Telangana Monitor

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 06 Jan 2010 02:31

Chidambarams, Gandhis, Pranabs, MMSs need to know if they instigate a section to scratch 1956 state formation, the other section will have to scratch 1952 state formations. Creating intra-state imbroglio will have ramifications in inter-state dealings. Where will it end.

Congress should stop instigating Telenganavadis they in turn should stop brainwashing their people with hatred towards other people. Congress and Telenganavadis seem to think threats and violence will achieve the separation. They should be aware of goons from Rayala seema area are capable of bombing operations in Hyderabad as happened in Paritala case.

Pranab made good statement today that without consensus there won't be seperation. It is time Telenganavadis learn start loving non-Telengana people

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2010 03:38

Why is the politicsparty guy after CM Rosiah? His constant refrain is to get rid of him.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 06 Jan 2010 03:39

Telangana State Demand Built on a Platform of Lies
http://www.myteluguroots.com/chapter_19.html

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Jan 2010 03:45

ShyamSP wrote:Telangana State Demand Built on a Platform of Lies
http://www.myteluguroots.com/chapter_19.html

As I present Telugu’s history with great pride in this book, I feel that it is important for me to underscore that I firmly believe in the integrity of the Republic of India and that the nation’s broader interests will always supersede the states’ interests.

The concept of linguistic states is under threat in our nation. What most people seem to forget is that the early apprehensions of linguistic states as harmful to the country’s integrity have been proved wrong. If anything, linguistic states have only strengthened the republic.

I am a Bharatiya Janata Party supporter. However, I do not agree with the party’s support to dividing our state. The thinking that weak states will strengthen the central authority, in my opinion, is an unproven myth that will only ruin the thousands-of-years-old rich cultural identity of linguistic states, such as Karnataka, Kerala, Maharashtra, Tamilnadu, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh (A.P.), Orissa, and West Bengal.

Readers will also notice that I profusely praise the Communist Party in its fight against the Nizam. However, I urge readers not to construe this as my support for Communist or Socialist philosophy. I believe in capitalism, and I am aware of the havoc Communism has wreaked on millions of people worldwide. Yet, one cannot discount the grassroots movement the Communist Party built against the Nizam’s atrocious rule in Telangana. In my opinion, the movement in Nizam Telangana had little to do with Communist philosophy and more to do with ending the Nizam’s tyrannical feudal rule.

I also devoted many sections of the book to atrocities committed by the Muslim rulers in India. I hope that the readers do not construe my criticism of Muslim rulers as against the religion or its people. I firmly believe in religious freedom and every person’s right to choose the faith of his or her choice. I know little about Islam and, hence, do not have an opinion about the religion. However, I do detest the jihadist militant version of Islam continuing to hurt India after a thousand years since the invasions from across the border began.

Lastly, as the book is about Telugu roots, I thought it important to provide a brief background of myself. My native place is a small village in the district of Nalgonda. My father worked for the state government and had to relocate from one town to another every few years because of government rules. As a child, I spent time in Devarakonda, Thungathurthi, Suryapeta, and Nalgonda. When I was five years old, my parents sent me to live with my grandparents in Hyderabad. I used to visit my parents during the winter and summer holidays. After finishing my bachelor’s degree in 1993, I came to the United States in pursuit of higher education. Since then, I have made the U.S. my home. I currently live with my wife and two children in New York.

Writing is a hobby of mine, though I do not write for a living. In the past, I wrote articles for international students at the University of Hawai. Later, when I was a student at the Columbia Business School, I wrote for the school newspaper Bottom Line. I have also written articles for the A.P. state BJP’s paper. I now occasionally write notes on Facebook on conservative viewpoints. The decision to write this book happened inadvertently. When the controversy around a separate state reached a feverish pitch in our state, I wanted to learn more about how the regional differences within our state came about. The more I learned about our past, the more determined I grew to share what I learned with fellow Telugus. As I wrote the book, I made an effort to keep the presentation simple and concise to reach a broad spectrum of the Telugu audience. I hope the readers will find this work informative and interesting.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 06 Jan 2010 04:10

ShyamSP wrote:Telangana State Demand Built on a Platform of Lies
http://www.myteluguroots.com/chapter_19.html

There is a lot of very important information/statistics in the following 2 reports that fully supports the assertions made in the blog.

Human Development Report (AP) 2007
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19838475/Huma ... todown=pdf
(Check the appendix-III of report starting from page 208. It conclusively shows there is not much difference between Telangana and the rest of AP and in fact Telengana has better in many aspects).

Food Security in Andhra Pradesh
http://dspace.vidyanidhi.org.in:8080/ds ... 1806-4.pdf
(Check Pages 40-42. Very Very revealing statistics)

The whole logic that Telangana is exploited, backward and economy/agriculture/industry is shrinking is a myth. If lack of Development is their main concern, Rayalaseema has better claim over Telanagana to be a separate state.

When I get time, I will try to summarize these this weekend. If anyone has time, please give it a shot.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2010 04:18

So it confirms the overall picture in the Undavilli table?

Get volunteers to read and complie using Google docs if needed.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 06 Jan 2010 04:31

ShyamSP wrote:Chidambarams, Gandhis, Pranabs, MMSs need to know if they instigate a section to scratch 1956 state formation, the other section will have to scratch 1952 state formations. Creating intra-state imbroglio will have ramifications in inter-state dealings. Where will it end.

Congress should stop instigating Telenganavadis they in turn should stop brainwashing their people with hatred towards other people. Congress and Telenganavadis seem to think threats and violence will achieve the separation. They should be aware of goons from Rayala seema area are capable of bombing operations in Hyderabad as happened in Paritala case.

Pranab made good statement today that without consensus there won't be seperation. It is time Telenganavadis learn start loving non-Telengana people

Y. Rama Krishnudu clearly said to Chidambaram if you put mechanism for state separation, put it for all states including Tamilnadu where PMK is asking for separation

(Well they lit the Hanuman's tail, you know what Hanuman did)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whpPRQD4eko (in Telugu)

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 06 Jan 2010 04:55

I think it's time hardcore T-ideologues to start collecting a million dollars to transfer (by money2india) to KCR's account so that he can build an air-conditioned 3rd Floor in the T-Bhavan (in Jubilee Hills) and an additional annexe to the T-Bhavan. KCR needs to do this so that he can carry on the T-movement with more gusto. Chhaa, what a waste of T-NRI money. They could as well have used their hardearned money in their villages about which they are so concerned. Instead they put it all in this guy's hands, and KCR rewrites the rags to riches story.

Also, KCR can use the money to buy a few more Audi SUVs, Honda CRVs (vehicles he uses to get around the city as of now) and may be even BMWs.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2010 04:57

Dont get personal with our BR members. Please restate your message. Also I don't want any triumphalism amongst our members. Its a sad matter and has to be resolved/treated with care and understanding.

Thanks.

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 06 Jan 2010 05:05

Sarma wrote:ramana garu, this 1/3rd I refer to are the real movers and shakers of the Telangana region. They are the erstwhile XXX and YYY. Just see how the T movement is dominated by two gruops.
......
Of course, the elite can whip up mass frenzy and make it look like a mass movement.

I know KCR doesn't belong to either XXX or YYY groups mentioned above. In any case, why couldn't these guys join the mainstream and sing love songs with others?

- Didn't they get the share of Hyd real estate pie?
- Do they want it all for themselves and not share with other influential groups from Rayalaseema/Costa?
- Or is it something more chronic?

Maybe somebody who have the Telangana POV can help!!

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Jan 2010 05:20

ramana wrote:Also I dont want any triumphialism amongst our members. Its a sad matter and has to be resolved/treated with care and understanding.

Thanks ramana garu. It is one thing to educate and tell Telangana folks we are all same and we have blood relations and hence after 60 years of association it is not in either's interests for a split. The ones who are especially proposing United AP should not see the common Telanganite as enemy. Off cource bashing KCR is fine.

We also need to understand that inspite of growth of prosperity and other parameters, Telugus as a community still failed to remove the Takleef of the population that was enslaved under Nizam.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Jan 2010 05:26

ShyamSP wrote:Telangana State Demand Built on a Platform of Lies
http://www.myteluguroots.com/chapter_19.html

Excellento... You should have posted this couple of days ago.

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 06 Jan 2010 05:33

Muppalla wrote: We also need to understand that inspite of growth of prosperity and other parameters, Telugus as a community still failed to remove the Takleef of the population that was enslaved under Nizam.

I second that.

The necessary next step (no matter where this goes) is to intensify investments in other parts.

What we see is a same symptom of disparity that we talk about in relation to haves/have-nots, except, here it is between cities. Have nots (Telangana/Costa/Rayalaseema) are struggling for the spoils of haves (hyd).

Other development centers need to come up, leaving politicians happy in their local stomping grounds kicking and fleecing the rest. This will also possibly attract Telangana folks to other parts allowing greater appreciation for rest of the state.

----------

About the my telugu roots link.. quite informative.. I guess for those who are looking past the rhetoric its all right there.. Here are two comments I would like to quote from that blog, pg 15/16.

Doesn’t Vice Chancellor Jayashankar, the brains behind the Telangana movement, know something this basic? Of course, he does. In his quest to incite the Telangana people against other regions, he probably believes that hiding the truth is a necessary evil.
.......
The backwardness of Telangana is a legacy of Nizam’s atrocious rule. Instead of highlighting this fact, so-called intellectuals such as Jayashankar and demagogues such as KCR sing the praises of Nizam and take glee in demonizing their own people.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Jan 2010 07:04

teluguroots author has put an amazing statistics. As someone wanted Telangana with Hyderabad and excluding Hyderabad, he fulfilled the wish. By the way he is BJP ideolouge and dedicated his book to Indira Gandhi.

This guy is from Nalgonda Dt (Telangana) and on Facebook. Here is his note:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=231978047615

Telugu tribe today stands at a crossroads. Next few months will decide the fate of our race. Unfortunately, the people of our state have little say in these vital decisions. Our future today rests with the leaders at the center, and opportunistic separatist politicians of our state. The leaders at the center neither understand our history nor have any interest in protecting our race. On the other hand, the separatist politicians neither have facts nor history on their side. They therefore are holding the people of our great state hostage with the threat of violence.

Our future today looks bleak. However, I believe we can change the tide, if the good people of our state rise up against this atrocity being committed by the separatist politicians. There were many instances in our history when Telugus fought back from the brink of extinction.

After the demise of the Satavahana Empire, Telugu country was in a state of utter disarray. From nowhere came a king named Rudradeva, ruler of a small principality of Warangal. With the consummation of Kakatiya Empire, he achieved something that was till then deemed impossible. Rudradeva united the Telugu country that disintegrated after the demise of the Satavahana Empire.

Delhi’s formidable Muslim army occupied entire India. During this process Tuglaq mercilessly destroyed the Kakatiya Empire. When things looked bleak for Telugus, a common soldier named Krishna Nayak from Musunuru, raised an army and dared to achieve something no other Indian king could achieve. The brave Krishna Nayak drove away Tuglaq out of Telugu land and took back Sultanpur i.e., Warangal.

Then there is Vijayanagara Empire, founded by two brothers from Warangal- Harihara and Bukka. The legendary duo consolidated entire South India under their rule. When northern India was besieged by invaders that came from across the border, Harihara and Bukka built an empire that acted as an impregnable wall against the invading armies. They protected the entire South India including today’s Andhra Pradesh, Tamilnadu, Karnataka, and Kerala. During these battles, millions of our forefathers sacrificed their lives - sometimes losing half a million men in a single war. Despite these monumental losses, our forefathers refused to give in to the enemy. What inspired them to make such sacrifices? There can’t be any other reason, but to protect our culture, our heritage, our history, and our identity.

My friends- Telugu people are capable of rising up even when backed into a corner. If history is any guide, we should be optimistic. My recently published book- “My Telugu Roots: Telangana State Demand – A Bhasmasura Wish” delves into the details of our glorious past. My Telugu Roots goes through many aspects of our medieval and modern history in the context of current demands for a separate state.

In many of the debates occurring over the separation of our state, there is a lack of statistical data to respond to allegations of regional discrimination. I have put the entire Chapter 19: “Telangana State Demand Built on a Platform of Lies” online. You will find comprehensive statistical data in a simplified format to help you with your arguments for unification.

The current so-called student movement is a mere repetition of 1969, when politicians used high school and college students for their selfish ends. Learning about the Jai Telangana movement of 1969 is crucial to put the current violence into context. Please find the entire chapter 17: “Jai Telangana- Chenna Reddy versus Indira Gandhi“, online at my website.

I will be writing regularly on the crisis in our state. Join me on my website at http://www.myteluguroots.com, or on my facebook page and twitter at the links given below. Please share my website link with your friends and family.

SAVE ANDHRA PRADESH!

Nalamotu Chakravarthy
http://www.facebook.com/people/@/226703252445
http://twitter.com/nalamotu

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2010 07:20

Muppalla wrote:
ramana wrote:Also I dont want any triumphialism amongst our members. Its a sad matter and has to be resolved/treated with care and understanding.
Thanks ramana garu. It is one thing to educate and tell Telangana folks we are all same and we have blood relations and hence after 60 years of association it is not in either's interests for a split. The ones who are especially proposing United AP should not see the common Telanganite as enemy. Off course bashing KCR is fine.

We also need to understand that inspite of growth of prosperity and other parameters, Telugus as a community still failed to remove the Takleef of the population that was enslaved under Nizam.

How else can it be. BTW no bashing KCR also as he is just a player. Criticize those who held the real power.

Also we need to address the real issues and not those tossed at us. The real issues are prosperity and stake in the entire state. We should go the next level of development and urbanize the gramams to bring jobs there.

BTW, reading about Kapayya/Musnuru Nayaka made my hair stand up. What a yoddha!!!
All my knowledge of Telugu is from prompts by ShyamSP. Isn't it odd that after linguistic reorganization, Andhra Pradesh did not get named after its principal identity? Real shortsightedness.

We should call it Telugu Rashtram.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 06 Jan 2010 07:45

milindc wrote:Look at the following harebrained project and waste of Taxpayer money .
The Devadula project lifts water from 10m and in phase III will transport it to 400+M elevation so that the irrigation canals can be fed using gravity.

Total of 9,100 crore will be spent to irrigate 6.2 lakh acres. The cost of irrigating an acre of land will be 1.5 lakh per acre. Apart from 1.5 lakh per acre sunk-in cost, according to one estimate it will cost Rs.8000 per acre to irrigate. (The ongoing cost will entail 384MW of power to pump the water over that elevation and also the maintenance of the system.)
I tend to believe that return on agriculture output will be less than Rs.8000 per year.
Note that the water will be pumped only for about 270 days.

Trial run of Devadula Phase II successful
As part of the trial, water was drawn from the river at Gangaram through the intake structure and sent into the second pipeline of the 9,100-crore prestigious Devadula project which has been laid parallel to the first pipeline (Phase I) up to Dharmasagaram reservoir that lies 125 km away near Warangal.
The only silver-lining is that it will provide drinking water to lot of urban and rural areas in the region.

Lift irrigation in India, which is highly energy deficient country, is terrible idea and only reason a neta-babu will support it is for corruption. Lift should be done for drinking water only, but all water connections must be meterized to the lowest level so that wastage reduces.

One legislation I propose is EAS (Equal Allowance System) over Waters, in which every person will get have equal stake over waters in the region and he can allocate it to the user he wants and get cash for it. The description of the EAS over Underground Water is http://rahulmehta.com/eas01.htm and draft is at http://rahulmehta.com/eas01.htm#a_0009 . The EAS over Dam Waters is similar. This system will enable the users in AP region to use water, and money will go to people in Telangana, and using 100% market methods. Once that happens, no one in Telangana would insist on lift irrigation.

But alas !! In a nation where educated people vehemently oppose discussing legislations and drafts to solve problems, and insist on ideological, historical, psychological discussions only with 10 varied perceptions, such proposals are of no use.

. After all, if labeling Telies as dhimmies or blaming everything on Tamil elitemen or cursing AP wealthies can solve problem, why bother with details of legislations !!

.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 06 Jan 2010 07:57

ShyamSP wrote:Way out first is to educate people of Telengana it is their own political leaders and hidden players failed them not Andhra people.

Who did you vote/support in last election? Let me see if those guys are any less corrupt, nepotic. And
if you support corrupt, nepotic people, you still want to blame other corrupt, nepotic people?

Care to explain what upper middle class of AP did to reduce the loot, corruption, nepotism etc of the neta-babu-judges from Andhra region? What laws did the try to promote to reduce the loot and nepotism? True that some people say 2% to 3% did try their best. But what the rest? They just made fun of everyone who was trying to promote laws to reduce loot, corruption and nepotism.

As far as I see, some individuals in upper middle class of costa do care. They do want to promote laws to reduce loot, nepotism to reduce. But they are barely 2% to 3% . The rest only want to make fun of people who are trying promote this law. So yes, costa upper middle class people MUST try to "educate people of Telengana it is their own political leaders and hidden players failed them not Andhra people." But if they are honest, they should also speak another truth about themselves. That ..

1. we will NEVER ever promote any law to stop this loot, nepotism.
2. we will always make fun of everyone who is promoting laws to reduce bribery, loot and nepotism.
3. we will always support leaders who promote laws that promotes corruption, nepotism
4. you know, you all Telies are dhimmies

And so forth. IOW, it is time upper middle class of costa gives information about themselves along with corrupt Teli leaders.

Someone: ... just imagine BJP at Center, as you were hoping earlier this year

There you go. I really did not see any desire to reduce the miseries of people in Telangana or rest of the India. Just replace one bunch of corrupt, nepotic leaders of Congress with equally corrupt, nepotic BJP leaders. And then you want commons to pacify.

===

Many moons ago, in the middle of WW2, Churchill told his secretaries that he will need to shorten the meeting on war affairs, because he wanted to spend more time in the next meeting which was about increasing funds for courts. The secretaries asked if the courts were of so much importance in the middle of devastating war. And Churchill replied "if there is no justice, people will see no reason to fight for". Churchill was bad for India, and so I will never praise him. But the statement shows that he did understand politics, something which most "educated" people in India dont. The Telangana strife shows complete failure of economy, complete failure of justice system etc and despite this, very few "educated" people want to attend these chronic problems. All they can think of if cooking own khichadi while state is on fire. This what I call "convert crisis into opportunity".

.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 06 Jan 2010 08:16

Rahul Mehta wrote:
Lift irrigation in India, which is highly energy deficient country, is terrible idea and only reason a neta-babu will support it is for corruption. Lift should be done for drinking water only, but all water connections must be meterized to the lowest level so that wastage reduces.

One legislation I propose is EAS (Equal Allowance System) over Waters, in which every person will get have equal stake over waters in the region and he can allocate it to the user he wants and get cash for it. The description of the EAS over Underground Water is http://rahulmehta.com/eas01.htm and draft is at http://rahulmehta.com/eas01.htm#a_0009 . The EAS over Dam Waters is similar. This system will enable the users in AP region to use water, and money will go to people in Telangana, and using 100% market methods. Once that happens, no one in Telangana would insist on lift irrigation.

But alas !! In a nation where educated people vehemently oppose discussing legislations and drafts to solve problems, and insist on ideological, historical, psychological discussions only with 10 varied perceptions, such proposals are of no use. . After all, if labeling Telies as dhimmies or blaming everything on Tamil elitemen or cursing AP wealthies can solve problem, why bother with details of legislations !!

.

RMji

Long ago, we had exchanged a lot of ideas on this topic on legislation/drafts. Let me reiterate. I believe the main problem is not with laws/legislation but legislative process, enforcement and decision making process.

1. No Separation of powers - Legislature and Executive are same for us. There is no checks/balances in our systems between these branches. Judiciary is nominated/appointed by them and hence they are also part of the same chain.

2. Nomination of candidates - No power to people/members of the parties to select a candidate to represent their party. So we see parties are simply selling the tickets to the highest bidder as TRS, Chiranjeevi did. Who knows? May be BJP, TDP and Congress did too. Unless we cut the power of central committees, nothing will change.

3. Referendum, Recall and election of important posts such as Public prosecutors, judges, DGI (Would Rathore molest a girl if he had to be elected every 5 years?)

Once we have these 3 changes, legislation matters. Otherwise, no legislation will help. A lot of people support your ideas.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Jan 2010 09:04

Hmm...a lot of patting on each others back and general groupthink consistent with everything else in AP.

It appears that there is some new "treasure trove" of info which seem to have impressed everyone. Let me review it for further comments.

But couple of quick points:

Posters may recall our focus on the education *institutions* in the region and how the said "expert" focussing on the # of students in each region..I hope posters can see the subtle difference.

It has already been commented that the migration was a big factor not just in Hyd but else where too. Didn't we comment that population of Telangana *increased* whether as population of both Coastal AP and Rayalaseema *decreased* relative to the composition of the state?

Does that explain the massive growth in % of students in the region? If so, is that an indicator of the "growth"?

===Post edited due to misunderstanding of the "average" term. - Thanks to Sarma garu.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 06 Jan 2010 09:15

Removed. See reply below.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 06 Jan 2010 09:19

Satya_Anveshi

about your reading of the table data:

Notice the row 3 and 4:

Students/100 people: 6 - Nizam Telangana - 1956
Student/100 people: 5 - Nizam Telangana (minus Hyd) - 1956

The above DOES NOT mean there was 1/100 student in Hyderabad in 1956. Simple mathematics you forgot eh?

It simply means that the average of 5students/100 in Nizam Telangana exluding Hyderabad improved to 6/100 when you include Hyderabad. This means Hyderabad had sligthly higher average than the rest of Telangana, to be expected.

Actually this implies that there was only 1 student /100 people in Hyderabad in 1956. You don't find this as a problem? well..read on.

Now the next one is even more funnier:

Students/100 people: 19 - Nizam Telangana - 2001
Student/100 people: 19 - Nizam Telangana (minus Hyd) - 2001

Again, the above DOES NOT mean 0 student/100 people in Hyderabad in 2001. It simply means that the average was 19/100 students whether you include or exclude Hyderabad. This means that there was general improvement in the rest of Telangana as well, and the inclusion of Hyderabad did not change the average significantly. In Hyderabad itself, I bet the average will be 80students/100 people, but because of lesser population did not change average significantly.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Jan 2010 09:27

==self deleted as this post does not add value to the discussion

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 06 Jan 2010 09:30

You can see absolute # of students given in the same table. Don't need to go /100 students numbers if it is not clear.

Do you think T.stu/T.pop and (T.stu-H.stu)/(T.pop-H.pop) should not be the same (that too when rounded off)?

T.stu=Telengana students
T.pop=Telengana population
H= Hyderabad

Added later: 19 for T and 19 for T-H tell that student distribution is even with respect to Hyderabad and rest of Telengana.
If you have high distribution of stundet ratio in Hyderabad, you would have gotten lower student#/100 people.

Government should friggin' publish these kind of comparative studies even district-wise. So government can show the data for people when they take decisions that affect them.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 06 Jan 2010 09:33

S_A, please please you read the table wrong and now you are turning the tables on the author. Chakravarthy has said he got the information through the RTI act. You are free to write to him on his blog, and he has encouraged people to do so.

I would highly encourage you to read Undavalli Arunakumar's article in sakshi linked on page 31. He being an MP has access to data from the state govt. If you don't want to believe even that regarding your blatant lie on "greater no. of educational institutions in coatal andhra", there is no point discussing. It's disappointing to see an esteemed member like you stoop to the level of likes such as the other two T-vadis.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Jan 2010 09:35

OK..."Average" the frigging word missing in the article. Let me edit my post.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Jan 2010 09:36

Satya_anveshi wrote:OK.. I am reading the page 3 now on MyRoots site. an observation:

First of all there is no data for the Telangana (minus Hyd) for college students so there is no frigging way to do justice to the premise of the author mentioned in the beginning that he is going to show the disparity (with and without Hyd)

But why should it stop the author from reaching the conclusion that he wants?
And what a conclusion, Telangana (with Hyd) grew double the rate relative to coastal AP when it is known fact that # of institutions are far greater in number in non-Telangana than in Telangana (in 2001).

MyRoots is more like MyEyes to me.

Satya garu, I am sorry to say but you are on the line of criticizing for the sake of criticizing. That is the only slide where the author has no data but all other tables he has provided the differentiation. See the agricultural data where he did not say excluding Hyd because it is obvious there is no agriculture in Hyderabad.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Jan 2010 09:38

Satya_anveshi wrote:OK..."Average" the frigging word missing in the article. Let me edit my post.

Without looking at the math, I copied and pasted your post and emailed to the author.

I should not do math at night.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Jan 2010 09:40

Sarma wrote:S_A, please please you read the table wrong and now you are turning the tables on the author. Chakravarthy has said he got the information through the RTI act. You are free to write to him on his blog, and he has encouraged people to do so.

I would highly encourage you to read Undavalli Arunakumar's article in sakshi linked on page 31. He being an MP has access to data from the state govt. If you don't want to believe even that regarding your blatant lie on "greater no. of educational institutions in coatal andhra", there is no point discussing. It's disappointing to see an esteemed member like you stoop to the level of likes such as the other two T-vadis.

I am quite open to look at the data. If you see the data does not take into account the migratory link that Prof Jayashankar pointed to in the article. Author cannot nullify his point without exploring that linkage.

BTW: I edited my original post. Thanks for pointing that out.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Jan 2010 09:43

Muppalla wrote:Satya garu, I am sorry to say but you are on the line of criticizing for the sake of criticizing. That is the only slide where the author has no data but all other tables he has provided the differentiation. See the agricultural data where he did not say excluding Hyd because it is obvious there is no agriculture in Hyderabad.

I haven't gone that far. I will. The whole argi/irrigation link is actually at the heart of the issue but I am afraid I will reach a point of no return on this issue. I will take that as homework for this week/weekend.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Jan 2010 09:51

There is some good news for TN here

Telangana issue forces IT firms to eye neighbours

Political disturbance over the demand for a separate Telangana [ Images ] state is forcing information technology companies to shift. The process to shortlist office space in neighbouring states, like Tamil Nadu, is underway.

"Six companies, including top five in IT and operating in Hyderabad, want to shift before the end of January," Chennai-based Shriram Properties Managing Director M Murali said.

Software exports from Andhra Pradesh are projected to touch Rs 35,000 crore in 2009-10, and IT companies like Tata Consultancy Services [ Get Quote ], Infosys [ Get Quote ], Wipro [ Get Quote ], Tech Mahindra [ Get Quote ] and HCL [ Get Quote ] are present in Hyderabad.

"Besides Chennai, we have received enquires for leased properties in Visakhapatnam [ Images ]. All want office space for at least three-five years," Murali added.

"Two IT majors have approached us for 100 apartments on bulk lease, besides IT premises," said Chitty Babu, chairman of Akshaya Homes, a Chennai-based developer.

The IT department of Tamil Nadu confirmed that Chennai had received enquiries from Hyderabad-based IT companies. The Electronics Corporation of Tamil Nadu (Elcot), the nodal agency for IT in the state, develops special economic zones.

"We have been approached by IT companies, which are currently enquiring about availability of space in the state," an IT department official said. He added that Elcot was planning to organise roadshows -- from Hyderabad to begin with -- to promote IT in Tamil Nadu.
The move is bound to have its impact.

"About 15-20 percent of the 60,000-140,000 professionals employed globally by Tech Mahindra, Patni Computers, Satyam [ Get Quote ] Computer, HCL, Wipro, Infosys and TCS globally are based in Hyderabad," P Phani Sekhar, fund manager (research arm), Angel Broking said.

J A Chowdary, managing director of NVidia Graphics India [ Images ] and president of The Indus Entrepreneurs, Hyderabad chapter, said if the decision on Telangana was prolonged, the IT companies would suffer. "Though we have requested the political parties to ensure law and order, students are going in for violent agitations by not allowing buses to ply and creating problems for people to reach offices."

nalamotu · Post by **nalamotu** » 06 Jan 2010 10:00

Ramana garu has brought to my attention about questions raised on this group about statistics cited in my book. Please use the following population numbers to normalize the student population. If you find any errors, please let me know and I will be more than happy to correct them.

1951 populatation of coastal andhra: 14433481
1951 populatation of seema: 6074320
1951 populatation of telangana: 10752332
1951 population of telangana minus hyderabad: 8934298

2001 populatation of coastal andhra: 31570722
2001 populatation of seema: 13460253
2001 populatation of telangana: 30696566
2001 population of telangana minus hyderabad: 27010106

Regards,
Chakravarthy
http://www.myteluguroots.com
http://www.facebook.com/people/@/226703252445
http://twitter.com/nalamotu

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Jan 2010 10:16

Welcome to the forum and thread Nalamotu Chakravarthy garu. We were reviewing your book I suppose; having not completed it yet but could you please clarify about the migratory link that Prof. Jayashankar points out.

Clearly from the data you mentioned it appears that the migration did happen. So, in light of migration how does it help if we compare # of students from each region? It is not even negligible to ignore this angle. How does it refute Prof. Jayashankar's point?

1951 % 2001 %
CA 14433481 46.17% 31570722 41.69%
RS 6074320 19.43% 13460253 17.77%
TG 10752332 34.40% 30696566 40.54%
Total 31,260,133 100.00% 75,727,541 100.00%

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 06 Jan 2010 10:35

Satya_anveshi wrote:Welcome to the forum and thread Nalamotu Chakravarthy garu. We were reviewing your book I suppose; having not completed it yet but could you please clarify about the migratory link that Prof. Jayashankar points out.

Clearly from the data you mentioned it appears that the migration did happen. So, in light of migration how does it help if we compare # of students from each region? It is not even negligible to ignore this angle. How does it refute Prof. Jayashankar's point?

1951 % 2001 %
CA 14433481 46.17% 31570722 41.69%
RS 6074320 19.43% 13460253 17.77%
TG 10752332 34.40% 30696566 40.54%
Total 31,260,133 100.00% 75,727,541 100.00%

Satya_anveshi,
Could you please clarify how the migration matters in this discussion? Are we talking about the development of a region or the development of a specific group of people?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Jan 2010 10:44

milindc wrote:Satya_anveshi,
Could you please clarify how the migration matters in this discussion? Are we talking about the development of a region or the development of a specific group of people?

A linkage was made to show or refute the education and economic disparity between the regions of AP. In that endeavor, an attempt was made to show the growth of # of students in each region and the data shows that Telangana, contrary to some proponents view (let's say Prof Jayashankar's) with whom I agree on this point), was shown to grow more than other regions.

I am trying to understand if the migration indeed happen, that may explain bulk of the growth rather than the ground reality in the Telangana region. Unless we explain or understand this better, I have to say, we cannot not compare the real picture in Telangana to the real picture of the rest of AP.

One assumption I can think of is the entire migration happened only to Hyd. But I am not sure if that would be appropriate (this also goes with my own observation). Some enlightened soul with access to data needs to provide it to further justify.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 06 Jan 2010 10:48

Satya_anveshi wrote:
milindc wrote:Satya_anveshi,
Could you please clarify how the migration matters in this discussion? Are we talking about the development of a region or the development of a specific group of people?
A linkage was made to show or refute the education and economic disparity between the regions of AP. In that endeavor, an attempt was made to show the growth of # of students in each region and the data shows that Telangana, contrary to some proponents view (let's say Prof Jayashankar's) with whom I agree on this point), was shown to grow more than other regions.

I am trying to understand if the migration indeed happen, that may explain bulk of the growth rather than the ground reality in the Telangana region. Unless we explain or understand this better, I have to say, we cannot not compare the real picture in Telangana to the real picture of the rest of AP.

So are you suggesting that the growth happening due to migration is not true growth ? What matters is the growth of true sons/daughters of soil?
I still can't comprehend what you mean by elimination the growth numbers due to migration.

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 06 Jan 2010 10:50

year population of telangana - population of telangana minus hyderabad = Hyd. population

1951 10752332 - 8934298 = 18lacs

2001 30696566 - 27010106 = 36lacs

the increase from 18 to 36 lacs for Hyd. is an understatement, it doesn't support the migration angle

Telangana's argument is Hyderabad grew and this migrated group grew as well, not the local telangana group

rest of telangana didn't grew either

so, when you calculate the wealth of Telangana, you want to remove the wealth of the migrated group, for practical purposes its Hyderabad

Telangana's growth will have to be calculated without Hyd. to get the real picture

this doesn't say anything about rest of Andhra, but their real growth is needed for relative scale

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Jan 2010 11:01

milindc wrote:So are you suggesting that the growth happening due to migration is not true growth ? What matters is the growth of true sons/daughters of soil?
I still can't comprehend what you mean by elimination the growth numbers due to migration.

Exactly, my point.
On one view, everyone is son of the soil.
But when discussing relative disparity of Telangana / rest of AP, this factor needs to be understood. Otherwise what is the point of comparison?

Also, I don't think I used the word "elimination" anywhere.

nalamotu · Post by **nalamotu** » 06 Jan 2010 11:08

Satya Anveshi garu- Could you please point me to Prof. Jayashankar's research/paper on migration. I am referring to the numbers you've cited below:

===========
Clearly from the data you mentioned it appears that the migration did happen. So, in light of migration how does it help if we compare # of students from each region? It is not even negligible to ignore this angle. How does it refute Prof. Jayashankar's point?

1951 % 2001 %
CA 14433481 46.17% 31570722 41.69%
RS 6074320 19.43% 13460253 17.77%
TG 10752332 34.40% 30696566 40.54%
Total 31,260,133 100.00% 75,727,541 100.00%
=================

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 06 Jan 2010 11:11

Satya_anveshi wrote:
milindc wrote:So are you suggesting that the growth happening due to migration is not true growth ? What matters is the growth of true sons/daughters of soil?
I still can't comprehend what you mean by elimination the growth numbers due to migration.
Exactly, my point.
On one view, everyone is son of the soil.
But when discussing relative disparity of Telangana / rest of AP, this factor needs to be understood. Otherwise what is the point of comparison?

Also, I don't think I used the word "elimination" anywhere.

Satya_anveshi,
This is a slippery slope and makes people from other regions and other parts of India who have made Telangana region home very uncomfortable. This is exactly the 'Marathi Manoos' campaign of Raj Thackeray, true sons/daughters of soil are being left behind. My advise is that we don't fall for this demagoguery.

If you are talking about comparison without the migration numbers, you are indeed talking about elimination of those growth numbers from comparison.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 06 Jan 2010 11:15

If one wants to exclude Hyderabad from the calculations of Telangana's progress, whichever way one wants to do it, then by the same logic, one should exclude Visakhapatnam, Vijayawada and Guntur from the "progress of coastal andhra." How does it matter if the people who migrated to a city (Hyderabad or not) are from coastal andhra or not!! If you exclude these three cities from the progress statistics of coastal andhra, then all that remains in coastal andhra is matti dibba (pile of dirt).