Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 29 Oct 2015 19:37

BharadwajV wrote:This looks freaking awesome:

BTW, whose namesake is "Kalvari" ?

Kalvari - tiger shark, as seen in the artwork. Small, yet vicious.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 21:03

one extra kilo may be purchased to replace the destroyed one. but problem is older 877EKM models
differ from current 636 model. might be tough to have a one off.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 21:07

The Project 636 design is a generally improved development of the Project 877EKM Kilo class that represents an interim design between the standard 'Kilo' and the new Lada project. The Project 636 is actively promoted for the world market by the Rosvoorouzhenie state-owned company. This submarine has improved range, firepower, acoustic characteristics and reliability. Visually distinguished by a step on the aft casing, the length of the hull is extended by two frame spacings (2 x 600 mm). The additional length permitted increasing the power of diesel-generators and mounting them on improved shock-absorbing support, and reducing twofold the main propulsion shaft speed. Owing to these improvements, the submarine speed and sea endurance were increased, while the noise level was radically decreased. The low noise level of the submarine has been achieved with the selection of quiet machinery, vibration and noise isolation and a special anti-acoustic rubber coating applied on the outer hull surface.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Oct 2015 21:17

636 has evolved into its own variant , The original 636 and then 636M was sold to China/Algeria , later variant of 636 dubbed 636.1 was sold to Vietnam and Algeria , The late model 636 currently being built is the 636.3 variant is only built for Russian Navy Black Sea Fleet and has a submerged displacement of ~ 4000T.

I dont know how much truth is there to this kilo news but with the dwindling Submarine Force low in number and existing Kilo undergoing 2nd refit which means some submarine wont be there there is a chance they might buy few number to keep submarine fleet at certain minimum operational level.

Not sure what is with Type 209 and how much of it is still operational with Navy we rarely hear about them if at all.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 21:20

i think the 209s are used for intel gathering , marcos, sneaking around....vs the more strike role of the kilos. all 4 are based in mumbai.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 29 Oct 2015 21:47

^^^
"The INS Kolkata was delayed by nearly four years partly because of tardy deliveries of the propulsion system. Like the Kolkata, the Visakhapatnam is also being powered by four gas turbines from Ukrainian firm Zorya-Mashproekt.

The engines have been ordered and we do not foresee a problem, Vice-Admiral Ashok Subhedar, controller of warship production and acquisitions (CWP&A), said today. "We are keeping tabs on the developments (in Ukraine) and Russia will help out."

Good luck with getting the Russians to help out. They are on really good terms with the Ukies.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150417/j ... jJT0-InSQk

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 30 Oct 2015 00:24

IIRC, the problems in P-15A was on account of the shaft and not the GTs per se. The shaft was supposed to be procured from Ukraine but Russia supplied them instead.

Cosmo_R wrote:^^^
"The INS Kolkata was delayed by nearly four years partly because of tardy deliveries of the propulsion system. Like the Kolkata, the Visakhapatnam is also being powered by four gas turbines from Ukrainian firm Zorya-Mashproekt.

The engines have been ordered and we do not foresee a problem, Vice-Admiral Ashok Subhedar, controller of warship production and acquisitions (CWP&A), said today. "We are keeping tabs on the developments (in Ukraine) and Russia will help out."

Good luck with getting the Russians to help out. They are on really good terms with the Ukies.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150417/j ... jJT0-InSQk

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 30 Oct 2015 00:31

Indian Navy today operates 62 major surface combatants, ranging from Corvettes to Aircraft Carriers. This will decline to 55 ships in 2025, mostly on account of retiring corvettes of both Missile and ASW variety. Furthermore, ASW capability will be hit further due to retiring Rajputs.

Talwars have both ASW and Missile capability - unlike Project 17 frigates.

So despite the make in india drive, you can still do with these three ships. Alternatively place long order for more Project 28 corvettes and Next Generation Missile Vessels.

RKumar wrote:IN has clearly stated that we will not import what we can build at home. It is not one time buy and forget but we have to maintain it throughout the life. And I am quite sure Rus want their share of blood, forget the days when we could buy something at a discounted price. Anyway, they will find a way so that we pay through the nose. So it is better to say no at the beginning then having a trouble at later point like our last aircraft carrier.

Just my opinion, I also don't buy the argument of buying 2 new kilo subs or discussions on any 3rd no-clear sub lease. These are all stories created by either media or import lobby. Anyway, we will find out the truth in coming month.

titash · Post by **titash** » 30 Oct 2015 01:18

Aditya G wrote:Indian Navy today operates 62 major surface combatants, ranging from Corvettes to Aircraft Carriers. This will decline to 55 ships in 2025, mostly on account of retiring corvettes of both Missile and ASW variety. Furthermore, ASW capability will be hit further due to retiring Rajputs.

Talwars have both ASW and Missile capability - unlike Project 17 frigates.

So despite the make in india drive, you can still do with these three ships. Alternatively place long order for more Project 28 corvettes and Next Generation Missile Vessels.

RKumar wrote:IN has clearly stated that we will not import what we can build at home. It is not one time buy and forget but we have to maintain it throughout the life. And I am quite sure Rus want their share of blood, forget the days when we could buy something at a discounted price. Anyway, they will find a way so that we pay through the nose. So it is better to say no at the beginning then having a trouble at later point like our last aircraft carrier.

Just my opinion, I also don't buy the argument of buying 2 new kilo subs or discussions on any 3rd no-clear sub lease. These are all stories created by either media or import lobby. Anyway, we will find out the truth in coming month.

I would venture to say that while the threat perception is increasing, the tonnage & capabilities of individual IN ships are likewise increasing. Each of the new destroyers coming online has superb AShW / AAW / ASW capabilities. The surface fleet numbers look ok:

5 Rajputs --> replaced with 'Chennai' + 4 Vishakapatnam class
3 Godavaris --> replaced with 3 new Talwars
Delhi, Kolkata, Brahmaputra, Talwar, Shivalik --> still in service with upgrades
4 Khukri --> replaced with 6 NGMV corvettes
4 Kora --> still in service with upgrades
4 Pauk --> replaced with 16 ASW craft
12 Tarantuls --> here's the gap, but it's actually not that difficult to build cheap missile craft
But then the 3 additional Kamortas + 7 more P-17A warships actually boost fleet numbers rather than 1:1 replacements

The preferred way to deal with a submarine at long range is by the ASW helicopter. The P-17s have 2 such helicopters whereas the Talwars will most likely carry none (if they on-board a Ka-31). In any case, I doubt the preferred new NMRH SeaHawks are compatible with russian ships. The P-17 is superior any day in most respects. It's probably a tad more expensive. The only reason (besides cost) to make Talwars here is for standardization and to have a local shipyard that's experienced enough to maintain them over 30 years, carry out mid-life refits, and perform upgrades as needed.

srai · Post by **srai** » 30 Oct 2015 04:40

titash wrote:...
12 Tarantuls --> here's the gap, but it's actually not that difficult to build cheap missile craft
...

Those are more suited for "brown/green-water" navy whereas the IN's shift is towards "blue-water" capability.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 30 Oct 2015 04:49

^^^ "Alternatively place long order for more Project 28 corvettes and Next Generation Missile Vessels."

Yes. don't rely on too many moving parts. Especially since no one knows what zorya mashproekt's supply chain looks like (hint: how much is in the region close to Russia).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Oct 2015 07:57

a lot of russian navy ships themselves would have zorya turbines

I think all of their krivak & udaloy class uses zorya?
their bigger ships had steam turbines and might be safe.

these two seem to be on most of their gas turbine ships. who makes them? M62 cruise gas turbines and two M8KF boost gas turbines

http://news.usni.org/2015/06/10/russian ... dge-to-sue

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 30 Oct 2015 09:16

Video of Grigorovich ( Russian Talwar ) class on Firing Trials , VLS Shtil-1 and Gun Firing trials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv9EWyHdQvI

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Oct 2015 12:12

The Adm.Grig. FFGs have a more enclosed lower deck at the stern,when compared with our Talwars. Watching the cold launch of a Shtil right from the silo was great. Apart from the Diwali "2 Kilo" offer,the second Akula lease decision is critical,which needs to be sealed during the summit.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/14427/ ... jMeim4Ze1s

Decision On Leasing Second Russian Nuclear Sub During Indo-Russian Summit
Source : Our Bureau ~ Dated : Wednesday, October 28, 2015 @ 08:10 AM
[Kashalot K-322 nuclear powered submarine]

Russia has offered to lease another nuclear submarine to India if an agreement for the same is signed at the summit between the two nations in December.

The possibility of leasing a second submarine from Russia will be studied during India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar’s visit to Moscow next week, Tass quoted a Defense Ministry source as saying Monday.

"Parrikar will hold talks on this strategic project with his Russian counterpart Sergey Shoigu. After the ten-year contract is signed another two or three years will be required for upgrading the submarine in keeping with India’s requirements," he said.

Negotiations on leasing Kashalot K-322 nuclear powered submarine of Shchuka project 971 are at the final phase, Tass reported quoting a Russian military source at the Russian Embassy in New Delhi as saying.

"If the contract is signed, it will be the third Russia-built submarine handed over to the Indian Navy," he said. "For the first time India leased a Russian nuclear submarine for ten years back in the early 1980s. In 2012 the Indian Navy leased Russia’s K-152 Nerpa submarine of project 971. This is a customary and well-tested way of cooperation by our countries in the military-technical sphere."

According to the Russian source, the submarine will undergo fundamental upgrade in line with the customer’s requirements at the Amur shipyards, where it is at the moment. The repair, upgrade and testing work and the Indian crew’s training are to be completed by 2018.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 30 Oct 2015 13:12

Austin wrote:Video of Grigorovich ( Russian Talwar ) class on Firing Trials , VLS Shtil-1 and Gun Firing trials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv9EWyHdQvI

ss-n-27 Launch tube at an angle? Sure this is grigorovich?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 31 Oct 2015 06:03

titash wrote:4 Khukri --> replaced with 6 NGMV corvettes
4 Pauk --> replaced with 16 ASW craft

Problem is, there are no orders placed for these vessels. We have been hearing about shallow water ASW craft for a while but no order has been placed. NGMV is still in RFI stage.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 31 Oct 2015 06:07

SLNS Sagara, ex ICGS Varaha - Vikram class OPV.

Leased in 2006, transferred in 2015.

http://www.nation.lk/2007/10/14/militarym.htm

14-10-2007

Varaha sees action

The former Indian Coast Guard Ship, SLNS Sagara, finally saw action this week when she, along with the Navy’s flagship Sayura (also from India), and the Israeli built fast missile vessel SLNS Suranimala, sank what is said to be the last of the LTTE’s cargo ships. The encounter happened on October 7, 1700 km’s south of Dondra Point, in international waters.
The event marked the baptism of SLNS Sagara to the offensive OPV fleet of the navy, which has further being strengthened by its latest addition.
At a reception, Navy Commander Vice Admiral Wasantha Karannagoda yesterday received and returned a salute in a ceremony that was not made public. Karannagoda took the opportunity to “pass over his deepest and heartfelt appreciation to the ships’ crews for their dedication and unwavering efforts in defeating terrorism by obstructing the transporting of lethal weaponry by means of destroying the floating arms warehouses.”
“The Sri Lanka navy has now gained ‘blue water” capability for the defence of the country from the most heinous LTTE terrorism,” states a Navy release.
On February 25 this year, The Nation exclusively reported that the Indian government had donated an Offshore Patrol Craft, the second of its kind given by our neighbour, to the Sri Lankan Navy.
The transfer of the Indian Coast Guard Ship (CGS), Varaha, to Sri Lanka has been a low profile matter with the Indian side not wanting to arouse passions in its important southern states over increased military cooperation with Sri Lanka.
The transfer was a marked contrast to the donation of a similar coast guard ship from the United Sates during the previous regime. The former US Coast Guard Cutter, Courageous, was commissioned as the Sri Lanka Navy’s Ship (SLNS), Samudura, with much pomp and pageantry. In contrast, the re-commissioning of CGS Varaha as SLNS Sagara took place sans media attention. CGS Varaha has been in service with the navy since last year while Sayura was undergoing refurbishment in India. However, with the return of Sayura to Sri Lanka, the Indian government, after some persuasion, agreed to transfer its coast guard ship to boost the island’s defences against LTTE weapon smuggling vessels.
SLNS Sagara is a Vikram class OPV, which was first commissioned in 1992. At the time of construction it was designed to be in service for 20 years until 2012. However, after some modifications, the vessel is expected to be in service for approximately 26 years.
The 75 metre long ship requires a crew of 100, including 11 officers. It can reach a top speed of 22 knots while having a range of 8500 nautical miles.
SLNS Sagara was a notable absentee in the naval flotilla that took part in the Independence Day celebrations in February this year. It was also not involved in the epic encounter on September 11, when four navy ships engaged and sank three LTTE weapons carrying ships. On that occasion, SLNS Sayura, the largest vessel of the navy—also purchased from India—along with SLNS Samudura, SLNS Suranimala, and SLNS Shakthi were involved in the operation. Although, the SLNS Shakthi is mainly used as a troop carrier rather than an Offshore Petrol Vessel (OPV), and is not ideally suited for an offensive mission.
The omission of SLNS Sagara in this sea battle had led some to believe that the Indian government had imposed certain restrictions on the use of its former vessel for offensive operations.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 31 Oct 2015 06:31

Good noises coming out of this roos visit imho..ffg, kilo, akula, fgfa, s400; current GOIs intent is clear, and all of these were required yesterday, these will be amongst the last imports from india, and can't be helped. Good news is that domestic equivalents in all these areas are on the way, but depleting numbers leave the govt no choice...we can't be denuded for the next 5 years awaiting domestic equivalents..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 31 Oct 2015 08:58

Cybaru wrote:
Austin wrote:Video of Grigorovich ( Russian Talwar ) class on Firing Trials , VLS Shtil-1 and Gun Firing trials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv9EWyHdQvI
ss-n-27 Launch tube at an angle? Sure this is grigorovich?

IF you look closely that the Styx missile fired from another ship used as target missile for the test of Grigorovich

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 31 Oct 2015 10:17

HSL bulk carrier may be sold to Navy
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 804976.ece

Now by involving GML, HSL is exploring selling the bulk carrier to the Navy. The latter has also evinced keen interest.“It is at initial stage as we have started tripartite negotiations,” HSL Chairman and Managing Director Rear Admiral N.K. Mishra told The Hindu .Sources in HSL said once they get funds, they could deliver the vessel within three to four months.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Oct 2015 12:37

other than a arsenal ship featuring 200 brahmos tubes, what could the IN use it for ? convert to a tanker ? dry cargo supply ship ? floating marcos and submarine tender ?

soumik · Post by **soumik** » 31 Oct 2015 15:30

about the two kilos I still think its better we spend the amount mandated for P75I in buying 20+ kilos outright.
While it would not give us an Uber modern boat what we would gain is numbers, combined with the 6+2 scorpenes it would mean we would be able to deploy a 25+ SSK fleet well into the 2030's. We could use the time gained to develop our own domestic SSK line in this period.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 31 Oct 2015 15:47

Kilos can be quickly operationalised as we know them well. A Kilo with desi AESA plug would be formidable. But it will still have it's shortcomings, the foremost being not being able to fire Brahmos/Nirbhay ityadi.

Yes, about 6 for $2bln would be great interim deal esp. if we can build them domestically. Suddenly domestic sub manufacturing would look very interesting, with Kalvari and Arihant class, P-75I and the new SSN lines. Enough to keep L&T, Reliance/Pipav, ABG, HSL, MDL all happy and IN super-happy. I can only drool at what this will do to Indian GDP.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 31 Oct 2015 15:48

uddu wrote:HSL bulk carrier may be sold to Navy
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 804976.ece

From same article:

The shipyard, which was transferred to the Ministry of Defence in 2010 from Ministry of Shipping at present, has an order book of Rs.215 crore – mostly for ship repairs. It is confident of making a turnaround once the long awaited orders for Landing Platform Docks, Strategic Operating Vessels and Fleet Support Ships, all at a total value of around Rs.25,000 crore are placed in next few months.

Strategic Operating Vessel?

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 31 Oct 2015 15:50

6 new SSNs?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 31 Oct 2015 16:05

Midget submarines apparently. I thought it was L&T which got the order.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Vis ... 476365.ece

HSL, which is suffering from poor order book, is in the process of getting an order from the MoD for construction of two Strategic Operating Vessels (midgets) each at a cost of Rs.3,000 crore.

Seems to be an ongoing explosion in ship design and construction in India. Thanks to the Navy who brought these yards to a standard.

Philip saar will be pleased with this beauty:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 782574.ece

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 31 Oct 2015 16:40

https://jugalthepurohit.wordpress.com/2 ... cessfully/

The newly installed Tsunami Early Warning System Siren was successfully tested today between 12:00 – 12:10 PM near INS Angre, Fort area, SBS Marg, Mumbai. The Siren and a Digital Electronic Board is part of a system for issuing early warning in case of a Tsunami threat in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR). The siren has been connected to the electronic Display board and will now be remotely controlled by Indian National Centre for Ocean Information Services (INCOIS), Hyderabad. The siren will operate for a continuously for one min in case of a possible Tsunami threat in the coastal region.

Based on a request by the Indian Navy, The system is installed at the Meteorology Office of Western Naval Command by INCOIS, an autonomous organisation under Ministry of Earth & Sciences (MoES), Government of India. The system has far reaching impact on the reaction time available to the Indian Navy in responding to the natural calamity and saving lives.

Location of the sensors is seen on this map:

https://jugalthepurohit.files.wordpress ... 5/10/3.jpg

These should be bouys on the surface?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 31 Oct 2015 16:46

several interesting titbits from Jugal Purohits blog on the Kochi.

https://jugalthepurohit.wordpress.com/2 ... ahs-guile/

....

The warship which can carry a compliment of 350 sailors and 40 officers also has two exclusive hangars to load and carry Seaking42B helicopters of the IN. These copters, among other roles, are the best tools when it comes to submarine detection. However, an acute shortage of helicopters, of all kinds, thanks to a convoluted procurement process means there are no choppers to spare. However, sources said, “Flying helos in an integral manner with a ship as a concept is dead in the navy . This paucity and maintenance issues have led us to a situation where we lend helicopters to ships when they need it. Otherwise, they are at shore-based facilities.”

....

His crew has been together for over a year now, learning, training on the job as newer systems are installed by equipment manufacturers. “We can’t have technicians coming in to repair, when in action. So, our sailors master equipment and officers look at systems. All expertise is available in house,” said an officer.

....

Navy’s ‘networked’ capabilites, enhanced in no small measure by the dedicated satellite Rukmini, means Kochi like any other ship at sea and key instalations on shore remain on the same page. “Threats, action being taken, weapon used etc is known to all on a real-time basis be it a a plane, a submarine, a small ship, a ship like Kochi as well as those who need to know on shore,” explained a source. “Frankly, the only thing which can really hit us is a ballistic missile but nobody fires one on a moving target like a ship, so we are practically impenetrable,” he added.

...

“Accessing internet from the ship is banned totally. We solely rely on our systems for communication,” said an officer. Attacks occur and are fought on an everyday basis. Sources said these attacks would emanate from countries like China, Pakistan and even Russia. “Everyone’s curious to find out more,” smiled a naval officer.

...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Nov 2015 00:49

panduranghari wrote:This is a very good article by Ashley Tellis.

http://carnegieendowment.org/files/making_waves.pdf

US and India to collaborate in develop Indian Aircraft carrier.

No country today possesses the technical capacity to
design and build aircraft carriers like the United States.
And no country today would profit as much from collabo
-
rating with the United States in carrier design and construction as India at a
time when its local dominance in the Indian Ocean is on the cusp of challenge
from China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), which commissioned
its first aircraft carrier in 2012

Philip Lets discuss basic premise of article:
local dominance of Indian Ocean by PLAN.

How to counter it by India if desired?

Need map of Indian OCean
Whats are choke points?
What are options ?
What are drawbacks?
Best option among them?
How to hedge or back up plan?

this US aircraft carrier tie-up might not be best option.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Nov 2015 14:46

The Sad Decline Of India’s Submarine Fleet And How The Navy Is Rebuilding It

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 01 Nov 2015 16:37

Breaking news: BrahMos hits target in maiden test firing from destroyer INS Kochi

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Nov 2015 17:48

Ramanna,will work on it.Here's bit of int. info on new naval bases from neo-colonial extraneous forces! The presence of a permanent RN base in Bahrain will further complicate the challenges for the IN in the future. Add to the huge USN nuclear base at DG and the Anglo-Saxon navies have reach throughout the IOR.China is trying a land route through Tibet,through Pak to the Arabian Sea to offset the "Malacca dilemma".It is most likely to send in dozens of subs into the IOR,also operating out of Gwadar,-a safe haven where even LRMP aircraft will be based, to contest the IN and Anglo-S navies in the IOR.

The IN has to dramatically increase the planned number of subs in the inventory. A min of 24 conventional and 12 N-subs is needed.

https://www.rt.com/uk/320358-royal-navy-base-bahrain/

Watershed moment’: UK starts building new permanent navy base in Bahrain
Published time: 1 Nov, 2015 04:58

The UK has begun the construction of a new Royal Navy facility in Bahrain, which will become the first permanent British military base in the Middle East in over four decades. It is designed to assert influence over the Gulf and to fight extremist elements in the region.

The British Foreign Secretary, accompanied by navy personnel, attended the grand ceremony at Bahrain’s Mina Salman Port, marking the beginning of construction works at the new Royal Navy base.

“The beginning of construction work at Mina Salman Port marks a watershed moment in the UK’s commitment to the region,” Philip Hammond said at the ceremony. “The presence of the Royal Navy in Bahrain is guaranteed into the future, ensuring Britain’s sustained presence east of Suez.”

Bahrain used to be Britain’s primary naval stronghold in the Persian Gulf region. Starting from 1935 it hosted the Royal Navy’s whole Middle Eastern command. For nearly four years, from 1967 until gaining formal independence from the UK in 1971, Bahrain was Britain’s main regional naval base.

The declared primary aim of the base is to help battle the Islamic State and other jihadist and extremist groups present in the region, which Hammond called the “great challenge of our time.”
(Read Iran instead of ISIS! Does ISIS possess even one bumboat? This is typical Brit BS)

Mina Salman port (image from www.globalsecurity.org)Britain reopens Bahrain navy base after 40 yrs – to fight ISIS
"We in Britain, have recognised – perhaps later than we should have – that to prevail in that struggle, we have to tackle all forms of extremism, not just violent extremism,” he said.

Hammond acknowledged that there is a link between non-violent extremism and violent extremism, saying that for decades UK tolerated multiculturalism in a way that eventually contributed to violent forms of extremism flourishing.

“We’ve been too tolerant of intolerance. Too anxious about causing offence instead of standing up for what is right and tackling head-on the radicalizers and the extremists peddling their messages of hatred and division,” Hammond said.

The £15 million ($23 million) base is mainly funded by the Bahraini royal family and is expected to accommodate Britain’s new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers and Type 45 destroyers.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Nov 2015 18:53

But brits do not have many carriers and are not going to have them in near future. Right? So in all probability this will be a base which will be used by all nato forces in case of need.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Nov 2015 19:28

Bahrain is already home to 5th fleet.
Brits are also close to Oman and exercise amphibious landings there.

So looks like NATO protecting its munnas from big bad persian bearded winged god lions

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Nov 2015 21:36

Any news of French involvement in "East of Suez"?

Even this development fits into releasing India for the Indo-Pacific theatre.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Nov 2015 21:51

Philip use this in your assessment:

http://newsworldindia.in/opinion/prime- ... on/143743/

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Nov 2015 22:15

Why the ‘New’ US Trilateral Dialogue With Japan and India Matters

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Nov 2015 22:18

Older data point.

US Will Hold Elevated Trilateral Dialogue with India and Japan

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Nov 2015 10:36

Tx Ramana. Some news about the second Akula.It looks like the announcement will be made during Mr.Modi's visit to Moscow.

Telegraph Calcutta 1/11/15

Second N-sub from Russia
OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT

The Kashalot is in the same class as the INS Chakra (in picture) that is in service with the Indian Navy

New Delhi, Oct. 31: India is in talks with Russia to lease a second nuclear submarine for 10 years.

The K-322 Kashalot is a 27-year-old boat in the same class as the Nerpa - now called the INS Chakra - that is in the service of the Indian Navy on a lease.

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar, who left for Moscow for annual talks with his counterpart Sergey Shoigu, is expected to clinch the deal. But an official announcement on the nuclear submarine would be a rarity since New Delhi and Moscow do not publicly disclose the full extent of the strategic partnership.

"They (projects) may not take final shape during my visit but we would like to prepare some of them for Narendra Modi's visit to Russia in December," Parrikar told the Russian news agency, Tass, before his departure.

Among the projects that may be signed is a joint production facility in India for Kamov Ka-226 helicopters. New Delhi also proposes to buy an unspecified number of S-400 Triumf anti-aircraft missiles from Moscow.

"Then there are Mi-17V-5 helicopters, which we also intend to negotiate and finalise procurement for 48 more. With that, we will have some 280 Mi-17 helicopters," Parrikar said.

For the nuclear submarine, India will most likely pay Russia upfront to refurbish the 8,140-tonne boat. It is currently being repaired. The refurbishment could take up to three years.

This would be the third time that India would lease a nuclear-powered attack submarine from Russia. The Indian Navy's submarine fleet is ageing and has been depleted since the INS Sindhurakshak sank in August 2013.

The first of six conventional diesel-electric submarines, being built with the French at Mumbai, was floated this week.

And the French interest...
https://www.aei.org/publication/liberte ... s-in-asia/

Michael_Mazza_
Liberté de la mer: A case for French naval operations in Asia

A French frigate is docked at Zhanjiang in Guangdong province this week for a good will visit, and two Australian naval vessels will, in the coming days, engage in bilateral exercises with Chinese warships. After they conclude their activities with the Chinese navy, all three of these ships should head for Subi Reef and other (formerly) low-tide elevations in the South China Sea.

There has been much talk about American allies joining it in combined freedom of navigation operations (FONOPS) like the one the USS Lassen carried out late Monday. Such cooperation would be well and good, but it may be even more important for others to carry out FONOPs on their own.
Soldiers of Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) navy look on as French navy command ship Dixmude (L9015) arrives at the Wusong naval port in Shanghai, China, May 9, 2015. REUTERS/Stringer.

Soldiers of Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) navy look on as French navy command ship Dixmude (L9015) arrives at the Wusong naval port in Shanghai, China, May 9, 2015. REUTERS/Stringer.

Unilateral Australian FONOPs, for example, would convey that defending freedom of the seas is a national priority for Canberra outside the confines of the US-Australia alliance. It would signal a willingness to incur Chinese opprobrium all on its own, despite the fact that China is Australia’s top trading partner by a wide margin (Australia’s trade with China is nearly three times larger than its trade with the United States).

Perhaps even more significant would be French FONOPs in the Spratly islands. France is no longer a global power, but it does have global responsibilities. Indeed, it is a resident power in the Pacific: French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna are all French dependencies.

France also has island holdings in the eastern Pacific and southern Indian Ocean (Réunion was in the news earlier this year when debris from MH 370 washed ashore). French concern with freedom of the seas in Asia, then, should extend beyond concerns for its €54 billion of exports to the region.

French FONOPs in the South China Sea would, moreover, signal a renewed commitment to upholding the liberal international order, which has been under strain in Eastern Europe of late. If that order fails in one region, it fails everywhere. It’s about time America’s European partners recognize that.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Nov 2015 12:06

Devesh Sharma ‏@devesh_s_sharma 13h13 hours ago
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