Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2010

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 06 May 2010 07:36

While Zakaria talks, as usual, lots of sense, his constant harping on Indian theme all through the interview unfortunately plays right into the hands of Pakbarian animals that keep saying to Unkil -> "you deliver India's head we will become normal humans"
and is quite tempting for B. Hussein Obama to pander to that sentiment.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 May 2010 07:38

Looks like some good news U.S. to send Pakistan detailed request for help in Times Square bomb probe

Pressure on Pakistan to escalate its domestic counterterrorism operations, particularly toward Kashmir- and India-focused militants, could increase anti-U.S. sentiment there, while any perceived Pakistani hesitation would undermine congressional and public support here.

I think the best way to deal with unkil is via India caucus with lobbying on the hill.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 06 May 2010 07:48

Gems from the WP article by Karen de Yong...

Pressure on Pakistan to escalate its domestic counterterrorism operations, particularly toward Kashmir- and India-focused militants, could increase anti-U.S. sentiment there

Thanks for clarifying that JEM,LET are not just fringe groups in a country of very peaceful people...as some WKKs here try to project..

Haji Nazairullah, 70, said that the family is apolitical and that the village was shocked by the charges, which he suggested had been trumped up in the United States. "How can I trust the Faisal statement in the custody of Americans?" asked Nazairullah

we will continue to live in our own world of inner pakistaniyat and shut eyes to all truth...

He grew a beard, and I felt a little change in his outlook. . . . Something happened to him

Great news...any Pakbarian animal with a beard will now be EVEN MORE suspected

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 May 2010 07:50

May 05, 2010
A Pakistani-American on the Times Sq. bomber
letter to the editor
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... e_tim.html

I vehemently condemn the attempted bombing of Times Square by, I am ashamed to say, a Pakistani American.

Fellow, non-Pakistani Americans, before you judge all of us, please remember that there is a silent majority of Muslims who wholeheartedly, emphatically condemns such terrorist activities. Why don't hear about them? It's because they remain mute, too afraid to speak or not passionate enough to get out there in public and condemn such acts of terror for fear of reprisals. They wait for others to speak for them and because of that reason they are "silent".

The moment the Pakistani suspect was arrested, there was a deluge of emails from my family and friends condemning the actions of this misguided individual. Some family members were openly urging the US to try him in military court and condemn him to death; some were blaming the Pakistani governments, past and present, for not taking stern action against the radicals. One friend solely blamed the intelligence agencies of Pakistan, ISI, for not sharing intelligence and harboring such terrorists. Another person's advice was for the US government to send more drones and finish the "devils" once and for all. Thus, no expletives were spared in condemning the radicals, the misguided so-called Muslims.

The fact is that military might will not be able to solve this problem of radicalization. Young Muslims are being brainwashed into following Wahabiism- the Saudi Islam. This intolerant and radical version of Islam has to be fought ideologically. The Muslims, the majority of who don't subscribe to this version must unite in their efforts to root it out of their neighborhoods, their schools (madarsahs) and their lives. It is in the best interest of the entire Muslim Ummah to unite in this cause otherwise this will eat us all like a cancer. This also means that the government of Pakistan has to deal heavy-handedly with hatred inciting clerics. For this, moderate, silent majority, of Pakistanis must come out of their drawing rooms and support the government and military in their efforts to root out the radicals. Even though, the US government is channeling billions of dollars of aid, anti-Americanism is at its peak in Pakistan. Some people attribute that rise to the shortage of basic necessities for the common people, power, jobs, food shortages, and Zardari government's inability to solve these crises have compounded the problem of anti-Americanism. The only two institutions that are capable of rooting out terrorism are the civil society and the military. However, they need the support of millions of Pakistanis that are US and UK educated, work for the multinationals or run successful businesses. They are the ones that can bring the ideological change required to pull Pakistan out of its quagmire.

Anila Ali
http://www.anilaali.com

Many jewels...

1. Majority of Muslims are silent even when confronted with defamation of Islam
2. Silent majority is afraid of reprisals - from whom? People from their own faith. And birader Anila calls them mis-guided.
3. But they want "others" to speak for them - Even if that results in repraisals from their radical-brotheren.
4. Then he calls all the people who call for the "death" of all those radical Muslims, who are a threat to fellow Americans and muslims too, not a fair approach.
5. Now let us blame Sunni-Wahabis. Are they part of Ummah?
6. Recommends to fight the wahabi islam "Ideologically". What will that ideology be? Islamic or non-islamic? Can there exist another islamic-ideology separate from wahabism which came from Saudi Arabia, the kingdom of holy places?
7. What strains of Islam are included in his Ummah? First of all does Islam allow many strains of religion?
8. The current culprit is a naturalized US citizen, who holds an MBA and is employed in USA. Even in Pakistan he belongs to a wealthy family? What is the cause of his anti-americanism?
9. There are two govts in Pakistan, political and army. They are managing the $Bs of US Aid. And he confirms that the aid is not reaching the commoners; but recommends more help to the political and army govts of pakistan.
10. He wants the US/UK educated pakis to help pakistani govts. The current and previous attacks in US by Pakis are executed by these very US/UK-pakistanis.

One highly IPCP.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 May 2010 07:52

Karna_A wrote:
shiv wrote:Absolutely. If an Indian lives in India and has some feelings of kinship with Pakistan, is he less patriotic than the Indian who lives in the US and feels some kinship towards the US?
Yes, surely because TSP is an enemy country whereas US is not.

Thank you for stating this. This is exactly the point I have been trying to make and you have provided an example more powerful than any statement I have ever made on the subject. A large number of Indians, including yourself, feel more positive about the US and do not see US actions as anti-India despite the fact that the US is funding the "enemy nation" Pakistan to survive and arming that nation to fight India.

There is a subtle but undeniable pressure from Indians themselves, from within and outside India for India to deal with Pakistan in isolation while continuing to ignore the US and its blatant anti-India actions. I have been stating this time and again in thread after thread.

The US enjoys a great reputation and sympathy among Indians that are at odds with the real actions that the US takes.

One question stems from this

If Indians can view the US with sympathy despite its anti India stance why can an Indian not feel sympathy for Pakistan despite its anti India stance? As far as I can tell the only difference is that the US is capable of paying off Indians in various ways to buy their paradoxical loyalty. And if Pakistan pays off some Indians, their loyalty too can be bought.

Under these circumstances the meaning of patriotism itself comes into question.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 May 2010 08:06

RamaY wrote:
May 05, 2010
A Pakistani-American on the Times Sq. bomber

2. Silent majority is afraid of reprisals - from whom? People from their own faith. And birader Anila calls them mis-guided.

Anila is a motorma...

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 May 2010 08:07

From Washington Post article

So far, the only specific U.S. request has been to interview Shahzad's parents; a Pakistani official said the parents had not been located.

So, Vice Air Marshal saab has disappeared.

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 06 May 2010 08:14

CRamS wrote:The vast majority of us are deeply frustrated with US policies. And I have personally and in my own way tried my best to bring this out to Amercian elite. And often times even at the expense of making a fool of myself.

CRS, I agree fully. However, the American 'elites' are not as dumb as you think. They already know. And they want the status quo to continue.

For too long, I have watched well-meaning Indians trying to convince them, but to no avail. The question they will ask you...why do YOU live here (as Citizen, Permanent Resident) if you are still loyal to India. This line of argument is heard most often. It is easy enough to counter, but why bother?

Finally, I would like some of us to be a little more careful in revealing....

Many people read BR (sometimes, for all the wrong reasons) - including those redneck EJ southern blanc (blanche?) Trash - like TSJ - who I know will read this post as well...

Seems he cannot reconcile being booted out of here. As someone here said, you can swim in our pool, just don't piss in it..

All that old lard does is "report BR spy activity" on the great Blue Collar Forum of semi-literate "Conservatives" - TankNet. As if they need additional reasons to be suspicious of a 'Hindu India'.

As an aside, whatever my personal feelings about Obama, I love the effect his presidency is having on them....

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 06 May 2010 08:15

Suppiah wrote:While Zakaria talks, as usual, lots of sense, his constant harping on Indian theme all through the interview unfortunately plays right into the hands of Pakbarian animals that keep saying to Unkil -> "you deliver India's head we will become normal humans"
and is quite tempting for B. Hussein Obama to pander to that sentiment.

Heh Zakaria hammers TSP more than the Indian media. NRI onlee.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 06 May 2010 08:19

Manu wrote:

For too long, I have watched well-meaning Indians trying to convince them, but to no avail. The question they will ask you...why do YOU live here (as Citizen, Permanent Resident) if you are still loyal to India. This line of argument is heard most often. It is easy enough to counter, but why bother?

I don't think that notion is true. Are pro-Israel Jews accused of being loyal to Israel? Why is that not seen as a problem?

We could have it that way too if NRIs are powerful enough and intertwine US and India foreign policy the same way.

Although I'm not sure I would want India to be a partially owned subsidiary of the US the way Israel is.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 May 2010 08:22

I asked R-man, but he ignored my question

; but does anybody know if one of the conditions in the KL bill requiring TSP to crack down on LET has been diluted after TSP protested furiously? The WP article above says that TSP will be reluctant to crack down on LET, for sure, but doesn't the KL bill require it unless it has been diluted?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 May 2010 08:30

Khwaja saga continue
Khawaja's murder: a dark indicator

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=237760

He had not catered for the split that is now believed to separate the Pakistani Taliban, increasingly dominated by elements from Punjab, and the Afghan Taliban. Khawaja's loyalty to the Afghans may have been his undoing. The new groups which have emerged from the ranks of militants in Punjab have no affinity with the ISI men who worked hand-in-hand with the former 'mujahideen'. The old alliance may be at breaking point.

Potentially, at least, this could prove an extremely significant development. The present-day leadership of the military appears to have recognised that the old links with the militants need to end. Khawaja's attempts over the last two years to re-establish these ties failed. The possibility that the military and the intelligence agencies could withdraw their hand from the militants would of course raise new hope that they can indeed be defeated. For this to happen it is imperative that the powerful props that have held them up through the years be removed.The murder also raises questions about what games are being played now. The Punjabi Taliban killed a former ISI man; they also appear to have developed very deep differences with the Afghans. Some reports suggest that the demand to hand over key Afghan Taliban leaders was intended to take these men captive rather than secure their release. There is further confusion. Lack of clarity persists on whether authorities have made any real effort to go after the likes of Mullah Omar, or whether he and other key Afghan leaders were 'protected' in Quetta. This is what Kabul suspects. At the same time we do not know why any effort is not made to go after the militant groups in Punjab or why the provincial leaderships argues that they do not exist. It could be that we are once more seeing various powerful factions play their own games.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 May 2010 08:37

shiv,

The US does pose a problem to India with regard to Pakistan. But the US also has interests aligned with India. For instance, look at Indo-US trade and investment figures.

You cannot equate Pakistan and the US as problems - which is what you're doing.

---

As to who is the master and who is the servant in US-Pak relations, we all have our opinions. Question is - who is getting what they want? Seems to me the US is mostly not and Pakistan mostly is.

---

As to whether US-India relationship is that of allies or competitors - it is both. The US did not hesitate to strip its ally/competitor Great Britain of petroleum rights all over the world and screw them over Suez. (The installation of the Shah of Iran was the means of moving Iranian oil from British to American control.) So being one does not preclude being the other also.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 May 2010 08:42

Manu wrote: For too long, I have watched well-meaning Indians trying to convince them, but to no avail.

In my opinion, that is because well-meaning Indians typically try to tell them why it is good for India and therefore for the US.

One really needs to tell them how to do good for themselves/the US, and only incidentally why it is also good for India.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 06 May 2010 08:44

And if Pakistan pays off some Indians, their loyalty too can be bought.
OT:The ancestors of Pakis-the Mughals,Nizam,Nawabs of Bengal and Oudh, and Tipu did that in the past.When one looks at the antics of Raja(IT Minister),caste based census,Mandalisation etc we can understand the more loyal to the US than the goras themselves attitude of some BRFites.

As Shivji has himself pointed out and everyone of us knows,the US has given a lifeline to many many upper class(caste) Indians.They have got the education,jobs and lifestyle they would not have got as middle class indians.No wonder the US has contempt for some of Indias pretensions.But the faultlines within Indian society are not a unique Indian phenomenon.The social engineering by British have made many NRI upper class Indians more conscious of this 'dichotomy'.The masturbation we see here is a reflection of the frustrations and to a certain extent ignorance of the Indian reality which is far more messy.

From the American view,India today is far stronger than at any time past and Indian-Americans have played a big role in that.Also the Americans are frustrated that India has checkmated PAK-US on Cashmere.By all accounts,Porkistan has a reasonable claim on Cashmere.We have outdid the goras by the flag of 'secularism'.The Pakis and US wanted Cashmere ignoring the civilisational background.Our stranglehold on Cashmere has bled pakistan to near death.The Pakis have delivered to US but the US can never deliver Cashmere.There is hand wringing in GOTUS that in some sense Porkistan has nothing to show for after all these years of Guboing.

Despite social engineering,partition etc India is strong,Pakistan has failed.US will try 'everything' or pretend to do everything for pakistan.From the US perspective,it makes sense to support Pakistan.But as India subdues LTTE,'integrates' all the social classes in a modern economy,as there is greater geographical mobility through out India and provincial satraps are firmly shown their place(Pawar and Karunanidhi going to Delhi to 'explain' corruption),US realisation that India is 'not just a geographical entity like equator' will grow stronger.As many have observed here,India is more a civilisational nation state than the traditional nation states of Western Europe.This does not make India better but different.The Congress model is not of Arjunas crossing Wagah border and destroying Paki armies single handedly.

The MMS govt has just come with a stronger set of proposals on climate change and these are more important issues than TSP.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 06 May 2010 08:50

False alarm on the RNY Bridge shutdown in NY.

Post halaled.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 May 2010 08:58

Also the Americans are frustrated that India has checkmated PAK-US on Cashmere.By all accounts,Porkistan has a reasonable claim on Cashmere.

Is there any kind of documentary evidence for this claim? E.g., we have the Nixon-Kissinger tapes, we have piles of other declassified stuff. Is there anywhere this alleged frustration expressed?

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 May 2010 08:59

1) An India TSP equal equal love fest organized by former US ambassador Frank Wisner at Columbia univ, NYC. When I could not take the equal equal even from someone like Salman Haider, who was bending over backward in praising the "statesmanship" of Mush, I tried pointing out that this kind of talk suits both US & TSP, but fails to deal with TSP terror which is the only core issue. I was asked to leave the auditorium for being "harsh" on Salman Haider (I mentioned that even Mush's spokesman wouldn't be batting for him so eloquently).

2) An India bashing binge at Swathmore college, Phily, PA by "South Asians", mostly Indian academics, Kashmiri Muslims, and of course Pakis including Hussein Haqqani. The topic was Kashmir and nukes. Like a pack of sheep, everybody was paitning India as the villain. From "human rights" abuses to "Gujarat riots" to nuclearizing the "South Asian" garden of Eden. I tried pointing to TSP terror only to be mocked as a "Hindu Jihadi" (by an Indian prof from PA state univ). The last straw that broke this camel's back was when a retd Indian army officer turned peacenick and his Kashmiri Pandit wife (if I recall, she has written a famous cookbook on Kashmiri cusine) asked me to get out as I am spoiling the love fest. The retd officer also mocked my "NRI patriotism" and told me how deluded I was because according to him if Indian army had the capability to kick Paki ass, they would have done it, and it is easy for "NRI patriots" like me to ask others to fight, and stir trouble at the "South Asian" loves fest who have the nobel intention of spreading brotherhood in the region despite people like me.

Great work, CRS-ji.

Sad to see our own countrymen ( and high powered ones at that) being more loyal to Paki ambitions than the Pakis themselves.

archan · Post by **archan** » 06 May 2010 09:00

A_Gupta wrote: As to who is the master and who is the servant in US-Pak relations, we all have our opinions. Question is - who is getting what they want? Seems to me the US is mostly not and Pakistan mostly is.

You mean the paki army and "establishment" is. The life of their common man has gone from bad to worse. There is a limit to how much general populace can take. I am waiting to see when that happens, if it does, and what the repercussions are. You cannot wage jehad empty stomach for too long.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 May 2010 09:00

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/06/nyreg ... mb.html?hp
NYTimes

WASHINGTON — American officials said Wednesday that it was very likely that a radical group once thought unable to attack the United States had played a role in the bombing attempt in Times Square, elevating concerns about whether other militant groups could deliver at least a glancing blow on American soil.

Officials said that after two days of intense questioning of the bombing suspect, Faisal Shahzad, evidence was mounting that the group, the Pakistani Taliban, had helped inspire and train Mr. Shahzad in the months before he is alleged to have parked an explosives-filled sport utility vehicle in a busy Manhattan intersection on Saturday night. Officials said Mr. Shahzad had discussed his contacts with the group, and investigators had accumulated other evidence that they would not disclose.

Why this is important is that there are no longer any Paki jihadi groups that can be seen by the US as India-specific.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 May 2010 09:04

Money Woes, Long Silences and Islamic Zeal

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/06/nyreg ... ofile.html

Last year, one Pakistani friend said, he even asked his father, Bahar ul-Haq, a retired high-ranking air force pilot in Pakistan, for permission to fight in Afghanistan.

Mr. Haq, now in his 70s, adamantly refused, according to a person familiar with the conversation, saying that he disapproved of the mission and reminding his son that Islam does not permit a man to abandon his wife or children.

Family friends interviewed on Wednesday said they believed that Mr. Haq was in hiding in the city of Dera Ghazi Khan in western Pakistan, where the family has wheat fields

But James Hart, an Affinion spokesman, said “there’s a lot of résumé puffery in there” and that Mr. Shahzad had been “one rung up from entry level” when he left.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 May 2010 09:05

CRamS wrote: . . . but does anybody know if one of the conditions in the KL bill requiring TSP to crack down on LET has been diluted after TSP protested furiously?

The short answer is yes, it was.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 May 2010 09:05

Well said venkat. I will quote two well summarized truths which otherwise need volumes to explain.

svenkat wrote: Indian reality which is far more messy.
<snip>
India is more a civilisational nation state than the traditional nation states of Western Europe.

I will merely nitpick one sentence

The ancestors of Pakis-the Mughals,Nizam,Nawabs of Bengal and Oudh

This is what the Paki RAPE want everyone to believe. This is of course rubbish.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 May 2010 09:09

I would like to request a stop to fratricide or fragging where members end up attacking each other. I hope this is understood as a warning for those who are indulging in that for what ever reasons, high minded or not.

Thanks for the cooperation.

archan · Post by **archan** » 06 May 2010 09:14

With the above, I would also like to state that those who indulge in behavior that irritates quite a few members, might get into trouble as well. Irritating behavior also includes persistent whining.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 May 2010 09:16

A_Gupta wrote: The US does pose a problem to India with regard to Pakistan. But the US also has interests aligned with India. For instance, look at Indo-US trade and investment figures.
<snip>
As to whether US-India relationship is that of allies or competitors - it is both. The US did not hesitate to strip its ally/competitor Great Britain of petroleum rights all over the world and screw them over Suez. (The installation of the Shah of Iran was the means of moving Iranian oil from British to American control.) So being one does not preclude being the other also.

Ok accepting both as absolutely true can it be said that the solution that India can apply to its Pakistan problem is the same solution that the US is applying and that India needs to learn how to handle Pakistan from the US?

There is no way that India can treat Pakistan the way the US does. Viewing the India Pakistan relationship from a US viewpoint and stating how rosy it looks from the US side and how India must aspire to make things look equally rosy is the particular attitude that I have a problem with. I also have a problem with an attitude that claims that it is possible for India to deal with Pakistan without taking US aid to Pakistan and US interests into consideration.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 06 May 2010 09:16

Suppiah wrote:
surinder wrote: That is all the sum total of TSP contributions.
You are forgetting Suriah, Ghulam Ali and probably many others...they are great by any standards

anyway the point is even those TSP'ians that are good artists (and that also includes IMs), you find that they are very secular, deeply religious but respect other religions incl. hindu religion.

Suriah was Indian. She died in Mumbai, as a spinster pining for Dev Anand.

Ghulam Ali sang a few good ghazals, but was limited in his scope. We have lot of such ghazal singers. Nothing about him is indispensible or very outstanding in contribution to Indian ghazal gayaki.

Indian music has not received anything from TSP so far that is irreplacable or irrestible.

IM are Indians, period. They are not Pakis. They are us, fully and completely. We are only talking of Pakis.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 May 2010 09:23

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/050510b.html

(More objective observers might say, “Pakistan, Pakistan, Pakistan,” an unstable Islamic nation that actually acquired nuclear weapons with the acquiescence of the Reagan administration in the 1980s and is today the home for al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups, including the trainers of alleged Time Square bomber Faisal Shahzad. Shahzad's father, Bahar Ul Haq, was a former Pakistani air vice marshal reportedly with some responsibility over the security of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.)

Check this out. This is is a new info

This could be a target arrest to go after the nuclear hawks of Pakistan

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 06 May 2010 09:26

shiv wrote:
Thank you for stating this. This is exactly the point I have been trying to make and you have provided an example more powerful than any statement I have ever made on the subject. A large number of Indians, including yourself, feel more positive about the US and do not see US actions as anti-India despite the fact that the US is funding the "enemy nation" Pakistan to survive and arming that nation to fight India.

Shiv,

Some people don't wear Krishna Menon glasses where they have a fixed opinion and then twist facts to prove them.
You believe that US is the enemy whereas there are other people that believe US acts in its short term self interest which is sometimes aligned and sometimes against India.

By your convoluted logic, India is the greatest enemy of Israel. After all who is the one of the biggest customer of Iranian Oil, if not India. And where do Iranians get all money to fund Hizbollah/Hamas if not from India.

The reason your line of thinking is out of whack with reality becomes more apparent with the solution that is proposed.
Your thinking would lead to the solution that since US is the problem, India should first deal with US before TSP aka Krishna Menon and his 6 hour speech in UN.
The other line of thinking is that since US always acts in its own self interest, how can India align its interest with US interest. This is PVNR thinking.

Now you tell me if Krishna Menon thinking for 40 years worked for India or did PVNR thinking for 10 years worked for long term India's benefit.

The riddle of TSP is wrapped in the enigma of US. My way is to understand the enigma, your way is to wrap it in another puzzle.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 06 May 2010 09:29

surinder wrote: Suriah was Indian. She died in Mumbai, as a spinster pining for Dev Anand.

Oops..sorry for the error. Love her songs..particularly the ghazalish ones

Anyway, I mentioned IM only in the context of senior and important artists having certain common 'culture' and outlook to religion etc. I agree with you they cannot and should not be compared to Pakis.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 06 May 2010 09:30

Shiv,

typically, humans respond to direct aggression and hidden aggression differently. They also percieve differences in motives behind the actions, not just the act itself.

US does not have a territorial dispute with India, TSP does. TSP is occupying 1/3 of J&K, US is not.

TSP donated Indian land to PRC, US did not.

TSP has made direct and unambigous nuclear threats to annihilate Indian cities, US has not.

TSP wants India destroyed, because that is its raison d'etre for existence. TSP would rather destroy itself to see India destroyed. US is merely callous about India, its main focus is its own self interest and India is something it does not care about in any significant way. There is a tremendous difference in motivations. Admittedly, US being more powerful might end up hurting because a careless elephant can cause more damage than a careless rat.

TSP has formed *ALL* its policies, alliances, treaties, etc. with India in mind. US has formed all its policies keeping its own goals in mind, India actually plays a very small part in its global calculus.

India has fought 3 overt wars with TSP, with US it has fought none.

TSP has demolished many Gurudwaras & Temples, US has not.

TSP is sitting tight on lands that are clearly Hindu. Its major cities were Hindu cities: Lahore by Ram's son Luv, Peshawar was purushapur, etc. US is not sitting on Indian cities. (US is sitting on *american* Indian cities, but they are different people.)

TSP did ethnic cleansing and kicked out 12 million Hindus/Sikhs, killed 1 million, and raped about a lakh of Hindus/Sikhs. US did not.

There are still old women in Paki villages who were Hindu/Sikh when they were young girls. Mullahs have married them and named them Fatima, Sakina, Hamida etc. US has not done that.

TSP has sponsored a continous string of terrorist attacks on India. US has not.

Many millions of Indians lead a productive peaceful successful life in US. Only Indians living in TSP are D-company henchmen and used Khalsistani terrorists.

US invests in India, provides jobs to many millions by its high-tech industry. US set up many educational institutes in India. Some of the most prominent ones, as a matter of fact. TSP has not.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 May 2010 09:32

SSridhar wrote:
CRamS wrote: . . . but does anybody know if one of the conditions in the KL bill requiring TSP to crack down on LET has been diluted after TSP protested furiously?
The short answer is yes, it was.

Any link to this? How is the condition re-stated. Previously, as I recall, it called for an explicit crack down on LET. What is the language now. I'd be shocked if LET is completely removed.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 May 2010 09:37

Link emerges between Times Square bomb attempt and Pakistani militant group
A member of the Al Qaeda-allied Pakistani militant group Jaish-e-Muhammad is being held by authorities in Pakistan. That man spent time with Faisal Shahzad, the person charged in the failed bomb plot, although sources say that does not mean Jaish-e-Muhammad engineered the plot.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 3192.story

Reporting from Karachi, Pakistan
One of the men arrested in Pakistan this week in connection with the failed attempt to bomb Times Square is a member of Jaish-e-Muhammad, an Al Qaeda-allied Pakistani militant group, intelligence sources in the city of Karachi said Wednesday.

The revelation marks the first indication that a specific Pakistani militant group has been associated with the case of Faisal Shahzad, the 30-year-old Pakistani American charged in the failed bomb plot. But it does not necessarily mean that the organization engineered the plot or directed the suspect.

The intelligence sources requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media on the case.

» Don't miss a thing. Get breaking news alerts delivered to your inbox.

The man arrested Tuesday in Karachi, Sheik Mohammed Rehan, allegedly drove with Shahzad from Karachi to Peshawar on July 7, 2009, in a pickup truck, authorities said. They returned to Karachi July 22. It is not known why they went to Peshawar and whether they met with anyone there.

Peshawar is a large, mostly Pashtun city perched on the edge of Pakistan's tribal areas, where Al Qaeda, the Pakistani Taliban and other militant groups maintain strongholds. It is also where Shahzad's father and other relatives live.

Jaish-e-Muhammad emerged in the mid-1990s as a militant organization primarily focused on overthrowing Indian forces in the Indian-administered portion of Kashmir. Most of the violent attacks linked to the group have occurred in Kashmir, the disputed region claimed by India and Pakistan.

Over the years, though, the group has expanded its reach and has trained thousands of young men to fight U.S. and NATO forces battling the Taliban in Afghanistan. It was also linked to the 2002 kidnapping and murder of Wall Street Journal correspondent Daniel Pearl in Karachi.

Based principally in Punjab province, the heartland of Pakistan, the group has been designated as a terrorist organization by the U.S. government and was banned by Pakistan in 2002.

But experts believe Jaish-e-Muhammad still benefits from links with Pakistan's powerful government intelligence community. Some experts believe Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency facilitated the group's formation.

Authorities said they have not linked Jaish-e-Muhammad or any other militant group to two other men arrested Tuesday in Karachi in connection with the case. Pakistani officials have not explained why those men — Tauseef Ahmed, a cousin of Shahzad's, and Ahmed's father-in-law — were detained.

Pakistani authorities are continuing to investigate any potential link Shahzad might have with the Pakistani Taliban, the militant group based in the tribal areas that has beset the country with waves of suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks over the last two years.

In the criminal complaint filed in Shahzad's case, U.S. authorities said Shahzad acknowledged traveling to the Waziristan region in the tribal areas for training in bomb-making. The complaint did not specify whether Shahzad went to North or South Waziristan, but both regions have long been strongholds for the Pakistani Taliban.

Several young extremists from Western Europe accused recently of trying to carry out terrorist attacks in the West or planning such attacks have traveled beforehand to Pakistan's tribal areas for training with militants there.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 May 2010 09:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGzySF87j8
Taliban leader vows attacks on the US Al Jazeera

NY plot may be revenge for drone attacks: FM‎
DAWN.com - 1 hour ago
–Photo b AFP WASHINGTON: The foiled New York car bomb attack blamed on a Pakistani-American could be retaliation for US drone attacks on the Taliban

Muslims react to Times Square arrest WTNH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJiPBJM7n-Q

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 May 2010 09:57

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sumbul-al ... 63303.html

Sumbul Ali-KaramaliAuthor of "The Muslim Next Door: the Qur'an, the Media, and that Veil Thing"
Posted: May 4, 2010 05:51 PM
Times Square Car Bomb: an American Muslim View

I woke up this morning to the news that the alleged perpetrator of the NY car bomb was a Pakistani-American man. If he committed this crime -- a contemptible, cowardly one that I wholeheartedly condemn -- then I am glad he was arrested. But I couldn't help but wish he hadn't been Muslim.

As an American Muslim myself, whenever I hear of a potential terrorist attack, I cannot help falling into a repetitive litany of "Please let it not be Muslims who did this..." My prevalent feeling when I listen to the news these days is dread.

It's somewhat consoling to know that the man who first noticed the smoking Nissan Pathfinder and sought help is also Muslim, a Senegalese immigrant. I wonder if he was, as I am, deeply bewildered and infinitely saddened by the violence that's being associated with Islam.

I grew up Muslim in this country, with Muslim friends and non-Muslim friends, and there was very little difference between the two groups. We were all American. We all learned the pledge of allegiance and spoke it with patriotism (yes, it's true). I never felt any conflict between being Muslim and being American.

I know all religions have been, at one time or another, tools for those seeking power or notoriety or revenge. But I don't understand how people like the Christmas Day bomber or this recent car bomber can possibly justify their criminal actions on the basis of Islam. ("Jihad Jane" was clearly a nutcase before she ever "converted" to Islam.) Killing civilians, as well as terrorism, has always been unequivocally prohibited in Islamic law.

Violence in the name of Islam these days has many complex, varied causes, most of which have nothing to do with religion. But, living in a country where many people don't know any Muslims personally and see only those in the news, I don't have the luxury of sitting back and allowing people to think that terrorism is Islamic -- it's not. Only a fraction of a fraction of a percent of Muslims engage in terrorism.

Terrorists are not "jihadists," though they want you to believe they are. The U.S. government has stopped calling terrorists "jihadists," because so doing legitimizes the terrorists' violent behavior and makes it easier for them to recruit people. This is not political correctness - it's just smart strategy. We correctly don't describe the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacist groups as "Christian holy warriors," (even if they base their actions on the Bible); rather, we dismiss them as fringe extremists, and we don't legitimize their actions by accepting their religious characterization of them.

The Islamic doctrine of jihad means many things, including taking arms in self-defense, against an oppressor. Even the British take-over of India was not considered oppression enough to warrant jihad, according to prominent Muslim scholars, for the reason that the British were not actively preventing the practice of Islam. (Though if a foreign power were to take over the United States, I suspect Americans would not calmly submit.) And if, historically, some Muslims have interpreted "self-defense" more broadly to allow them to make war (as people of other religions have, as well), other Muslims have interpreted jihad to mean only nonviolent resistance. A modern example of the latter was Badshah Khan, a Pashtun who led unarmed, nonviolent protests against the British, basing his actions on the Qur'an.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 06 May 2010 10:03

abhishek_sharma wrote:
But James Hart, an Affinion spokesman, said “there’s a lot of résumé puffery in there” and that Mr. Shahzad had been “one rung up from entry level” when he left.

That is an understatement of astronomical proportions! I have been literally laughing my musharraf off reading his resume for the last hour or so. Reminds me of a candidate I interviewed recently for an mid-level accounting position who explained his "cashier at a gas station" work experience as: Automated hydrocarbon transfer technician; experiened in handling, storage and dispensing hazardous and flammable high-octane fluids...

I would call in this guy for a first, second and third interview (err, interrogation) just for the fun of it!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 May 2010 10:04

MICHAEL GOODWIN: U.S. Muslims Finally Take the Right Stand
By Michael Goodwin - FOXNews.com
A major Islamic group is denouncing terrorism and calling on Muslims to show loyalty to America, or get out.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/ ... -pakistan/

Events in the Times Square attempted bombing are unfolding in predictable fashion. The chief suspect is an educated, middle-class Muslim who reportedly confessed to being trained in Pakistan, and possible accomplices are being rounded up there.

There is, however, one big difference that separates this case from others. A major Islamic group is denouncing terrorism and calling on Muslims to show loyalty to America, or get out.

"Islam condemns terrorism unreservedly and totally," Naseem Mahdi said yesterday, adding it is "the duty and responsibility of all Muslims living in the US to be loyal to the flag and to be law-abiding citizens."

Mahdi is national vice president of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, which says it has tens of millions of followers around the world. Its mosques in the U.S. include several in the New York area, and it claims its 1921 start makes it the first American-Muslim organization.

It is certainly the first to say so clearly what many Americans have been waiting to hear. While it is true that terrorists are a small minority of Muslims, the majority has been too silent about this deadly scourge and too reluctant to help law enforcement.

Mahdi, who spoke at a press conference in Washington, told me he not only understands that view, he shares it. His pet peeve is that the common Muslim complaint about the media misses the big picture.

"Look, if these people are doing suicide bombings and they are doing it in the name of Islam, there is no reason to complain about the media," he said.

A Pakistani who lived in Europe and Canada, Mahdi also has choice words for Muslim immigrants who don't appreciate American freedom and opportunity. "My advice to them is to be bold and go live in the lands where their loyalties belong," he told me. "I know what I'm saying here, I can't say in Pakistan."

More power to him, and may many more echo his words.

Michael Goodwin is a New York Post columnist and Fox News contributor. Click here to continue reading his column.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 May 2010 10:13

This particular group - Ahmadi Muslims - are very active in my area (Southern California) and they have had this stance for a long time (long before 9/11). They frequently hold interfaith events and are very genuine, kind people. They even have a few guys at their mosque serving in the military. They pretty much have mosques around the whole US - I would urge anyone to visit them. They are very open and generous to guests. If all Muslims believed and practiced like them, I believe there would be no ill-feelings or negative associations with Islam.

Ohio

Beautiful words! We've been waiting almost 10 years to hear them!

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 at 11:43 AM

http://www.wfsb.com/news/23459751/detail.html

Group Worries About Bomb-Plot Backlash
Pakistani Group Condemns Attempted NYC Bombing
POSTED: 10:23 am EDT May 5, 2010
UPDATED: 10:43 am EDT May 5, 2010
SOUTH WINDSOR, Conn. -- The arrest of a naturalized U.S. citizen from Pakistan who resides in Connecticut in connection with a failed bomb attempt in Times Square has some worrying that their community could end up stigmatized for the actions of one man.
The Pakistani-American Association of Connecticut strongly condemned the attempted attack on Tuesday.
"My son called me late at night and said, 'Mommy, I have such bad news,' " said Nilofer Haider, of South Windsor.
Haider said she got a sinking feeling when she found out the suspect in the attempted car bombing had moved to Connecticut from Pakistan.
"It sort of lays a shadow on every Pakistani-American in the U.S. that someone who has adopted a citizenship in American has done something so bad," said Nilofer Haider's husband, Mateen.
The couple, active members of the Pakistani-American Association of Connecticut, or PAACT, echoed many in that community when they emphatically condemned the alleged actions of Faisal Shahzad.
"I would call him a terrorist, a murderer, a criminal," Mateen Haider said.
The Haiders said they would never call Shahzad a symbol of the nation they emigrated from more than 30 years ago.
"Pakistan stands for other things -- it stands for a beautiful country, it stands for very, very nice people; intelligent hardworking people if given a chance," Nilofer Haider said.
The couple, along with other members of PAACT, said they hope there's not backlash to their community after the attempted car bombing.
"Our children have grown up here, they were born here, and we do not want them steroetyped as you know, so-called potential risks to their own country," said Mateen Haider. "Everybody's affected in the United States because of this, and we feel terribly said."

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 May 2010 10:15

http://www.pakistanpatriot.com/?p=556

PAKPAC condemns NY attempted bomb plot
Posted on 04 May 2010
PAKPAC condemns NY attempted bomb plot
Washington DC: May 4th, 2010: The Pakistani American Public Affairs Committee (PAKPAC) condemns the Times Square attempted attempted bomb plot over the weekend. We appreciate the efforts of the New York Police Department as well as the FBI and vigilant NY residents in responding to this incident and saving hundreds of lives. PAKPAC is shocked and saddened to learn that the prime suspect is of Pakistani heritage. Though details of the case are still being uncovered and investigations are on going, we denounce this attempted attack on our soil and seek that this individual or any accomplice, to be tried and punished under American Judicial system. Whether this is an act of a lone individual or a group, it harms everyone and benefits no one. As a community, we should have zero tolerance for such acts as they damage and disrupt the way of life of Americans.
PAKPAC agrees with President Obama’s call for all citizens to be vigilant, it maybe be recalled that it was reporting by a vigilant NY resident that stopped this tragic incident from happening. PAKPAC and Pakistani Americans are committed to protect and defend the United States of America. We ask the Pakistani Americans and American Muslims to demonstrate an iron resolve against terrorism and to remain vigilant and continue to report anything that is illegal or suspicious to law enforcement agencies.
Janet Napolitano, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, stated on the “Today” show that it was premature to label any person or group as suspect. “Right now, every lead has to be pursued,” she said. “I caution against premature decisions one way or the other.” PAKPAC requests that the U.S. law enforcement agencies and American community to safeguard the civil rights of the thousands of law abiding Pakistani Americans and ensure that there is no backlash against the community, locally in Connecticut or across the nation. Pakistani American community seeks to work together with the Obama Administration and law enforcement agencies, and to provide them with resources to protect the safety of our nation and its citizens.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 May 2010 10:22

abhishek_sharma wrote:
So, Vice Air Marshal saab has disappeared.

abhishek_sharmaji,

AVM saab has been made to disappear.

Not every supreme court is as benevolent as our own.

Kayani must be having him skinned alive, after pumping him full of sodium thiopental, as we speak.