News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 00:03

Joahnn, All those labels are nom de geurre for TSP!
Will be discarded as needed.

Shaymd,
Maybe the ISI and TSPA top guys sold someone else out (Pasha lightning visit, non-action by TSPA in Kakul, FizzleYa non-presence* etc) but US went out for OBL? Now the TSPA can't reveal their co-operation as it reveals more of their perfidy. Besides who will believe them now as they have lied about simple things!

Like in the Sherlock Holmes story" Case of Silver Blaze" the curious thing is the dog that didnt bark or in this the TSP Military case didnt show up!

And what about the Pak military helicopter that crashed?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 04 May 2011 00:04

In the picture posted by Chaanakya, there is a foreigner in the middle of the picture with a black t-shirt and khaki trousers... Unusual. I suspect a member of some foreign media crew, judging by what looks like a boom-mike in his right hand, but it may not be...

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 04 May 2011 00:06

The Trash leftist network of NDTV putting their own spin on behalf of Pakistan terrorists

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/pak-t ... -103207?cp

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2011 00:06

Nandu wrote:What is the Urdu writing on the wall (probably irrelevant - still...)?

http://www.pakreviews.com/schools/abbot ... lic-school

Head Office

Address: College Road, Kareempura, Abbottabad
Landmark: College Road,Kareempura
City: Abbottabad

Phone: +92-992-330643
Mobile: 0300-4514962

Branch Office

Address: Kakool, Near Bilal Masjid, Abbottabad
Landmark: Near Bilal Masjid
City: Abbottabad
Phone: +92-992-330643, 344452

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 04 May 2011 00:07

there were much better ways to have sold obl out. this is like cutting your nose to spite your face. no lifting your skirt to cover your face.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 04 May 2011 00:07

shaardula wrote:shyamd,

to me commonsense says that once the op started even if tsp knew they could have done nothing. no#1. given that there were helis and high tech soldiers, abdul police could not have engaged or done anything to stall or divert the op. they would have deferred to military guys who would immediately know that the forces were american. there is no way they would engage. ombaba would have come out and said we were taking out obl.

Let me add here that this response is strikingly similar to Pakistani state responses to jihadi attacks in broad daylight.

Local police forces have low morale, and have no interest in intervening even if its going on next to them - they will often passively wait for orders, unless they are being attacked themselves, in which case they will get on the radio.

Local Army and paramilitary units will get on the radio, and ask for orders, which do not always come quickly.

Finally, Army commanders at the top are never eager to get in to direct confrontations except on their own terms, at a time and place of their chosing. Most of the time they are more interested in keeping whatever truce is going.

Lastly the ISI's job is to go around intimidating all witnesses in to shutting their mouths in order to make sure that they do not contradict or undermine the official ISPR narrative.

The civilian leadership if there is one, will condemn any and all civilian deaths, extremism and violations of sovereignty.

Its really not that different when the US conducts unilateral drone strikes.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 May 2011 00:09

rasiklal wrote:
She [Rachel Maddow] was brought into MSNBC by Keith Olbermann
She's the smartest journalist I've known in these parts. She is a Stanford grad, Rhodes Scholar and Oxford grad. She used to work for Air America (AM radio) at one time, which in the US you would do only if you are smart and honest and committed, given how poorly liberal talk radio does in comparison to the bigoted blowhard right wing talk radio.

Ahem Ahem, I used to listen to her in AM before Keith brought her in; then she brought in Ed {Big Ed}. Stephanie Miller is the one still who has to get a TV slot from that crew. She was in the running for Larry King's show....but she is hard core liberal from a conservative family. And to top that she came out of the closet recently. Did not know if that worked against her. Talking about education and qualification, there is this Sheila Dharmarajan, from Srilanka on Bloomberg TV who has bunch of good qualification from reputed Us. She continues to play second fiddle to Betty Lu. In my parts, liberal radio transmission has lots of static noise than conservative radios. However, Rachel is more palatable than Stephani Miller. Stephani is a comedian, she will make fart jokes.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 04 May 2011 00:11

Amber G. wrote:Now here .. one shameless Paki tells how he was hit below the belt...
High Commissioner defends Pakistan role in bin Laden death
A few minutes video and the story..barf bag advised.

The first words out the High Commissioner's mouth.

"It was a Pakistani messenger who led them on to the place where he was hiding..so we are not being given credit for anything unfortunately..we have been at the forefront of everything"

The same courier who was in Bin Laden's pay and whose error got the great leader 'deaded'?

You want to take 'credit' that an accomplice of a terrorist, and who betrayed the same terrorist because of his mistake, was a Pakistani, you stupid, inbred, vacuous moron?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 00:13

JE Menon wrote:In the picture posted by Chaanakya, there is a foreigner in the middle of the picture with a black t-shirt and khaki trousers... Unusual. I suspect a member of some foreign media crew, judging by what looks like a boom-mike in his right hand, but it may not be...

The one next to that guy is a wanabe bullpit bacchi *!

* Christine Unfair calls herself that.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 00:15

Has the courier guy been identified? I know he and his brother are among those killed. Poetic/ironic justice!

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 May 2011 00:16

There is a thought that the crashed chopper is an unmanned decoy. Is it hot air or is it really possible?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 00:20

ShyamD, Story getting worse!

WH OBL unarmed when killed

Both he and his wife were unarmed.
So all that firefight stuff is non-sense.

WH adviser had gone public with OBL firing a shot etc..

He will be gone for lying.

repubs will get him for that.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 04 May 2011 00:21

Sukumar wrote:
Rahul M wrote:discussion on the mystery helo over at milphotus.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... Laden-raid
The US chopper that crashed was an AH-6 Little Bird. Small and nimble, just the right size to land inside high walled compounds. http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9331 ... zy2wd9.jpg

Speculation on my part but I believe this chopper has noise reduction tech associated with it. some real TFTA stuff.. Notice that none of the witness woke up to noise from the choppers but rather gun fire and bomb blasts.. The seals would need this stuff more than anyone else.. and there for the need to destroy any obvious mods that could be copied..
Another thought the fact that OBL had no phone (no cell phones either..) and cable meant also they could not call the nearest ISI or friendly local general either when the fire fight started dooming him to die in place..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 00:25

Popular Science calls it a new design secret stealth helicopter.

Secret Stealth Helicopter used

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 04 May 2011 00:25

I assume they would tear that building down and let shanties come in? Anything else would end up as intent to make this a shrine.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 04 May 2011 00:26

ramana wrote:
WH OBL unarmed when killed

In that story:

The trove of materials collected from the compound includes 10 hard drives, five computers and more than 100 storage devices, a senior U.S. official told CNN Tuesday -- material that investigators hope will yield clues to help break the al Qaeda network and thwart future terrorist attacks.

Among the storage devices are disks, DVDs and thumb drives, the source said.

That whoosh sound you just heard was the Pakjabi army high command evacuating its collective bowels.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2011 00:27

Sukumar wrote:
Rahul M wrote:discussion on the mystery helo over at milphotus.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... Laden-raid
The US chopper that crashed was an AH-6 Little Bird. Small and nimble, just the right size to land inside high walled compounds. http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9331 ... zy2wd9.jpg

not quite, IMO.

Sathish_A · Post by **Sathish_A** » 04 May 2011 00:29

What are those pipe like thing above the pandu???
http://img705.imageshack.us/i/myikv.jpg/

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 04 May 2011 00:47

ramana wrote:Popular Science calls it a new design secret stealth helicopter.

Secret Stealth Helicopter used

Soon to be photographed in full with "iPhan" brand phones by shrub dwelling "aviation enthusiasts of Chengdu Ring Road" during its maiden flight

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2011 00:51

Sam wrote:.........
I too suspect that Osama was sold out by ISI as a sign of cooperation post Raymond Davis episode. This all can be confirmed if Hillary goes to Pakistan with big bags of money.

sold out in a deal that has laden leaving in luxury beside PMA kakul ? what are the chances of that ?

p.s what is it in Indian genes that we always try to make life easier for people who have nothing but hatred for us ? why this superhuman effort to show 'ISI is a good boy onlee' ?

we really are lemming like in our deathwish.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2011 00:56

Sathish_A wrote:What are those pipe like thing above the pandu???
http://img705.imageshack.us/i/myikv.jpg/

Looks like electrical supply line., There are three or four separate connections lines running to the house. This one seems underground cable connected line.,

CS Monitor says no census mark on the house. Seems they knew and avoided the house, unlike others in the locality.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... us-markers

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 04 May 2011 00:57

Singha wrote:who are the other gents around the table and standing in that POTUS ops room pic?
is that joseph biden to the right of Obama? who is the military officer and the two sitting gents - must be pretty high ranked to get 'gold class' 1st row seats for this show.

has anyone in media id'ed these people?

The actual photo is on the White house flickr photostream - http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse ... hotostream

Seated, from left, are: Brigadier General Marshall B. “Brad” Webb, Assistant Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command; Deputy National Security Advisor Denis McDonough; Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton; and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. Standing, from left, are: Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; National Security Advisor Tom Donilon; Chief of Staff Bill Daley; Tony Binken, National Security Advisor to the Vice President; Audrey Tomason Director for Counterterrorism; John Brennan, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism; and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. Please note: a classified document seen in this photograph has been obscured. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 04 May 2011 00:59

Rahul M wrote: p.s what is it in Indian genes that we always try to make life easier for people who have nothing but hatred for us ? why this superhuman effort to show 'ISI is a good boy onlee' ? we really are lemming like in our deathwish.

indeed!! Posters upon posters are talking about a sell-out! There was no sellout here.

OBL is beyond value for US. They wont negotiate, they will just walk in and take his life. As they did finally, when they were sure of success. And pakis know that from "Tora Bora +1" day. That is why they protected him so close to their own high-value military individuals for so long. They are already getting their whiskey crates from lesser value cretins, but selling out OBL was not in the cards.

This is gross ineptitude of ISI and paki military in not being able to protect him, despite their best try. And they didnt even know the fast action happening in their back yard! Shows the lame-ass enemy we have from a competence perspective. Where is that clown Brian Cloughly?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 04 May 2011 01:00

ramana wrote:ShyamD, Story getting worse!

WH OBL unarmed when killed

Both he and his wife were unarmed.
So all that firefight stuff is non-sense.

WH adviser had gone public with OBL firing a shot etc..

He will be gone for lying.

repubs will get him for that.

Lol, but he read out the statement - so it came from someone with authority.

Okay, I've watched enough TV to think I am a military man (Jagdish Bauer and all that). So anyways, how would I approach the operation?

I would have dropped off 20 or 30 soldiers (maybe more) in neighbouring fields to walk towards and surround the compound - take up positions etc. Meanwhile, I would launch a covert raid to take out any unsuspecting abduls providing security and STORM the building. So next helicopter comes in on the side and drops 10/15 soldiers, perhaps drop a few on the roof too and give aerial support to the operation. UAVs/satellites watching all the bases/police stations to keep an eye if any movement. I mean come on it would have been a part of any planning.

I would have left about 20 outside to stop any potential escape of individuals and I would instruct them, to put a bullet in anyone approaching the compound from outside or the main road ( I would probably go as far as having a separate team on the ground or in the air to provide support if necessary).

Once mission in operation, I would have phoned up GHQ and said Stand down your forces.

And also lets be honest OBL is just symbolic. I doubt his operational power. Great timing to do this, elections, Obama is politically not doing great, TSP relations bad etc.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2011 01:00

Flightglobal says the destroyed Heli appears to be Sikorsky UH 60 Black Hawk.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ealed.html

trivedi · Post by **trivedi** » 04 May 2011 01:00

The despair on the PigDefenceForums about the decrepit state of their nation/leaders/populace is so thick you could cut it with a knife but they are simultaneously trumpeting their superiority over kafirs. Believing in contradictory ideas must be a national skill.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 04 May 2011 01:02

perhaps gagan et al can confirm. but the compound had no immediate neighbors right?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2011 01:03

even mini-pakistan is catching on.

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/s ... tcount=155

Pakistani military advertisement slogan: "Join The Pakistan Defense Forces: Terrorizing the World Since 1947"

partha · Post by **partha** » 04 May 2011 01:04

If ISI gave up OBL, then why in Abbottabad is the Q. They could have done it somewhere near Afghan border and saved their ass no?

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 04 May 2011 01:06

ramana wrote:Popular Science calls it a new design secret stealth helicopter.

Secret Stealth Helicopter used

You strap on a couple of bulls in front of that thing and you can use it to till the ground.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 May 2011 01:08

Watch in this BBC video how the ISI used to regularly check IDs of all people who used to roam around this area, more so after sundown.

More and more news trickles in about ISI directly protecting this known safehouse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13274946

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2011 01:08

Rahul M wrote:
Sam wrote:.........
I too suspect that Osama was sold out by ISI as a sign of cooperation post Raymond Davis episode. This all can be confirmed if Hillary goes to Pakistan with big bags of money.
sold out in a deal that has laden leaving in luxury beside PMA kakul ? what are the chances of that ?

p.s what is it in Indian genes that we always try to make life easier for people who have nothing but hatred for us ? why this superhuman effort to show 'ISI is a good boy onlee' ? we really are lemming like in our deathwish.

RahulMullah

ISI and TSPA's involvement in OBL's execution (he was unarmed it seems) has its own implications... Everything is fair in love and war

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 May 2011 01:12

Pakis were caught with their pants down. The complete silence and lack of rehearsed statements are dead giveaways. Their statements have been very comical to say the least.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 04 May 2011 01:13

RamaY wrote:
ISI and TSPA's involvement in OBL's execution (he was unarmed it seems) has its own implications... Everything is fair in love and war

it is not a good implication
1) as reward for the sellout, ISI will get more US money for use against India
2) jihadis are the only ones who might get pissed at the implication and the damage they can do is not enough

"ISI betrayed US Govt's trust by hiding him and stealing money" is the one

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 04 May 2011 01:15

suryag wrote:I still am missing one piece in the puzzle. How did Khan dada's men know that there was no tunnel from this house to elsewhere ?

Khan has satellites with ground penetrating radar. A few sweeps by one such satellite and they would be 400% sure.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2011 01:16

whichever makes pakis bleed more hnair-saar...

There is too much Indian blood on these incestuous all-lies...

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 04 May 2011 01:16

Gus wrote:Pakis were caught with their pants down. The complete silence and lack of rehearsed statements are dead giveaways. Their statements have been very comical to say the least.

Well said

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 04 May 2011 01:17

Each blackhawk can carry 15 people? so 5 or 6 heli's involved in total, not the 4 as suggested.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2011 01:18

RamaY wrote: RahulMullah

ISI and TSPA's involvement in OBL's execution (he was unarmed it seems) has its own implications... Everything is fair in love and war

those implications are far less important than everyone and their mommy knowing that ISI hid laden.
the islamist groups will fight among each other(and against army) with or without those 'implications'.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 May 2011 01:23

1.

shaardula wrote:perhaps gagan et al can confirm. but the compound had no immediate neighbors right?

On the north end of the building (The base of the triangle) where the road is, there were two compounds right across the street where houses were getting built. But on all other sides there was no house in the immediate vicinity for like 50-100meters.

Perhaps the two houses that were being built in front were also to be taken over by the ISI as additional security points. Since OBL's specialty was building tunnels during the days of the Afghan Jihad, he might have planned a tunnel linking the various houses etc. Perhaps this house was his own design - who knows.

I am sure the ISI must have been preventing property dealers in the neighbourhood to sell any of the land around the compound. That land might have been bought by the ISI / Army who would have built buildings around to not make this house stand out with empty lands around specially when the entire neighbourhood was undergoing a building boom.

But this building and compound stuck out like a sore thumb.

This house will also serve as a guide to identify similar safe houses across pakistan where the ISI would have hidden other high value targets. The Pak army likes to standardize designs, and who knows there might be a couple of houses with the exact same design (Design of the building itself) high walls with barbed wires, but compounds with different shapes around in Pakistan.

All people who are good at google earth please look around military cantts in bigger cities for similar houses.

2. Another thing. A typical Pakistani army giveaway - a force of habit. In POK it is a very common practice for the Jihadis to have camps and living accomodation right next to pakistani army camps and cantonement walls. The Jihadis feel safe there. Also the Pakistani army can keep an eye on the jihadi soldiers, and can deweaponize the jihadis when the feel the need to do so.

In this context OBL's safehouse this close to a big military cantonement is hardly surprising. This house deep inside pakistan was never meant to be discovered, and OBL was never meant to be handed over to the US like this. This is sheer bad luck for Pakistan, and the US's skills and technology and perseverance that did pakistan's game in. As far as Pakistan is concerned, they had hid OBL well here.

If at some future date they had decided to give OBL up, he might have been moved to NWFP and then his location leaked to the US. But this was a case of Pakistan caught with their pants down.

3. The most important question that the media needs to start asking, but is not asking yet. Rachel Maddow did indicate, but did not go the whole hog.

What is the ISI's relationship to 9/11

Since they seem to be so chummy with the group's mentor which planned and carried out that attack.