Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Mar 2010 18:35

Much of the article by NS is almost comical in its absurdity. I will take, for instance, only this snippet:

"Indians must discover their inner Pakistani."

The Pakistanis bloody well better hope that we do not, for then the real Pakistan will be knee deep in blood...

Ah, I see A_Gupta was faster to the draw...

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 20 Mar 2010 18:51

Note of dissent to the "thread consensus' cliam : in my own previous post on this thread, I have only objected to the hypothesis that post USA withdrawal, some kind of inner conflict between the PA and Talebs - because of supposed PA "betrayal" of the Taleb cause - can creat opportunities for India. Specifically I simply counterposed that (1) such a conflict is unlikely (2) that an ideologically motivated core of regular-PA+irregular-Taleb will form which will dispense with all other opposition (3) USA will support this combination and reveive the PA leadership as it will go back to army "strongmen" concept - and first signs would be a possible extension of term to Kayanai or a new role for Musharraf (4) that now it was too late for any strategic covert military understanding with Iran because of US intervention and it had to be now through a mediator like Russia.

This should not be usurped into a "consensus" that the GOI or its figurehead could not do anything anyway. That is simply not true. There were plenty of things to do if GOI had a long term clarity of purpose about what to do with POWI. To have that clarity of purpose, it needed to have a clear understanding of the nature of the ideology that drives POWI. Economics as the sole driver of state intent is a naive understanding of politics and a blunder of self-delusion. Even if economics reigns supreme, "profit" and "mode of obtaining that profit" need not mean the same thing for India and POGWI.

It is not the GOI or its "visionary" leadership, the hordes of parasites who profit from the odd and rare changers of paradigms - vilified, controversial, dictatorial, undemocratic individuals like IG or PVNSR, or even a brief regime led by the only "loony fringe" on Indian soil, the "H**** right wing", who are impotenta nd have no options. They have no options because they have no vision, no understanding of what they are dealing with in the form of POWI. Particular historical momentum and continuity has continued to return them to power and they have dragged the nation along with their mediocrety.

If anyone is impotent here it is we who are discussing this in endless and fruitless cycles on an internet forum. This is also a political reality. The forces of appeasing Islamism and fear of non-Islamic cultural consolidation with attendant erasure of the fissures which can be used by puny manipulators to carve out niches of power are still strong. Only their inaction and clouded judgements will eventually bring the whole structure down and be washed away in the ensuing destruction, and we have to wait for that historical moment to seize initiative again. Once that happens POWI is caput - one of those mirages of history surviving only in archaeological refugia.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Mar 2010 19:04

...Indians must discover their inner Pakistani...

I flush my inner pa'astan every morning after a stiff cup of ginger chai. Keeps me going for rest of the day.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 20 Mar 2010 19:06

Looks like inner Pakistani has joined the BRF lexicon along with other unforgettable terms such as Musharraf....and there is a close link between the two

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Mar 2010 19:25

>>>I flush my inner pa'astan every morning after a stiff cup of ginger chai.

u guys are bloody unbelievable...
Damn right it's going into the BRF lexicon!!!

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 20 Mar 2010 19:29

anupmisra,

Accurate assessment of inner pakistani in all of us....

JEM,
inner pakistani....can you believe this?... do these idiots stop to read the banality they write

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Mar 2010 19:30

SSridhar wrote:Ms. Nirupama Subramanian, The Hindu's correspondent in Islamabad, packs her bags and returns to India.From her reminiscences …………………..

From the article:

“We eat the same food, speak the same language, we even look the same, so why can't we be friends?”

Pardon my ignorance

. I did not know that Indian’s native to areas such as Maharashtra, Goa, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Orissa, Bengal, Assam, Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland etc ate the same food or spoke the same language or looked similar to those in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Mar 2010 19:34

RR,

There is a good reason why, apart from PTI, the "Hindu" is the only broadsheet given permission to be based in Pakisatan. Imagine the taller than mountan, deeper than ocean confidence they have in that paper's policies to allow that - despite it's name.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 20 Mar 2010 19:36

If there is a thread consensus, nay even a forum consensus, on what "inner pakistani" means as defined by anupmisra, that is one consensus that I will happily champion about....

JEM
quite true quite true

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Mar 2010 19:40

Arun,

That's the wannabee Pakjabi in Nirupama speaking...

Last time I saw a mallu from my neck of the woods trying to "eat the same food", it did not last more than two meals, after which he promptly reverted to type, yelping "appo, enike ende thayrusaadam ilyandae pattila"

NS, who clearly will understand what I'm talking about, is clearly and simply playing to the gallery of both sides.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 20 Mar 2010 19:45

arun wrote: From the article:

“We eat the same food, speak the same language, we even look the same, so why can't we be friends?”
Pardon my ignorance . I did not know that Indian’s native to areas such as Maharashtra, Goa, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Orissa, Bengal, Assam, Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland etc ate the same food or spoke the same language or looked similar to those in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Oh oh! There is a saying that one can tell about onself based on knowing the friends one keeps. But such naivette from a "seasoned professional"

either reeks of spin out of control that spin is now liberally used even against Indians and oneself, or worse if that is the actual level of comprehension.
If the above stated criteria as; food, language and looks are the basis of friendship; rather than on behavior or intent, then one gets not only the friend one deserves, but also the enemy.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 20 Mar 2010 19:53

I flush my inner pa'astan every morning after a stiff cup of ginger chai

And yet it reappears everyday.

I'm sure there's a symbolism there somewhere.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 20 Mar 2010 19:53

India, 'allies' using LeT mantra to blur Pak gains

By: Sikander Shaheen(shrill's mini-me aka shrill in pants)

ISLAMABAD – After Pakistan has successfully tracked down top brass of Al-Qaeda leaving little for Indo-Afghan camps to target Pakistan on every count of criticism, the Western bloc following historical Indian legacy regarding Pakistan - blurring the achievements and highlighting the otherwise - has altogether lobbied to wake up to India’s call to cast aspersions on Pakistan’s capabilities and intentions.

On the other hand, Ackerman’s led committee that thoroughly projected Indian version did not utter a word about terrorism in Pakistan sponsored by Indian terrorist camps in Afghanistan. Ackerman is known as a mouthpiece of India in the diplomatic circles and his connections with Indians out of political and financial motives are well known.(Nutty nation to english translation: He's a JEW!!!)

India’s newly found ‘obsession’ about banned militant outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), with allied powers at its back, has surfaced at a time when Pakistan not the India is worst affected by terrorism.
General Petraeus is so obsessed with ‘Pakistan phobia’ these days that he had to utter last Tuesday that any terrorist attack in India would re-ignite Indo-Pak tensions. However, the General deliberately dodged commenting if the situation turned vice versa. He preferred to keep his lips tight to series of India-sponsored deadly attacks that took so many lives in Pakistan of late.

Taking advantage of the floating tide, Hamid Karzai along with the ever foul-mouthed Indians and Americans, joined the bandwagon in speculating Pakistan’s intentions and expressed his ‘anger’, as reported in foreign media, on the arrest of Mullah Baradar. Under the prevailing pretext, his anger sounds quite a ‘pertinent move’ to further undermine Pakistan’s role.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 20 Mar 2010 19:57

EVer since shrill's taken over...nutty nation has been extra nutty...even by TSP standards..

India intensifying proxy war in Afghanistan

By: Ashraf Javed (sikander shaheen wannabe)

LAHORE – In the wake of recent spate of violent attacks and unrest fanned by foreign-sponsored elements across the country particularly in Balochistan and FATA, the security sources have warned that Pakistan must remain prepared to brace for waves of terrorism likely to buffet the hinterland in the days to follow, as India plans to intensify ‘proxy war’ in neighbouring Afghanistan.
Well-placed sources(i.e. HIS ASS..which is well placed wrt his head) disclosed to this reporter on Friday that New Delhi is intensifying ‘proxy war’ in Afghanistan to destabilise its nuclear-armed neighbour.
‘The top officer of the Indian Military Intelligence accompanied by several leading intelligence operatives visited Kabul in the recent past. The delegation also went to Charikar in Parwan province of Afghanistan, where a large number of Baloch dissidents are receiving training. The DG Military Intelligence of India witnessed the training along with the delegation’, the sources said.

According to well-informed sources, during January 2010 Indian Army’s Director General Military Intelligence (DGMI), accompanied by some senior intelligence officers visited Kabul.
A surprising aspect of the visit was the presence of over a dozen MOSSAD operatives, who accompanied the Indian delegation during their visit to Charikar in Parwan Province where a large number of Baloch dissidents are receiving training. The visit was facilitated by the Afghan Intelligence Chief who remained present during delegations’ interaction with Kabul-based officials of Israel and few other countries as well.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Mar 2010 20:07

Ok - asking a rhetorical question in the mood of "thread consenus".

If thread consensus is that it is bad to ally with the US,in what way have Pakistan, Japan, South Korea and even China suffered by bandwagoning ad forming some sort of anti-someone else-alliance with the US?

s far as I can tell it sounds like allying with the US is the way to development (Japan, China, SoKo) and "shatruvinaash-ment" (Pakhanastaan).

All comments will be read with eagerness

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Mar 2010 20:11

Nadeem Paracha hits a sixer!

In my opinion, this may qualify for one of the permanent links in the first post of this thread, of "Know Your Pakistan".

He even points out Madrasa math (even though this is the manifesto of the young, urban, middle-class Pakistani:

20. As Zardari loots and pillages Pakistan via the nefarious use of his handle bar moustache and cheery demeanour, we have to appreciate how our Taliban investment is saving our economy by killing thousands of our citizens and costing billions of dollars in damages and lost investment and trade opportunities. We are a financially and arithmetically gifted segment of society that can expand US $66 million to $1,500 million if it means that we can lynch Zardari (and free Aafia).

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 20 Mar 2010 20:29

shiv wrote:Ok - asking a rhetorical question in the mood of "thread consenus".

If thread consensus is that it is bad to ally with the US,in what way have Pakistan, Japan, South Korea and even China suffered by bandwagoning ad forming some sort of anti-someone else-alliance with the US?

s far as I can tell it sounds like allying with the US is the way to development (Japan, China, SoKo) and "shatruvinaash-ment" (Pakhanastaan).

All comments will be read with eagerness

I dont even dare to tell you something shiv saar, but here are my two cents.
As it was said on Orbat.com, if you respect yourself, US respects you. If you dont, it makes you a punchbag, like it has made India. Though we can say that Pak is US's w**re and all, there is no denying that they've made a fool of US and have extracted a lot of goodies meanwhile.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Mar 2010 20:34

Regarding the inner Pakistani, Nirupama Subramanian starts off with :

“There is a Pakistani in every Indian; and an Indian in every Pakistani,” President Asif Ali Zardari famously said two years ago.

Anyway, the thing Ms. N.S. and others don't realize is that what keeps India and Pakistan apart, despite supposedly common DNA, culture, cuisine, language, music, and geography, is a very different conception of politics - I mean the formal and informal arrangements that are used to settle public issues among a huge set of competing interests. Ms. N.S. and others like her would respond, what is the difference, politics on both sides is equally corrupt. And they'd be utterly missing the point. Nadeem Paracha touches on some key points in his manifesto of the young, urban, middle-class Pakistani. How many points of that manifesto mirror the manifesto of the young, urban, middle-class Indian? Where is the common ground?

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 20 Mar 2010 20:41

SSridhar wrote: Indians must discover their inner Pakistani.

I discover my inner Pakis every day at 7.45AM.

Just when we thought that the BR glossary has plateaued, and every Pakistaniat known to man has been described therein, here comes this absolute gem, a marvellous piece of ethereal poetry. Only 6 small words, but what potential, what power! I have tears in my eyes just gazing in awe at this Shakespearian edifice...sorry, more later, got to run, more inner Pakis are demanding discovery...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Mar 2010 20:49

The w*ore suddenly raises the price
It now demands 35 B USD and a nuclear deal similar to India's.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 20 Mar 2010 20:52

What's this, an Aman ki assa fallout or something more innocuous? [from a kanchan gupta tweet]
http://twitter.com/KanchanGupta

Eastern Railways ad shows Dilli in Pakistan and Kolkata in Bay of Bengal. Global warming impact being predicted?

munna · Post by **munna** » 20 Mar 2010 21:01

shiv wrote:Ok - asking a rhetorical question in the mood of "thread consenus".

If thread consensus is that it is bad to ally with the US,in what way have Pakistan, Japan, South Korea and even China suffered by bandwagoning ad forming some sort of anti-someone else-alliance with the US?

s far as I can tell it sounds like allying with the US is the way to development (Japan, China, SoKo) and "shatruvinaash-ment" (Pakhanastaan).

All comments will be read with eagerness

Shivji the inherent assumption that dictated 2001-10 India's strategic bear hug with unkill is well represented by the underlined segment from your post. All the countries mentioned in your list provided unkill a foothold or leverage against their neighbours. China brought a "damage the Soviets" policy to the table, Pakistan brought "damage a socialist India" to the table, South Korea brought "damage a communist N Korea" to the table and Japan virtually became a US garrison in the Pacific after the WW II loss. What do we have in the same league to provide? Damage China as enunciated by some? Fat chance in the era of G-2

In all the examples you gave unkill allies had a comparative advantage of delivering something to unkill that was not in supply from anywhere else. India has none and it won't develop one until we all agree to make India a protectorate of unkill.
India is at daggers drawn with most of traditional US allies outside of Europe and the systemic composition of our political elite makes them universally suspicious of unkil. Apart from some very powerful elements in INC and BJP unkil is not overtly supported by most political players and for good reasons. An alliance with unkill is not possible on two counts

1) Relative power of US is on the decline and hence benefits of strategic entente for India are subject to diminishing marginal returns. Don't expect to benefit as handsomely as a China or South Korea
2) Systemic make-up of our political elite does not allow for a set-up subservient to other capitals. We are too chaotic to enable a command and control type single window set-up for unkil

JMTP

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Mar 2010 21:03

We have now seen an ad with the PAF Chief's pix appearing alongside the Indian PM in an ad released by Woman & Child Development Ministry of GoI. Yesterday, the Punjab Police displayed the Indian Punjab Police Logo in their ad. Today, we have this by the Eastern Railways.

I am not too sure if these are goof-ups as they claim or some deliberate ploy as part of the Aman programme funded by the US. They look too coincidental for comfort.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 20 Mar 2010 21:10

shiv wrote:Ok - asking a rhetorical question in the mood of "thread consenus".

If thread consensus is that it is bad to ally with the US,in what way have Pakistan, Japan, South Korea and even China suffered by bandwagoning ad forming some sort of anti-someone else-alliance with the US?

s far as I can tell it sounds like allying with the US is the way to development (Japan, China, SoKo) and "shatruvinaash-ment" (Pakhanastaan).

All comments will be read with eagerness

Shiv,
For me allying with the US is not a bad idea at all. We can ally with them when it suits our national interest. When it does not it need not pariticipate in US ventures. Many of the allies of the US do that. There is no need to become the most favourite ally - Already UQ and Pakistan are competing for this postion and a host of other wannabes.

In this case of easing pressure of Pakistan so that it meets with US geo political objectives in the region, brings with it definite costs to us - in terms of Indian lives, in terms of the time it will take for us to achieve our economic objectives, in terms of internal balance in India. What does it bring in terms of benefits? So far, nuke deal (albeit strings attached and not operationalised), improved intelligence sharing (?) FBI help in Mumbai case, better acceptance of bollywood, nice words about India and its leadership, larger investment (questionable, but let us take it that it is true for the sake of argument) in FDI, C130 aircraft,Copenhagen statement (if u call it a benefit), "India is a soft super power with great leaders statements" from obama and hilary, what else... i am sure we can think of something, if we think hard.

So, yes we may get benefits from allying with the US on many issues but not in supporting the survival of pakistan. At the least we need not help pakistan survive. Let the US do that.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Mar 2010 21:21

SSridhar wrote: Ms. Subramanian does not realize that the 'narrow vision' of the Indian state has never preached hatred for Pakistan on the basis of their religion. Not even on the basis of untold atrocities that they have committed against India. It is totally unfair to talk about Pakistan and India in the same breath on state-manufactured hatred and history.

I can bet you, her IQ numbers are at best the same number it would take to express room temperature in Celcius.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Mar 2010 21:22

>>if you respect yourself, US respects you.

1. Why should the US respect us, if we respect ourselves?
2. Why do we need it's respect (whatever TF that means)?
3. What actually does "respect" mean in relationships between nations, and what is its value?
4. What does "respect" have to do with "net gain" from any engagement, with whomever?

I suspect the answer to the above questions is: (1) there's no real reason for it to do so; (2) we don't unless you really can't live without that pat on the back from (insert your favourite prejudescription here); (3) nothing really; (4) not a whole lot.

Awaiting enlightenment; moderately please, lest it tickle Musharraf into wakefulness and stir my inner Pakistani.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Mar 2010 21:38

JE Menon:

Its not a question of begging US respect; although given that Americans dominate every sphere of human endeavour (both good and bad) and that too by a huge margin, being endowed with their respect is not all that bad

.

But I guess what Raja Ram and others like me are saying is that US will take the path of least resistence in securing its interests. Now, we have a govt in India that has mortgaged India's dealing with TSP to US. Here is the simple equation. US has interests in "South Asia". India is the status quo power. TSP wants to change the status quo. So when India tells US that TSP is using terror, US says sure we'll talk to Pakis, but you keep your end of the bargain and change the status quo in TSP's favor. Thus, India has to define this status quop clearly and put some muscle behind it, US will respect it. And this means a clear cut (no aman ki asha and willing to walk the extra mile crap) articulation that TSP is a terrorist state and responding forcefully to TSP's provocations. US must get the message that its war on terror and India's war in terror is the same battle. And the status quo as far as India is concerned is treating TSP as a normal state once it escews terror as an instrument of state policy.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 20 Mar 2010 21:46

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 706539.cms

WASHINGTON: Pakistan is coming up with a bill of $ 35 billion for its efforts in the war on terror and a wish-list that includes a nuclear deal similar to the US-India agreement as it prepares to engage Washington this coming week in what officials from both sides say is the most comprehensive dialogue in their bilateral history.

Turning the US mantra that Pakistan should "do more" in the war on terror, Pakistani officials, in an aggressive turnaround, have said Pakistan has done enough and it is now the United States turn to do more, as they set off to Washington for talks on the heels of what they claim is unprecedented success against the Taliban.

Pakistan has "captured" nearly half the top Taliban leadership, including the organisation's No.2 Mullah Baradar, in recent weeks in the run-up to the talks. Although U.N and Afghan officials accuse the Pakistanis, who were hosting the Taliban leadership, took them in to sabotage peace talks being held outside Islamabad's patronage, U.S officials said on Friday that they were "gratified" by the arrests.

"We are extremely gratified... he is where he belongs," the Obama administration's Af-Pak envoy Richard Holbrooke said about Baradar's arrest by Pakistan as he previewed the upcoming talks with reporters at the State Department on Friday, adding, "And many other people have been picked up or eliminated, and this is putting much more pressure on the Taliban. And this is a good thing for the simplest of reasons: It is good for the military efforts that are underway in Afghanistan."

Holbrooke also endorsed a central role for the Pakistani military at the talks, asking "how can you have a strategic dialogue without including the military?" In a move that has caused some disquiet in Pakistan itself, the country's army chief Pervez Ashfaq Kiyani and spy chief Ahmed Shuja Pasha are members of the delegation, ostensibly led by Pakistan's foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi. Kiyani is said to have set the agenda for the talks in preparatory meetings in Pakistan.

"If we have a strategic dialogue in our country, we're going to include the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff or some other representative. So we are very pleased that General Kayani is part of this delegation. We think that it's one country, one government, one team. It was their decision and we welcomed it," Holbrooke said. Washington in recent weeks has noticeably cooled down its criticism of the over-arching role played by the Pakistan military in the country's affairs.

Pakistan's wish-list for the Obama administration includes not only speeding up disbursements in bilateral aid under the Kerry-Lugar package and Coalition Support Funds, both of which are audited for more precise use and claim, but enhanced support for its economy, particularly in the energy sector. Vast swathes of the country are now under 8 to 12 hour power cuts and Islamabad is presenting this as one reason why Washington should offer a civilian nuclear deal to Pakistan similar to the US-India deal, although experts say Pakistan has no capacity to absorb or implement such an agreement even if it were to pass international scrutiny.

US officials remain non-committal about the deal. "We have a very broad and complex agenda in these talks... and we're going to listen carefully to whatever the Pakistanis say," Holbrooke said cautiously when asked about a possible nuclear deal. In fact, no one in Washington takes Pakistan $ 35 billion claim as its total cost in the war on terror arrived at during internal deliberations in Islamabad last week, seriously.

But Holbrooke held out the prospect of enhanced aid in other areas and sectors, promising a few surprise announcements. "This is not a photo op, although you will have an opportunity to take a photo. This is an intense, serious dialogue bilaterally between the US. and Pakistan," he said in a hurried briefing at the state department that followed a White House meeting of principals where, Holbrooke said, -- "almost every senior person in the United States foreign policy community was in the room" to discuss US policy for the region.

Pakistan too is striving to broad-base its ties with the US on the same lines as India's expansive engagement, covering sector beyond security. Indicative of the broad agenda for the March 24 talks, the Pakistani delegation led by Foreign Miniser Qureshi includes Minister of Defense Mukhtar Ahmad, Finance Minister nominee Abdul Shaikh, Advisor to the Prime Minister on Social Issues Wazir Ali; Advisor to the Prime Minister on Agriculture and Water Majidullah; the Chief of Staff of the Army General Kayani and his delegation of military advisors; Ambassador Hussain Haqqani; Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir; and Secretaries of Information Technology, Water and Power, Finance, Agriculture, Defense, among others.

The US delegation, led by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton includes Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mullen, Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack, Deputy Secretary of State Jack Lew, Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Neal Wolin, National Security Council Senior Director David Lipton, Deputy U.S. Trade Representative Marantis, the Administrator of USAID Raj Shah, myself, Ambassador Anne Patterson and Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy Judith McHale, Under Secretary of Defense Michele Flournoy and Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense David Sydney, among others.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 20 Mar 2010 21:55

^^^^^ more "benefits" for India allying with the US perhaps?

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 20 Mar 2010 22:21

The old man next door was having problems with his inner pakistan. It was diarrhea like. The doctor concluded there was too much acidity in the stomach. So, he prescribed Esomeparazole Magnesium 40mg / day. Now, the old man has normal inner pakistan.

I just wanted to use the newly learned phrase in a paragraph. Thanks you Anup Misra for your invaluable contribution towards English language!

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 20 Mar 2010 22:29

http://jayhind.buzzintown.com/full-episodes/episode58-4

its a phucking laugh riot... good that the thinking is clear on internet at least, if not on tv channels....

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 20 Mar 2010 22:42

Article in Newsweek by Zakaria:
A Victory for Obama From an unlikely quarter—Pakistan]

..there is a place where Barack Obama's foreign policy is working, and one that is crucial to U.S. national security—Pakistan....

There has been a spate of good news coming out of that complicated country, which has long promised to take action against Islamic militants but rarely done so. (The reason: Pakistan has used many of these same militants to destabilize its traditional foe, India, and to gain influence in Afghanistan.) Over the past few months, the Pakistani military has engaged in serious and successful operations in the militant havens of Swat, Malakand, South Waziristan, and Bajaur. Some of these areas are badlands where no Pakistani government has been able to establish its writ, so the achievement is all the more important.
....
Some caveats: most of the Taliban who have been captured are small fish, and the Pakistani military has a history of "catching and releasing" terrorists so that they can impress Americans but still maintain their ties with the militants. But there does seem to be a shift in Pakistani behavior. Why it's taken place and how it might continue is a case study in the nature and limits of foreign-policy successes.

....(Some more specific examples of results etc,,,)

These results are still tentative. Pakistan's military retains its obsession with India—how else to justify a vast budget in a small, poor nation? It has still not acted seriously against any of the major militant groups active against Afghanistan, India, or the United States. The Afghan Taliban, the Haqqani group, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and many smaller groups all operate with impunity within Pakistan. But the Pakistani military is doing more than it has before, and that counts as success in the world of foreign policy.

Such success will endure only if the Obama administration keeps at it. There are some who believe that Pakistan has changed its basic strategy and now understands that it should cut its ties to these groups altogether. Strangely this naive view is held by the U.S. military, whose top brass have spent so many hours with their counterparts in Islamabad that they've gone native. It's up to Obama and his team to remind the generals that pressing Pakistan is a lot like running on a treadmill. If you stop, you move backward, and, most likely, you fall down.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 20 Mar 2010 22:44

JE Menon wrote:>>if you respect yourself, US respects you.

1. Why should the US respect us, if we respect ourselves?
2. Why do we need it's respect (whatever TF that means)?
3. What actually does "respect" mean in relationships between nations, and what is its value?
4. What does "respect" have to do with "net gain" from any engagement, with whomever?

I suspect the answer to the above questions is: (1) there's no real reason for it to do so; (2) we don't unless you really can't live without that pat on the back from (insert your favourite prejudescription here); (3) nothing really; (4) not a whole lot.

Awaiting enlightenment; moderately please, lest it tickle Musharraf into wakefulness and stir my inner Pakistani.

I dont think that statement meant 'respect' in literal sense. It was more along the lines that if you take care of your interests well enough, US will have to think before screwing you. These days it seems that India has conceded and just doing whatever US orders. In return, US screws India even further.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Mar 2010 22:53

Singapore Airlines closes all operations in volatile Pak

Lahore: Singapore Airlines (SIA) has closed its operations in Pakistan due to the deteriorating security condition in the country.

According to a private television channel, the airlines, which had four flights a week from Pakistan to Singapore, has closed its offices and sacked its entire staff, The Daily Times reports.

Several multi-national companies (MNCs) have stopped their operations in Pakistan, which has seen a considerable increase in violence and bloodshed over the past two years.

The troubled nation has seen an unprecedented rise in the number of suicide attacks carried out across the country and loss of life during the first 70 days of 2010 compared to the same period last year.

According to the available facts and figures, at least 15 incidents of suicide bombings have taken place so far in the first 70 days of this year (between January 01 and March 12), while 11 assaults were carried out in first 70 days of 2009.

The suicide bombings in 2010 have left 321 people dead and injured over 500, with the daily average killing rate of four and a half people and the weekly killing rate of 10 people.

During the same period in 2009, 105 people were killed. The year had proved to be the bloodiest as at least 1,217 people were killed and 2,305 injured in 80 attacks.

According to the data compiled by the Punjab Home Department, 145 people were killed in five incidents of suicide bombings in January this year; another 101 people lost their lives in seven such attacks in February while 75 people have so far been killed in the first 12 days of March.

Authorities investigating the bombings are of the view that most of the attacks have been carried out by the Punjabi Taliban belonging to four Jihadi groups working in tandem with the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Mar 2010 23:23

Acharya wrote: Lahore: Singapore Airlines (SIA) has closed its operations in Pakistan due to the deteriorating security condition in the country.

We are close to the anniversary of an event to do with Pakistan and Singapore Airlines. It has nothing to do with the current closure of operations. Still, worth remembering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_ ... Flight_117

On March 26, 1991, Singapore Airlines Flight 117 was hijacked by four male passengers, claiming to be Pakistanis. After demands were not met, the hijackers threatened to begin killing hostages. Soon after, commandos stormed the plane, freeing all hostages unhurt and killing the four men.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 21 Mar 2010 00:11

A_Gupta wrote:
Acharya wrote: Lahore: Singapore Airlines (SIA) has closed its operations in Pakistan due to the deteriorating security condition in the country.
We are close to the anniversary of an event to do with Pakistan and Singapore Airlines. It has nothing to do with the current closure of operations. Still, worth remembering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_ ... Flight_117

On March 26, 1991, Singapore Airlines Flight 117 was hijacked by four male passengers, claiming to be Pakistanis. After demands were not met, the hijackers threatened to begin killing hostages. Soon after, commandos stormed the plane, freeing all hostages unhurt and killing the four men.

Whenever I read about incidents like these, can't help but recall 'Kashmir de de, kucchh bhi de do' and the whole episode. Its a shame that while watching 'Zameen' I had to recall what Israel did and what India could.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Mar 2010 00:26

Raja Ram wrote:If there is a thread consensus, nay even a forum consensus, on what "inner pakistani" means as defined by anupmisra, that is one consensus that I will happily champion about....

JEM
quite true quite true

Then why do Paki complain that we sending Inner Pakistani down the river toward Pakhanaland?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Mar 2010 00:45

Regarding the "alliance with USA" question, I proposed a certain "business deal" on 16th March here on this thread. I have had some most interesting queries from "usual suspects". My private discussions [after I also wrote about it elsewhere] with academics who serve as "eyes" and ears indicates that such a line need not be that "loony" for the other side. "Other" side is simply not sure of the real intention/determination from Indian side, and how far politically strong any regime in India will be to carry the programme out. So the political process to have such a regime needs to be started. The actual response to such "business deals" coming from a determined and competent GOI, could be quite surprising.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 21 Mar 2010 00:48

Using the word "Pakistan" for the morning call of nature is a common expression in (Indian) Punjabi. Not new at all.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 21 Mar 2010 00:49

In our own interests, it is up to us, the people, to find ways to do this. For now, Khuda Hafiz Pakistan.

Again from the silly article. Well, the eloquent writer praised the bakistan to be taller than mountain and claimed the overwhelming love showered on her.
A rhetorical question onlee? But some not so inquiring minds want to know, did any of the so called warm friends in her circle ever wrote a nice send off reciprocating her "Khuda Hafiz Pakistan" by "pranams/namskar come again" or atleast "dhanyavad come back soon"? atleast in private, if not in public? Never seen any from the jihadi establishment including the aman ki tamsha journalistic thugs from Bakistan.
Without such reciprocation it resembles a feeble mind expressing pyar to a ----- (please fill in the expletive as appropriate).