Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2011

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 21 Jul 2011 14:12

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 281409.ece

Washington, July 21, 2011

U.S. House panel moves to restrict aid to Pakistan

Interesting. Wonder if it is more stringent than the previous Kerry-Lugar bill?

Also, it looks like the US Congress (not INC as is being discussed ad nauseam here) is now looking at China-Pak axis in seriousness.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 21 Jul 2011 14:27

Ah! Our Paki birathers have found another fliend! (Or so their noose rags say)

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?241752

Saudi Arabia vows to back Pakistan come rain or shine
Thursday July 21, 2011 (1232 PST)

A friendship as soothing as the most invigorating monsoon rain, and more potent than the moonshine available in the gullys of India

The events of the past few days definitely point to Pasha not having been able to slow down the Paki downslide in relations with the US, that now their PM is hunting for fliends. I thought flied lice would be fulfilling, by itself.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Jul 2011 14:40

Fidel Guevara wrote:The benefit is that the Fai case will put a damper on WKK sponsorships

Indeed, without holding any brief for any of those who might have attended conferences sponsored by Fai, simply that (ie, attendance) does not mean that all of them were/are willingly part of an ISI-sponsored psy-operation...Track II (and III and IV!) is pretty big business in the Delhi commentariat...Many of these are sponsored by the establishments of various countries, including India's...Almost all the time, these are just talk shops to examine trial balloons...Nothing more...

This Fai character obviously had some access to Capitol Hill as well..To that extent there was a veneer of respetability to what he was doing...Should some people have exercised better discretion? Maybe so...Does it mean that all of them are anti-India activists? Thats too harsh a judgement...

Coming to that conclusion tantamounts to saying that all investors in Galleon (Rajaratnam' company) were complicit in his insider trading!

JMT....

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Jul 2011 14:45

These days even associations with ISI are not bad enough. Dhanya hain maharaj!

Mera Bharat Mahan!

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 21 Jul 2011 14:48

Mera Bharat Mahan!

yep - was beginning to wonder the same - how long before the white-washing starts? Maybe "by all accounts" - India can have a US-Canada relationship with Kashmir, much like apparently we can have with Bangladesh.

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Jul 2011 14:49

^^ Somnath-ji,
Were you one of the invitees by chance? Why the rush to defend characters like Harinder Baweja ( who has mentioned on live TV that if she was a muslim in India, she would have taken up arms long ago), Gautam Navlakha, Syed Geelani, Rajinder Sachar etc?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Jul 2011 14:53

sum wrote:^^ Somnath-ji,
Were you one of the invitees by chance? Why the rush to defend characters like Harinder Baweja ( who has mentioned on live TV that if she was a muslim in India, she would have taken up arms long ago), Gautam Navlakha, Syed Geelani, Rajinder Sachar etc?

False. Syed Geelani is a RAW agent!

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 21 Jul 2011 14:57

I think this Fai guy was a bakra that Khan used to tell ISI that it's not only khan who has unauthorized agents in Pakistan. Pakis have their assets too. Clear and simple lalkar to try Unkil more onlee...

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Jul 2011 15:12

sum wrote:^^ Somnath-ji,
Were you one of the invitees by chance? Why the rush to defend characters like Harinder Baweja ( who has mentioned on live TV that if she was a muslim in India, she would have taken up arms long ago), Gautam Navlakha, Syed Geelani, Rajinder Sachar etc?

I am not "defending" any of the principals, certainly not that ass Gautam Navlakha..But I do happen to know a couple of the Track II - types - none of them can be on "ISI payrolls"..I also happen to know (from an interesting previous experience) on how these Track II seminars are organised - there is an amount of comic relief to those stories, but most participnts are there for nothing more than a foreign trip...

Anyways, take it FWIW....

amit · Post by **amit** » 21 Jul 2011 15:26

somnath wrote:
sum wrote:^^ Somnath-ji,
Were you one of the invitees by chance? Why the rush to defend characters like Harinder Baweja ( who has mentioned on live TV that if she was a muslim in India, she would have taken up arms long ago), Gautam Navlakha, Syed Geelani, Rajinder Sachar etc?
I am not "defending" any of the principals, certainly not that ass Gautam Navlakha..But I do happen to know a couple of the Track II - types - none of them can be on "ISI payrolls"..I also happen to know (from an interesting previous experience) on how these Track II seminars are organised - there is an amount of comic relief to those stories, but most participnts are there for nothing more than a foreign trip...

Anyways, take it FWIW....

Boss you seem to be confusing issues here. Track II is something GoI supports and I would suspect funds as well. Whatever Fai was doing was being funded by ISI. And so unless you're trying to say that was the Pak version of Track II, I don't see the connection. If you note the Telegraph article I posted, it clearly says that the Indian Embassy did not in anyway associate with Fai because of his anti-India agenda. If that's the case how can this be compared with track 2?

Face it these a*holes were lured by a business class ticket and "some luxury" (I wonder did that include, at least for some, both inanimate as well as animate "luxury"?) and they didn't give a damn to check on whether this was an anti India platform or not.

Strange thing is, I can understand over the hill journalists taking the largess and the WKK types like Navlakha. But how the heck did Subramaniam Swamy get mixed up? Sorry I think this is serious dent to his credibility. On one hand he writes the article he did after the latest bomb blasts and yet he associates himself with a patently anti India platform. Even if he did not know the ISI's involvement surely he knew of the broad anti-India agenda of KAC. He should have understood his presence gave it far more legitimacy than that of duffers like Kuldip Nayyar.

JMT

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Jul 2011 15:31

Subhramanyam Swamy has been discussed in the Indian Interests thread. See pages 45-46.

amit · Post by **amit** » 21 Jul 2011 15:39

abhishek_sharma wrote:Subhramanyam Swamy has been discussed in the Indian Interests thread. See pages 45-46.

Oh yes I've seen that. My point exactly. He talks about abolishing 370, yet takes part in Fai's activities on Kashmir.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Jul 2011 15:42

amit wrote:
Rahul M wrote:as long as it is in context of the fai affair and does not degenerate into political mudslinging it is a valid topic.
I hold no brief for the Congress jokers mentioned in this context. But I hope you realise that the statement: "I've suspected that elements within INC had advance knowledge of the ISI-LeT attack on Mumbai on Nov 26 2008, simply because of the obfuscatory press blaming CIA/RSS/Mossad that was initiated by INC apparatchiks while the attacks were in progress", is of the same class as charging Col Purohit?

After all some Cong joker also has the right to say I've suspected Col Purohit?

Two wrongs make a right? I think all this verbal gymnastics only detracts from the seriousness of the message that we try to convey on this thread. My point is there are other threads to discuss this.

Anyway no more from me on this.

err, 'might' ? you mean some cong joker hasn't already blamed Col purohit and hindoo terrorists for every other terror attack in the country, undermining our international position on the issue, maligning the army and most importantly thrown a spanner in the efforts to curb radicalisation inside India ?

and when a number of mainstream media and semi-official personalities are found connected with the fai network, how much of a stretch is to expect that the party that selectively appoints the very same group to positions of influence might have some linked to that network as well ? I really don't see how this counts as a 'wrong' and not reasonable suspicion.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 21 Jul 2011 15:45

uploaded the original mutually assured execution video compilation if anybody wants to upload it on other SocMedia/Networking sites

Update: Changed the link. Did not realize earlier link needed a login to download

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VH5A6OO8

Also available on Liveleak, uploaded yesterday

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=abd_1311154142

amit · Post by **amit** » 21 Jul 2011 15:53

Rahul M wrote:err, 'might' ? you mean some cong joker hasn't already blamed Col purohit and hindoo terrorists for every other terror attack in the country, undermining our international position on the issue, maligning the army and most importantly thrown a spanner in the efforts to curb radicalisation inside India ?

and when a number of mainstream media and semi-official personalities are found connected with the fai network, how much of a stretch is to expect that the party that selectively appoints the very same group to positions of influence might have some linked to that network as well ? I really don't see how this counts as a 'wrong' and not reasonable suspicion.

Sigh! You totally miss my point.

I'm not saying this not possible or that this not a subject that shouldn't be discussed [Note: this pertains only to the contents of your post above and not Vera_K's original post]. All I'm saying is that IMO this is not the thread to discuss it as it will only distracts from the central message of this thread. The last I checked this thread was about the Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

There are plenty of threads on this forum to bash INC, Sonia Manio and the whole shebang.

Also I think one should keep in focus that Vera_K's conclusion from his "I suspect" comment was that the ruling party knew that 26/11 was about to happen and didn't do anything about it.

In order the prevent the discussion from creeping away from the original point, let me repost what he wrote and which I said did not belong here as it was self-goal.

Vera_K wrote:I've suspected that elements within INC had advance knowledge of the ISI-LeT attack on Mumbai on Nov 26 2008, simply because of the obfuscatory press blaming CIA/RSS/Mossad that was initiated by INC apparatchiks while the attacks were in progress.

Do you also think there's reasonable suspicion to believe the above? If you do then certainly it's worth discussing here since that becomes a different discussion from the usual Congress bashing which again IMO belongs to other threads.

But you should say so clearly if you do believe so. Bringing in Col Purohit just obfuscates this issue IMO.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 21 Jul 2011 16:15

>>Ved Bhasin

First class snake, and it is impossible he did not know of Fai's antecedents. Bhasin himself has travelled to Pakisatan and stayed in an ISI run hotel, and signed the guest book like a bloody fool. Fu(ker!!!

Inder Sharma · Post by **Inder Sharma** » 21 Jul 2011 16:20

There is a section in a book on Danny Pearl episode by by Asra Nomani(hope I aint mixing up). She say’s to some effect that they visited a kashmiri jihadi house, maintained by the ISI. There she saw Ved Basin who was present there along with other important leaders of the kashmiri tanzeems.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Jul 2011 16:37

boss, you are missing the point thinking this is about INC bashing maino whatever business.
it is not, it is whether some Indian citizens who happen to be politicians have links to ISI, THAT is the point, not their political party.

otherwise, pray tell me why did you post the telegraph link about some media persons' links to fai ?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 21 Jul 2011 16:51

Re Ved Bhasin - Bernard Henry Levi mentions this prat in his book on Daniel Pearl too. IIRC, that's where I got this datapoint about the guestbook signature from.

>>Why the rush to defend characters like Harinder Baweja

This is a strange case, strange because perhaps I don't know enough. I do know that Ms. Baweja (if it is the same lady that I'm thinking of) is forthright and a person of integrity. Once or twice I've seen her take positions on air, now and then, that some of our right-wing politicians would shy away from because of the toughness of it. I think she sees herself as someone totally committed to journalism, saying the truth as she sees it. So I personally found her inclusion in the list odd. She may have fallen for the perks, but my gut feeling is that if she had any inkling of Fai's links, she probably would not have gone... but who knows...

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Jul 2011 17:17

amit wrote:Track II is something GoI supports and I would suspect funds as well. Whatever Fai was doing was being funded by ISI. And so unless you're trying to say that was the Pak version of Track II, I don't see the connection.

That's precisely what I am saying...Track II stuff is sponsored by all govts - India, Pak, China, US, UK (Track II is a uniquely "South Asian" definition though)...There are multiple uses of these jamborees...The "useful" use is to see the reaction to trial balloons - how key opinionmakers react to a proposal...The other use is to simply curry some low-key favour through sponsorship of such jamborees in exotic places...

The SOP for such conferences is standard -first get a couple of "officials" to confirm attendance - usually senators, congressmen, MPs, former ministers..then get the usual suspects - journos, academics et al...This Fai character obviously had good connections in the Hill, hence the "credibility" was there I guess...

amit wrote:Face it these a*holes were lured by a business class ticket and "some luxury" (I wonder did that include, at least for some, both inanimate as well as animate "luxury"?)

Well, it might interest you to know that a lot of Indo-Pak Track IIs are held in Bangkok

Net net, while some of the participants might have erred in judgement, its too much to taint all of them with ISI-collusion..Thats all..

JE Menon wrote:She may have fallen for the perks, but my gut feeling is that if she had any inkling of Fai's links, she probably would not have gone...

+1...Ditto for some of the others as well IMO....

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Jul 2011 17:20

somnath wrote: Well, it might interest you to know that a lot of Indo-Pak Track IIs are held in Bangkok

That's neutral territory, boss.

amit · Post by **amit** » 21 Jul 2011 17:34

Rahul M wrote:boss, you are missing the point thinking this is about INC bashing maino whatever business.
it is not, it is whether some Indian citizens who happen to be politicians have links to ISI, THAT is the point, not their political e ty.

otherwise, pray tell me why did you post the telegraph link about some media persons' links to fai ?

Nope you're the on missing the point and I'm surprised that you are. Vera made a specific allegation. He said elements within the govt knew about the attacks and yet did nothing about it. That amounts to accusing the govt of treason. That's totally different from accusing some politician having a connection with some ISI element on their individual capacity. The Telegraph article I linked is a totally different kettle of fish.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 21 Jul 2011 17:38

When did Malaysia become neutral territory?

Malaysia is not only anti-India and pro-Chinese, it is anti-Hindu as well. Just because they like to cock a snook at the US/west does not make them neutral towards India by any margin.

It is a pro-pak territory through and through.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 21 Jul 2011 17:39

There's a difference between the government and INC in this case. These people were obviously contradicting the government openly.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Jul 2011 17:42

abhischekcc wrote:When did Malaysia become neutral territory?

Malaysia is not only anti-India and pro-Chinese, it is anti-Hindu as well. Just because they like to cock a snook at the US/west does not make them neutral towards India by any margin.

It is a pro-pak territory through and through.

Chetak can answer, but lemme clarify..
One, BAngkok's in Thailand, not M'sia..
Two, you (and Chetak too) seem to have missed the pun there - read Amit's comment that I was responding to

Last, these jamborees are meant to be a "good time" in an exotic locale - its not a place for making war..So "neutral", "pro Paki" et al are irrelevant...Lighten up!

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 21 Jul 2011 17:47

amit wrote:Do you also think there's reasonable suspicion to believe the above? If you do then certainly it's worth discussing here since that becomes a different discussion from the usual Congress bashing which again IMO belongs to other threads.

This is not about Col Purohit. I was tipped off by this article - to my horror this appeared on the web while the attack was in progress. Now, the theory in this article, specifically that the attacks were not ISI-LeT sponsored, but was a RSS-Mossad operation was supported by Digvijay Singh and Antulay (both of them skipped the Mossad bit). When you tie this in with the little nugget that the attackers had saffron threads on the wrist with the specifc intent to confuse investigators, the implication is rather unpleasant.

Mumbai Terror Attacks: The Mossad Angle

Our worst fears have come true. It is clear that Mossad is involved in the whole affair. An entire city has been attacked by Mossad and probably units of mercenaries. It is not possible for one single organization to plan and execute such a sophisticated operation. It is clear that this operation was backed by communal forces from within the Indian State.

The RSS-BJP-VHP-Bajrang Dal should be banned. Advani and others ought to be arrested. Today is a day of shame for all Indians and all Hindus. Muslims and secular Hindus have been proven right. RSS type forces and Israel are all involved in not only destabilizing but finishing India.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 21 Jul 2011 17:54

Whoops - conphyoosed between KL amd Bangkok

-------
PS,
I do know what Bangkok is (in)famous for. That is the reason why it is called Bang-cock.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Jul 2011 18:04

abhischekcc wrote:When did Malaysia become neutral territory?

Malaysia is not only anti-India and pro-Chinese, it is anti-Hindu as well. Just because they like to cock a snook at the US/west does not make them neutral towards India by any margin.

It is a pro-pak territory through and through.

Neutral meaning agreed upon by both countries.

The guys are usually holed up in a luxury hotel with efficient room service.

The talks go on quietly but watched by the intelligence agencies of many interested countries.

Flight connections and other associated infrastructure are available and readily accessible so that many "interested" parties can fly in and out without arousing undue suspicion.

By the way most of the interlocutors would need handy access to medical oxygen after climbing a flight of stairs, not to talk about animate luxuries.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Jul 2011 18:06

Putting photos to names.
Gautam Navlakha

Ved Bhasin

Karen Parker

Angana Chaterji

Pandit Jatender Bakshi

Ghulam with Pak PM {I think this is not at a KAC conference}

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Jul 2011 18:09

SwamyG wrote:Putting photos to names.

A regular rogues gallery?

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 21 Jul 2011 18:15

Hiten wrote:uploaded the original mutually assured execution video compilation if anybody wants to upload it on other SocMedia/Networking sites

Update: Changed the link. Did not realize earlier link needed a login to download

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VH5A6OO8

Also available on Liveleak, uploaded yesterday

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=abd_1311154142

The Liveleak video is excellent - thanks for uploading! At 13:06 you highlighted a few sentences from the text and flashed it - I think it should stay on screen a little longer, as of now it just flashes on screen for less than a second.

Great job; I will do my bit to publicize it. Encourage all BRFites to do the same in your circles!

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Jul 2011 18:19

vera_k wrote:
amit wrote:Do you also think there's reasonable suspicion to believe the above? If you do then certainly it's worth discussing here since that becomes a different discussion from the usual Congress bashing which again IMO belongs to other threads.
This is not about Col Purohit. I was tipped off by this article - to my horror this appeared on the web while the attack was in progress. Now, the theory in this article, specifically that the attacks were not ISI-LeT sponsored, but was a RSS-Mossad operation was supported by Digvijay Singh and Antulay (both of them skipped the Mossad bit). When you tie this in with the little nugget that the attackers had saffron threads on the wrist with the specifc intent to confuse investigators, the implication is rather unpleasant.

Mumbai Terror Attacks: The Mossad Angle

Our worst fears have come true. It is clear that Mossad is involved in the whole affair. An entire city has been attacked by Mossad and probably units of mercenaries. It is not possible for one single organization to plan and execute such a sophisticated operation. It is clear that this operation was backed by communal forces from within the Indian State.

The RSS-BJP-VHP-Bajrang Dal should be banned. Advani and others ought to be arrested. Today is a day of shame for all Indians and all Hindus. Muslims and secular Hindus have been proven right. RSS type forces and Israel are all involved in not only destabilizing but finishing India.

dogvijay's loyalties are well known.

Who would cause him to say such things??

Asked and Answered!!

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 21 Jul 2011 18:20

SwamyG wrote:Putting photos to names...........

Without researching the backgrounds of these traitors, my initial take was :
Gautam Navlakha : typical JNU jholawallah Commie
Angana Chaterji : repressed, doesn't get enough, bitter and trying to out-Roy Roy

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Jul 2011 18:33

amit wrote:
Rahul M wrote:boss, you are missing the point thinking this is about INC bashing maino whatever business.
it is not, it is whether some Indian citizens who happen to be politicians have links to ISI, THAT is the point, not their political e ty.

otherwise, pray tell me why did you post the telegraph link about some media persons' links to fai ?
Nope you're the on missing the point and I'm surprised that you are. Vera made a specific allegation. He said elements within the govt knew about the attacks and yet did nothing about it. That amounts to accusing the govt of treason. That's totally different from accusing some politician having a connection with some ISI element on their individual capacity. The Telegraph article I linked is a totally different kettle of fish.

did he say GOI or INC ? is there a difference or is there not ?
who is missing the point here ? and why are you ascribing something to him that he did not say ?

I don't understand why you feel there is a difference between 2 traitors just because their chosen professions are different. why are journalists fair game but politicians not ?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 21 Jul 2011 18:57

abhishek_sharma wrote:Syed Geelani is a RAW agent!

And, the best possible one, at that. Only that he doesn't know it. That's what makes him so effective.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 21 Jul 2011 19:16

Xinjiang news with Pakistan connection mentioned.
http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabid/99 ... ttack.aspx

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 21 Jul 2011 19:34

somnath wrote:
Fidel Guevara wrote:The benefit is that the Fai case will put a damper on WKK sponsorships
Indeed, without holding any brief for any of those who might have attended conferences sponsored by Fai, simply that (ie, attendance) does not mean that all of them were/are willingly part of an ISI-sponsored psy-operation...Track II (and III and IV!) is pretty big business in the Delhi commentariat...Many of these are sponsored by the establishments of various countries, including India's...Almost all the time, these are just talk shops to examine trial balloons...Nothing more...

This Fai character obviously had some access to Capitol Hill as well..To that extent there was a veneer of respetability to what he was doing...Should some people have exercised better discretion? Maybe so...Does it mean that all of them are anti-India activists? Thats too harsh a judgement...

Coming to that conclusion tantamounts to saying that all investors in Galleon (Rajaratnam' company) were complicit in his insider trading!

JMT....

I might be stepping over the line here, but, ...

Even before the arrest, I have been tracking Fai and knew him to be a sleaze and a scoundrel like all the azadi mongers, only with some expertise in PR. I expect 'insiders' to know at least as much as I do from being an outside observer. Now here you pop up, waving away the idea that character and patriotism ought to mean something. 'Big', self-important people should be expected to have proper judgment, and BRF is a place to stomp on such people when they fail to have such judgment, without mercy.

Given that, why exactly are you on BRF, somnath, if you are so quick and willing to spend your precious time just to play down treason in intent if not in law?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jul 2011 19:42

somnath wrote:
Fidel Guevara wrote:The benefit is that the Fai case will put a damper on WKK sponsorships
Indeed, without holding any brief for any of those who might have attended conferences sponsored by Fai, simply that (ie, attendance) does not mean that all of them were/are willingly part of an ISI-sponsored psy-operation...Track II (and III and IV!) is pretty big business in the Delhi commentariat...Many of these are sponsored by the establishments of various countries, including India's...Almost all the time, these are just talk shops to examine trial balloons...Nothing more...

.....
Coming to that conclusion tantamounts to saying that all investors in Galleon (Rajaratnam' company) were complicit in his insider trading!

JMT....

I disagree with above view. Consorting with enemies of state and their sponsors means they are also enemies willing or unwillinng. ANd they show no remorse even after the revelations speaks volumes of their complicity. A truly innocent WKK wll say:
I didn't know Fai was ISI backed and am sorry to have associated with him. In future will make sure who is who before associating with them.

Galleon investors are money related. Fai caper is national security realted. A world of difference.

Please keep perspective and don't keep backing bad people.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Jul 2011 19:46

If my relatives and friends had attended Fai's seminars I would not be harsh on them. Ok the conclusions may have been anti-India and my friends may have given a veneer of respectability, but remember that India is raping women in Cashmere and ripping out fetuses from women's wombs (sometimes men also according to some reports) all the time. Fai was only exposing that.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 21 Jul 2011 19:51

AoA! Time for a break with this news. Pakistan army: Shelling from Afghanistan kills 4 troops

Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas.....did not blame any particular faction, but Western forces, Afghan troops and Taliban militants all operate along various parts of the Afghan side of the border.