Bharat Rakshak

Note the year for MFN! They are hoping they wont have to!

krisna wrote:Under pressure from all sides, Pakistani Taliban militant network splintering into factions

Battered by Pakistani military operations and U.S. drone strikes, the once-formidable Pakistani Taliban has splintered into more than 100 smaller factions, weakened and is running short of cash, according to security officials, analysts and tribesmen from the insurgent heartland.

Another factor is the divide-and-conquer strategy Pakistan’s military has long employed in its dealings with militants. Commanders have broken away from the TTP and set up their own factions, weakening the organization. Battles have broken out among the breakaway factions, ......

...... It might also explain a steady decline in suicide attacks in Pakistan, according to the privately run Pak Institute for Peace Studies.

The WP reporter is high on Roof Afzah or zam zam cola poured by Jalebi madam run PISS.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/08 ... n-to-work/
U.S. Expects Pakistani President Will Return to Work

ISLAMABAD -- Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says the U.S. expects Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari will return to his duties after receiving treatment related to a heart condition in a Dubai hospital.
Zardari was undergoing tests this week for the condition, triggering rumors that he may be stepping down citing ill health.The Pakistani president has been under pressure since the nation's ambassador to the U.S. was forced to resign amid allegations he sent a memo to Washington asking for its help in reining in Pakistan's powerful military.Clinton told reporters in Brussels Thursday the U.S. expects Zardari will receive the necessary treatment "and will be able to return in full health in his duties."

^^^ thats a signal from unkil to jarnail - don't mess with the plan

KLNMurthy wrote:

johneeG wrote:I think Army is not the only problem in pak. The root of the mess is corrupt and selfish elites. And a poisonous ideology.

Replacing a few individuals with others or replacing one Org.(like army) with another org. seems like a temporary fix and is unlikely to solve anything.

I hate to tell you--it is not the easily-maligned elite or a disembodied "ideology" but "the people" who are, by convention always deemed to be virtuous and innocent victims and have no culpability whatsoever.

This is better understood on brf than elsewhere but it bears emphasizing nevertheless.

I have no illusions or hopes of existence of 'silent moderate majority'. I dont agree with the classification of moderates or radicals either. I believe the ideology is vicious and all those who adhere to it are potentially dangerous.

Anyway, I feel that yatha raja thatha praja i.e. a state and elites can steer a society and cultivate the values. Therefore, the present crop of elites need to be dismantled because they are corrupt and self-serving.

Once the ideology and the elites are out of the way, then the praja(people) are malleable. Their present condition is not lost on me...

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ thats a signal from unkil to jarnail - don't mess with the plan

They gave similar signals to Gen. Mushy in 1999. The end result was his deputies staged the coup and installed him as CEO of TSP and later he made himself the President.

We had similar hopefull statements on the forum about how tough the US was on Paki jeranils after Kargil fiasco.

Ramana,

Yes the nuclear angle explains some kid glove stuff but TSP can not nuke the US mainland. Yes, material could fall in terrorist hands but when you consider the vast amounts of nuke material freely available in CAS the amount in Paki hands is limited. Atleast on the ground here in massaland people don't worry at all about the TSP nuke material. Never mentioned. They do worry about Jihadi's and live like another 9/11 is just around the corner.

Think about the harsh treatment of Iran, which has the material for several hundred dirty bombs, which is the US fear with Jihadis and TSP as well. Contrast that to the billions supplied freely. Panda can never replace that sort of sustenance. Panda is not into 'world peace'.

They want an unstable AfPak from which another strike will be difficult to organize.

ramana wrote:Note the year for MFN! They are hoping they wont have to!

Whatever happened to the EU waiver? Maybe India should offer to support the waiver decision starting in 2014 after they have a 'stable' civilian government.

These are my thoughts that even though we may huff and puff about GoIs (in)actions and compare it with Amirkhan's bold responses, the GoI might be taking TSP for a ride by paying platitudes and chai biskoot and taking on TSP on a different plane. Even though there are statements that come out - of meeting more than halfway, a stable TSP, man of peace etc., India has played cool.

If one notices the MFN issue, India could really care less about MFN status. This is a routine status and does not mean a preferential trading partner over other partners, but rather a parity amongst all MFN countries. But this has the Pakis in a twist with various groups battling one another and coming up with nonsensical statements. It is great that the TSPians in their hatred will cut off their nose to spite their face.

TSP suffers from a 'me-too' syndrome and blindly gets into competing with India. We just need to catalyze some spend areas and watch TSP descend into a desperate dance and infighting amongst its factions. From India's perspective, it would be better to not take on TSP militarily, but rather have them strangled by other means (like economic). Let TSP stew in its own poisonous brew.

Everyone seems to wonder why Pak terrorists are quick to line up for suicide attacks. Lets have a look at the evidence: No Christmas,No tv,No nude women,No football,No pork chops,No hotdogs, No burgers, No beer, No bacon, Rags for clothes, Towels for hats, Constant wailing from some asshole in a tower, More than one wife,More than one mother in law, You can't shave, Your wife can't shave, You can't wash off the smell of donkey, You cook over burning camel shit, Yr wife smells worse than your donkey.
Then they tell you "when you die, it all gets better"....!!

Season's Greetings to all BRF members.

The pakistani facade of "democratic" leadership is like a never ending loop where PMs and Presidents are not significant variables to end this loop. Will they ever be significant? I doubt it!!

SagarT wrote:Everyone seems to wonder why Pak terrorists are quick to line up for suicide attacks. Lets have a look at the evidence: No Christmas,No tv,No nude women,No football,No pork chops,No hotdogs, No burgers, No beer, No bacon, Rags for clothes, Towels for hats, Constant wailing from some asshole in a tower, More than one wife,More than one mother in law, You can't shave, Your wife can't shave, You can't wash off the smell of donkey, You cook over burning camel shit, Yr wife smells worse than your donkey.
Then they tell you "when you die, it all gets better"....!!

Season's Greetings to all BRF members.

krisna wrote:Most Favoured Nation status for India by October 2012: Pakistan

Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said "October next year is the timeframe which has been given" for granting MFN status to India.

So, why did our PM and his ministers jump up and down as though it was a done deal ?

SagarT wrote:Everyone seems to wonder why Pak terrorists are quick to line up for suicide attacks. Lets have a look at the evidence: No Christmas,No tv,No nude women,No football,No pork chops,No hotdogs, No burgers, No beer, No bacon, Rags for clothes, Towels for hats, Constant wailing from some asshole in a tower, More than one wife,More than one mother in law, You can't shave, Your wife can't shave, You can't wash off the smell of donkey, You cook over burning camel shit, Yr wife smells worse than your donkey.
Then they tell you "when you die, it all gets better"....!!

Season's Greetings to all BRF members.

Fabulous, thoroughly enjoyed it.

SagarT wrote:Everyone seems to wonder why Pak terrorists are quick to line up for suicide attacks. Lets have a look at the evidence: No Christmas,No tv,No nude women,No football,No pork chops,No hotdogs, No burgers, No beer, No bacon, Rags for clothes, Towels for hats, Constant wailing from some asshole in a tower, More than one wife,More than one mother in law, You can't shave, Your wife can't shave, You can't wash off the smell of donkey, You cook over burning camel shit, Yr wife smells worse than your donkey.
Then they tell you "when you die, it all gets better"....!!

Season's Greetings to all BRF members.

It is funny. But very American and can be applied just as easily to Indians. Especially the rags for clothes and towel for a hat and no meat (of any type), cooking over animal shit fit into a neat stereotype of "the other". As long as we sort of understand that it meant to be Ay-rab its funny - but it is a double edged "joke".

The joke stops being funny in a crisis when American ass is getting whupped somewhere and these joke tellers will take it out on Sikhs, saree wearers and vegetarians. It has happened in Britain and in the US as well.

SagarT wrote:Everyone seems to wonder why Pak terrorists are quick to line up for suicide attacks. Lets have a look at the evidence: No Christmas,No tv,No nude women,No football,No pork chops,No hotdogs, No burgers, No beer, No bacon, Rags for clothes, Towels for hats, Constant wailing from some asshole in a tower, More than one wife,More than one mother in law, You can't shave, Your wife can't shave, You can't wash off the smell of donkey, You cook over burning camel shit, Yr wife smells worse than your donkey.
Then they tell you "when you die, it all gets better"....!!

Season's Greetings to all BRF members.

Sagar too good dude. loved it.

Shiv, you do have some good points. I got this from somewhere. It does hurt us when Sikhs with turbans are attacked. They have been extremely brave soldiers for India.

Anyway, let us look at the lighter side of this and have a good laugh at the Pakis.

SagarT wrote:Shiv, you do have some good points. I got this from somewhere. It does hurt us when Sikhs with turbans are attacked. They have been extremely brave soldiers for India.

Anyway, let us look at the lighter side of this and have a good laugh at the Pakis.

No No it is actually very funny. But not a joke that can be shared in India among Indians except the most westernized bunch. The "wife can't shave" is particularly hurtful as facial hair (normal for all women) is more visible in Indian women, while the light coloured facial hair in white women is less noticeable. I have actually had second generation Indian kids (nephews) from the US ask why Indian women are so hairy and why they smell so much. I can't recall asking my mum and sisters that question.

Pakistan's Parliament to decide on contours of future ties with the US

I hope the Pakistani National Assembly sets really tough conditions for the Nasara nation that goes by the name of the USA. After all, the US needs Pakistan more than the other way around. Qaid-e-Azam has himself said so. Mash'a Allah.

Letter to the Editor: An Ally on Afghanistan

“Can Russia Help Us Withdraw From Afghanistan?,” by Dov S. Zakheim and Paul J. Saunders (Op-Ed, Dec. 2), argued that the United States should work more closely with Russia in Afghanistan. They are right on target.

America must end its irrational relationship with Pakistan, which is clearly in cahoots with the insurgents we have been fighting. An American-Russian alignment based on opposition to Islamic extremism would provide a common interest to underpin a positive reset of relations.

We also need to shift our stance toward India on the same basis. New Delhi is a friend and a potential ally. India is a democracy with security interests in line with ours against Pakistan, a radical Islamic terrorist state and an ally of a menacing China.

The writers argue that a northern route for Afghan supplies would be safer. It would also end the convoy-protection payments that NATO makes to Taliban-linked warlords, money that ends up buying weapons used against our troops in Afghanistan. This insanity must end.

DANA ROHRABACHER

The writer, a Republican of California, is chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations.

The Republican from California would make a good BRF member.

SSridhar wrote:Most Favoured Nation status for India by October 2012: Pakistan
Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said "October next year is the timeframe which has been given" for granting MFN status to India
So, why did our PM and his ministers jump up and down as though it was a done deal ?

It is a proof of how things are working in South Block. They are talking to wrong people in Pakistan and making policy decisions based on rumors and hearsay.
I can post in BRF,news or information I get from unnamed or unverified sources from my contacts in Balochistan or Sindhudesh. I get right some times but I would not make policy decisions based on it. Sadly, GoI is no better than me. Babus and some Cabinet members in GoI have some friendly contacts in Pakistan who gives information which proves to be correct many times but is not the right way to affect policy on Pakistan. No wonder we have no standard policy on Pakistan!

I think memogate is a way for pakjabi army to subvert the elected Baloch-Sindhi President. It has shades of Mujib ur Rehman being thwarted from becoming PM in 1971.

10% just escaped Mujib's fate by going for medical checkup in Dubai.

Its on verge of civil war.

Seven paramilitary soldiers injured in Karachi blast

KARACHI: A roadside blast struck a vehicle and wounded seven paramilitary soldiers in the southern city of Karachi, police said.

---

3 rangers killed in karachi blast

ramana wrote:
Its on verge of civil war.

Gas pipelines are being blown up in Sui sector. It is not making mainstream news. wonder why

Because its a smokeless harsh fire. Once grea$ing stops, the amount of friction increases as does the rapid tear down.

SSridhar wrote:I hope the Pakistani National Assembly sets really tough conditions for the Nasara nation that goes by the name of the USA. After all, the US needs Pakistan more than the other way around. Qaid-e-Azam has himself said so. Mash'a Allah.

It has been a long time since we heard a good fartwa from mullahs...it will be nice to have some big mullah issue a fartwa saying no relationship with the great satan and make it blasphemous. Anyone uttering relationship with unkil is wajeebul-cutlet. Taking aid from unkil is blasphemous and taking arms from unkil is blasphemous.

Pakistan should impose military and economic sanctions on the great satan US.

menon s wrote:

SagarT wrote:Everyone seems to wonder why Pak terrorists are quick to line up for suicide attacks. Lets have a look at the evidence: No Christmas,No tv,No nude women,No football,No pork chops,No hotdogs, No burgers, No beer, No bacon, Rags for clothes, Towels for hats, Constant wailing from some asshole in a tower, More than one wife,More than one mother in law, You can't shave, Your wife can't shave, You can't wash off the smell of donkey, You cook over burning camel shit, Yr wife smells worse than your donkey.
Then they tell you "when you die, it all gets better"....!!
Season's Greetings to all BRF members.

Happy Holidays to you sir !! By the beard of true Mullah, you have Judged them right except on the highlighted part .

shiv wrote:

SagarT wrote:Shiv, you do have some good points. I got this from somewhere. It does hurt us when Sikhs with turbans are attacked. They have been extremely brave soldiers for India.

Anyway, let us look at the lighter side of this and have a good laugh at the Pakis.

No No it is actually very funny. But not a joke that can be shared in India among Indians except the most westernized bunch. The "wife can't shave" is particularly hurtful as facial hair (normal for all women) is more visible in Indian women, while the light coloured facial hair in white women is less noticeable. I have actually had second generation Indian kids (nephews) from the US ask why Indian women are so hairy and why they smell so much. I can't recall asking my mum and sisters that question.

Shivji, I beg to differ. I am no cogniscenti of western women. As a physician, I examine a lot of women, here in the U.S. I find the main difference is how important women hold depilation, and there are a lot of cultural and soceital reasons to be hairless or not. Women or for that matter men smell in the west largely because of living in insular, unventilated homes( unexhausted kitchens) that conduce aggregation of smell from cooking etc into hair, skin & clothes. Or they do not bathe daily. I encounter light colored women who smell, and light colored and dark haired women who are just as hairy. S. E asian women are least hairy or smelly. Paki women are the smelliest and hairy, IMHO.

Bomb attack kills three soldiers in Karachi
http://www.dawn.com/2011/12/09/several- ... eport.html

KARACHI: Three soldiers were killed and four others wounded when a roadside bomb exploded near their vehicle in the country’s biggest city Karachi on Friday, police said.“Three troops from Pakistan rangers were killed and four were hurt, it was a remote control bomb,” Sharfuddin Memon, a spokesman for the home ministry in Sindh province told AFP.No group immediately claimed responsibility

Altair wrote:It is a proof of how things are working in South Block. They are talking to wrong people in Pakistan and making policy decisions based on rumors and hearsay.
I can post in BRF,news or information I get from unnamed or unverified sources from my contacts in Balochistan or Sindhudesh. I get right some times but I would not make policy decisions based on it. Sadly, GoI is no better than me. Babus and some Cabinet members in GoI have some friendly contacts in Pakistan who gives information which proves to be correct many times but is not the right way to affect policy on Pakistan. No wonder we have no standard policy on Pakistan!

If South Block does not have institutional memory, there is a serious problem. Pakistan has always dangled something to extract concessions and after getting what it wanted went back on its promise. The first such recorded instance was agreeing to paying seignorage charges for waters from the Madhopur headworks in 1948. This MFN business is the latest in that long list of broken promises. It was correctly predicted here to be a ruse to extract concessions, soften any blow on the demands for quickening the cooperation on the 26/11 issue etc. ahead of the SAARC meeting by Gilani with MMS. We withdrew our objection to EU's GSP+ privileges to Pakistan, gave multiple-entry, anywhere travel, long-term visas to Pakistanis, allowed opening their bank branches here, eased investment avenues etc. Even as it announced MFN in October, there was confusion over whether it has been indeed granted or not. This confusion was deliberately created by Pakistan, as it has done in every such issue. That was the perfidy. I can bet both my testimonials that this MFN would never happen. Pakistan even took the UN on a big ride over the issue of banning the JuD. Haven't we learnt anything at all ? As Einstein said and is often quoted these days, foolishness is that where we do the same thing over and over again expecting the result alone to be different.

atma wrote:
Shivji, I beg to differ. I am no cogniscenti of western women. As a physician, I examine a lot of women, here in the U.S. I find the main difference is how important women hold depilation, and there are a lot of cultural and soceital reasons to be hairless or not. Women or for that matter men smell in the west largely because of living in insular, unventilated homes( unexhausted kitchens) that conduce aggregation of smell from cooking etc into hair, skin & clothes. Or they do not bathe daily. I encounter light colored women who smell, and light colored and dark haired women who are just as hairy. S. E asian women are least hairy or smelly. Paki women are the smelliest and hairy, IMHO.

As doctors we are smelling stuff all the time and are acutely aware of smells and I think no one is as jihadi as doctors in actually sniffing at mouths, navels, pus soaked wounds, or backsides. Or even the whiff of warm piss and sweat soaked air that rises as a chaddi comes off.

What happens is that the use of scents/deodorants is more prevalent among certain groups and the absence of that or the presence of "different smells" as is often the case with older Indian women is translated into a borderline racist way of saying that they smell.

SSridhar wrote: I can bet both my testimonials that this MFN would never happen.

Hakim will hold you to that bet!

it seems to me the old ideological cold warriors of the 80s who loved to bread break with the pakis have either retired or been diminished from positions of influence. they could only see the world through prism of the bear, and hence created the paki and chinese monsters.

the kind of crticism of TSP thats been published lately would never have been allowed to happen in the good old days. all the apologists barring a isolated few have vacated the stage.

Shiv Gaaru & Atma Gaaru Started my day reading this thread and please, a Coffee Spill warning would've helped me. TSP thread saar. Hair, smell, navel etc can't stop laughing.

Zardari had stroke, facial paralysis: report - TOI

Zardari "collapsed in the Presidency" on Tuesday because of the stroke, the source claimed after official denials that Zardari had not had a heart attack.

The presidential spokesman had said yesterday that Zardari's condition was stable and that he would undergo more medical tests in Dubai.

The spokesman further said the President had been moved from the intensive care unit to a normal hospital room.

Zardari abruptly travelled to Dubai on Tuesday to undergo tests for what officials have described as a previously diagnosed "cardiovascular condition".

Its becoming quite interesting. Everyday a new theory. At least one thing is confirmed, Zardari will not go to Paikana in the near future.

shiv wrote:

SagarT wrote:Everyone seems to wonder why Pak terrorists are quick to line up for suicide attacks. Lets have a look at the evidence: No Christmas,No tv,No nude women,No football,No pork chops,No hotdogs, No burgers, No beer, No bacon, Rags for clothes, Towels for hats, Constant wailing from some asshole in a tower, More than one wife,More than one mother in law, You can't shave, Your wife can't shave, You can't wash off the smell of donkey, You cook over burning camel shit, Yr wife smells worse than your donkey.
Then they tell you "when you die, it all gets better"....!!

Season's Greetings to all BRF members.

But very American and can be applied just as easily to Indians. Especially the rags for clothes and towel for a hat and no meat (of any type)

Same thoughts. Infact, I didnt find it funny, because my mind was concentrating on the Amirkhans stereotyping 'others' as silly and their own culture as superior.

>>No Christmas,No tv,No nude women,No football,No pork chops,No hotdogs, No burgers, No beer, No bacon, Rags for clothes, Towels for hats.

All of these apply to most Indians. Most of these things apply to me or my culture, so I didnt find it funny.

The 'joke' seems to be suggesting that had all these things been there, there would have been no suicide bombers. Then, how does one explain this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Times ... al_Shahzad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

The above persons had access to all the above. And yet they took to terrorism.

The joke is carrying forward the myth that the root cause of terrorism is lack of 'education and economic welfare'. It has added another criteria: a 'liberal American christian culture'.

But that is far from true. Educational status or economic stature have nothing to do with terrorism. All the poor people or illiterates are not resorting to terrorism. If they had, then the world wouldnt exist because there are more poor people than rich in the world.

There are several people in the world who dont care for Christmas, TV, football, pork chops, hotdogs, burgers, beer, bacon,...etc. and yet do not involve themselves in terrorism.

The 'joke' is displaying complete lack of understanding.

For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_sho ... ted_States

A typical rural elderly Hindu Indian in India might comment on the above issues in following manner:
Everyone seems to wonder why the western societies produce such troubled minds. Lets have a look at the evidence: Christmas, tv, nude women, football, pork chops, hotdogs, burgers, beer, bacon, funny tight-fitting revealing attires, immodest wife, you have to shave and look feminine, while your wife wears pants, you are introduced to your father when you are 16, you cook over burning pig shit, Yr wife smells worse than your pig.

Jhujar wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/08 ... n-to-work/
U.S. Expects Pakistani President Will Return to Work

It is a signal that Zardari will not be going by himself; if the Paks want to get rid of him, they will need to take matters into their own hands.

What does the Pak constitution say about impeachment etc?

Pakistan Railways another landmark

Inefficiency at Pakistan Railways is not only causing heavy losses for the national exchequer besides tormenting domestic passengers, it is also affecting railways systems of other countries making them to wait for Pakistan Railways’ freight wagons for over a week.

The freight department of the Turkish State Railways (TCDD) has recently reminded the Pakistan Railways that an ECO freight train carrying iron is waiting for PR freight wagons to reach Zahedan since Nov 28th, 2011, according to a letter, which is available with The News, sent to Pakistan Railways.

Office staff of the secretary Railways told The News that Arif Azim will remain busy in a meeting from 9am to 9pm at a local five-star hotel. When this correspondent approached spokesman of the ministry of railways he said: “The cargo had reached Lahore as he has talked a minute earlier with the concerned official.”

It is interesting to mention that the ministry offices are situated less a mile away from the five-star hotel where all top brains of PR were busy in planning to spend recently released funds for the money-starved public sector firm.

ramana wrote:I think memogate is a way for pakjabi army to subvert the elected Baloch-Sindhi President. It has shades of Mujib ur Rehman being thwarted from becoming PM in 1971.

10% just escaped Mujib's fate by going for medical checkup in Dubai.

Its on verge of civil war.

Saar,
I think they have been on the verge of civil war from a long time back. 2001, about 30 yrs after 1971, seems the time when they were ready for another Caesarean. But people are hoping for a 'normal delivery' and are avoiding the intervention.

If India, the mid-wife, had not intervened and performed the Caesarean in 71, then even the East-Pakistan would continued to be 'on the verge of civil war' till today.

Pakistan will continue to stew in its poisonous juices. But to put them out of their misery(and do a favor to the world), someone must intervene.

Here is a relook at the other author's joke... the repost may be offensive to some again.. for various other reasons..

Everyone seems to wonder why Pak terrorists are quick to line up for suicide attacks. Lets have a look at the evidence: No Safe Diwali type festival, No reality tv (after all cameramen died in explosions), Your semi-nude women on your enemy's magazine covers, No international cricket, No pork chops, No Vadapavs, No halal burgers, No Kingfisher or even Murree beer, No bacon, TFTA Rags for clothes, Bathing Towels for hats, Constant wailing from some asshole in a tower, More than one wife, More than one mother in law, Exploding numbers of children, You can't shave your beard, Your wife can't shave elsewhere, You can't wash off the GUBO smell off the donkey, You may get cooked over burning camel shit, Yr donkey smells better than your wife.

Then they tell you "when you die, it all gets better"....!!

Season's Greetings to all BRF members.

I am sure that the Bengalis of former E.Pak looking at the state of matters in Pak today will look upon their sufferings in '71 as a blessing in disguise.Pak is doing very well just left to itself.The splintering of the entities that make up Pak,is inevitable.We can offer moral support to these poor unfortunates who are not Pakjabis,as overt support will bring the Pakis together to India-bash as is their wont.

At the moment,the "Great Satan",Amrik,as the late Ayatollah K described it,is public enenmy no.1.Let it so be.Let the two fornicators enjoy their lover's spats ,again and again.Our "soft" invasion of Bollywood,music maestros and other purveyors of our arts and culture,which brings to Paki hearts a nostalgia for the good old days of pre-Partition,is sufficient.Out task should also to be to wean as many of POK Kashmiris as possible, with a soft but secure border so that they elarn that the grass is indeed greener this side of the border when the gardener is an Indian!