Internal Security Watch

Keshav · Post by **Keshav** » 28 May 2009 03:20

Gerard wrote:Law commission likely to recommend ban on narco analysis test

About time. India is one of the few democratic countries that actually still use this.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 28 May 2009 05:43

x post

sunilUpa wrote:How Lashkar funded transnational terror campaign

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 28 May 2009 06:18

Mumbai terror trail leads to Muscat

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 28 May 2009 06:45

Law commission likely to recommend ban on narco analysis test

In a country, where policemen savagely beating accused in police custody is routine, and where accused spend years and decades as under-trail, why is Law Commission so humane about Truth Serum test? IS it because TS is a powerful truth to extract truth from Ministers, IAS, IPS, elitemen etc?

.

Keshav · Post by **Keshav** » 28 May 2009 20:52

Rahul Mehta wrote:In a country, where policemen savagely beating accused in police custody is routine, and where accused spend years and decades as under-trail, why is Law Commission so humane about Truth Serum test? IS it because TS is a powerful truth to extract truth from Ministers, IAS, IPS, elitemen etc?

It's not proven to be a fool proof truth serum, which is why many countries don't allow testimony under its influence in court.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 May 2009 21:02

Even in India its not allowed in court. What is happening is the police adminster the stuff to suspect and develop evidence based on the interrogation. This is useful when dealing with terrorists who are resistant to normal interrogations and need third degree which might result in spurious inofrmation being released.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 May 2009 21:59

It's not proven to be a fool proof truth serum, which is why many countries don't allow testimony under its influence in court.

Dont know about legality and all that stuff but the serum helped the Indian police a lot in the IM bombing cases etc (to get leads and not convictions)..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 May 2009 22:00

sum wrote:
It's not proven to be a fool proof truth serum, which is why many countries don't allow testimony under its influence in court.
Dont know about legality and all that stuff but the serum helped the Indian police a lot in the IM bombing cases etc (to get leads and not convictions)..

Thats my point and RM's point. Banning it now will deny a tool.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 May 2009 22:12

Ramana-ji,
Wherever the state is getting a edge and able to effectively counter something, expect jhollawalas/WKKs/NGOs/Liberal hearts to raise a hue and cry about how the practice in question is "uncivilised" etc....

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 28 May 2009 22:21

Rahul Mehta wrote:In a country, where policemen savagely beating accused in police custody is routine, and where accused spend years and decades as under-trail, why is Law Commission so humane about Truth Serum test?
.

RM jee true words onlee, but some time you should apply the same level of logic to your pet ideas too IMVHO etc.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 29 May 2009 02:58

Maharashtra police mulls over new plan to fight Naxals

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 29 May 2009 10:43

Rahul Mehta: In a country, where policemen savagely beating accused in police custody is routine, and where accused spend years and decades as under-trail, why is Law Commission so humane about Truth Serum test?

Sanku: RM jee true words onlee, but some time you should apply the same level of logic to your pet ideas too IMVHO etc.

Pls be specific.

The reason I support TS test is that while it is invalid in court and should be kept that way, people do have faith in TS test. In India, criminals with money get away. And people dont have faith in policemen. If a rich man is accused of crime, citizens have no way to know whether he is guilty or not as policemen are undependable. But citizens trust TS test. So if a Jury takes TS test and live telecast is done on TV, people will come to know the truth. Which is why, I have proposed a law, which creates a procedures where by TS tests can be taken on PM, CMs, Ministers, Police Chiefs, RBI Chiefs etc. Nbjprie are really scared as TS tests can get the "truth" out. Which is why they want ban on it. And as usual, they are using "human rights" issue to impose this ban.

How does this apply on laws I have proposed?

---------

sum wrote:Ramana-ji,
Wherever the state is getting a edge and able to effectively counter something, expect jhollawalas/WKKs/NGOs/Liberal hearts to raise a hue and cry about how the practice in question is "uncivilised" etc....

Sum,

Everyone in Nbjprie-dom, including BJP Ministers, are scared of TS tests. That test is blessing for commons and a doom on every Nbjprie of all colors - red, white, green and orange. Imagine if TS test is done on Modi and he is asked questions about 2002 riots or Tata-Nano deal or corruption in police, and imagine if this test is telecast live on DD !! And forget Modi, what if TS test is done on Sharad Pawar and if he is asked question on Telgi or Dawood !! Or imagine TS test on Ambani and his answers on taxes, SEZs, bribes he gave to Ministers etc. And imagine TS test on CPM MPs and answers on their getting money from KGB, China, CIA etc. So jholawala are only the frontsmen. The real people behind this proposed ban on TS test are all Nbjprie of all colors.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 29 May 2009 11:30

Keshav wrote:It's not proven to be a fool proof truth serum, which is why many countries don't allow testimony under its influence in court.

As many others pointed out. Truth Serum based information is not counted as evidence in Indian Courts of law. Just like a "confession" given by an accused in front of a police officer is not taken as solid proof in the courts of law.

Now then why do police bash up the accused or use the truth serum? That is to make the accused come up with some information using which police can collect further evidence. For example, one chap is accused of murder. The murder weapon could not be found. The police pick him up - thrashes him/uses truth serum. The accused says that he did commit the murder and threw the weapon into a ditch at xyz location. Police go there and recover the weapon. Now this weapon forms an evidence and using other means (finger prints, blood marks etc.) more evidence can be generated.

I feel that Truth Serum tests should be allowed and used in the same manner as of today.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 29 May 2009 13:00

^^^
Or leak regularly to media what they heard through TS test, as they did in Malegaon case.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 29 May 2009 13:07

The law commission report is reported to say that the prisoner's human rights are violated by administering truth serum. I think disallowing it by equating it to torture is the right thing to do. There is too much scope for abuse by the government otherwise.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 May 2009 13:17

Yes there are chances that it will give false results but then nothing is foolproof. This is perfectly OK to use this over other methods plus we do have criminals who can't be subjected to other methods of extracting truth.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 29 May 2009 13:43

IndraD wrote:Yes there are chances that it will give false results but then nothing is foolproof.

That is why it is not taken as a sacrosanct tool. It is only used to get some thing out of a person who is not cooperating with the investigating agencies. Guess soon police would have to rely on the good will of an accused and pray to god almighty that the accused will get guilty consciousness and confess his crime all by himself

. An over burdened police force, a group of citizens who expect quick and correct results (and exemplary punishments), and then we have such great plans

. Way to go...

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 29 May 2009 13:45

The problem is not the Narco test per say, the problem is that once Narco tests are done and then selective leaks done to the media who treat is as a confession. Case in point, one person stated Sadhvi Pragya and Col. Purohit are responsible to Samjuta blasts and hence pronounced guilty. I think any leaks or reporting of narco tests that must be banned. Such information is not admissable in Court. Police should only use it to obtain proper evidence.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 29 May 2009 13:52

Aditya_V wrote:Case in point, one person stated Sadhvi Pragya and Col. Purohit are responsible to Samjuta blasts and hence pronounced guilty. I think any leaks or reporting of narco tests that must be banned.

Yep, but here with this new idea we are actually throwing the baby along with the bathing water. In Cul.Purohit's case it was not Narco Analysis which was at fault, it was the agencies who conducted the test, and folks who had vested interests who did the trick (leaking news). A voyueristic media picked it up once, because they should not miss a chance to diss the Hindutva forces

. Bring in a legislation to ban these news media leaks, the whole thing should become a fair game.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 29 May 2009 13:53

Sachin wrote:
IndraD wrote:Yes there are chances that it will give false results but then nothing is foolproof.
That is why it is not taken as a sacrosanct tool. It is only used to get some thing out of a person who is not cooperating with the investigating agencies. Guess soon police would have to rely on the good will of an accused and pray to god almighty that the accused will get guilty consciousness and confess his crime all by himself . An over burdened police force, a group of citizens who expect quick and correct results (and exemplary punishments), and then we have such great plans . Way to go...

This is what happens when we have third world level police equipment and training, expect them to work in level of the developed countries. The plans will be based not on ground realties but on some psuedo-isms like human rightism etc etc.

They want the mumbai case to be solved yesterday, with all that Kasab asked to do is sit in a chair and given meals and tiffins at tax payer expense. Anything else is a human right violation.

Keshav, Vera_k and co,
Tell me any tool which will make persons like Kasab start talking (and remember the training and infrastructure we have), so multiply them by millions, giving 1 policeman for 100 cases and asking them to solve within a reasonable period of time (6 months), i.e. 100 cases per police in 6 months. Then I will give in to your human rightism stuff.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 29 May 2009 18:01

Aditya_V wrote:The problem is not the Narco test per say, the problem is that once Narco tests are done and then selective leaks done to the media who treat is as a confession. Case in point, one person stated Sadhvi Pragya and Col. Purohit are responsible to Samjuta blasts and hence pronounced guilty. I think any leaks or reporting of narco tests that must be banned. Such information is not admissable in Court. Police should only use it to obtain proper evidence.

Solution is to have TS test subject to live telecast and put ENTIRE recording on youtube.com . Also, 24 citizens chosen at random should be called to ask a question in following way : Divide the citizens into 2 groups A and B ; anyone in group A can draft a question and if over 6 in group B approve it , the TST administrator will ask that question. This way there will be regulation on nature of questions as well.

TST are must in many cases like

1. Rape : Put accused on TST, and if Jury decides also put complainer on TST. So that if woman is liar, TST will prove that innocent man will not rot.

2. Sexual harassment

3. 498A, DVA etc

4. All corruption, nepotism related allegations

TST is a powerful tool to prove innocence as well, and a powerful tool to prove that the complainer is a liar, if he/she is actually a liar. In addition, cases of nepotism and favoritism can be proved ONLY by TST and there is no other way known.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 29 May 2009 20:07

TST is a powerful tool to prove innocence

Of course its beside the point that no scientific analysis has proved that injecting a bunch of chemicals into a person results in "truth" being spit out.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 29 May 2009 20:11

Of course its beside the point that no scientific analysis has proved that injecting a bunch of chemicals into a person results in "truth" being spit out.

Good point.

Though injecting concentrated doses of crack or heroin into captured interrogation targets, get them firmly hooked before yanking the chains and gut-spilling was not unknown in the shady cloak-and-dagger circles in the cold war era - certainly not on the communist side, particularly in East Germany. How effective that was remains unknown though.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 31 May 2009 18:02

Bangalore blasts accused in Oman

Naveen Ammembala
First Published : 31 May 2009 03:57:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 31 May 2009 12:50:08 PM IST

BANGALORE: Ali Abdul Aziz Hooti, alias Ali, an accused in the Bangalore serial blasts, is said to have been detained by the Oman police.
Ali’s arrest could offer more clues about his friend Sarfaraz Nawaz, the mastermind of the Bangalore blasts, and Fahim Ansari whom Ali had sent to Pakistan for training; Ansari also did reccee work for Mumbai’s 7/11 attacks.
Sources in the Intelligence Bureau said that Hooti, originally from Kerala but now an Omani national, had provided monetary support to Sarfaraz Nawaz to carry out the blasts in Bangalore. After receiving the money, Sarfaraz came to Bangalore from Muscat, did a reccee in Bangalore with the main accused Naseer, alias Umar Haji, and handed over the money for explosives through Shanu Sattar.
Sarfaraz Nawaz, who was taken into custody by the Bangalore police with the help of R&AW, had close relations with Hooti; the IB now wants to question Hooti for further clues.
Sources said that Hooti, a trained LeT member looking after Oman region, earlier had links with Fahim Ansari. Ansari conducted the reccee in Mumbai’s Taj Hotel and CST before he was arrested in UP while planning to attack the CRPF camp in Rampur.
Sarfaraz had revealed that Jasimi alias Tahsin (35), a Pakistani and a friend of Hooti’s, had met him during November 2008, in Oman. Tahsin, a former LeT man, met Sarfaraz in Muscat and informed him about Jasim’s expulsion from the LeT.
Angered over the way trainees were being treated, Jasim and Hooti had discouraged Fahim from joining the training. However, Fahim went ahead and felt that both were wrong about the training. Sources said that Jasim was thrown out of LeT after Fahim reported the matter to the commanders.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 May 2009 18:06

12 kg. RDX, 334 explosive devices recovered near LoC

On a tip off, police and security forces unearthed a major militant hideout near LoC in Arie area of Mandal belt in the district and recovered 12 kg. RDX, 251 electronic detonators, 66 UBGL grenades, 4 Chinese grenades and 3 Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs).

Four bombs of 62 mm, a UBGL launcher, a pistol, 2 magazines, 18 rounds, 333 rounds of AK rifle, 2 magazines, 3 IED timers, 6 IED boxes, 15 metres of cordex wire and 6 Rocket Projectile Grenades (RPGs) were also recovered from the hideout, police said.

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 May 2009 19:43

Ali Abdul Aziz Hooti, alias Ali, an accused in the Bangalore serial blasts, is said to have been detained by the Oman police.
Ali’s arrest could offer more clues about his friend Sarfaraz Nawaz, the mastermind of the Bangalore blasts, and Fahim Ansari whom Ali had sent to Pakistan for training; Ansari also did reccee work for Mumbai’s 7/11 attacks.

Will Hooti also be sent over for some "friendly Indian hospitality"?

He also might be caught at the city market bus stand like Nawaz was supposed to have been caught(according to B'luru commissioner in his press conference).

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 May 2009 21:28

Meet India's Maoist MP behind bars

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Jun 2009 02:56

Suspected ISI agent held in Rajasthan

A suspected Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agent, who allegedly carried out printing work for the Indian Army, was arrested in Rajasthan’s Bikaner district on Sunday, a senior police official said. Mohammad Sajid, 29, a resident of Bilalganj at Lahore in Pakistan, was living in Bikaner, as a tenant under the assumed name of Lakhan Joshi since 2005, ADG (Intelligence) M.K. Devrajan said here.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Jun 2009 10:22

shyamd wrote:Sources in the Intelligence Bureau said that Hooti, originally from Kerala but now an Omani national

I don't know how correct this finding is. Does Oman allow people from other countries to become an Omani citizen? AFAIK none of the "Gelf" countries have such a provision in place. Infact if I am not mistaken in UAE non-citizens cannot even start a business without a local sponsor.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 01 Jun 2009 10:51

there is no such hard and fast rule sachin .. you can be a citizen if the ruler wishes, the process isn't institutionalized that's all.

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Jun 2009 13:40

Chinese brothers showing true colours

Top ULFA commander Paresh Baruah, who has been hiding in Bangladesh for many years now, is known to be in China for about a month now, intelligence agencies have told the government.

Highly placed government sources have told The Indian Express that Indian intelligence agencies have been able to intercept Baruah’s mobile phone as well as satellite phone conversations from China and are also aware of his precise location in that country.

Though there is no clarity on the reason for his visit, sources said Baruah, head of the military wing of the United Liberation Front of Asom, might have travelled to China in the hope of procuring some arms for his organisation whose avowed aim is to liberate Assam from India.

Baruah is known to have travelled to Bangkok and Pakistan in the past but this is probably his first visit to China.

His China visit comes at a time when the Awami League government under Sheikh Hasina has initiated a crackdown on the cadres of ULFA and many other Indian insurgent groups who have taken shelter in Bangladesh. Observers say Bangladesh under the Awami League — it took charge in December last year after a gap of more than seven years — is now becoming increasingly inhospitable for these groups which had been using it as a safe haven.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 01 Jun 2009 18:51

Mob burns a station, two trains; order against halt withdrawn
http://www.dailypioneer.com/180073/Mob- ... drawn.html

Angry villagers on Monday torched six rail bogies and a station near here protesting against the cancellation of stoppage of a train following which Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee withdrew the order against the halt and set up a departmental inquiry.

Thousands of villagers, perturbed over withdrawal of stoppage of the Rajgir-New Delhi Shramjivi Express at Khusrupur, ransacked and torched the station and six bogies of two trains, and uprooted tracks under Danapur division, about 32 kms from here.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jun 2009 19:07

burning three trains is not the right way to get anything done. railway minister is always
on the lookout for votes and merely blocking the tracks would have sufficed to get their point
across if at all they wanted to break the law.

I am afraid the bar has been so maladjusted in india that unless you kill 10 people and burn a few buses your protest is not deemed successful.

James B · Post by **James B** » 01 Jun 2009 19:30

Singha wrote: I am afraid the bar has been so maladjusted in india that unless you kill 10 people and burn a few buses your protest is not deemed successful.

It is also stoked by the fact that the demands will not be heeded unless such extreme things are done, which, by the way, is true. Have politicians ever took cognizance of peaceful protests and took the necessary action that the protestors has asked for, may be very few.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 02 Jun 2009 01:29

Misinformation, says Mamata

Denying any move to withdraw halts for express trains at Khusrupur in Bihar, Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee on Monday said such a report was “a deliberate act of a political personality for political gains.”

archan · Post by **archan** » 02 Jun 2009 01:53

Over 150 'highly paid' agents of Dawood Ibrahim operating in Bangladesh

More than 150 "highly paid agents" have been working in Bangladesh for underworld don Dawood Ibrahim and his aide Chhota Shakil manages their payment, an intelligence official has revealed after last week's arrest of Bollywood music baron Gulshan Kumar's killer.

archan · Post by **archan** » 02 Jun 2009 01:55

Gerard wrote:Misinformation, says Mamata
Denying any move to withdraw halts for express trains at Khusrupur in Bihar, Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee on Monday said such a report was “a deliberate act of a political personality for political gains.”

On the train burning issue. It is so convenient that Lalu ji is now lecturing Nitish on the issue. I don't get good vibes from that man. Meanwhile:
link

"The train should stop wherever people demand and if that does not happen, we will repeat this," said a protestor.

Shockingly, the police just stood by, alongside the mob. Nobody was arrested at Khusrupur, close to Patna. Soon, another train nearby, was also set on fire.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 02 Jun 2009 15:10

Evangelical threat to internal security:

In the main story of a magazine ( called Charisma ) named "Gawd's moment for India", various church movements and personalities like John Dayal and Dalit freedom Network are discussed. Here is the link. Apologies if posted.

This is page 26. Click 'next' and read until page 33, then continued on page 58

http://mydigitalpublication.com/publica ... 92&29&p=29

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 02 Jun 2009 17:06

archan wrote:The train should stop wherever people demand and if that does not happen, we will repeat this," said a protestor.

I was sincerely hoping that some day the person from Bihar would improve, and believe in law and order. Looks like that is not going to happen any where in the near future

. If this is the attitude of citizens of Bihar, how do you expect any other state to tolerate them? This protestor just confirms the age old truth that in Bihar railways is taken as a family property of every Bihari citizen. Pulling chains to stop where ever they want, attacking TTEs doing their duty all these are now getting a valid legal status in this state

.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Jun 2009 17:19

The attack in Bihar was not a people's attack -- there is news emerging that this was orchestrated by certain quarters to embarrass Mamata and Nitish.