Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 31 May 2011 22:29

^ But ramana ji, isn't the timing bit odd or is it that like Capos family, they no longer care because no one knows what is happening inside the cesspool called ISI? They could have killed SSS in so many innovative ways rather than kidnapping him first by their own goons and throwing his lifeless dead body in a typical cheap potboiler fashion.
Anyways RIP SSS.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 31 May 2011 22:41

Manny Ji, Everyone will agree that all of your analysis is completely agree-able except for the explicit use of the term "Secularist" while referring to these bunch of wine sipping clean shaven TFT pakbarics. Terming these animals as moderate" or even "liberal" (in comparison to the more radicalised Jihadi mullah party) is fine for the sake on argument in context , but referring to them as "Secularist" is totally an overkill.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 31 May 2011 22:42

The rhetoric against the Pakistani Army, the ISI and its Jehadi organizations specially the LET was really high pitched these last few days after the PNS Mehran attack.

People have been unusually outspoken in Pakistan, the old ISI/ Pak army apologists have been verbally thrashed on TV debates. There is a video of Hazrat Jahil Hamid (Piss Be Upon Him) getting a sound verbal bambu on one of the shows.

The Army had to clamp down on this, otherwise this was clearly getting out of hand.

Now with SSS taken out, and visibly so for all in Pakistan to see, the message goes across loud and clear.

Expect everyone to fall in line right away, Politicians calling for independent commissions and Journalists blaming the ISI and the Army for the mess. There might be a few who won't understand ISI's tough message, and the ISI is perfectly willing to kill again to prove that they still run that country.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 31 May 2011 22:46

The reason for SSS murder definitely lends credence to the claim that Paki nukes may not be safe. I never believed that they were safe anyway.

But, if the PN has been inflitrated, to such an extent, so must have been the PA and the PAF. In fact, in my opinion, the collusion seems to have reached such a stage that the AQ has their hands in PA's and PAF's pockets and play pocket billiards with consumnate ease.

In which case, how will NATO and the Israelis react? And does that explain why we have had two army exercises in one month on our western borders?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 31 May 2011 22:47

Interesting read.

Pakistan Detains Three in Base Attack

Pakistan's navy is generally regarded as less permeated by conservative Islamic groups than other branches of the armed forces.
The push by radical groups to indoctrinate members of the armed forces with Islamist teachings, begun in earnest in the 1980s during the military rule of Gen. Zia ul-Haq, was centered largely on the army.

The above is the preception created, bought by everyone else hook line and sinker. This has largely gone under the radar but it appears a assymetric threat was hidden in PN which was getting exposed (rather formally by recent attacks and SSS's piece).

Never underestimate the impact of lalmasjid type incidents left on armed forces. West will do well by aiding more such incidents in Pak and catalyzing the process of transformation.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 31 May 2011 22:47

^^ To be fair it sounds like SSS's refusal to divulge his ISI source appears to have been the issue? And his close contacts that puts him in touch with Taleban leaders. Its clear as the DG ISI media wing clearly admitted that SSS was in their custody. So everyone knows who to blame. Some journo's are mulling filing a case against Kiyaanahiin. The funny thing is, more and more of the public are getting annoyed with TSPA activities. Bodes well for long run, inshallah we will have GHQ spring too.

Its clear that the people are getting miffed with the TSPA. Kiyanahin will have to vent this somewhere - on the LoC perhaps? He'll want something to galvanise world opinoin. We should be on standby for a major attack.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 31 May 2011 22:50

So where does TSP go from here ?
Wait for next geo-altering event to get back into the Lap of Unkill or become poodle like NK to Cheen desh or just amble along with no target or hope except to bring India down.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 31 May 2011 22:50

Hamid Mir or Iftikhaar Ahmed or Hazaam Sethi are more household names in Pak than SSS. any of these guys getting tapkaaod will get people on the streets.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 31 May 2011 22:52

VikasRaina wrote:Why would ISI bump off SSS when it is under so much scrutiny after OBL raid, Mehran attack and Chicago case. Since when have reporters threatened a terrorist organization like ISI with expose and why would tat expose really scare off ISI, after all they are known to have rogue agents here and there.
I mean what kind of idiotic top brass would bump off SSS so publicly and draw whatever negative attention is left out onto itself. Hiding Navy's link with AQ in some online edition of a newspaper would not sever those links and anyways how big was the audience for SSS.

Because they are pakis?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 31 May 2011 22:52

Rangudu
Can you please verify that the Chinese who were inside the Mehran base when attacked left the country immediately after the attack was over?
Thanks
Altair
PS: This might be connected to SSS murder.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 31 May 2011 22:54

Saar there won't be a Spring against the Army anytime soon I suspect.

The ISI is willing to take out anyone who gets more vocal.
Finally the Pak Army's greatest threat is that they will withdraw and leave the public and politicians to the mercy of the Jihadis and the Talibs (who are the army's pet doggies).

I suspect that the armed forces have been shaken by the open revolt of the intellectuals and the Politicians, but they will quickly regain control. There is no mass uprising or even a hint of a mass grumbling in Pakistan still.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 31 May 2011 22:54

Even tapkaoo of OBL or Bhutto could not get people on the street. We very well know who can get people on the street in Bakistan.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 31 May 2011 22:55

Narad wrote:Manny Ji, Everyone will agree that all of your analysis is completely agree-able except for the explicit use of the term "Secularist" while referring to these bunch of wine sipping clean shaven TFT pakbarics. Terming these animals as moderate" or even "liberal" (in comparison to the more radicalised Jihadi mullah party) is fine for the sake on argument in context , but referring to them as "Secularist" is totally an overkill.

Yaar, What else can I call them? That's what they call themselves. They and the Amerkan lefties like Christiane Fair and that British Dr. Levin? (Whats his name again) and the Arundati Roys of India etc.. they are all the same. Bigger enemies of India than any Islamist. They all collude together and see India and the evil Hindus as the biggest threat to the world.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 May 2011 22:58

ISI must have got the info from S^3 before murdering him. So expect a few more "unfortunate" incidents in near future.

If those ISI/PN guys know whats good for them they will defect to US and spill the beans about why news about PN jihadi infiltration required S^3 to be killed with extreme prejudice?

They will get killed sooner than later by ISI squad.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 31 May 2011 23:02

One angle as implied by Altair ji is this:

1. SSS knew from a source that there were 10 attackers and not 6 as mentioned by RM.

2. That source is possibly a 'mole'.

3. The source also would be in a position to tell if there was a hostage situation involving Chinese.

4. Imagine if it were revealed in SSS part 2 article that PN/ ISI released 6 attackers in exchange for the Chinese.

5. The resulting revelations above would certainly strain even Chinese-Pak relationships.

6. People would consider PA/ ISI truly for what they are worth: Worthless.

Thus it may have become imperative to eliminate SSS before he came out on the Chinese hostage situation and PA/ ISI response to it.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 31 May 2011 23:03

Hard to say who is with whom in TSP. I doubt if DG ISI had any clue about "The End" of SSS.
Pakistan is truly a banana republic with no bananas to show.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 May 2011 23:06

Mannay and Narad, You are using global definitions to describe the Pakis and hence the verbal confusion.

Harbans et al has anyone posted Part 1 of S^3 last Asia Times article? If not post in full as it might have some clues.

I think after S^3's murder, Asia Times will become a defunct e-paper.

BTW, Rajiv Lather on this forum first figured out there were probable Chinese hostages and most likely exchanged for the attackers.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 31 May 2011 23:07

VikasRaina wrote:Hard to say who is with whom in TSP. I doubt if DG ISI had any clue about "The End" of SSS.
Pakistan is truly a banana republic with no bananas to show.

with Nukes and handlers to use the banana-republic for their needs. It may be hard for everyone to use this country or find themselves at the wrong end in the process.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 31 May 2011 23:07

gakakkad wrote:
Since the last few years we at BRF have been expecting a breakup of TSP.
A stable and a prosperous Pakistan is in the interest of the entire world.

acharya drone aapka satire samaj mein nahin aaya. current kaancept ij "no bakistan stable or unstable ij in intrest of world"

There is no institution inside Pak which is stable including military. The society is stable from an older social order and biradhari system. That is the only thing which is saving Pak.
The Pak social system from Zia Ul Haq was based on a promise of vision of Pak bigger and stronger. There was the promise of Kashmir from US and support from PRC. This vision of a larger Pakistan and rebuilding Pak 1.0 including east Pakistan has failed. The realization is resulting in extreme symptoms. The Pakistan is equal to India farce has now failed and even media feels shy to report like this.
The only thing which can be said now and repeated is "A stable and a prosperous Pakistan is in the interest of the entire world. "

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 31 May 2011 23:10

Really what a ack-thoo nation!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 May 2011 23:11

Acharya wrote:
gakakkad wrote:
Since the last few years we at BRF have been expecting a breakup of TSP.
A stable and a prosperous Pakistan is in the interest of the entire world.

acharya drone aapka satire samaj mein nahin aaya. current kaancept ij "no bakistan stable or unstable ij in intrest of world"
There is no institution inside Pak which is stable including military. The society is stable from an older social order and biradhari system. That is the only thing which is saving Pak.
The Pak social system from Zia Ul Haq was based on a promise of vision of Pak bigger and stronger. There was the promise of Kashmir from US and support from PRC. This vision of a larger Pakistan and rebuilding Pak 1.0 including east Pakistan has failed. The realization is resulting in extreme symptoms. The Pakistan is equal to India farce has now failed and even media feels shy to report like this.
The only thing which can be said now and repeated is "A stable and a prosperous Pakistan is in the interest of the entire world. "

Using the above premise we need to envison what has to be done to achieve that.

I think TSPA has to be cut down in size and more resources transferred to economic and social development. This will help the kabila stabilize.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 31 May 2011 23:13

Ramana Ji posting in full here:

Al-Qaeda had warned of Pakistan strike
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

This is the first article in a two-part report.

ISLAMABAD - Al-Qaeda carried out the brazen attack on PNS Mehran naval air station in Karachi on May 22 after talks failed between the navy and al-Qaeda over the release of naval officials arrested on suspicion of al-Qaeda links, an Asia Times Online investigation reveals.

Pakistani security forces battled for 15 hours to clear the naval base after it had been stormed by a handful of well-armed militants.

At least 10 people were killed and two United States-made P3-C Orion surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft worth US$36 million each were destroyed before some of the attackers escaped through a cordon of thousands of armed forces.

An official statement placed the number of militants at six, with four killed and two escaping. Unofficial sources, though, claim there were 10 militants with six getting free. Asia Times Online contacts confirm that the attackers were from Ilyas Kashmiri's 313 Brigade, the operational arm of al-Qaeda.

Three attacks on navy buses in which at least nine people were killed last month were warning shots for navy officials to accept al-Qaeda's demands over the detained suspects.

The May 2 killing in Pakistan of Osama bin Laden spurred al-Qaeda groups into developing a consensus for the attack in Karachi, in part as revenge for the death of their leader and also to deal a blow to Pakistan's surveillance capacity against the Indian navy.

The deeper underlying motive, though, was a reaction to massive internal crackdowns on al-Qaeda affiliates within the navy.

Volcano of militancy

Several weeks ago, naval intelligence traced an al-Qaeda cell operating inside several navy bases in Karachi, the country's largest city and key port.

"Islamic sentiments are common in the armed forces," a senior navy official told Asia Times Online on the condition of anonymity as he is not authorized to speak to the media.

"We never felt threatened by that. All armed forces around the world, whether American, British or Indian, take some inspiration from religion to motivate their cadre against the enemy. Pakistan came into existence on the two-nation theory that Hindus and Muslims are two separate nations and therefore no one can separate Islam and Islamic sentiment from the armed forces of Pakistan," the official said.

"Nonetheless, we observed an uneasy grouping on different naval bases in Karachi. While nobody can obstruct armed forces personnel for rendering religious rituals or studying Islam, the grouping [we observed] was against the discipline of the armed forces. That was the beginning of an intelligence operation in the navy to check for unscrupulous activities."

The official explained the grouping was against the leadership of the armed forces and opposed to its nexus with the United States against Islamic militancy. When some messages were intercepted hinting at attacks on visiting American officials, intelligence had good reason to take action and after careful evaluation at least 10 people - mostly from the lower cadre - were arrested in a series of operations.

"That was the beginning of huge trouble," the official said.

Those arrested were held in a naval intelligence office behind the chief minister's residence in Karachi, but before proper interrogation could begin, the in-charge of the investigation received direct threats from militants who made it clear they knew where the men were being detained.

The detainees were promptly moved to a safer location, but the threats continued. Officials involved in the case believe the militants feared interrogation would lead to the arrest of more of their loyalists in the navy. The militants therefore made it clear that if those detained were not released, naval installations would be attacked.

It was clear the militants were receiving good inside information as they always knew where the suspects were being detained, indicating sizeable al-Qaeda infiltration within the navy's ranks. A senior-level naval conference was called at which an intelligence official insisted that the matter be handled with great care, otherwise the consequences could be disastrous. Everybody present agreed, and it was decided to open a line of communication with al-Qaeda.

Abdul Samad Mansoori, a former student union activist and now part of 313 brigade, who originally hailed from Karachi but now lives in the North Waziristan tribal area was approached and talks begun. Al-Qaeda demanded the immediate release of the officials without further interrogation. This was rejected.

The detainees were allowed to speak to their families and were well treated, but officials were desperate to interrogate them fully to get an idea of the strength of al-Qaeda's penetration. The militants were told that once interrogation was completed, the men would be discharged from the service and freed.

Al-Qaeda rejected these terms and expressed its displeasure with the attacks on the navy buses in April.

These incidents pointed to more than the one al-Qaeda cell intelligence had tracked in the navy. The fear now was that if the problem was not addressed, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) supply lines could face a new threat. NATO convoys are routinely attacked once they begin the journey from Karachi to Afghanistan; now they could be at risk in Karachi port. Americans who often visit naval facilities in the city would also be in danger.

Therefore, another crackdown was conducted and more people were arrested. Those seized had different ethnic backgrounds. One naval commando came from South Waziristan's Mehsud tribe and was believed to have received direct instructions from Hakeemullah Mehsud, the chief of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (Pakistan Taliban). Others were from Punjab province and Karachi, the capital of Sindh province.

After Bin Laden was killed by American Navy Seals in Abbottabad, 60 kilometers north of Islamabad, militants decided the time was ripe for major action.

Within a week, insiders at PNS Mehran provided maps, pictures of different exit and entry routes taken in daylight and at night, the location of hangers and details of likely reaction from external security forces.

As a result, the militants were able to enter the heavily guarded facility where one group targeted the aircraft, a second group took on the first strike force and a third finally escaped with the others providing covering fire. Those who stayed behind were killed.

Next: Recruitment and training of militants

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief and author of Inside al-Qaeda and the Taliban: Beyond Bin Laden and 9/11 published by Pluto Press, UK. He can be reached at [email protected]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/ME27Df06.html

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 May 2011 23:14

People lay the blame on Zia uL Haq for Islamization of TSP Army. The roots were fed by Zulifkar Ali Bhutto and the seed planted by Ayub Khan, who increased the TSPA size to 500,000 which gave it the size to dominate the civil society.
These are the three fathers of TSP decline.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 31 May 2011 23:17

Acharya wrote:There is no institution inside Pak which is stable including military. The society is stable from an older social order and biradhari system. That is the only thing which is saving Pak.
The Pak social system from Zia Ul Haq was based on a promise of vision of Pak bigger and stronger. There was the promise of Kashmir from US and support from PRC. This vision of a larger Pakistan and rebuilding Pak 1.0 including east Pakistan has failed. The realization is resulting in extreme symptoms. The Pakistan is equal to India farce has now failed and even media feels shy to report like this.

Many times we lose the focus of history's trigger points. The reason for the descent is extreme-paranoid nature of Islamism. However, the real trigger for their fastest descent is the attack on India's parliament. The events that followed later made it to decend this fast to the state where they are now.
It too eight years.

The only thing which can be said now and repeated is "A stable and a prosperous Pakistan is in the interest of the entire world. "

This needs to be demolished too. A stable, Sindh, Baluchistan and Pashtunistan are in the interest of mankind and world as opposed to an artificial entity called as Pakistan. This should be next trigger point.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 31 May 2011 23:21

ramana wrote:People lay the blame on Zia Ur Rehman for Islamization of TSP Army. The roots were fed by Zulifkar Ali Bhutto and the seed planted by Ayub Khan, who increased the TSPA size to 500,000 which gave it the size to dominate the civil society.
These are the three fathers of TSP decline.

The ideological vision of what Pakistan would be was done by Zia Ul Haq. That is the most important and he lined this vision with the vision of US superpower in the fight against Soviet Union cold war/proxy war. This worked with the geo political strategic vision of US/Kissinger and the result is the current situation.

zia ul haq islamic summit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IinrDfIOqc

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 31 May 2011 23:24

Remember, it was no religious Muslims of Pakistan who killed 3 million Bengali Muslims, ...

Just want to correct this perception about 3 million Bengali Muslims being killed in 1971. It was the Hindus of East Pakistan that were targeted and bore the brunt of the 1971 genocide/gendercide/democide.
The relevant links in the first post of the TSP thread, as also following the links of the 'Genocide denial' thread, it becomes clear that 1971 was an opportunity grabbed with both hands by the Pakis to cull as many Hindus as possible. The 'lungi peek' black and white photograph is worth more than merely a thousand words. Tagging Hindu houses with yellow 'H' signs is well known. This was another chapter in the ethnic cleansing project of Pakistan. (1947 and the Kashmiri Pandits in the 90's being other well known chapters)

Linked here are a couple for reference and details on numbers
http://www.indiatribune.com/index.php?o ... Itemid=524
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/m ... angla.html

Numbers given are as high as as 2.1 million Hindus out of the total estimated count of 3 million butchered by the Paki namards.

Final disclaimer that this is not belittling the suffering of any of the 1971 victims. Just bringing out facts whenever the sufferings of Hindus are misrepresented (even though uknowingly) when recalling 1971.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 May 2011 23:27

So S^3 article clearly shows that PN has multiple jihadi celss and would have led to future attacks on US and NATO supply lines.

Even this is not enough to justify his murder. May be the unpublished account would give more clues. Attacks on NATO convoys are passe as 60% of supplies now route through Northern Areas in Afghanistan.

May be the real objective was to go to PAF Masrur and dognap the nooks?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 31 May 2011 23:34

Najam Sethi says:
a). The US has given the Pakistanis a list of 4 people (not 5) that they want taken out.
1. Ayman-al-zawahiri
2. Iliyas Kashmiri
3. Atia abdul Rehman
4. Sirajuddin Haqqani (son of Jalaluddin Haqqani)

Mullah Omar is NOT on the list. He has been given to the ISI to take care of to bring to the table or deal with as they choose fit.
b) Sirajuddin Haqqani is in North Waziristan, and the Pakistan Army will move in for a limited operation there, although it seems that they will be very reluctant to take out the Haqqanis. (The elder Haqqani is to be brought to the negotiating table)
c) The US has given the Pakistanis names of the cities where the remaining three are hiding. These cities are in SOUTH PUNJAB. The US has told the Pakistanis to take them out in joint operations or there will be more unilateral strikes against these guys.
d) Regarding Sirajuddin Haqqani, the US knows that pakistan will drag its feet to take him out. The US plans to take unilateral action against Sirajuddin Haqqani most probably.

So the expected thing is that there will be joint US-Pakistani operation in South Punjab to take out the 1, 2, & 3 of that list, and some bombing shelling etc in North Waziristan to try and take out Sirajuddin, and possibly unilateral US commando raid to kill/capture Sirajuddin Haqqani.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 31 May 2011 23:37

Pakistan is not our ally

Does anybody know where I can buy Pakistani flags wholesale?

I’m looking to stock up so I can burn one every time this so called “ally” lies to us, betrays us , helps the Taliban, closes down the supply lines to our troops in Afghanistan, executes it own citizens for converting to Christianity, murders its own few sane and brave politicians, kills anyone who criticizes Islam, burns Christian churches, officially approves the gang-rape of innocent young women as a matter of “honor,” beheads American journalists, develops nuclear weapons and sells the technology to other terrorist countries, promotes terrorist attacks on its peaceful democratic neighbor India and fails to govern large sections of its own territory leaving it a rat’s nest of murderous primitive fanatics.

I’ll need other Pakistani flags to burn whenever our “ally” undermines American intelligence efforts putting our agents’ lives at risk, condones a system of “religious” schools that teach nothing but hatred of America, The West, Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism, fails to tax virtually any of its so-called elite preferring to remain a backward perpetual beggar-nation, fails to combat rampant corruption so that most foreign aid is stolen, fails to show gratitude anytime ever for the massive aid given by donor nations and treats the burning of American flags and chanting of death to America as part of the national morning wake-up ritual.

Oh, and then there was that other thing. Our “ally” in the war against terror harbored the worst terrorist on earth for years in a conspicuous compound a few blocks down the street from the Pakistani military academy.

I refuse to refer to that place as some commentators have as “the Pakistani equivalent of West Point.” I’ve visited West Point. My cousin is a West Point graduate. Pakistan has no equivalent of West Point. Pakistan has no equivalent of Culver Military Academy. What Pakistan must have is the equivalent of the R.O.T.C. program at Faber College (Animal House) or something like Bill Murray’s boot camp experience in Stripes.

I get it that responsible American government officials are restrained from telling it like it is when it comes to this “ally” because the logistics of fighting the war in Afghanistan would be even more of a nightmare without the ability to send supplies through Pakistan. We need Pakistan in 2011 like Germany needed Belgium in 1914. But, as Pakistani betrayals and insults mount, the German way of addressing such needs merits study.

While our leaders may have to hold their noses and deal with the Pakistani government, the American people can still exercise their freedom to call a skunk a skunk. Pakistan needs to understand just how much hostility its two-faced policies have engendered in the hearts of the American people.

I’d like to see our congressman help make this point with the Pakistani’s by first, supporting measures to cut foreign aid, both military and humanitarian. They are as likely to use the weapons against us as against the Taliban. The little humanitarian aid that makes it through the gauntlet of corrupt officials has apparently bought us no good will. They have bitten the hand that feeds them often enough to make the hand wary of further offerings.

Second, we should fully support India, a true democracy, in its long simmering conflict with Pakistan . We should supply to India, at a fair price, the most advanced military hardware that we would entrust to any reliable ally, such as Britain. We should sell to Pakistan only such weapons as we would want to see in the hands of our worst enemies. Cruise missiles for India, defective flintlocks for Pakistan.

Third, we should tighten emigration and visa policies for Pakistanis seeking to enter this country. America has been enriched by many good and talented Pakistani emigrants who have become loyal citizens of this Republic. I respect them for the courage it took to emigrate and the conscious choice to become Americans.

Likewise, many Pakistani students who come here to study in good faith may someday return to help redeem their homeland from its ills. But we would be foolish to ignore the rampant state-condoned anti-Americanism that motivates the Pakistani wild men we see burning American flags and worse every day in our media. Our state department and homeland security must be increasingly vigilant in processing would-be entrants to our country from Osama bin Laden’s adopted, complacent and complicit homeland.

If Pakistan’s leaders persist in the appeasement of Islamic militants and covert support of jihad, the day may come when the world applauds as India re-establishes its historic dominion over the entire subcontinent, putting this failed state out of its misery. Even if India were unwilling to take on such a burdensome occupation, there is another more ancient way of dealing with an enemy or treacherous ally, the Roman way, which was, “to make a desert and call it peace.” Pakistan is already more than halfway there. If recent provocations continue, few Americans would weep to see all of Pakistan sink beneath the sands.

— Steven M. Fleece is a Charlestown resident

Supan allah I wish more average joe's think like him

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 31 May 2011 23:40

Najam Sethi's program:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_eP7UrBsvw
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcpqh-H_wc0
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9CLVVOfyx0
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK4iqJR-rc0

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 31 May 2011 23:48

NYT on SSS..covers this pretty well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/01/world ... istan.html

Excerpts:

Pakistan’s armed forces, and specifically the Pakistani Navy, have been highly embarrassed by the 16-hour battle that ensued at the base when six attackers climbed over a wall and blew up two American-made naval surveillance planes.

The armed forces chiefs have been deeply angered by the humiliation they have suffered from both episodes, and in particular the many questions raised about their competence by Pakistan’s increasingly rambunctious media.

Journalists reacted to Mr. Shehzad’s death Tuesday with horror and said the military and the chief intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, were sending a warning to others.

Ali Dayan Hasan, country representative of Human Rights Watch in Pakistan, said his abduction and killing bore all the hallmarks of Pakistan’s intelligence agencies. “It is quite clear by his own account and from his reports that they were deeply unhappy with his reporting,” Mr. Hasan said.

Mr. Shehzad had been receiving threats from the ISI for about three years because of his reporting that often relied on sources inside the intelligence agencies and inside the Taliban and other militant groups. Mr. Hasan said he had managed to confirm Monday that Mr. Shehzad was being held by the ISI.

Mr. Shehzad had a history of threats from the intelligence service. He moved from his hometown, Karachi, to the capital several years ago after receiving threats. Last October, he was called in by senior ISI officials who delivered a clear death threat to him if he did not reveal his sources on a recent story he had written

According to Mr. Shehzad’s own written account after the encounter, the two officials were naval officers, Rear Adm. Adnan Nazir, the director general of the media wing of the ISI, and his deputy, Commodore Khalid Pervaiz, who has just been appointed to replace the commander of the Mehran naval base in Karachi after last week’s attack. Calls to the ISI and the military press office for comment went unanswered.

Better to read it in full.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 31 May 2011 23:54

please move it to benis dhaga if appropriate

Pakistan, China friendship a lush tree: Ambassador Khan

Premier Wen Jiabao has wisely described the friendship between Pakistan and China as a “lush tree with deep roots and thick foliage, full of vigour and vitality,”

Diplomats in Beijing and around the world hear with some amusement the poetic expressions suggesting that Pakistan-China friendship is all-weather and time-tested; and that this relationship is taller than the Himalayas and deeper than oceans; and that it is stronger than steel, and sweeter than honey,” wrote Ambassador Khan in an article published in Beijing Review’s special supplement on the 60th anniversary of Pakistan-China friendship.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 31 May 2011 23:55

Gagan wrote:Najam Sethi says:
a). The US has given the Pakistanis a list of 4 people (not 5) that they want taken out.
1. Ayman-al-zawahiri
2. Iliyas Kashmiri
3. Atia abdul Rehman
4. Sirajuddin Haqqani (son of Jalaluddin Haqqani)

Mullah Omar is NOT on the list. He has been given to the ISI to take care of to bring to the table or deal with as they choose fit.
b) Sirajuddin Haqqani is in North Waziristan, and the Pakistan Army will move in for a limited operation there, although it seems that they will be very reluctant to take out the Haqqanis. (The elder Haqqani is to be brought to the negotiating table)
c) The US has given the Pakistanis names of the cities where the remaining three are hiding. These cities are in SOUTH PUNJAB. The US has told the Pakistanis to take them out in joint operations or there will be more unilateral strikes against these guys.
d) Regarding Sirajuddin Haqqani, the US knows that pakistan will drag its feet to take him out. The US plans to take unilateral action against Sirajuddin Haqqani most probably.

So the expected thing is that there will be joint US-Pakistani operation in South Punjab to take out the 1, 2, & 3 of that list, and some bombing shelling etc in North Waziristan to try and take out Sirajuddin, and possibly unilateral US commando raid to kill/capture Sirajuddin Haqqani.

GaganJi, we don't need Jihadi Sethi to tell us that

; our man R-man gave the exact same list the other day bereft of MO to my surpirse. Most likely, as you point out, MO is the dog bone thrown to TSP to come to the table with a reasonable agenda.

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 01 Jun 2011 00:00

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiap ... f=obinsite

should this one be in the benis thread?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jun 2011 00:01

Or the possibility that MO has been left out is because he is still 'incapacitated' ?

I had read R-man's post. glad to hear another who claims he got it from Pakistani officialdom re-confirming that.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 01 Jun 2011 00:12

VKumar wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiap ... f=obinsite

should this one be in the benis thread?

This is old news. However, what is interesting is the headline used

"Soldiers mistakenly kill themselves in Pakistan"

There was no element of sympathy. It could have been read "Pakistani soldiers killed in friendly fire incident while fighting Taleban". But no. It made them look like idiots; not an iota of respect.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Jun 2011 00:13

Brad Goodman wrote:please move it to benis dhaga if appropriate

Pakistan, China friendship a lush tree: Ambassador Khan
Premier Wen Jiabao has wisely described the friendship between Pakistan and China as a “lush tree with deep roots and thick foliage, full of vigour and vitality,”

Reminds me of the way the Maulana described the hoors in jannat! The likelihood is just as high!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Jun 2011 00:49

Muppalla wrote:
Acharya wrote:There is no institution inside Pak which is stable including military. The society is stable from an older social order and biradhari system. That is the only thing which is saving Pak.
The Pak social system from Zia Ul Haq was based on a promise of vision of Pak bigger and stronger. There was the promise of Kashmir from US and support from PRC. This vision of a larger Pakistan and rebuilding Pak 1.0 including east Pakistan has failed. The realization is resulting in extreme symptoms. The Pakistan is equal to India farce has now failed and even media feels shy to report like this.
Many times we lose the focus of history's trigger points. The reason for the descent is extreme-paranoid nature of Islamism. However, the real trigger for their fastest descent is the attack on India's parliament. The events that followed later made it to decend this fast to the state where they are now.
It too eight years.

Check what the plan was for Af Pak in the late 1980s with Zia Ul Haq and his vision for Af Pak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI889rzl_zI

This entire region has been hijacked for super power geo political goals

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Jun 2011 01:02

X-Posting from Siachen thread ...

China fear makes India harden Siachen stand

...
China's expanding strategic footprint in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, in fact, seems to have led India to harden its stand, which till now was largely about Pakistan providing iron-clad guarantees to "authenticate" the 110-km Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL) along the Saltoro Ridge, on maps and on ground.
...
..
For one, the Army is clear that if Pakistani troops occupy the heights vacated by it, then dislodging them from there would be virtually impossible. For another, if Indian soldiers had not been sitting atop heights ranging from 16,000 to 22,000 feet, Pakistan from the west would have long joined up with its "all-weather ally" China from the east through the Karakoram Pass to threaten Ladakh.

...
...
Indian soldiers, after all, occupy almost all the dominating Saltoro heights, sitting as they do 2,000 feet above the Pakistan positions. The Army has also stemmed its massive haemorrhage of earlier years in the world's highest, coldest and costliest battlefield with better infrastructure and logistics in place. Harsh weather-related casualties in the treacherous terrain, initially very high, are next to negligible now, say officers.

"What is the hurry? The over Rs 3 crore it takes per day to sustain our troops in Siachen is not prohibitive. If Pakistan could violate the well-defined Line of Control during the 1999 Kargil conflict, what is the guarantee they will respect the AGPL? That is why we have been insisting on foolproof authentication of the AGPL," said an official.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jun 2011 01:21

Then why that headline by TOIlet?