Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2015 21:42

CRS, I am thinking of giving you a three month ban for your sanity and more importantly the Forum if you continue posing non-news from Paki and Paki pasand places.

How many admins have to tell you to chill and get a grip?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Oct 2015 21:49

RamanaGaru, come on boss what did I do so wrong to upset you. I only posted what I confronted at a Kashmir events. Is that so wrong? I can go back and delete all that if you want me to. I am truly mystified for attacks against me. Something is amiss.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Oct 2015 21:55

Falijee wrote:India did not allow Samjhota Express: Pakistan Railways
LAHORE (Staff Report) – The Samjhota Express could not leave for Delhi on Saturday and is expected not to leave again on Monday because of India’s refusal to allow its entry on the pretext of security.
Read more : India blocks Samjhauta Express at Wagah Border fearing attack
A spokesman of Pakistan Railways told media that a message received from Indian authorities has described that security inside India was the reason for cancellation of the train’s operation.
Meanwhile, Railways Minister Khawaja Saad Rafique has said that India did not received forty passengers of Samjhota Express in which few passengers were Indian citizens.
He said Indian citizens would be sent to India today through buses.
Train not allowed,music program cancelled; Baloch politician in India;robust response to LOC violations; slowly and surely a distinct shift in Paki policy is definitely underway; wonder what is next ?

the paki pissants actually summoned the Indian ambassador/deputy and gave him a démarche on the "stoppage" of the samjahuta exp.

@khalidrafiq138: Pakistan summons Indian diplomat over Samjhauta Express cancellation, 200 passengers stranded http://t.co/OF9lUHgKJl
Retweets 0 Followers 558

We should shut this monstrosity down as well as the bus. why are they in such a panic about the train??

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2015 21:56

CRS,
Nothing in particular. How about we avoid the Paki thread for say one month. Only reading and responding to posts.

My concern is you will get banned. Just preventive care.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Oct 2015 22:00

Ramana, I sure promise not to post. But I cannot believe this. What did I do or say anything to get my banned? Posting that I was a laughing stock at a Paki pansand event for presenting the truthful India PoV deserves a ban? And I posted that UnDy op-ed just to give an example of the type of SDRE crowd one os confronted with to which Anujan replied quite elaborately. If you want I can go and delete that or as an admin, please feel free to delete that and all of my posts. My apologies.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 11 Oct 2015 22:02

So vis-a-vis the autorickshaw picture, here is a blog post by a motorma (she is a sane/nice one so dont pile on her) about a visit to dilli 5 years back, most of the post is "ZOMG!! Women walk around in Dilli Normally!!"

http://naveenaqvi.com/2009/12/08/the-gallis-of-dilli/

What I was immediately struck by was that you see women everywhere. Women of all ages and classes are walking in the streets. They are out for a stroll in the evening. They are waiting for the bus. Women from their fifties to their twenties can be seen driving motorcycles and scooters. They are shopkeepers, bankers – they’re even construction workers! {So now you know how many women autorickshaw drivers there are in Al-Bakistan}

What I found was that there was not just one, but several booklets that are published every week so you can keep track of what’s going on in this sprawling city. The list of cultural activities, varying from Dance, Theatre to Music was several pages long and the options were exciting enough to make a decision difficult. Since dance performances are rare in Karachi, I chose a Kathak dance recital. {So much for "We are all culturally similar onlee"}

“The performance begins at 6:30. There’s plenty of time. It’s up to you really what you would like to do.”

I couldn’t believe it. I went in and sat down. Soon people started arriving. There was no fanfare, no photo opportunities. {Motorma expected a photo op and splashing it in glamor pages.} They quietly came in and seated themselves. Once again, I found it remarkable that at least eighty percent of the audience was women. Single women, women in groups. There were women in their teens dressed in jeans and sneakers. Women with long grey hair. Women of all ages. Women in silk saris. Women in worn cotton saris who could have been one of the construction workers I had seen earlier in the day. This too was a unique sight, this remnant of socialism. {Nope, it is not a remnant of socialism. It is a an absence of TFTA-ness}

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Oct 2015 22:48

RajeshA wrote:Anujan ji,

I very much commend your approach, however it is extremely difficult for jingo abduls regardless of how eloquent he may be to keep his urges and instincts under control and start doing subtle psychotherapy. That control is a skill only the rare jingo can muster.

But without self-control, it is self-indulgence, and the jingo will almost inevitably score self-goals. The good jingo should be willing to put up with the discomfort of some suppressed feelings and statements for the greater cause. One will never convince the panel or whatever the people on the stage are; but the goal is to reach the audience. If Anujan's self-control is the exception rather than the rule, then jingos have a big problem. (sorry, it is off-topic on this thread, but this "how to be an effective jingo" is perhaps an essential thread for somewhere on BRF).

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Oct 2015 22:55

^^+1001

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 11 Oct 2015 23:08

There was a QA session by Doval-ji in which some SDRE stood up and asked (paraphrased) "Do you think violence is justified in the pursuit of state's objectives", for which Shri Doval answered "Absolutely, There is no doubt in the mind. Absolutely yes!"

This caused a mild consternation among the assembled SDREs. "How can you say that?"

Someone with the stature of Doval-ji can give such authoritative answers.

The rest of us SDREs if asked such questions have to reply with a question "Do you support the use of curfew, tear gas, lathi charge and if that doesnt work, firing to quell a riot? Do you support the arrest, jailing and possible severe sentence to the perpetrators? If the answer is yes, then you already support the use of violence to support the objectives of the state and to discharge the duties of the government". There needs to be a certain level of Chunkian-ness to answer an obviously loaded question. If we answer "Yes I support violence to achieve objectives of the state", the next question would be "Why do you hate Gandhi?". Instead you should answer "Do you support use of violence to quell communal riots, hain ji?" if they disagree with you, they become communal that they so hate. If they agree with you, we have reached a common ground

Anyway, getting too OT for this dhaaga.

Anyone watching with popcorn at the By-Elections in Al-Bakistan? Apparently Kaptaan sahib had declared it as a referendum against Badmash and Badmash's candidate is winning and Kaptaan is losing

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/ ... 5Y20151011

Pakistanis began voting on Sunday in a closely contested by-election seen as a referendum on Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's rule after he swept to power in 2013 elections.

The race for the parliamentary seat in Punjab, Pakistan's richest province and Sharif's power base, pits the ruling Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PMLN) party against the opposition Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI).

Last year PTI's leader, cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan, led street protests in the capital for months, alleging rigging in the 2013 polls.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 11 Oct 2015 23:15

As someone has mentioned, questions should have IEDs within.

Appear reasonable and solicitous.

How can India help Pakistan be at peace with itself?

Can Pakistan's Kashmir goals help the Balochis attain their aspirations?

As an Indian, I hope Pakistan can join other Asian peoples in making rapid strides in economic growth, health indices and education. I believe India owes a debt, how can India help?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 11 Oct 2015 23:16

And, always work in East Pakistan, never call it Bangladesh.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 11 Oct 2015 23:19

Shaktimaan wrote:On another note, Indian Railways is close to my heart. Therefore out of jingoism I follow news about Pakistan Railways also. In the period from 2009-2014, there was nothing but negative news about Pak Rail. The entire system had collapsed, their Chinese made engines were not working, they had less than 2 dozen working engines etc and terrorists would blow up tracks on a monthly basis. Almost no trains were running.

Since 2014, they have been putting out positive news which I find very hard to believe. They are posting claims of a turnaround, new trains etc. What's the source of this? Turning around any state owned company like Railways will take not less than a decade even for a competent government. Where can one get the real picture?

Shatiman Ji :

1. PR procured 98 Diesel Locomotives from China in the early par of this Century - possibly 2002 or 2003. The faults encountered were :
a) The Locomotives were too wide. As such Hajaams were employed by the Thousands to "shave" the Platforms.
b) The Locomotives suffered cracking of the Bogie Frames as the Locomotives weighed over 22 Tonnes whereas the Track for the most part of the PR system were for up to 18 Tonnes.
c) Due to paucity of Funds PR did not change the Lubrication Oil at recommended Intervals. When they did change it was with Old used Lubes. Thus the Prime Mover tended to "seize up".

With the latest batch of Locomotives

Locomotives of PR :
Locomotives of Pakistan Railways : http://www.pakistanrail.com/locotech/index.htm

Old Locomotives : http://www.pakistanrail.com/locotech/pages/GEU20.htm

Latest Chinese Locomotives : 1. https://youtu.be/l9hEXivOIz4?t=37

11. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/31/u9a3u5eh.jpg

111. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/31/tedumebe.jpg

You will find that the Latest New Locomotives are most probably 20-25 Year Old Locomotives which have been "refurbished"

Now the latest Locomotives have been provided with a "Services Contract" whereby PR has paid for the Spare Parts and Wages and Upkeep of the Chinese "Locomotive Engineers"

Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 11 Oct 2015 23:30

Vote count underway in Lahore's NA-122

11:00pm: According to latest unofficial vote count Ayaz Sadiq has received 68,521 votes while Aleem Khan could grab 64,510 votes.

Breaking Results

Cheers

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Oct 2015 00:06

Falijee wrote: Train not allowed,music program cancelled; Baloch politician in India;robust response to LOC violations; slowly and surely a distinct shift in Paki policy is definitely underway; wonder what is next ?

That is the million "new countries in south asia" question.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Oct 2015 00:22

sanjaykumar wrote:As someone has mentioned, questions should have IEDs within.

Unfortunately I cannot be Anujan (generic type) nor CRS type. I simply avoid going to these tamashas. I simply would not have an upper hand in a group of people who are breathing, teaching, pontificating on political science, governance, journalism, or whatever the new post-post-post-...modern philosophical gobbledgook in their ivoy tower departments. One can always read or see the video later on to come to know what transpired. Then sit back, do the background research, and possibly reach out to knock them on the head in SM.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 12 Oct 2015 01:33

Basically you have to devise a "have you stopped beating ur wife" question and ask in a calm manner and follow up with more IEDs.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Oct 2015 01:57

A_Gupta wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Anujan ji,

I very much commend your approach, however it is extremely difficult for jingo abduls regardless of how eloquent he may be to keep his urges and instincts under control and start doing subtle psychotherapy. That control is a skill only the rare jingo can muster.
But without self-control, it is self-indulgence, and the jingo will almost inevitably score self-goals. The good jingo should be willing to put up with the discomfort of some suppressed feelings and statements for the greater cause. One will never convince the panel or whatever the people on the stage are; but the goal is to reach the audience. If Anujan's self-control is the exception rather than the rule, then jingos have a big problem. (sorry, it is off-topic on this thread, but this "how to be an effective jingo" is perhaps an essential thread for somewhere on BRF).

I do agree with you completely. I just wanted to say that it is quite challenging.

I think there is a big difference in analysis of the issues and building a communication narrative around that insight keeping the psyche of the target audience in mind.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Oct 2015 02:30

A_Gupta wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Anujan ji,

I very much commend your approach, however it is extremely difficult for jingo abduls regardless of how eloquent he may be to keep his urges and instincts under control and start doing subtle psychotherapy. That control is a skill only the rare jingo can muster.
But without self-control, it is self-indulgence, and the jingo will almost inevitably score self-goals. The good jingo should be willing to put up with the discomfort of some suppressed feelings and statements for the greater cause. One will never convince the panel or whatever the people on the stage are; but the goal is to reach the audience. If Anujan's self-control is the exception rather than the rule, then jingos have a big problem. (sorry, it is off-topic on this thread, but this "how to be an effective jingo" is perhaps an essential thread for somewhere on BRF).

I wish all the forum members of past who left or were banned had understood this.
What matters in modern world aka Kaliyuga is to be left standing.

And job of moderator is to gentle nudge folks when needed.
Admin will ban you!!!

MB tells you this also.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 12 Oct 2015 02:47

There needs to be developed a script or more sophistacatedly, an algorithm, to bury Pakis in the grave they dig for others. The talking points are all too familiar. They can be easily anticipated and rehearsed for rebuttal.

Human rights will neccesitate a pathway through East Pakistan's lessons to Baluchistan's continuing insurrections. Kashmir will lead to POK and the preconditionalities of the UNSC resolutions requiring Paki withdrawal, as also protests in Balwaristan. Religious discord in India will perforce provide an opening to the Shia killings in Pakistan. Poverty in India will lead to an examination of starvation deaths in Sindh. Soft lamentations will follow for karo kari, child abuse, blasphemy accustations in Pakistan. Mention of riots will provide scope for concern for Hindu, Christian, Sikh and Muslim lives in Pakistan.

Rightwing political leaders in India will lead to an examination of political and elite oligarchies in Pakistan and South American type banana republics. Indian defence spending likewise needs to be seen in the perspective of budgetary monopolies in Pakistan.

Speak with confidence and generally start with taking Pakistan out of the Indian subcontinental context and more into the global perspective of failing and unstable states. Remember the whites are more frightened of Pakistan than Indians will ever be.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 12 Oct 2015 02:54

Anujan wrote:So vis-a-vis the autorickshaw picture, here is a blog post by a motorma (she is a sane/nice one so dont pile on her) about a visit to dilli 5 years back, most of the post is "ZOMG!! Women walk around in Dilli Normally!!"

http://naveenaqvi.com/2009/12/08/the-gallis-of-dilli/

What I was immediately struck by was that you see women everywhere. Women of all ages and classes are walking in the streets. They are out for a stroll in the evening. They are waiting for the bus. Women from their fifties to their twenties can be seen driving motorcycles and scooters. They are shopkeepers, bankers – they’re even construction workers! {So now you know how many women autorickshaw drivers there are in Al-Bakistan}

What I found was that there was not just one, but several booklets that are published every week so you can keep track of what’s going on in this sprawling city. The list of cultural activities, varying from Dance, Theatre to Music was several pages long and the options were exciting enough to make a decision difficult. Since dance performances are rare in Karachi, I chose a Kathak dance recital. {So much for "We are all culturally similar onlee"}

“The performance begins at 6:30. There’s plenty of time. It’s up to you really what you would like to do.”

I couldn’t believe it. I went in and sat down. Soon people started arriving. There was no fanfare, no photo opportunities. {Motorma expected a photo op and splashing it in glamor pages.} They quietly came in and seated themselves. Once again, I found it remarkable that at least eighty percent of the audience was women. Single women, women in groups. There were women in their teens dressed in jeans and sneakers. Women with long grey hair. Women of all ages. Women in silk saris. Women in worn cotton saris who could have been one of the construction workers I had seen earlier in the day. This too was a unique sight, this remnant of socialism. {Nope, it is not a remnant of socialism. It is a an absence of TFTA-ness}

Here is another one.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1136597/6-surp ... i-in-india

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 12 Oct 2015 03:36

In a different but related context, work in the contributions of eminent Indians and Pakistanis to the host communities. I usually get the point across very well, just ensure that you take ownership of the Indians as expectedly repaying the host societies for the opportunities given Indians and leave the Pakistanis to take ownership of their heroes.

Sunder Pichai, Satya Nadella, Indra Nooyi, Shantanu Narayen, Venkatraman Ramakrishnan, etc etc versus Faisal Shahzad, Mohammad Sadique Khan, Shahzad Tanveer, Haseeb Hussain.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 12 Oct 2015 04:44

sher has won.. Wonder what Captan will do now

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Oct 2015 06:11

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Prepared to have your mind boggled!

This is World Bank Data.
Here is the page:
http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERN ... 83,00.html

What is mind-boggling?
According to the World Bank, remittances from Pakistan to India in 2014 amounted to US $ 4.697 billion.
(i.e., by my estimate that is approximately 2% of Pakistan's GDP). In comparison remittances from Oman to India amounted to US $3.471 billion. Remittances from India to Pakistan amounted to US $2.061 billion.

All the data they have
2014 Pakistan-to-India: $4.697 billion, India-to-Pakistan: $2.061 billion
2013 Pakistan-to-India: $4.669 billion, India-to-Pakistan: $1.767 billion
2012 Pakistan-to-India: 0 (yes, zero), India-to-Pakistan: $2.189 billion
2011 Pakistan-to-India: 0, India-to-Pakistan: $1.916 billion
2010 Pakistan-to-India: 0, India-to-Pakistan: $1.505 billion

---
The most reasonable explanation is that the World Bank employed its first Pakistani employee in this remittances estimating division before the 2013 report was released; and the World Bank data is therefore 400% reliable.

The second explanation that this is payment for exports from India masquerading as remittances to families.

The third explanation is that this is capital flight from Pakistan disguised as remittances to families.

PS:
A fourth explanation is that Indians in the Gulf started using a Pakistani hawala channel to send remittances to India, so money goes Gulf-->Pakistan-->India. If that is the case, Pakistan's incoming money should show a $4.7 billion jump in 2013 as well. Remittances to Pakistan totaled $14.010 billion in 2012, and $14.626 billion in 2013, and so this incoming cannot be marked as "remittances", it has to be in some other account.

PPS: A fifth explanation to me is this is the inflowing fake Indian currency manufactured in Pakistan.
@A_Gupta- The fourth could be a possible answer. Will have to check it out, but what I learned from a few Paki employees that they are exempt from a lot of the remittance charges about USD 4 per remittance that Indians have to pay to send money back. Therefore it could well be that some of the money changers/ exchanges. banks are routing money in 2 stages to save costs. Would be interesting to find what are the remittance charges from Pakistan to India. Let me see if I can dig anything up.

P.P.S. How can FICN be sent as remittance? Don't understand it fully if someone could elucidate.

The FICN route for remittances is very clever and simple scheme of money laundering. FICN is deposited in various accounts. The banks may slip up in detection or there is collusion with bank officials that FICN gets credited to account holders. When enough money has accumulated, there is a transfer to Pakistan. The other mode is that FICNs are circulated in India through a huge network. Right at the top, there is an exchange rate fixed such as 2FICN = 1 ICN etc and the ICN is paid immediately to the top guy upon getting the FICN. The top guy then sends it back to Pakistan through regular banking channels.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Oct 2015 06:39

Abhay_S wrote:
Anujan wrote:So vis-a-vis the autorickshaw picture, here is a blog post by a motorma (she is a sane/nice one so dont pile on her) about a visit to dilli 5 years back, most of the post is "ZOMG!! Women walk around in Dilli Normally!!"

http://naveenaqvi.com/2009/12/08/the-gallis-of-dilli/
Here is another one.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1136597/6-surp ... i-in-india

Several things about Pakistan (and how Pakistanis make other view them) should become clear from these articles
1. Women are not seen much in public spaces, driving vehicles or as construction workers. Perhaps not even as salesgirls and petrol pump assistants.
2. What Christine Fair points out is valid - she says that Pakistanis subject visitors (from India) to a "selection bias". That is visitors are taken to private zones in Pakistan where they can see upper class women driving pink autorickshaws to shows of Vagina Monologues. These Indians come back gushing about Pakistan and its freedoms and beauty and how Pakistanis are misunderstood by the Khaki chaddi sanghis

Somehow, for all that Indians speak about "soft power" - as a nation we have not understood the use of soft power to tell lies. We refer to soft power in telling the truth in general. If people are shitting in the open we do hide it and do not praise it (we may curse it though). But we tend to praise other achievements which are genuine - eg space program etc.

The flip side of soft power is to use propaganda to hide warts and pretend that a nation is what it is not. Amazingly - the US, which would seem to be the nation that perhaps least needs to use such pretence does it too. Pakistanis are past masters - they are constantly lying to themselves and to each other and we Indians who have never learned to pretend to be what we are not are fooled outright by Pakistanis.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Oct 2015 06:57

That autorickshaw looks brand new. No mud even on the tires. Should we believe that there are no kaccha roads in Pakistan?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Oct 2015 07:06

indian visitors are usually guests of well off people there and tend to see the nice parts of lahore and islamabad which are similar to posh delhi and chandigarh colonies are nearest analogue in terms of upkeep and vegetation and culture.

one thing pak has been more strict in enforcing is they do not allow any urban slum/low income pocket to remain or seep up in their elite areas.
even in the nooks and corners of posh delhi areas, there would be remnants of old villages which are now full of shops and cheaper rental rooms...like masjid moth right next to south extt. so in general their posh areas have less poorer people roaming around and look cleaner and more homogenous.

partha · Post by **partha** » 12 Oct 2015 07:23

Singha wrote:one thing pak has been more strict in enforcing is they do not allow any urban slum/low income pocket to remain or seep up in their elite areas.

Yeah, that article should have been titled "6 surprises that greets an elite Pakistani in India". I am sure he only visits restaurants in elite parts of Lahore / Isloo where there are proper security checks and hence he finds it surprising that there are no security checks in public in India (or may be he is surprised it is that way even after Pakistan has put in so much efforts into sponsoring terrorism). Those western standard, secure restaurants are where he takes his phoren friends. If he visits restaurants in aam aadmi areas of Lahore or Isloo, he will be equally surprised by lack of security checks.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Oct 2015 07:37

only 4-5* hotels frequented by furriners have x-ray and security checks in india. by implication visiting their inhouse restaurant as a walk-in also means security checks.

no other independent restaurant has a security check i know of in india.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 12 Oct 2015 08:13

Singha wrote:indian visitors are usually guests of well off people there and tend to see the nice parts of lahore and islamabad which are similar to posh delhi and chandigarh colonies are nearest analogue in terms of upkeep and vegetation and culture.

one thing pak has been more strict in enforcing is they do not allow any urban slum/low income pocket to remain or seep up in their elite areas.
even in the nooks and corners of posh delhi areas, there would be remnants of old villages which are now full of shops and cheaper rental rooms...like masjid moth right next to south extt. so in general their posh areas have less poorer people roaming around and look cleaner and more homogenous.

They saying in Pakistan is ' Islamabad se bahar nikaltey hi asli Pakistan shuroo ho jata hai'.

'Kuch aur Dino ke baad bahar Jana nahi padega' - Hasan Nisar

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 12 Oct 2015 10:38

SSridhar
Can you explain in detail how this is done?
The FICN route for remittances is very clever and simple scheme of money laundering. FICN is deposited in various accounts. The banks may slip up in detection or there is collusion with bank officials that FICN gets credited to account holders. When enough money has accumulated, there is a transfer to Pakistan. The other mode is that FICNs are circulated in India through a huge network. Right at the top, there is an exchange rate fixed such as 2FICN = 1 ICN etc and the ICN is paid immediately to the top guy upon getting the FICN. The top guy then sends it back to Pakistan through regular banking channels.
What is FCIN?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 12 Oct 2015 10:39

Sudheendra Kulkarni's face blackened at Kasuri's book launch.
It appears those who did this were professional smearers - looks like to be a very neat job. I mean even the back of his head has the same finish as the front. ( Kulkarni offered no resistance it seems).
(Please, anyone, to get the contact details - I need to repaint me house. )

And Kulkarni promptly appeared with the immaculate finish in the presser with Kasuri.

Perfect demonstration of staged intolerance.

Sri Kejriwal must be a worried man - new kid on the block.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 12 Oct 2015 10:48

In any event, this sort of arbitrary acts of violence or assault cannot be allowed by goonda types. It can easily lead to a rampant nonsense.

It is another matter that Kulkarni is an ass for participating or acquiescing in this stupid effort to make money for Kasuri. There are other legal ways as well as exclusion possibilities. Boycott the buggers who facilitate this. Money talks.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 12 Oct 2015 10:54

One of the benefits of having a strong law enforcement is that sooner or later, the evidence of who did it would come up. If its false flag, those morons will be locked up. If its someone taking the path of violence (thereby generating martyrs), they will be locked up as well.

While it would lock up psychos, the real benefit would be in making it very expensive to conduct a false flag, and also once the false flaggers are exposed, their causes looses credibility.... instantly.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 12 Oct 2015 11:01

Smearing a little ink is not violence, it is just a bit of out of season holi. This guy is sellout A-hole and speaks Paki language.

partha · Post by **partha** » 12 Oct 2015 11:02

The ink / paint does look neatly smeared on his face leading to suspicion of a publicity stunt but then Shiv Sena has not (yet) issued a denial. Anyway Kasuri got what he wanted - publicity for the book and has exploited this opportunity to push Paki propaganda in press conference. This incident may also create some sympathy for Paki point of view. If this was done by Shiv Sena they truly lack any sort of tactical skills. Is maar tod always the answer to everything? A silent protest with families affected by all terror incidents in Mumbai or even simply ignoring the book launch would have been more effective.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 12 Oct 2015 11:16

Dipanker wrote:Smearing a little ink is not violence, it is just a bit of out of season holi. This guy is sellout A-hole and speaks Paki language.

Did not expect this from you

My point is: He will now be a martyr. So even if he deserved it, it ended up doing more harm than good.

partha · Post by **partha** » 12 Oct 2015 11:20

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 319_1.html

Shekhar Gupta: The canary and the deep state
Why Khurshid Kasuri may have his story-telling right but politics wrong

If I may add, somewhat ungratefully and impolitely, given that Mr Kasuri is a friend, a well-meaning intellectual and as generous with time as hospitality - I ate at the wonderful Kasuri dining table on my first visit to Pakistan as a reporter in 1985 - it is also simplistic, and in parts hasty and irresponsible.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 12 Oct 2015 11:31

I say that because the India-Pakistan relationship, defined as it is by Kashmir, is impossible to settle in the five-year tenure of one government in India, even if it has a full majority (unlike UPA-I). And definitely not under one more military dictator in Pakistan whose voice and commitments will not only cease to count the day he loses power, through assassination, exile or imprisonment, as Pakistani dictators' history tells us, but will be rejected and reversed. It's an aside but an important one that Pervez Musharraf affirmed this pattern almost fully, having been exiled and imprisoned (house arrest) and nearly assassinated by his own terrorists.

How seriously will you take a general who launched the Kargil operation behind the back of his peace-making prime minister, presuming India would beg for peace rather than fight back? Or a politician, in his later avatar, who would return from exile solely convinced by the number of "likes" on his Facebook page that his country lovingly, longingly, desperately wanted him back? If he hasn't yet faced trial for high treason, it is only because he is protected institutionally by the army and also personally by General Raheel Sharif, whose 1971 war-hero brother, Major Shabbir Sharif (Nishan-e-Haider, Pakistan's PVC equivalent, posthumous), was his batchmate.

My central disagreement with Mr Kasuri is in the implied claim that he somehow determined policy, or if it mattered whether he was a hawk or a dove. Pakistani military dictators have always employed suave, usually Western-educated foreign ministers or senior diplomats to further their top-down agenda. The trend was set by General Ayub employing Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. Some usual suspects, Abdul Sattar, Sartaj Aziz and even Mr Kasuri, featured often - representing no change but continuity in policy defined and fine-tuned by the army and the larger intelligence and bureaucratic establishment around it.

So strong is this institutional hold that it defies not just elected prime ministers, whether a Bhutto or a Nawaz Sharif, but also chiefs if they start thinking differently. Mr Kasuri suggests that he was moving ahead on a Kashmir settlement with India without a change in borders on Pervez Musharraf's mandate, and that the army was fully on board. He talks in detail about meetings where President Musharraf's army chief, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, ISI chief Shuja Pasha and other key commanders were present. But a close look at the time-lines tells you that exactly as the back-channel negotiations were in their most crucial stage, "somebody" was planning the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai.

If you wish to believe that it was purely a rogue operation with the army and the ISI not being in control, count me out of it. When Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Nawaz Sharif were making peace, Pervez Musharraf was plotting Kargil. As former RAW chief Anand Verma wrote in a brilliant obit on his counterpart Lt-Gen Hamid Gul in The Hindu ('When Hamid Gul offered India peace', August 28, 2015), they were carrying out substantive, path-breaking back-channel talks mandated by Rajiv Gandhi and Zia-ul-Haq in the late '80s. Note that is when President Zia's mysterious assassination took place, Lt-Gen Gul went back on his word, the establishment escalated fighting in Afghanistan, revived terror in Indian Punjab - the third phase of Punjab terror, after Blue Star (June '84) and Black Thunder (May '88), was the most pronouncedly Khalistani and ISI-supported. Fortunately it was the last. It was also in 1989, the year after President Zia's still unexplained death, that Kashmir trouble was revived. So if, in 2008, 26/11 was planned just when a "breakthrough" was claimed by Pakistan's key negotiator, you can join the dots any which way. For me, following the Ian Fleming principle (thrice is enemy action), three points make a straight line.

In all the talk over Mr Kasuri's "revelations", some real nuggets in the book have been lost. A most fun, and significant, one is the belligerent Pervez Musharraf speech at the UNGA in 2005, in the peak years of detente. Mr Kasuri admits he was taken as much by surprise as the Indian delegation was rattled. Was General Musharraf fleeing from this honeymoon?

Mr Kasuri says he wasn't, he was simply reading someone else's script. He says the speech was written by Munir Akram, a typically suave and angry Pakistani diplomat (he had once called India the sick man of Asia, and Salman Khurshid, then MoS External Affairs, a rented Muslim; his younger brother, Zamir Akram, was a very popular diplomat in Delhi and my neighbour). Munir Akram was then Pakistan's permanent representative to the UN. You will have to suspend disbelief, but Mr Kasuri says the script was entirely Mr Akram's; and neither he, as foreign minister, nor Gen Musharraf or any of their aides had had time to vet it because of other preoccupations. Gen Musharraf, therefore, only figured where the speech was taking him as he read it on the podium.

Several lessons can be drawn from it. First of all, we laughed unfairly at our own S M Krishna for "absent-mindedly" picking up and starting to read his Portuguese counterpart's speech. Second, that Gen Musharraf and his aides were lazy, casual, if not incompetent. Third, that even when there was a military strongman at the top, the levers of power, the hand that wrote the India-policy script, responded to some other power-that-be. If it wasn't so, Munir Akram would have been immediately fired and called to account. If he was, Mr Kasuri doesn't tell us.

Any truth-telling on India-Pakistan relations is valuable, even if it is a view from one side, or one individual's side. To that extent, Mr Kasuri has added to our knowledge and understanding, in what may indeed be better renamed the Autobiography of a Singing, Simplistic Canary. But for many of us, it will reaffirm some cynical old beliefs, rather than bring any reassurance of change.

Shekhar Guptas article referenced by parthaji in the earlier post.

SSridharji,have edited my post.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 12 Oct 2015 12:12

Do they not have scooters is crapland? Why the paki keeps calling scooter/Scooty as motorbike

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 12 Oct 2015 12:15

I think its BJP govt in the wrong for allowing Pak propaganda to go on by giving visas and other permissions. And some senior bjp veterans seem to be enthusiastic participants in these events. The only one to be blamed in this entire event is BJP. And it goes against its own earlier stand of opposing such events when not in power.