Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 29 Mar 2010 13:32

IDK about 22SF, but establishment 22 was used for them even during 80s. I know this from a AMC officer who was posted with them in Siachen.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 31 Mar 2010 17:54

No body is telling me what badge is Maj.Udai Singh wearing on the right bottom next to the Balidan badge only

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 31 Mar 2010 18:19

hulaku wrote:No body is telling me what badge is Maj.Udai Singh wearing on the right bottom next to the Balidan badge only

Sorry, no idea. Wild guess - may have to do with number of jumps or some course he did abroad.

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 31 Mar 2010 18:46

hulaku wrote:No body is telling me what badge is Maj.Udai Singh wearing on the right bottom next to the Balidan badge only

SG Mavericks i suppose

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 31 Mar 2010 23:19

NehraA wrote:
hulaku wrote:No body is telling me what badge is Maj.Udai Singh wearing on the right bottom next to the Balidan badge only
SG Mavericks i suppose

Nope, the 'Mavericks" badge is already documented on the previous page.

Nobody knows only

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 04 Apr 2010 07:26

from http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/11/mor ... efore.html

Oh, yes, none of the weighty anchors/editors had asked the DG NSG why he delayed the take-off of the Special Action Group by 45 minutes. The former DG NSG (an ex-Army officer) was not forthcoming enough to confess that he delayed the aircraft because he wanted to be in the limelight.

Ever heard of the COAS, CNS or CAS being on the front lines? No, for good reasons - they have to remain in communications with the Govt and other developments which they can do best in the Operations Room.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 04 Apr 2010 15:27

Jagan wrote:from http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/11/mor ... efore.html

Oh, yes, none of the weighty anchors/editors had asked the DG NSG why he delayed the take-off of the Special Action Group by 45 minutes. The former DG NSG (an ex-Army officer) was not forthcoming enough to confess that he delayed the aircraft because he wanted to be in the limelight.

Ever heard of the COAS, CNS or CAS being on the front lines? No, for good reasons - they have to remain in communications with the Govt and other developments which they can do best in the Operations Room.

Hmmm so the blogger means that the DG-NSG delayed the plane so that he himself could come onboard?

I think it would be fare to give credit to the man to come to the site given the multiplicity of agencies involved on ground.

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 04 Apr 2010 15:41

Jagan wrote:from http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/11/mor ... efore.html

. The former DG NSG (an ex-Army officer) was not forthcoming enough to confess that he delayed the aircraft because he wanted to be in the limelight.

Ever heard of the COAS, CNS or CAS being on the front lines? No, for good reasons - they have to remain in communications with the Govt and other developments which they can do best in the Operations Room.

wasnt JK Dutt from a police background, like all other DGs of NSG contrary to what the blogger writes. i might be wrong but just seems like another keyboard kammandu with a lot of time on his hand

chandrabhan · Post by **chandrabhan** » 04 Apr 2010 16:38

NehraA wrote:
Jagan wrote:from http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/11/mor ... efore.html

wasnt JK Dutt from a police background, like all other DGs of NSG contrary to what the blogger writes. i might be wrong but just seems like another keyboard kammandu with a lot of time on his hand

yes he is, 1971 batch IPS west bengal cadre

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Apr 2010 17:03

NehraA wrote:..
wasnt JK Dutt from a police background, like all other DGs of NSG contrary to what the blogger writes. i might be wrong but just seems like another keyboard kammandu with a lot of time on his hand

unfortunately that keyboard kammandu is supposedly AM SY Savur. I agree I don't understand the ex-IA comment as well.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 04 Apr 2010 21:07

Yeah the DG NSG being ex-IA doesnt make sense. Dutt was certainly Police than Army. But I have to say, this is not the first criticism I heard about the DG NSG being right up there on the front lines. There was some grumbling even at that time. Justified - probably a little.

This particular criticism about the flight getting delayed 45 min.. in the spirit of WALTO - We are like this onlee - whats 45 min delay compared to nearly 12 hours (or whatever - it was hell lot of hours) delay for the NSG to come from Delhi to Bombay?

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 13 May 2010 23:02

IAF Garudas and NSG commandoes exercise together

Commandos of the elite National SecuG and the Air Force conducted a joint exercise to hone their skills for airborne insertion of troops into areas under siege by terrorists like the one encountered at Nariman House during the 26/11 Mumbai [ Images ] attack.

The seven-day joint exercise termed Black Eagle--between the Special Forces (Garuda) of the IAF and the NSG's Black Cats was conducted with the help of MI-17 helicopters, sophisticated weaponry and unique heliborne devices used by commando forces at the NSG garrison in Manesar.

The commandos practised various kinds of shooting skills and techniques to enable precision surgical strikes against terrorists, hostile elements and rescue missions. The emphasis was on swift deployment for which the teams used helicopters, a statement on the completion of the exercise on Thursday, said.

The National Security Guard commandos also devised new techniques for various anti-terrorist operations especially with the help of the Air Force in urban areas like the one in Mumbai.

A small squad of NSG commandos was flown in on an MI-17 helicopter from INS Shikra naval base during the 26/11 Mumbai attack which dropped troops atop Nariman house, which housed the Jewish institution.

This was the first airborne anti-terror operation which the NSG conducted in a densely populated and urban area.

The recent exercise was also held keeping in mind the air insertion of commandos during the upcoming Commonwealth Games, an NSG officer said.

The NSG has also signed an Memorandum of Understanding with the IAF for use of its aircraft for commando deployment and similar operations. The first such joint exercise between the forces was held in 2008. "The joint exercise of the IAF and the NSG is a thrust in our preparedness and ability to combat terrorism or undertake a rescue mission in any form anywhere in the country," the statement said.

The exercise will also enhance the level of cooperation and understanding between the two forces, the officer said. The exercise was witnessed by NSG Director General N P S Aulakh and Air Marshal J N Burma.

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 15 May 2010 16:35

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/445 ... 467f_b.jpg

Can anyone ID this formation Sign on the SF colonel on the right

. Seems to be a Western Command based SF Unit since its from the 14th Indo-US Executive Steering Group in Chandigarh. Never seen this one before. Dont think he a GSO.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 15 May 2010 21:33

vaibhav.n wrote:http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/445 ... 467f_b.jpg

Can anyone ID this formation Sign on the SF colonel on the right . Seems to be a Western Command based SF Unit since its from the 14th Indo-US Executive Steering Group in Chandigarh. Never seen this one before. Dont think he a GSO.

Only the following formations have formations sign - Command/Corps/Divisions/(I) Bde/Areas/(I) Sub-Areas/Training establishments....given the red back gound, my guess is that it is some (I) Sub-Area - but the scroll below the crossed swords is unusual...can be a training establishment. IMHO, SF units themselves will not have formation sign of their own.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 23 Jun 2010 14:00

x-posted in intelligence and national security thread.

Don't know if this has been posted before

http://www.virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint- ... spx?ID=443

Interesting to see Vir sanghvi support covert ops against Pakistan

Report this post

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 24 Jun 2010 13:28

^^^ the above link says = page cannot be found. please provide the right link. Thanks

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Jun 2010 19:21

I am sorry .This is the link

http://www.virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint- ... spx?ID=443

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 19 Sep 2010 10:56

IAF, NSG train Delhi Police commandos for CWG

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Oct 2010 03:17

Useful list of ops where MCF was involved thanks to online CV of retd operator

http://www.oil-offshore-marine.com/show_cv.php?id=98550

Ex Defence Petty Officer from Executive Cadre of Indian Navy, Marine Commando Special Force

....

Op Lagatar. Deployed at Port Blair and A&N Island in 2005 to 2008.

• Op Rakshak:- Deployed as a team member as well as team leader(Thrice) in J& K

• Op Parakram. Deployed over sea at readiness position in 2002.

• Op Sagittarius:- Deployed to provide Anti Piracy security to US Naval Ships/ US Merchant in Malacca Straight from Singapore to Andaman Nicobar Island.

• Op Vijay:- Deployed as a team member in Op Vijay in J & K in 2003

• Op Tasha. Deployed at South Coast of India to restrict the movement of LTTE and protect the anti National Activities, Smuggling etc.

• Camp : Participating in various small operations, Tri services (Army, Navy, and Air Force). Joint exercises, Major Naval Exercises

• Assistant rendered : Many Operations in various places with Other forces like Indian Army Para Commando, Indian Air force Commando (Garud), Rastriya Rifles , BSF,CISF, State Police department.

• Anti Piracy : Action in Gulf of Aden.(rescue of Indian Vassals By SEA Pirates

• Anti Hizacking : Opeation “Tornado” action in Hotel Taj Operation as Quick Reaction Group Leader

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 10 Oct 2010 04:04

Army commandos daring hostage rescue in Assam jungles

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 10 Oct 2010 12:06

^^^Thank you.

Excellent article.

vic · Post by **vic** » 10 Oct 2010 13:35

Jagan wrote:from http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/11/mor ... efore.html

Oh, yes, none of the weighty anchors/editors had asked the DG NSG why he delayed the take-off of the Special Action Group by 45 minutes. The former DG NSG (an ex-Army officer) was not forthcoming enough to confess that he delayed the aircraft because he wanted to be in the limelight.

Ever heard of the COAS, CNS or CAS being on the front lines? No, for good reasons - they have to remain in communications with the Govt and other developments which they can do best in the Operations Room.

The plane was delayed for somebody way high up. I don't think it is public source information so cannot name it but it is an open secret in journalistic circles

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 07 Nov 2010 03:54

vaibhav.n wrote:He is with the IA saar. Me dad was with the Para's onlee....will answer as best as i can. Otherwise can shuttle around for your queries too. My friend was in the AAD, opted for the paras. Will find out bout the US Units.

Wow! Please tell your father that jingos like us have grown up being in awe and inspired by people like him.

I have some basic newbie questions which have been floating around unanswered on BR for some time.

1> What is the difference in training of PARA & PARA SF? The only difference I have heard of is that only PARA SF are HALO & HAHO qualified while PARA are only qualified for static line jumps. Is this true? Also, what other differences are there?

2> What is the level of training of Ghatak Platoons? Is it comparable to that of Para SF? I know that they are not airborne troops (except for those who had been deputed with Para) but other than that, are they comparable to PARA SF? I ask this because of a curious statement made by a former BR member Brig RayC. He had posted that the only difference between Ghatak Platoons and Para SF are the weapons. However, I was under the impression that Ghatak Platoon's job was to be available as shock troops for his Battalion Commander.

3> There have been talks about converting all Para Battalions to SF. Is this something that IA is seriously considering? If so, what are the views of PARA personnel regarding this?

4> There have been rumors of recent dip in SFF disciplinary standards. I know that your father and friend are from PARA but I thought that there is a good chance of para personnel knowing about these things as they sometimes serve with SFF on deputation..

5> What is the interoperability level of PARA SF with other SFs like Marcos, SFF and Garud. I know that Marocs take part in CI ops in J&K. Do PARA SF also perform joint operations with them? Also, information about their interaction with other SF would be most welcome.

6> A lot of PARA SF serve with NSG on deputation. Now 4 more NSG hubs have been formed. I guess that the majority of SAG personnel in these hubs will also be PARA SF. What is their incitement for volunteering for NSG? Also considering how IA is stretched thin, is the CO happy to let let his best men go on deputation? Or is it the case that both the "volunteer" and CO are left with no choice because the orders are to fill NSG SAG anyway?
7> Talking about NSG. What are his views regarding its operational capability. I ask this because the NSG founder (an ex IA colonel whose name I have forgotten) has written some tough words regarding them.

8> Para SF nowadays seem to be mainly using Tavors. This is interesting because there have been discussions saying that 5.56 NATO is too small a caliber. This is said to be one of the reasons (besides full auto and low maintenance demand) why IA likes AK-47 for CI ops. 5.56mm is also said to be the reason why IA does not like INSAS LMG. The multi barrel rifle being developed for F-INSAS program also supports 6.8mm and 7.62mm calibers aside from 5.56 NATO. So, it would be nice to hear the views of an expert regarding this.

9> AMC officers can also volunteer to be deputed with PARA. What is the level and duration of training they are imparted with? Can the AMC officer's deputation be extended from the normal tenure of 3 months? If so, then generally for how long can a AMC officer be deputed with PARA? Are they deputed only with PARA or also with SF?

10> Which helmet do the PARA SF generally use? Patka or the lower protection helmets which other armies seem to prefer (like Israeli OR-201 which also seems to be in use with IA).

11> Is there any plan to procure lighter AMRs than the ones currently in use (Denel NTW-20 & Gepard GM6 Lynx)?

12> Joint Indo Russian exercise INDRA 2010 was recently conducted. Did PARA SF take part in it? I ask this because there were some pics of that exercise in which the some IA soldiers were not wearing regular gear.
[ur]http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/10/ph ... rcise.html[/url]

Now a question for your friend.

Did he note any striking difference between PARA SF and US Army SF? I mean, like some standard procedures which both have a unique way of doing, or some differences in which both are managed etc.

I understand that all the above questions can be answered freely. Nor do I expect that the other person may have the time or inclination to respond to every silly question. However, I would be highly grateful for any tidbits the respected Officers may chose to give.

PS: PARA SF may be trained to face any physical and mental torment, but I am pretty sure that if I happen to meet any PARA SF officer, he would ruin the day he volunteered for PARA. I would just make him go mad by asking unending stupid questions.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 07 Nov 2010 04:09

many of the questions have been discussed here.

You will not get official answers and various folks will have diff views

eg. some Army men will say that there is no diff between para and SF

If you ask my SF friends they will say the Paras are one level better than para qualified NCC cadets

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 07 Nov 2010 04:18

A Sharma wrote:Army commandos daring hostage rescue in Assam jungles

21 Para (SF)

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Nov 2010 11:05

While the question is not directed at me, let me answer to best of my knowledge (and increase me post-count

):

1> What is the difference in training of PARA & PARA SF? The only difference I have heard of is that only PARA SF are HALO & HAHO qualified while PARA are only qualified for static line jumps. Is this true? Also, what other differences are there?

One has to undergo a Probation with one of the Para SF units to qualify for being part of the SF league. Applies to anyone -even the volunteers from Para - though there success rate in probation is likely to be higher as they have undergone the Para grind. That is one big difference. From ground up, the raison d'etre of the SF is different. The training evolves into different orbits. HALO and HAHO is part of curriculum for SF....IIRC, members from Para may do it out of choice (Please correct me on this).

2> What is the level of training of Ghatak Platoons? Is it comparable to that of Para SF? I know that they are not airborne troops (except for those who had been deputed with Para) but other than that, are they comparable to PARA SF? I ask this because of a curious statement made by a former BR member Brig RayC. He had posted that the only difference between Ghatak Platoons and Para SF are the weapons. However, I was under the impression that Ghatak Platoon's job was to be available as shock troops for his Battalion Commander.

I beg to disagree on this - and big time. Ghatak Platoon inariably consists of NCOs and Johnnies who have done the Commando Course at Belgaum - but not always so. But the fittest in the Battalions - like best of sportsmen - will end up in Ghatak. Led by a young subaltern. AFAIK, there is no specialized school where Ghatak troops get trained as a whole. Yes, troops may have undergone indivisual courses like HAWS, Parbat Ghatak etc.

6> A lot of PARA SF serve with NSG on deputation. Now 4 more NSG hubs have been formed. I guess that the majority of SAG personnel in these hubs will also be PARA SF. What is their incitement for volunteering for NSG? Also considering how IA is stretched thin, is the CO happy to let let his best men go on deputation? Or is it the case that both the "volunteer" and CO are left with no choice because the orders are to fill NSG SAG anyway?

There was a time when SAG CO was ex-Para SF only....don't know the situation now. For the Para SF troops....deputation to NSG is almost like a peace station posting (with all due respect to the training). CO from various Infantry Battalions hesitate to send officers to Para - so, just imagine the situation in an operational units like SF.

8> Para SF nowadays seem to be mainly using Tavors. This is interesting because there have been discussions saying that 5.56 NATO is too small a caliber. This is said to be one of the reasons (besides full auto and low maintenance demand) why IA likes AK-47 for CI ops. 5.56mm is also said to be the reason why IA does not like INSAS LMG. The multi barrel rifle being developed for F-INSAS program also supports 6.8mm and 7.62mm calibers aside from 5.56 NATO. So, it would be nice to hear the views of an expert regarding this.

AK-47 (7.62mm) remains the weapon of choice.

9> AMC officers can also volunteer to be deputed with PARA. What is the level and duration of training they are imparted with? Can the AMC officer's deputation be extended from the normal tenure of 3 months? If so, then generally for how long can a AMC officer be deputed with PARA? Are they deputed only with PARA or also with SF?

Each Infantry Battalion in IA has a Regimental Medical Officer (RMO) - these chaps are of Captain rank and fresh out of AFMC. In case someone volunteers for Para - he has to undergo the Para Course at Agra and once he is successful, there are two routes - opt for RMO with a Para Battalion or serve with 50 Para Field Ambulance - the medical outfit of our 50 (I) Para Brigade. Para qualified doctors rotate to this unit thorugh out their career - they alsi have to do fresher jumps every year.

Some of the more cranked cases will opt for Para(SF) for RMO attachment - these fellows have to undergo the three month probation - on the same lines as Infantry Chaps.......and they lead operations. Once they complete the probation - they get to wear the Balidan Badge. During a visit to one of the Army hospitals, you may see a Cardiologist or a Urologist or some other specialist with a Balidan Badge. Maroon Beret and Wings. You know where he has been in his younger days.

Attachment as RMO with any unit is for a period of 2-3 years.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 07 Nov 2010 12:19

rohitvats,
Thanks for the answers.

When I was growing up, I had indeed come across some AMC specialists who had opted for PARA. That is how I came to know about this. However, sadly at that time, I had no idea what a Balidan Badge was.

So, all I can remember is Maroon Berets and Para Wings.

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 07 Nov 2010 16:45

Gaur wrote:
vaibhav.n wrote:He is with the IA saar. Me dad was with the Para's onlee....will answer as best as i can. Otherwise can shuttle around for your queries too. My friend was in the AAD, opted for the paras. Will find out bout the US Units.

Wow! Please tell your father that jingos like us have grown up being in awe and inspired by people like him.

I have some basic newbie questions which have been floating around unanswered on BR for some time.

1> Difference in training of PARA & PARA SF
Rohit was spot on with this. SF operators will train for six months for their role and continue to come back for the next two years for further training. Three months at their designate unit and then of training at SFTS, Nahan (Special Forces Training School) and the Army Airborne School, Agra. They will learn Field and Trade Craft, these will include Linguistics, Communications, Intelligence, Operations, Demolitions, Land Navigation, Advanced CQB and Air Assault (Military Free Fall). Officers will be taught other advanced disciplines like Small team tactics etc. Comparably the Parachute Regiment, which carries out a very comprehensive training regimen is hardly at par.

2> What is the level of training of Ghatak Platoons? Is it comparable to that of Para SF?
I would agree with on this also with rohit completely. Ghatak Platoons in units are officered by the youngest subaltern (simply because the ones fresh off the academy are also the fittest) no Disrespect. Plus its convenient.

3> Converting all Para Battalions to SF.
This topic has been open to a strong debate within the IA too. However as the share of CI burden has increased on the few SF units, so has the need to raise more. The last round of raisings did not go down too well, with standards being watered down down tremendously to fill in vacancies. We must also keep in mind that unlike regular infantry units SF units are high on Officer Strength at 18-20 Officers. SF units are also very expensive to raise and maintain, thus for now looks like the ORBAT would have a SF units with every Field Army HQ and the AHQ Reserve of a Para Bde of 2 Parachute and 1 SF Battalion.

4> SFF standards.
No Comments.

6> NSG Deputation
Guar Sir, Quite frankly NSG deputations are not sought after in the IA. The creme of the IA does not go to join the NSG. You will rarely have an captain with an AX(I) kind of grading there. Most are Charlie's. No offense!! Officers will have quota's to fill don't think you would like your best men to be a part of it!!

8> Para SF using Tavors.
Have some very intresting inputs. Will share time permitting!!..
9> AMC officers can also volunteer to be deputed with PARA.
Again, Rohit saar answered it all. AMC officers who would form a part of the individual SF units would be as RMO who work alongside the units integral BFNA (Battle Field Nursing Assistant) to provide the immediate medical and trauma care.

11> Is there any plan to procure lighter AMRs than the ones currently in use (Denel NTW-20 & Gepard GM6 Lynx)?
The last confirmed Test for a heavy caliber rifle was for the Chey Tac M200 rifle. However this falls in the midway category and isnt a AMR kind of a weapon.

I am awaiting the answers for the rest of the questions, will post as and when available. Cheers

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 07 Nov 2010 17:46

vaibhav.n,
Thanks a lot for the answers. That was a treasure trove of information. So, am I correct to understand that PARA's training is similar to that of any other Infantry Battalion except for para jumps?

PS: Please, there is no need for addressing me as Sir. I am not that aged.

Added Later:
Do the AMC doctors who opt for SF also train at SFTS?
Thanks.

Added Even More Later:

Which PARA battalion is taking part in Yudh Abhyas in Alaska?

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Nov 2010 18:54

8> Para SF using Tavors.
Have some very intresting inputs. Will share time permitting!!..

Eagerly awaiting this...

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Nov 2010 19:30

Gaur wrote:
<SNIP>

So, am I correct to understand that PARA's training is similar to that of any other Infantry Battalion except for para jumps?
<SNIP>

The Para physical fitness level is nothing to be scoffed at......you really really need to be Alpha material to survive the Para grind. And mind you, lot of Para officers and Soldiers can take on and clear the SF Probation.......lot of them may just not desire for that. Being in SF is a different ball game....it is a mind game. Same goes for lot of IA officers.....

If tomorrow, IA decides to have a Rangers type unit - unit for large company/battalion level special operations - Para are right up there.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 07 Nov 2010 20:49

Aditya G wrote:Useful list of ops where MCF was involved thanks to online CV of retd operator

http://www.oil-offshore-marine.com/show_cv.php?id=98550

Ex Defence Petty Officer from Executive Cadre of Indian Navy, Marine Commando Special Force

....

Op Lagatar. Deployed at Port Blair and A&N Island in 2005 to 2008.

• Op Rakshak:- Deployed as a team member as well as team leader(Thrice) in J& K

• Op Parakram. Deployed over sea at readiness position in 2002.

• Op Sagittarius:- Deployed to provide Anti Piracy security to US Naval Ships/ US Merchant in Malacca Straight from Singapore to Andaman Nicobar Island.

• Op Vijay:- Deployed as a team member in Op Vijay in J & K in 2003

• Op Tasha. Deployed at South Coast of India to restrict the movement of LTTE and protect the anti National Activities, Smuggling etc.

• Camp : Participating in various small operations, Tri services (Army, Navy, and Air Force). Joint exercises, Major Naval Exercises

• Assistant rendered : Many Operations in various places with Other forces like Indian Army Para Commando, Indian Air force Commando (Garud), Rastriya Rifles , BSF,CISF, State Police department.

• Anti Piracy : Action in Gulf of Aden.(rescue of Indian Vassals By SEA Pirates

• Anti Hizacking : Opeation “Tornado” action in Hotel Taj Operation as Quick Reaction Group Leader

The man is a beast.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 07 Nov 2010 20:51

And mind you, lot of Para officers and Soldiers can take on and clear the SF Probation.......

The SF is looking at a mental toughness - thats the diff in the 3 month para training and the 6 month SF probation

In other words the paras are ending when the SF is only just getting into the middle of the probation.

The ability to keep going for another 3 months with only one sunday in 2 off, hours and hours of training, little sleep, 10 minutes to grab something to eat wears them out.

When I was watching one of the probation group - it was wiry little Sikh Infantry guy who was impressing the CO. I cannot tell you why - but the guy was brilliant in utilizing every minute to advantage for rest, food etc. Its an interesting sight as you watch troops from every regiment in the IA trying out.

This is why Lt gen Nirbhay sharma (retd)- who decided that Para = SF (per interview in FORCE) made (IMO) a huge mistake and this is why the SF needs to have its own regiment.

The paras simply do not understand the SF.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 07 Nov 2010 21:04

rohitvats wrote: The Para physical fitness level is nothing to be scoffed at......you really really need to be Alpha material to survive the Para grind. And mind you, lot of Para officers and Soldiers can take on and clear the SF Probation.......lot of them may just not desire for that. Being in SF is a different ball game....it is a mind game. Same goes for lot of IA officers.....

If tomorrow, IA decides to have a Rangers type unit - unit for large company/battalion level special operations - Para are right up there.

I see. I have some level of understanding that Para are a cut above the rest. However, I was talking more about overall training than fitness (which is only a part of training). What I mean is...Do Paras go through some course which other regiments do not generally have to?
Thanks.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Nov 2010 21:10

^^^Surya, I have no opinion to contrary. My only point is that at the very basic level, the aspiration for being SF Operative is something which lot of soldiers across the Army do not have. Forget SF, the moment an officer mentions that he wants to be Para qualified, 9 out of 10 fellow soldiers will want to talk him out of it. "Kyoon marwana chatha hai...." is the common refrain.

That is why I said, there are 'crank' cases who desire to opt for SF in first caseand still lesser who manage to survive and pass it. There are lot of officers...Para and otherwise.......who may well be able to clear the SF Probation...but 99% simply don't want to be in a SF Battalion. And it is because of the simple reason - most of them don't understand the SF stuff.......

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 07 Nov 2010 21:10

rohit

I know I was just using ur statement to expand on it

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Nov 2010 21:17

And better still are the cases of SF officers (and from other arms and Services) asked to "Volunteer" for the Special Group............

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 07 Nov 2010 21:28

rohitvats wrote:And better still are the cases of SF officers (and from other arms and Services) asked to "Volunteer" for the Special Group............

Rohit, what exactly is the "Special Group". I mean I have heard a lot about them but then I have heard nothing about them...if you know what I mean.

How exactly are they different from the other SF types? (if it is ok to talk about it of course)

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 07 Nov 2010 21:32

oh boy

There is no such thing as Special group

just a typo

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 07 Nov 2010 21:37

NSG Stands Third In International Competition of SPGs of Various Head of States

In general the winners were the team of Yuschenko, the second place took the guards of Lukashenko, the third – Indians. Bodyguards of Putin and Saakashvili closed the group of five finalists.

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