helicopter sale to Pakistan

The United States has prevented Turkey from supplying 30 locally made attack helicopters to Pakistan, Turkish Presidential spokesperson Ibrahim Kalin said.

During a briefing on Monday, Kalin noted that the US blocked Turkey's helicopter sale to Pakistan, which will likely lead to Islamabad buying it from China and cause more detriment to Washington down the line, Daily Sabah reported.
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Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 11 Mar 2021 22:04

You have to admire the Pakis for no bureaucracy as far as military procurement are concerned.

The turkish helos are comparable to LCH and probably purchased to anticipating our procurement of LCH.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 12 Mar 2021 01:21

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 87777?s=20 ---> Report: Pakistan's finance ministry officials call emergency meeting after UAE demands repayment of $1 billion loan in 24 hours.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 57730?s=20 ---> Report: China currently operating 5 Confucius Institutes in Pakistan to teach 'Chinese culture & language' to Pakistani youth, plans to set up more such institutes.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 12 Mar 2021 01:25

Read the post above and then see this....

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Mar 2021 03:37

Someone once tweeted "If US doesn't give money to Pakistan, Pakistan will have no options but to take money from China"

I thought it was satire. Apparently it is a real threat.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 14 Mar 2021 09:35

And quite frankly in Paki experience it has worked well. The day the West realizes that their present strategy is a disaster for themselves only then the life support plug this artificial state is on will be pulled.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Mar 2021 23:02

https://twitter.com/nailainayat/status/ ... 61251?s=20 ---> Art imitates reality.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Mar 2021 02:44

1980s Pakistan Air Force documentary

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Mar 2021 05:10

F-35s for the PAF, high hopes ?! The US is seriously considering cutting down on the programme,virtual closure given its staggering costs and fractional combat deployability,the head of the Congressional committee calling it a " rathole".Secondly, the Chinks being so far up the nether end of the Pakis,the US will want no more pilfering of US aerospace secrets as the Pakis in debt to the Chinks upto their noses, will pass on willingly any secrets of firang milware. They are fit to fly only the JF-17 "Blunder" in all its variants. Anything else the Chinks feel they can handle .....and pay for (!), may arrive later.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Mar 2021 02:54

Air Marshal Haseeb Paracha has been appointed as VCAS. He lobbied hard for CAS post.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 36332?s=20 ---> New PAF Chief Zaheer A. Babar has less than 2000 flying hours in his career, which is the lowest flying exp for a PAF CAS in 4 decades.

Air Marshal Zaheer Babar @ left

Air Marshal Haseeb Paracha @ right

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Mar 2021 14:31

Any chance that many in the PAF don't exactly know what happened on 27-Feb-19, are unaware of F-16 losses, Amraam misses, and you do not deliberately miss after using PGM's and there was no SU-30MKI hit?

Wonder when do the Pakistani Armed forces men realize their missiles and Nukes are not indigenous and much of their propaganda is false.

Personally I hope many are blind to reality and a majority of them in the dark, it will contribute more mistakes by them in future without lessons being learnt.

Imagine being the PAF knowing the truth but having to tell your family and everyone around false stories? How DG ISPR say no F-16 used in Swift retreat? How does a PAF officer come on TV and says a nearly intact Amraam missile must have been recovered from a downed SU-30MKI? How many know what are lies and what is the truth?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 18 Mar 2021 15:49

Aditya_V wrote:Any chance that many in the PAF don't exactly know what happened on 27-Feb-19, are unaware of F-16 losses, Amraam misses, and you do not deliberately miss after using PGM's and there was no SU-30MKI hit?

Wonder when do the Pakistani Armed forces men realize their missiles and Nukes are not indigenous and much of their propaganda is false.

Personally I hope many are blind to reality and a majority of them in the dark, it will contribute more mistakes by them in future without lessons being learnt.

Imagine being the PAF knowing the truth but having to tell your family and everyone around false stories? How DG ISPR say no F-16 used in Swift retreat? How does a PAF officer come on TV and says a nearly intact Amraam missile must have been recovered from a downed SU-30MKI? How many know what are lies and what is the truth?

Sometime back i went to official PAF website - they still state ludicrous MM Alam claims from '65. PAF has a tradition of officially lying and it is something I have never understood.

You are talking about a country which believes its own lies. Everybody knows that lying is accepted way of conducting business in the country, which perhaps explains why Pakistanis love conspiracy theories as they try to uncover hidden truths in every development.

This is a commentary on the low moral standing of their nation - their heroes, such Wg Cdr Siddiqui have no qualms in accepting an award for a fictitious achievement, no issues in coming on stage and goes ahead and poses for pictures in the "museum". If these are your heroes then what can you expect of the common man?

wig · Post by **wig** » 28 Mar 2021 09:38

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... nry/738017
Pakistan Army's Special Service Group looking to buy high-quality weaponry

excerpted from above

The SSG, which often supports terrorists in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir in their attacks on the Indian Army's border posts, is keen to buy high-quality weapons. They include:

1 The M4A1 Colt assault rifle, which is an improved version of the M4 and is used by the U.S. special forces. The M4 is a regular with most units of the US Army

2 The AN/PVS-14 monocular night vision device, used not only by the US armed forces but also its NATO allies.

3 The more advanced ATPIAL/AN/PEQ-15 or the Advanced Target Pointer Illuminator Aiming Light. This is also with the US Armed forces.

4 Thermal imaging stand-alone sights for the M-4 assault rifles. This is, of course, for night fighting.

5 The Minimi or the M249 light machine gun, the American version of a Belgian weapon. It has been a mainstay of the American armed forces personnel for over two decades.

6 The Glock-19 9mm pistol, Austrian-made and widely in use all over the world.

7 Binoculars using thermal imaging. The SSG is clearly working on improving it's night fighting capabilities.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Mar 2021 19:42

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 84546?s=20 ---> Report: The increasing U.S.-versus-China rivalry has left heads spinning in Pakistani establishment, admitted a Pakistani official. Pakistan is concerned as they will not be able to take advantage from both sides and will have to choose a side.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Apr 2021 05:27

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 10817?s=20 ---> Unconfirmed reports that Pentagon blocked USAF from sending fighters jets to Pakistan for an ongoing aerial exercise (Aces Meet 2021). Only a non-flying US contingent (JTACs, Bt managers) will participate. Confirmation awaited.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Apr 2021 05:39

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 00099?s=20 ---> Pakistan applies for soft loan from China for purchasing FD-2000 air defence systems with 125 km range.

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 26501?s=20 ---> The Rudram series pre-empted this purchase.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 06 Apr 2021 08:04

FD-2000 is the export (downgraded) version of the Chinese HQ 9 which itself is the reverse engineered and less capable version of the S300

Nevertheless there will be now posts/blogs by Porkis claiming FD-2000 can detect and target missiles launched from outside the solar system and how it is superior to the S400 to be acquired by India.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Apr 2021 23:03

Why does not Bajwa himself come to Delhi?

He does not need the Pak PM's permission.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 79265?s=20 ---> Report: Pak Army chief Bajwa wants meeting between Indian PM Modi and Pak PM Impran Khan.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 07 Apr 2021 14:50

Good example of Paki ammo quality.

Of course it might well be that the POF ammo is perfect for the weapons made locally at Darra Adam Khel

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Apr 2021 05:13

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 85285?s=20 ---> Pak Army Chief, General Bajwa is scared that this time his 111 Brigade instead of capturing Pak PMO, may end up capturing GHQ.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 20 Apr 2021 10:23

Rakesh wrote:

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 85285?s=20 ---> Pak Army Chief, General Bajwa is scared that this time his 111 Brigade instead of capturing Pak PMO, may end up capturing GHQ.

That way Paki military has been very disciplined, no Yahya takeover from Ayub types in last few years, lower ranks quietly retire

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Apr 2021 18:43

Aditya_V wrote:That way Paki military has been very disciplined, no Yahya takeover from Ayub types in last few years, lower ranks quietly retire

Paki military is well aware now of international repercussions if a military coup d'etat is even attempted. The last time it happened under mushy in 1999, PA was given a lifeline due to 9/11.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 May 2021 18:54

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 09632?s=20 ---> Pakistan Army will not be able to fight a war lasting even for just 24 hours, alleges senior Pakistan politician Fazlur Rehman.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 May 2021 18:55

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 25474?s=20 ---> US to continue maintenance of electronic warfare suites on-board Pakistani F-16s till 2026. PAF F-16 uses ALQ-211(V)9 as it's EW systems.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 08 May 2021 13:50

Any idea about these ships at Gwadar?

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 08 May 2021 18:52

jamwal wrote: Any idea about these ships at Gwadar?

The ship on the right, which is visible on current google earth also, looks like a type 21 Tariq class Destroyer. The length matches.
The one on the left I can't place. It looks like something under construction, but Pakistan's only shipyard is in Karachi not Gwadar.
Interestingly there is (current google earth image) no Navy vessel in the Navy jetty at Gwadar, these ships are in the civil port.
(probably because there are none of the Chinese ships expected under CPEC using the port).

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 11 May 2021 19:15

Astonishing data point from Alan Warnes' latest AFM article on the JF-17..

There is also speculation that the Klimov RD93 powerplant which has flown more than 30,000 hours with the PAF JF-17s will be replaced by a different Chinese engine.

However, back in 2018, ACM Mujahid Anwar Khan – who retired in mid-March after three years as PAF commander – told AFM: “On the RD93 engine, we are satisfied after having flown 19,000 hours with no problems. We have had a smoke issue, but that has now been substantially reduced. We know how to manage the engine and have had no problems with spares. They come to us from Russia via China. And we are aiming to establish an engine maintenance plant in Pakistan, at the 102 Air Engineering Depot (AED), to overhaul critical parts of the engine too. We will be setting up a universal test bed, which will enhance our strengths on the aircraft.”

Only 30,000 hours with 138 JF-17 Block I, 2 and JF-17B twin seaters between 6 squadrons..the Block 1 and 2s have been flying since 11 years..clearly, this JF-17 fleet is having some sort of reliability and availability issues that they're not making a big fuss about..an average of 3,000-4000 hours of flight time per year between such a large number of JF-17s means that

Back in 2018, they had only crossed 18,000 hours and flown 12,000 more hours in 2 years and some months. Averaging 6000 hours per year for the 128 strong fleet gives just 46 hours per fighter per year!! Assuming each sortie lasts half an hour only, that's just 90 sorties for the year on average per JF-17! That's an average of 7.5 sorties per month per JF-17!! That's quite abysmal.

Clearly, this fleet has major reliability issues that are being swept under the carpet to preserve the PAF's izzat and the stature of the program amongst the Pakis.

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 11 May 2021 23:45

Or may be they are saving precious aviation fuel and engine life and practicing primarily in simulators. Jf17 anyways don't need much tactics so as to fly the real thing right, take off .. shoot and scoot and finally land back.

For indian arm chair generals, only the flying hours in F16 should be checked, as they might be getting good support from US now

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 12 May 2021 00:16

Aren't they doing mercenary work for Gulf nations... and their new 4.5 father Turkey (especially after the Sultan fired a lot of the top pilots from the Turkish AF in fear of a coup)

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Jun 2021 14:07

This is regarding the exercies between Turkey- Qatar- and Pakistan where PAF has 4 or 5 JF 17.

Any idea how these aircraft reached Turkey, any videos of Aerial refuelling by PAF Jf-17's. Did they stop over and hopped between Iranian Airbases? or did they fly to Gulf and Flew over Iraq?

Any details how these aircraft move between Pakistan and Turkey and back.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 30 Jun 2021 21:26

https://theprint.in/defence/satellite-i ... 87345/?amp

Satellite images reveal Pakistan’s new midget submarine, site for joint project with China
The size and location of the midget submarine indicates its covert capability, and increases Pakistan's ability to deploy special forces, potentially along the Indian coast.
atest satellite imagery has revealed Pakistan’s new midget submarine, used by its special forces for undertaking covert operations, as well as the probable site for a joint project with China to build new conventional submarines.

Popular Twitter handle @detresfa, that specialises in satellite imagery put out pictures of the Karachi port which had the unknown type mini sub, “finally seen without the tarpaulin cover”.

“That is a fraction of the size of a regular submarine. Its location and size both point to use by the Pakistani Navy’s Special Service Group, known as SSG (N),” he had written.

He had also explained that this category of submarine is called an X-Craft in Pakistani Navy parlance.

“The term was inherited from the Italian manufacturer Cos.Mo.S (commonly written Cosmos) who sold Pakistan two sets of midget submarines in the past…” he wrote.

Speaking to ThePrint, Sutton said the midget submarine seen in the latest satellite images is the new one and most likely indigenous.

Even their navy is focused towards terrorism rather than safeguarding seas.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Jul 2021 14:20

Italian navy during WW2 did a quite a lot of damage to the royal navy in Alexandria. They nearly succeed with Gibraltar and again failed in Malta.

Has to be taken seriously.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Jul 2021 18:29

Pakistan Army inducts first batch of VT-4 battle tanks

Produced by Chinese state-owned armoured vehicle manufacturer, Norinco, the delivery of VT-4 tanks from the manufacturer began in April last year.

Pakistan is the third country to have bought these tanks from China after Thailand and Nigeria.

In a statement at the time, the ISPR had said the tank would be employed in an offensive role by strike formations after induction.

“The VT-4 is compatible with any modern tank in the world integrating advanced armour protection, maneuverability, fire power capabilities and state-of-the-art technology,” the statement had said.

From Vicky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT-4

The VT-4 main battle tank, also known as the MBT3000, is a Chinese third generation main battle tank built by Norinco for overseas export. The VT-4 tank is derived from the Al-Khalid tank.

Harami link: https://www.dawn.com/news/1632542/pakis ... ttle-tanks

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Jul 2021 11:44

So VT-4 is say T-80 with higher armour weighing 52 tonnes with a 1200HP diesel engine and Torsion Bar. It has good power to weight ratio. Apparently can fire Hesh rounds from a Smoothbore- dont know its effectives of Hesh from a smotthbore