Pashtun Civil War

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
vishnua
BRFite
Posts: 221
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 12:31

Post by vishnua »

Johann wrote:
vishnua wrote:please read charle wilson's war before comparing present situation to that of to 80's.

Afghans were pretty much done by 83 i mean willing to accept defeat and surrender but massa upped the antenna with cash and supplies. KSA was matching the donations wrt to cash.
None of the Afghan groups fighting at the time were willing to surrender - Massoud's organisation for example survived four massive Soviet campaigns in the Panjsher by that point, despite Pakistani attempts to choke him off - there was only a thin stream of supplies from European and American sources.

quote]

Did you actaully read the book ? I don't remember the author but can get that.

Well.. Let us see no of dead on the afghan side.

The author clearly says the mood was titling towards what i said .

If you won't survuve then how can think defeat?

Afghans then had pak to go but this time it is not the same if they (faithful)want to go afghan side provided they are being choked from pak side.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Steady progress...
Militants capture Amir Muqam’s hometown

By Mushtaq Yusufzai & Musa Khankhel

PESHAWAR/MINGORA: Undeterred by continuous attacks and shelling of security forces on their suspected hideouts and positions, militants in turbulent Shangla district continued their advance and entered on Friday the hometown of provincial president Pakistan Muslim League-Q Engineer Amir Muqam.

General Maj-Gen Waheed Arshad told The News that gunship helicopters and artillery continued targeting militants’ positions in Swat’s Kooza Bandai and Alpuri, the district headquarters of Shangla on Friday. He, however, said there were no details about losses suffered by the militants.

Six persons, including three women, sustained injuries when gunship helicopters targeted residential buildings in Kooza Bandai and Charbagh. The injured were identified as Khushboo, Munawwar Sher, Robeena, Farhad Ali, Shaista and Rehana. They have been shifted to a Saidu Sharif Hospital.

Militants' spokesman Sirajuddin called The News and claimed they had captured Puran subdivision and later handed it over to a commission of local pro-Taliban Ulema and elders on the condition they would not allow the security forces and police in the town.

"They signed an agreement with us and promised physical and financial assistance," Siraj claimed.

He said the Ulema and elders would now run affairs of the subdivision as police and other government officials had disappeared before their (Taliban's) arrival.

Residents in Puran said after their arrival in the town, the militants set up check-posts at Yakh Tangi, Dherai Top on Chakesar Road and Dua village.

Local residents said hundreds of militants in the wee hours of Friday entered the Puran subdivision, the hometown of Engineer Amir Muqam, and peacefully captured all police stations and government buildings, which had been already vacated by local police and other concerned officials.

"By capturing both the subdivisions – Alpuri and Puran – they virtually took hold of the whole Shangla district," said a local union council nazim, while talking to The News on telephone from Puran.

According to sources, militants were now at a distance of only two kilometres from Amir Muqam's ancestral village in Chagam.

Members of Amir Muqam's family, who survived a deadly suicide attack in Peshawar, have already shifted to Islamabad. Five persons including a close relative of Amir Muqam, Pir Muhammad Khan, were killed in the suicide attack.

Shangla District Nazim Dr Ibadullah Khan, who is younger brother of Amir Muqam, has shifted to a safe place after realising that there was no one to stop the militants' advance.

Talking to The News from an undisclosed location, Dr Ibadullah said a Jirga of local elders held negotiations with the militants and persuaded them to leave Puran as peace already existed there and the residents were true Muslims. He said militants now started searching houses for government servants.

He said militants had shifted police inspector Sher Hasan to an undisclosed location after picking him up from his home.

On the other hand, Pakistan Army troops from their bases at Kund in Bisham and Matta Aghwan near Belay Baba continued firing mortar and artillery shells on the militant hideouts.

Some of the shells fell on residential areas in which six houses were destroyed at Daulat Kalley Banda near Belay Baba.

Local villager Moeen Shah said his own and five other of his neighbours' houses were destroyed when shells hit their village on Thursday night.

Also, two soldiers of the Pakistan Army were injured when a roadside bomb hit a military convoy in Battagram district on their way to Shangla.

Meanwhile, hundreds of worried families left their abodes in the troubled Shangla district and shifted to comparatively safe areas in Bisham.

Authorities also clamped a 12-hour curfew in Swat district and Malakand Agency, starting from 2 am.

People living along the busy Malakand-Mingora road were directed through mosque loudspeakers not to come out of their homes from 2 am to 2 pm.

Official sources said the curfew was imposed to provide safe and unhindered passage to the troops, who would be proceeding to the restive region today (Saturday).

AFP adds: Major General Waheed Arshad said Cobra choppers Friday pounded two "miscreant" bunkers as well as mountain positions near the Saidu Sharif airport.

Artillery strikes in the same area on Thursday killed 40 rebels including a top commander, he said. The raids were in retaliation for a mortar strike on the airport on Wednesday night that killed two soldiers.

"We launched retaliatory fire. We intercepted the militant communications which confirmed they lost 40 men," Arshad said, adding that he had no details of casualties for Friday's fighting.

He said a leading militant commander named Matiullah was among the dead.

Residents said that Matiullah's funeral was led by the militant movement's fugitive leader, Maulana Fazlullah.

"We have lost a strong mujahid (holy warrior) leader," militant spokesman Sirajuddin said by phone from an unknown location, referring to Matiullah.

In another part of the valley, troops dug in overnight and launched new attacks against a "heavy presence of miscreants who are occupying various heights" along one of the main roads leading toward China, Arshad said.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

This is a strange "war". The "militants" come in and take over police posts and towns with no resistance, and no violence (or is there violence? Why else is the Provincial President's family running? )

Then the "paramilitary forces" come charging in like the Wild Bunch, and shoot up the place. The "militants" then encircle them and disarm them, sometimes be-head them.

Then the Army comes charging in with the US helicopters and F-16s and generally trash the whole place, indiscriminately killing civilians.

The "militants" then coolly move to another town and take it over..... and impose Shariah.

Can someone pls do a comparison with the Spanish Civil War? As I understand, there were Communists, who took over the villages, then the Guardia Civil of the government came in and raided the villages and raped the women and arrested and killed the men.

Then the forces of Franco came through and destroyed the government forces, and took over the country. Any parallels to a General Franco waiting in the wings?
ajay_ijn
BRFite
Posts: 318
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 20:43

Post by ajay_ijn »

a solution to this tribal problem i had in my mind. Tell me if its good or bad.

How about Pakistan withdraw all its troops, recognizing the indepdence of entire NWFP & other areas completely under tribal control? Then US is free invade or use its airpower on NWFP.

will Tribals then further intrude into Pakistan like what happened in Swat?
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8548
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Post by Dilbu »

ajay_ijn wrote:a solution to this tribal problem i had in my mind. Tell me if its good or bad.

How about Pakistan withdraw all its troops, recognizing the indepdence of entire NWFP & other areas completely under tribal control? Then US is free invade or use its airpower on NWFP.

will Tribals then further intrude into Pakistan like what happened in Swat?
For all practical purposes the tribal areas are independent of TSP govt control. My wild guess is that Gola must have promised unkil that TSPA has control over this territory and that Talebunnies will be smoked out easily when he became a MuNNA long back. Now when the push comes to the shovel, he has two options. Either to send in TSPA and try to look like doing something against militants atleast for Unkil's audience or to declare that TSP govt has no control on tribal areas like you said. But Gola being Gola and TSP politics being TSP politics, no one is sure as to what is to be done at the moment.

I honestly belive these FM Radio types don't stand a chance if a professional army (even if it is downward skiing TSPA) takes them on. Therefore what is happening now seems to be a big confusion for every one in TSP. Is this what is called internal turmoil?
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Post by harbans »

Ajay/ Scorpio ji, good points. It's important what we understand by TSP Govt control in these areas. It may well be that TSPA retires to it's barracks and lets the tribal populace practise whatever form of taliban style sharia it wants to in the areas in lieu of not declaring independence. That will screw Uncle up badly even in Afghanistan. Afghanistan and Pakistan may well become Bush's bigger failure than Iraq in that case.

TSPA may well allow US troops to launch covert attacks in the area while it remains in the barracks, but it's next to impossible that US will achieve any tactical military victory. The whole male population that area is Taliban/ AQ. If US troops start operating there, tribals will declare independence from Pakistan.

If TSPA does act with the aim of getting Govt control it runs the risk of splitting loyalties in it's own Army. A risk that will entail TSPs certain civil war and subsequent balkanization. That will be probably the reason that TSPA top brass are reluctant to fight it out. It will literally have to fight every male above the age of 14 in most of these areas. Minimum it will have to contend with a cycle of attacks on power centers, govt institutions, terrorist attacks on a vast scale within these areas and beyond.

Of these the least risk scenario is TSPA making surreptitious deals and accepting taliban style sharia laws in these areas and returning to the barracks. It may secretly give the go ahead for US troops to locate AQ cells and eliminate them. However it will never do so publicly. This is the dilemna which the TSPA faces.

There are hardly any logical choices left for TSPA/ TSP/ US in the region. It will ultimately be mass dynamics that will force leaders to act, failing which you can check options available to TSP: civil war and balkanization, more civil war and then balkanization, internal TSPA coup by a jihadi general/officers and men and subsequent declaration of Taliban style Islamic sharia entire country from the ramparts of Minar e Pakistan.

JM2P, JMT etc but i think this is the sort of scenario we're staring at unfolding in TSP.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Scorpio:

Mush cannot afford to LOSE the war there. But... he cannot afford to WIN it either, because then he loses his biggest leverage against the AmirKhans. So this may explain why there is no Bugtistan-type decisive operation against Mullah FM. However, the Baki Fauji in Pakhtoonistan must also realize that the operation is without any intention of winning, so the only end is for the individual soldier to die/ be disabled. This is not exactly great for morale - at least in wars against India, there was always the hope of a swift UN ceasefire. Nothing like that here.

What can Mush promise his junior commmanders as reward for going to this war?
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8548
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Post by Dilbu »

enqyoob wrote:Scorpio:

Mush cannot afford to LOSE the war there. But... he cannot afford to WIN it either, because then he loses his biggest leverage against the AmirKhans. So this may explain why there is no Bugtistan-type decisive operation against Mullah FM. However, the Baki Fauji in Pakhtoonistan must also realize that the operation is without any intention of winning, so the only end is for the individual soldier to die/ be disabled. This is not exactly great for morale - at least in wars against India, there was always the hope of a swift UN ceasefire. Nothing like that here.

What can Mush promise his junior commmanders as reward for going to this war?
Mush certainly seems to be heading for lamp post either way. :wink:
menon
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 50
Joined: 02 Dec 2005 09:23

Post by menon »

Scorpio wrote:
enqyoob wrote:Scorpio:

Mush cannot afford to LOSE the war there. But... he cannot afford to WIN it either, because then he loses his biggest leverage against the AmirKhans. So this may explain why there is no Bugtistan-type decisive operation against Mullah FM. However, the Baki Fauji in Pakhtoonistan must also realize that the operation is without any intention of winning, so the only end is for the individual soldier to die/ be disabled. This is not exactly great for morale - at least in wars against India, there was always the hope of a swift UN ceasefire. Nothing like that here.

What can Mush promise his junior commmanders as reward for going to this war?
Mush certainly seems to be heading for lamp post either way. :wink:
Does anyone seriously believe that Mush will be ousted? I do not!! Already he is talking of handing oer nukes to jihadis. U nless negroponte speaks like pehalwan Armitrage and threatens serious action like carpet bombing Pakistan, Mush will threaten and Gubo US of A and they will agree.
Simple!!
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Post by harbans »

Mush cannot afford to LOSE the war there. But... he cannot afford to WIN it either, because then he loses his biggest leverage against the AmirKhans.

That ofcourse is one reason why he cannot afford to win it. Also what does 'winning' really mean in TSPAs context? Avoidance of taliban sharia, avoiding the areas being declared independent, delivering Zawahiri, mullah Omar, Bin Laden, or combinations of the above or all the above.

Of the above options delivering Zawahiri, OBL and MO might just satisfy US or maybe not. Rest will cause fissures in TSPA. Fissures in TSPA is one thing that whisky guzzling pro US/ RAPE top brass cannot afford one bit. The threat of that is real. That is one reason this is looking both unwinnable for TSPA and also one they cannot afford to lose. For all the above choices the battle is going to be long and hard. A demotivated Paki army will crumble down in the long run. The talibs know that. They smell blood and won't back out now.

TSP is going to face it's own music. It has no choices left. JMT etc
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60252
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Post by ramana »

N^3, The Taliban takeover of Afghanistan was similar. The 'militants' would surround the troops and shout Islamic slogans and the troops would join them. Dont know what else like bribery etc was going on but this was the Modus operandi.


harbans they have reached a cul de sac with the present trajectory of Army, Allah and Amrika controlled rulership. They need to have a paradigm shift. In the past the notables who I defined earlier used to submit to new force with the understanding they would be left alone and in charge. If the fundamentalists are the new force they will behaed quite few notables.

Notables have no fight left in them from 1000 A.D. Dilawar Khan Lodi told Babur that by changing the top they hope to escape the tyranny and oppression of the Ibrahim Khan Lodi. This is the same refrain that every age comes up with.


There is a Turkic aspect to all this. The Turks strongly beleived in crushing the opponent and leave no quarter. Hence defeat is not an option for survival. Either compromise and join up or eliminate your enemy. This feature has crept into the Indian meme also over last millienium.
vsudhir
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 03:44
Location: Dark side of the moon

Post by vsudhir »

There is a Turkic aspect to all this. The Turks strongly beleived in crushing the opponent and leave no quarter. Hence defeat is not an option for survival. Either compromise and join up or eliminate your enemy. This feature has crept into the Indian meme also over last millienium.
Well put.

And about time too. There was no other way seemingly to fight a foe that fought along those lines. The Buddhists gave up and we saw what happened to them. What bugs me again is the Indonesian example - a native Hindu culture that gave up to Islam 'peacefully'. Could happen again in India under EJ onslaught, me fears. Time will tell, this topic is OT here but thanks for the above gem.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

PAKISTAN ARMY PREPARES FOR GENOCIDE.. AGAIN
RAWALPINDI, Pakistan, Nov 17 (Reuters) - Pakistan's army will soon launch a big operation in a northwestern valley to clear out militants who have infiltrated from Afghan border strongholds, a commander said on Saturday.
....

The head of the military operations, Major-General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, said the army was about to launch a major operation to clear hundreds of militants out of the Swat Valley in North West Frontier Province.

"The concept is to clear the Swat Valley as soon as possible and to eliminate as many (militants) as possible," he told reporters at army headquarters in Rawalpindi.

The scenic mountain valley with trout streams and the country's only ski resort had until recently been a tourist destination.

But Pasha said up to 500 well-armed militants, led by a hard core of 40 to 50, including Uzbek fighters, had infiltrated from the Waziristan border region and from Afghanistan, in support of a radical cleric, Fazlullah.

The police had failed to stop the militant build-up in the valley 120 km (75 miles) northwest of the capital, Islamabad, Pasha said. He also blamed "political neglect".

"OVER BY END OF DECEMBER"

Pasha said during heavy fighting this week -- in which the army said about 100 militants were killed in attacks by helicopter gunships and artillery -- the army had been "shaping the environment", blocking a militant escape route.

About 15,000 soldiers would take part in the offensive which would involve what he described as surgical attacks to avoid civilian casualties.

He said he hoped the valley would be cleared and open to the public by the end of December.

Security forces have been battling militants along the Afghan border, especially in the remote North and South Waziristan regions, in recent years and hundreds of soldiers and militants have been killed.

But the militant infiltration into the Swat valley has raised fears of the insurgency spreading into so-called settled areas.
...

Some analysts have said morale in the army, trained to face external aggressors, was suffering because of the focus on fighting within the country.

Many Pakistanis question Musharraf's close alliance with the United States and see operations against militants in the northwest as merely doing America's bidding.

Pasha denied that morale was low but said internal-security operations raised particular problems.

"It is not easy ... your own people trying to get you," he said. (Editing by David Fox)
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Mullah Container-Feed - the one who sent 30000 in trucks to die in containers.
TNSM chief Sufi Muhammad released, shifted to Peshawar Aqil Yousafzai
PESHAWAR: The founder of banned Swat based religious group Tehrik-e-Nifaze Shariah Muhammadi (TNSM) chief Maulana Sufi Muhammad was released and shifted to Peshawar from Dera Ismail Khan jail here on Friday. Official sources informed that Sufi Muhammad had been released for providing medical facilities because he was requested from last few months and would soon be backed to DI Khan prison after the complete physical check up, but well informed sources claimed that government wanted to utilise him against those elements who are fighting against troops in Swat, Shangla and other surrounding areas. According same sources Maulana Sufi muhammad was shifted Peshawar through a special Aircraft from DI Khan jail where he was in prison since last six years. He was arrested by border security forces in 2001 when he tried to enter in Pakistan from Afghanistan with several his other colleagues. After his arrival in Peshawar, he was shifted to Hayatabad Medical Complex under the tight security of secret agencies and other troops. Nobody including media was allowed to see or meet him in hospital. A reliable sources informed The Frontier Post that several High level officials visited him on Friday evening and negotiates with him for a long time but sources were not ready to informed this daily about the agenda. Unconfirmed sources also claimed that the NWFP caretaker Chief Minister Shamsul Mulk also contacted the Maulana in the hospital for paving the present situation in Swat. Another sources disclosed that government wanted to use the former chief of TNSM against Maulana Fazlullah who is leading the present opponent group in Swat Valley, as the Maulana is father-in-law of Fazullah and he (Fazullah) would obey his father-in-law order. Swat based sources added that several closed people to Maulana Sufi Muhammad were contacted by the government on Friday evening and they were offered if they ready to negotiate with Sufi Muhammad from government side and well arranged meeting among them in next few days expected. On the other hand a high level official claimed that Sufi Muhammad was ready to play a role of cooperation regarding maintaining peace in Swat because he always opposed violence in past for the implementation of Islam and believed on peaceful process.
Saved from: http://www.thefrontierpost.com/News.asp ... =17-11-200
Dated: November 17, 2007 Saturday 06 Zeqaad 1428 A.H
Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Post by Johann »

vishnua wrote:Did you actaully read the book ? I don't remember the author but can get that.

Well.. Let us see no of dead on the afghan side.

The author clearly says the mood was titling towards what i said .

If you won't survuve then how can think defeat?

Afghans then had pak to go but this time it is not the same if they (faithful)want to go afghan side provided they are being choked from pak side.
Vishnu,

Of course I've read it.

But I would also suggest you read the *Soviet* General Staff history of the war, KGB assessments, not to mention Afghan accounts, etc that are available. Throw in a few histories of Vietnam, Algeria, Namibia, etc as well.

Body counts (even accurate ones) do not win guerilla wars.

Neither the Soviets, nor the Afghan communists were able to rally any Afghan community to their side outside a fraction of the small urban population.

Thanks to this they fundamentally lacked the manpower to pacify the country or control the borders.

They could push the Afghan population out of the country, but that simply enlarged the pool of Afghan men who could afford to take up arms.

Short of genocide you have to be able to start winning over communities in order to be able to defeat an insurgency.

Najibullah's appointment as president in 1987 and his national reconciliation movement was a belated acknowledgement of this fact *after* the Soviet withdrawal was in motion. IOW his political offfensive failed because it came from a position of weakness, not strength.

If the Afghan communists and the Soviets had adopted such political tactics back at the start of the 1980s, when they still had some degree of military initiative they could have won over enough of the Afghan population (and hence the opposition) to have a fighting chance of survival after the inevitable Soviet withdrawal.

p.s.
In 1971-74, after US forces had withdrawn, the the South Vietnamese govt controlled most of the *populated* countryside between the cities. That was because the Viet Cong had been rejected by the South Vietnamese after the reforms following Diem's death in 1963 - the threat came instead from the conventional North Vietnamese Army.

In the comparable period in Afghanistan 1989-92, DRA control was strictly in the cities. Desertion rates in the South Vietnamese Army 1954-1974 were far, far lower than the DRA Army 1978-1990.
Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Post by Johann »

enqyoob wrote:What can Mush promise his junior commmanders as reward for going to this war?
- Cash, land and faster promotions to those on the messy end and who are far down the pecking order.

- That he has a workable plan to win the Pashtun war while minimising PA casualties and humiliations.

But PA junior officers and NCOs arent going to take the offer seriously unless they believe Musharraf is actually going to survive long enough to deliver, and that whomever comes along next will also protect them.

Plus of course if you *really are* a true believer it is impossible to ignore all the fatwas telling you every day that you will burn in hell for eternity for fighting Allah's real soldiers.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Just want to post this so it stays for a while - it should be a "sticky
on this "Pashtun Civil War" which is going to turn into "Pashtun Genocide".

It's from SSridhar:
The Pashtun tribals are as much a 'rentier tribal' as TSP is a 'rentier state'. These tribals have played both sides of the coin at various times. So long as the objectives of TSPA and Al-Qaeda coincided the tribals were no problem. The Taleban, who come from these same tribes, and the Al-Qaeda foreign terrorists have skillfully exploited the 'Islam in danger' lie and the anti-Americanism. The more TSPA relies on Predator UAVs and PAF gunships to attack these areas, the more their hatred will be for Musharraf.


These people are neither "good" nor "bad" any more than anyone else in TSP, and are probably a LOT more trustworthy in their own way than the Pakjabis and RAPEs are.

About the only use that the TSP government has for them is to use as cannon fodder for their various misadventures. They come cheap because other jobs are non-existent there, the land is barren and rocky, the climate is hostile, water is short, they have no education, and very little tradition of any flourishing civilization (except those they were paid a pittance to go loot and rape and burn).

But.... like any humans, if you go bomb their mud huts and kill their loved ones and their wives, children etc, they are not going to be very pleased at that. They will fight back, and they always have. Mush & Co are betting that they can keep this response "calibrated" and limited, but with the suicide bomber technology and culture, and the recent mass deaths among the Waziris in Afghanistan, that "calibration" may be about to disappear. This is because the "calibration" has always been done using bribes and threats directed at the tribal leaders. But now the Mullahs have gained equal footing or better with the jirga leaders, and the mUllahs, control at least as many young men with guns, as the jirga elders do. Probably far more.

Does killing or bribing a mullah achieve calibration? Does a suicide bomber become a happy citizen just because his mullah suddenly tells him that American is good and Gola is good? I don't know, but I don't see how.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21234
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Post by Prem »

India needs to rent these Tribals for next few years . MOD should have separate budget for keeping them on payroll till Bakistan go kaboom . We lost the oppertunity to use them 60 years ago , now is the time to outspend Bakiland in bidding war with these people. Their contempt for Pakjabis is well know and let there be millions IED Mubarak greetingss in Lahori world, courtsey of their Pashtoon neighbors.
vsudhir
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 03:44
Location: Dark side of the moon

Post by vsudhir »

x-post from TSP thread.

The story of the rise and rise of Mullah Fazlullah and the TNSM (Outlook)

*Very* interesting read, IMHO.

Some excerpts:
Sources in intelligence agencies say jehadi groups, including the TNSM, provided sanctuary to militants operating in Afghanistan. This prompted the Americans to fire a missile at the TNSM seminary in Bajaur on October 30, 2006, killing 82, including seminary head Maulana Liaquat. His elder brother and TNSM leader Faqir Mohammed promised to avenge the killing of innocents. Response was swift: a week later, a suicide bomber blew himself up at a Punjab Regimental Centre training school at Dargai, near Peshawar, killing 45.

The retaliation boosted the TNSM's popularity. Riding its crest, Maulana Fazlullah appealed on his FM channel for donations to build a TNSM madrassa in Iman Dheri. The people of Swat and adjoining areas contributed Rs 38 lakh in just 24 hours. Spread on the bank of the river Swat, the madrassa is 80 per cent complete; the amount collected: a whopping Rs 35 million. Emboldened, his organisation established a veritable parallel administration in several tehsils, taking down the Pakistani flag and replacing it with a white pennant.

When the Pak army began its military operation, Fazlullah asked his people over the radio to resist the soldiers deployed to kill the innocent. Three days later, two suicide bombers rammed their car into a military truck in Mangora, killing 33 soldiers. At least 10 security personnel have been beheaded publicly.
And here I am, desperately trying not to gloat..... :twisted:
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21234
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Balochi, Bengali oo Pathan, Genocide Allah, Amrika ke naam

Post by Prem »

3rd Genocide by Pakistani Army in full Swing
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/nov-2007/21/index5.php

60 militants dead in Shangla operation

Sarfaraz Khan
SHANGLA — As many as 60 militants were killed when gunship helicopters pounded a school building at Manarai Sar in Shangla district on Tuesday, said the eyewitnesses.
A number of civilians were also killed and injured during the military action at scattered places in Shangla district.
In the continued operation against militants, calling themselves as Taliban, the armed forces with the help of gunship helicopters shelled a school building allegedly occupied by the militants.
The building was destroyed with all its occupants were killed. The local people believe that more than 60 militants were using the school building as a shelter.
Though the officials confirmed killing of 16 militants in the action, yet they did not rule out presence of around 60 militants in the building at the time of attack. The school building was situated close to a mosque held by the militants.
Several mortar shells also fell on some houses in Manarai Sar area, killing and injuring many civilians. According to the residents of the area, over 25 civilians were killed and many more were injured in the action. Women and children were also among the victims.
Four other civilians were also killed in Wahabkhel village when some stray mortar shells hit houses in the area. A schoolteacher was among the dead. Also, a number of civilians, mostly women and children, sustained injuries in Kotaki
Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3486
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Post by Aditya G »

What has the world come to?

Pakistan must learn counter-insurgency from India
http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2007/1 ... rom-india/

:D

Edit: This is actually a well written piece on India's COIN strategy:
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.2 ... detail.asp
Moeed Yusuf (myusuf@sepr.com.pk) is the director of strategic studies at Strategic and Economic Policy Research in Islamabad and a teaching fellow at Boston University. Anit Mukherjee (anitm@yahoo.com), a former Indian army officer, is a doctoral candidate at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies. AEI research fellow Christopher Griffin and editorial assistant Evan Sparks worked with Messrs. Yusuf and Mukherjee to edit and produce this National Security Outlook.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Pak Army attacks Mingora, but makes poor progress:

[quote]Clashes continue in Swat



By Hameedullah Khan


MINGORA, Nov 21: Security forces backed by helicopter gunships and heavy artillery advanced a little further towards Alpuri, the headquarters of the Shangla district, on Wednesday.

Security personnel said that around 30 to 35 militants were killed when troops regained control of Manai Sar, a strategic height overlooking the road connecting Alpuri with Besham, a major town in Shangla.

However, a militant spokesman refuted the claim and said the militants had killed about 40 soldiers in fierce clashes in Shangla district.

“We are very much in control of the area and the claim made by the security forces is a lie,â€
Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Post by Johann »

X-Post from the Pakistan thread:
SSridhar wrote:X-Post from the Pashtun Civil War/Genocide thread:
Aditya G wrote:
What has the world come to?

Edit: This is actually a well written piece on India's COIN strategy:
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.2 ... detail.asp
Absolute cr@p. The Lal Masjid in the middle of I'bad was allowed to drag on for six months. Musharraf's government said that the surest way to tackle militancy in NWFP was to enter into peace deals with them while the surest way to tackle militancy in Balochistan was to massacre them mercilessly. That's the double standard that these closet islamists adopt between tackling jihadi islamists and sub-nationalists. Except for Ms. Pinky, none, absolutely none, has expressed concern about the 'urgency to tackle militancy in the tribal belt'. Not, Shujaat, nor Nawaz or Qazi hussai or Fazl-ur or Imran. In fact these are all strong Islamist supporters.
Pacifying ? Is that the role of the Army ? Shouldn't the TSPA go to FATA with the intention of eliminating these jihadists if the earlier claim of a tectonic shift is true ? It is obvious that the GoTSP's intenions are still to keep these jihadists under their control for later opportunities in Afghanistan and India.


The Pakistani state lacks the interest and the will to end Pashtun area's use as the safe haven for global and regional jihadi forces.

However the PA is urgent about ending the destruction being inflicted on the state machinery in Pashtun areas. The Pakistani state has slipped from sarkar, to kingmaker. to major player when it comes to the local power equation.

What the Americans in particular are still weighing is to what degree Pakistani state's loss of control in the area translates to a loss of Western access in terms of disrupting Al Qaeda activity, and/or an increase in the threat from the Taliban.

The article is part of a pitch for the US to pay for a systematic COIN campaign that would allow the Pakistani state to re-establish its authority in Pashtun areas. The pitch being 'this will work, and its in your best interests because its cheaper than using American troops' - its cheaper than using American troops, Karzai's troops being too few, and airstrikes being insufficient.

This is a very attractive offer for the Americans, but they will demand certain things - they are going to shoot back that Pakistan's record of civil governance is abyssmal, and that they will not be able to make such a plan succeed on its own. That the US design and structure such a campaign, and that US civil-military teams are integrated down to the district level, with control over funding reconstruction, payoffs and weapons distribution to tribes willing to fight pro-AQT forces, etc.

In exchange for Pakistan essentially becoming a supervised subcontractor in the governance of a large part of what is ostensibly its own soil, the pre-existing aid flows, including military aid flows that go direct to the Pakistani state will continue.

Unless things go very wrong, no matter which of the current contenders comes to power in Islamabad, they and the rest of the PA leadership will accept such a deal. The dollar signs in their eyes, and the hope of regaining strategic depth will be too strong.

The Ziaists will not go away - they are going to fight this bitterly by
(a) instensifying the process of Islamisation in Pakjab
(b) intensifying appeals to the wider ummah that Pakistan is under kufaar occupation, and that the PA leadership has sold out to the Zionist-Crusader conspiracy

The process of the fragmentation of the PA's domestic support base, and the Islamisation of Pakistan over the question of Allah vs. America will continue. My estimate is that the break is about a decade and a half away.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25371
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Post by SSridhar »

Johann wrote:My estimate is that the break is about a decade and a half away.
The upcoming election is a turning point in the pathetic history of TSP. The Pashtuns who came so handy in creating the Kashmir situation and later in capturing Kabul, have become a handful and there is extensive covert and overt support for them in TSP. The election is leading to a stronger and wider foothold for jihadi Islamists. None of the current crop of politicians, and none in the horizon as well, is capable or willing of halting the slide. One needs the ingenuity of TSPians to lose a large nation such as TSP in a matter of six to seven decades. While the timeframe for the breakup is a little difficult to predict, what looks a certainty to happen in the next five years or so is the rise of a Civilian Islamist politician to power simultaneously with a military Islamist General. This unholy combination will be deadly for TSP, Asia and beyond. Break up will have to be preceded by such an unholy alliance that would inflict a lot more pain to all of us as all our pain threshold seems quite high.
Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Post by Johann »

Hi Sridhar,

I meant the break between the US and Pakistan.

15 years is a median projection. Of course depending on the particular way in which events and trends combine it could be sooner, or it could be later.

As you say it will happen when you have an openly Islamist politician and an openly Islamist COAS.

That is what the Ziaists are pushing for, and they are willing to destabilise Pakistani cohesion if that's what it takes to produce that situation.

They are perhaps the only element of the Pakistani ruling classes willing, and in fact eager to contemplate a break with the US.

They are the only ones in the establishment who believe Pakistan can not only survive but achieve real power in the region and in the ummah without the humiliating, anti-Islamic compromises which the Yankee crusader-imperialists demand.

ZA Bhutto's joyful wilingness to thumb his nose at the US over all sorts of things from nuclear issues to cultivating friendships with American enemies, his energetic cultivation of the OIC instead, etc was in many ways the key inspiration for Zia and the Ziaists.

BB in that political sense, with her decades long dependency on US support is not ZAB's daughter.

Zia and his followers combined ZAB's strategy and tatics with real faith in the inevitability of Islam's victory.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

The PA gets serious about the genocide: blocking food and medicine. OTOH, they shut down Mullah FM's station, but only by jamming (which is temporary) as opposed to air strikes. So they are willing to starve the civilian population, but not hit the radio station.

Interesting way to get news out from a censored pigsty: From below, v can c the areas where PA is completely out, since they are blocking food to those places:
Khwazakhela, Charbagh, Kalam, Madyan, Bahrain, Matta and Shangla
Hallo Cartographers??

Also, here are the borders:
checkpoints had been established in Kabal, Kanju and Sangotha in the north of the district to ensure that nothing was taken to the ‘battled zone’.
Food blockade in Swat areas

By Hameedullah Khan


SWAT, Nov 22: In an attempt to increase pressure on militants, the authorities on Thursday imposed a food blockade in parts of Swat amid reports that a full-fledged ground assault is being planned by security forces.

Officials in the district said they had imposed the blockade to stop food supplies to the militants, adding that checkpoints had been established in Kabal, Kanju and Sangotha in the north of the district to ensure that nothing was taken to the ‘battled zone’.

The blockade came into effect around midday on Thursday and would remain in force till the objectives were achieved, officials said.

The militant camp appeared to have been worried by the blockade as their spokesman Sirajuddin threatened to unleash suicide bombers if the authorities did not lift it.

The officials said that food items going to Khwazakhela, Charbagh, Kalam, Madyan, Bahrain, Matta and Shangla would be seized.

The officials also said that the military’s signal corps had blocked Maulana Fazlullah’s FM radio and the militants in control of Fazlullah madressah on the banks of River Swat had pulled down their antenna.

The military has set up five of their own FM channels, including one using Fazlullah’s radio frequency to block the cleric’s broadcasts.

The official said the army was using the frequency to broadcast Quranic verses to counter Fazlullah’s pre-recorded broadcasts. “We are not using the radio to indulge in propaganda,â€
Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3801
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31

Post by Paul »

These people are neither "good" nor "bad" any more than anyone else in TSP, and are probably a LOT more trustworthy in their own way than the Pakjabis and RAPEs are.
While I am not sure what role Trust plays in this game. However they are further away from us than the RAPES, hence the choice for us is clear.

Similar to what the Brits have been doing for centuries to keep their pre-eminence....i.e.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Actually, helping the Pashtuns defeat the TSPA has the dual benefit of
a) smashing the TSPA's power and hastening the breakup of Gaandustan.
b) ensuring a permanent state of "heightened alert" in Pakjab, with a lot of their resources dedicated to keeping the Pashtun on the other side of the Indus. To do this, the RAPE will have to smash Talibanism inside Pakjab.

By the same token, the RAPE will then be seen as the most gaandoo of Pakgaandos, and with any luck, there will go the dream of Attaturk II, and the Wahabi Recruit Pool for KSA. Pakjab will have to revert to doing whatever else they were doing before they discovered Islamofascism (prostitution? sugarcane-growinga and thieving? cattle-thieving? donkey-rearing (no pun intended)? )

Win-win.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

www.frontierpost.com
Dreadful measures!
Zubair Torwali Swat angeltorwali@gmail.com
It is frightful to hear from the people who have travelled Mingora today-22/11/2007 that the security forces involved in Swat operation have started a campaign to restrict the supply of food stuff to the areas of Swat beyond Mingora. People say that they saw the security forces to stop trucks to carry flour and vegetables to the upper parts of Swat. I myself interviewed three truck drivers who were not allowed to carry the stuff beyond Fizagat, the tourists scene that lies opposite to Mullah Fazalullah's stronghold. One wonders why the army does this. What kind of strategy is this? Do they want the whole people of Swat to rise against them or they think all the people of Swat as militants? Such measures are only taken during a war with an enemy. Hope the army top brass is not too naive to regard the people of Swat as enemies. The people of Swat want peace. They are not on the side of the militants. They have been shunned both by the public and private militants. The mass migration proves the dread of the people. The valley people are between the deep sea and the devil. On one hand they are harassed by the militants while on the other hand they are bulleyed by the state. They can neither stand by the "one man" government nor can support the uprising of the militants. Even common folk now talk of the whole uprising and the consequent operation as a game. Musharraf is using the Swat drama as a ground to stay as president. People say that the said deployment of heavy weapons such as Tanks was a show before the US official Negro Ponte. The news that the army has decided to cut the supply line of whole Swat was felt as a thrill in the areas where the militants have no hideouts. This will definitely stir the general public against the security forces. The authorities responsible are implored that, for God's sake, abstain from taking measures which can provoke the peace desiring people.
Amarjeet Cheema
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 10
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 10:35

Post by Amarjeet Cheema »

enqyoob wrote:Actually, helping the Pashtuns defeat the TSPA has the dual benefit of
a) smashing the TSPA's power and hastening the breakup of Gaandustan.
b) ensuring a permanent state of "heightened alert" in Pakjab, with a lot of their resources dedicated to keeping the Pashtun on the other side of the Indus. To do this, the RAPE will have to smash Talibanism inside Pakjab.

By the same token, the RAPE will then be seen as the most gaandoo of Pakgaandos, and with any luck, there will go the dream of Attaturk II, and the Wahabi Recruit Pool for KSA. Pakjab will have to revert to doing whatever else they were doing before they discovered Islamofascism (prostitution? sugarcane-growinga and thieving? cattle-thieving? donkey-rearing (no pun intended)? )

Win-win.
Strongly disagree. While the defeat of Pakis at the hands of Pakhtoons will warm many Indian hearts, what would we have after such an event ? A Pakjab looking over its shoulder nervously across the Indus ?

I do not think so. Such a defeat will hand over the power inside the Paki army to the true believers (I mean those that not only use Islamists against India, but those that keep long beards and actually believe fervently in the Islamist bullshit and follow it in their lives). The argument will be - Paki army should have never fought that war, and what will ensue will be a complete massacre / marginalization of the Paki RAPE class. While that might be satisfying in the short term for us, it will remove the last few obstacles (however imperfect) for Islamists and actually hand over Paki nukes to Islamist crackpots.

The converse of what you suggest is also not useful for us. The complete victory of TSPA over the Pakhtoons will allow the Paki state to resume its campaign against us.

What is best for us is a state of constant war, in which we support / covertly supply the side that appears to be losing at the moment. What we need is for this conflict to go on for about as long as possible. Call it the return on investment on the policy of death by a thousand cuts. That it is poetic justice makes it satisfying in addition to being very useful.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21234
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Post by Prem »

Salvador Option Comes to Pakistan


Presumably encouraged by the wonderful results from Iraq, where death squads reign by night even as rotting corpses terrorize streets by days, the United States is now considering grafting the Salvador Option — policy to arm factions to fight proxy wars on American behalf, a la death squads in Central America and, more recently, Iraq — to Pakistan. I hope the leadership in Pakistan is not stupid to play along. This could spiral out of control sooner than anyone can imagine, and literally mean the end of Pakistan.

http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archi ... ption.html
Raj Malhotra
BRFite
Posts: 997
Joined: 26 Jun 2000 11:31

Post by Raj Malhotra »

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8548
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Post by Dilbu »

Blocking food supplies for a whole district? Man, what kind of a tactical brilliance is this? IED mubaraks and 72 houri type bombings are going to rise like anything. I feel sympathy for the illiterate powerless poverty ridden local Abdul of the SWAT valley who has nothing to do with the BS policies of the country he was born into.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Amarjeet:

If the TSPA had been formed for the defence of Pakistan, they would (a) not have fought against India in 1948 or 1965, (b) not have conducted genocide in 1970, and (c) refused to participate in the disastrous misadventure of 1999.

They are formed as a money-generating force for their masters. So there is no real likelihood of the Pakjabi Army HQ being allowed to be taken over by Pashtuns.

Also, if a massacre of RAPEs by a Pashtun-led TSPA were to start inside Pakjab, Unkil will crater their HQs and all their heavy weapons. As for the "new clear weapons" I'll just not laugh, thank u. What Unkil has shown in the past month is that Mush is given a lot of rope to hang his golas up regarding FATA, Balochistan etc., but he has little leeway to crack down on the Pakjabi RAPE. Condi Rice makes phone calls, editorials come out by the dozen from Dera Angeles to Londonabad calling for Mush to be kicked out... and calling for US strikes on TSP. The lines are very clear.

The RAPE are protected by Unkil (with approval of Poodle) and Empelol Hu.
So the best we can hope for is a Pakjab that stays free, but surrounded by hostile entities.

I wonder what will happen to Sindh, since the penetration of Islamists there is pretty high. OTOH, the city seems to be firmly under TSPA control since they have enormous investments there in the waterfront and housing developments and hotels.

So the destruction of TSPA in FATWA is win-win. Once they have lost most of the 80,000 that they sent there, the TSPA will be forced to realize that time is running out, and they will put preservation of the rest of their cannon fodder, over the usual priority of making $$$$ for the Jarnails. Then the only way to keep the IED MUbaraks out is to crack down big-time on Islamism. Ban burkhas and beards, kick out most Pashtuns and Balochis and Kashmiris, pull into the cantonment mentality which is standard TSPA doctrine. Minefields along the Indus east bank, and the Pakjab-POK border. Unkil will be most delighted to fund this newly Democratic, Secular Republic of Pakjab as Frontlyin, Al-Lie. So will Empelol Ho, though he may maintain excerrent lerations with Barochistan and Sindh too, for the naval access.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7115
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Post by Muppalla »

Pashtuns winning against TSPA and if all parts of TSP is in the hands of bearded guys it will be very good for India in the long run. In such a scenario, Pakistan is represented by its "real" power and not the masked power of RAPE/moderate/whatever and PakiJabs.

It gives a opening to India to solve the problem of Pakistan for ever.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

More to the point, the sh1theads will do to themselves what they did in Eyeran, PLUS, there is a 400% probability in this case that the US will do to TSP what they did to Eyerak, because the "WMD" bugaboo. In the case of Eyerak, no one except the neocons and the idiots believed that Sad-am actually HAD any functional WMD. In the case of TSP, no one except me will DISBELIEVE that TSP has functional WMD. So the "UN/NATO" response is likely to be a nice combination of their sweet dispositions exhibited towards Eyerak AND Afghanistan.

As predicted on the CNN forum in 1999, India faces a huge problem - all the RAPEs fleeing to India. Mine the border NOW, avoid the rush later.
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8548
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Post by Dilbu »

What about electrifying our fence. Or increasing the volts if it is already done.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7115
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Post by Muppalla »

Both pashtuns and Indian Army should kill the fleeing RAPES. It solves a lot of problem in the sub continent.
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8548
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Post by Dilbu »

Muppalla wrote:Both pashtuns and Indian Army should kill the fleeing RAPES. It solves a lot of problem in the sub continent.
RAPES should not be killed. They can be used as cannon fodder for the tribal jihadis to prevent their attention turning to India.
Amarjeet Cheema
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 10
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 10:35

Post by Amarjeet Cheema »

enqyoob wrote:Amarjeet:

If the TSPA had been formed for the defence of Pakistan, they would (a) not have fought against India in 1948 or 1965, (b) not have conducted genocide in 1970, and (c) refused to participate in the disastrous misadventure of 1999.

They are formed as a money-generating force for their masters. So there is no real likelihood of the Pakjabi Army HQ being allowed to be taken over by Pashtuns.

Also, if a massacre of RAPEs by a Pashtun-led TSPA were to start inside Pakjab, Unkil will crater their HQs and all their heavy weapons. As for the "new clear weapons" I'll just not laugh, thank u. What Unkil has shown in the past month is that Mush is given a lot of rope to hang his golas up regarding FATA, Balochistan etc., but he has little leeway to crack down on the Pakjabi RAPE. Condi Rice makes phone calls, editorials come out by the dozen from Dera Angeles to Londonabad calling for Mush to be kicked out... and calling for US strikes on TSP. The lines are very clear.
I think you totally misunderstood my point. I did not say that a loss of Pakhtoonistan would result in a Pashtun led TSPA.

I said that such a loss would free the last levels of pretence that keeps the hardcore Pakjabi Islamist under the nominal control of Paki RAPEs (who are also Islamists but like the shit to fall in other countries, not their own).

The closest historical parallel I can quickly think of for this would be a Menshevik vs Bolshevik struggle. Both are toxic to their targets in non-Islamic countries, but one is a hypocrite and the other a true believer (or about as close to a true believer as you can get).

Since Islamism is an ideology with just one wing (who is more ruthlessly Islamist being the only game in town), the Pakjabi Islamists would easily, without Pashtun involvement, wipe out the Pakjabi RAPEs (or at least reduce them to totally impotent figureheads - call it Operation Khatami).

As to possible US war against Pakjab, its not going to happen. That is the entire magic of nuclear weapons. You simply cannot take a chance of even a single nuke getting into the hands of terrorists.

The result of this process, whether it is a putsch or a gradual process, would be a Islamist Pakjab which allies with Islamist Pakhtoonistan in their common hatred of India and the West. With nukes to boot.

The difference between a RAPE and an Islamist is not much in the larger scheme of things, but the latter is far more likely to launch an utterly unprovoked nuclear jihadi attack, regardless of consequences.

I am not trying to imply that Puki RAPEs are our allies. I am just saying that the internal tension between RAPEs (who do worry about using a jihadi Paki nuke with a return address) and Pakjabi Islamists (who don't) keeps us safer in the short term.

There is only one real answer to the Pakistan problem - complete depopulation and restoration of the traditional religions of the region - Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Sikhism. But our current leadership is incapable (politically, economically and militarily) of doing that right now. A lot needs to happen before that - confirmed removal Paki nukes (none of this "Is Pakistan nuke-nude ?" guesswork), entanglement of China in some other matters, and the switching on of even a 5 watt tubelight (so dark is the place) in US' policymaking brain. We need to wait and work for these events, and in the meantime, having the RAPEs and Pashtun Islamists in a constant state of fratricidal war is the best place for us to be in.
Post Reply