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Neela: excellent recap. Thank you. I guess Ombaba is too focused on his reelection to worry about the US. If lucky, he will have a country after (if very very very lucky) reelection [do not hold breath. do not cross go. do not collect any money at all. Buy Bonds ItaliaHellas for insurence, for sure].
Hi Ramin:
Re: "maturity?" We are talking the paki, for pete's sake. did you read the BBC recap - above. Better still, Ramin, follow the entire series on Youtube. Then talk "maturity" of the paki. And, never - never, never,never, bracket the paki =,=,= to India in any context. The moment you become neutral looking at India and the paki, you need serious eye correction. Neutral between Iran and the US (is far more likely, imo). More like neutral between the US and North Korea. Ya. That is about the size of it. Keep that kind of "neutral" in mind next time you you consider neutrality between the paki and India. Better yet, instead of neutrality, go for the paki all the way. That way, will leave no doubt. [just saying, too]
<10 years of stupidity continues. Amreeki targets lies to the east. Me reminded of dark days of late 1980s, the horrible 1990s and terror of first decade of 2000. Why should I shed a tear for Amreeki/NATO soldier when our soldiers lost lives and limbs and we got sanguine preaching during that time. Let all-intelligent super dooper power Amreeka apologise to India and I will lay flowers in the war memorial for Amreekis near where I live>
Why waste flowers on those their own country puts up as human sacrifice to the paki. What were they thinking??? - I sure would like to know. Or may be "what were they smoking" - the best of the afghani stuff - which only they who offer up human sacrifice to the paki can get.
your commendation to the Indians for "trade concessions" are about 20 years too late. India gave the paki MFN that long ago. And no, it was not mutual. Now that the paki has its economic ass in a sling (as usual, but with no "unkil" to prop it up - unlike as usual), the paki is doing desperate things. Of course, it was not plastered all over the western "free" press when India extended MFN to the paki. It is now, since the devil child of the west - the paki - has been "oh so nice" and forced to reciprocate two decades or so later. neutral neutral - just saying.
This is not maturity on the part of Pakis but sheer desperation from fast crumbling state. Also, India withdrew its objection to eurozone giving concessions to Pakiland. That is the quid pro quo for this MFN status which is 20 years late in coming and that (Pakis getting tariff concessions for textiles) my man is going to hurt your country big time.
Parsuram, it is true. It is a Human sacrifice. Imagine the thoughts of a nato solider caught between a foolish Idiot-e-scum higher command and the claws of TSP waiting to take a swipe - that fear and futility will eat one alive.
Also, in the program not one indian was interviewed - this despite indias Warning for decades.
Now you know why Amreeki/Nato deserves to be called Idiot-e-scum.
<10 years of stupidity continues. Amreeki targets lies to the east. Me reminded of dark days of late 1980s, the horrible 1990s and terror of first decade of 2000. Why should I shed a tear for Amreeki/NATO soldier when our soldiers lost lives and limbs and we got sanguine preaching during that time. Let all-intelligent super dooper power Amreeka apologise to India and I will lay flowers in the war memorial for Amreekis near where I live>
-----------------------------------------
Kind of grudging admiration for the Pakis for shocking these guys. major ego damage for these imperialists. They need to change their worldview - allegiances shift daily in Asia (that is what they call duplicity)
A minor nitpick though - tirish bochhor na, chollish bochhor pore. And as Russell said - motherhood is a fact while fatherhood is a matter of opinion. Once we link this to Tikka Khan's (?) comment of changing the genetic make up of East Pak through..er.. involuntary semen transfer, one wonders how much of the west pak genetic material our friend Ramin the neutral observer is imbibing
I am not in favor of any trade with pakistan but now that we are going to then power export is good. At least lets make pakistan more and more India dependent.
free trade does not work that way, my friend.
i think (as a neutral person here) that both sides need to show maturity. I commend the Pakistanis and the indians not just for mutual trade concessions but also given the fact that they both won non-perm. seats @ the UNGA
just saying.
neutral person here ji,
If you lie down with dogs you WILL get up with fleas.
Ramin wrote:
i think (as a neutral person here) that both sides need to show maturity.
You can be neutral if you want, like eating poisonous mushrooms is a choice, not a necessity. However Pakistan does not deserve neutrality from me. They are a bunch of criminal, genocidal Islamic terrorists and need to be killed or subjugated.
We dont have surplus power generation as of now. So the power that MMS intends to export to his paki biraders will probably be at the expense of the common Indian. Kashmiris, ofcourse, cannot be subjected to power cuts, because they are the discriminated against, suffering minorities. Folks in Jammu can suffer power cuts, who cares, they are not kaangressi votebanks.
Just what does bakistan's MFN mean for us, why is it an earth-e-shattering event from an Indian pov? Also, we must constantly refer to MFN as "hindustan sabse pasandeeda mulk" again and again. The bakis have an allergy to this particular phrase.
Pakistan on Wednesday extended the Most Favoured Nation (MFN) status to India amid protests from jihadi outfits and the media. The decision was taken at the Cabinet meeting in which Commerce Secretary Zafar Mahmood set his Ministry's proposal in a historical perspective by pointing out that Pakistan had given MFN status to India during Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah's time.
Even as the decision was announced to the media at the Cabinet briefing, Information Minister Firdous Ashaq Awan and Mr. Mahmood were bombarded with questions on why MFN status was being granted to India when the Kashmir issue was yet to be resolved.
Maintaining that the move would not dilute Pakistan's position on Kashmir, the Minister pointed out that people were already engaged in trade across the Line of Control.
Admitting that Cabinet members raised questions about how the decision would impact the Kashmir cause, she said India and China had a flourishing trade despite territorial disputes.
Amid a volley of impassioned questions, Mr. Mahmood said India had granted MFN status to Pakistan in 1995 and World Trade Organisation (WTO) commitments mandated that Islamabad reciprocate.
Also, he clarified that the MFN status would not alter the Afghanistan-Pakistan Transit Trade Agreement that allows Afghan goods to cross over Pakistan into India and not vice versa.
At the same time, he added that Indian goods were allowed to move into Afghanistan over land through Pakistan between 1959 and 1965 as per an Af-Pak agreement.
‘Beneficial to Pakistan'
Quoting surveys that show MFN status to India as a move beneficial to Pakistan, he said both countries were committed to dismantling the non-tariff barriers (NTBs).
Asked if India had agreed to dismantle NTBs, he said both countries were in the process of doing so; adding that maintaining a positive list approach towards trade with India was in itself a NTB.
Pointing out that the Pakistani media tended to interpret MFN status in its literal sense, the Secretary said both countries had granted the status to each other after ratifying the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) in July 1948 despite the bloodletting of Partition less than a year ago.
This regime continued till 1965. Between 1947 and 1965, he said, Pakistan and India signed 12 trade agreements as per which four points for border trade were opened in Punjab, one each in Bahawalpur and Sindh besides a customs point on the Chenab river for timber trade.
Trading relations between the two countries resumed after the Shimla Agreement by putting four items on the positive list.
But, India moved ahead and granted MFN status to Pakistan in 1995 when WTO replaced GATT.
I say this as a neutral person here. You will need maturity on both sides to understand this.
Pakistanis are like a fat man who is farting loudly and stinking up the room Finally he wheezes and complains and goes to the toilet and comes back to tell everyone. "You should be grateful I didn't shit in your chair. My rheumatism is so painful I could hardly move to the toilet"
They need that MFN more than India but they act as if they are finding it very difficult to do that an that india should be grateful far that.
All members of WTO are entitled to be granted MFN status by all other members. So India granted Porkistan MFN status in 1995 but Porkistan being porkistan never reciprocated.
Arnab ji: Thanks for correcting my hasty math. Hope my Bengali was acceptable, as it is quite rusty. As for your comment, I expect most of the gene transfer by the WPakis to the BDs was quite deliberate and, on their part, quite voluntery. Perhaps Ramin is the right age to know such stuff.
it is my suggestion to Indian MEA that as we try to sell power to Pukis with 100% implicitly higher prices than what can be had in India, we give a 10% explicit discount towards goodwill for paki democracy or paki media and on a condition that on every TV channel, as the news readers come on, they mention...this news/program is sponsored and made possible by the generous power supply from India.
in Urdu..BURUR...sabse pehle hum Bharat ka shukriya ada karna chahenge jiski wajeh se yeh program aap tak aa raha hai ..nahin to aap wahan khuzarahe hote aur hum yahan
abhijitm wrote:
I am not in favor of any trade with pakistan but now that we are going to then power export is good. At least lets make pakistan more and more India dependent.
free trade does not work that way, my friend.
i think (as a neutral person here) that both sides need to show maturity. I commend the Pakistanis and the indians not just for mutual trade concessions but also given the fact that they both won non-perm. seats @ the UNGA
just saying.
hain, neutral person doing == here!
trades between countries are more complex than you can think of, my friend. And as for the non permanent seat in UNSC (not UNGA), its good for you, but we don't give a damn about it.
Ramin wrote:
i think (as a neutral person here) that both sides need to show maturity. I commend the Pakistanis and the indians not just for mutual trade concessions but also given the fact that they both won non-perm. seats @ the UNGA
just saying.
Oh, so a starving crocodile eats some grass in desperation, will he be considered 'Understanding' towards the Wilder-bee??? Hain Ji?
I am afraid the word 'neutrality' doesn't apply here. A real neutral person will see through the farce and the last grasp of a drowning whore....
shiv wrote:I say this as a neutral person here. You will need maturity on both sides to understand this.
Pakistanis are like a fat man who is farting loudly and stinking up the room Finally he wheezes and complains and goes to the toilet and comes back to tell everyone. "You should be grateful I didn't shit in your chair. My rheumatism is so painful I could hardly move to the toilet"
They need that MFN more than India but they act as if they are finding it very difficult to do that an that india should be grateful far that.
Last year when India offered help for their flood victims, the same a$$ole country treated us like they were doing some kind of favor on us by accepting the aid. What a commendable act that was!
I posted this before. The key thing the RAPE want is visa's , esp. long term ones. MFN status gives them that privilege esp. long term, non reporting , business visas. Massaland and Londonistan is too hot these days. They need a safe haven near by.
Almost 15 years after India granted the ‘Most Favoured Nation’ status to Pakistan, the latter has reciprocated. Pakistan accorded the status to India today. The move will liberalise bilateral trade relations and ease visa restrictions. That will boost the movement of professionals and exporters across the two countries.
Meanwhile, after the issuance of the commerce ministry statement when Dawn approached the information minister, she backtracked from her earlier announcement. Asked whether the cabinet had granted MFN status to India, she replied that the cabinet had granted approval to the secretary commerce to continue the trade normalisation talks with India.
“Commerce secretary cannot talk to India without the cabinet approval.” Ms Awan said the commerce secretary would meet
his Indian counterpart in India in mid-November to discuss ways to boost trade. “They will sign documents during the meeting,” she said but did not elaborate on the nature of the documents.
Meanwhile, responding to a supplementary question in the Senate, Minister for Commerce Amin Fahim said India had assured that it would support Pakistan in the World Trade Organisation for getting access to the European market. Mr Fahim, who did not inform the house about the cabinet proceedings whether it granted the MFN status to India or not, just referred to the one-time trade facility that the European Union announced last year for Pakistan to help the flood-affected people but that facility was blocked by India in January last.
After more than a year of flood why pakis still need special access to European market? to make more bucks, what else?
ISLAMABAD: In a meeting of interior ministers of the two countries held in Turkey on Wednesday, Pakistan and Afghanistan agreed to launch bio-metric system at their border from the last week of this month.
Islamabad has been urging Kabul to establish the system on its side of the border to check the illegal movement of Afghans across borders and to document people entering and exiting the two countries.
Interior Minister Rehman Malik and his Afghan counterpart Bismillah Muhammadi met in Istanbul on the sidelines of a key conference on Afghanistan. The two ministers decided to work jointly to control illegal border crossings and to eliminate terrorism.
“Pakistan desires peace and stability in Afghanistan which is linked to progress and prosperity in the region,” said a statement issued by his office in Islamabad on Wednesday.
Theo_Fidel wrote:I posted this before. The key thing the RAPE want is visa's , esp. long term ones. MFN status gives them that privilege esp. long term, non reporting , business visas. Massaland and Londonistan is too hot these days. They need a safe haven near by.
Islamabad: Pakistan may have granted Most Favoured Nation (MFN) status to India but stands by its stance on Kashmir, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told ministers in his cabinet.
According to Minister for Information and Broadcasting Firdous Ashiq Awan, Gilani had told the cabinet that Pakistan would always continue its support for the Kashmir cause and granting MFN status for India would not affect the national stance.
Awan said Indian goods are being smuggled into Pakistan, causing a loss to the national exchequer and Islamabad has legalised trade by giving India MFN status.
According to a think-tank, the country will save USD 800 million per annum in terms of trade with India, the minister added.
QUETTA - At least two FC men were killed and three others wounded in a remote-controlled bomb attack in Nasirabad area of Kech district Wednesday. Defunct Baloch Liberation Front claimed responsibility for the attack.
According to sources, an FC convoy was heading to Tump, a bordering town near Iran, from Turbat when explosives exploded, killing two personnel and injuring another three.
Meanwhile, explosive material planted with an electric pole on Samungli Road in Saddar Police limits, detonated. However, no damage was reported.
Anyone who thinks that granting MFN status is anything but a token gesture of zero significance to us needs to get his head examined.
Our gov is doing great dis-service to the nation by withdrawing its objections towards EU granting a quota to bakistan to export textiles in contravention of WTO guidelines as a way of rebuilding lives post last year's not so devastating floods. The forked tongue Bakis accuse India of being responsible for the floods and then come up with this ridiculous granting of MFN status as a confidence building measure. Well, take it and shove it Gilani and you can continue your unflinching support to cashmehere, that will hasten the phase during which Bakis will be left scraping deeper and deeper into their begging bowl.
>>i think (as a neutral person here) that both sides need to show maturity. I commend the Pakistanis and the indians not just for mutual trade concessions but also given the fact that they both won non-perm. seats @ the UNGA
There is a general tendency to confuse neutrality with objectivity. There is nothing great about neutrality, to suggest that you are "a neutral person here" does not imply anything specific, apart from the possibility that you are not likely to be affected by the outcome, which also means from the perspective of Indians (and Pakistanis for that matter), your position is irrelevant. To take an extreme example, "as a neutral person" (probably there too) where would your stand have been between the Nazis and the Jews/Gypsies. In fact, neutrality is often the option of the coward who is reluctant to take the objective position because then his interests might more likely be undermined.
I'm not calling you a coward, but suggesting merely that perhaps you have not considered the difference between neutrality and objectivity. The trouble is, though, that if you said "as an objective person here", you would probably face greater flak than you have so far, simply becaus any assessment of the objective reality based on facts (such as the number of terror attacks launched by the Pakistani establishment against Indian citizens, the fact that J&K has acceded to India, the fact that Pakistan has ethnically cleansed itself of Hindus/Christians/Jews and is now in the process of doing the same to the Ahmediyas and later probably the Shiites, and many more), will show there is really no case to make against the Indian position.
Whither then your objectivity? Claiming neutrality in such objective circumstances is probably more comfortable. By "neutrality", the equidistance you purport to maintain between Pakistan and India speaks to the fact that you are pro-Pakistan. I have no problem there, and you have a right to be pro-Pakistan, but perhaps some of the newbies on BR are not aware of the real meaning of "neutrality" in the geo-political context.
Or did you really mean to say that you are "an objective person here"? In that case, you will need to explain what you mean by "both sides need to show maturity" (starting with what you mean by "maturity" in the context of state behaviour).
During the worst times in Kashmir , the UK and US was also "neutral" no? They did not learn then.
They continue to be at the mercy of TSP for food, fuel and their lives in the last decade! And TSP has shafted them on all three! Still they did not learn.
Lookie lookie now.. After decades and thousands of lives and billions of dollars they get a aha moment. The fools who claimed neutrality learnt the hard way.
Just saying.
Oh and one more thing.
Bruce Riedel mentioned in the BBC program yesterday that the path TSP is taking poses a threat to Europe and Amreeka. No India there. Agreed....he speaks for NATO when he does that. But again the clowns that run the show there think they can get away with terror against India. The problem is, the monkey is on their back now. The protests in Pakistan against Amreeki drones and hegemony are more and has larger turnouts ...not seen so many against India. So as a neutral person in the fight between Amreekis and TSP, I say drones are bad! Amreekis should not be cowards and attack TSP jihadis with real soldiers on the ground. That is a real neutral fight and I as a neutral person strongly endorse this approach!
There couldn't have been a more appropriate venue than the old Byzantine capital on the Bosphorus to hold a regional conference on Afghanistan at the present juncture. The conference at Istanbul on Thursday carried an impressive title - "Security and Cooperation in the Heart of Asia". The "heart" had 14 chambers - Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, China, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, India, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
Hours after announcing that it would grant the much-delayed MFN (Most Favoured Nation) status to India, the Pakistan government on Thursday issued several confusing statements which made no direct mention of the significant step aimed at boosting bilateral trade.
Minister Firdous Ashiq Awan said at a crowded news conference on Wednesday that the federal Cabinet had unanimously approved a proposal to give India the 'Most Favoured Nation' status, statements issued by the government last night merely said the Cabinet had cleared a proposal for "normalisation of trade relations".
The statements made no mention of the Cabinet approving the Commerce Ministry's summary or proposal for giving India the MFN status, as had been announced by the Information Minister.
Significantly, Awan had announced that all stakeholders, including the powerful military, were "on board" for the move to give India the MFN status.
After the Cabinet meeting chaired by Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Awan's news conference, a statement issued by the Prime Minister's Secretariat late in the night said the Cabinet was "briefed on the steps being taken for normalisation of trade with India".
You have your views, but I feel that engaging such drones in a serious manner is a waste of your time. Because, if they were capable of seeing reason, they would not have been in such a mess to begin with.
A minor nitpick though - tirish bochhor na, chollish bochhor pore. And as Russell said - motherhood is a fact while fatherhood is a matter of opinion. Once we link this to Tikka Khan's (?) comment of changing the genetic make up of East Pak through..er.. involuntary semen transfer, one wonders how much of the west pak genetic material our friend Ramin the neutral observer is imbibing 
