Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

saip · Post by **saip** » 25 Apr 2011 09:34

This is from xerox khan

historically we fooled ourselves by referring to the disgraceful and humiliating defeats of 1965, 1971 and Kargil as glorious victories.

http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... 3520&Cat=9

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Apr 2011 09:38

Not too bad an analysis by Ahmed Rashid.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 25 Apr 2011 10:08

Predators and Reapers —Shahzad Chaudhry

This DT article has some interesting insights.

1.The CIA conducts this war on two fronts within Pakistan. It uses drones to target suspected militants from the air. The CIA is also not concerned if anti-Americanism is reinforced because of the drone policy, or if this relentless campaign causes Pakistani society to fracture as a consequence. The CIA also plays the other plank of having unleashed their special agents and contract spies — like Raymond Davis — to pursue the other part of their war in Pakistan. Questions are being asked of illicit relations between such agents and the Punjab-based militant groups and the increasing incidence of bomb blasts in Punjab and other centres, seeking hidden motives characterising these as the CIA’s sinister moves to cement further dissent in Pakistani society.

2.The CIA has always had a separate agenda from the declared stance of both the state and defence departments in Washington. History is replete with such internal duplicity within American administrations. Even when Mullen and Co and the Grossmans make their beeline to Islamabad to try and recover the fractured US-Pakistan relationship, they seem helpless in stemming the CIA’s private and secret war in Pakistan. Obama is either complicit or a wimp. News of Petraeus moving to the CIA if Panetta takes over defence after Gates will bring about an inimical nexus of individuals who retain their agenda on Pakistan. Even today, the CIA carries a possible Petraeus nod for their detrimental role in destabilising Pakistan even though it comes at the cost of threatening the US’s success in Afghanistan. There are wheels within wheels within the American system. Woodward tells us, “Petraeus need not necessarily agree with either the president or the secretary defence or even with Mullen” — he may well be executing his own war. With Petraeus out in July and Mullen in September, and Holbrooke’s parking space having changed permanently, it is an open play for the new nexus.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Apr 2011 10:44

CRamS wrote:Not too bad an analysis by Ahmed Rashid.

From this

There is ample evidence that many thwarted terrorist attacks in the West and India over the past few years have had a Pakistani Taliban or Lashkar-e-Taiba (Soldiers of the Pure) connection.

The PA has lost the Pakistani Taliban. They have been outside of their control for several years now. So, the Pakistani Taliban's terror attempts against the West are unpredictable and cannot be finely calibrated by the PA to its advantage. OTOH, since the LeT is still under the control of PA/ISI, the culpability for any attack by the LeT should be directly attributed to the PA/ISI, as it happened in Kabul, for example. The Kabul Indian Embassy attacks were managed by the PA, logistics provided by the Haqqani shura and manpower & training by the LeT. The botched up New York bomb plot by Faisal Shahzad was an LeT attempt and therefore a PA/ISI attack against the US. That was why Hillary Clinton gave a warning that one more attempt would make matters very difficult for Pakistan. Obviously, there have been many attempts by LeT (and by implication PA/ISI) on the West as Rashid says above which were thwarted and therefore did not come to light. That is why there is an increased focus on them now and everybody (Riedel, Fair et al) talks of how LeT is so dangerous and the most lethal Asian terrorist organization etc. As far back as December 2001, the US declared LeT as a Foreign Terrorist Organization but did very little afterwards. Though some LeT trained men were arrested in Virginia in 2003 in the famous 'Paintball jihad' case, they were planning attacks in Cashmere, not within the USA. In 2003 & 2004, LeT was targetting Australia. The LeT operative, Willie Brigitte, was arrested in Sydney in 2003 for planning to attack Aussie nuclear sites and later another LeT operative, Pakistani architect Lodhi, was arrested for trying to sabotage power grids. Willie Brigitte revealed how the LeT camp was run by PA soldiers, how weapons & munitions were provided by the PA. He mentioned that even the food came from PA. So, the PA/LeT nexus was known and well documented for a long time now. But, the shift came only after the LeT directly began threatening the US.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 25 Apr 2011 10:50

WTF?

India to export petroleum products to Pakistan

MUMBAI: India has agreed to export fuels to Pakistan to help the neighbouring country meet its shortfall and provide a new market for large refineries of Reliance Industries and Essar Oil, the Economic Times reported on Monday.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Apr 2011 10:55

Will Indo-Pak trade ties normalize ?
Once Pakistan grants us MFN status, everything will be forgotten and forgiven.

partha · Post by **partha** » 25 Apr 2011 11:17

Narad wrote:WTF?

India to export petroleum products to Pakistan

MUMBAI: India has agreed to export fuels to Pakistan to help the neighbouring country meet its shortfall and provide a new market for large refineries of Reliance Industries and Essar Oil, the Economic Times reported on Monday.

Who is gonna pay the import bill? US tax payers or IMF loans?

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 25 Apr 2011 12:22

SSridhar wrote:Will Indo-Pak trade ties normalize ?
Once Pakistan grants us MFN status, everything will be forgotten and forgiven.

This news report and the earlier one about petroleum product export are two examples of shallow reporting by two senior professionals in the business. They fail to present the structural rigidities, here we are not talking about political rigidities which are in any case far more more intractable- that come in the way of enhancing trade in the between the two countries. Take petroleum products. How do you export diesel or petrol? The land route is out of question. Oil tankers from the Indian side will drive up to the Wagah border. As per the rules of cross border trade goods will have to transferred to the
Pakistani trucks. The logistical nightmare not to speak of additional cost would render this proposal a non-starter.Then there is the issue of secure banking arrangements. Which bank in India will have the necessary counter party facility to ensure shippers get the payment and the domestic bank is not left holding the can for default by Pakistani banks? The ECGC will have to be roped in too to cover the political risks. The premiums are not going to be similar to doing a deal with a country such as Singapore- the destination for much of the oil exports. Singapore party sells them on high-seas contracts is another matter. For the Indian shipper it is a lot more preferrable dealing with a Singapore importer than a Pakistani one.
If we take textiles- the much tom-tomed commodity that pakistan can export to us. Here again the reporter is completely missing the point. Pakistan simply does not have the cotton or man-made fibre to convert into apparel for sale to india. Imagine the irony that india exports cotton to Pakistan so that their mills can convert into yarn/fabric and their garment exporters can convert into made-ups for sale in India. That is even assuming that the back forth transportation of cotton would be made up by superior efficiency in manufacture by Pakistan- an unralistic assumption in the first place.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 25 Apr 2011 12:25

WARNING: I tried to access nutty nation's site and realized that it is trying to download hundreds of KB on my PC. My licensed Anti-virus didn't catch any malicious activity but still I want to warn BRFites.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Apr 2011 15:00

partha wrote: SNIP........
Who is gonna pay the import bill? US tax payers or IMF loans?

How bout the Indian tax payer.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Apr 2011 15:05

The whole Patroleum contracts are interesting specially when RBI doesn't accept LoC from SBP. How will they transfer ther money? And if RBI does accept the SBP LoC who will guarantee payments?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 25 Apr 2011 15:36

Relax guys it is only Petroleum Jelly that is going to be exported

arun · Post by **arun** » 25 Apr 2011 15:46

X Posted from the ISI News and Discussion thread.

The Guantánamo Bay files leaked by Wikileaks shows that the Intelligence Agency of the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the ISI, is considered by the US as a Islamic Terrorist organisation.

The leaked document shows the ISI listed as an “Associated Force” “linked to militant forces and organizations with which al-Qaida, the al-Qaida network, or the Taliban had or has an established working, supportive, or beneficiary relationship for the achievement of common goals”.

The UK’s Guardian:

Guantánamo Bay files: Pakistan's ISI spy service listed as terrorist group

Anyone linked to Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate should be treated like al-Qaida or Taliban, interrogators told

Jason Burke

Monday 25 April 2011 10.46 BST

US authorities describe the main Pakistani intelligence service as a terrorist organisation in secret files obtained by the Guardian.

Recommendations to interrogators at Guantánamo Bay rank the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) alongside al-Qaida, Hamas and Hezbollah in Lebanon as threats. Being linked to any of these groups is an indication of terrorist or insurgent activity, the documents say.

"Through associations with these … organisations, a detainee may have provided support to al-Qaida or the Taliban, or engaged in hostilities against US or coalition forces [in Afghanistan]," says the document, dated September 2007 and called the Joint Task Force Guantánamo Matrix of Threat Indicators for Enemy Combatants. It adds that links to these groups is evidence that an individual poses a future threat.
The revelation that the ISI is considered as much of a threat as al-Qaida and the Taliban will cause fury in Pakistan. …………………

The Guardian

The document itself is available on the New York Times website. Click here and then scroll down till “Matrix of Threat Indicators for Enemy Combatants” appears. Check out Page 16 of that document.

The ISI is mentioned as the Pakistan Inter Services Intelligence Directorate (ISID) and is on a table that has been prepared by the US to show “Associated forces are those militant forces and organizations with which al-Qaida, the al-Qaida network, or the Taliban had or has an established working, supportive, or beneficiary relationship for the achievement of common goals.”

Alternatively Page 16 is linked below:

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Apr 2011 15:59

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Apr 2011 16:04

What will be interesting to look forward to is the spin from the Pakistanis (and possibly the Americans if the situation so demands) tomorrow.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Apr 2011 16:17

There is a whole lot of docs leaked on GB. NYT is running front page story on it....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/25/world ... bo.html?hp

The military analysts’ files provide new details about the most infamous of their prisoners, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the planner of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Sometime around March 2002, he ordered a former Baltimore resident to don a suicide bomb vest and carry out a “martyrdom” attack against Pervez Musharraf, then Pakistan’s president, according to the documents. But when the man, Majid Khan, got to the Pakistani mosque that he had been told Mr. Musharraf would visit, the assignment turned out to be just a test of his “willingness to die for the cause.”

The role of foreign officials: The leaked documents show how many foreign countries sent intelligence officers to question Guantánamo detainees — among them China, Russia, Tajikistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait, Algeria and Tunisia. One such visit changed a detainee’s account: a Saudi prisoner initially told American interrogators he had traveled to Afghanistan to train at a Libyan-run terrorist training camp. But an analyst added: “Detainee changed his story to a less incriminating one after the Saudi Delegation came and spoke to the detainees.”

The first to leave: The documents offer the first public look at the military’s views of 158 detainees who did not receive a formal hearing under a system instituted in 2004. Many were assessed to be “of little intelligence value” with no ties to or significant knowledge about Al Qaeda or the Taliban, as was the case of a detainee who was an Afghan used car salesman. But also among those freed early was a Pakistani who would become a suicide attacker three years later.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Apr 2011 16:22

Houston Chronicle:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/7535635.html

On Sept. 11, 2001, the core of al-Qaida was concentrated in a single city: Karachi, Pakistan.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 25 Apr 2011 16:32

A_gupta Just beat me to it

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Apr 2011 16:40

Kiyani denies it too

RAWALPINDI: A spokesman of Pakistan’s military, on Monday, denied a British newspaper’s report that Chief of the Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has been communicating with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh through a secret envoy.

Denying the report published in The Times of London on Saturday, the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) official termed the news “unfounded and completely baseless.”

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Apr 2011 16:47

Hafiz Saeed condemns US drone attacks, defends JuD

The chief of banned organisation Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) Hafiz Muhammad Saeed has challenged India to prove his organisation’s link to the Mumbai attacks, claiming India would never be able to substantiate this allegation.

Yeah right!!!

“Pakistan’s Interior Ministry tried hard to defend the Indian stance but failed. Pakistan is confronted with internal and external challenges and India is benefiting from that. Even the US is now talking India’s talk,” said Saeed.

Hmmmm.... Bhy phor targeting Malik Jee?

“When you spill innocent blood and the people you kill are not even technologically advanced like you – then such suicide bombings should be expected as a natural reaction,” argued Saeed.

^^^ Another Gem hafeez mia is concerned about the innocent lives...

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Apr 2011 16:57

At least 14 injured in attack on Peshawar police station

A blast struck a Pakistani police station in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Monday, damaging the building and wounding at least 14 people, an official said. Police said the blast occurred inside the room used to store ammunition.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Apr 2011 17:01

Another U-turn
Pakistan's Haider returns home after ending asylum bid

But after gaining security assurances from Pakistan interior minister Rehman Malik, Haider flew home on 24 April. "I spoke to Zulqarnain [on Sunday] and reassured him that he and his family will be perfectly safe," said Malik.

Botox "Pinky" Bebe must be rolling her eyes.

Manish Jain · Post by **Manish Jain** » 25 Apr 2011 17:04

Did Pasha get hold of Wikileaks earlier then us? This explains the quick flight back home from US visit. Just kidding though, US isn't gonna dump ISI. They'll just put some spin on the news.

And so will GOI, to keep the peace process going.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Apr 2011 17:12

Apparently there is talk of breaking Sindh into two provinces. Dividing Sindh.

Sindh not a ‘cake of Bombay bakers’: Mumtaz Bhutto

Mumtaz Bhutto has strongly rejected division of Sindh, saying that Sindh is not a ‘cake of Bombay bakers’ that could be sliced into pieces and divided among themselves, Geo News reported.

‘Sindh is amongst the ancient civilizations of the world and people of this soil will even sacrifice their beloved children for its safeguard’.

Is he now saying that Sindhi civilization predates the grand arrival of Bin Qasim (pbuh)?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Apr 2011 17:13

arun wrote:The UK’s Guardian:
Guantánamo Bay files: Pakistan's ISI spy service listed as terrorist group

Anyone linked to Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate should be treated like al-Qaida or Taliban, interrogators told

Logically speaking, from here, it should be a very short step to treat the entire Pakistani Army as Al Qaeda or Taliban. After that, it would be an even smaller step to declare Pakistan as a terrorist state, which it came very close to being so declared in 1993.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Apr 2011 17:16

Manish Jain wrote:the US isn't gonna dump ISI. They'll just put some spin on the news. And so will GOI, to keep the peace process going.

After which, we will believe that a grand plan has been hatched between the Hunud and the Nasara to 'take care' of Pakistan and hence this tango.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Apr 2011 17:17

saip wrote:This is from xerox khan
historically we fooled ourselves by referring to the disgraceful and humiliating defeats of 1965, 1971 and Kargil as glorious victories.
http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... 3520&Cat=9

How could you miss these quotes from the great copier?

Humility is a virtue and Allah likes humbleness.

Don’t drag religion into the game by praying on the field. These are simply acts of hypocrisy.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Apr 2011 18:01

Sri wrote:Kiyani denies it too

If you interview a rapist about the rape he committed he is hardly likely to admit it. Times Now calls Hamd Gul and asks him. How stupid.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 25 Apr 2011 18:09

SSridhar wrote:
Manish Jain wrote:the US isn't gonna dump ISI. They'll just put some spin on the news. And so will GOI, to keep the peace process going.
After which, we will believe that a grand plan has been hatched between the Hunud and the Nasara to 'take care' of Pakistan and hence this tango.

afaik, NYT front page no mention of ISI being listed. its prolly there in the embedded document but nothing in the written text or in the images. i briefly browsed through the comments most are standard US domestic

about how it is unmassa to git-mo' to git-er-done.

similar trend in HuPo too.

They have been careful not to make the TSP shenanigans a major revelation and are instead making the soundbites of the small fish the bigger story and redirect all the public attention to the gitmo debate.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 25 Apr 2011 18:38

Like that earlier vacuum bulb burst in Karachi, here is another creative Paki explanation:

'Toilet gas' blast damages police station in Peshawar
http://tribune.com.pk/story/156269/four ... e-station/

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 25 Apr 2011 18:46

^^^^
Behold the power of Pindi Channa. Gives new meaning to the phrase "bum blast"

saip · Post by **saip** » 25 Apr 2011 18:50

They must have eaten a lot of beans!

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 25 Apr 2011 20:11

SSridhar wrote:What will be interesting to look forward to is the spin from the Pakistanis (and possibly the Americans if the situation so demands) tomorrow.

That's easy. Note the past tense escape clause.

“Associated forces are those militant forces and organizations with which al-Qaida, the al-Qaida network, or the Taliban had or has an established working, supportive, or beneficiary relationship for the achievement of common goals.”

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 25 Apr 2011 20:14

jrjrao wrote:'Toilet gas' blast damages police station in Peshawar
http://tribune.com.pk/story/156269/four ... e-station/

So police chief blames Pakistan for the blast.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Apr 2011 21:45

jrjrao wrote:Like that earlier vacuum bulb burst in Karachi, here is another creative Paki explanation:

'Toilet gas' blast damages police station in Peshawar
http://tribune.com.pk/story/156269/four ... e-station/

New type of suicide bomber... completely untraceable....

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 25 Apr 2011 21:55

US considers Pak's ISI as terrorist organisation: Report
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 082808.cms

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Apr 2011 22:04

Manish Jain wrote:Did Pasha get hold of Wikileaks earlier then us? This explains the quick flight back home from US visit. Just kidding though, US isn't gonna dump ISI. They'll just put some spin on the news.

And so will GOI, to keep the peace process going.

Exactly. If this was published 10 years ago e could have saved some hundreds of Indian lives from terrorists attack. After losing so many lives and with no end to it this kind of info and revelation is not going to make any impact.

Most of the wikileaks is to trigger reactions from those nations and people to respond and take some actions. What uncle has found out that other nations are ignoring it.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Apr 2011 22:36

SSridhar wrote:
From this
There is ample evidence that many thwarted terrorist attacks in the West and India over the past few years have had a Pakistani Taliban or Lashkar-e-Taiba (Soldiers of the Pure) connection.
The PA has lost the Pakistani Taliban. They have been outside of their control for several years now. So, the Pakistani Taliban's terror attempts against the West are unpredictable and cannot be finely calibrated by the PA to its advantage.

They dont care if they have control or if they dont. This is a free for all land now and approaching the condition in Afghanistan. So Pak govt will just move from crisis to next crisis. People will see years pass by and problem increasing.
Few elite groups will control the national resources and army.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Apr 2011 01:24

A_Gupta wrote:Houston Chronicle:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/7535635.html
On Sept. 11, 2001, the core of al-Qaida was concentrated in a single city: Karachi, Pakistan.

A new thing that bugs me is that going by the above, **Afghanistan** was attacked by the US for no good reason, Pakistan should have been in the US gunsights from day zero.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 01:38

Someone was asking how to make US increase their pressure on TSP?

I suggest tell them of Indian plans to open new consulates and increase civilan aid to Afghanistan..

A-Gupta,
Slowly US people are also realising how mistaken Bin Powell was. He beat up the grass snake and saved the cobra!