Bharat Rakshak

`Coward' Mumbai policemen to face action

Policemen indicted by a special court for "running away" instead of fighting the terrorists during the 26/11 attacks here are likely to face action.

"I have read media reports which stated that the honourable judge had criticised some police personnel (of Azad Maidan Police Station in South Mumbai), saying they had not acted properly in stopping the terrorists during the terror attacks. But I am yet to get the copy of the judgement," Police Commissioner D Sivanandan said.

He said, "I will go through the copy and if I find the officers were not up to the mark and ran away from fighting the terrorists, I will take appropriate action against them."

Judge M L Tahaliyani, while delivering the judgement in the 26/11 case, had severely criticised some policemen, including officers, for their inaction during the assault.

He had noted that instead of coming to the aid of Additional Commissioner Sadanand Date, who engaged the terrorists in a gunfight at Cama Hospital and got injured, some policemen, including Inspector Yashwant Thorawade and Constable Suresh Kadam, possibly "ran away" and did not fight the militants.

"This definitely is cowardliness and lack of devotion towards duty," the Judge had remarked.

The police station is just a stone's throw away from Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus and Cama Hospital, where Ajmal Kasab and his companion Abu Ismail killed several people.

What about IG Mr. Ghafoor? He is now slated to become IGP of Maharashtra.

ramana wrote:What about IG Mr. Ghafoor? He is now slated to become IGP of Maharashtra.

Well your sekloor credentials would be questioned. he has unblemished record so far and his forces captured the only live terrorist caught in action and many of his officers laid down their lives to save the country. What more do you want from the Leader of the force. In fact I found Mr A N Roy as lacking leadership in crisis when gafoor was held up in basement of trident hotel.

ramana wrote:What about IG Mr. Ghafoor? He is now slated to become IGP of Maharashtra.

Hassan Ghafoor is not going to be the state DGP. D. Sivanandan is going to be the DGP of Maharashtra (Times Of India).

PS: corrected based on chaanakya's note and also after checking K.P web site for correct nomenclature .

Sanjeev Dayal IPS-77 batch is Police Commissioner Mumbai. Earlier he served as Joint Comm (Admin) and had served in Addl DGP (Special Operations). Had initial stint as spook for four years.

With brief stint as Mumbai Police Comm , D Sivanandhan was elevated as the new director-general of police (DGP).

Over the past fortnight, Gafoor, a 1974-batch officer, had emerged as the frontrunner for the post of DGP after Chavan openly supported and defended him. Highly placed sources in the chief minister’s office (CMO) said, “There was a section within the Congress lobbying hard to restore Gafoor’s image by getting him posted in place of AN Roy, the incumbent. Some were also playing the minority card to promote his case.”

Gafoor was termed as a failure by the RD Pradhan committee post 26/11. However he still gets DG(Anti corruption) which speaks volumes about his ability to fight corruption if not terrorists.
Somehow effectiveness and efficiency got upper hand over seklooism.

To ramana garu.
Gafoor was already in DGP rank, so not an IG. Mumbai Police Comm is in DGP rank having full admin and operational control over Mumbai Police.That is one of the reason when he got held up in basement A N Roy was not able to take leadership role. It was left to Rakesh Maria to take operational command at the Control Room, and he did a fine job.


PS :- there is no post as D&IGP, it is DGP or IGP and both can co-exist as DGP is higher in rank. DIGP (without ampersand '&') means Deputy IGP which is lower than IGP which is lower than Addl DGP (ADGP) which is lower than DGP. All DGPs heading various organizations are equal but for senority abd obviously DGP Maha Police would have all admin/police powers and control over others, irrespective of ranks.

Pakistan's special prosecutor handling the Mumbai Terror case dies

Malik Rab Nawaz Noon, the senior lawyer heading the Pakistan government's prosecution team in the trial of seven suspects linked to the 2008 Mumbai attacks, has died of a heart attack. Noon, who was hired as the special public prosecutor for the trial of the seven suspects including Lashkar-e-Tayiba commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, died late on Sunday night of a sudden heart attack. He was 65.

Noon was a senior advocate and a respected member of the Supreme Court Bar Association. Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry and other judges condoled his death. Sources said Noon's death is likely to affect the trial of the seven suspects linked to the Mumbai attacks by a Rawalpindi-based anti-terrorism court as the government will have to choose a new lawyer to head the prosecution team. Noon had played a key role while representing the government in several cases related to the Mumbai attacks in the Lahore High Court and the Supreme Court, including petitions filed by Lakhvi and the other suspects. The next hearing of the Mumbai attacks case in the anti-terrorism court is scheduled for June 12.

11th Dossa from LungiMaster to Pigstan , with love

Press Trust of India
NEW DELHI, 18 JUNE: On the eve of the meeting of foreign secretaries, India today handed over the eleventh dossier to Pakistan containing response to points raised by Islamabad over the Mumbai terror strikes and providing “additional information” on those involved in the attacks.
“The Deputy High Commissioner of Pakistan was called in the afternoon and handed over a set of responses to the six dossiers received from Pakistan on 25 April, 2010 on the Mumbai terror attacks,”external affairs ministry spokesperson Mr Vishnu Prakash said.
The dossier was handed over by Mr YK Sinha, joint secretary in-charge of Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan, to Pakistan's Deputy High Commissioner Mr Riffat Masood.
Besides containing response to all the queries raised by Pakistan in their six dossiers given on 25 April, India has also provided “additional information” on those involved in the Mumbai attacks and were operating from Pakistani soil, the sources said.
The Indian “set of responses” also conveys India's “mounting unhappiness” with Pakistan's lack of “concrete action” against Lashkar-e-Taiyyaba founder Hafiz Saeed, a mastermind behind the Mumbai attacks.
In its six dossiers given on 25 April to Indian Deputy High Commissioner Mr Rahul Kulshreshth, Pakistan had asked for three Indian officials, including two magistrates and an investigator, to be allowed to travel to that country to testify that they had recorded statement of Ajmal Kasab, sentenced to death for the Mumbai carnage.
Pakistan had also asked New Delhi to hand over Kasab, the lone terrorist captured alive during the attacks, to facilitate the trial of LeT's operations commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and six others charged with involvement in the strikes in a Rawalpindi anti-terrorism court.
The Indian response comes few days ahead of the talks between foreign secretary Mrs Nirupama Rao and her Pakistani counterpart Mr Salman Bashir on 24 June during which both sides will attempt to bridge “trust deficit”.

Ahh That DOssa is huge, says Spokesperson PFO Abdul Basit.

NEW DELHI: India on Friday handed over to Pakistan a new dossier of evidence related to the November 2008 Mumbai attacks, ahead of talks next week between top foreign ministry officials.

India's foreign ministry separately announced a meeting next Thursday between Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao and her Pakistani counterpart Salman Bashir as the two nations look to build on a recent thaw in relations.

Another dossier of evidence related to the attacks known as “26/11” in India, which saw 166 people killed, was handed over on Friday, a Pakistan embassy source in New Delhi told AFP, asking not to be named.

“They have given us some more documentation this afternoon and we have sent it to Pakistan,” the source said.

“This is additional information about 26/11 and it is huge in volume.”

India has already handed over several dossiers of evidence linking the attacks to Pakistani militants, but Islamabad says more is needed to convict the alleged masterminds.

In Islamabad, foreign ministry spokesman Abdul Basit confirmed the new dossier but said it was a “response to the dossier we had given to India”.

The script of the dossier-nama is playing out like a well scripted spoof of how we would react if a major attack happens!!!

GoI even seems to be proud of showing its impotence( and helplessness) with regards to Pak so openly!!!

School ‘rejects’ 26/11 girl

“First they (the school) said, ‘Get a letter from the police’ and I submitted a letter from the crime branch. I was called again today at 2pm, when school principal Rathod told me they could not admit Devika as they feared trouble because of her 26/11 background,” Natwarlal said.

The 46-year-old father, who is originally from Rajasthan and sells dry fruits and saffron for a living, said he was heartbroken. “My daughter did a service to the country by helping identify convict Kasab. After she bravely stood in the courtroom and identified Kasab, everybody including the judge told me she was a bright child and I should educate her. But if a school refuses, what can I do?”

The family prefers New English School because it’s at a walking distance from their home at Sant Dhyaneshwar Nagar slum.

“Till Kasab is actually hanged, there may be a threat to Devika’s life. That’s why I prefer this school — so she doesn’t have to travel much,” Natwarlal said. He added that the Tata Group had offered to sponsor Devika’s education.

The New English School management could not be contacted. But crime branch officer Vilas Jamawane, who had given a letter on behalf of Mumbai police requesting the school to admit Devika, said: “I had visited the school with Devika’s father and requested them to admit her.”

He added: “We had met the vice-principal. She told us the final decision would be taken by the trust that runs the school. I am not aware of what transpired today but I hope Devika gets admission because she is a bright and brave girl.”

sum:

Don't rub it in yaar; it hurts . But tragically, can you just imagine how much ISI bosses must be laughing their asses off, not to mention the CIA crooks monitoring this whole tamasha.

X Posted.

arun wrote:No part of the world seems to be immune from the unwelcome attentions of citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan out to indulge in a spot of Islamic terrorism.

Two citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, one of whom is a “wanted international terrorist”, arrested while trying to exit Zimbabwe for South Africa with fraudulent Kenyan passports :

Zim holds 'terrorists' at SA border

25/06/2010 00:00:00
by Staff Reporter

ZIMBABWE says it has arrested two suspected terrorists trying to enter South Africa, raising new fears of a terror plot against the ongoing FIFA World Cup.

The state-run Herald newspaper reported Friday that the two men were Pakistani nationals, one of them a “wanted international terrorist”. {Snipped}

New Zimbabwe

The arrests of Pakistani Islamic Terrorists in Zimbabwe, does apparently have a link to the Pakistan fomented Mumbai 26/11 Islamic terrorist attack.

Imran Muhammad, the citizen of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan arrested in Zimbabwe “is said to be wanted in Pakistan for alleged involvement in the terrorist attacks that hit Mumbai, India in 2008 “.

Our MEA should immediately start working to get us access to these Pakistani Islamic Terrorists before they get deported back to that Islamic Terrorist fomenting cesspit, Pakistan:

Pakistani terror suspects named

Pakistan's FIA to collaborate with CBI on Mumbai investigation

The premier agencies of Pakistan and India — the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) and the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) — will interact with each other on terrorism and the Mumbai attacks.

Pakistan also indicated its willingness to further cooperate with India in closing in on the masterminds of the Mumbai attacks, saying it realised the “gravity of the situation.” The acknowledgement came after India stressed that the Mumbai attacks were much more meticulously planned and devastating than a bomb blast.

Mr. Malik said Pakistan was working on providing voice samples of the handlers who had directed and motivated the Mumbai attackers.

“Of course,” he said when asked whether Pakistan would accede to India's request in this regard. “We will help them bring these terrorists to justice...we will provide all assistance in addition to what has been asked from us.”

Mr. Malik added: “We have already understood the gravity of the Mumbai attacks, which is why we have arrested seven people. We will take action on whatever credible information we are given. If there is any information coming from India, of course we will take firm action.”

The Indian TV channels & news media are gloating that Pakistan has decided to cooperate with India in closing the 26/11 case. Pakistan has once again deftly handled the situation with P.Chidambaram, IMO.

On voice samples, I do not know how much trust we can place on what they give, if and when they give. Again, why should there have been a delay in the first place at all ? The Pakistanis are using these carrots to demand something else from India and their cooperation is calibrated according to Indian response.

On Prof. Hafeez Saeed, PC had said before his departure that he wanted to hear from Rehman Malik as to exactly what they presented to the Court that the Court deemed as insufficient evidence. One doesn't know whether he got to know that. PC would certainly have brought up Prof. Hafeez Saeed's extremist jihad speeches directed at India and his desire to blast Indian water projects. It must be interesting to know how Rehman Malik, in typical Pakistani double-speak, handled those queries.

PC would also have asked Rehman Malik why the case at ATC (Anti Terrorism Court), Adiala has not gotten off the ground at all in spite of almost a year since it was taken up, when the ATC is, by law, supposed to hear the case every day and wrap it up in a week ! In fact, the ATA (Anti Terrorim Act) requires even investigation to be finished in seven days ! The judge cannot grant more than two adjournments and the Judge is under threat of penalty if he/she violates any of these provisions ! If you want to know, in the light of the above tough provisions, how the 26/11 case has proceeded at Adiala so far, you may see here.

On the joint investigation, wasn't that what Pakistan demanded from day one ? Now that almost all evidences & leads have been given by India to Pakistan, there may be no necessity at all for a joint probe. It is probably a ruse by Pakistan to claim how it offers close cooperation. It may also claim that India realized its folly after 18 months. But, India may use this opportunity to keep an oversight on how Pakistani investigators are approaching the case without compromising our sources and intelligence gathering techniques. Other than that, the joint investigation does not sound much except to give an appearance of a close coordination between a considerate Pakistan and a demanding India. A joint task force on terror was announced even earlier and it made no progress at all. The same fate is likely to befall this time too.

When Malik says, "If there is any information coming from India, of course we will take firm action.", he continues to imply that the present set of datapoints is insufficient because he is talking in future tense.

Forget about Headley's damning revelations about how ISI & LeT are together in Islamist terror plots everywhere. Forget about the serving/retired PA officers he mentioned to the American and Indian interrogators. The Indian investigators themselves had found out about Col. Sadatullah of the PA Signal Corps who arranged communication facilities for the Mumbai terrorists. Kasab's confessions to a magistrate speak of a Maj. Gen. saheb who visited their training camp in the company of Prof. Hafeez Saeed and personally handpicked the members of the 26/11 mission. Did PC ask Rehman Malik what happened to these people ? I am sure he did and the answer from Rehman Malik would again be interesting.

On the whole, this exercise will not bring us any benefit while giving the appearance of a Pakistan that is cooperating. Terrorism will thus be effectively de-linked from talks and will be consigned to the CBI-FIA team. S-e-S would have thus come a full circle after vigorous opposition from within India soon after that fateful July 2009 joint statement, that made our PM delay this dialogue process until now.

The only clarity that it will bring within the next couple of weeks (before SM. Krishna's visit) is that if there is no significant, dramatic and visible progress, we can be certain that all that transpired in the PC-Rehman Malik momentous meeting was sweet nothing and Pakistan is determined to continue in the same path that it chose to follow against us decades back. At least that should bring a closure to further debates on some softer aspects of dealing with Pakistan.

India expects credible action before SM Krishna's visit in July

India expects Pakistan to take credible action against Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) operatives and handlers involved in the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks before External Affairs Minister S. M. Krishna visits Islamabad next month.

Officials said the Pakistani side gave this indication during an interaction with the Indian delegation on the sidelines of the SAARC Home Ministers' conference, which concluded last week in Islamabad.

“Pakistani officials told us that India will not be disappointed this time. We are expecting some credible action by Pakistan against the LeT operatives and handlers before the Foreign Minister's visit,” the officials said on Monday.

It is learnt that during his one-on-one meeting with his Pakistani counterpart Rehman Malik, Home Minister P. Chidambaram mentioned seven persons against whom so far no action was taken by Islamabad despite sufficient evidence having been forwarded. Among the seven are: Sajjid Mir, Abdul Rehman Pasha, Brigadier Riyaz, Abu Khafa, Al Kama and Abu Hamza.

The officials said the names of these persons were provided by David Coleman Headley, Pakistani-origin American citizen, during his recent questioning by the National Investigation Agency.

The question here is what if there is no 'credible action' before Krishna's July visit ? Will the visit be cancelled ? And, what is the agreed definition between PC & Malik of a 'credible action'. Let's remember that Pakistan handles the mighty US of A with effortless ease when it comes to taking incremental action against AQAM just at the nick of time. A dhimmi India with absolutely no leverage against Pakistan is no match.

Details from our Governments interrogation of Pakistani origin Islamic Terrorist Daood Gilani aka David Coleman Headley implicating Islamic Republic of Pakistan Government protected Islamic terrorist Hafiz Saeed in the Mumbai 26/11 attack, start to trickle out.

India Today on the subject based on the interview of our Home Secretary G.K Pillai by their associate company, Headlines Today:

Headley sings on Saeed's 26/11 role

More details from our Governments interrogation of Pakistani origin Islamic Terrorist Daood Gilani aka David Coleman Headley implicating Islamic Republic of Pakistan Government protected Islamic terrorist Hafiz Saeed in the Mumbai 26/11 attack, start to trickle out.

Hindustan Times:

No 26/11 delay: Hafiz to Headley

Economic Times:

Met Saeed twice in the run-up to Mumbai attacks: Headley

arun wrote:Hindustan Times:

No 26/11 delay: Hafiz to Headley

From the above,

Abu Kafa, Sajid Mir and Abu Alkame were named as the three people instructing the terrorists on the phone during the attacks.

The NIA officers played out the recordings of conversations between the Mumbai terrorists and their handlers in Karachi, and Headley identified each one of the voices and gave graphic descriptions of their appearance and behaviour. He also identified them from photographs shown to him, some of them extracted from his computer by the FBI.

India has given Pakistan photographs of all three, their descriptions and rough coordinates of their locations.

The sources said India is waiting for some action based on this evidence.

He [Headley], however, did meet and talk to some of the terrorists — including Ajmal Kasab.

Lies, betrayal and denial in Bombay

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Lies-betr ... 67007.aspx

Pakistan Government informs ATC, Adiala that India has refused to send Kasab to Pakistan

Pakistan government today informed an anti-terror court hearing the Mumbai attack case involving LeT's Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and six other suspects that the latest Indian dossier on the 26/11 strikes said Ajmal Kasab could not be sent to Pakistan to testify against the accused.

A government lawyer appeared before judge Malik Muhammad Akram Awan, who is conducting the trial in the Adiala Jail in Rawalpindi for security reasons, and said India's latest dossier had said that it would not be possible to send Kasab to Pakistan to join the court's proceedings.

The government lawyer said the anti-terrorism court could now make a request for the Indian magistrates and a police officer who had recorded Kasab's statement to come to Pakistan to testify.

The government too is looking into this matter and will make a request in this regard, the lawyer said.

Today's proceedings were brief as lawyers across Punjab province and other parts of Pakistan are on strike to protest against Thursday's suicide attack on the Data Darbar shrine in Lahore that killed 45 people.

After hearing the government lawyer, judge Awan adjourned the case and scheduled the next hearing for July 10.

Meanwhile, a notification issued today stated that deputy attorney general Muhammad Akhtar Awan would be the new special public prosecutor for the trial of the seven suspects.

The former special public prosecutor, Malik Rab Nawaz Noon, recently died of a heart attack.

Last week, the trial of the seven suspects was adjourned without any proceedings apparently due to concerns among Pakistani authorities that any adverse developments in the court could impact talks with India.

At that time, home minister P Chidambaram was in Islamabad to attend a meeting of SAARC interior ministers summit and to hold talks with his Pakistani counterpart Rehman Malik.

See here for a chronology of court drama in Pakistan

India comes up with 6 new names

The government has started examining a list of six suspects given by New Delhi during talks between the two foreign secretaries in Islamabad last week.

Most of the suspects have been identified by their aliases and cover names.

“A list of six more suspects — Sajid Mir, Maj Abdur Rehman, Brig Riaz, Abu Kafa, Abu Qama and Abu Hamza — has been given by India,” a security official said.

The names of the alleged handlers and controllers of the attack’s perpetrators emerged from interrogation by India of American suspect David Coleman Headley, who is being tried in the US for a plot to attack offices of a Danish newspaper that published blasphemous caricatures in 2005.

Indias National Investigation Agency (NIA) is likely to again get access to Mr Headley for further questioning.

According to the sketchy details provided by the Indians about the new suspects, Sajid Mir is allegedly an ex-armyman and the international operations commander of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT).

He is supposedly the ‘Individual A’ in the Headley affidavit and ‘Individual B’ in another suspect Tahawwur Hussain Rana’s affidavit submitted in a US court and is associated with both LeT and Ilyas Kashmiri. He is also reportedly wanted by the US and Australian law-enforcement agencies.

Maj Abdur Rehman alias Pasha, as per the Indian information, retired from the army in 2007 and had been arrested by Pakistani security agencies in September last year for his suspected involvement in the Headley case. He was, however, released.

The third military man pointed out by the Indian side, Brig Riaz, is allegedly an ex-official of the SCO, the army wing dealing with telecommunications.

The other three — Abu Kafa, Abu Qama and Abu Hamza — have been identified by their aliases and were allegedly the handlers of the Mumbai attackers.

Abu Kafa is also the alias of Mazhar Iqbal, one of the seven suspects currently being tried by the Rawalpindi anti-terrorism court in the Mumbai case.

An investigator said it was practically unworkable to find the people identified only by their aliases or cover names.

By terming these as 'sketchy details' and 'aliases are unworkable', Pakistan has already found enough reasons to dump the evidence. It is trying to convey that India must give all the details and GoP will just act as a postman to convey them to the Judge. It has absolutely no other role to play.

ATC, Adiala issues fresh arrest warrants against Kasab & Ansari and adjourns case until July 24

A Pakistani anti-terrorism court conducting the trial of seven Mumbai attack suspects on Saturday issued fresh arrest warrants for Ajmal Kasab and Fahim Ansari even as prime accused LeT commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi submitted an application for bail.

During Saturday’s proceedings, the prosecution’s request for fresh arrest warrants against Kasab and Ansari reportedly irked Judge Awan {the prosecution is trying to delay}, who said he had already issued warrants on an earlier occasion.

The judge said it was the Pakistan government’s responsibility to get Indian authorities to enforce the warrants issued earlier.

Defence lawyers too opposed the prosecution’s demand for fresh warrants, with Lashker-e-Taiba commander Lakhvi’s counsel Khwaja Sultan saying that Kasab had already been convicted and sentenced.

Mr. Sultan also said that no purpose would be served by bringing Kasab to Pakistan to join the anti-terrorism court’s proceedings.

Sources said the judge finally agreed to issue fresh arrest warrants for Kasab and Ansari and adjourned the proceedings till July 24.

Mr. Sultan submitted a bail application on behalf of Lakhvi. The application said that Lakhvi had no known criminal record and he was not wanted for any other crimes.

It said that there was no other chargesheet against Lakhvi and that he had not been convicted for any crimes.

The application further stated that Lakhvi should be released as the prosecution had been unable to produce any solid evidence against him during the 19 months that he has been in detention for alleged involvement in Mumbai attacks.

Mr. Sultan told PTI that the bail application is expected to be taken up on July 13.

See here for a chronology of court drama in Pakistan

X-post from TSP thread
As Indian FM arrives in Islamabad, Indian Home Secretary directly accuses ISI of participation in 26/11.

As Foreign Minister S M Krishna leaves for Pakistan to talk peace, the government has said it has fresh evidence — based on the interrogation of 26/11 accused David Headley — to show that Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorist Hafiz Saeed played a “much more significant” role in planning and executing the terrorist attack on Mumbai than was earlier known.

In the first official statement on the interrogation of Headley — a US citizen of Pakistani origin who was arrested by US authorities in Chicago last year and questioned by a team from India in May — Home Secretary G K Pillai said it was now clear that both the ISI and Saeed were involved in the Mumbai attacks from the beginning till the end. Headley made several visits to India and is accused of scouting targets for the attacks.

“The real sense that has come out from Headley’s interrogation is that the ISI has had a much more significant role to play (in the Mumbai attacks, than was earlier thought). It was not just a peripheral role. They (ISI) were literally controlling and coordinating it (the attacks) from the beginning till the end,” Pillai said at Idea Exchange, an interaction with The Indian Express journalists here.

“The same goes for Hafiz Saeed. He was also not a peripheral player. He knew everything,” Pillai said.

For example, Pillai said, Headley had told interrogators that at one point his wife had approached Hafiz Saeed and complained that he (her husband) was not giving her any time and neglecting her. Hafiz Saeed apparently told this to Headley. Headley then told Saeed that he was taking a few days off to be with his wife but in that case the “Bombay project” would suffer. At this point, Hafiz is said to have instructed Headley to continue working on the “Bombay project” and that his wife could wait, said Pillai.

“This was revealed by Headley himself. So this is the kind of importance Saeed attached to the Bombay project. Saeed was not someone who didn’t know anything about it (the attacks),” Pillai said, adding that Headley had not just answered to the questions posed by the interrogators but also shared some gossip.

The Home Secretary said the government was hoping that during Krishna’s two-day visit to Pakistan, starting Wednesday, Islamabad would share information on some concrete steps it had taken against the planners and perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks.

He said it was now Pakistan’s responsibility to carry forward the investigation into the attacks. “We have given them a whole series of data, and information that we have. We have given them the names, we have given them the descriptions (of terrorists and their handlers), we have given them what their height is or their complexion is. Whatever descriptions we have been able to obtain from our investigations, we have shared them with Pakistan. Now it is up to them and all I can say is that their interior minister said (during Home Minister P Chidambaram’s visit to Pakistan last month) and I quote ‘You would not be disappointed in our response’. So we have to wait and see how much they can do.”

One more aspect of this Headley Guy, Given that the information that he knows, surely there would have clues to what he was. Are we to belive that certain members who wined , dined, helped him find accomadtion to conduct his recce's operations were innocent and knew nothing about his activities?

SSridhar wrote:X-post from TSP thread
As Indian FM arrives in Islamabad, Indian Home Secretary directly accuses ISI of participation in 26/11.

This is interesting. The hawks in the system are trying their best to not lose the advantages gained over the past decade. When the doves try to loosen their purse strings something or other hurdle is created to ensure the limits of engagement.

^^ So what does the Foreign Secretary hope to achieve by going to TSP and talking terror? We know that the govt has no control over ISI, then why bother with this whole charade. We have phone call intercepts going directly to Kiyani in Kabul attack. So wtf is the point in all this? Are we just playing for time for TSP to split?

Shyamd,
What is your reading on 26/11 trial and how this is going to turn out? Will Pakistan ever bring those responsible to justice?
Why is GoI doing what it is doing, if we all know that the people who did this are the ones who run that country and not the government of pakistan?

We have phone call intercepts going directly to Kiyani in Kabul attack. So wtf is the point in all this? Are we just playing for time for TSP to split?

I must have missed out on the intercepts 'going to Kiyani' bit, not surprised though. Personally think kiyani would have chaired the top level committee meeting that endorsed 26-11 along with Pasha. Any links though about the Kabul linkage to Kiyani?

But yes if the GOI does have these links right up there are only 8 options to explain it's actions:

1/ Playing for time (puki's splitting)
2. Short of vision and spunk
3. Grand vision of Nobel prize and saving Porki's
4. Ignoring intelligence reports and going by gut feeling we are all the same ppl
5. Ignore everything and do Chai biskoot till India ok on economic path
6. Just bore Paki's by dossier pressure that would make them think 20 times before attempting another 26-11.
7. Caving into US pressure in supporting Pakistani 'moderate' elements.
8. Craving to justify the stupidity of Havana and Sharma sharm.

Of all the above options i'm inclined to believe the GOI thinking goes by 2-8 or a combination amongst them. JMT

Gagan wrote:Shyamd,
What is your reading on 26/11 trial and how this is going to turn out?

My personal opinion is that TSP govt is only acting on certain individuals because they have to show something to the US and world community and to a certain extent their people of TSP - in order to show some legitimacy of the govt.

How is it going to turn out? Will Pakistan ever bring those responsible to justice?

Some will be put in jail (to show some tough action by TSP govt) - perhaps Lakhvi or some other small guys involved (and then after 12 months will be out and about with new IDs or even kept under house arrest for a while, will keep a low profile and ISI money will continue to reach them and their families). This is what I think will happen to "those who are guilty". Then if relations with India deteriorate, they will be released.

For now I think TSP is just playing the media game - show the world that they are trying to do something. But the world (govts probably do) doesnt realise that these people involved are representatives of the TSP govt.

TSP is the master of deception that has been fooling everyone. Paki's will be Paki's.

Why is GoI doing what it is doing, if we all know that the people who did this are the ones who run that country and not the government of pakistan?

Govt of TSP i.e. Zardari and co don't have any power at all (I think all of us on this board know that)!

One of the statements Pranab made after 26/11 was to say that we need seperate negotiation with the TSP army as they are the ones who really run that country, No point talking to the govt. And I think he said future negotiation will directly be with TSPA. So, which makes me ask the question of what is this drama of meeting Home ministers and Foreign min's all about? Is there a seperate track of negotiation directly with ISI/TSPA as Pranab hinted post 26/11? It would make sense if this track is secret as if this would be made public, the govt of TSP would be made illegitamate. So, I think that GoI is playing to an audience abroad, with this trips to TSP.

Truth is, we commoners don't really know what is going on. And I really don't know what GoI is trying to do.

The US is the one that gave us transcripts that linked Kayani directly in Kabul attacks. That should have been enough to goto war. What more evidence do we need? We already know the answer of who is responsible for 26/11.

Even Kabul attack evidence that US provided was enough for us to goto war. But we didn't... So what is GoI's game plan??

I think MMS is more concerned about the economy than TSP terror. Lets say he went to war, it would unite the TSP as a nation. Our economy could suffer as a result. Then lets say if we decisively defeat TSPA and take over vaste swathes of the country - then what? We will have an Iraq type situation with insurgent problems. Is there any point in crossing the border and hitting terror camps with their tents? The core issue of terror isn't going to be solved - it just brings a whole host of problems with it. Its a hassle that we don't need and has proven to be one of the biggest reasons why the US is in trouble and bogged down (side note - if this is true, did the US want us to go to war? ).

26/11, Kabul and other many attacks were simple. It was TSP saying "Yes I did it! Now Hit me". I think going to war with TSP would have united TSP and solved some big internal problems for TSPA. US would be happy as Taliban might be diverted away from Afghanistan and they will head for Kashmir - more Indian resources will be spent on war and not on developing the economy (lets face it, US is worried about our rise and they know India is the next big world power - the british did this in Iraq, you know MI6 had a small station in Kuwait city just to watch the Iraq - Kuwait border and they were just waiting for the day that Iraq would invade.)

If we leave TSP alone - they are left with a begging bowl and at 26/11 time, I think many territories were being taken over by the Taliban. Swat was big in the news at the time right? So MMS and strategicwalla's probably thought, "we don't need to do anything, TSP are already at war internally and their economy can't survive on its own now without funds being doled out by KSA/US".Even today, we know that TSP is worried about Pashtun nationalism and a seperate nation. We also had a lot of success in J&K against terrorists, which helped a lot.

So, in summary, what is GoI trying to do - just wait for TSPs demise, Priority number 1 is our economy - this will allow us to spend TSP to the ground. Talk to TSP govt just to play to the international audience.

Sorry if things are a bit jumbled up in this post and I maybe wrong. This is just my opinion.

Thanks for that post.
Really clarifies things, and sheds light on many others.

IIRC, ISI Pasha was in the Indian embassy dinners, and the ISI has hosted the Indian embassy staffers and ambassador to dinner recently. It is highly possible that the Intel station chief in Islamabad and/or the Ambassador is interacting with the ISI. (What a litany of complaints, woes, begging bowls they must be beseeched with!)
If we remember there was a move, I think after havana, that the Intel agencies of the two countries will share intel, which most people here (including me) scoffed at. It would appear that the strategywallas were pushing for a track II to the Pak fauj.

The ISI seems to be the body that is subservient to the Pak army. This is the conventional thinking, that it is an arm of the Pak military. But I wonder if this 'arm' is not actually the brain of the pakistani military? It is probable that they now make policy, because they have all the intel. I am sure that all the core commanders don't trust each other and some might not even see eye to eye with the COAS. If this is true, then one body which everyone reposes their faith on would be the ISI. IOW, ISI is the narad muni inside the pak fauj, except in pakistan, narad muni does a quiet coup and actually runs the country.

If India is talking to the ISI, then it is talking to the nerve center of the pakistani state. There is both opportunity and possibility of stability in this.

How does talking to ISI possibly bring stability? I agree with your other point, that it may be the nerve center in some odd way. I doubt the PA Chief knows or the ISI informs who it recruits to the PA chief. SO recruits may include even bodyguards for the PA chief or those entrusted to his security. The PA chief might be knowing that and it may be a factor that the PA Chief does'nt cross swords with the ISI. But if ISI through it's dark nature controls PA in this manner, how does India talking to it give any semblence of 'stability'. There's a disconnect. JMT

The ISI chief might be an independent power center because of all the info he has. He might be playing the core commanders against each other.

My reference to stability is in the context of pro quid quo with the ISI. India's objective is to reduce the attention that Pakistan's ISI seeks by its terrorist actions.

Now why does the ISI seek India's attention? Liberation of kashmir, water, and the entire litany of complaints that Pakistan has against India is all bullshit, all creations of the ISI/Pak army. They want something from India and it isn't any of the above.

Talking to them might let us in on how they can be dealt with. The stability that I talk of, is in this context.

To keep the ISI's price down, India must take certain actions that'll give India leverage.

Excerpt from interview of US National Security Advisor James L Jones by CNN-IBN:

Rajdeep Sardesai: What we have gathered from the confessions of David Coleman Headley has suggested that Pakistani state actors were involved in 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks. Have these concerns been registered by Washington with Islamabad because India has registered them. But has Washington also registered those concerns with Islamabad?

James Jones: First of all Headley interview with India are a manifestation of the growing good state of relationship between our two countries We have to have more co-operation on intelligence matters so that we can be successful in defeating terror where ever it presents itself. In our bilateral relationship with Pakistan, we have expressed our strong concerns over the existence within the borders of Pakistan of terrorist organisation that goals to destabilize and attack our way of life, your way of life, to prevent our strategic goals from being achieved in Afghanistan. This is in violent conflict with how we see the world collectively and bilaterally in the 21st century. Pakistan must recognise that it is a contrary to their own interests for the future in the stability of the region to continue to tolerate the existence of insurgents within their borders. So, the first means of correcting that and as a first means of showing that Pakistan wants the same thing that we want they have to make a tough decision to go after these terrorist organisations. Moreover, they need to state concretely and publicly that this is a matter of policy and this cannot be tolerated.

Rajdeep Sardesai: India has made Hafeez Saeed, the Lashkar chief - the one of the most wanted as a test case; for Pakistan's ability to act on terror. Headley specially named Saeed as the mastermind behind the 26/11 attacks. He is roaming freely in Pakistan and he is making anti-India speeches. Would that be a test case also in a sense when we say Pakistan should also act against terror and stop making it an instrument of state policy in any form, must address India's concern. Would that be a test case to you that if Pakistan wants to act against someone like Saeed? Would that reassure Washington that Pakistan is serious. Would you like to see Pakistan do that?

James Jones: Yes. We want to see a more comprehensive programme that addresses all aspects of terrorism. Because all of these groups that we are finding out are linked. They are not necessarily targeted one nation or the other. They are terrorist organisations that have in mind to disrupt India, to disrupt our way of life and they are actively planning to do that.

CNN-IBN

Leopold Cafe added as target by Headley

Headley has told interrogators that Leopold Cafe was not an original target for the 26/11 attack. He said that while walking down the road, video camera in hand, from Colaba police station towards the state police headquarters, for the first time he noticed a lot of foreigners and a large buzzing crowd at Leopold,” the sources said.

Headley made five extended trips to Mumbai before the 26/11 attack — in September 2006, February and September 2007, and April and July 2008 — each time making videotapes of various targets. Before each trip, Lashkar members and associates allegedly instructed him to survey specific locations. Headley travelled to Pakistan after each trip to meet his handlers, report on the results of his surveillance and provide photos and videos.

“Although he was asked to scout the Taj Hotel, Colaba police station and the state police headquarters on that stretch, Headley revealed that he took an impromptu decision to video-record Leopold and give the footage to his handlers,” said the source.

On 26/11, gunmen Abu Shoaib and Abu Umer casually walked into Leopold Cafe and started spraying bullets from their AK-47 assault rifles and lobbing grenades. In the mayhem, 11 people, including two foreign nationals, were killed. A total of 28 persons, including nine foreigners, were seriously injured.

'Pakistani navy trainer trained 26/11 terrorists' http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100719/81 ... -11_1.html

Pakistan denies allegations over Mumbai attacks

ISLAMABAD: Foreign Ministry spokesman Abdul Basit dismissed allegations by India on Tuesday, which claimed that Pakistan's establishment and David Headley were involved in the Mumbai attacks.

He said that the Indian establishment was giving statements against Pakistan deliberately as part of a well thought out plan.

In a notice from the Foreign Office, it was stated that it is essential that propoganda from both the countries should stop and the two nations should focus on the peace process initiated at the SAARC summit in Bhutan.

Abdul Basit also said that for peaceful conditions to exist in South Asia, Pakistan and India need to work together and relations between the two must prosper.

He said that India's National Security Advisor Shiv Shankar Menon's statement was highly irresponsible and baseless. – DawnNews

Now Paa'stan is forced to deny involvement of their instituions , army , navy , ISI in 2611. So the focus would shift to state actors.

harbans wrote:How does talking to ISI possibly bring stability? I agree with your other point, that it may be the nerve center in some odd way. I doubt the PA Chief knows or the ISI informs who it recruits to the PA chief. SO recruits may include even bodyguards for the PA chief or those entrusted to his security. The PA chief might be knowing that and it may be a factor that the PA Chief does'nt cross swords with the ISI. But if ISI through it's dark nature controls PA in this manner, how does India talking to it give any semblence of 'stability'. There's a disconnect. JMT

Harbans, While the ISI is organized as a modern insititution, its role and responsibilities are more akin to the Mukhabarat of the Early Islamic Caliphs and Sultans. In other words it has morphed into the Islamist thought police and is thus the nerve center of the TSP state.

There is very little literature on the nature of the Mukhabarat of the olden days, but the scraps we have show its the eyes and years of the Sultanate and the ideological core of the entity. Every TSPA chief has done a stint at ISI and gets his ideology strengthened.

Its mistake to think of it as a mere military/police organization.

NBWs against 2 Pak rangers, 3 LeT operatives http://www.dailypioneer.com/270695/NBWs ... tives.html

Islamabad Ghabla:

This is my theory:

1) Headley divulged the details linking ISI to Mumbai 26/11.

2) USA did not want that Pakistani Army is put on the spot as a sponsor of terrorism. It disturbs the illusion that the Pakistani Army is an ally in the war on terror and not the terrorist, even though all sides know the truth about the terrorist army.

3) In India there was some information in the public domain - that the perpetrators, the masterminds were Hafiz Saeed, Lakhvi, etc. - the L-e-T.

4) Talking about Pakistan-sponsored Terror with Pakistan, is not MMS strong suit. He would rather simply wish it away with some pappi-japhi. But regardless of how much he tries, reality is reality and he has to talk 'terror'. His has accepted it as his maximum brief to get a few named terrorists to be brought to court in Pakistan and sentenced. Even this is something that the Pakistanis are not willing to yield on.

5) So when Headley started singing and told about ISI links, MMS and USA came to an understanding, that the ISI link would be used to pressure the the Pakistani Establishment to bring Hafiz Saeed to court but not to stamp Pakistan as a State sponsor of Terrorism. If the Pakis go after Hafiz Saeed, India would stay her hand, keep it under wraps, and not confront Pakistan with the evidence against ISI.

6) Most probably some in the government, like Chidambaram were not happy with this course of action. Chidambaram wanted to nail Pakistan publicly. Any court process against Hafiz Saeed and some years of house arrest with all sorts of biryani and kabap, would hardly have been a satisfactory. MMS wanted to remain in the good books of Obama Administration, to keep his dialog with Pakistan on track and at the same to get the laurels for getting Hafiz Saeed 'behind bars', the Indian public acknowledging that MMS could get things done and he had chosen the right approach to dealing with Pakistan, a superior approach to those suggested by jingoes.

7) Chidambaram threw a spanner in the works. He asked Mr. G.K. Pillai to go public with what we had gathered from Headley.

8 ) Minister of External Affairs, Mr. S.M. Krishna went to Pakistan as MMS's man to work on this deal. S.M. Qureishi told him, that they could think of such a deal, but the agreement with MMS on reaching some comprehensive deal had to speeded up. That is why he wanted to talk about the other issues as well, about Kashmir, about water. If the Paki Establishment were to book Hafiz Saeed, they wanted an understanding on the whole gamut of issues. MMS could not afford to rush through with this agenda, especially as there were no results to show for in terms of Mumbai 26/11 investigation from Pakistan as yet. For Pakistan, it was not sufficient that MMS was offering them to spare the Pakistanis the ignominy of being accused of being State sponsors of Terrorism. The Pakistanis misjudged that it was not a big thing if they were being accused of this. India has done that many times before. They were probably not taking the Headley evidence that seriously. They saw that MMS was willing to relent and to strike a deal, so they thought, it would be the right time to push him on the comprehensive deal.

9) Chidambaram was aware of the going ons. He had to stop MMS from reaching a deal, be it a partial deal between India and Pakistan on Hafiz Saeed for Indian silence of ISI complicity, or some grand understanding, with India giving even more concessions, just so MMS can show India some progress on Hafiz Saeed case. So both things were crucial - the ISI complicity exposé as well as the timing of this exposé. Had S.M. Krishna struck some deal with Qureishi (Pakistan Establishment) and had he come home with that agreement, it would have been a done deal. The Cabinet would have had to go along, as it would have been sold in the Cabinet as forwards movement by the Pakistanis.

10) Mr. G.K. Pillai's exposé undid all the grand plans MMS had as well the hopes Qureishi had of getting something from India. Everything was now in the open.

11) Americans were unhappy. It went against their understanding with India on the tactics of handing Pakistan and perhaps also against FBI's terms of interrogation of Headley by NIA. Their speaker has already spoken about each side sticking to their 'responsibility', etc.

12) Chidambaram knew he was risking American cooperation on Headley, but he reckoned that it was better to be bold right now.

13) S.M. Krishna and Qureishi were both mad at the revelations. The deal had fallen apart. India had nothing more to give the Pakistanis. It was out in the open - that ISI was complicit in the Mumbai Terror Attacks - actually an Act of War. As the anger was mutual against Mr. G.K. Pillai, Krishna also felt no need to come to the defense of his colleague at the press conference.

14) Later on MMS and Krishna tried to save their skins, claiming that the only unfortunate thing was the timing of the revelation by Mr. G.K. Pillai, and not the contents of the revelation, as the timing became a hindrance in coming to some agreement with the Pakistanis. That is just a half-truth of course.

15) S.M. Krishna met with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Kabul, all very Sharm, Sharm! Hillary Clinton probably thought, what a pile of shit.

16) Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao has been saying, that the dialog with Pakistan has not come to an end, and it will continue. This lady may or may not understand, that everything has changed. Now Pakistan stands accused of Terrorism. One cannot turn back the clock! But she still wants to give her boss some hope!

17) Basically Mr. Chidambaram and Mr. G.K. Pillai did a great service to India. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the GoI.

amit wrote:Rajesh,

Very good analysis.

But one thing doesn't add up. And that is the NSA's comment in between the Islamabad fiasco and Krishna's stupid comments about Pillai ji.

If we assume that the NSA is in the MMS Pappi Jhappi camp then why would he make those remarks which, if you look at it, went even further than Pillai ji's comments?

Was Krishna's remarks aimed assuaging the US more than the Pacquis after the meeting with Hillary bahen in Kabul?

PS: My personal opinion is that Krishna's interview to IBN blows a hole in the hypothesis that the whole thing was well-orchestrated. It still could be so as some are saying but we've got to wait and see.

The NSA knows that the cat is out of the bag. Any criticism of Mr. Pillai would be suicidal for MMS, were it to come out, what the whole deal was. So it is better to come out in full support of Mr. Pillai and some anti-Pakistan rhetoric right now, as the talks were already dead anyway.

Krishna is harping on spilled milk and trying to justify his initial reaction in Islamabad, that it is all about the timing and nothing more. Probably also trying to downplay the whole thing.

amit wrote:

RajeshA wrote:The NSA knows that the cat is out of the bag. Any criticism of Mr. Pillai would be suicidal for MMS, were it to come out, what the whole deal was. So it is better to come out in full support of Mr. Pillai and some anti-Pakistan rhetoric right now, as the talks were already dead anyway.

Krishna is harping on spilled milk and trying to justify his initial reaction in Islamabad, that it is all about the timing and nothing more. Probably also trying to downplay the whole thing.

Boss,

Again you could be right. But that would suggest that Krishna was acting on his own during this stupid interview. Does he have that kind of spunk or is he incredibly stupid?

Somehow the dots don't add up.

Well actually Krishna was made to feel very stupid in Islamabad. MMS sent Krishna there to hammer out a deal on the lines of Hafiz Saeed for Silence on ISI complicity. Instead his negotiating position is undercut by the revelations from Mr. G.K. Pillai. Now Krishna was not acting on his own. He was given his brief by MMS.

However after G.K. Pillai made his revelation, NSA tried to save his boss, MMS, by coming in favor of a hard line with Pakistan, but in Islamabad, it was Krishna who was publicly putting out his head out of the window. Now Krishna can't really admit that it was all MMS's idea. Otherwise Krishna loses his standing as an independent minded External Affairs Minister. Qureishi already hinted at that with Krishna getting his orders from Delhi.

So Krishna has to fend for himself now, so he is harping on the timing of the revelations, as being the reason, which undercut his negotiating position. MMS can't really come to the defense of his own man, the man he sent to Islamabad to do his dirty work!

The crux of the matter is that MMS wanted to bury the evidence of Pakistan's complicity in Mumbai 26/11 in exchange for selling some address change for Hafiz Saeed within Pakistan as a victory for India and a peace agreement with Pakistan. He thought he could carry the Home Ministry with him, but Chidambaram refused to play ball.

Somehow it reminds me of the last season of 24.

MMS needs to be questioned on this by the Indian Parliament and a no-confidence motion should be brought against him, if it proves to be true. This is gaddari!

Satyamev Jayate!

Adiala Trial adjourned by a week until July 31 as Judge is absent

A Pakistani anti-terror court on Saturday adjourned for a week the trial of LeT commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and six other suspects charged with involvement in the Mumbai attacks as the judge was away to attend an official meeting.

Court officials said the case had been adjourned till July 31 due to the judge's absence.

Sources also said that Judge Awan was likely to go on leave for three weeks in the near future and this could further delay proceedings in the trial.

See here for a chronology of court drama in Pakistan

Question to folks: Did the US want India to invade TSP post 26/11? Did they know about 26/11? Post Kabul attacks US gave us evidence on Kayani intercepts. Did they want us to goto war - is this situation similar to how Russia got dragged into Afghanistan? or even US ambassador gave green light to Saddam to invade kuwait?