Bharat Rakshak

Getting a hundred odd semiconductor engineers should not be all that difficult, given that a huge load of yindoos end up doing vlsi in massa or in india even. However, the thing that the govt doesn't seem to realise is that we ain't got no fab! Israel, Taiwan and of course unkil have many. But we don't. And our past record in building any capability in this area isn't any great shakes!

imho we atleast need a dedicated and improved fab for defence oriented processors and asics. the SCL is antiquated tech.

question is - does Khan have a hammerlock on such process equipment and 'levers' on other players like japan and taiwan to prevent sale of such equipment?

are we still under hidden sanctions on the nuclear and missile front ?

I think its time for GOI to make some loud noises via its media friends 'musing' about the value of strategic partnerships when we cant even import such equipment to fight the global war on terror and make telephones to talk nicely to the bakpaks.

some TV anchor should be primed to ask her "Can we fly out a team to AMAT
HQ and just reach in and buy what we need?...now that we are munna certified
onlee!"

bloomberg -

U.S., India expected to sign defense pact on Monday
Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:24am EDT

19 Jul 2009

By Arshad Mohammed

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - The United States and India are expected to sign an agreement on Monday that would take a major step toward allowing the sale of sophisticated U.S. arms to the South Asian nation, three senior U.S. officials said.

Known as an "end-use monitoring" agreement and required by U.S. law for such weapons sales, the pact would let Washington check that India was using any arms for the purposes intended and preventing the technology from leaking to others.

The deal would be a tangible accomplishment of Hillary Clinton's first trip to India as U.S. secretary of state and it could prove a boon to U.S. companies such as Lockheed Martin Corp and Boeing Co.

Both U.S. defense contractors are in the running to compete for India's plan to buy 126 multi-role fighters, which would be one of the largest arms deals in the world as India takes steps to modernize its largely Russian-made arsenal.

The two U.S. companies are competing with Russia's MiG-35, France's Dassault Rafale, Sweden's Saab KAS-39 Gripen and the Eurofighter Typhoon, made by a consortium of British, German, Italian and Spanish firms, for the contract.

The U.S. officials, who spoke on condition that they not be identified, said the defense agreement was not finalized as of late Sunday but that they expected it to go through in time for Clinton's signature on Monday.

"If we don't sign that, it will be a definite slap in the face," said a U.S. congressional aide ahead of Clinton's visit to New Delhi, where she will meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna on Monday.

Clinton's visit aims to deepen ties with India, a country whose economic power and political stability make it a natural U.S. ally, according to analysts, despite the long history of U.S.-Indian tensions during the Cold War, when Washington at times tilted toward India's rival Pakistan.

Singha wrote:question is - does Khan have a hammerlock on such process equipment and 'levers' on other players like japan and taiwan to prevent sale of such equipment?

No. The SemIndia and HSMC plans were made a while ago and such planning would not be possible if manufacturing equipment was embargoed.

The story with manufacturing semiconductors in India is one of long term government incompetence, nothing more.

Robert Noyce, the co-inventor of the integrated circuit and cofounder of Intel, had visited India in the sixties. "Mr Noyce spent fifteen days trying to convince the Indian Government to allow Intel to establish a chip company in India," reads a quote of Mr Vinod Dham cited in `Sand to Silicon' by Mr Shivanand Kanavi

Vera, Vina

I think you have overlooked the key exercise here: design. I for one, respect the GoI's stand. We need expertise here and now for the design aspect.
The point seems to be to have a framework where everything from the bottom to the top is "known".

Vera, you have a point though. Without identifying a market, it is difficult to sustain anything here.
I did raise a point similar to yours on this same thread - try to run a old design for the low-cost segment.

And no, the intention is not to compete with the established players. So manufacturing something with the 45nm or 32nm nodes is an absolute waste. 90nm should be the place to start.
And let there be no doubts about this: It is impossible to to try to master CMOS process this late.
See, the technology is complex. Key parts of a single transistor now have something like 100-200 electrons. And it is becoming more and more difficult to model its behaviour. So much so, that very very very few people reallyl understand what is going on.
It all boils down to trial and error and a wealth of experience and intelligent trade-offs.
What Intel and others are doing is something like this: Try to first figure out switching time for a transistor for the next generation architecture based on market needs. Once that is done, go back to the lab, use the last technology node design, and keep tweaking it continously until the target is reached. Keep tweaking further and ensure that it is stable and various temparature and Voltage corners ( Intel uses the most number of such corners I have heard) . Talk to the Lithography manufacturers that this is what they want to manufacture . Those guys run off and start using OPC (Optical Proximity correction ) and RET ( resolution enhancement techniques) to meet Intel's demand. ( As of 2008, we were using a 193nm wavelength light source to manufacure structures 45nm wide)
Overall cycle time 3-4 years to get the product out in mass numbers.



As Singha pointed out, the logical way forward is to gain some expertise first somewhere, and then start on a slew of products for different markets. Stay out of the technology part. We can always use Taiwan for that.

I see something like this being sensible:

OpenSparc arch. with 90nm. Costs max $30/piece. Tune Linux kernel to this. Optimization for server and Desktop use.
As for multimedia and misc support - that depends on how successful the venture is.
If adoption increases, all those graphic card, sound, video, USB device manufaturers will rush to have IDCs setup

Cisco Systems technology chief Padmasree Warrior addressing an audience in India in May, using Cisco's telepresence technology. Some companies are buying the high-end videoconferencing technology to cut travel costs.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124822555149270741.html
Cisco, H-P Square Off in Hunt for Revenue
Amid a Slowdown in Technology Spending, Telepresence Market Becomes a Battleground

Does anyone over here have any experience with consuming ASP.NET Web Services in client code where the unit of information transfer between client and Web Service methods are objects ?

If there is someone then I can elaborate on my problem more and hope some one can help me resolve it. Thanks in advance.

Thanks pandyan. Let me put forward some essential background information and then elaborate on my problem:

I have a client called CustomerSupport and a web service called CCardProcessor.

In the solution explorer window for both you will find a folder called Classes that contains .cs files with same class names and same class definitions.

In fact they are auto generated by xsd.exe from a Schema that details message exchange between CustomerSupport and CCardProcessor.

I have added a web reference for the web service to CustomerSupport and given it a name -- CCardWebService.

CCard and Customer are two classes amongst many others that are defined in the .cs files under the folder Classes. Both of them are present in the Solution explorer windows of CustomerSupport and CCardProcessor.

This implies same CCard is present in two forms namely CustomerSupport.CCard and CCardProcessor.CCard. Likewise for Customer, CustomerSupport.Customer and CCardProcessor.Customer.

Within the client code a web method of CCardProcessor is invoked that takes in a CCard object and after processing the request returns a Customer object.

In the asmx file in the web service the web method has following signature:

public Customer ProcessGetCardHolderInfoRequest(CCard req)
{
//do something
}

In the client code the proxy class is instantiated in the following way:

CCardWebService.Service1 cardService = new CCardWebService.Service1();

Note: Service1 is the name of class that contains all web methods for the web service in the asmx file. CCardWebService is the name of web reference.

In the client code [CustomerSupport], the function that contains the call to the above web method is:

private Customer SendGetCardHolderInfoRequest(CCard req)
{
Customer cust = new Customer();
cust = cardService.ProcessGetCardHolderInfoReq(req); //Error in this line
return cust;
}


However, Visual Studio gives an error saying that one cannot implicitly convert from type CustomerSupport.CCard to CustomerSupport.CCardWebService.CCard. I have commented where error is pointed out by VS 2005.

Even casting doesn't works.

When I add the web reference to my client code, the namespace CustomerSupport gets tagged in front of CCardWebService.CCard. The CLR thinks that CustomerSupport.CCard and CustomerSupport.CCardWebService.CCard are two different types even though the CCard is exactly same class just with namespace difference.

I don't know how to get around this problem. Any help will be appreciated.

Can you blame the CLR for thinking so?

1) Write a copy constructor, to copy data members across affected types. Cons? Obviously, inefficient.
2) Modify autogenerated proxy code. Remove the newly autogenerated (partial?) class definition and use the old, existing one. Cons? Maintenance nightmare. Will have to remember to do this everytime after you update web ref (which will trigger proxy code autogen.) Not a big deal if you don't forsee doing an update .. but lets be realistic here. Change happens.
3) svcUtil (WCF proxy generator tool) might take some arguments to stop generating code for types defined in an assembly.. you might want to check it out.

Sumeet wrote:The CLR thinks that CustomerSupport.CCard and CustomerSupport.CCardWebService.CCard are two different types even though the CCard is exactly same class just with namespace difference.

I don't know how to get around this problem. Any help will be appreciated.

The bolded part is the basics of any OO language. The class is identified by <NameSpace>.<ClassName>. You can't have the same class in different namespaces and expect the language to think they are identical.

If you surround your CCard class by its own namespace, then the namespace remains the same irrespective of where you include the files in.

namespace MyCCardNamespace
{
class CCard{}
}

Now, whichever projects you include this file in, both will have same qualified name.

Avoid including same class in multiple projects if possible. If you can, it is better to factor out the common code into a separate assembly and refer to it from both CustomerSupport and CCardProcessor projects.

Interesting article in Time Magazine:

Nokia Calling
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 07,00.html

samsung and lg are not sitting idle in migrating touch down to middle of market. samsung star (2g and 3g) models are already available for 10k. LG also has some I would expect.

intro'ing one or two models based around tired old symbian S60 intf wont do. they need to launch
a salvo like a whole new N-series but priced between 5-15K all with touch, photos , cameras,
music, a standard USB port, 2GB microSD default....the GUI had better be good. recycled N-series
wont do.

I cant believe Nokia is still persisting with S60.. that thing is so old in terms of mobile phones that it is not even funny. In the age when a lot of the mobiles are consumed by the 14 - 35 category, having that archaic interface is a sign that you either think that you can pull a fast one over consumers or you have no clue.

Nokia is losing market share left and right, and is going to get a major a** whupping soon.

I admit that Nokia's sound quality and reception are the best in class, but its interface is really bad. We all dont want to be Apple fanbois a la iPhone, but Nokia needs to learn from players like HTC (Touch Diamond anyone?) and of course, LG and Samsung. The latter's phone build quality is not that good nor is sound quality, but they look appealing and hip which is what matters to the 14 - 35 age group.

Personally I still use the E-series from Nokia. Very very well built phones... but again getting long in the tooth.

Tanaji wrote:I cant believe Nokia is still persisting with S60.. that thing is so old in terms of mobile phones that it is not even funny. In the age when a lot of the mobiles are consumed by the 14 - 35 category, having that archaic interface is a sign that you either think that you can pull a fast one over consumers or you have no clue.

Nokia is losing market share left and right, and is going to get a major a** whupping soon.

I admit that Nokia's sound quality and reception are the best in class, but its interface is really bad. We all dont want to be Apple fanbois a la iPhone, but Nokia needs to learn from players like HTC (Touch Diamond anyone?) and of course, LG and Samsung. The latter's phone build quality is not that good nor is sound quality, but they look appealing and hip which is what matters to the 14 - 35 age group.

Personally I still use the E-series from Nokia. Very very well built phones... but again getting long in the tooth.

Nokia phones are still great for basic phone functionality, the S60 is extremely efficient and can run on low-end hardware very well and the interface for phoning is quite intuitive.

The have problems big time when it comes to anything more advanced, like one expects from a modern phone. Most of their smartphones sell mainly because of some kind of nich form-factor/feature set or quite simply, because they are unlocked. In terms of running applications, availability of useable apps, web browsing, etc they are truly pathetic. Not to mention lack of basic things like standardized headsets/charger/data cable interface, USB charging, etc.

Attended a Oracle vendor presentation today. The bunch of arrogant a$$h@les harbour an illusion that they are God's gift to Telco vertical.

After we finished our portfolio presentations, the PYT leading the Oracle's sales team expressed surprised over the fact that we are "also" in telco vertical.

We had to educate her on the fact that we (i.e. our company) laid the first cable from London to Kolkata and majority of BSNL/MTNL exchanges run on our switches. That was the end of it.

SRoy wrote:Attended a Oracle vendor presentation today. The bunch of arrogant a$$h@les harbour an illusion that they are God's gift to Telco vertical.

After we finished our portfolio presentations, the PYT leading the Oracle's sales team expressed surprised over the fact that we are "also" in telco vertical.

We had to educate her on the fact that we (i.e. our company) laid the first cable from London to Kolkata and majority of BSNL/MTNL exchanges run on our switches. That was the end of it.

Lack of market knowledge is really embarrassing
Was the PYT desi

SRoy wrote: After we finished our portfolio presentations, the PYT leading the Oracle's sales team expressed surprised over the fact that we are "also" in telco vertical.

Well thats bad news for her and her team and good news for you and your team The days of "we are so big, we could care less" are over....they have been since 2 geeks in New Mexico thrashed IBM .

Singha wrote:samsung and lg are not sitting idle in migrating touch down to middle of market. samsung star (2g and 3g) models are already available for 10k. LG also has some I would expect.

Exactly! Thats why previously I had posted that Samsung and LG are the biggest threat to Nokia and not the antics of Apple/Android. However, when one looks carefully, none of the competitors have it all.

- Apple has a great services offering but only 1 high-priced device which thrives on exclusivity. Moreover, after the initial hype is wearing off, one hears grumbling about their nazi-like lockdown of functionalities and springing up of alternate app stores like Cydia.
- Google has no devices (hence no sure shot way to forcefully push its stuff to consumers without a big daddy device maker) and it still doesn't really have its act together yet though future may be different. Even their platform offering seems to have become more incoherent with launch of Chrome OS. If not done right, Android will go down the Windows Mobile lane.
- Samsung and LG have great devices across all ranges and are gaining device market share bigtime but don't have any services offerings.
- RIM have great devices but tied down to being perceived as a "businessman's phone" alongwith associated service offering. They are going to keep dominating the business segment but have to break out of the "businessman's phone" perception to make really large gains.

Devices are getting commoditized, it is services which will have to make money in the long term - coolness will go someways but in the end they will just be the means to an end i.e. getting people to subscribe to whatever services are being peddled.

So none of the companies have both the right ingredients - reach (# devices) and services offering.
Compared to these Nokia has both a large services offering and a massive supply of devices to push them on. However, it is not excelling at any of those at the moment - its almost like a Yahoo! where it is #2/#3 in everything #1 in nothing. What Nokia needs to do is have concentrated plans for pulling up its socks in both its devices and services units with much better coordination and less rivalry and turf battles.

S60 should be pushed down to lower-end and low-middle-range phones. Rest should switch to either Qt/Symbian or Qt/Maemo. Even Hildon/Maemo is ancient now (the UIs you see on Nokia internet tablets).

Forbes on Netzilla:
Cisco's Long, Rough Recovery

Cisco's fourth quarter results likely will offer some good news for the recession-bruised information technology giant: It seems to have hit the bottom of the beleaguered market for networking gear. The bad news? That bottom is a dark place, and Cisco may be there for awhile yet

Lets hope there is some good news there. What's the insider's view GD saar?

SRoy wrote:Attended a Oracle vendor presentation today. The bunch of arrogant a$$h@les harbour an illusion that they are God's gift to Telco vertical.

After we finished our portfolio presentations, the PYT leading the Oracle's sales team expressed surprised over the fact that we are "also" in telco vertical.

We had to educate her on the fact that we (i.e. our company) laid the first cable from London to Kolkata and majority of BSNL/MTNL exchanges run on our switches. That was the end of it.

Sorry, do not have the background...who is 'we' ie. the company above?

I thought BSNL/MTNL used E/// for their switches? Or are you referring to data switches?

Tanaji wrote:I thought BSNL/MTNL used E/// for their switches? Or are you referring to data switches?

Yep. Exxx.

Raja Bose wrote: Well thats bad news for her and her team and good news for you and your team The days of "we are so big, we could care less" are over....they have been since 2 geeks in New Mexico thrashed IBM .

Acharya wrote:

SRoy wrote:Attended a Oracle vendor presentation today. The bunch of arrogant a$$h@les harbour an illusion that they are God's gift to Telco vertical.

After we finished our portfolio presentations, the PYT leading the Oracle's sales team expressed surprised over the fact that we are "also" in telco vertical.

We had to educate her on the fact that we (i.e. our company) laid the first cable from London to Kolkata and majority of BSNL/MTNL exchanges run on our switches. That was the end of it.

Lack of market knowledge is really embarrassing
Was the PYT desi

Yep a desi PYT.

Ignorance apart, what surprises me is the fact that the trend of claiming expertise by like of Oracle and IBM in a vertical XYZ after buying out few companies.

rumor is netz might yet hand out a bonus albeit less than usual. some promotions too lately to those who proved loyalty 24x7.

imo Nokia should cut down its handset portfolio by 50%. a lot are wierd phones that nobody buys but just confuse the picture. a portfolio of around 25 high quality models from top to bottom should be enough.

just the N-series has more models than I have hair on my butt.

Ravi and Ganesh,

I have solved the problem. Will give you more info later when I have time to spare. Thanks again though.

Singha wrote:rumor is netz might yet hand out a bonus albeit less than usual. some promotions too lately to those who proved loyalty 24x7.

imo Nokia should cut down its handset portfolio by 50%. a lot are wierd phones that nobody buys but just confuse the picture. a portfolio of around 25 high quality models from top to bottom should be enough.

Quite some cos here incld. mine are giving half-yearly bonuses (less than during their heydays but not a bad chunk o' cash) - ofcourse moi has evil plan to thrive on rewards from patents and publications - a couple a year is equivalent to 6 months bonus

Singha wrote: just the N-series has more models than I have hair on my butt.

yeah....but does each of your butt hair come with a pinhole 5MP camera?

onlee safety is being lucky + being in healthy co. patent awards and other rewards can be summarily cut as nortel cut pensions for its staff.

I wouldnt count on that as a retirement plan

Singha wrote:onlee safety is being lucky + being in healthy co. patent awards and other rewards can be summarily cut as nortel cut pensions for its staff.

I wouldnt count on that as a retirement plan

True very true...all this little-here-little-there accumulation of coins is to be like a Paki who spits on the USMC APCs and try to squeeze/beg every little penny out of the blood suckers coz one never knows when GUBO will turn into a Nuke Bum hence, better to get shaheedized with some khota sikkas instead of hot air of "gratitude for service"

Current working generation in Amirkhan won't have any retirement plan...they will work till they drop dead. Only chance is to build respectable retirement assets in India - that at least is on track esp. since both GHQ and I sorta have a plan on when to R2I in future (subject to actual execution and lack of tactical brilliance ofcourse ).

mid level sergeant majors and NCOs got around 12% per latest calculashuns. not bad. should pay for bideshi trip, ipod touch and tamiflu tablets

Singha wrote:mid level sergeant majors and NCOs got around 12% per latest calculashuns. not bad. should pay for bideshi trip, ipod touch and tamiflu tablets

Wow and this % is middle of the road folks or only for Special forces type motivated folks ? Also is that only for India or WW?
That is an eye opener having been brought up on the cool aid dished out at work...
Quote "401k match is discreationary only - layoffs can not be eliminated. Be happy you have a job etc etc "
We have been told we have a small bonus set aside (que applause at the Rah rah gatherings of the "herd") but knowing the ways of the great one now the raises will get correspondly minuscle.. 2-4 % even for top ranked mujahids.

Singha wrote:mid level sergeant majors and NCOs got around 12% per latest calculashuns. not bad. should pay for bideshi trip, ipod touch and tamiflu tablets

That number is about right here too. What was the normal bonus% in good times in Indian ITvity scene? Better to stock up on the loose cash rather than spend on iCrap, Bideshi jaunts and associated swine-related ailments .

juniors target % was lower to start with, so they'd end up with < 10%.
worldwide its same target % and formula.
folks in the exec suite have a different plan. no prizes for guessing the risk and reward is a lot higher there.
sales side dont care for such bonus - they get commision plan.

Thanks sounds like a pretty standard % and not based too much on performance + profit sharing as they are doing here at hickory pork.. Of course everything is discretionary so we shall see ...
Here Mgmt is proving to be ruthless and the culling goes on unabated.. The troops are gradually waking up to the reality of this being a part of the new culture now regardless of the economy ...
On an internal blog maintained by one brave EVP (a desi btw) the bleating from the rank and file is continous..
But the company values have changed - inevitable with so much outside blood - and people are now realizing this is here to stay

the big chimps formula does have factors like target for each grade , co perf, cust satis, annual review...if all factors are 1.0 you get the target, but it never is all 1.0, some are less , some are more.

Bizweek article on Mahindra Satyam:

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... 178412.htm

Microsoft and Nokia's New Symbiotic Relationship
http://www.cnbc.com/id/32386786

Some heavy lifting behind the scenes between the giants - try to move from has-beens to cool again.

Raja Bose wrote:Microsoft and Nokia's New Symbiotic Relationship
http://www.cnbc.com/id/32386786

Some heavy lifting behind the scenes between the giants - try to move from has-beens to cool again.

Hakim saheb, you may remember that during the darkest days of 2008, there were heavy rumours of a possible MS takeover bid for RIM. Analysts were going gaga over the 'possibilities', 'synergies' and value etc that a deal like that would offer. May be this was MS' Plan-B?

Did you get to hear any juicy bits in Massa tech circles about any such linkups?

Edit: Here's one such article from Oct 2K8:
Plunge in RIM's shares could attract takeover bid

^^^ From NOK side, it is hedging its bets. From MSFT side it is plan-B to still move into the mobile pie (by concentrating on apps (perhaps later services) and piggybacking on someone who has the volumes and also owns the OS) given that WinMo is almost a goner now. Again if not done properly, it will go the same way as so many other "synergistic" collaborations.

Raja Bose wrote:^^^ From NOK side, it is hedging its bets. From MSFT side it is plan-B to still move into the mobile pie (by concentrating on apps (perhaps later services) and piggybacking on someone who has the volumes and also owns the OS) given that WinMo is almost a goner now. Again if not done properly, it will go the same way as so many other "synergistic" collaborations.

Your post gives me some new ideas Hakim Saheb. Could this be a sort of an Emerging Markets play by MSFT?
You have very rightly pointed out that they are betting on apps here, not services. NOK still rules the roost in emerging mkts like India, where iPhone and BlackBerry are yet to set the sales charts on fire. And given the fact that consumers in countries like India are yet to warm up to the idea of paying for some of these fancy 'services' that these cos tout, this gamble might just payoff.

For e.g. the already decent E-Series lineup will get a definite boost with office apps.