India-China News and Discussion

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by cheng »

Katare wrote:In 62 they have attacked, won and occupied NE and than gave it back to India. The million dollar question is why would they attack, try to win and hold on to that area now when they didn't/couldn't do that In 62?

Obviously it would be a lot more difficult for China to forcibly occupy Arunachal Pradesh now, than it was in 1962.

What changes?

What is the motive?
1. Till 62 India had nibbled Chinese land for years, that's why a war came after.
2. Chinese military withdrew in 62, because they're so stupid (they viewed India as brother and 'comrade' at that time to fight imperialism) that believed India and China could make an agreement to settle the land dispute.
--it's my opinion.

Username changed to cheng.
Rahul.
Last edited by Rahul M on 19 Oct 2009 20:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: username changed.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by gandharva »

2. Chinese military withdrew in 62, because they're so stupid (they viewed India as brother and 'comrade' at that time to fight imperialism) that believed India and China could make an agreement to settle the land dispute
Because Cuba missile crisis was over and US was free to kick the China's a$$.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Suppiah »

gandharva wrote:
2. Chinese military withdrew in 62, because they're so stupid (they viewed India as brother and 'comrade' at that time to fight imperialism) that believed India and China could make an agreement to settle the land dispute
Because Cuba missile crisis was over and US was free to kick the China's a$$.
Also because it is much harder to hold territory in a hostile area unlike hit-and-run tactics as the Americans are learning now. The chinese wrote the book on it a few millenia ago
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by animesharma »

gandharva wrote:
2. Chinese military withdrew in 62, because they're so stupid ... that believed India and China could make an agreement to settle the land dispute
Because Cuba missile crisis was over and US was free to kick the China's a$$.
Or may be winter was almost there and they couldn't keep up their supply line to arunachal as of hostile terrains.... so it was considered wise to back off.

Cuba missile crisis was the reason they went ahead with the attack.
1. Till 62 India had nibbled Chinese land for years, that's why a war came after.
which Chinese land. Please comment with ref. to border status of pre-62 time.
Incursion are unavoidable in such geographies, where you really don't know where the line is. It happened in 60's and its happening today.
Chinese(they viewed India as brother and 'comrade' at that time to fight imperialism)
Indeed Chinese has positive approach to start with. But both failed to find a common ground, partly because chinese failed to understand how India works.
remember, if a nation like india is blessed with prosperity and power at this moment, it will crash as it is yet not ready/mature to deal with it. Why do we forget, as a nation we are still young,unlike china. Try to look whole nation as an individual, and you will get my point.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by harbans »

1. Till 62 India had nibbled Chinese land for years, that's why a war came after.

Firstly Tibet is not Chinese territory. Secondly it's apparent India could'nt 'nibble' any territory simply because even till today Indian soldiers have to trek to most of forward positions in the indo-Tibetan border. Chinese were building roads and infrastructure right upto the border at that time even in 1962. So this was just PRC propaganda. 270 Chinese incursions this year alone due to aggressive Chinese patrolling on the border and the PRC propaganda goons are saying India is being aggressive? :roll:

Indeed Chinese has positive approach to start with.

How? They rolled over Tibet 1952 and created a massive refugee crises in India. You call that a positive approach?? :shock:
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Tx Ghandarva for that insightful article.However,some of the author's conclusions are debatable.There is still a strong residue in the corridors of power in Delhi that value the foreign policy framework laid down by Pandit Nehru.Despite Dr.Singh's visible tilt towards the US in every sphere,the US keeps on irritating India when it rewards rent-boy Pak with new F-16s,billions in aid despite Pak's abuse of such assistance.That the Indian establishment is attempting to gain as much from the US as it can is also a fact.How deep the relationship will develop depends upon the US's attitude towards Pak and its "conditional" EUM arms sales to India,which is unacceptable to the Indian armed forces.

China is now trying to get Russia worried about India's future ICBM! The venality of the dragon knows no bounds and shame either.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 132024.cms
'Worried' China says Agni V can reach Russian border
Saibal Dasgupta , TNN 16 October 2009, 06:58pm IST
Print Email Discuss Bookmark/Share Save Comment Text Size: |

BEIJING: It is only the other day that China showed off its DongFeng 31A intercontinental ballistic missile, which has a range of 11,000 km capable
of hitting targets in the United States. It was a major decision to display this missile for military experts around the world to watch and behold.

Within a fortnight of displaying its power during the celebration for the 60th anniversary of the Chinese republic on October 1, a section of the country’s Communist Party appears worried about India’s decision to produce the Agni V missile.

The party’s organ, People’s Daily has run a report saying Agni V is similar to DongFeng 31A and capable of hitting Harbin in northern China, which is close to the Russian border. It is not clear why the paper chose to compare Agni V with its 5,000 kms range with DongFeng 31A, which has a much longer range and has already been tested.

Agni V with its 5000 km range can hit several areas of China. But the People’s Daily specifically mentioned Harbin at a time when Russian prime minister Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was visiting Beijing to attend the meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation.

It must be understood that sensitive reports published in the People’s Daily are cleared by senior party officials.

The report has been simultaneously published in several newspapers across the country.

The paper noted that Agni-5 is highly road-mobile, and Harbin can come within its striking range if the missile is moved to northeast India.

It said Agni-5 can “can reach every continent except North and South America”. DongFeng 31A is capable of hitting the American continent as well.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Nihat »

In 62 they have attacked, won and occupied NE and than gave it back to India. The million dollar question is why would they attack, try to win and hold on to that area now when they didn't/couldn't do that In 62?

Obviously it would be a lot more difficult for China to forcibly occupy Arunachal Pradesh now, than it was in 1962.

What changes?

What is the motive?


Logistics and Supply Lines
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Suppiah »

I am not a scholar on this matter of course, but having read a variety of articles etc., in non-stalinist media, I think there is some credence to this 'Nehru bungled and screwed up the situation theory'. If this story is true, he not only underestimated the situation but also provoked the dragon needlessly and failed in many other ways. More damaging is the (possible) fact that he refused a reasonable settlement when it was offered. Perhaps because he was stung by the events which some say even killed him. End of day he was a patriot which you cannot say of some of his dynasty members.

Unfortunately, truth cannot come out until that dynasty holds the rein of power. It would indeed be sad if Indo-PRC relations are suffering because of this historical baggage. Even someone like PVNR would have declassified records but with MMS that is impossible. ABV would have repaired it had he been given another 5 years...today we are slaves of our own rhetoric and past.

PRC is also bungling big time, not acting like a superpower it wants to be, that is another story...
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

Why do we forget, as a nation we are still young,unlike china.

please read any book on chinese history. they have done a nice job of sugar coating
their history under official 'guidance' since ancient times to inflate the timelines of strong dynasties like tang, song, han and squeeze the long periods when it was just a bunch of warring states.

they have also done a nice job of whitewashing everything under "oh we are a
homogenous Han people onlee since time immemorial" - the northern Han lived
under turko-mongol boots for a long long time. the southern han have a
different history. people of yunnan are not han. neither is tibet or xinjiang. there
were other ethnic peoples like "Rong" and "Di" who were cowed down.

john keay estimates over 3000 yrs, the time when 'core' china provinces (it did not include tibet which was a strong empire of its own) was under a strong centralized rule as 25%.

this is not anything different from other parallel civilizations. there is nothing unique about chinese history like some uber sun-tzu gene that guarantees a iron fisted centralized rule over 1000s of years.

they are as young or as old as we are. they are not 'elder brothers' and 'further down the road to moksha' to look up to. infact most of their activities are best avoided - like forced resettlement of lakhs to occupy newly conquered states,
forced conscription for imperial projects like waging war on the frontier states or building tombs in the lakhs, collective punishments, keeping 1000s of concubines by deflowering young women, keeping a army of castrated eunuchs whose stock was replenished by slave raiding expeditions to fujian and guangdong....we seldom find these things on a grand scale in indian history.
Last edited by Singha on 19 Oct 2009 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

China projects Kashmir as a separate country

Mon, Oct 19 02:30 PM

Kathmandu, Oct 19 (IANS) Besides issuing separate visas to Indian passport holders from Jammu and Kashmir, China is also projecting the disputed territory as an independent country in other ways.

Visitors to Tibet, especially journalists invited by the Chinese government, are given handouts where Kashmir is indicated as a country separate from India.

Media kits providing 'basic information' about Tibet - which China attacked and annexed in the 1950s - says Tibet 'borders with India, Nepal, Myanmar and Kashmir area'.

Except the 'Kashmir area', the other three are sovereign countries.

Maps too, available in China, Myanmar and Nepal, show an India denuded of Kashmir.

Also, China's policy of extending assistance to only the government of a country indicates it considers India's nuclear rival and neighbour Pakistan to be in control of Pakistan-administered Kashmir by offering financial assistance to build a dam on the Indus river there.

China, now locked in a row with India, is also asking for the tightening of the open border between India and Nepal that, it says, is abetting anti-China activities and demonstrations by Tibetans crossing into Nepal from India.

Beijing is also indirectly asking for the closure of the seat of the Dalai Lama, the exiled leader of the Tibetans, in Dharamshala in India, hinting that such a step would improve India-China relations.

China, which fought a war with India in 1962, says Arunachal Pradesh belongs to it. India says it is an integral and inalienable part of India.

On the eve of the Dalai Lama's visit to Arunachal Pradesh in November, China has been hurrying Nepal to deploy armed security forces along the border between northern Nepal and Tibet.

Both Nepal's Home Minister Bhim Rawal and Prime Minister Madhav Kumar Nepal recently visited Mustang, the northernmost district in Nepal to assess the security plan.

Mustang was once both part of an ancient Tibetan kingdom and later the base of anti-China guerrilla attacks by Tibet's Khampa warriors.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

see the reader comments. I have taken the chance to slap the three drones who showed up before me.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... 413243.htm
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by AdityaM »

[quote="Philip"]
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 132024.cms
[quote]'Worried' China says Agni V can reach Russian border
Within a fortnight of displaying its power during the celebration for the 60th anniversary of the Chinese republic on October 1, a section of the country’s Communist Party appears worried about India’s decision to produce the Agni V missile.
[/quote][/quote]


Is one to believe that china is getting jitters from a yet to be produced/tested/operationalised missile?
To me it looks like a wrong reading of the scenario, so typical of our DDMs and policy experts of MEA.

From what i can figure, it looks like China is preparing its populace so that they can be tutored/geared/brain-washed to believe that India is a threat that needs to be dealt with firmly.
Unlike in our case, where even a missile test brings out the doubters asking - why now, what for, what our friendly neighbours will think etc.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Kanson »

AdityaM wrote:
'Worried' China says Agni V can reach Russian border
Within a fortnight of displaying its power during the celebration for the 60th anniversary of the Chinese republic on October 1, a section of the country’s Communist Party appears worried about India’s decision to produce the Agni V missile.
Is one to believe that china is getting jitters from a yet to be produced/tested/operationalised missile?
To me it looks like a wrong reading of the scenario, so typical of our DDMs and policy experts of MEA.

From what i can figure, it looks like China is preparing its populace so that they can be tutored/geared/brain-washed to believe that India is a threat that needs to be dealt with firmly.
Unlike in our case, where even a missile test brings out the doubters asking - why now, what for, what our friendly neighbours will think etc.
If the development of DF-21C Anti-Ship ballistic missile can give jitters to US why the development of Agni-5 be considered as a mere another event for the Chinese ?
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by AdityaM »

^ In a tightly controlled media like chinas, such dissemination of info can only serve one purpose- arousing public opinion as desired by the controllers.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by animesharma »

Singha wrote:

they are as young or as old as we are. they are not 'elder brothers' and 'further down the road to moksha' to look up to. infact most of their activities are best avoided - like forced resettlement of lakhs to occupy newly conquered states,
forced conscription for imperial projects like waging war on the frontier states or building tombs in the lakhs, collective punishments, keeping 1000s of concubines by deflowering young women, keeping a army of castrated eunuchs whose stock was replenished by slave raiding expeditions to fujian and guangdong....we seldom find these things on a grand scale in indian history.

Sir,I am extremely sorry if i didn't make myself clear.You are talking about a different era of bharat,(classical age) i am talking about India.
My assumptions are relevant for post imperial age, where people live as nation not kingdom.
Avg age of Chinese citizen is 32 years old, while for India it is 25.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by pgbhat »

Singha wrote:see the reader comments. I have taken the chance to slap the three drones who showed up before me.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... 413243.htm
wisepanda eh. :lol:
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

animesharma? uh-huh?
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Karan Dixit »

Lalmohan wrote:animesharma? uh-huh?
It is a Chinese drone. They cannot even fake an Indian name. Shame!

For all the Chinese lurkers cum drone:
There is no such name as Anime.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by negi »

LOL I guess the place was visited by the "usual suspects" :mrgreen: :twisted: .Nice job.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by animesharma »

Karan Dixit wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:animesharma? uh-huh?
It is a Chinese drone. They cannot even fake an Indian name. Shame!

For all the Chinese lurkers cum drone:
There is no such name as Anime.
:D actually, the name is "sharma, animesh sharma".
Its really pity for me, other forums attack on my nationality, and my own desi forum attacks on my identity. It can't get better.
This was not expected from BR. :-?
I wil not defend myself, because the discussion is not what i signed in for.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Hari Seldon »

animesh ji,

Some chini drones misuse your name on a third party forum and you get upset with BRF about it? Couldn't follow your logic there.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Many have not understood why China is making all this "screeching" as I've called it.If China acts against India in any way,it must first build up an anti-Indian atmosphere at home,so that when the moment arrives,we will witness massive demos at Tian-Men-Square,etc.This will be used to hoodwink the population that the entire country is behind China's aggressive actions.The PRC is exceptionally sensitive to any anti-establishment demos and requires such a build up of anti-enemy feeling as insurance against any anti-state backlash and to project to the world that the Chinese nation is united 100% with the leadership.Therefore,we are witnessing the prologue to China's gameplan in the Indian subcontinent.

China's extremely provocative remarks about AP.Kashmir,chit visas for Kashmiris,the PM and Dalai Lama visiting AP,etc.,are all meant to raise the temperature here in India,so that a similar raising of temperature can be achieved in China itself.For a couple of decades now the border has been relatively quiet,except for the Chinese relentlessly building up their infrastructure, waiting patiently for the opportune moment,one of which is today as mentioned in my earlier posts.The latest statement on Kashmir as another "nation" is a slap in the face of India and the GOI must similarly pay China back in the same coin regarding the status of both Tibet and Taiwan.Another round of Nuke and missile tests at this juncture would be most welcome and put the dragon in its place.The fact that this latest statement comes before the two FMs and PMs meet shortly is highly offensive and provocative.China only understands force and the GOI must make some very quick decisions at remedying the logjam in the MOD's decision making apparatus which is putting the armed forces at a disadvantage against China.The Sino-Pak diplomatic and military confabulations indicate that there is a synchronised gameplan to be put into action in the near future.The "good Taliban"s" handiwork in Pak might've set that timetable back a bit as Pak struggles to get to grips with its own deteriorating situ.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by animesharma »

Hari Seldon wrote:animesh ji,

Some chini drones misuse your name on a third party forum .
I am not aware of it.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by csharma »

K Subrahmanyam on the "Chinese Challenge".

http://www.maritimeindia.org/pdfs/KS_18Oct09.pdf
The Chinese challenge has to be faced economically,
politically and militarily. The challenge India faces is not in terms of a rivalry with China in the immediate
future. India must recognize that in economic and military terms, China is so far ahead of India that talk of
rivalry in the next three decades is meaningless. The challenge India has to face is China’s attempt to slow
down India’s growth and keep India off balance militarily in the near future so that India will not emerge as a
rival, over the longer term.
.
The rise of China as an untethered hegemonic power is not favoured by US, Russia, Japan or the European
Union. Only Russia sells military equipment to China while other major powers do not. On the other hand all
major powers are eager to sell military equipment to India. India is already the largest market for military sales
for Russia. Furthermore, Moscow has been willing to help India to construct a nuclear submarine and lease to
India nuclear submarines. There is an agreement between India and Russia to develop the fifth generation
fighter aircraft. The US is keen to sell India its frontline fighter aircraft and make India one of its major arms
markets. Part of China’s pressure on India is attributable to the fact that in terms of military capability, China
is far ahead of India in quantitative and in certain areas even in qualitative terms. This imbalance can be
rectified by India going in for large acquisitions of sophisticated US equipment that are likely to be available
and thereby gain a technological edge over China.
Admiral Mehta's comments about not matching China weapon for weapon was interpreted as a need to buy high tech US arms. KS is openly stating that.
While China may consider India as a rival and attempt to slow down India’s growth, India has no ambition of
catching up with China in the next three decades. That is not possible except under very exceptional
circumstances such as an internal collapse. However China is ageing and because of the one child policy of
Mao Dze Dung, in the next three decades the PRC will develop a demographic profile in which a significantly
higher proportion of its population of aged will have to be supported by a smaller proportion of population of
working age .China’s growth rate will dip at a time when India will have a much higher percentage of
population of working age ..
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Juggi G »

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Siddhartha »

Philip wrote:The latest statement on Kashmir as another "nation" is a slap in the face of India and the GOI must similarly pay China back in the same coin regarding the status of both Tibet and Taiwan.Another round of Nuke and missile tests at this juncture would be most welcome and put the dragon in its place.
Lets start circulating a map of chinki's in BR showing Xingxiang, Tibbet and Taiwan as separate nations. I think that wont go unnoticed by our chinki bros..
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Arihant »

animesharma wrote:
Singha wrote:

they are as young or as old as we are. they are not 'elder brothers' and 'further down the road to moksha' to look up to. infact most of their activities are best avoided - like forced resettlement of lakhs to occupy newly conquered states,
forced conscription for imperial projects like waging war on the frontier states or building tombs in the lakhs, collective punishments, keeping 1000s of concubines by deflowering young women, keeping a army of castrated eunuchs whose stock was replenished by slave raiding expeditions to fujian and guangdong....we seldom find these things on a grand scale in indian history.

Sir,I am extremely sorry if i didn't make myself clear.You are talking about a different era of bharat,(classical age) i am talking about India.
My assumptions are relevant for post imperial age, where people live as nation not kingdom.
Avg age of Chinese citizen is 32 years old, while for India it is 25.

animesharma: By your accounting China is 2 years younger - having come into being in 1949. As many of us on this forum know, India, as a "post-imperial" nation (whatever that might mean) has been in business since 1947. Or were you referring to the Republic of China, currently the nation of Taiwan, established in 1912?
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

What are the "sophisticated US arms" that can restore the "imbalance" between China and us? Can KS spell out these systems please? iIn fact,what India needs is larger numbers of cheaper eqpt. to match China's numerical superiority.If there are certain force multipliers these would be the main items that we would need and let's see who is willing to give them to India.

1.SSBNs and nuclear sub tech for our strategic deterrent.Russia has given us the same.The US will NEVER give us anything so sensitive.In conventional sub tech.the US has none to offer at all! France,Germany and Russia have been roped in by the IN over the years to give us the same.

2.Ballistic missile tech.No chance here of any from the US.Russia has given us 300km Brahmos,constrained as they are by the MTCR.However,Brahmos is best in its class and when the hyeprsonic version comes along will be almost indefensible.

3.AWACS.Here Russia (platform) and Israel (radar) have combined to give us this essential weapon system,a real foce multiplier.The US has only offered us a inferior much smaller turbo-prop Hawkeye platform.

4.5th-gen fighter tech.Russia is collaborating with us in a JV,while the US has not offered us even the JSF,let alone the F-22 Raptor.What it has offered is a 3 decade old F-16,which Pak operates,after us buying about 200 of it by 2915+,it will then be willing to sell us the JSF,which by then all its allies would've had for some time! As for AESA radar TOT,the US has still not confirmed the sale and TOT for the same for the MMRCA deal.Russia and the Europeans have offered us their versions.

4.Carrier tech.Russia,Italy and France have give us tech for the same,aprt from the UK with sales of old carriers in the past.The US has offered us nothing at all,except for a 30+ yr. old rust-bucket LPD (ex-Trenton) which killed several of the crew in an accident last year.

5.Naval tech.Pak has been supplied with harpoon missiles a long time ago,P-3 ASW Orions too.The only meaningful offer has been the P-8I,which is being developed and will arrive in a couple of years time.Aegis has been offered but which version? The idea is to integrate the In's warships with the USN for cooperative engagement,where US warships can take over command of IN warships through AEGIS.

5.MBT tech.Nothing offered at all.Russia has provided T-72 1nd T-90 tanks and their local production (IFVs too).Russia has also offered us an FMBT design for the future.The US ha snot even offered us the Humvee!

6.Space tech.Only Russia gave us the cryogenic engines despite the sanction regime after P-2,which crippled the LCA project for years.

It is quite clear from all these examples,by no means a complete list,that India has benefited more from non-US suppliers in the past than as of now,when empty rhetoric and noise supplant real serious diplomacy.and examples that KS is talking through his turban when he calls for "sophisticated US tech" for India! Just look across the border and see what chaos has been created by the US which supplied Pak with the same.Neither has it been offered to us and even if suitable will in all probability come in at very exorbitant prices.

PS:Sorry,Sridhar,will do shortly.
Last edited by Philip on 20 Oct 2009 18:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by SSridhar »

Philip, that was a good post but totally unrelated to this thread. Will you please move it to where it should belong ?
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by harbans »

Asked if India needs to play the "Tibet [ Images ] card", Venkateswaran said, "It is too late to do such a thing, after Prime Ministers P V Narasimha Rao and Rajiv Gandhi [ Images ] had said in joint statements with Beijing that Tibet is an integral part of China. "However, we can legitimately question the ruthless use of force recently against the Tibetans and against the Uighurs in Sinkiang. After all China keeps advising India on our relations with Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal etc., etc," he said.
From the 'India should be less submissive' article. I find it hard to believe that people think that we cannot play that card, when it's the only relevant card to play that makes sense, specially with China diverting Brahmaputra waters, demanding AP, Bhutan, Sikkim etc. Whats there to think we can never go back on that. That was Rajiv Gandhi or Nehru who accommodated it, not the country or it's people. Everyone knows that some PMs with an eye on the Nobel or with Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai attitudes have committed hara kiri and blunders taking decisions behind closed doors that don't have sanction of the Indian people.

When will our babu's and admins have spunk and call a spade a spade, and be able to see clearly that we can never even tickle them by mentioning human rights in Tibet let alone stop them claiming AP, Bhutan, Sikkim and needling India all over the border. This is becoming a wimp of a country run by wimps. And the tragedy is that the ex sec thinks his solution is not 'being submissive'.
Masaru
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Masaru »

The rise of China as an untethered hegemonic power is not favoured by US, Russia, Japan or the European
Union. Only Russia sells military equipment to China while other major powers do not. On the other hand all
major powers are eager to sell military equipment to India. India is already the largest market for military sales
for Russia.
Furthermore, Moscow has been willing to help India to construct a nuclear submarine and lease to
India nuclear submarines. There is an agreement between India and Russia to develop the fifth generation
fighter aircraft. The US is keen to sell India its frontline fighter aircraft and make India one of its major arms
markets. Part of China’s pressure on India is attributable to the fact that in terms of military capability, China
is far ahead of India in quantitative and in certain areas even in qualitative terms. This imbalance can be
rectified by India going in for large acquisitions of sophisticated US equipment that are likely to be available
and thereby gain a technological edge over China.
Nobody sells weapons to US, France, and Russia too!

The logic behind the above statement just illustrates mindset of the so-called strategic thinkers. Has any nation ever in the history became a power that commands respect by buying weapons from foreign countries? The chinese are more or less self sufficient in most of their weapon needs, that is a sign of industrial and economic progress that they have achieved. India buying even basic guns, shoes, coffins from around the world is a sign of the poor state of its industrial complex. It is quite pathetic that a putative world power runs to small country like Israel in the middle of a limited war to replenish stocks of basic artillery; and so-called 'strategic experts' paint it as positive sign!
svinayak
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by svinayak »

Masaru wrote: Has any nation ever in the history became a power that commands respect by buying weapons from foreign countries? The chinese are more or less self sufficient in most of their weapon needs, that is a sign of industrial and economic progress that they have achieved. India buying even basic guns, shoes, coffins from around the world is a sign of the poor state of its industrial complex. It is quite pathetic that a putative world power runs to small country like Israel in the middle of a limited war to replenish stocks of basic artillery; and so-called 'strategic experts' paint it as positive sign!
Indian ruling class for over 3-4 decades seems to be dependent on outside sources. It looks more of that generation unable to look at the larger picture of India being self sufficient.
kshirin
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by kshirin »

One MOD person was saying they are fed up with attitude of army brass just picking off foreign weapons off shelves instead of focusing on building them in India. One cannot say who is at fault, when there is a war you do need the best you can lay your hands on, but that is no excuse for not building up your own arms industry. That is why perhaps RM is focusing on defence offsets.
China saying it is too passive in our neighourhood, Alice in Wonderland perspective.

http://opinion.globaltimes.cn/editorial ... 78296.html

China should act as regional stabilizer :rotfl:

Source: Global Times [01:11 October 20 2009] Comments China's neighboring countries, with several exceptions, do not enjoy economic and political stability.

The areas surrounding China are troubled by complicated religious and ethnic conflicts. Some of the regions bordering China are home to terrorist organizations and zones of dense nuclear weapons deployment.
Territorial disputes constantly upset bilateral relations among China and its neighbors, while rivalries between the bigger countries threaten to trouble the fragile balance of power. The situation has worsened recently.
The Pakistani government can barely handle resurgent Taliban forces; fighting there has forced 100,000 Pakistanis to flee their homes.
In Iran, a suicide bomber killed dozens of high-level military officials Sunday near the border with Pakistan. And in North Korea and Afghanistan, forward momentum has stalled, leaving the future uncertain.
China can and should exert more influence in all of these countries, but has not. Its involvement with its neighbors has been limited to passively providing aid, receiving refugees, and maintaining order along border areas.
Such reservation has cost China dearly. It is losing the initiative in maintaining order within its neighbors.
Regional instability has caused problems on its own soil, as exemplified by the Xinjiang riots in July.
Ironically, China's hands-off approach has not convinced the world of its desire for peaceful development. The perception of China as a military threat remains.
After the Cold War, China ended long hostility with some of its neighbors, creating a favorable environment for the country's fast economic growth in the following years.
The situation now calls for more active involvement. Watching neighbors slip into worsening trouble and doing nothing does not fit with China's economic power, and will create a perilous situation when troubled neighbors ask for assistance elsewhere.
The responsibility of a regional power includes acting as a stabilizing force. China can exert influence with a combination of political, military and economic action, using both soft and hard power.
But the country is ill-prepared to take on this new role, in terms of its media, academia and diplomacy.
There is an urgent need for a public debate on China's strategy regarding surrounding areas and how it can better help stabilize neighboring countries.
Chinese scholars are talking about a period of strategic opportunity. They maintain that this hard-earned time of peace, crucial to China's development, should not be disrupted by mischief. Such peace cannot be created by others: It requires China's own active efforts.
RayC
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by RayC »

The country that will be most affected by the diversion of the Bhrahamaputra is Bangaldesh!

What are they saying of the scheme?
animesharma
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by animesharma »

Arihant wrote:
animesharma: By your accounting China is 2 years younger - having come into being in 1949. As many of us on this forum know, India, as a "post-imperial" nation (whatever that might mean) has been in business since 1947. Or were you referring to the Republic of China, currently the nation of Taiwan, established in 1912?
Sir ,i was referring to average age of individual citizens.

also in news:
China hopes for ‘extensive’ talks with India, plays down tensions
Lalmohan
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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

RayC wrote:The country that will be most affected by the diversion of the Bhrahamaputra is Bangaldesh!

What are they saying of the scheme?
what's there to say? all they can do is buy more lifevests with the money china is sending them... that is before they start migrating to india and burma in their millions as the sea levels rise and rivers burst their banks in say... 30 years?
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