J&K News and Discussion-2011

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 07 Oct 2011 02:23

ramana wrote:What are the basci facts of the custody death of the NC worker in J&K jail? Why is NC in turmoil and INC making clukking noises?

The NC worker was a close associate of Abdullah's ( Tax collector on their behalf, would have pocketed more than what he was entitled to ). Omar had called him for a meeting and then had him arrested. His mouth was permanently shut before he could spill the beans.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Oct 2011 02:35

So it was political party goondagiri. What does Mehbooba Mufti have to say? Or the other opposition? INC already endorses it.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 07 Oct 2011 18:55

"Usual suspects. What is their locus standi?"

Grotesquely and relentlessly one-sided and single-minded document. No acknowledgement that there is a serious militancy/separatism/Islamism problem in Kashmir, and India is legitimately opposing it. We are given the impression from reading this report, that just about every encounter between militants and the security forces, is a fake one. But for every 'fake' incident, there would be a thousand real encounters.

Needless to say, the authors don't even bother going into the nature of the Kashmir movement, and whether it is something India should bow to. Or the consequences, ideological and security wise, of giving in to such a cause.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Oct 2011 19:28

Pioneer follow-up on NC worker custodial death:

Plot thickens-Omar on backfoot

With fresh revelations about the alleged patronage to corruption in the highest echelons of power in Jammu & Kashmir, the mysterious custodial death of a senior ruling National Conference functionary has got murkier. Pushed on the back foot, Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has announced setting up a judicial commission, but has been unable to silence his critics.

Political observers in Kashmir say that it requires no knowledge of rocket science to assess the scale of corruption when the Chief Minister’s representative in his prestigious constituency is admitting that he paid a whopping amount of Rs 84 lakh to get nominated to the Upper House of the legislature on way to becoming a Cabinet Minister.

This clearly reveals the proximity of the deceased NC worker, Syed Muhammad Yousuf, with decision-makers of the ruling party. Yousuf’s death on September 30 morning, a night after he was handed over to crime branch of the Jammu & Kashmir Police by Chief Minister Omar Abdullah, has opened a can of worms.

On the face of it, Yousuf died of “cardio-respiratory arrest”, which can be passed off as a routine condition for a 61-year-old person, but the circumstances which led to his sudden death cannot be easily brushed aside.

The Chief Minister says that he expected a pat on the back for handing over Yousuf to the crime branch when two of his party workers complained against him. One of the complainants, Abdus Salam Rishi, counters the Chief Minister’s claim. “I brought this issue to the Chief Minister’s notice, two-and-a-half month back. Why didn’t he hand over Yousuf to crime branch then? Why the matter came to fore only after Yousuf’s death?” he said.

Yousuf’s son Talib Hussain, who is pursing PhD in Agriculture, swears by his father’s proximity to Omar Abdullah, Farooq Abdullah and junior Home Minister Nasir Aslam Wani. “Just trace out the call records on my father’s cellphone. You will come to know how many times he used to get calls from the trio every day,” he said.

Rishi, who lost 2008 Assembly election in Kokernag after being denied mandate by People’s Democratic Party, says that it was Yousuf, who introduced him to Omar Abdullah and Farooq Abdullah. He said, “I told Omar Abdullah that I paid money to Yousuf because he had introduced me to you.”

Rishi confronts police claims that Yousuf was not “very abnormal” when he was whisked away from Chief Minister’s residence to crime branch headquarters.

“I saw him vomiting blood when he was coming out of Chief Minister’s residence and was taken into a police vehicle,” he said.

{So CM's house was being used as a torture chamber for party workers.}

Opposition PDP has raised furor over Yousuf’s death and disrupted Assembly procedures in the two-day autumn session. “We were protesting against the cause that led to Yousuf’s death. We wanted to discuss the issue of brazed political corruption but the ruling coalition scuttled our democratic pursuit,” said PDP legislator Nizamuddin Bhat.

“We have now decided to take it to the people’s court. We will organise anti-corruption rallies throughout the State and continue to press for the resignation of Chief Minister, junior Home Minister and Union Minister Farooq Abdullah,” he told The Pioneer.

The National Panther’s party and the BJP have also demanded Chief Minister’s resignation and announcement of mid-term poll in the State. But, the real threat to the ruling party comes from the PDP.

“The PDP is desperate to be in power. They want the National Conference to disappear from the scene,” Farooq Abdullah told the media here on Thursday at party headquarters Nawai Subh after a meeting party’s senior workers from across the Valley.

This was Farooq’s first appearance after the controversy over corruption in the high echelons hit the party. “They want power at any cost. That’s why they are leveling all sorts of allegations against Chief Minister Omar Abdullah and the NC,” he said.

He swore that he was not party to “whatever has happened”, apparently indicated to Rishi’s claim that deceased Yousuf wanted to clear his position in presence of Farooq Abdullah. While the Chief Minister has claimed that Yousuf hired a mimic who spoke to his clients on phone in Farooq Abdullah’s voice, Rishi claimed that he had meet Farooq Abdullah in person along with Yousuf.

The National Conference is attempting to pass the furor over the death as PDP’s attempt to dislodge the party and create aspersions about its leadership. “This was their aim from the day one. When NC-Congress coalition was formed, PDP informed New Delhi that they did not want any post but don’t bring the NC to power,” he said. “Why does the PDP forget that it is not just the NC that is in the Government, Congress is there as well? Why do they always target the NC?” he asked.

Interestingly, the Government insists the truth about Yousuf’s death would be unraveled by the judicial commission. However, the larger question remains that the controversy is not on the death of Yousuf, but on the circumstances, which lead to his death. Will the judicial commission find out whether the money was transacted at the instance of Chief Minister or his confidante junior Home Minister Nasir Wani and Union Minister Farooq Abdullah, asks senior journalist Rashid Ahmad.

Be that as may be Farooq bhai how about the basic issue of using govt officials as your party enforcers leading to custodial death in state prison. What about the apparent beating in CM house leading to hospitalization of the party worker?

Your dear son appears not only a cheater on his wife but a stealer and a killer of his party workers. If you have any sense you will disaband the NC. The sheikh did not expect the NC to turn into this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Oct 2011 01:49

Hindu reports:
Panel to submit Kashmir Report to PC

Recall two of these were partaking of Fai's (and thus of ISI) hospitality. Fai's money bags died in Pak conveinently.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Oct 2011 06:19

Militant build-up across the LoC.
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/milit ... 111011.htm

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 12 Oct 2011 07:28

Jammu and Kashmir interlocutors to moot autonomy for Valley?
Randeep Singh NandalRandeep Singh Nandal, TNN | Oct 12, 2011, 06.28AM IST

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 321793.cms

Posting in full

SRINAGAR: The broad roadmap for a political settlement in Kashmir prepared by the three interlocutors appointed after last summer's unrest contains a mix of internal autonomy for Kashmir and regional councils for Jammu and Ladakh, according to sources. A special section of the report, which is expected to be submitted by Dileep Padgaonkar, Radha Kumar and M M Ansari to home minister P Chidambaram on Wednesday, also deals with problems of unemployment and alienation among the youth.

The autonomy formula tries to strike a balance between the Autonomy Report of the National Conference and the Self Rule Document of the People's Democratic Party. The erosion of Article 370 and restoration of pre-1953 status is borrowed from NC; the report incorporates the PDP's concession that the 47-odd presidential orders that brought the state closer to India since 1956 could be debated by the J&K assembly, to decide which should be retained.

For the past one year, every attempt by the interlocutors to meet the separatists has failed. But, there is a bit in the report for the separatists as well: A version of soft borders, increased trade, inter-Kashmir travel and the trade vision of former Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf. That's something everyone in the separatist camp barring Syed Ali Shah Geelani would welcome.

'Autonomy only viable solution'

The report by J&K interlocutors, say sources, contains a mix of internal autonomy for Kashmir and regional councils for Jammu and Ladakh.

The Centre is not obliged to implement the recommendations, but the fact that it appointed the interlocutors gives the report official sheen. This could create more trouble for the Centre than what it may have bargained for. "It puts down on paper what the Indian government has long privately argued: This is the only viable solution to offer to the separatists. But this was never discussed openly. This could be the ace that the Hurriyat could offer to the Kashmiri people," said a Hurriyat source. "If this is put down in black and white without the Hurriyat and without Pakistan, then what's the path for the moderates? Should we all congratulate NC and change jobs?" the Hurriyat source added.

Even the regional council formula has problems. J&K's three regions have contradictory views on Article 370 and its impact. While Jammu and Ladakh favour integration, the majority view in the Valley favours greater autonomy. "This would be de facto trifurcation of Kashmir, with Ladakh and Jammu pulling one way and the Valley another," said the Hurriyat source. Part of the interlocutors' problem is the policy drift at the Centre. It has talked in different voices: converting LoC into international border one day, and the 1994 Parliament resolution mandating the return of PoK and Northern Areas to India, on another.

There are 22 seats vacant in assembly for members from these areas. There's a mismatch between talking to the Hurriyat and at the same time recognizing the assembly as the sole representatives of Kashmiris. This assessment in the report could expose faultlines. "If the Centre believes this could be a solution, then it has to let the assembly decide. If it does, could this be the final settlement of Kashmir?" asked a J&K politician. The other contradiction in the report is it talks about the failure to implement Central schemes as a reason for alienation, even though it's because of Article 370 key laws like Panchayati Raj, RTI and vigilance commission were delayed.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Oct 2011 09:51

DNA writes

LiNK

It is now clear that interlocutor on Kashmir Radha Kumar was not being very honest when she claimed she had been “asked” by the Centre to attend an ISI-funded conference on Kashmir, which was hosted by Abdul Majeed Tramboo in Brussels.

Replies received by DNA to queries under the RTI Act shows that neither Kumar sought permission nor was she asked by the external affairs or home ministry to attend the conference. She went abroad to attend the ISI-backed conference and was hosted by Tramboo there. Her travel expenses were picked up by Tramboo.

This also raises questions on what kind of background checks was done by the government before choosing Kumar and Dileep Padgaonkar as interlocutors on Kashmir. Worse, according to the government’s, the choice was made personally by “prime minister Manmohan Singh and home minister P Chidambaram”.

Interestingly, the interlocutors are expected to file their report to the union home minister on Wednesday.

In their RTI replies, the ministry of home affairs (MHA) and ministry of external affairs (MEA) denied giving permission to Kumar and Padgaonkar to attend the conferences/events organised by ISI agents Ghulam Nabi Fai and Abdul Majeed Tramboo.

The role of Kumar and Padgaonkar had come under glare after it was found that both had taken hospitality of ISI-funded lobbyists by attending seminars and conferences in the US and Brussels. The third interlocutor, MA Ansari, had demanded that Padgaonkar and Kumar resign when this controversy broke out.

In its reply, the MEA said the J&K interlocutors “did not require political clearance” as they “are not government officials”, which shows how the Centre has allowed the J&K interlocutors to operate freely and make merry on the funds of Pakistan-sponsored lobbyists.

When contacted by DNA seeking clarification, Kumar said, “Sorry, I do not have time to comment on this ridiculous matter.”Then she said: “I didn’t need clearance. I said the government knew I was going and it was in the loop.”

Ironically, the MHA is also ignorant of the interlocutors attending any seminars or conference during their interlocution period. The MHA also said: “The names of group of interlocutors for J&K were decided at the level of prime minister and home minister.”

The ministry is also silent on query on checking the background of the three interlocutors including details of their visits abroad.Does it mean that the vital criteria needed for the sensitive job were set aside for personal preferences of the PM and the home minister?

This incident also led to some BR members leaving us and others sulking.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Oct 2011 15:20

looks like some people were getting freebie phoren shopping trips... the price of which was to say "may moot autonomy"

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 13 Oct 2011 02:21

Off late I have started seriously thinking that azadi pigs of Kashmir should be isolated big time and cut down to size of their willy. Jammu and Ladakh should be seriously separated from J and K and given their fare share on revenues, subsidies and their anti-terrorist support. Kashmir should be cut down to their size and a given conditional autonomy based on the condition that it is their responsibility to negotiate a deal similar to what India offers them for whole of Kashmir including Gilgit and Baltistan.
India should also advice these azadi pigs as well as their birathers that it does not hold any responsibility for any future attacks of pak to save their burning ar** like bangladeshis even if they face extermination at hands of their birathers on the other side of the Borders. India will simply not respond to their human rights needs and If such situation arises then India will only consider action only after autonomous government of Kashmir actually runs a plebicite vote on weather they want to remain or join India to save their a***. On the top all the Kashmiri pandits as well others displaced from the valley should be paid compensation both being displaced from their land to a tune of a million $ per head or any future Kashmir government will be held directly accountable for any death of resettled pandits if they decide to resettle kashmiri pandits in their homes. If they fail to meet the security obligations and right to freedom, it will automatically account for breach of accord and India will be in its right to invade Kashmir to ensure safety of pandits.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 13 Oct 2011 09:54

It's much more pragmatic to continue and increase a substantial state presence while undoing the KP ethnic cleansing steadily. Instead of taking a step back based on vague promises of accountability for resettled KPs' security; and then should the promise not hold (it's taqiyya 101), "invade" it.

I can't imagine any $ amount that can ever compensate for ethnic cleansing. Material aid is definitely needed for the exiled, but no amount of inducement can justify autonomy (another name for shariacracy).

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 13 Oct 2011 12:12

ramana wrote:DNA writes

LiNK

It is now clear that interlocutor on Kashmir Radha Kumar was not being very honest when she claimed she had been “asked” by the Centre to attend an ISI-funded conference on Kashmir, which was hosted by Abdul Majeed Tramboo in Brussels.

Replies received by DNA to queries under the RTI Act shows that neither Kumar sought permission nor was she asked by the external affairs or home ministry to attend the conference. She went abroad to attend the ISI-backed conference and was hosted by Tramboo there. Her travel expenses were picked up by Tramboo.

This also raises questions on what kind of background checks was done by the government before choosing Kumar and Dileep Padgaonkar as interlocutors on Kashmir. Worse, according to the government’s, the choice was made personally by “prime minister Manmohan Singh and home minister P Chidambaram”.

Interestingly, the interlocutors are expected to file their report to the union home minister on Wednesday.

In their RTI replies, the ministry of home affairs (MHA) and ministry of external affairs (MEA) denied giving permission to Kumar and Padgaonkar to attend the conferences/events organised by ISI agents Ghulam Nabi Fai and Abdul Majeed Tramboo.

The role of Kumar and Padgaonkar had come under glare after it was found that both had taken hospitality of ISI-funded lobbyists by attending seminars and conferences in the US and Brussels. The third interlocutor, MA Ansari, had demanded that Padgaonkar and Kumar resign when this controversy broke out.

In its reply, the MEA said the J&K interlocutors “did not require political clearance” as they “are not government officials”, which shows how the Centre has allowed the J&K interlocutors to operate freely and make merry on the funds of Pakistan-sponsored lobbyists.

When contacted by DNA seeking clarification, Kumar said, “Sorry, I do not have time to comment on this ridiculous matter.”Then she said: “I didn’t need clearance. I said the government knew I was going and it was in the loop.”

Ironically, the MHA is also ignorant of the interlocutors attending any seminars or conference during their interlocution period. The MHA also said: “The names of group of interlocutors for J&K were decided at the level of prime minister and home minister.”

The ministry is also silent on query on checking the background of the three interlocutors including details of their visits abroad.Does it mean that the vital criteria needed for the sensitive job were set aside for personal preferences of the PM and the home minister?

This incident also led to some BR members leaving us and others sulking.

Hmm, she was handpicked by MMS himself

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 13 Oct 2011 13:13

ashish raval wrote:Off late I have started seriously thinking that azadi pigs of Kashmir should be isolated big time and cut down to size of their willy. Jammu and Ladakh should be seriously separated from J and K and given their fare share on revenues, subsidies and their anti-terrorist support. Kashmir should be cut down to their size and a given conditional autonomy based on the condition that it is their responsibility to negotiate a deal similar to what India offers them for whole of Kashmir including Gilgit and Baltistan.
.

Separate statehood for Jammu and Laddkh will be of immense help in isolating the problem , not too different from treatment of cancer via chemotherapy, it can also damage some perfectly well functioning parts of the body if the cancer is not isolated. It will allow both these regions to develop rapidly in terms of infra , land acquisition will be significantly easier and the people will breate an immense sigh of relief at not being associated with Kashmir anymore. It'll also make the Kashmir issue a truly Kashmir centric one.

TSP claim on Kashmir is a moot point now, nobody's really bothered about that as long as army can keep infiltration in check, so the idea of conditional autonomy can be seriously explored. While India can hold territory and access , Kashmir should be free to decide on issues like internal security, trade with rest of India and world (bar TSP and china), infrastructure development (above army's requirement), currency , constitution etc.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Oct 2011 21:15

So no release or submission of the interlocutors report?
Spoken too soon!

Report submitted

J-K interlocutors moot ‘meaningful autonomy’

Submit report to Home Minister Chidambaram
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, October 12
Advocating “meaningful autonomy” and speedy development, the three interlocutors on Jammu and Kashmir submitted their report to Home Minister P Chidambaram on Wednesday, a year after they were appointed to draw a roadmap to peace, sources said.

The three-member panel comprising journalist Dileep Padgaonkar, academician Radha Kumar and former Information Commissioner MM Ansari regretted that people with separatist tendencies in Jammu and Kashmir had not come and met them.

Minutes after emerging from the North Block office, Padgaonkar, while replying to queries, said, “Had we spoken to separatists, the report would have been more worthwhile… They (separatists) missed the bus”. The report has taken into account both mainstream and off-stream opinions and in particular, various inputs from both Hurriyat factions whose stands on the matter are known publicly, he stated.

He went on to add that the aim of the report was to provide “a permanent political settlement in the state of J&K”.

The report would be shared with the all-party delegation and after that, put in the public domain. “We want a debate on the matter and would like to be available to the all-party delegation,” the veteran journalist added. The panel was formed after an all-party meet last year. The appointments were made when Kashmir situation had turned grim following street protests and killing of more than 100 youth.

Padgaonkar, who addressed mediapersons on behalf of the team, said, “This is the most accurate, comprehensive and broadest possible spectrum of opinion.” The team met 600 delegations across 22 districts of J&K. It also attended three round table conferences in which people from all three regions - Jammu, Srinagar and Ladakh - participated and went on to attend three mass gatherings.

The team has indicated it was in favour of ‘meaningful autonomy’ for Kashmir but, according to sources, it has avoided any reference to the word “azadi”, which is a complex issue of self-determination raised and interpreted differently by various groups. Padgaonkar, when asked about this, said, “I counsel patience to all those willing to comment on the report.” He turned down suggestions that Yasin Malik, a separatist leader, had rejected the report, saying, “How did he have access to it?”

Sources said the interlocutors had emphasised the need to reduce the Army’s visibility and address human rights violations urgently. The trio has also suggested that the government consider reviewing the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). The team has also talked about lifting the Disturbed Areas Act (DAA) from areas which are now near normal.

Lets see what the actual text says.

Maybe we can invite them or send them questions and they can respond if they want.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 Oct 2011 02:16

^^^ Maybe the report is getting revised after the ghoosa's

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Oct 2011 02:24

Objective of the report may be good but is it the right way to do it to get public support

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 Oct 2011 02:28

^^^ Given the antecedents of the interlocutors, I doubt if the objective would be good. An unbiased panel would have all perspectives but there is a complete slant in the panel along with their suspicious backgrounds.
Strange that the PM & HM would select a panel biased to write a report of a particular nature.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Oct 2011 02:58

Biased panel may be a psy ops. But national interest should be primary reason for panel

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Oct 2011 23:56

The India Cables (Wikileaks) at thehindu.com

Pakistan's unconventional viewpoint on terrorism

Mr. Soner “opined that Pakistan does not consider it terrorism.”
...
“It's not Turkey's job to take it (cross-border terrorism) up with them,”
...
Turkey needs that balance…in order to improve relations with India

The man had accepted pakistan's cross-border terrorism as per pakis' views.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Oct 2011 14:55

Disappointed, say Kashmiris to interlocutors' report

I am not sure if this a good news, as I have not seen the report as yet. But considering the outlook of the Interlocutor's, I will be great full if the disappointment of the KV Wahabies, if it is based in fact.

Rather then perception.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Oct 2011 00:57

http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/Ni ... 00205.aspx

India-Jammu and Kashmir State: Update. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah said in New Delhi on 12 October that the tough, long-standing laws that generate much of the unrest in his state could be withdrawn because of the decline in violence. The widely detested Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), enacted in 1990, gives security forces sweeping powers on detention, shooting of alleged militants and destruction of property suspected of being hideouts.

Comment: In the past five years, the separatist militancy has been reduced from a violent insurgency comparable to regions of Iraq in 2003 to a local police problem. Kashmir was so quiet this summer that 700,000 tourists visited the scenic region around Srinagar.

Before the onset of the Pakistan-based insurgency in 1989, tourism was the largest single source of income in the State. The Special Powers Act and the high visibility of security personnel were deterrents to tourism as security conditions improved and have been relaxed somewhat in the past four years.

Overwhelming police and paramilitary police presence backed by commandos, not by the Indian Army, succeeded in reducing the militant threat to a police problem, in about 15 years. The counter-insurgency in Kashmir always has been treated as a law and order problem, even at its height in the 1990s. The Army's primary role always has been border defense against Pakistan.

Omar Abdullah has been lobbying for the withdrawal or relaxation of the Special Powers Act since 2009 when he was named Chief Minister. His tenure has been beset with scandals and today's announcement is tainted because it appears calculated to divert attention from another recent scandal. Nevertheless, it also attests to Indian success in Kashmir as one of the two successful counter-insurgencies in the past two decades. The other was Sri Lanka's fight against the Tamil Tigers.

Pakistan also deserves credit for reducing its support for the Kashmir militants who operate from bases in Pakistani Kashmir. The decline began under Musharraf, but has continued under Prime Minister Gilani, as administered by Chief of Army Staff and Musharraf's hand-picked successor, General Kayani.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 17 Oct 2011 07:21

Apparently, our terrorist-right activists are getting into a hissy-fit about Kashmir being an integral part of India.

All started by Medha's statement on Kashmir...

Medha Patkar, one of the flag-bearers of the activist armada in the country, today termed Kashmir an integral part of India, leaving a section of her supporters embarrassed and fuming.
...
Kicking off the campaign, Patkar, who acquired a national profile after her campaign against the Narmada dam, said: “It (Kashmir) is an integral part of the Indian democratic state as of today. That is why elections are held and voting takes place.”

The articulation touched a raw nerve.

Who has a problem with this - Zamrooda associated with that uber-liberal, apolitical organization known as the Hurriyat...

Woman separatist leader Zamrooda Habib said Patkar’s remarks were regrettable. “Medha Patkar was an invitee like us and I personally had gone there to express my solidarity with Irom Sharmila, and not Patkar. If she (Patkar) subscribes to such views, she had better not spoken about the issue to avoid a controversy,” Habib said.
“India’s civil society claims to be apolitical but when it comes to Kashmir, they toe the line of their political parties,” Habib said.

Then up comes Pandey ji - the less said the better...

Sandeep Pandey, a Magsaysay award winner who launched the yatra along with Patkar, slammed Team Anna members. “Anna has been in the military. If you serve in the government and especially in the armed forces, obviously it will be difficult to overcome the feeling of nationalism,” he said. “People like us who believe in Gandhian philosophy feel that nationalism, caste, region or religion have divided people. The entire problem is about the concept of the nation state. We have to get rid of this concept and have a world where there are no national boundaries,” he added.

Ashis Nandy, who has no problems pointing fingers at the entire Gujarati community rationalizes thus...

“Medha’s pro-India sentiments are a result of nervousness,” sociologist Ashis Nandy said. “They are not willing to remember that at one point India had agreed to a plebiscite in Kashmir.”
Asked what provoked such nervousness, Nandy added: “Basically, it is their realisation that what has been happening in Kashmir (what the Indian government is doing there) is morally and ethically wrong. The more they know and realise this, the more nervous they become about accepting the reality.”

From http://www.telegraphindia.com/1111017/j ... 632881.jsp

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Oct 2011 07:30

^ Saar, could you please use quote instead of code in your post? It will be easy on the reader.

TIA

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Oct 2011 08:55

Time for someone to Bhushanise Ashis Nandy.

negi · Post by **negi** » 17 Oct 2011 09:12

Mofos who talk about liberation of Kashmir are in fact biggest enemies of the people in valley; have these chootiy@n@ndans ever thought about the implications on economy and living standard of people in J&K if it were to be allowed to be taken over by TSP (that is what giving azadi means practically)? Latter cannot take care of it's own people and living conditions of the folks in PoK are a testimony to TSP's governance. Any numb-nut who has access to the public info about the yearly central aid being doled out to J&K would realise that there is no way in hell that J&K will be able to generate that kind of money . In fact influx of jehadis from PoK will only create problems for neighbouring states like HP. The bozo who appointed likes of Miera kumar and Padgaonar on the panel of interlocutors is either smoking potent stuff or has gone senile.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Oct 2011 09:31

This Ganduan Assish Nandi's services are uregently required in Waziristan. Air drop him near HackAny HQ so he can practice his Gandhigiri with them.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Oct 2011 09:45

ramana wrote:Time for someone to Bhushanise Ashis Nandy.

Ramana ji,

Did you just invite some one to beat up this Nandi Chap?

He & the rest of the his Jamaat needs to be sidelined into oblivion, rather then beaten up. Much as I loved the the Bhushan treatment, it also disturbed me a great deal. I felt that with such actions the Indian Civil society will cross a thin line that separates us from the Barbarians next door.

We are a civilized people, we have sufficient intellectual capability to destroy such idiots using reason and persuasion.

JMT

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Oct 2011 10:02

^^ Sadly, only a jhapad on Bhushan made everyone sit up and notice the statements he had made on J&K.... No one had even cared about all his $%#^ utterances till the event happened and now everyone is out condemning Bhushan for his utterances.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Oct 2011 01:01

Ashish Nandy, if this is the guy I'm thinking of, the man with the ridiculous glasses, and weird goatee - well, this is a man who is in love with the image he has succeeded in creating of himself within the media/intelligentsia circles. Intellectually vain, but by no means any significant heavy weight he thrives on such occasional pop psychology one-liners that play in the media for a while now and then, get mentioned in books now and then. On the whole, however, this is an irrelevant man from a different era who has little resonance in the new India that is emerging... People may be more materialistic, less inclined to think about the future, etc, etc... but they are also less inclined to tolerate bombastic nonsense. And our man does not have much more to offer. He will have some cachet among those of his circle who serve the validation, propagation routine but, really, who gives a crap about Ashish Nandy?

Now if Virat Kohli said something like that I'd have a problem. But the young man is too serious and too sensible to come up with crap like that, and too busy making money and winning matches for India.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Oct 2011 02:23

Anindya wrote:
Who has a problem with this - Zamrooda associated with that uber-liberal, apolitical organization known as the Hurriyat...

Woman separatist leader Zamrooda Habib said Patkar’s remarks were regrettable. “Medha Patkar was an invitee like us and I personally had gone there to express my solidarity with Irom Sharmila, and not Patkar. If she (Patkar) subscribes to such views, she had better not spoken about the issue to avoid a controversy,” Habib said.
“India’s civil society claims to be apolitical but when it comes to Kashmir, they toe the line of their political parties,” Habib said.

Indian civil society is for national interest and not for any other purpose. National interest is the most important thing for the country.
There is a nation which is thriving and expecting everybody to work for the nation.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Oct 2011 02:29

Anindya wrote:
Then up comes Pandey ji - the less said the better...
Sandeep Pandey, a Magsaysay award winner who launched the yatra along with Patkar, slammed Team Anna members. “Anna has been in the military. If you serve in the government and especially in the armed forces, obviously it will be difficult to overcome the feeling of nationalism,” he said. “People like us who believe in Gandhian philosophy feel that nationalism, caste, region or religion have divided people. The entire problem is about the concept of the nation state. We have to get rid of this concept and have a world where there are no national boundaries,” he added.

Let the world start do its thing first and then India can follow. India cannot afford to have terrorist and enemies come inside the country on a free pass just because panday thinks it is the right thing to do.
1.2 B Indians cannot agree to one mans definition of what he thinks the world should be.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Oct 2011 02:33

Anindya wrote:
Ashis Nandy, who has no problems pointing fingers at the entire Gujarati community rationalizes thus...

“Medha’s pro-India sentiments are a result of nervousness,” sociologist Ashis Nandy said. “They are not willing to remember that at one point India had agreed to a plebiscite in Kashmir.”
Asked what provoked such nervousness, Nandy added: “Basically, it is their realisation that what has been happening in Kashmir (what the Indian government is doing there) is morally and ethically wrong. The more they know and realise this, the more nervous they become about accepting the reality.”

From http://www.telegraphindia.com/1111017/j ... 632881.jsp

This guy even toasted for English being inside India and english being a language of the Indians. Such a colonized mind is being awarded by the govt and considered an intellectual. He says that Indian ancient past and heritage is of no use for India.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Oct 2011 05:51

Kashmir is key to united India
WEDNESDAY, 19 OCTOBER 2011 21:43 LALIT AMBARDAR HITS: 1006
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The pliability of successive regimes in New Delhi towards the Kashmir issue, the Government’s failure to look beyond the Valley and incorporate the State’s many nationalist voices, the murderous silence over the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits and the K-complex of a billion strong nation have only given credence to the azadi propaganda. This will pave the way for the balkanisation of India

Propaganda that ‘azadi’ for Kashmir is inevitable will thrive so long as the politically relevant questions pertaining to the so called ‘Kashmir conflict’ pile up unanswered. The blow hot, blow cold approach of successive Union Governments has only allowed separatism, inspired by Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s Two-Nation Theory, to haunt India six decades after it rejected the divisive doctrine.

Beginning with the then Union Government’s voluntary reference to ‘referendum’ at the UN after Kashmir’s lawful accession to the Indian Union, the grant of a special status through Article 370 that was followed by the Delhi Declaration of 1952 that allowed further concessions such as a separate flag, etc, the pliability exhibited by New Delhi is germane to the subsequent growth of fissiparous tendencies that now challenge the sovereignty of India over the State of Jammu & Kashmir.

Such follies committed over the decades have only fostered rapacious extremism. For instance, former Prime Minister PV Narasimha Rao’s declaration that the “sky was the limit” for autonomy in faraway Burkina Faso in 1995 was preceeded by a Special Resolution of Parliament in 1994 that clearly stated that the status of the Jammu & Kashmir State is “non-negotiable”. The 1994 resolution had in effect made the State’s territorial integrity non-negotiable for any Government.

Yet, in 2000 then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee said in an emotional outburst that anything was possible within the ambit of humanity (“Insaniyat ke daiyre mein”) — a statement that tended diluted his party’s own position on Kashmir. Similarly, today Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s Government is poring over the Kashmir interlocuter’s report “contours of Kashmir solution” — an apparent acknowledgement of Kashmir being a matter of dispute — despite his own assertion made from the ramparts of Red Fort on Independence Day in 2010 that “Kashmir was integral part of India.”

This is how a politically insignificant dissent has been allowed to mutate into a conflict. Kashmir is a classic case wherein a conflict has been craftily engineered to gather empathy by pleading victimhood of that very conflict as in evident from the violence that gripped the Valley in the summer of 2010 months before the arrival of US President Brack Obama.

It is worthwhile to note that the separatists have no qualms in claiming that Kashmir was an unfinished agenda of Partition. Today, the movement continues to feed on anti-India venom spewed at Friday congregations. Indian ‘rule’ in Kashmir is challenged right in the country’s capital at various forums in brazen connivance with self-acclaimed rights groups. The growing support from the Maoists and home-grown radical Islamists signals an impending alliance of anti-national forces.

Conspicuous silence over the systematic ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits, who were targeted for they professed a different faith and were seen as symbolising ‘Indian presence’ in the Valley, has only served to boost the moral of the perpetrators. It is a blot on India’s secular democracy that those who had lived in the State for five thousand years have now been rendered refugees in their own country. There has not been even a murmur of protest against this atrocity.

How and when will ‘a billion strong’ nation overcome the complex that kept its leaders on tenterhooks fearing President Obama might mention the K-word in his speech to Parliament? Why is it difficult to remind the world that the much touted UN resolution of 1948 defines Pakistan as an ‘occupier’? Indeed, the UN Security Council Resolution 47(1948) had entrusted Indian forces with maintaining law and order in Kashmir. Any referendum was to follow only after the Pakistanis had vacated Kashmir which of course never happened.

In the context it is worthwhile to take a look at the historical circumstances that pushed India’s most known liberal statesman, Jawahar Lal Nehru, to dismiss and arrest his ‘friend,’ the then Wazir-e-Azam of Jammu & Kashmir, Sheikh Abdullah, in 1953. Nehru may have mishandled the issue but even his worst detractors will not accuse him of betrayal. In fact, Sheikh himself never publicly accused Nehru of having cooked up the ‘Kashmir conspiracy case’.

Why then is it sacrilegious to postulate that the ongoing Cold War machinations of the time had possibly influenced Abdullah, who had in 1947 endorsed the accession of Kashmir to India, to flirt with the idea of independence in 1953? A widened Wakhan corridor, with Kashmir included, meant a stronger buffer against Soviet expansion in South Asia.

The question then is could Nehru put at stake India’s new found independence for the sake of personal bonding with Abdullah? After all, the latter’s Plebiscite Front had openly challenge Indian sovereignty over Kashmir. It was dissolved only after the reconciliatory Sheikh-Indira accord that saw Abdullah instated as the Chief Minister of Jammu & Kashmir in 1975. Is it then mandatory to renegotiate the status of Kashmir with every generation of Kashmiris?

The present turmoil began when an anti-India jihad was launched by armed Kashmiris and mujahiddins from the Afghan War in 1989-90. Since then, jihadis have struck at will across the nation. India remains a soft target. Yet the Union Government had the temerity to commit a Sharm-el Sheikh. And now the time has been allowed to drown the wails of the victims of the 26/11 carnage, while the state chooses to dilute its own stand on ‘terror’ by resuming the ‘peace process’ with Pakistan within whose borders the perpetrators of one of the worst terror attacks in modern history are roaming free.

But thats not all. Even though India’s support to Palestinians is well acknowledged yet, the global community has unfairly clubbed the situation in Kashmir with the long festering West Asian dispute to embarrass the world’s largest secular democracy. Unconcerned about India’s national interests, foreign diplomats routinely visit separatists in Kashmir. Why is India obliged to repeatedly prove its secular credentials?

Moreover, why has there been no significant attempt by the Government to reach out to the common Kashmiri in the Valley? These are the people who time and again have braved terror threats to partici-pate in elections in overwhelming numbers to show their faith in Indian democracy. Last year when all-party delegation visited the State, they ignored Ladakh which had just suffered its worst natural calamity while its engagement in Jammu appeared to be a mere formality. How can these people who have professed their unconditional loyalty for India be kept out of the discourse on Kashmir? Why isn’t there any move to cultivate the hitherto ignored nationalistic voices in the State?

Jammu & Kashmir acceded under the same Instrument of Accession Act that was signed by more than five hundred other princely states. The accession was publicly acknowledged by the thunderous applause of the largest ever gathering in the historic Lal Chowk in Srinagar in 1948. At the time, Sheikh Abdullah had embraced Jawahar Lal Nehru and recited the Persian couplet: “Man Tu Shudi, Tu Man Shudi; Tas Kas Na Goyed, Man Degram Tu Degre” (I became you, you became I, so none can say we are separate). It is only later that the inability to counter individual aspirations let Kashmir slip in to a quagmire of uncertainty. It is time to take a corrective course for any compromise in Kashmir is a sure recipe for the ‘balkanisation ‘of India.

Krishan 2011-10-20 11:40
We should be grateful to Lalit Ambardar who has separated the wheat from chaff in his article on India and Kashmir. Being next door to Pakistan, India has been "living next door to a serial murderer" (to borrow from Barry Rubin). India will have to deal with it. Fortunately, India is capable of it as Mrs. Indira Gandhi showed back in 1971. It is tragic that Indian politicians at the highest level since then, in order to humor and placate this "serial murderer," have only vented their frustrations by blowing hot and cold, instead of following a consistent policy and language that Pakistan (and Indians including Kashmiris) would understand. The West that fed and nurtured the beast in Pakistan finally realized that hyenas cannot be tamed and turned into hound dogs, if the last testimony of Admiral Mike Mullen to US Congress is to be believed. India must have its house in order, which includes Kashmir, if it were to survive the challenges of the next two decades.
Quote

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Oct 2011 05:58

http://www.pakistankakhudahafiz.com/201 ... r-mirwaiz/

The APHC Chairman urged the pro-freedom leaders and common people to maintain consistency in achieving the goal of right of self-determination. “Since 1931, Kashmiris have witnessed many rulers and their rule. Still they are fighting for the right to self-determination. The goal will be achieved one day as the Kashmiris are expressing their full support to the movement,” he stated.
The Mirwaiz said that the Indian civil society too had started raising its voice for resolution of the dispute even as the lunatic elements and fascist bigots were trying to silence it. “The government of India is hiding the truth about Kashmir from its people but the way the members of civil society are raising their voices proves that existence of the issue can no longer be wished away,” he said.
Referring to the peaceful protests of the Kashmiri people between 2008 and 2010, the APHC Chairman said that these demonstrations had jolted the conscience of international community, which was evincing greater interest in resolving the long-pending dispute. He pointed out that the Kashmiri people wanted good neighbourly ties between Pakistan and India. “However, the relations between them cannot improve until the Kashmir dispute is resolved,” he asserted.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Oct 2011 06:51

Geelani to consider Indian talks offer
http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... alks-offer

Geelani said the decision to accept or reject the dialogue offer can be taken only after ‘checking the nature of offer’ and the ‘decision of advisory council’.
The positive signals for dialogue have come at a time when there are indications that the Indian government may make dialogue offer to the Kashmiri leaders. This is for the first time that hardliners are ready to discuss any dialogue offer from Delhi. In the past, Geelani had maintained that his amalgam will talk to the Indian government only when it accepts the disputed status of Jammu and Kashmir, releases political prisoners and revokes special powers to the Indian armed forces. Meanwhile, talking to reporters in Srinagar on Thursday, Geelani rebuffed Hizbul Mujahideen chief Syed Salahuddin’s appeal against talking to the Indian government, saying he does not take ‘dictations’.“We take our own decisions here and dictations are not taken by us,” he said. Geelani said his Hurriyat faction would accept India’s talks offer only after a formal invitation. “The talks offer in that case will be discussed in the advisory council of (his Hurriyat faction,” he told reporters.

( After Fai became US Jamai and Gillani and his ilks lost their Kamai for Chitter Gissai now fearing Paki Kasai, Budduo ko GOI ki Yaad Ayye)

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Oct 2011 10:43

Flash news:

10:57 AM AFPSA will be removed in next few days: Omar:

#LatestNews

Jammu and Kashmir chief minister announces that the extremely contentious Armed Forces Special Powers Act and Disturbed Areas Act will be removed from some areas in the state within the next few days.

Chief Minister Omar Abdullah last week, had briefed Union Home Minister P Chidambaram about the improved security situation in the state.

Emerging from an hour-long meeting with Chidambaram, Omar told mediapersons that he had a meeting with the home minister to have a "comprehensive review" of the security situation in the state.

"During the meeting, we also discussed the possibility of removal of AFSPA and Disturbed Areas Act from certain parts of the state. I will return and have a discussion with my cabinet colleagues and officers, after which we can take a decision," Omar said.

He, however, cautioned this did not mean that there "will be an overnight revocation of AFSPA or Disturbed Areas Act from the entire state."

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Oct 2011 11:29

^^^

I hope and pray that after the removal of the disturbed areas notification. Parts of the Valley don't become like the bad lands of TSP.

anchal · Post by **anchal** » 21 Oct 2011 11:41

Omar has been caught on wrong foot many times in the past few months latest being his "advice" to a journalist regarding comenting o Islam. First 3 idiots report, then AFSPA sermon, let us hope GoI knows the trade-offs here
As an aside, I have been pursuing an uber Canadian telecom company to correct their map of India on Career site. So far have been partially successful. I have specified GOI approved map to them. The response from their Marketing team has been prompt.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Oct 2011 13:26

Instead of relaxing AFSPA, why not withdraw army from the Valley. and put them on the borders. J&K police should be responsible for fighting and none of them should waste their time protecting politicians of the state.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 21 Oct 2011 20:28

Aditya_V wrote:Instead of relaxing AFSPA, why not withdraw army from the Valley. and put them on the borders. J&K police should be responsible for fighting and none of them should waste their time protecting politicians of the state.

My 2 cents only: AFPSA comes in when issue becomes too much for lathi-dhaari police to deal with. This part is missing in the discourse for it may inflate feelings of hardliners.