Indian Interests

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svinayak
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

devesh wrote:the Manu Joseph article is the most idiotic and brain dead that i've seen in a while. it sets a new record for its sheer intellectual laziness.

the opening sentence talks about how Swamis dress differently from the "common" people. he goes on to say how common Indians wear shirts and trousers but swamis wear different style of clothing....this, for him is conclusive proof of "alienation" of swamis from common population.

I don't even know where to begin with this argument of his. should I laugh for the sheer stupidity of the argument, or cry for the fact that the piece appears in a major American newspaper???

Swamis are a beacon/representation of age old Dharma, and so they wear dhotis and cover the upper body with a simple cloth to signify asceticism and Sanyasa. they must reject all the "showiness" of jewelry, etc. this is the meaning behind Swamis' clothing. this fact is known to everybody in India. any Hindu knows this. Manu Joseph knows this too. for all his pretensions, I'm sure he's aware of the "ideology" behind the clothing of Swamis. Gandhi's clothing was based on the same idea of renunciation. but he's deliberately framing the debate in an alien and crooked way for the foreign audience. what he's doing is perpetuating the fake and fallacious argument that "swamis are alienated from mainstream."

it is a lifafa/DIE article which propagates the kind of deracination that EJ's want Indians to believe about themselves. there is nothing "genuine" or "messengerly" about Joseph's article. it is deliberately fake arguments posing as "genuine concern."
THis article is important is that he is a informer and trying to do sociology studies on Indians for the westerner. He is also using the EJ language to describe Indians.
In the 1980s and 1990s the sociology studies on India got hijacked by EJ people and lot of "secular" groups.
Lot of material on sociology by west have lot of problems and these are repeated by these same groups. Indians and media people now copy the same fiction now and they completely lose the narration.
This article is one of them. There is worry in the article and also trying to fit the new popular movement to some kind of past groups.
When ever the groups got media coverage we have noticed that EJs and secular groups have gone after the Hindu swami and have assaulted them in media and image. This secret groups who watch the growth of Hindu movements are the most dangerous. Western EJs work with these to target Indians.

The western reader actually asks for this kind of article which used to be provided by the Indian informer and sociologists.

A peculiar characteristic of Indian leaders who claim to represent the average man is that they dress very differently from him.
Behavior analysis


a brand of Hindu philosophy that is secular in nature.
The failure of Mr. Shankar to spread his influence beyond the affluent represents an inexplicable anomaly in a familiar pattern of Indian society. Usually, an elite obsession percolates down the layers to the masses. Most of Indian culture has spread this way, including food, rituals, music and cricket. But, for some reason, elite spiritual masters have made little impact on the masses.
Hindu society is being analysed by a western oriented socio psuedo. He is implying that spiritual things dont matter to the people.
This is again sociology comment trying to show something.

In most of the first world, an Indian has a better chance of being accepted as a spiritual leader than, say, a Hungarian. In several interviews, Mr. Shankar has emphasized the branding of India as the spiritual home of the world. It is one of the most enduring and absurd of myths.
This is where he shows his color.

These exotic gurus emerge because Hinduism is not a structured faith with a central authority or a chain of command. So there is more room for spiritual freelancers.
This is sociology analysis.

Still, the branding of Indian spirituality is so powerful that the young and the old from the West continue to come here in search of the “truth.”
This used to be talk of the leftist/marxist/communist. They want this to be mainstream opinion.
Using marxist language lot of EJ people abuse Hinduism. This needs to be watched.
Last edited by svinayak on 09 Jul 2011 23:59, edited 1 time in total.
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by SwamyG »

Pranav wrote:
SwamyG wrote:More precisely :-) ? Do you deny the possibility of fake swamis and gurus in the society?
Please go on and complete your point.
Gee.....I asked you a question. You keep stalling and pretending you did not understand my question nor our society. If you have courtesy and intellectual honesty, please answer my question if you want to take the discussion further. Let me ask you again, "Do you think, in our society, fake swamis and gurus raise up?". Having followed Rajiv Malhotra's discourses and books* - yes I have two of his books, I know the treatment of Western media, government, academia ityadi how they target Indians and Hindus. I know how they use Indians to further their goals. That is not my focus. I raised a particular question (or point as you say) about the existence of individuals who more or less are interested in the money and fame than the spirituality - fake gurus in my definition.

* Invading the Sacred and Breaking India. I have met Rajiv Malhotra, talked to him listen to him ityadi.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

SwamyG wrote: More precisely :-) ? Do you deny the possibility of fake swamis and gurus in the society?
There are dharmic ways of handling it. But the marxist view of this or the sociology analysis of this is not needed.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

Now, northeast Bodo group demands separate statehood
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/now-n ... 110709.htm
The movement for a separate state of Telangana [ Images ] in the south is having its repercussion in northeast India [ Images ] too. Now, the Bodoland People's Front, a tribal political group comprising former insurgents, has stated that a separate state for the Bodo tribe in Assam would be a must if the Centre grants a Telengana state.The leader of the BPF, Hagrama Mohilary said, "A separate Bodoland has been a long standing demand. However, when we signed the Bodo Peace Accord [ Images ] in February 2003, the then National Democratic Alliance government at the Centre told us that there was no policy to grant any more states in the country and hence we settle for Bodoland Territorial Council."He further said, "In case the present United Progressive Alliance [ Images ] regime at the Centre relents to the Telengana movement and create a separate state, then our demand for statehood too has to be fulfilled."The BPF was formed by the leaders of the now disbanded Bodo militant group Bodo Liberation Tiger after it had signed the Bodo peace accord with the Indian government in 2003 after a prolonged armed rebellion in Bodo tribe inhabited areas in Assam. The BLT's key demand was for creation of a separate state for the Bodo tribe in Assam, which failed to cut ice with the Union government then.The BPF is now the only ally of the ruling Congress in Assam and is in power in Bodoland Territorial Council which was created under the provisions of the Amended Sixth Schedule as per the Bodo Peace Accord.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pranav »

SwamyG wrote:
Pranav wrote:
Please go on and complete your point.
Gee.....I asked you a question. You keep stalling and pretending you did not understand my question nor our society. If you have courtesy and intellectual honesty, please answer my question if you want to take the discussion further. Let me ask you again, "Do you think, in our society, fake swamis and gurus raise up?".
Obviously, there exist all kinds of people on this planet. Now pray make your point. No offense is intended.
Last edited by Pranav on 09 Jul 2011 23:12, edited 1 time in total.
sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

The text quote below describes the age of quarrel and hypocrisy we are in.Fake Swamis ans Gurus are aplenty, beware.

I have copied this from http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto12/chapter2.html

Despair and Hope in the Age of Quarrel
Sukadeva Goswami spoke to Maharaj Parikshit and the other gathered sages, at Shukrataal. This place is hallowed by the presence of a massive vatavriksha, or banyan tree. It is on the way to Haridwar, a little detour from Muzaffarnagar.

(1) S'rî S'uka said: 'And then, o King, day after day under the strong influence of the time [of Kali-yuga] the religiousness, truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance and mercy as well as the duration of life, the strength and the memory will diminish [see also 1.16]. (2) In the age of Kali among man wealth alone will be the sign of a good birth, behavior and qualities and material power will be the only criterion in determining what would be just and right. (3) Marital relations will be based upon outer appearances, in business deceit will be the standard, whether one is considered manly or feminine will depend on one's sexuality and a sacred thread will suffice to be considered learned. (4) An outer mark will be enough to determine a person's spiritual status and will also suffice for changing one's confession, making little money one looses one's credibility and a little word jugglery is enough to be considered a scholar. (5) Poverty is taken for something unholy and hypocrisy is considered a virtue; a promise is enough to be married [to have premarital sex] and to take a bath [without any other morning routine] is enough to appear for the day. (6) A reservoir of water somewhere far away is considered a holy place, beauty depends on one's coiffure, life's purpose is to fill one's belly, audacity is considered truthfulness, able to maintain a family one is an expert and religious service is attended for one's reputation. (7) With the earth overpopulated with a populace thus corrupted, anyone among the intellectuals, the merchants or the ruling or working class who is the strongest, will be the King of the Hill. (8) The citizens whose wives and property is stolen by a merciless and avaricious ruling class behaving like ordinary thieves, will flee to the mountains and the forests. (9) Resorting to the consumption of vegetables, roots, meat, honey, fruits, flowers and seeds they will be ruined, suffering draught, tormented by famine and taxes . (10) By cold, wind, heat, rain and snow plagued as well as by hunger, thirst and diseases, they suffer as a consequence a great deal of distress and anxiety. (11) The maximum duration of life for human beings in Kali-yuga will be fifty years. (12-16) When the bodies of all living entities by the contamination of Kali-yuga are in decay and the dutifulness of the members of all status-orientations is lost, when the vedic path fit for all man has changed into an atheistic conception of duty, when the kings predominantly act as thieves and men in their various occupations in truth are all lying bandits of meaningless slaughter, when the classes are predominantly [profit-]labor-minded, the cows are no better than goats, the hermitages are just like materialistic homes, family ties do not reach further than the bonds of marriage, when the plants and herbs have reduced in size and all trees are like s'amî trees, when there is always lightning in the clouds and the homes are ruled by loneliness [voidism, impersonalism, when Kali-yuga is running at its end and the people have become like asses, the Supreme Lord will descend in the mode of pure goodness to defend the dharma.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Image
Elephant to be replaced by this image as party symbol of Maya's party! :rotfl:
http://newsthatmattersnot.com/2010/04/m ... nched.html
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by suryag »

What i dont understand is the demonisation of Mayawati, let me do an equal-equal between her and the congis, when congis can name every govt build even if it is a toilet after rajiv gandhi, when they can come up "indira is india" slogans, when every state leader says that the decision whether to take a leak or not needs to come from the high command why cant Mayawati do what she does, is it because she is throughly SDRE that she is subjected to potshots in the media ?
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Gaurav_S »

Big country with a small heart

link
IN Karachi’s Keamari harbour, near Baba and Bhit islands and close to the Yacht Club, is a macabre sight: scores of wooden fishing boats are quietly rotting away. A few are still riding high in the water, but most are partly submerged, their hulls and masts tilting at crazy angles.

This watery graveyard contains the life-savings of hundreds of Indian fishermen who were unfortunate enough to cross the unmarked coastal boundary between Indian and Pakistani waters. Captured and locked up, they languish in jail, sometimes for years. Their release in exchange for Pakistani fishermen in Indian jails for a similar ‘crime’ depends on the state of relations between the two countries.

The rotting boats and the imprisoned fishermen are apt metaphors for the situation in which India and Pakistan find themselves. Frozen in their rigid position of no-war, no-peace, both countries take out their frustration on the weakest of the weak.

As the recent meetings between Indian and Pakistani officials showed yet again, there is little stomach for a sane and peaceful resolution of their outstanding problems on either side. They go through the rituals of pretending to negotiate, knowing full well that no agreements will emerge at the end of the exercise. There is simply no political will in either Islamabad or New Delhi to cut the Gordian knot.

And yet, there was a time when there was hope for a breakthrough. Under Benazir Bhutto and Rajiv Gandhi in 1989, an agreement over the absurd squabble over the Siachen glacier was reached. Sadly, the Indian establishment torpedoed it before the ink had dried. And Musharraf, for all his flaws, as well his responsibility for the Kargil folly, genuinely tried to solve the festering Kashmir dispute, and presented some out-of-the-box ideas, including putting the UN resolutions aside. He was snubbed by India for his pains.

So if Pakistan, with its huge security problems, its dysfunctional civilian government and its prickly, blinkered generals, can make serious attempts at mending fences with its neighbour, why can’t India? After all, with its overwhelming military superiority, its rapidly expanding economy and the goodwill it has globally, it should be brimming with self-confidence. So what excuse does India have for not being more proactive and imaginative in promoting regional peace?

The truth is that somehow, despite its economic and military clout, India continues to punch well below its weight in the region. When Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said recently that 25 per cent of all Bangladeshis hated India, he might have been undiplomatic, but he was saying something everybody knows. Here is a much smaller neighbour that owes India its very existence as an independent state, and yet anti-India sentiments in Bangladesh are rampant.

Or take Sri Lanka, an even smaller neighbour. In the closing stages of the civil war two years ago, tens of thousands of Tamils were massacred, and India could do nothing to persuade Colombo to desist. This is despite the fact that the citizens of the Indian state of Tamil Nadu were convulsed at the sight of their cousins being slaughtered.

The only time India attempted to intervene in the conflict was when it sent a peace-keeping force to the island. These soldiers were pulled out after three years following heavy fighting with the LTTE. Since then, India remained a bystander while Pakistan and China armed and trained government forces. So although India is helping Sri Lanka with various infrastructure projects, it has very little influence in Colombo.

Or take Nepal, another of India’s neighbours that has gone though a long and bloody civil war. Although the land-locked nation’s economy is almost completely integrated with India’s, New Delhi was unable to intervene in the civil war, or in the long political crisis that has paralysed the country.

Even within India, the expanding Naxalite insurrection, as well as other separatist movements in Mizoram and Kashmir, highlight the establishment’s lack of imagination and self-confidence. These problems have been around for decades, and continue to get worse rather than better. Surely some creative ideas ought to have been put forward by now. But force seems to be the only answer New Delhi is capable of.

India’s successful entrepreneurs have seized opportunities created by globalisation, as well as by their country’s growing middle class and its trained manpower. Indian politicians, diplomats and civil servants, on the other hand, retain their old mindset from an era when India was just another developing nation. Instead of using its expanded hard and soft power to have a greater say in the region, India appears to be a timid player on the world stage.

In order to translate its growing strength into influence, India need not be the bully on the block, as it has so often seemed to its smaller neighbours. Given its resources and expertise in many fields, it can reach out to extend a helping hand. It can and should expand trade, and encourage its entrepreneurs to invest in the region.

The regional organisation, Saarc, must be reactivated to become the platform for expanding regional trade and travel it was designed to be. But for any of this to happen, India needs to break out of its timorous frame of mind and think big. Before it can be seriously accepted as a major global player, it has to sort out its regional disputes.

Whenever I have suggested that India can afford to be magnanimous as it is so much more powerful than Pakistan, I am routinely attacked by Indian readers. But what’s the alternative? Clearly, Pakistan’s generals are too insecure to take the initiative, and its shaky civilian government is in no position to take up from where Musharraf left off.

However, both Asif Zardari and Nawaz Sharif have expressed their desire to normalise relations with India.Somehow, the political elites as well as the media in both countries are quite content with the status quo. They seem to think that it is perfectly normal to stay locked in a confrontation for decades when the rest of the world is moving ahead. And while India has done phenomenally well in recent years, the majority of its population still lives in abject poverty.

A few years ago, I was at a conference in Colombo to discuss the Kashmir problem, and a retired Pakistani general said: “India is a big country with a small heart.” High time Indians proved him wrong.

[email protected]
Didn't know where to put this or even what to say. Thought this is probably most relavant thread. Dunno in which way author wants India to be magnanimous. If India tries to intervene then neigbours say "India is trying to become big brother" else we are considered to be minnows even with 1.3 trillion USD economy.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by vera_k »

suryag wrote:What i dont understand is the demonisation of Mayawati, let me do an equal-equal between her and the congis, when congis can name every govt build even if it is a toilet after rajiv gandhi, when they can come up "indira is india" slogans, when every state leader says that the decision whether to take a leak or not needs to come from the high command why cant Mayawati do what she does, is it because she is throughly SDRE that she is subjected to potshots in the media ?
a) Because she is a lower caste leader (dalits are underrepresented in media), and b) because she may delegitimise Gandhi claim to represent India when they cannot even win in their own state.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

I personally think the INC chamchas are just pissed that Mayawati has created her own separate power center in the Gangetic Valley. and Mayawati is different from other regional powers in the sense that she doesn't toe to anybody's line. she doesn't care for all the power and pomp of Maino mafia. she doesn't show any need to supplicate to them. this is why the P-sec media hates her. for them, a Dalit leader automatically must belong to their camp. But Mayawati has crushed their fantasies of becoming a Dalit "showcase" who can be used to market Maino agenda. if Mayawati ever becomes a Maino chamcha, then P-sec media will love her. till then, she will continue to get the hot-and-cold treatment.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

I love behenji for a simple reason that the madamwadis hate her...........

In addition she has brought about a relative rule of law in her state and is an able administrator.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

^^^^
Maybe right they are pissed off, but she is more of an egomaniac. She has messed up the riverside in Noida with statues of herself and Kanshiram already.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Ok......

She whats to use that as a symbol to promote herself in a deluded attempt to show the dalits that they have arrived. Whats wrong with that.............

When in comparison the Kangress is re naming every street and monumnet after one or the other Gandhi.......

So all == from where I am looking at it.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by RoyG »

Is anybody watching the ndtv episode titled "Does India need a separate communal violence bill?" These secularists are indeed a perverse lot. All Indians should be treated equally under the law. If there is a problem with administrative function before or in response to a communal clash, then laws should be strengthened to deal with that separately. Moreover, if one cannot distinguish between the religious and the secular, then why even propose the bill in the first place (technically anything can be construed as religious)? I feel that the best way we can challenge communal clashes in India is if the individual is recognized as the sovereign and not the community.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by chetak »

sanjeevpunj wrote:^^^^
Maybe right they are pissed off, but she is more of an egomaniac. She has messed up the riverside in Noida with statues of herself and Kanshiram already.

She is spoiling yuvraj's chances, that's why DDM and others are targeting her.

Nothing like the tantalising whiff of padmashris to galvanise the paid yokels. :)
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

But the man Rahul has a future. I don't know why the Congress is getting paranoid about her.He is winning the hearts of youth.The paranoia is emanating perhaps from the old guard that will gradually fade away.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Pratyush wrote:Ok......

She whats to use that as a symbol to promote herself in a deluded attempt to show the dalits that they have arrived. Whats wrong with that.............

When in comparison the Kangress is re naming every street and monumnet after one or the other Gandhi.......

So all == from where I am looking at it.
Well,I think both are wrong,kangress and maya.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

sanjeevpunj wrote:But the man Rahul has a future. I don't know why the Congress is getting paranoid about her.He is winning the hearts of youth.The paranoia is emanating perhaps from the old guard that will gradually fade away.

:rotfl:

seems like we keep getting more and more INC chamchas on BRF....seriously, who are all these "hearts" that Rahul Maino is winning over??? he is non-entity. a spineless idiot using past ancestral deeds to thump his chest. he has no charisma. no understanding of India. and certainly no "political" acumen.

but then again considering that Sonia Maino is a very acceptable candidate for Indian electorate, you never know. Rahul Maino might be a stellar candidate.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

devesh wrote:
sanjeevpunj wrote:But the man Rahul has a future. I don't know why the Congress is getting paranoid about her.He is winning the hearts of youth.The paranoia is emanating perhaps from the old guard that will gradually fade away.
:rotfl:
seems like we keep getting more and more INC chamchas on BRF....seriously, who are all these "hearts" that Rahul Maino is winning over??? he is non-entity. a spineless idiot using past ancestral deeds to thump his chest. he has no charisma. no understanding of India. and certainly no "political" acumen.

but then again considering that Sonia Maino is a very acceptable candidate for Indian electorate, you never know. Rahul Maino might be a stellar candidate.
:rotfl: yourself as much as you like, but assuming that I am a fan of Rahul is quite erroneous.I might praise a man for something, yet I might also criticise him for something else.Chamcha is not in my way of thinking, at all, before you cast the word "chamcha" at me, think twice, next time.I believe in expressing myself, and I also take criticism well, I am not annoyed by your assumptions.I only take exception to words that do not describe me being used.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by SwamyG »

Pranav wrote: Obviously, there exist all kinds of people on this planet. Now pray make your point. No offense is intended.
So that is your answer?
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Airavat »

RoyG wrote:Is anybody watching the ndtv episode titled "Does India need a separate communal violence bill?"
Times Now had a more structured discussion on the issue
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ShauryaT »

x-post.
Good morning, ’Nam
As always, however, there’s a glitch. Even though Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his national security adviser (NSA) Shiv Shankar Menon are reportedly for an Indian naval presence in the Vietnamese seas and want India to be a staunch strategic partner of Vietnam, the until recently defence secretary, Pradeep Kumar, was pressing the brakes. Fuelling the innate over-caution of his minister, A.K. Antony, he argued that such a stance would needlessly “provoke” the Chinese and, therefore, is avoidable. It is a remarkable characteristic of the dysfunctional Indian system that despite the Prime Minister’s and the NSA’s support for this initiative, a defence ministry bureaucrat can so easily gum up the works. Hopefully Mr Kumar will be succeeded by someone a bit more on the ball.
Tit-for-tat is something Beijing appreciates better than the apologetic do-nothing tone of statements on China usually emanating from the ministry of external affairs and the generalist defence ministry civil servants. The Indian government should long ago have responded to the nuclear missile-arming of Pakistan by China by equipping Vietnam with nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles and the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile, as I have been advocating the past 15 years. The fact that the Indian government has not done this and, indeed, not accorded top priority to militarily advantaging Vietnam in every possible way, indicates the essential infirmity in India’s strategic thinking. China has used Pakistan to try and contain India to the subcontinent. It’s time India returned the compliment and cooperated with Vietnam, which does not shrink from a fight, to contain China to its immediate waters. Acting on the basis that Vietnam constitutes India’s first line of defence will ensure that, among other things, the bulked-up Chinese Navy is bottled up well east of the Malacca Strait.
The author is a professor at the Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Arjun »

sanjeevpunj wrote:But the man Rahul has a future. I don't know why the Congress is getting paranoid about her.He is winning the hearts of youth.The paranoia is emanating perhaps from the old guard that will gradually fade away.
Feudalistic dynastyism should NOT have a future in India..... This forum needs to take a stance on certain issues - and halting the illiberalism of dynastic politics in India is one of them. Lets not have any more encouragement for this scourge.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pranav »

SwamyG wrote:
Pranav wrote: Obviously, there exist all kinds of people on this planet. Now pray make your point. No offense is intended.
So that is your answer?
Yes, it covers the question you asked.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

Mayawati is much liked in UP in all sections, barring a small holdout of die hard Kangressmen.

To the extent, BJP does not want to attack her, as they expect that to be counterproductive, they just talk about "their own stuff" in UP.

The only parties opposing her a SP and Kangress.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Arjun wrote:Feudalistic dynastyism should NOT have a future in India..... This forum needs to take a stance on certain issues - and halting the illiberalism of dynastic politics in India is one of them. Lets not have any more encouragement for this scourge.
I agree, we shouldn't be promoting more of the dynasty thing, but what if this man is the only other person who knows the password to the Swiss Account? What if he doesn't ever share it with the country? How do we get back the black money then? We have to pressurise this man when he takes charge as PM, to open the coffers and pledge the money towards alleviation of poverty. We cannot pressurise Dr Man Mohan Singh, to declare his swiss account as he has nothing to declare.That is one reason why Dr Man Mohan Singh asked all the Ministers to declare their assets.

We cannot let Rahul get away with it by shunning him. Eventually he will spill the beans, once in power people do contradictory things.He is one part of the system that needs to be scrutinised,sterilised and transformed, and if he doesn't submit to transformation,he will bring about his own end.Elimination of Rahul Gandhi from the scene is not remotely possible, as of now,he is already poised for the take-over after Dr Man Mohan Singh.The key man who knows the secrets of Dynasty's Swiss Accounts is Pranab Mukherjee. He is the slyest of the lot, after Chidambaram.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by nachiket »

sanjeevpunj wrote: I agree, we shouldn't be promoting more of the dynasty thing, but what if this man is the only other person who knows the password to the Swiss Account? What if he doesn't ever share it with the country? How do we get back the black money then? We have to pressurise this man when he takes charge as PM, to open the coffers and pledge the money towards alleviation of poverty. We cannot pressurise Dr Man Mohan Singh, to declare his swiss account as he has nothing to declare.That is one reason why Dr Man Mohan Singh asked all the Ministers to declare their assets.
So you accept that this man-child may be hiding millions in Swiss bank accounts and your answer is to make him the PM? :eek: I did not know BRFites indulged in Lahori logic as well.
We cannot let Rahul get away with it by shunning him. Eventually he will spill the beans, once in power people do contradictory things.He is one part of the system that needs to be scrutinised,sterilised and transformed, and if he doesn't submit to transformation,he will bring about his own end.Elimination of Rahul Gandhi from the scene is not remotely possible, as of now,he is already poised for the take-over after Dr Man Mohan Singh.The key man who knows the secrets of Dynasty's Swiss Accounts is Pranab Mukherjee. He is the slyest of the lot, after Chidambaram.
Ok, we need to understand one thing. Under the present system in India, once you are in power, it is extremely easy to get rid of all evidence of your corruption and other transgressions. Look at how the maino cabal has escaped scot free in the 2G and the CWG and the old Bofors scams. What makes you think it will be any different with yuvraj in power.

If there is one thing the dynasty is really really good at, then it is executing spectacular scams and escaping without any blame. The sooner the Indian public realises that it is up to them to not give these guys any more chances to screw the country, the better. I don't have high hopes of this happening in the near future though.
sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

nachiket wrote: So you accept that this man-child may be hiding millions in Swiss bank accounts and your answer is to make him the PM? :eek: I did not know BRFites indulged in Lahori logic as well.
Once he is PM he can be pressurised democratically to give up the wealth on moral grounds. As of now he can simply run away from India to safeguard his wealth and live abroad, but if made the PM he can be pressurised.Sounds Lahori logic to you, but it could work.The aim is to get the black money for poverty alleviation, nation building. So that could be achieved democratically too.
nachiket wrote:Ok, we need to understand one thing. Under the present system in India, once you are in power, it is extremely easy to get rid of all evidence of your corruption and other transgressions. Look at how the maino cabal has escaped scot free in the 2G and the CWG and the old Bofors scams. What makes you think it will be any different with yuvraj in power.
If there is one thing the dynasty is really really good at, then it is executing spectacular scams and escaping without any blame. The sooner the Indian public realises that it is up to them to not give these guys any more chances to screw the country, the better. I don't have high hopes of this happening in the near future though.
Exactly, and why you don't have high hopes? Because the opposite will happen.Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.Murphy's law.Once Rahul is PM, Lok Pal can pressurise him,and even put him under the Lok Pal scanner.Make him cough the money out.That is our target isn't it, to get the black money out.Whether it comes after Rahul becomes PM or before, is a matter of logistics, but it must come out.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

I agree with SanjeevPunj, today Dynasty has all power but no responsibility. Putting RG on the throne and officially his name being included in decesions, he can be prosecuted later. Right only the pawns are taking the yellow stuff hitting the fan.

Dynasty is not good at escaping without thier name. It is that 2 generations of top beauracrats, Businessmen and thier Public relations department media have fed from thier hands and done thier best to keep thier reputations Lily white.
Last edited by Aditya_V on 11 Jul 2011 20:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by RamaY »

SwamyG wrote: So that is your answer?
SwamyG garu,

There are different types of gurus in one’s life. A few of them (AFAIR, they may not be in the order or correct names)

1. Mother, Father
2. Vidya Guru – Who teaches education
3. Kula Guru – Who guides one in their varna-ashrama duties (Pls read the story “Ramo Vigrahavan Dharma:” I posted in Epics thread where Viswamitra explains the limitations of Vashista as Kula Guru)
4. Mantra Guru – Who gives Mantradeeksha
5. Jnana Guru – Who guides the disciple towards self/god realization
6. Kshudra Guru – Who teaches tantric courses (The *ananda episode, Rajanish episode are of these types)

Note: Please note that at the ultimate level all these paths 'might' take one towards his/her Jnanaguru and self-realization.

And so on.. Here is one link for you http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/kn ... tures.html

It depends both on the disciple as well as guru on what outcome the association gives.

A true student/disciple first does “Purushardha Nischaya” and then “Anta:karana Sudhi” (Viveka Chudamani) before approaching a guru for Jnana. Unfortunately not many disciples are interested in this in any society. Even when one does Purushartha Nischaya and have Antahkarana Sudhi, one has to be very careful about selecting the teacher. Viveka Chudamani says that one should not for a teacher who says that “I will help you achieve heavens or swarga sukhas or siddhis or hold over certain obstacle”. A true guru always talks about Jnana and Jnana only.

Pursuing self/god realization while being amongst the society is not easy. That is why SD cameup with the ashramas “Vanaprastha and Samnyasa”. Only one in a billion or so can achieve this while being away from all worldly pulls, imagine one achieving this while living in the society. A Ramakrishna Paramahamsa or Ramana Maharshi are the exceptions to this rule. Even they preferred doing their tapas/penance in isolation.

Most of the gurus in the society are not Jnana Gurus. Even the disciples do not reach them for the Jnana. The students/worshippers reach out to these gurus for all other purposes except Jnana. No wonder even the disciples and gurus fall into various traps.

What you see today is the in-congruency between disciples’ expectations (explicitly stated and implicitly expected) and guru’s expectations and capabilities. The [sic] secularists only complain on Gurus as it is one way to destroy Hinduism.

***

So the answer to your question is, don't blame a Tantrik guru for not giving you Atma-jnana and so on. First ask yourself what you need then prepare yourself so you deserve what you are asking, then look for the right guru and get what you are looking for.

It is like someone getting into Harvard Business School by taking GMAT and going thru MBA course, and then blaming HBU for not giving him the best technology education. How silly is that :wink:
Last edited by RamaY on 11 Jul 2011 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Eventually we mature in self-realisation when we stop blaming others, see our own defects in light of other's criticisms,and correct ourselves and evolve.The inner Guru is the self-situated Paramatma, the eternal witness that does not participate in our self indulgence, but quietly watches, looking at our defects, ensuring we do not repeat past mistakes, thus promoting us towards self-realisation.Two great friends accompany us till the very end- 1.humility in conduct (can be equated to Shradhha) and 2.infallible perseverence (can be equated to saburi-patience).
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by SwamyG »

Pranav wrote:Yes, it covers the question you asked.
I am enthralled and illuminated, not to speak of increase in knowledge.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Virupaksha »

sanjeevpunj wrote: Once he is PM he can be pressurised democratically to give up the wealth on moral grounds. As of now he can simply run away from India to safeguard his wealth and live abroad, but if made the PM he can be pressurised.Sounds Lahori logic to you, but it could work.The aim is to get the black money for poverty alleviation, nation building. So that could be achieved democratically too.
sanjeevpunj ji,

are you competing for the delusion of the day award?? I am sorry, my brain is not able to "comprehend" the above logic.
Exactly, and why you don't have high hopes? Because the opposite will happen.Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.Murphy's law.Once Rahul is PM, Lok Pal can pressurise him,and even put him under the Lok Pal scanner.Make him cough the money out.That is our target isn't it, to get the black money out.Whether it comes after Rahul becomes PM or before, is a matter of logistics, but it must come out.
:rotfl: :rotfl:

I think the above statements belong in the humour thread, not here.

I sincerely request you to take a step back and look at what you are writing on a fresh perspective. Because your logics have degenerated to nonsense. When you start using Murphy's law as your logic to doing a certain thing or explaining something other than complete failure, you have openly said that I have no logic/thought process behind it, just my blind faith and delusions.
Last edited by Virupaksha on 11 Jul 2011 21:41, edited 1 time in total.
Sushupti
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sushupti »

humility in conduct (can be equated to Shradhha)
typed a reply in off topic thread.
sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

ravi_ku wrote: I think the above statements belong in the humour thread, not here.
I sincerely request you to take a step back and look at what you are writing on a fresh perspective. Because your logics have degenerated to nonsense. When you start using Murphy's law as your logic to doing a certain thing or explaining something other than complete failure, you have openly said that I have no logic/thought process behind it, just my blind faith and delusions.
Ok let me return to the past and see where I took the wrong turn.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pranav »

SwamyG wrote:
Pranav wrote:Yes, it covers the question you asked.
I am enthralled and illuminated, not to speak of increase in knowledge.
:rotfl: We are pleased to see you thus benefited.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sushupti »

self deleted
Last edited by Sushupti on 11 Jul 2011 23:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sushupti »

Risk factors for India's survival in coming days ahead



Scary!!!
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