Indian Education System

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Jun 2011 12:11

ASPuar wrote: Why do we not have Engineering colleges which teach in Hindi, or Sanskrit, or Marathi, or Telegu, or Tamil, or Bengali?

Can one not be a competent engineer in these languages? Or a competent Economist? Or Manager? Or Doctor?

Macaulay really scr*wed us over!

Sir ji, here it is not just Macaulay who is to blame onlee. Try even studying basic science in any of the Indian languages and see how quickly it becomes unwieldy. A lot of it is due to the fact that the colonizing powers of Oirope got a monopoly on most scientific research and it is their languages onlee which shaped scientific nomenclature and still continue to be widely used in mainstream science . One can see a lot of publications in Chinese, Japanese and Korean but they have never reached the mainstream like these Oiropean languages have. In context of using Indian languages in science, we had lost the war a few centuries ago.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Jun 2011 15:13

while we give the examples of german and japanese scientists, 99% have to learn english in order to make it in the big league (i.e anything above teaching position at UG college), because like it or not english has become the de facto language for doing science. without knowing english the chances are you will be left out, whoever you are.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 21 Jun 2011 16:58

asp,

science and engineering moves on a daily basis. direct access to english is the best way to access science. relying on translations delays information access.

you can think in your native language but you must be able to access english. during my puc days more than half of my class was from kannada medium. the teachers used to explain everything in kannada. they used english names of scientific concepts, but the carrier language was kannada. i think that is a very good way.

one of the problems with languages we learn in school is that, we only learn the language in the language class and what we learn their is only applicable to that class. after that class, we dont apply that to any other learning. we dont apply language skills to learn science. we dont apply it learn history. so while a lot of us know the language we dont know to apply it to science, commerce.

my pet idea is: language, social studies, civics in local language. science, maths and englih in english.

atleast 3 of my marathi friends came from marathi medium schools. they write exceptionally well professionally.

i almost always avoid talking to a desi in english, if i know his language, i'll talk to him in that otherwise use hindi.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Jun 2011 17:22

shaardula wrote:during my puc days more than half of my class was from kannada medium. the teachers used to explain everything in kannada. they used english names of scientific concepts, but the carrier language was kannada. i think that is a very good way

IMO, specific cases apart, its not a great idea...One of the big challenges that firms face while recruiting, especially from Tier II or III places, is the "unemployability" of the grad..Some of it is directly related to courseware and pedagogical standards, but some of it is also simply "social and communication" skills..English plays a big role in the latter...

I think the CBSE/ICSE system works the best - English medium for all subjects, and separately, at least 2 other Indian languages till Class XIII...And then, a compulsary Indian language till Class X...

Chandrabhan Prasad has done a lot of work in studying dalit education and society in general..His conclusion is simple - Dalits should actually worship Macauley and kids should concentrate on only a few subjects - English, Maths and Science (and a couple more I think)...

I tend to agree - English, maths, science and history/civics should be compulsary..And "elective" like choices given for the others...

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 21 Jun 2011 17:35

wrt to dalit education. it is because of the tendency of indian academics to translate concepts in terms of puritanical words. the problem for majority of people is while we are all familiar with our mother tongue and understand how to express complex realities in it, our vocabulary in it is still developing. in that sense a puritanical word is as far away from us as is an english word.
prameya and axiom are equally alien to an 8-standard student. but our understanding is far more developed in our native tongue than it is in english, and so we can understand the definition of axiom or prameya if explained in our native tongue, even if we dont understand the word itself.

i think in chasing credentials for firms. we have lost articulation. a good chunk of us cannot articulate well. our english has no rasa. no intonation, no rhythm. ditto our indian language. lifeless grammatically correct language is all we can speak. 99% of people i know are humourless like that.

what is the difference between rahul gandhi speak and lalloo speak? what is the difference between bollywood stars speaking and somebody like vinay pathak etc. in how shaan sings and how kailash kher sings. between how barkha dutt and sardesai speak and how BBC's manikanth thakur files his oral reports.

in india mark of an educated person is loss of apbrahmsa. this is really a great loss.

many of my colleagues, highly professional, speak english with local accents. unschooled. in india if i talked like that i would be a 'recruiting problem for a firm' and i will quickly be gentrified.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Jun 2011 17:49

shaardula wrote:in india if i talked like that i would be a 'recruiting problem for a firm' and i will quickly be gentrified

I dont think the issue is about "accent"...Outside call centres, that isnt a criteria at all...It is about being comfortable and confident about communicating fluently and carrying oneself...

At the end of the day, english is the lingua franca of the world, and the only link language in India...In a few years, India is likely to be the largest "english speaking" country...So we had better taken advantage of that...

BTW, I think you are being very unfair to the present generation of artistes in Indian languages...For every Ashok Chakradhar or even Kaka Hathrasi, there is a Prasoon joshi today...For every Bhimsen joshi there is an Abhayankar...

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 21 Jun 2011 18:44

i doubt any of the people you mentioned is a product of ICSE board.

there is a lot of production of knowledge and dialogue in indian languages and it is likely to continue like that for foreseeable future. nothing in ICSE board prepares a student for that production. does it make the average student agreeable to firms? yes. is it likely to make the average student appreciate 'abhyankar', much less produce one? firm no.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Jun 2011 19:02

I have no idea where Prasoon Joshi graduated from, but on this you are waaaaay off the mark..

shaardula wrote:is it likely to make the average student appreciate 'abhyankar', much less produce one? firm no.

Every heard of SPICMACAY? I was the secretary of the chapter in my alma mater - its a wildly popular initiative, for the last 20-30 years, maybe more..EVerywhere, including the most "elite" of our unis and schools...

Separately, make a point to be in Delhi during the "music season" (typically in the peak of winter - Dec-Feb) - Delhi has the best classical music scene of all three metros (I am not into carnatic, so dont know about Chennai)....In any given concert, the number of <30 exceed the number of 30+ types easily...

BTW, "abhayankar" is Pt Sanjeev Abhayankar...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jun 2011 19:46

about spic-macay, many in the audience would wear shalwar for the evening to prove their indic credentials in my college and then promptly return to their hostel rooms to start iron maiden and bon jovi full blast.

I have met no student in all years of college life who listened to indian classical music in his hostel room , though such might indeed exist albeit rare species. english, bollywood, ghazals (rare but there), regional popular music - all yes. a few UBI and urbane types were into western classical.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 21 Jun 2011 20:24

I knew of only ABBA, what is iron maiden jee ?

I think what you describe is typical of Engg school snobs.

We true SDRE mommins never indulged in anything beyond Sonskriti would allow.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Jun 2011 20:33

When I craved for myoozik, I would just ask Abu chacha from next door to beat on his goat hide drum while chachi jaan would give a nautch performance.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 22 Jun 2011 07:13

Singha wrote:about spic-macay, many in the audience would wear shalwar for the evening to prove their indic credentials in my college and then promptly return to their hostel rooms to start iron maiden and bon jovi full blast

The last part is quite true, I think its got more to do with the relative "adrenaline" factor!

But thats not fully reflective..Forget SPICMACAY, the way I see it is in terms of paying public..."Paid for" programmes in Delhi overflow with the Gen X, in Calcutta of course there are mini scuffles for seats for someone like Zakir Hussain or Ajay Chakraborty..Even Mumbai, quite a phillistine in this respect, the demand for Baanganga tickets is huge....

Net net, there is no dearth of real serious interest in classical music today, in my (limited) experience, its growing...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Jun 2011 09:01

>> I think what you describe is typical of Engg school snobs.

well then NITs and IITs must be full of them onlee. I would say english and bollywood rule the hostel music scene, with a strong segment of mother tongue music too because students do get a bit homesick for their cultural contexts. the Phd drunkards get into ghazals and sufi music maybe...bhujia and whisky/old monk flow quite strongly.

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Jun 2011 09:31

Iron Maiden is to heavy metal scene what Yesudas and SPB saar are to south Indian cinema or say what Gautam Chattopadhyay , Potta da and Rupam Islam are to West Bengal's rock music scene. There is an appropriate band/genre of music for every occassion; Iron Maiden is a benchmark for every aspiring rock band out there. When one is in 17-21 age group and just coming to terms with booze and ganja nothing calms your senses better than head banging to Aces High, Trooper or even 'be quick or be dead'.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 22 Jun 2011 09:34

Singha wrote: I have met no student in all years of college life who listened to indian classical music in his hostel room , though such might indeed exist albeit rare species. english, bollywood, ghazals (rare but there), regional popular music - all yes. a few UBI and urbane types were into western classical.

I was such a student

I do listen to Western pop music too, but no Iron maiden, too "hardcore"

However I must admit having an unfortunate hatred of Rabindrasangeeth, kindled no doubt by early exposure to things like "Amra chaash kori anande".

Anyway isn't this better off in Nukkad/Sherayo

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Jun 2011 09:47

ASPuar wrote: Why do we not have Engineering colleges which teach in Hindi, or Sanskrit, or Marathi, or Telegu, or Tamil, or Bengali? Can one not be a competent engineer in these languages? Or a competent Economist? Or Manager? Or Doctor?

A good summary of Mathematics in ancient India is available here. However, you will be called a Hindutva-waadi if you use the information present there.

It is known to most students of science that people like Gauss, Fourier, Laplace, Lagrange, Leibniz and Galois did not write their papers/books in English.

In last 100 years, at least some papers by people like Poincare and Einstein are not in English. For example:

Einstein, Albert (1905a), "Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper", Annalen der Physik 322 (10): 891–921, Bibcode 1905AnP...322..891E, doi:10.1002/andp.19053221004.

Einstein, Albert (1905b), "Ist die Trägheit eines Körpers von seinem Energieinhalt abhängig?", Annalen der Physik 323 (13): 639–643, Bibcode 1905AnP...323..639E, doi:10.1002/andp.19053231314.

Einstein, Albert (1906), "Das Prinzip von der Erhaltung der Schwerpunktsbewegung und die Trägheit der Energie", Annalen der Physik 325 (8): 627–633, Bibcode 1906AnP...325..627E,

Poincaré, H. (1900), "La théorie de Lorentz et le principe de réaction", Archives néerlandaises des sciences exactes et naturelles 5: 252–278.

Poincaré, H. (1900), "Les relations entre la physique expérimentale et la physique mathématique", Revue générale des sciences pures et appliquées 11: 1163–1175

In last 50 years, the preliminary version of Taniyama–Shimura conjecture was in Japanese. (It played an important role in the proof of Fermat's last theorem.)

So is it impossible to do quality research in other languages? No. Is it difficult and tedious? Yes.

(Of course, we will need to translate books/journals. Translations of some books are already available.(see hereand here. Amartya Sen's books are also available in many languages.))

As Bose-babu said, we lost this battle many centuries ago. Given the attitude of our citizens, there is not much hope.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jun 2011 10:35

Nalanda - the soul of Magadha

http://www.bcmtouring.com/forum/travelo ... ns-t28491/

the exposed brick style seems to be ancient feature of the ganga-yamuna region...in modern india this style was used in many famous places including iit-kanpur, iit-delhi and JNU-delhi.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 23 Jun 2011 17:35

i know pt. abhayankar. i put it in quotes to say people like him.

i too have volunteered to organize spic-macay events. the hulchul you mentioned seems like the happenings on a random tuesday in the part of the country i'm familiar with.

my point is simple. just learning language in a language class does not give you any useful facility with that language. there is a lot of knowledge and dialogue in indian languages. ICSE type schooling does not provide you with any skills to either produce such knowledge or actively participate in such dialogues.

the discussions in indian languages are mostly about ourselves and our surroundings and comes from multiple sources within our own communities. and hence very important.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 23 Jun 2011 17:36

thanks for that link. check out the tourists in those nalanda fotos.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 23 Jun 2011 18:04

shaardula wrote:the hulchul you mentioned seems like the happenings on a random tuesday in the part of the country i'm familiar with.

my point is simple. just learning language in a language class does not give you any useful facility with that language. there is a lot of knowledge and dialogue in indian languages

#2 - I agree with you completely...The question however was more in terms of education to prepare kids for "material life", for want of a better word..

#1 - I would have to vehemently disagree...Its not random hulchul...When I hear kids in concerts almost unconsciously discern the difference between deshkaar and bhupali, or bhairav and ahir bhairav - its not just a "fashion"....Indian classical music is on extremely solid footing of Gen X.....

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Jun 2011 02:26

abhishek_sharma wrote:It is known to most students of science that people like Gauss, Fourier, Laplace, Lagrange, Leibniz and Galois did not write their papers/books in English.

In last 100 years, at least some papers by people like Poincare and Einstein are not in English. For example:

Many Indian researchers have published in non-English languages but given the Oiropean monopoly it has been almost impossible for them to disseminate their ideas in Indian languages due to the fact that it doesn't have a wide enough audience. I remember my grandfather had mathematics/fizzyics papers in German and Russian (~30% of his publications) but he didn't have any papers in Bengali even though he occassionally used to teach in that language and was more fluent than most native speakers.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Jun 2011 09:54

Amartya Sen will be adviser to Presidency Mentor Group

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 30 Jun 2011 10:19

Posting in full...

IIT-Delhi rolls out 'etiquette lessons' for SC/ST students

MUMBAI: Even before this year's freshmen enter the Indian Institute of Technology-Delhi, some others will be pushed to pick up etiquette lessons required to live on the tech school campus. The objective may be well-intentioned but putting just the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe candidates through a 'self-enrichment programme' has prompted experts to criticize the move as "smacking of apartheid" and causing a "distinction" between two sets of students on the basis of caste.

Delhi is the only IIT to have felt the pressing need to put all the selected SC/ST candidates through classes on manners.

The co-ed programme—which will be run from July 10 to July 17—is made up of modules on communication, personality development and theatre for communication (more like public speaking). Put together, "in all logical integrity, it is meant to boost the confidence of students who come from a different background", say IIT-Delhi heads.

But not everyone thinks of the "correctional programme" as a means to achieve equilibrium among campus residents. An IIT-Delhi faculty member snorts at the idea. "A campus is a symbol of assimilation of many minds and several lives. To carve out a group on the basis of their origins and put them through a training programme—I would term it nothing short of apartheid."

Many parents too aren't kicked about the idea. "On day one, the institute is telling my child that he is different," rues a parent from Andhra Pradesh whose son is joining IIT-D.

TISS director S Parasuraman feels it is not useful to segregate students at all. "Every student who joins IIT knows his/her maths but may not be able to write good English. All students from rural and underprivileged backgrounds need adjustment but putting them through a training programme is not the answer. IIT-Delhi needs to have a long-term support system in place and hire better counsellors for every student, not just SC/STs or OBCs," he says.

The residential programme is conducted by the Centre for Research and Education for Social Transformation, Kerala (CREST). It will enable SC/ST students to develop social skills, orientation and have the ability to adapt to the environment at IIT Delhi, states the note sent to all the SC/ST students.

Ashley Paul, a CREST co-ordinator, says, "Most of these students don't have the social capital; they are mostly first-generation learners and they come from rural parts of India. The course leaves them a lot more certain than when they walked in."

From classes in communication to touching on all aspects of personality development, Paul says the course is meant to help students shed their inhibitions and "come out of their shell".

But IIT-D director Surendra Prasad says he would love to leave the door open for any general category student who wants to attend the programme. "The programme came out of our desire to be pro-active, to take care of all our students, especially those who hail from different backgrounds. The entire academic community at the institute felt that a section of the students need to be better prepared and confident for their stint at the institute."

A very bad idea.

Never in my professional life I've come across people whose standard of etiquette and manners had any bearing on their community status, academic achievements or accident of birth. Furthermore, there is no such corelation even with the socio-economic backgrounds.

Saying that, even before I get to know a person, he/she lacks good manners or social etiquette simple because he/she belongs to a community is racism.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 30 Jun 2011 10:38

"Etiquette and Manners" workshops might be useful to all sections of the society.

But then if you are from the Elite class...you are suffering from "conduct disorder" onlee

.

Elite schools breed rotten apples

Most of accused students suffer copycat syndrome

All applicants who have been caught submitting fake caste certificates for admission to the Delhi University (DU) belong to the most elite public schools of the Capital. Why do they need to indulge in such a crime? According to child psychologist Geetika Kapoor, such incidents show that the copycat syndrome has come to take grip of our society like never before.

The most shocking revelation in the case is the fact that all of the candidates who are under the scanner are children of affluent South Delhi businessmen. While majority of them have studied in prominent schools located in South Delhi, a few of them did their schooling from a prestigious public school in Lutyens Delhi.

“These children can also be said to be suffering from conduct disorder. Their belief that their parents can manage to get anything done for them has led to the situation of they getting involved in such criminal activity. Their respective schools failed to inculcate in them respect for rules,” says Dr Naveen Kumar, DU psychology professor. “Such families suffer from tendency to discard standard norms in quest for power,” added Kumar.

“These children are victim of typical stereotype families, who share certain attributes like in this case, child’s admission and not education, as a status symbol. Towards that end, they find money as the most handy weapon in their hands. Unfortunately, the schools, where a child’s character is supposed to be moulded, are also playing along,” added Kapoor.

Himanshu, the main accused in the fake certificate case, disclosed that the schoolteachers worked as middlemen for him. The teachers under scanner helped Himanshu find candidates desirous of admission in top colleges of the Delhi University. “We are identifying such teachers and will question them in the case,” said a senior Crime Branch official.

“What a fall it is from the great Indian tradition of guru and chela, about which Prince of Wales had said, “It is the first few blows to the life that give the human a weapon that carries him through life’s battles.” It’s a very sad situation that teachers should play as facilitators in such immoral activity,” said RC Singhal, Principal of the reputed Cambrian Hall School in Dehradun.

The student who tried admission through fake certificate despite getting 94.5 marks belongs to one of the oldest and most reputed public school of the Capital.

“But why only blame the schools. We at the university are at fault too. Defects in our system allowed such mal practices for past several years, right under the nose of the university administration. They knew that the system could be short-changed and they used the loopholes in our admission policy,” said Dr Kumar.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jun 2011 12:09

see the problem in IIT UG is a core section of smart talking angrezi educated metro kids tend to dominate the social discourse leaving all others in the sidelines. they organize all the festivals, hog all the limelight, write up all the posters, run all the clubs, interact the most with the profs and start preparing for GRE from day1 in 1st semester.

the overwhelming culture is urban, westernized and english speaking. and a smaller subset of this set is good in academics too, if you dont produce a 9+ CPI you are nothing better than a dog to them.

this kind of training program will only further widen the "divide" , it wont solve any problem. I am not sure there's a "solution" to this problem other than encouraging people to participate in all things and clamping down on the loudmouths.

vina · Post by **vina** » 01 Jul 2011 05:57

Singha wrote:see the problem in IIT UG is a core section of smart talking angrezi educated metro kids tend to dominate the social discourse leaving all others in the sidelines. they organize all the festivals, hog all the limelight, write up all the posters, run all the clubs, interact the most with the profs and start preparing for GRE from day1 in 1st semester.

No way! GRE prep is done during ONE MONTH or so AFTER the 6th sem during the holidays (folks stay back @ the campus @the Madras Madrassa ) and write the GRE, TOEFL & AGRE. That is all. That is the truth and the whole truth.

But the other part is true though. Atleast back in the old days, the Madras Madrassa had Inglees as the Lingua Franca (everyone swore in Madras Tamil though)

So what in effect you are saying is that the "social capital" or rather the gift of the gab of the IITians give them a leg up in the wider world (beyond the tech/book skills) and that stands them in good stead in academia, piss-ness, Boliticx, Con-Sultan ing, Banking , and they can schmooze up the Profs at Stan Mad or YumEyeTee or any other Madrassa or going up the corp ladder.

But why blame them for that ? That is a part of the wider more well rounded schooling and sure, family and social capital and acculturation . That is their advantage. If others dont have it, why blame those who have it. Others too will pick it up over time.

In fact, what made the IIT experience enjoyable more than anything else was the clubs and "cultural scene" and the joy of being able to hang out with the "wing junta" and do nerdy things like crosswords, play bridge (there used to be literally a fight to be the first to get to The Hindu in the mornings to do the crossword), play chess, ityadi. Without that it would have been boring and a terribly less rich place.

this kind of training program will only further widen the "divide" , it wont solve any problem. I am not sure there's a "solution" to this problem other than encouraging people to participate in all things and clamping down on the loudmouths.

I am not sure. Even those who could barely manage a few words in Inglees in the 1st week , become quite fluent by the 1st sem and are "assimilated" by the 3rd sem. I think it is a great experience for them as well. The idea should be to "rise up", rather than to drag others down I suppose.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2011 06:30

> GRE prep is done during ONE MONTH or so AFTER the 6th sem during the holidays

maybe it was for your batch. but I have seen kids seriously preparing for GRE in 2nd year itself because they need to give the exam before 4th yr starts in the summer or autumn usually. scouting out univ sites , contacting profs and getting in touch with seniors abroad is also done well in time. nothing wrong in that, it takes hard work to be running this side thread in parallel with keeping up with the brutal 2nd and 3rd yr courseloads.

need for change is at both ends of the spectrum
- the uber engrish schools need to teach more about desi culture, writers, poets, issues so that we have young scholars not just versed in jean paul sartre works but those of indic writers as well. not just locate palo alto on the map but Imphal as well

- the schools in smaller towns and the non engrish schools need to focus not just on a academic excellence but on other activities too...this is additional cost - hiring teachers for Physical ed, dance, art, crafts, martial arts , music is all extra .

and both need to stress more on hands-on learning - that old indic failing

vina · Post by **vina** » 01 Jul 2011 06:52

Singha wrote:> GRE prep is done during ONE MONTH or so AFTER the 6th sem during the holidays

maybe it was for your batch. but I have seen kids seriously preparing for GRE in 2nd year itself because they need to give the exam before 4th yr starts in the summer or autumn usually. scouting out univ sites , contacting profs and getting in touch with seniors abroad is also done well in time. nothing wrong in that, it takes hard work to be running this side thread in parallel with keeping up with the brutal 2nd and 3rd yr courseloads.

Sorry. You are right. It was end of FOURTH sem during the holidays , after the course work is done, so that you start "apping" start of 5th /6th sem and by 7th sem end /8th sem beginning you have the admit and aid in hand!

Frankly for a GRE type exam, "prep" will not get you much beyond your innate ability. If you are going to score 540 in Inglees, well that is where it is going to be how much ever you "mug" . Same with the "quant" and the other paper (logic or whatever I dont rememer).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2011 06:56

well the fight is for every few marks when the target is 2300+ (old exam had 2400 = 800x3 as the perfect score). 9+ GPA and 2300+ with a good reco was enough in 1990s to get into top20 univ in massa for MS.

vina · Post by **vina** » 01 Jul 2011 07:50

Singha wrote:well the fight is for every few marks when the target is 2300+ (old exam had 2400 = 800x3 as the perfect score). 9+ GPA and 2300+ with a good reco was enough in 1990s to get into top20 univ in massa for MS.

I dont know how it is these days, but I suspect it is not much different from earlier. Back then, the GRE business is taken with a pinch of salt. Many top Univs are not "GRE Strong" , ie if you have a minimum qualifying cut off, then the decisions are based on other things like your academics, the reccos, any papers you have written etc. etc. If for eg, you get 540 in Inglees in GRE, you could still apply and get into a top school (makes sense, they know that you are not apping into Inglees Littrachaw) . And oh, even GRE +CGPA isn't eveyrthing. I know of folks who had GPA of 6.5 or something, but had come up with a great paper and got admitted into absolute top drawer schools. It is not "forumlaic" but yeah, good GRE+Acads+ Reccos will invariably see you land in a top school with high probability. Between a GRE of 2150 and 2340, if the diff comes from Inglees, it probably is going to make zero difference anyways.

But that said, I find that GRE business amusing, I think it is overemphasized . I would agree with Bade Mian , who goes on a Jeehard when AWOL in "South Asia" against GRE , and I think folks get overly stressed on that (and if apping for YumBeeYea, in GMAT).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2011 07:55

most top massa univs have some long term projects going on with phd, ms doing most of it, but opportunities for UGs to weasel in and get their names on papers. UGs are not fit to do r&d and write papers alone. but in India due to relative lack of such opportunities for UGs, the good academic + good reco + good GRE was the usual route to a top school for most. some were very "professional" and even setup a NGO on the side to burnish their credentials for when they would take up Mba in massa later

in terms of gaming any system, indians are second to none - our relative population pressure and lack of resources for all to be well fed makes this inborn.

vina · Post by **vina** » 01 Jul 2011 09:00

Singha wrote: some were very "professional" and even setup a NGO on the side to burnish their credentials for when they would take up Mba in massa later

WHAT! You're kidding me!

. Competition has reach such levels huh?

Life was so much simpler earlier. One fine day , I thought, hmm, maybe need to take some time off from this work rat race and park for a year or so in a "kalaje Kampus" and hmm "YumbeeYea" seemed like a good idea, great social life, not too much need to exercise em grey cells. Perfect

So, i drove up to the nearest Barnes and Nobles and wanted to pick up a "Barrons" GMAT prep book. Dang.. If it had been the Madrassa, I would have bummed off the wing stocks and not paid a single paisa. There I discovered that it was a Kampooter based test in YouYess. So now I was in a tizzy with all that Kampooter business and everything , all so unfamiliar. Paper test wasn't even an option, which I would have gladly taken.

Now there was something called the "Internet" that was becoming popular and people were starting to use some new fangled "e-mail" to communicate and some company called Netscape was doing an I-Pee-Oh. So grumbling , I went to the Circuit City nearby and bought a NEC Komputer with a "Cyrix" processor running at 166MHz or so (you remember the first Kampooter you buy I suppose, like the first kiss etc) (off the shelf, marked down/return stuff, at deep discount, Mickey Soft was throwing $400 offer on internet access the skinflint Yindoo-Bania never goes away i suppose , for $350) , then bought that stupid Barrons for $100 or so, took the 3 Computer Based Tests in it over 3 weekends, got a test slot the 4th weekend on a Saturday, went and did it. That was all and still apped and got into a decent Madrassa to park my Musharraf for a year and a half.

I guess I was a clueless Klutz back then. With this kind of Chankianness in this day and age, I wonder how it will be like when my daughter and son grow up!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2011 09:33

its very heavy AD env these days. need spectra 5t and semi-stealthy airframe to even clear the airbase boundary wall without getting shot up.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 01 Jul 2011 09:40

It is true. We had started a small group and got it registered too. We helped raise funds for visually challenged women to get skills to get them find employment - computer skills etc. And we had some of our "friends" approach us to enable them to use the organisation's name in the apps for yembeeyay! Pissed us off big time. And this was 4 years ago!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2011 11:20

my case was much older around 15 years ago!

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 07 Jul 2011 19:00

It is sad of Tamil NAdu politics that Children are not given books to study and teachers are not allowed to teach any lessons in their schools. pity!

Syllabus stay throws TN schools into confusion
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... fusion-643

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Jul 2011 19:03

joshvajohn wrote:It is sad of Tamil NAdu politics that Children are not given books to study and teachers are not allowed to teach any lessons in their schools. pity!

Syllabus stay throws TN schools into confusion
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... fusion-643

If only Indian syllabus was not so ideologically orinented we wouldn't be having so many issues with it.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 08 Jul 2011 00:58

Uniform syllabus cannot be used this year: Expert panel
http://www.inewsone.com/2011/07/06/unif ... anel/61047

TN schools should be allowed to use books as quickly as possible. Otherwise many parents are worried and does not like the handling of the state government. The advisors are misguiding chief minister and the public opnion can turn against the govt soon.

What is the point of giving children free laptop and free bus passes when they are not given books and given proper education at schools?

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 08 Jul 2011 08:50

Recently there has been a scam going on by the name of 'IIPM' . I found this website a good resource on it.
http://www.iipmscam.com/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2011 09:02

the IIPM founder is a judo artist though - always ready with a counterstrike and has not been pinned down by any of the above issues reported
http://dearsonu.wordpress.com/2011/05/2 ... -the-iits/