Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Feb 2013 05:47

Clearly there are too many bigwigs rooting for NaMo.

I hope so and there are a few (weak) pointers in this direction. Too early to jump to conclusions and may just be hedge-play.

UPA's incompetence and brazen looting has caused too much loss (in both direct and indirect, opportunity cost terms) to too many of 'em networks, moneybags and bigwigs one keeps hearing about. IMO, the moneybags want some assurance that NM will be a cleaner version of the 'regular' Dilli neta befoe throwing in their lot with him, perhaps. But then, NM is his own man and wouldn't be NM if he was to be just a less corrupt UPA B-team now.

Still, hope is NM will make whatever compromises are necessary to first get onto the saddle. The PMO has the potential to create its own climate and ecosystem ... and once NM makes it there, who knows... only.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Feb 2013 06:19

mahadevbhu wrote: Then we hire him as a lobbyist and a person who represents India in western fora....and gives an impression of India just as the Paki 24 families gave their gora friends in the 60s and 70s.

We need sales and marketing people.

RamaY wrote: What did he sell?
I am sorry, I do not have any respect or admiration or value for him. May be it is my ignorance.

mahadevbhu wrote: he'll sell, "the idea of india" to everyone around the world.....let him.

He will sell India, not the "idea of India".

Why do I think so? Please read this blog post when you have some time
http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/2012/ ... r-inc.html

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Feb 2013 06:41

HNair garu,

Thank you for your assessment of Sashi Tharoor and RamaY in a single post.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Feb 2013 06:57

SwamyG wrote:Will the public force regional parties to create alliances with BJP?

SwamyG garu, we have seen how things changed a little bit after NM's SRCC speech. Similarly NM can get additional alliances based on how he speaks to women, farmers, govt employees etc.,

Another factor I rely on is the fact that NM will have access to >300,000 crores of annual budget funds once in power. He can use that card to promise special packages for specific regions, issues and alliance partners.

Imagine he makes certain proposals that are critical to allaiance partner fortunes (based on when the state elections come) and package them as part of his manifesto it will get him additional pre-poll alliances.

For example TRS is looking at BJP after it became clear that either INC will not give T-State or even if it gives a T-state before elections that would mean end of KcR's personal fortunes.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Feb 2013 07:18

Coincidentally Sashi Tharoor is in a discussion about "what is Home: geography or idea" with Burkha. This is sponsored by British Council?

Please watch - Watch video: http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-s ... uct/265552

I must say, I am impressed. Will write a detailed post in some other thread.

Please check his idea of India and when it came to existence. It comes at around 24:00 mins

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 21 Feb 2013 07:32

muraliravi wrote:Read that

"In a curious way, a similar mismatch also confronted Atal Bihari Vajpayee when he was chosen the leader. They were overcome because Vajpayee's popularity far exceeded the support for abstruse ideology. If the opinion polls and anecdotal evidence are any guide, it would seem that Modi is in a far stronger position than Vajpayee was in 1996. He is being propelled upwards by a force far more potent than the organised might of the BJP and RSS. The only thing that can stop Modi is Modi himself.

- Swapan Dasgupta is a Delhi-based political commentator"

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nare ... 50408.html

There are clearly forces at play that no one understands that are propelling Narendra Modi to Delhi. It would be futile to stop him. Like in 1996, many Congress stalwarts are prepared to jump ship. They have opened negotiations with the Bharatiya Janata Party. They want Modi to come and clean up the system. This is bad news for the Congress. Then consider the bureaucracy. After the Indian Administrative Service, the Indian Police Service ranks second in corruption and venality, and because it has so much at stake, it keeps robustly abreast of the current political wind direction. Senior IPS officers are openly talking about an imminent Narendra Modi government at the Centre, and they are a scared lot. Six months ago, this writer was alone to bet that the gates of Delhi would open wide to welcome Modi. That’s happening now. Contrary to the fears of most, however, this writer’s own understanding is that Modi will not be vindictive, and will single-mindedly strive to be an outstanding prime minister. He will aim to surpass Vajpayee and even Jawaharlal Nehru, and history is on his side.

Read more at: http://newsinsight.net/MarathonMan.aspx#page=page-1

Clearly there are too many bigwigs rooting for NaMo. These katju's and rss top bosses are nobody in this game.

Two articles on the same like in two days. A lot to digest.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Feb 2013 07:38

RamaY wrote:HNair garu,

Thank you for your assessment of Sashi Tharoor and RamaY in a single post.

Even worse, I included you in a paragraph with trash like owaisi and madani.

But that said, I apologize for losing my temper, for your prolific posting and trolling questions are not helping anyone. And someone need to take out owaisi's knees. Over there in Hyderabad. You guys have better demographics than me down here in Trivandrum, but still it got done here, due to a historic penchant for taking raw action when demanded.

I hope that message is not lost, when a lot of folks in BRF lament for my well being in Kerala

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Feb 2013 07:52

^ Hnair ji, you got me completely wrong.

I was talking about the fortunes of NM/BJP and what states cannot be win based on demographics. And the fact is that Kerala's minority population is near 50%. Given the additional benefit of conversions while keeping the birth rate same, it is highly probable that Hindus will be in minority in Kerala.

It is a known fact that real/perceived Hindu parties cannot and will not do well, at least given the current socio political scenario.

Regarding ST, I am basing my opinion on his performance as an MP, minister of state, and his views as HE presented on various forums.

That said it is ok, you can equate me to anyone you find interesting. It is your prerogative. You can call my posts what they are. That is the whole purpose of my posting here. Post my thoughts and get corrected when wrong.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 21 Feb 2013 08:05

ST is erudite and has heart in place. i have read a couple of his books and heard his speeches in TED and other places on the internet.

Overall about him,he has wasted his talents in the wrong party defending the indefensible.
he does not have any real strength with people( I mean base) to really mount challenge the duffers in his party. he needs backing of powerful and he kowtows to them.

it will be the same whether he is in congis left or BJP.
He is good when there is no politics involved. Ironically though trying to be a politican.

he is good at defending India with non Indians.
The above is his real weakness with fear of failing.
IMHO.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I hear and see, the NaMo bashing has subtly chnaged colors over time-

1) From communalvadi/hindutva poster boy - godhra riots criminal conspiracy etc which has lost its relevance with more congi perfidy coming to light now than before.
2) NaMo may not be a PM material due to various reasons like India is not Gujarat, ethics etc and what not also losing traction
3) to now rahul duffer and NaMo are both not good enough material for PMship.
4) ....... waiting for more with bated breath.

NaMo sure has come a long way from the standards of paid media and other congi crooks.

Overall it is in line with what some commentators have said -- something is propelling NaMo upwards towards Delhi.

Hope people of India respond with the changing times for their own betterment.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Feb 2013 08:13

>> But that said, I apologize for losing my temper ...

You should not offer an apology. However, I am sure you will understand when others lose their temper and you get similar treatment.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Feb 2013 08:27

looks like I stepped on too many tails....

My sincere apologies for all the posters whom I critized, trolled and irritated.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 21 Feb 2013 08:45

Speech of NaMo at chennai in 2011 in english.

Listen carefully to the speech.
No politican in India can speak like him with regards to the needs of India.

secularism talk around 35 minutes onwards. Clear and to the point.

great speaker and talks facts and the vision and what not.

Now non hindi speakers should not grumble about his lack of english speeches.(includes me)

No Modi baiters will ever talk all his speeches consistently revolve around development and other aspects.
his speeches involve all sections of society without naming any caste or religion unlike the communal/caste based parties led by congis.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 21 Feb 2013 08:50

I am a okay hindi person, could make some of it-
lady asks him about gidhra riots--
NaMo replies that foreigners have hanged Indians ealier also with foreign judges.
even now attempts have been made.
If I am found guilty let them hang me also in India.

may be Brfites better at Hindi can do a better job.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Feb 2013 09:02

^^ says that "jo neta bahar se laate hain, woh nyaya bhi bahar se laane ki soch rahe hain." = People who brings leaders from outside want to bring justice from other countries too. (Context: Some Congress leader said that Modi would have been hanged in other countries.)

Secondly when they say so they are questioning the legal system/standards of India.

Thirdly, I would like to die in India. Let them hang me here.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 21 Feb 2013 09:03

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1413341
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1414062

He is being propelled upwards by a force far more potent than the organised might of the BJP and RSS. The only thing that can stop Modi is Modi himself.

There are clearly forces at play that no one understands that are propelling Narendra Modi to Delhi. It would be futile to stop him. Like in 1996, many Congress stalwarts are prepared to jump ship. They have opened negotiations with the Bharatiya Janata Party. They want Modi to come and clean up the system. This is bad news for the Congress. Then consider the bureaucracy. After the Indian Administrative Service, the Indian Police Service ranks second in corruption and venality, and because it has so much at stake, it keeps robustly abreast of the current political wind direction. Senior IPS officers are openly talking about an imminent Narendra Modi government at the Centre, and they are a scared lot. Six months ago, this writer was alone to bet that the gates of Delhi would open wide to welcome Modi. That’s happening now. Contrary to the fears of most, however, this writer’s own understanding is that Modi will not be vindictive, and will single-mindedly strive to be an outstanding prime minister. He will aim to surpass Vajpayee and even Jawaharlal Nehru, and history is on his side.

My post

From what I hear and see, the NaMo bashing has subtly chnaged colors over time-

1) From communalvadi/hindutva poster boy - godhra riots criminal conspiracy etc which has lost its relevance with more congi perfidy coming to light now than before.
2) NaMo may not be a PM material due to various reasons like India is not Gujarat, ethics etc and what not also losing traction
3) to now rahul duffer and NaMo are both not good enough material for PMship.
4) ....... waiting for more with bated breath.

NaMo sure has come a long way from the standards of paid media and other congi crooks.

The paid media has never ventured to attack the <--????--> and others in their support to NaMo.

Is it because the <----?????------> also feeds the paid media and congis gravy train of corruption. henec the media does not attack them with crooks/articles etc.
have the big wigs decided to park their money to NaMo.
are their wheels within wheels at play.

-------------------------------------------------------------
will have to keep a watch on money makers to see which way the wind blows.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Feb 2013 09:30

Krishna ji

I want to give a try to see if my Hindi knowledge is good, let others correct.

The woman asks: Congress leaders say that you should be hanged for what happened in 2002

NM answers: Some prophets

of congress said, NM would have been hanged if it were different country. This is the position of congress because it is the position of congress president Sonia Gandhi. I am not surprised with this thought process from Congress.

1. You see, when a political party brings their leadership from outside (other countries), they also think to bring the outside justice system on to local society

.

2. By doing so, they are putting a grave question on Indian justice system. They should understand that such statements mean they are doubting the Indian justice system. It is not good for congress to have such allegiance to foreign thoughts.

3. We also have seen foreign justice system at work during our fight for independence. Many foreigners ruled India. We know how they killed nationalists then. If such thing happens again, I am not worried about such things.

4. Ok, if congress can have faith only in Italian justice system, they can file a case on me in Italian courts. My only request then would be, if such a court gives me death penalty, that execution is carried in Hindustan because that is my last wish.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Feb 2013 09:46

RamaY essentially it is the same old paradigm, an Emperor enjoys his power only with the help of vassals. Hence, I said earlier that Modi must cultivate other regional netas in an earlier page. A good section of BRF gurus agree he cannot get sufficient number of seats in several states to form a BJP. onlee government. That is as per today's reading. In the days to come, he will gain more traction among desh nivasis and equations could change.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Feb 2013 10:06

Thanks RamaY-saar for the clarifications. I doubt if the demographics change will cause any tectonic shifts in Kerala and the conversions are not binary (the susceptible classes have all developed influential voter bases and spiritual groupings of their own - heavy resistance is met by EJ types).

The current govt is wobbly because the minority coalition partners for the first time since state formation, have a weak CM to toy around with. But they are not getting anywhere and if there is an election, massive defeat at the hands of LDF is assured.

abhishek_sharma wrote: However, I am sure you will understand when others lose their temper and you get similar treatment.

Of course I would understand "similar treatment", if I go and constantly insult an entire state in India. I had seen folks do that with West Bengal and I wonder how it sounds to folks who actually fought commies their entire lives?

People had in the past, got angry with me on other occasions in BRF and I had sometimes fought back, sometimes apologized. I rarely comment on other states's affairs in a disparaging way and when folks were bandying about stuff that does not compute, I got to speak up.

But I understand, we are all on the same side as Indians. And I stick with my apology

he does not have any real strength with people( I mean base) to really mount challenge the duffers in his party

krisna, he cannot be easily categorized as a Delhi Champagne Politician, like say, Shree Karat. He has won an election with record tally on a difficult seat, last time (his party lost seats in that election elsewhere), against heavy odds (as I said, his own caste disowned him, other cong leaders actively campaigned against him etc). He does not have a faction in side Kerala, because a lot of the local leaders dont get him and he doesnt seem to get involved in their local fights. But if he wins the next one (which is an uphill task), I suspect things will change and he will become a nucleus.

He is at risk due to the UPA II issues. Two strong candidates who can give him a great challenge are O Rajagopal-ji of BJP and Shree M Vijayakumar of CPI-M. They both are extremely capable (and really affable) grassroots leaders, with their own mass appeal.

(My last post on Dr Tharoor, as this thread is for Shree Modi)

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Feb 2013 10:11

>> Of course I would understand "similar treatment" ...

Wonderful. You will need to understand.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Feb 2013 10:28

Thanks hnair-saar for the insight. Clearly since we are not from Trivandrum, and hence not well versed in the local aspects of ST, we probably see the Con side far more clearly, and do not get see his good sides -- so the filling in certainly helps.

The problem is that anything that will be seen as being coupled with a certain Delhi based family today invokes deep anger in many of us.

People like Tharoor, Scindia, Pilot etc should chose.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 21 Feb 2013 10:49

A question, in general.

Modi might be popular among the people who can read the newspapers in India.

What about a lot of the voters who cannot and do not read the papers and news media and new media?

They are a significant number and might swing it away from him again. What are peoples thoughts on the matter?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 21 Feb 2013 11:04

mahadevbhu wrote:Modi might be popular among the people who can read the newspapers in India.

What about a lot of the voters who cannot and do not read the papers and news media and new media?

They are a significant number and might swing it away from him again. What are peoples thoughts on the matter?

Good question, and this link provides one possible answer: Modi looms large in absentia

This talks about a BJP youth wing meet from Chattisgarh, and the refrain of the 9000 youth workers was completely for Modi. These are the folks who would spread the word once they head back to their towns and villages.

This holds for states where the BJP is strong organizationally though - perhaps not as much in the South and East.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Feb 2013 11:06

Sanku-saar, understood, hence my attempt at clarifying. Some of us, in Trivandrum have been operating on Rumsfeld principle "you fight with the weapons you have, not what you want", so we work with whomever makes the cut, regardless of party (exception: community based parties). The other option in front of us is to vacate our ancestor's homes and shift to other parts of India, so gulf money can slink in and occupy the ancient buildings.

Some take that choice and I wont blame them. But not all do so, as madani found out, two decades back

abhishek_sharma wrote:Wonderful. You will need to understand.

poda... verattathey

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Feb 2013 11:12

>> poda... verattathey

What does that mean?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Feb 2013 11:58

The angrezi press (at least online versions but also the 2 print versions I get at home) features Modi on a daily basis for some story or the other. They have to as that's what their readers seem to prefer to eulogies of Rahul/priyanka's dimpled cheeks.

Wonder what the scene is like in the vernacular media. Telugu media is sadly obsessed with intra AP politics and spares nary a thought outside. Else, I'm sure NM's successes would have found resonance there.

What is the scene like in kannada, hindi and the bangla press, I wonder...

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 21 Feb 2013 12:09

abhishek_sharma wrote:>> poda... verattathey

What does that mean?

poda means

gets lost in tamil.

verathattey may mean ,......

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 21 Feb 2013 12:12

Modi came out yesterday with the budget for Gujarat state. GDP grew at 8.5% for FY '12, and fiscal deficit is contained at around 2.6%.

Would be good to contrast with UPA's handling of the economy when the Union budget is revealed next week. Fiscal deficit most likely at around 5.5% and GDP growth% probably even below the fiscal deficit figure !

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 21 Feb 2013 12:40

Gujarat riot victims seek protection from 'money-minting' NGOs - DNA

“These NGOs are also involved in making documentary films on our society and showing it to international bodies and have obtained huge grants in the name of providing financial and legal support to us,” they said.

“We are living peacefully and do not want any support from these NGOs who have done nothing for us,” the letter said.

One of the signatories of the letter, who wished to remain anonymous, told DNA: “We respect the help the NGOs extended to take the case to a proper legal process. But the society issues are ours only. These NGOs talked about converting such homes to museums but they have been just letting the issue linger on. But some people are now tired and want to sell their flats and move on.”

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 21 Feb 2013 15:52

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/budge ... a/1077415/

The Rs 1,14,450-crore Gujarat budget for financial year 2013-2014 proposed by Finance Minister Nitin Patel in the state assembly Wednesday, the first of Chief Minister Narendra Modi's newly-elected government, sought to tell the Gujarat growth story vis-a-vis India's and achieve the five-year dream in the first year itself. As Modi put it in a release, "The new budget for 2013-14 would build new confidence among people and showcase state's potentialities before the world."Focussed mainly on youth, farmers and children, it announced new missions and schemes, referring to India as one of "the youngest nations across the globe". The budget announced skill development corporations, new schools and foreign language courses to be taken up by the education department. A press statement by Modi said, "Even as the Central government earmarks just 35 per cent of the Union Budget for development work, the Gujarat government spends as much as 65 per cent of the state Budget on development work." Talking about Gujarat contributing a lion's share in the nation's development, Modi said, "Although the state government was elected for a five-year term, it resolves to fulfil the people's aspirations from the very first year itself. Although Gujarat's contribution to the nation during the Twelfth Five Year Plan has begun in the outgoing financial year, the state government proposes to take Gujarat to greater heights, contributing a lion's share to the nation's development as well, for a prosperous future."....

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 21 Feb 2013 16:12

mahadevbhu wrote:A question, in general.

Modi might be popular among the people who can read the newspapers in India.

What about a lot of the voters who cannot and do not read the papers and news media and new media?

They are a significant number and might swing it away from him again. What are peoples thoughts on the matter?

For the lesser intellectual people of India (which includes non readers of newspapers, rural people or ignorant urban people) Modi is a Hindu icon. And IMO they might be willing to vote him just for that.

Recently I was in Jammu, UP and Uttarakhand. People there believe that BJP does not get enough seats because pro Hidus do not have a candidate of their choice. Because of this in most cases they vote for caste based parties. Far too many of them donot even vote. Whereas nearly ALL muslims do go to vote. But this time they are all waiting for Modi as THE candidate. They are less interested in development talks. They just want a man with a Hindu steel in him. This propagation of Modi being anti Muslim is not going to help congoons in any way. LIKH LO.

PS: I know this is not something revealing I'm telling but just got to say that the overall situation in UP is absolutely pathetic.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 21 Feb 2013 17:12

My post on Feb 8th

Muppalla wrote:
ramana wrote:The premise pf my post is INC wants to stop NDA at Delhi and check Jagan in state. So can TSP check Jagan in state and support a Turd front to keep communal forces out of power? And get some development package?

Who are the levers on TDP from abroad?

Recall UPA was forged when Anil Ambani forced Mulayam Yadav to swallow his pride and support Sonia Gandhi's INC alliance.

So who are the levers for all the million sundry parties? We need to understand them.
This is the fundamental analysis that needs to be done to assess Modi's chances. Otherwise all Modi fans will just be depressed if even on this thread we don't go the bottom of this and just keep doing wah-wah. Modi is wah wah and there is no need for that education anymore. Trying to educate who hate Modi is useless and waste of time.

As a starter - EU made a statement, ny times had an article and slowly the Modi mania is creeping through. That means there will some back door maneuvering and positioning with Plan A, Plan b type stuff.

The fundamental line of the west is no to BJP, no to NDA and no to Modi for sure. Why and what can be discussed

Modi wave is sweeping and that does not mean in any way that BJP will cross 180 out of 540. A full heart out sweep will put BJP at 190 and there is no way in heaven or hell that BJP can cross 190. Bring that 190 to 272/300 is a coalition and it needs a lot of partners whose leavers are all over the world. This is the next battle that Modi ji's team needs to analyze and conquer one at a time.

The only advantage that Modi has and which eluded ABV and Advani is that his team can compete financially with any mikel-a-lal. Looks like he has the abilities to pull string from even mighty Ambanis. His team should be able to allocate at the rate of 200 crore per seat for all the seats where there is competition.
Added later:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nare ... 49489.html
This looks like an allegation but I hope that is true. Unless you combine corporates interests with governance and a balance, he cannot win and also he will not succeed in his agenda of making a massive difference.

Krishna's post along with two articles (India Today and NVS)

krisna wrote:http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1413341
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1414062
He is being propelled upwards by a force far more potent than the organised might of the BJP and RSS. The only thing that can stop Modi is Modi himself.

There are clearly forces at play that no one understands that are propelling Narendra Modi to Delhi. It would be futile to stop him. Like in 1996, many Congress stalwarts are prepared to jump ship. They have opened negotiations with the Bharatiya Janata Party. They want Modi to come and clean up the system. This is bad news for the Congress. Then consider the bureaucracy. After the Indian Administrative Service, the Indian Police Service ranks second in corruption and venality, and because it has so much at stake, it keeps robustly abreast of the current political wind direction. Senior IPS officers are openly talking about an imminent Narendra Modi government at the Centre, and they are a scared lot. Six months ago, this writer was alone to bet that the gates of Delhi would open wide to welcome Modi. That’s happening now. Contrary to the fears of most, however, this writer’s own understanding is that Modi will not be vindictive, and will single-mindedly strive to be an outstanding prime minister. He will aim to surpass Vajpayee and even Jawaharlal Nehru, and history is on his side.
My post
From what I hear and see, the NaMo bashing has subtly chnaged colors over time-

1) From communalvadi/hindutva poster boy - godhra riots criminal conspiracy etc which has lost its relevance with more congi perfidy coming to light now than before.
2) NaMo may not be a PM material due to various reasons like India is not Gujarat, ethics etc and what not also losing traction
3) to now rahul duffer and NaMo are both not good enough material for PMship.
4) ....... waiting for more with bated breath.

NaMo sure has come a long way from the standards of paid media and other congi crooks.
The paid media has never ventured to attack the <--????--> and others in their support to NaMo.

Is it because the <----?????------> also feeds the paid media and congis gravy train of corruption. henec the media does not attack them with crooks/articles etc.
have the big wigs decided to park their money to NaMo.
are their wheels within wheels at play.

-------------------------------------------------------------
will have to keep a watch on money makers to see which way the wind blows.

Things are moving in the right direction. We need to just watch out if there are any plots and detours.

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 21 Feb 2013 17:31

krisna wrote:

Speech of NaMo at chennai in 2011 in english.

Listen carefully to the speech.
No politican in India can speak like him with regards to the needs of India.

secularism talk around 35 minutes onwards. Clear and to the point.

great speaker and talks facts and the vision and what not.

Now non hindi speakers should not grumble about his lack of english speeches.(includes me)

No Modi baiters will ever talk all his speeches consistently revolve around development and other aspects.
his speeches involve all sections of society without naming any caste or religion unlike the communal/caste based parties led by congis.

Never knew Modi can speak engleesh!! That too as fluently as this and that too without written script!! And my word what a speed that was. Hates off.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 21 Feb 2013 17:51

kapilrdave wrote:
Recently I was in Jammu, UP and Uttarakhand. People there believe that BJP does not get enough seats because pro Hidus do not have a candidate of their choice. Because of this in most cases they vote for caste based parties. Far too many of them donot even vote.

That is a confusing argument. It's like two lambs voting for a wolf because they don't like the lamb who is contesting the elections.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 21 Feb 2013 18:41

Nachiket sir, logically it is but in reality it is not. This was the theory I had made a decade ago and had stood the test of time. BJP person has to be Gold, where as a Cong person can be $hit and it is a fair contest. If BJP person falls to Silver where as Cong maintains it's $hit, they will win. Why? People who swing between BJP and Congress vote for BJP and Congress for different reason. It could be Hindutava and high ideal for BJP (and hence candidate who is of high quality) and for Cong it could be NREGA, Liquour, Caste and hence the candidate does not matter as long as these things are in line.
If the situation is as such, and there is a reason for people to vote for say Hindutava, the common BJP/Con voter will vote BJP as long as the candidate is right and he is not being made a chutiya. E.g. - They voted ABV, but say did not vote Advani/RS in 2009 in UP as RS was considered a castiest leader and corrupt, not worthy of Hindutava ideal.
rgds,
fanne

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 21 Feb 2013 18:55

The argument is simple. They don't see BJP candidates as true Hindu leaders. They didn't build the Ram Temple while in power neither they did any particular favor to Hindu. They value the Ram Temple so much. I must admit that the people I met were a bit of Hindu fundamentalist type but they did have a good measure of local politics. As per the last elections the vote bank is split between Hindu fundamentalists (BJP), Dalits (BSP) and Muslims+Dalits (SP). Congress chips in between. Clearly a good amount of votes are going to BSP from BJP's stake and the ultimate winner is SP. Pro Hindus either fall into caste based politics or donot vote. The BJP wallas are hoping that people will come out to vote on Modi's name and a good chunk will be snatched from BSP.

My personal opinion is that these people are going to be disappointed yet again by Modi. He will concentrate only on development and skip the Ram Temple. But then they will taste the fruit of development and perhaps then they will change their view.

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 21 Feb 2013 19:05

fanne wrote:Nachiket sir, logically it is but in reality it is not. This was the theory I had made a decade ago and had stood the test of time. BJP person has to be Gold, where as a Cong person can be $hit and it is a fair contest. If BJP person falls to Silver where as Cong maintains it's $hit, they will win. Why? People who swing between BJP and Congress vote for BJP and Congress for different reason. It could be Hindutava and high ideal for BJP (and hence candidate who is of high quality) and for Cong it could be NREGA, Liquour, Caste and hence the candidate does not matter as long as these things are in line.
If the situation is as such, and there is a reason for people to vote for say Hindutava, the common BJP/Con voter will vote BJP as long as the candidate is right and he is not being made a chutiya. E.g. - They voted ABV, but say did not vote Advani/RS in 2009 in UP as RS was considered a castiest leader and corrupt, not worthy of Hindutava ideal.
rgds,
fanne

Well, I must say that even BJP leaders are not Gold in UP. One has to be in UP to see what a mess it is in. The very reason they vote for caste based politics is that they don't know what development is.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 21 Feb 2013 19:07

fanne wrote:Nachiket sir, logically it is but in reality it is not. This was the theory I had made a decade ago and had stood the test of time. BJP person has to be Gold, where as a Cong person can be $hit and it is a fair contest. If BJP person falls to Silver where as Cong maintains it's $hit, they will win. Why? People who swing between BJP and Congress vote for BJP and Congress for different reason. It could be Hindutava and high ideal for BJP (and hence candidate who is of high quality) and for Cong it could be NREGA, Liquour, Caste and hence the candidate does not matter as long as these things are in line.
If the situation is as such, and there is a reason for people to vote for say Hindutava, the common BJP/Con voter will vote BJP as long as the candidate is right and he is not being made a chutiya. E.g. - They voted ABV, but say did not vote Advani/RS in 2009 in UP as RS was considered a castiest leader and corrupt, not worthy of Hindutava ideal.
rgds,
fanne

First of all, please drop the "sir". I am just another unwashed abdul and do not deserve any honorific.

Your theory is not too far from my observation actually. The lamb-wolf analogy still applies IMO. The lambs will happily vote for the wolf if he throws them some crumbs to fatten them up. They are completely blind to the obvious long-term danger posed by the wolf. But they will refuse to vote for the lamb unless it is the most honest and upstanding lamb around.

What this means in real terms is that most of our populace has not yet recognized the dangers posed by INC policies like minority appeasement, encouragement of hardliners from minority communities, rampant corruption, compromising on national interests in foreign policy, etc. Unless they do, they will continue to consider caste and dole-outs as the most important election issues.

NaMo and BJP's main challenge is convincing people of the same. It is made more difficult by the poverty sustaining economic policies of the INC. If you can't feed your family, anyone who gives the most dole-outs starts looking like the best candidate.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 21 Feb 2013 19:23

Arjun wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:Modi might be popular among the people who can read the newspapers in India.

What about a lot of the voters who cannot and do not read the papers and news media and new media?

They are a significant number and might swing it away from him again. What are peoples thoughts on the matter?
Good question, and this link provides one possible answer: Modi looms large in absentia

This talks about a BJP youth wing meet from Chattisgarh, and the refrain of the 9000 youth workers was completely for Modi. These are the folks who would spread the word once they head back to their towns and villages.

This holds for states where the BJP is strong organizationally though - perhaps not as much in the South and East.

Yet, it was Gujarat CM, Narendra Modi, who stole the show despite staying put more than 1,180 km away in Ahmedabad. Modi loomed large over the proceedings through the convention as thousands of saffron activists unabashedly rooted for him in what was seen as a clear message to Delhi-based leaders to acknowledge Gujarat CM's pre-eminence soon enough.

Sources in the party said that the BYJM workers peppered Rajnath Singh's valedictory address with "desh ka neta kaisa ho, Narendra Modi Jaisa ho" slogan. The same slogan had rent the air, when MP CM Chauhan, another highly-regarded saffron administrator who is ranked only next to Modi, praised Gujarat's accomplishments in development. On the night of February 11-12, the entire gathering stood up to applaud Manveer 'Madhur" for five minutes at 12.30 am when the young participant in Kavi Sammelan suggested that only a leader with spunk can meet the challenge from Pakistan.

BJP sources said that the support for Modi at the event cannot be over emphasized. The gathering comprised active functionaries of the outfit who could not have been innocent about either RSS disapproval of eulogizing individuals or the continuing opposition from a set of BJP leaders to the idea that Modi be anointed the spearhead of party's 2014 challenge. A senior BJP leader also stressed that the overwhelming majority â€” more than 80% of the participants â€” were drawn from OBCs/SCs and STs â€” categories that are supposed to be immune to the appeal of Modi disparaged by his critics as a middle-class phenomenon.

In fact, the endorsement from Chhattisgarh followed a similar show of support for Gujarat CM in Patna last month. Sources said the workers, who had assembled at Ravindra Bhawan in Bihar capital to fete Mangal Pandey, a confidant of Bihar's deputy CM Sushil Modi, launched into an impromptu slogan hailing Gujarat CM as "desh-ka-neta": a development rich in significance considering that Bihar CM Nitish Kumar's steadfast opposition to Modi.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 21 Feb 2013 19:55

Sanku wrote: True, and that is why I have ONLY one expectation/hope/wish from a NaMo PM --> destroy the dynasty utterly. All the scams, from Cash for votes, to oil for food Volker, to AW to coal gate should be unleashed with such fury that they spend their nights and days in a court room if not in Tihar.

This time there should be no mistakes of ABV of underestimating the C-system. Kill the system, from the root.

That will be difficult, there are too many people within the BJP who would go down if the C-system goes down.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Feb 2013 20:20

No state is perfect in electing leaders, but some states have performed worse than others. Kerala and WB have certainly shown worse judgment than others given decades of communist rule.

This should trigger introspection. Licking Shashi Tharoor is not going to solve this problem.

And offering arguments like "Event X happened in place Y, it did not happen in Z. Therefore Y is better than Z", is another sign of deteriorating mental health. Even kids in second grade know that we should consider events in an extended period of time to reach correct conclusions. Still, we hear such third-rate arguments from some people. Why? The most charitable explanation is that they have limited mental capabilities.