J & K news and discussion

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 18 Dec 2010 00:19

If Indian goberment tries guboing wrt it's claim on J&K to appease JuuAss or any other party, I'll lose all the faith and respect I have for the country. Why waste your emotions on a country which cares more about how terrorists and their supporters think than it's own interests. First it's Kashmir for Paki shIIt eaters, then Laddakh for Chinese, then Jammu as the buffer, Punjab for Khali-sthanis, Dilli for Inturnashunal Piss & Prosperity Organisation, North East for poor Bangladeshis, Tamilnadu for oppressed Lankan tamils, BIhar, Orissa for Maoists and so on.

I sincerely hope that you are wrong Menon saar.

well, me being from J&K has nothing to do with it. I feel as Indian as any one of you, just for the record.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Dec 2010 11:50

MHA to push for changes in AFSPA

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/MHA-t ... SPA/726267

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Dec 2010 12:06

So that the terrorists can be helped and Indian nation be harmed.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2010 18:24

Apparently, the recent visit of an IT team from India to Pakistan was a part of the Aman-ki-Asha tamasha. See this balderdash.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Dec 2010 18:28

BharataTalwar wrote:India is in a very dangerous position and its frustrating that nobody realises this.
All the worlds major powers have some beef with a certain group of Muslims. (Americans, Israelis, Russians, Chinese). All of them are currently trying to appease Muslims in an attempt to show that they are not at war with Islam and I feel all of them have their dirty eyes on Kashmir in an attempt to score brownie points at the expense of India. To them Kashmir is the magic key to their own problems and by assuming a pro-paki stance on Kashmir they will somehow pacify/gain paki support in their own troubled regions (Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Chechnya, Turkestan).

We should be very careful. On one hand we cant be seen supporting Muslims in any of those regions or we would lose allies and on the other hand these vultures all consider Kashmir fair play.

Rock and a hard place.

Perfecto. Absolutely inline with the events of the world. Good post. Welcome to BRF.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 18 Dec 2010 18:33

SSridhar wrote:Apparently, the recent visit of an IT team from India to Pakistan was a part of the Aman-ki-Asha tamasha. See this balderdash.

I had commented earlier on one particular part of the declaration which is also a part of Ganesh Natarajan's article:

For one, successful Pakistani product companies could provide the wind in our sails to offer new product-led solutions to our customers.

Ganesh actually wants to go to the global market and tell customers that this is a joint offering, the product (higher-value) part being led by Pakis and the services (lower- value) being led by Indians. I had some inferences to make regarding the quality of the Indian team, in my previous mail - and I stand by those inferences.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 19 Dec 2010 18:41

‘J&K interlocutors to get Rs 1.5 lakh a month’
http://www.zeenews.com/news675529.html

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 19 Dec 2010 23:59

BharataTalwar wrote:India is in a very dangerous position and its frustrating that nobody realises this.
All the worlds major powers have some beef with a certain group of Muslims. (Americans, Israelis, Russians, Chinese). All of them are currently trying to appease Muslims in an attempt to show that they are not at war with Islam and I feel all of them have their dirty eyes on Kashmir in an attempt to score brownie points at the expense of India. To them Kashmir is the magic key to their own problems and by assuming a pro-paki stance on Kashmir they will somehow pacify/gain paki support in their own troubled regions (Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Chechnya, Turkestan).

We should be very careful. On one hand we cant be seen supporting Muslims in any of those regions or we would lose allies and on the other hand these vultures all consider Kashmir fair play.

Rock and a hard place.

Most of us on BR do realize this, and have been saying so ever since post 9/11 tamasha started, and the TSP abomination was co-opted as a Munna.

But that said, if you see the current "Hindu terror" circus going on in India, India does not need anybody else undermine its nationhood.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 20 Dec 2010 07:09

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 128278.cms

JAMMU: Unlike their Kashmiri counterparts, the people of border region of Rajouri-Poonch are against the demand for 'azadi' and division of Jammu and Kashmir, the Centre-appointed interlocutors for the state said on Sunday.

"The aspirations of people here in this belt is totally different from that of Kashmir. They are against azadi and division of Jammu and Kashmir. We will raise their demands and suggestions before the government of India (GOI)," chief interlocutor Dileep Padgaonkar told reporters in Rajouri.

Ruling out the Kashmir-centric approach, he said that their exercise was not such at all.

"We believe in taking everybody, every section, every community and three regions onboard to know their demands, suggestions and aspirations to find out a durable political settlement to fulfill aspirations of all the people of Jammu and Kashmir," he said.

"Here the people are more inclined towards India. One reason may be that they (the people in the border district) have witnessed many wars and suffered. And they have also faced great hardships due to Pakistani firing. I think they are actually the sufferers of war," Ansari remarked.

Most of the delegations which met them were against the division of the state, he said.

"Some raised local grievances besides employment issues, discrimination with this border district. Some people whose relatives are living on border and whose relatives are living across the border demanded 'irrelevant borders' vis-a-vis PoK," Ansari stated.

Radha Kumar said that Rajouri, Poonch and Doda are most backward and underdeveloped areas of Jammu and Kashmir. People have demanded Development Council and we will recommend it to GOI, she said.

PrasadZ · Post by **PrasadZ** » 20 Dec 2010 19:43

MC Kash raps for Kashmir protest victims
The story reminds me of the Tamil rapper from Sri Lanka, MIA. Its a testament to Indian tolerance that MIA does her act in Britain while MC Kash can still rap inside India, even get Bollywood promotion for it!
We can accept the validity of his anger without accepting his demands. We can accept the need for reconciliation but need not accept another's perception of what it means.
JMT of course

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 21 Dec 2010 09:54

Folks, was just reading the book "Simply Khakhi" (by E.Rammohan IPS). In it he mentions an incident which should have happened in early 1990s. A Congress MLA from Bihar it seems decides to have a vacation in Kashmir, only to be kidnapped by terrorists from the Al Umar group. Off course the central govt. tries to presurrise the BSF to use their sources in BSF "G" Branch to work out a deal. The idea was to pay ransom and get the MLA out. The author (an IG in BSF) said nothing doing. As per the author it became an embarassment for the terrorists that even after 2 weeks no one was bothering about the kidnapping and they had to continue retaining this MLA (food, accomodation costs, ensuring that he does not run away etc.).

The author had to get to New Delhi for some other purpose, and in this time the J&K CID decided to settle for 5lakh as the ransom. Using the "G" Branch the pay offs were made, and the MLA was let off. Soon the same Al Umar jokers land up in the BSF net. One of them then started whining that they were only paid Rs.60,000/-. So using this case some one else (most likely the CID folks had siphoned of Rs. 4,40,000 neatly). But Al Umar desperadoes were totally frusturated as no one seems to be very seriously bothered about this MLA

.

Any idea who this MLA was? I was laughing my head out after reading this incident (especially the "no one bothers" situation), that even SHQ came and asked what is this all about. We both have seen such cases only in movies.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 21 Dec 2010 10:11

^^^^

I swear, I really laughed. We should investigate and find that celebrity Bihar MLA.

wig · Post by **wig** » 21 Dec 2010 10:34

Curfew after sectarian clashes

SRINAGAR, Dec 20: Authorities today imposed curfew in Sumbal town of Bandipora district in North Kashmir following sectarian clashes in which one person was injured and a house was damaged in arson, officials said here.

"Curfew has been imposed in Inderkoot and adjoining areas of Sumbal town following law and order problems since yesterday," the officials said.

Tension was brewing in Inderkoot, 40 kms from here, since yesterday after a youth belonging to a minority Muslim sect was severely injured in a thrashing allegedly by a youth from the majority sect following an altercation, they said.

Members of the minority sect went on the rampage and allegedly set fire to the kitchen of a house belonging to a member of the majority sect, the officials said adding curfew was imposed to bring the situation under control and prevent the clashes from spreading.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 21 Dec 2010 10:49

jamwal wrote:If Indian goberment tries guboing wrt it's claim on J&K to appease JuuAss or any other party, I'll lose all the faith and respect I have for the country. Why waste your emotions on a country which cares more about how terrorists and their supporters think than it's own interests. First it's Kashmir for Paki shIIt eaters, then Laddakh for Chinese, then Jammu as the buffer, Punjab for Khali-sthanis, Dilli for Inturnashunal Piss & Prosperity Organisation, North East for poor Bangladeshis, Tamilnadu for oppressed Lankan tamils, BIhar, Orissa for Maoists and so on.

I sincerely hope that you are wrong Menon saar.
well, me being from J&K has nothing to do with it. I feel as Indian as any one of you, just for the record.

+1 to that

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Dec 2010 13:11

Sachin wrote:Any idea who this MLA was? I was laughing my head out after reading this incident (especially the "no one bothers" situation), . . .

From here,

Case No.: 92
Date: 14.4.92
Place: Baramulla
Mohd. Latif Qureshi, Brother of the Governor of Bihar was abducted from Baramulla by a group of armed terrorists. He was however released on April 17 following private negotiations.

I am not too sure if this was the incident. Shri Rammohan's book speaks of 2 weeks while in the above it was three days.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 21 Dec 2010 13:23

Hey, this was Bihar B.N. (before Nitish). As such, the MLA must have been used to getting kidnapped all the time.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 21 Dec 2010 13:54

jamwal wrote:If Indian goberment tries guboing wrt it's claim on J&K ... I'll lose all the faith and respect I have for the country. Why waste your emotions on a country which cares more about how terrorists and their supporters think than it's own interests.

It's not the country that you ought have a problem with ... it is governments that come into power through unverifiable elections. You should put your shoulder to the wheel for transparent and verifiable democracy.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Dec 2010 13:56

vera_k wrote:Hey, this was Bihar B.N. (before Nitish). As such, the MLA must have been used to getting kidnapped all the time.

Hey you got it the other way.

Manish Jain · Post by **Manish Jain** » 21 Dec 2010 14:13

So as predicted, GOI just sat on events, winters arrived and stoners (stone pelters) retreated. With this came the revelations about money being paid to Geelani to stage these protests. Everything going on expected lines.

Cycle will repeat itself next time with some other type of stage managed events and GOI doing what it does best: Nothing. People are already bored of these jihadis and slowly J&K separatists too will find some other use of their time. Some times I wonder if people in home ministry even bother themselves with responding to J&K events unless its something serious. Govt can of course resolve J&K issue much sooner by ensuring development in non-separatist areas and going after separatists actively but why bother when same thing will happen anyways in a couple of decades time all by itself. Inaction is action as well. *tsk*

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Dec 2010 12:24

Pranav wrote:
jamwal wrote:If Indian goberment tries guboing wrt it's claim on J&K ... I'll lose all the faith and respect I have for the country. Why waste your emotions on a country which cares more about how terrorists and their supporters think than it's own interests.
It's not the country that you ought have a problem with ... it is governments that come into power through unverifiable elections. You should put your shoulder to the wheel for transparent and verifiable democracy.

Governments just don't drop of the sky. Government of a country is just an extract of it's people.

Look at Pakistan. Populated by confused Islamic fundamentalists, it's governments are as stupid and a pain in the ass to everybody as it's people.

USA. People in general clueless of the world beyond their own borders but extremely concerned about their own surroundings. Result ? Fairly good domestic policies but monumental blunders outside.

India. Easy going and passive. Always look for the easy way out. Government is quite similar. No action against criminals even when guilt is proved, highly corrupt. Even 3rd rate countries can humiliate and walk away without facing any consequences.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Dec 2010 12:29

Manish Jain wrote:So as predicted, GOI just sat on events, winters arrived and stoners (stone pelters) retreated. With this came the revelations about money being paid to Geelani to stage these protests. Everything going on expected lines.

At the risk of "I-Told-You-So",
That's what I said right when these "protests" started.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 22 Dec 2010 12:41

jamwal wrote: Governments just don't drop of the sky.

There are lots of dictatorial and non-representative regimes around the world. Anyway, getting OT.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 22 Dec 2010 12:59

SP leader Azam Khan questions Kashmir’s accession

Lucknow: Samajwadi Party leader Mohammad Azam Khan’s remarks on Kashmir have given birth to a new controversy in the state.

Azam Khan, who rejoined the SP recently, created headache for party chief Mulayam Singh after he questioned Kashmir’s accession to India.

In public comments made in Uttar Pradesh's Badaun district, Khan said the UPA government had only one Muslim Cabinet minister - Ghulam Nabi Azad.

The firebrand SP leader further said that Azad was from the Kashmir Valley and "not India", as the dispute over Kashmir being part of India was yet to be resolved.

"Only one Muslim minister is there in the (Union) Cabinet and that too not from India, but from Kashmir. That Kashmir, which is still controversial and we don't know whether that is part of India or not...," Khan was quoted as saying.

Following his controversial statement, political parties are demanding action against the SP leader.

The statement has irked the political parties with the BJP saying that Azam Khan was just trying to create confusion among the Muslims like Digvijay Singh did to garner minority vote bank.

On the other hand, the Congress demanded legal action against the SP leader from the Mayawati government and sought an explanation from party president Mulayam Singh Yadav.

Azam Khan is known for his critical political statements in the past and had even landed in problem for his remarks on the Ambedkar Memorial in Lucknow and calling Bharat Mata as demon.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Dec 2010 17:26

Azam Khan and many others will question if GoI does not want to take action hiding under various chanakyan approaches. After some time, the voice will reach a critical mass. Such dangerous tendencies must be nipped in the bud ruthlessly.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 22 Dec 2010 17:30

Already with ARoy saga and associated inaction, the sting in saying something so anti-national got diluted. It is only 'communalist forces' that are making noises against such expression of 'opinion'. A couple of more incidents and this will be like another Varanasi kind of attack, part of daily life. Pathetic!

RajeshG · Post by **RajeshG** » 23 Dec 2010 15:06

In the story posted by Wig from dailyexcelsior it says sectarian clashes. What does it mean ? Shia-Sunni , Deobandi/Barelvi or something else ?

A couple of stories mention Mr Abdul Rehman Kawoosa. Whos this fellow ?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 23 Dec 2010 17:16

When GoI and its minions are busy pandering to Muslim communalists, Who has the time to even react to what scums like DS, A.Suzzene Roy and Azam Khan bark, forget booking them under any CrPC.
GoI and Dynasty is more worried about "Hindu" Terrorists and surviving till next election.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Dec 2010 21:45

SSridhar wrote:Azam Khan and many others will question if GoI does not want to take action hiding under various chanakyan approaches. After some time, the voice will reach a critical mass. Such dangerous tendencies must be nipped in the bud ruthlessly.

We just entered into the tunnel

. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel

There will be a "Never Again!" movement all over Bharat in next 10-20 years

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 24 Dec 2010 06:24

RajeshG wrote:In the story posted by Wig from dailyexcelsior it says sectarian clashes. What does it mean ? Shia-Sunni , Deobandi/Barelvi or something else ?

Shia-Sunni. There's a long history of such violence......the worst was in 1684 when Sunni mobs burnt the Shia locality of Hassanabad in Srinagar.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Dec 2010 08:10

Letter in DT

Sir: I am writing in reference to Farrukh Khan Pitafi’s article ‘National Iinterest’ (Daily Times, December 23, 2010). Mr Pitafi refers to Operation Gulmarg and justifies the use of tribal lashkars as borne out of desperation because the then commander-in-chief (CNC) of the Pakistani army refused to carry out orders from Jinnah. However, it is only partially true that the British CNC was non-cooperative in the invasion of Jammu and Kashmir. The CNC, at that time, was General Frank Messervy and his deputy was General Douglas Gracey, who was the Chief of General Staff (CGS) as well. The use of tribal lashkars had been planned and indeed approved by the CNC as the strategy to capture the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir. Detailed instructions had been given on how each tribe from NWFP was required to contribute 1,000 lashkars each, and how each such lashkar unit would be provided with a major, a captain and 10 JCOs of the regular Pakistani army to command and ‘advise’ the units. Obviously, such arrangements could not have been made without the knowledge of General Messervy or General Gracey as the Pakistani army still had a heavy concentration of British officers. Thus, Operation Gulmarg was launched on October 22 when Muzzafarabad was attacked. The British non-cooperation came later when the Indian army troops were airlifted on October 27 to Srinagar following the accession. It was on the night of October 27 that Jinnah ordered General Gracey to move two brigades from Abbotabad and Sialkot into Jammu and Kashmir, an order that he was unwilling to execute without consulting the Supreme Commander, Field Marshal Auchinleck, as there was a stand down order for British participation in any conflict between the two dominions. It is quite clear therefore, that while the British CNC approved the tribal invasion, he was not willing to participate in a war that would have pitted British officers on either side against each other. It is also clear that lashkars were not drafted in desperation but as a strategy right from the beginning and only the Pakistani army was called in desperately when the lashkar attack went awry.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 24 Dec 2010 12:38

All but 50 J&K stone pelters released: Padgaonkar http://www.zeenews.com/news676276.html

Srinagar: The central interlocutors in Jammu and Kashmir Thursday said more political prisoners and youth arrested during the unrest would be released from jail in the coming days.

"Out of the 3,000 youth arrested for charges of stone pelting in the valley, all but 50 have already been released. The state government has told us more political prisoners against whom there are no serious charges would be released in the coming days," he told a media conference here.

Padgaonkar, accompanied by the other two interlocutors, Radha Kumar and MM Ansari, said: "Consultations were conducted along broad lines pertaining to issues of governance, development, conduct of the security forces, fate of the detainees involved in stone pelting, release of political prisoners against whom there are no serious charges, human rights etc., by us during our three visits so far to the state."

"The group also visited Langath town in Kupwara district to ascertain the views of the local people on issues of their interest and concern."

He clarified that some persons still wanted by the local police are not connected with the stone pelting incidents.

"We met a cross-section of people. While some spoke of abrogation of Article 370, others spoke of 'azadi', development and other solutions. We are ready to speak to any such group who are willing to speak to us," Padgaonkar said.

He added that the hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Geelani and the moderate Mirwaiz Umer Farooq needed to discuss their demands with the centre.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Dec 2010 13:13

Raghavendra wrote:All but 50 J&K stone pelters released: Padgaonkar http://www.zeenews.com/news676276.html

Srinagar: Snip..................

"We met a cross-section of people. While some spoke of abrogation of Article 370, others spoke of 'azadi', development and other solutions. We are ready to speak to any such group who are willing to speak to us," Padgaonkar said.
SNIP............

What does he mean by the bold segment. That people are in favour of Abrogation or against it.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Dec 2010 13:14

Some people are in favor of abrogation of article 370, others want "azaadi".

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Dec 2010 13:21

Hmmm..

Interesting, abrogation of 370 will bring the state inside the National main stream. So not all the KMs are lost cause. It will be educational to know which areas of the state support the abrogation of 370 and which ones want "Azadi".

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Dec 2010 13:25

It is not clear that KMs want abrogation of Article 370. The interlocutors also met other sections of the society.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Dec 2010 13:26

Don't get your hopes high yet. Article didn't explain whether people against article 370 were KMs or not.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 25 Dec 2010 04:40

BJP won’t allow autonomy, self-rule, azadi in J&K

JAMMU, Dec 24: The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), the principle opposition party of the country, today declared that it wouldn’t allow, at any cost, the grant of autonomy, self-rule or ‘azadi’ to Kashmir and fight tooth and nail any attempt to further dilute integration of the State with rest of India. The BJP warned a nation wide agitation against bid by the Central Government to grant more powers to Kashmir, which could further take away the State from India.

Addressing ‘Ekta Sankalap Rally’ at Mini Stadium, Parade Ground here, the BJP top brass including L K Advani, Nitin Gadkari, Sushma Swaraj and Arun Jaitley among others made it clear that the BJP stood for complete integration of Jammu and Kashmir with India and its accession with the country was final and irrevocable.

"Under no circumstances, the BJP would allow the Centre to grant autonomy, self-rule or azadi to Kashmir. If any attempt is made by the Government to grant any of the three proposals to Kashmir, we would go for a country wide agitation and thwart the Centre’s move’’, they said, adding that the BJP would strongly oppose any move by the Centre to change the status of J&K through a Parliamentary resolution.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 25 Dec 2010 08:00

Three cheers to that. I think of joining the BJP now.

There is a saying Ningalenne communistaaki (You all made me a communist). Similarly if things keep going difficult for the common man for being a normal secularvadi Yindu, Indian Musalman etc etc (A true Indian), he may say Ningalenne saffronvadiyaaki (You all made me a Saffronvadi - saffron terrorist for some). Mass voting for the BJP is going to ensue if the parties that claim to be secular act like terrorists and the so called saffron terrorists are really staunch secularvadis fighting for togetherness rather than divisivenss. Cannot belive it, but reality is that Congress is the far right, communists are the left and BJP is the center wing party in our country.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Dec 2010 10:44

After 14 Fridays, Mirwaiz allowed to give sermon

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/After ... mon/729183

In today’s sermon, the Mirwaiz claimed victory for himself, and said the government was mistaken to believe he would succumb to pressure and resist from discussing politics in the mosque by placing him under house arrest for three months.

However, instead of leading a procession through downtown Srinagar as he would do in the summer, Mirwaiz this time headed straight home. There were no stone-throwing incidents near the mosque.

“Under no circumstances will I remain silent,” Mirwaiz said. “Even if you send me to jail for years... I will continue to raise voice against human rights violations and killings of 112 youths.”

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Dec 2010 12:44

abhishek_sharma wrote:It is not clear that KMs want abrogation of Article 370. The interlocutors also met other sections of the society.

Here is what I would like to know. Recall, last election in the state, there was roughly 70% turnout, perhaps higher in some areas. After the elections, TSP, APHC, and other 5th columnists in India like Bakara, Noorani etc were claiming that the large turnout has nothing to do with resolving "Kashmir issue", rather, it was people expressing sentiments for better roads, jobs etc. How these worhties came to this conclusion, I don't know. But what would be interesting to learn is that among those who dream of "azzadi", what percentage actually voted in the last election? If is negligible, it would be reasonable to conclude that the high turnut was indeed an endorsement of India by those who voted, and the aforementioned claims by TSP sympathizers are bogus. However, if a substanial number of "azaadi" seekers voted in the last elction, then perhaps they indeed did not vote as Indian citizens.