Bharat Rakshak

Look who else is supporting the bill now!!

SwamyG wrote:Rudradev: Why do you say Arvind Kejriwal is an "outsider"? He is regarded as the champion of RTI Act.

Irrespective of RTI etc., he is not a socialist/Gandhian. He is pure and simple left like that of Agnivesh, Gaddar or Vara vara Rao. Anna Hazare is different class and I an still not convinced he is a sellout. He is just being surrounded by the worthies.

Rudradev, you have articulated very very well. Kudos.

As I said earlier, the games were supposed to bring dividends to congress party electorally. As they saw no dividends and also a reverse gear in case of BR, they went on brutal suppression.

In case of Anna Hazare, they thought their own though "outsiders" are there and hence they thought they can manipulate it. They allowed Anna to become Tiger (your term) by means of first putting him in Tihar adjacent to Kalmadi and then releasing so that the middle classes gets more pumped.

However, they may not have visualized that it will backfire. It has backfired and niether Anna can come down from being "Tiger" nor GOI can succumb. Any bad move will give the opposition a good handle. Its handle could be another wave by BR. I see a possibility of an "October revolution".


This congress party is really a bankurpt party. There is not a single leader who can emulate a VP Singh or at least a Morarji Desai.

Not sure what all these games have to do with ending corruption.

Corruption will end only when everyone is on board, including party in power and yes leftists as well.

Else all Maya.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/team- ... 110823.htm
Team Anna invites Bukhari to Ramlila maidan

Anna Hazare's associates Arvind Kejriwal and Kiran Bedi [ Images ] met Jama Masjid imam Syed Ahmed Bukhari in New Delhi [ Images ] after he expressed unhappiness over their failure to involve Muslims into their campaign, but failed to break ice with the cleric.
'Anna didn't fast for Muslims after Gujarat riots'
Bukhari had expressed strong resentment and sought to know why Hazare and his campaign managers had not done more to involve Muslims in their anti-graft movement.Following his remarks, Team Anna members met him at his residence late Monday night in their attempt to clear his apprehensions and invite the Delhi's top cleric to the Ramlila Maidan where Hazare is fasting.Bukhari said he had told the activists that they also need to address the issues of concern to the Muslim community."We discussed at length the issues of our concern. I laid before them my point of view in totality. They in turn informed us about their campaign and their goals," Bukhari told PTI on Tuesday.He said Hazare's team members had also asked him to share the stage with them and Hazare at Ramlila Maidan but he was not inclined to go ahead."I told them that if you want to include Muslims in your movement, you will also have to understand their pain and problems, and you would do well to also highlight issues of concern to Muslims," he said, adding the greater evil in the country is communalism and any national movement should also address it."They said they would consider the points raised by me," he said.Bukhari said the "communal powers" were also playing a part in the campaign and they would never want Muslims to be active participants.

( Dont they Know Bookhari is a snake in the green lawn ?)

^ they have to at least appear to be making peace with Bookari as he called anna's Gandhi bluff. Didnt Gandhi prostrate in front of Khilafat brothers to get their support, so later he can get backstabbed by them? History will repeat hear too.

Since AH didn't talk about it, I would spare him for now. But the Anna team is first grade liberals who would compromise anything and everything to appear (sic) secular.

SwamyG garu, going with Rudradevji's logic, it could be that Aruna Roy, Loksutta JP became insiders while AK got ditched. He must be looking for revenge for he is robbed of all his hard work with RTI.

I was reading somewhere, there is yet to be a single prosecution on the basis of RTI, even though it is a good start.

If history is indicator of future events, then AH and AK will be dumped by Bhushans, Bedis in RTI round 2.

Irrespective of RTI etc., he is not a socialist/Gandhian. He is pure and simple left like that of Agnivesh, Gaddar or Vara vara Rao.

Muppalla garu, based on my personal interaction with Arvind Kejariwal (he was 1 year senior and we did a lot of social/cultural stuff together) he is a totally sincere and upright individual with honesty and integrity. More power to him. I also interacted with him when he toured the US after his Megasaysay award. I watched his interactions with people who clearly had leftist and p-sec agenda. He handled them adroitly and stuck to his message - that of fighting the corruption and not getting branded either way - right or left. I am immensely proud of him.

All the news that she is going to kick the bucket are exaggerated. The CON woman is back to screw MMS.

The suck media and pathetic morons of CON party are already building a story for her.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/anna- ... 110824.htm

Highly placed sources in the Congress party state that on the Anna Hazare issue, the government began moving only after party chief Sonia Gandhi's [ Images ] intervention made through Rahul Gandhi [ Images ].


Sonia Gandhi is out of country at an undisclosed destination taking medical treatment for an undisclosed ailment. However, no leader is ready to speak on record about her.

The sources also claim that she made it clear that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [ Images ] should write to Anna Hazare and Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee [ Images ] should be the main negotiator to handle the agitation and hold talks with the fasting protester to bring the ongoing crisis to an end.

Sources say that it was after that the government began moving and contact was established with the Anna camp.

The letter sent by the prime minister to Hazare urging him to end the fast was basically drafted on advise by Pranab Mukherjee and was cleverly worded, which made no promises but expressed concern.

This is the state of our nation and our slave Indians and media

SwamyG wrote:What I read about him says he was an activist and reformer, was he even in her camp before? Aruna Roy was part of the NAC even in 2005: http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/29/stories ... 690300.htm . She seemed to have played a part in RTI movement. {Here they along with Bhusan are blasting the WB on the issue of privatisation of Delhi Jal Board}

Here is a case of him fighting in 2005 against Corruption {http://www.hindu.com/2005/01/21/stories ... 190400.htm}

In fact, the National Campaign for People's Right to Information has written to the Congress president, Sonia Gandhi, complaining against the failure of the Sheila Dikshit Government to take action against the corrupt in the Food and Supplies Department.

SwamyG, let's not miss the forest for the weeds.

First: "Insider" and "Outsider" are not clearly demarcated categories; they are fluid ones. Surely there are many "Insider" civil society people who are not card-carrying members of the NAC. To add to this, there is no shortage of "aspiring Insiders" trying to worm their way into Maino Darbaar's good graces so that they can have a share of the extra-constitutional authority. Last night on Times Now, some two-bit jerkwad named Salil something was offering his opinion on how Anna Hazare movement is undemocratic, blackmail, blah blah blah. What rock are these guys crawling out from under?

Second: How does any Darbaar, especially a newly established extra-constitutional Royal Darbaar trying to impose its will on India's Parliamentary Democratic system, gain prestige and legitimacy? Of course, by becoming the entity to which public appeals are made, allegedly "in the interest of the people."

Whom did Kejriwal approach for RTI as well as the Food Supplies corruption issue? Sonia Maino. Who got the work done? Not the Indian judicial system, nor the Indian parliament, nor the legitimate GOI. The work got done because Sonia Begum snapped her fingers like a Mughal Empress of yore. Kejriwal came out of this looking good: a great crusader for RTI, as the media made him out to be. Sonia came out of it looking good, with added legitimacy and prestige for her extra-constitutional Darbaar. You see how this worked? There was a commensalism, a symbiosis between self-styled "civil society activists" and the Maino Darbaar... both get credit for something that the legitimate, constitutional system should have handled.

End result: unelected "civil society activists" get a lot of national prestige, and Maino Darbaar is strengthened as a political force in the country, while the constitutional Govt of India is undermined and sidelined.

In that sense, Kejriwal was part of the process by which Maino Darbaar established itself as a supreme authority with power over the government, and yet without any constitutionally-mandated responsibility to the people. Maino Darbaar does things like RTI, not because it is required to do so by the constitution; it has no constitutionally-mandated authority. It does these things because it is petitioned (like Emperor Jehangir was petitioned by the horse ringing his bell). It does them of a sense of noblesse oblige.

That is the image created: the all-powerful Maino empress is able to bend the Indian Parliamentary System to her will, and the people should be grateful for this, because the Indian Parliamentary System is corrupt and nothing gets done through it. Yet, as we all know, Maino is the biggest beneficiary of all corruption by the Indian government. Do you see how the scam works?

It does not matter one damn bit whether Kejriwal was part of Maino's "camp", ever... wittingly or not, by the very nature of his crusades he contributed to stabilizing Sonia Maino Darbaar as a lasting seat of extra-constitutional authority.

What happened after that, we cannot say. As RamaY says, maybe Kejriwal was ditched while Aruna Roy and others were elevated to "Insider"/NAC status, therefore Kejriwal is ticked off. Maybe as Abhijit's post suggests, Kejriwal was too principled to make the compromises demanded of him as the price of becoming an "Insider." No way to tell for sure.

The fact is, Kejriwal may once have been an "aspiring Insider" in Sonia Maino's Darbaar, but he is now an "Outsider." He is astute enough to have seen that it is possible to establish offices of Extra-Constitutional power in India, which totally bypass the Constitutionally-mandated system of governance. That is a concept which stands proven and vindicated, by the very existence of Maino Darbaar. So he wants to create another such seat of power: Lok Pal, whose occupant is to be determined once again by "civil society." But by *Outsider* civil society this time; therefore, the "Insiders" are against it.

That's why I say this is an Insider vs. Outsider battle, with Kejriwal as one of the Outsider leaders.


******

Lastly, another thought just struck me. All along, we have been thinking that Sonia Maino has appointed MMS to keep the PM gaddi warm for Rahul. But maybe this is not the case at all.

Maybe the truth is that Sonia has striven to establish the Maino Darbaar as a *permanent institution* of Extra-Constitutional authority instead. One that will forever be controlled by members of her dynasty, wielding full power with zero responsibility; and meanwhile, undermining the PM's office so that it will always be weakly amenable to taking orders from the Darbaar. Maybe Sonia wants Rahul to inherit, not the PM's gaddi but the Darbaar. Then he can take the lion's share of all scam money while shaking a self-righteous finger at some weak figurehead PM for "governmental corruption."

After all, in the PM's gaddi unpleasant things can happen... see how Indira died, see how Rajiv suffered abuse at the hands of the dirty Indian people and eventually got killed. Much better to rule from an insulated Darbaar with no answerability, free from the vagaries of electoral politics, no? It's a lot more Italian to seek power as a Kingmaker, than to sit on the throne as a King... see how the Medicis did it!!

Or maybe Rahul is the throwaway, intended to become a weak and confused PM... while the other child, the intelligent one, is destined to take over the Darbaar eventually as the *real* ruler of the country.

Hopefully we will never have to find out what the plan is.

Here is the proof of these suck up called Aruna Roy sucking up to prince.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 713236.cms
Aruna Roy briefs Rahul Gandhi on grievance bill

Rahul Gandhi stepped in to take charge in a time of crisis with National Advisory Council member and vocal critic of the Jan Lokpal Bill, Aruna Roy, meeting the Congress general secretary on Monday to brief him on their proposal on the Grievance Redressal Bill.

Sources told TOI that Aruna Roy was accompanied by Nikhil Dey, her associate and convenor of National Campaign for People's Right to Information, at the meeting.

The question is will the middle class still fall for these tricks or will they show the middle finger?

NikhilB wrote:

RamaY wrote: So there is no "Individual" responsibility and Dharma if there are no role-models.

Of course not, and hence people did protest, but we could not keep the momentum. We did not know till "when" or till "what is achieved" that we consider protest as successful.

And as Brahaspati put nicely, corruption touches everyone's life (it's money), but we can't expect every one person (even in remote villages) to be strategic thinker for nation. They are worried about their own daily life- and nothing wrong in it.

The thing is - for me, it was always about a factional fight between two factions within the elite. Elite faction that feels deprived of power fights those in power opportunistically. What I wanted to say was that Indian rashtryia system seems to be so intimately networked with external - especially "western" business and financial networks that extend globally - that things happen onlee when this external interest coincides with an issue being used by the "deprived" faction. The campaign of "indian corruption" has been steadily ramped up in western chants over the last 5 years - which for me was an indication that sooner or later disgruntled sections of elite will use the issue.

I guess Rudradevji has spelled this out brilliantly.

I would actually add the following:

(1) over the medium term, the "aam" aadmi will find that the Bill is more utilizable by upper-middle sections, and benefits a wider section of big business. The day-to-day level of corruption is such a huge proposition that it will never be reached or tackled by this white elephant that is being created.

(2) it will open up a career for sections of "elite" to have extra-parliamentary [not extra-constitutional since once passed it will become constitutional] careers to have vicarious bite of the power apple.

(3) it will soon form a closed special class - perhaps even ruled by "sublime" brains who expect all the people to "look up to them", beyond almost any effective accountability - and one more wing of the rashtra to appease more elite factions grieving at supposed deprivation from power they so richly deserve by their very eliteness.

(4) it will become one more tool in the hands of a dynastic system to ensure submission from rashtryia wings that have so far always shown signs of resistance over odd issues from time to time.

(5) if this experiment fails - politicians and the dynasty doesn't realize that almost all the excuses for the system will be used up. The judicial reforms bill will come almost simultaneously - and will similarly be ineffective. The reason both moves will fail is because they are not really in the interest of the political class.

(6) these moves will generate too much hope in the "commons" but the real motivation behind this was and will be to make biz transactions less costly for big-biz players in the global game and their potential or hopeful new clients in the ex-colonies. It is not about addressing these issues at the commons level. In fact neither the external nor the aspiring internals trust the commons that much - as indicated in the recent judgment that was against "arming the commons" theory - especially "tribals" who "might" decide to "turn against the rashtra".

To a certain extent the lessons of Alauddin Khilji have been learnt well by the rulers of India - and hence corruption at the commons level will have to be maintained, so that the population which can potentially "turn" against the "rashtra" [read "sublime minds"] is kept at a low level of subsistence through "affirmative positive discrimination" and kept dependent on state largesse.

The real issues of empowering the commons in terms of land and capital, based on economic level and not on fraudulent and constructed [again by different elite factions] special religious or social identity claims - for production, will not be taken up.

What it ultimately leads to is eventual disillusionment and a turn towards something that will not go along the current calculations of the elite and their any possible external backers.

Muppalla wrote:

SwamyG wrote:Rudradev: Why do you say Arvind Kejriwal is an "outsider"? He is regarded as the champion of RTI Act.

Irrespective of RTI etc., he is not a socialist/Gandhian. He is pure and simple left like that of Agnivesh, Gaddar or Vara vara Rao. Anna

I do not think being a Leftist in itself is a whole big problem. Some of the reforms in this World have come with the help of Left or Left leaning Unions and groups. There should be a nuanced approach in handling the Leftists/Socialists. Unfortunately, in BRF, we brand all Leftist into one giant poo-bucket. Those who kill and destroy, like the Maoists, are different kettle of fish. The political parties like CPI and CPI-M are nothing but political parties - filled with some goons. But it is certainly possible that there are some good nature souls in all parties. Be it INC, Commies or BJP. We have this tendency to look at everything in black and white, maybe a result of us being a jingo-leaning crowed.

I spent some time this afternoon, trying to read about him. I scanned google archives in the last 10 years - I included some of the links in an earlier post. I have not seen anything yet to categorize him in the dangerous category of individuals.

Rudradev: You are connecting dots and weaving a story. No doubt it is fascinating. Sonia has had this power for how many years now? Before that INC ruled the country and for a very small time BJP got its share too. If what Anna Team is saying is true, then this has been languishing in the hands of Indian Politicians for 40+ years. For good or bad, if Sonia was instrumental in passing RTI - it is good for the country, no? Or is it bad because she blessed it? It becomes important if RTI is crucial for the country. Now we can always find fault with RTI too.

Right now you are building a story based on data and inferences that is all. Right now, the information out on the Internet/Public domain does not corroborate that. But that does not mean you are wrong. You could very well be correct, and I admit the possibility of such connections. I do not rule anything out.

IndraD wrote:A frail Anna Hazare dramatically took to the podium at 9.10 pm on Tuesday, exhorting 25,000 supporters at the Ramlila Maidan to block the police if they come to forcibly take him to a hospital. “If they come to take me, block the gates to stop them, but do so in a peaceful manner.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Don-t-let ... 36811.aspx

A video of this speech of Anna's - http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4382058.cms

Some where in the meek corner, I feel this would happen if anti corruption becomes weak.

http://oldfables.blogspot.com/2011/01/a ... lague.html

I don't have to say who would be the ass, should it happen.. but everyone knows who the wolf is.

SwamyG wrote: I do not think being a Leftist in itself is a whole big problem. Some of the reforms in this World have come with the help of Left or Left leaning Unions and groups. There should be a nuanced approach in handling the Leftists/Socialists. Unfortunately, in BRF, we brand all Leftist into one giant poo-bucket. Those who kill and destroy, like the Maoists, are different kettle of fish. The political parties like CPI and CPI-M are nothing but political parties - filled with some goons. But it is certainly possible that there are some good nature souls in all parties. Be it INC, Commies or BJP. We have this tendency to look at everything in black and white, maybe a result of us being a jingo-leaning crowed.

I spent some time this afternoon, trying to read about him. I scanned google archives in the last 10 years - I included some of the links in an earlier post. I have not seen anything yet to categorize him in the dangerous category of individuals.

I disagree on this and more on this will be OT for this. Fighting corruption is easy and a neutral stuff for their ideologies. It works and let it work for now.

Current Arvind Kejriwal looks exactly like Medha Patkar or even a Swami Agnivesh. If you roll back 15 years, Medha was very very hardworking with only poor villagers of MP to stop the dam work. These folks are very dedicated and methodological.

Arvind has no problems in working with Missionaries of charities or Aid as they are secular though very christian in reality. He even went ahead and telling to the Anna organizers that too much of Vandemataram and Bharat mata ki jai makes us look like RSS and hence let us have Inquilab Zindabad. (Read deccanherald article -I don't have link). Again a simple thing like Bharat mata ki jai has become communal and these folks look at image building in such a narrow fashion.

Some are very intelligent folks and until really pushed to wall they will not spill their p-sec ness. They are always happy with p-sec ness but have serious discomfort if any association of similar dedicated org or persons from the hindu orgs joins them.

Being a leftist and also good is oxymoron and you are free to disagree with me. It is just a layered stuff like your n-tier architecture in software development. They are always sympathetic to Maoists and only under force they even make condemnation statements.

I had this on this forum longtime back about a similar character called as Jayaprakash Narayan of Loksatta. He did not even think it is a decency to condemn the terrorists when newsmen approached him after the blasts in Hyderabad. They have to go in loops of logic when confronted with such situations. For them every criminal is like one of the primary characters of Maniratnam movie such as Roja where a lot of sympathy is associated with the killers and kidnappers.

For me
Left leaning = anti national but cannot be prosecutable
Left = Traitor and escaping the laws from prosecution

Period.

SwamyG wrote:Rudradev: You are connecting dots and weaving a story. No doubt it is fascinating.

Yes. Definitely good material for a Hollywood conspiracy film. Would suggest including the term "X-Files" somewhere in the title for effect.

Folks, this article might throw some light on Kejriwal. He comes across as a well-intentioned guy to me with end justify the means approach.
http://www.caravanmagazine.in/PrintThis ... oryId=1050

Our "honest" PM is given some "nice" adjectives in this video...confirms what I always thought about MMS - a mediocre economist with no conviction but highly ambitious to the point of sacrificing all self-respect (if he ever had any).
http://www.chauthiduniya.com/2011/08/an ... ister.html

By the way at a long shot if Anna become PM, Retd. Gen Padmanabhan's theory in his book comes true.

SwamyG wrote:Rudradev: You are connecting dots and weaving a story. No doubt it is fascinating. Sonia has had this power for how many years now? Before that INC ruled the country and for a very small time BJP got its share too. If what Anna Team is saying is true, then this has been languishing in the hands of Indian Politicians for 40+ years. For good or bad, if Sonia was instrumental in passing RTI - it is good for the country, no? Or is it bad because she blessed it? It becomes important if RTI is crucial for the country. Now we can always find fault with RTI too.

Right now you are building a story based on data and inferences that is all. Right now, the information out on the Internet/Public domain does not corroborate that. But that does not mean you are wrong. You could very well be correct, and I admit the possibility of such connections. I do not rule anything out.

SwamyG garu, what are you afraid of in taking a stand, being wrong? Just curious.

I see beginnings of WKKism in your post. It is up to you what you want to be. Just an observation, TIFWIW.

Some stuff from WSJ

Room in Hazare’s Tent for Muslims, Dalits?

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011 ... al+Time%29

Another sweet news item. A Muslim girl offered juice to AH and he politely declined it.

The rats are coming out A good development for the time being. Time to save AH.

should read - staying in with the corruption force. why face the problem of agitation citation etc..? quotas and segregated seats will be jeopardized.

c/o muffat service

All of a sudden, BJP finds fault with Anna’s bill, but refuses to spell out its objections - http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_al ... ll_1579091

Chennai: Surprisingly though, a lot more women were seen at the venue through the day. “There has been a marked increase in women coming in today and they have participated quite actively, unlike the week so far,” confirmed an IAC volunteer.

Radhika M and Veena Jayaram, housewives from lower-middle class homes in nearby Adyar, arrived at noon and said that they would like to contribute. “We spend so much time at home, now it’s going for a good cause. Hopefully our husbands won’t mind when they see us on TV,” said Radhika.

While small groups from many software companies had organised either bike rallies or marches to show their support, G S Subramaniam, the Managing Partner of Softeon India Pvt Ltd went one step further. “I have brought my entire staff here today to join this movement because I believe it has to start from the top,” he said and went looking for an IAC sticker large enough to cover the back of his car. He brought 100 men and 40 women to the venue.

http://expressbuzz.com/cities/chennai/s ... 07039.html

People skip work to be with Anna all day - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/peopl ... y/836179/0

Holiday or not, there were no signs of the numbers at Ramlila Maidan going down on Tuesday as hundreds of people who would normally be at work had taken leave in order to be at the protest site for the whole day.

Dalvir Hooda, an employee at CR Polytechnic, said he would take leave for as long as the fight for the cause lasted.

“I am taking it on a day-to-day basis. As long as Anna is here I will call my office and take leave for that day. A group of about 15 colleagues will also join me on Wednesday and for as long as it takes after that,” he said. He said his employers also had no problem with people taking leave for the Anna Hazare-led agitation.

Rajinder Singh, a civil contractor from Shakti Nagar said he had ‘abandoned’ his business since the past four days and was dedicating his time to be part of the anti-corruption movement.

“My work is important, but right now what I am doing here is the main thing. I feel that especially in my line of work, corruption is a major roadblock and I have to support any movement to clean up the system,” he said.

Guwahati traders down shutters

GUWAHATI: Business establishments here remained closed till 1 pm on Tuesday with the All Guwahati Traders & Shopkeepers Association calling a half-day off to take out processions in support of Anna Hazare. Hundreds of shopkeepers and traders marched in groups through the main thoroughfares and converged at Dighalipukhuri-par, where the local chapter of India Against Corruption has been holding a token fast for the past one week.

Railway staff threaten strike

New Delhi: More than ten lakh employees of the Indian Railways have threatened to go on a strike if the Anna Hazare impasse is not resolved immediately. Representatives of five railway unions gathered at the Ramlila Maidan and met Anna Hazare to extend their support. “We all are against corruption and we came here to express our solidarity with the Anna Hazare and his cause. All the members discussed the issue and we do not rule out going on a strike if this issue is not resolved,” said Gopal Mishra, spokesman, All India Railways Federation.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/echoe ... t/836223/0

Now, SBI employees back Anna Hazare - http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/CHD-no ... 75638.html

... So are women from Mewat and men from Punjab
Chinki Sinha,Chinki Sinha Posted: Aug 24, 2011 at 0251 hrs
New Delhi From the podium, a thin wiry woman thundered. “Sailab se keh do, apni aukat mein rahe.”

Mumtaz Behan from Mewat was cheered by the crowds at the Ramlila Maidan.

“Jo unpe haath rakhega, usse benoor kar denge,” she hollered into the microphone. The crowds swayed, clapped, whistled.

In a blue salwar kurta, she went on, promising the support of all women in Mewat.

The women of Mewat in Haryana, known to be a backward region with low literacy levels and poor health indicators, joined the Hazare sit-in, hoping to root out corruption.

The rain started to fall. As she came down the stairs, the two young men started to sing.

“Mera Rang de basanti chola ...”

Another speaker went on to list the wide spectrum of support Hazare had garnered. Farmers’ unions, dalit organisations and Muslim leaders.

Shaheed Bhagat Singh’s nephew, Abhay Singh Sandhu, sporting a yellow turban waved the flag on the stage. He said he was with Anna and so were the people of Punjab.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ab/836193/

Flush with funds, team says no to cash

Sources in the IAC said they had sent many supporters back on Tuesday. "We had to face situations where supporters even offered blank cheques. We have told them that what we needed now was their support, and that IAC would start accepting donation only if it is required,'' said the source.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 715173.cms

Bhopal holocaust victims troop to Anna - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 715154.cms

Thousands of letters flood Ramlila Maidan - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 715165.cms

According to sources in IAC, Anna insists on reading each letter himself.
...
In one of the letters, a cop has claimed that Delhi Police personnel were in his awe. He states that as a cop, he wants corruption weeded out of society. The cop also provided his phone number.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 715165.cms

Muslim Women Personal Law Board backs Anna, slams Imam Bukhari - http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ri/836261/

Pakistan needs an Anna Hazare - http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... nna-Hazare

what pakistan doesn't need? why bring those fkers here?

^

Shashi Tharoor's Tweet: Every time a poor woman has to bribe to get a hospital bed, or a widow her pension, we know our system has failed us. Corruption isn't only 2G/CWG.

RamaY wrote: SwamyG garu, what are you afraid of in taking a stand, being wrong? Just curious.

I see beginnings of WKKism in your post. It is up to you what you want to be. Just an observation, TIFWIW.

Stance based on what? And afraid of what? Yes I am a WKK, a liberal, a leftist, a socialist and a progressive. Sometimes, when nobody is looking, I read the Communist Manifesto too. Happy? Now shall we get back to AH, AK ityadi and stop discussing me

Muppalla wrote:
For me
Left leaning = anti national but cannot be prosecutable
Left = Traitor and escaping the laws from prosecution

Period.

So, you call OT and then spout your opinions. I sure hope you are not anywhere near the corridors of power with that kind of opinions

I am new here. I wish to gather your opinion upon a plausible aftermath.

Can anybody see what happens if Mr Bukhari comes to fast unto death for prosecuting Mr Modi?
It will make UPA happy. Can fracture NDA coalition.
Even though judiciary will prevail but definitely it will ensure INC govt in the next term too. In addition to that it will attract attention of foreign media.
I am sure Madam Roy, Mander, Naulakha et al. will fast along side him. Though Bukhari is against congress too but this move will help congress, SP and WKKs.
I hope I made my point.

Anna has already promised land allocation reforms and electoral reforms. Do you see leftist inclination wrt land reforms? I seriously hope our parliamentarians have learnt a lesson and they start noticing issues of citizens to not let this kind of movement repeat itself.

Rudradev, Brihaspati, SwamyG et al: though provoking stuff. Cheers

kmkraoind wrote:Shashi Tharoor's Tweet: Every time a poor woman has to bribe to get a hospital bed, or a widow her pension, we know our system has failed us. Corruption isn't only 2G/CWG.

Anyone who has worked on Internal Control Systems will know for any control to work the most basic, crictical input in an organisation is "TONE AT THE TOP", since that is rotten, the system is rotten Mr. Tharoor, corruption cannot be cleaned with the present Top and thier Loyal PR managers. If we do not change them, we cannot clean the system. Leopard's dont change thier spots, and those who stole from the Honey Jar are not going to volutary stay away from it.

Outsiders vs insiders.

To say that RD appears to have done a fairly accurate assessment would be somewhat unnecessary, when does he not? And certainly this is a inter factional elite fight too, as B-ji said.

However let me add a few things of my own (adding on without necessarily agreeing or disagreeing)

1) This version of insider-outsider intra-elite battle is a DIRECT fall out of back stabbing of left in 2008-9 by the Congress in the same power. People keep asking "what changed", the change is obvious, its the moving away of left from Congress. Suddenly in two year skeletons as old as 2004-5 are tumbling out. For BRF, and people who minutely note all developments most of the new skeletons are actually old dust, but what we on BRF miss, because of being on the tread mill, is that for the Mango Bharatiya, he suddenly found out in 2 years that he was being suckered for 7 years or more. Now why did that happen?

Simple -- Media started talking about it, as opposed to a picture where they would not.

Some of it is certainly pushed by levers inside establishment such a Radia tapes leak, but that's not the only issue, suddenly bashing UPA was okay in media, as opposed to fawning obsequiousness that characterized UPA I

This is one direct fall out.

the SECOND direct fall out was the fight between opportunistic anti-national Congress type leftists such as Aruna Roy and Harsh Mander, as compared to more "dedicated" ideological leftists (right from Bhagat Singhs time they have been there) who are also pro-Indians if not pro-India.

What we see is also the fight between them.

2) I KNOW for a fact that a lot of hateful, rabid "RIGHT WINGH INTERNET HINDUS" are basically the "crowd" that makes up for the movement. Horror of horrors there are tons of "Sadhu's are their types" camping and managing langar.

The nature of the crowd is NOT sickular at all. They are there to chant Vande maataram, and they will be quite happy singing the FULL song.

Of course the media being the creature of the left, restrains itself to showing on the fringe line of "Sickular" support for Anna Hazare, but the 99,999 people out of 1 lakh who are not interviewed on TV are very much "Mango person" of the non "Sikular" variety and he is there for Bharat Mata.

========================================

The reason B-ji, that Bharat does not see a grand "taking sides" in the way you often express, is because for better or for worse, a lot of it keep taking sides all the time.

So a big bang, this way or that does not happen, (will not happen?) I am not being optimistic by the way, before you accuse me of that. Just stating observations.

ticker news on ndtv: Yashwant Sinha offers to quit BJP over differences on BJP's opposition to Jan Lokpal.

It would be interesting if there were a breakdown of "discipline" in all parties, and the govt were to lose the confidence of the house.

kmkraoind wrote:Shashi Tharoor's Tweet: Every time a poor woman has to bribe to get a hospital bed, or a widow her pension, we know our system has failed us. Corruption isn't only 2G/CWG.

The chain of bribes goes from Santri to Mantri.

ks das wrote: Can anybody see what happens if Mr Bukhari comes to fast unto death for prosecuting Mr Modi?

First of all if Modi has committed a crime, he should go to jail. Secondly, IMHO, to answer your question nothing will happen because it will lead NDA to react by organizing an equally bigger protest and fast unto death for reclaiming all the temples destroyed by Islamic invaders. UPA government will then run around trying to seek compromise.

Please note that the same strategy does not work in case of Anna's fast, i.e Anna is fasting for ending corruption and hence getting massive support from public. A fast directly opposite of that will be a fast for "increasing corruption". How much support do you think that fast will get?

For a fast to succeed in democratic India: 1) it must be non voilent, 2) it must be able to gather support, and 3) no one should be able to organize a counter fast without looking like a fool.

One can't establish a perfect Islamic state in India or a Hindu rastra or suceed with the Maoist movement without first tackling corruption. Irrespective of your political inclination, corruption is the common enemy and hence this issue finds support across all political boundaries.

Anna has already promised land allocation reforms and electoral reforms.

Still waiting for the current fiasco to end. Hopefully on a less corrupt note

Pranav wrote:

kmkraoind wrote:Shashi Tharoor's Tweet: Every time a poor woman has to bribe to get a hospital bed, or a widow her pension, we know our system has failed us. Corruption isn't only 2G/CWG.

The chain of bribes goes from Santri to Mantri.

LOL, what about IPL corruption regarding Kochi team Shashi Tharoor seems to have forgotten that one quite conveniently.

BJP seems desperate in shoving that long danda up their musharraff which Congress seems to be enjoying right now.

The public mood is extremely hostile to anybody who is seen as opposing or critical of the janlokpal bill since any such opposition is seen as a collusion to perpetuate the present corrupt edifice. While BJP’s criticism may be valid but then such a stance is seen as a malicious red-herring to delay the inevitable.

BJP must realize that it is a party of the middle-class aspirations, and must therefore voice the interests of the middle-class and be seen as convincingly sincere in it. Playing the congress harp will do them no good and they will yield their political space to anybody else who is willing to fill up the resultant vacuum. The least they can do is shut up.

Inder Sharma wrote:Playing the congress harp will do them no good and they will yield their political space to anybody else who is willing to fill up the resultant vacuum. The least they can do is shut up.

BJP has perhaps bought into media logic that all corruption by BJP is by right wing BJP/RSS while corruption by congress is systemic/generic.

Congress mind games for corruption are indeed more cunning. The left wing media would rather toe this line of generic/all-party/systemic corruption as soon as congress is mentioned.