Bharat Rakshak

Shiv, There is CT I am going to narrate.

Right around 1857 that is after end of Crimean War, the Brits decided they needed to confront Tsarist Russia. So they launched a 50 year plan to raise a new fighting force to do that job. They hit upon India to provide the bulk of the soldiers with their nationals as the officer class. The launch pad/hinterland for this project was to be the West Punjab region. So canals and irrigation projects were launced and the land settled to creat a population base there. QE Victoria was named as Empress of India as successor to the Mughal to gain legitimacy and WW Hunter wrote his "Muslamans of Punjab" type of propaganda. Wilfrid Scawen Blunt wrote his "Future of Islam" where he posits that by making her the Empress the loyalty of the Punjabi Muslims could be assured. Dar ul uloom Deoband was started to give the idea that such ruler was not a kafir but ruler of Dar ul-Islam as he/she protects the Muslims of India. The idea of transeferring the capital from Kolkata to Delhi was also on the cards to regain former status of Delhi which was diminished after Mughals were massacred.

The Lord Kitchener reforms of British Indian Army is part of this plan. He reorganised the three EIC armies into commands. See the location of all the cantonments and staff colleges in British India is in modern day Pakistan.

To me British project was the invasion of Tsarist Russia that got thwarted by two big events. WWI where Tsarist Russia collapsed and became Communist Soviet Union and the rise of Indian national aspirations. The Brits didn't give up but created Pakistan to preserve that old plan but by then they were a brutus fulmen (useless thunderbolt) or toothless lion. The US took over and used them for the Afghan jihad and the rest we know.

So one reading is that TSP's purpose is served and hence the disinterest in preserving it.

="RoperiaIf a full fledged insurgency starts in Sindh (which is unlikely as long as PPP is in power or in a prominent role in national politics), the Punjabi mussalman will be fighting serious insurgencies in 3 of the 4 provinces of Jinnah's dream while training India-specific terrorists in Punjab and PoK simultaneously. That situation will be more untenable for the Pak-jabi!

Zardari must martyr himself to become the founding father of Sindhdesh. Bilawal can then rule with challenge.

Sudip wrote: [youtube]

The BSF Officer looks 400% SDRE. He remind me of one Captain in Faridkot who was incharge of interrogating Poqy POW. Though tough, he was very kind man and made sure Paki Kid soldiers were unharmed.

Shiv,

Even before the British era of clearing the forests and settling in people, I don't think you can probably call Punjab a state that was weak in potential. It had five rivers and good fertile land. Places like Kashmir, Sindh, Rajashtan, frontier were far less fertile & productive. Certainly the people who conquered Punjab themselves came from far less fertile lands. Southern Punjab (Multan, Seraiki) was bad for agriculture, but not most of Punjab, certainly not West Punjab. They had the misfortune of being the neighbors of the Pashtuns :-(

Brihaspati can comment more on the motivation of clearing out the forests. It does not appear that this mass scale forest clearing was done in other parts of India. The ecological damage was probably immense. Of course, the security purchased by preventing insurgencies was immense. Had the forests remained, INC's war with Sikhs in 1980's would have shaped differently.

by Shiv
That probably means that before the 1850s Punjab was cultivable only along the rivers and that too those rivers were prone to flooding and changing course making settled life inconvenient. If true, this probably defines Punjab before 1850. The area may not actually have supported a very large population with many cities and towns. Fewer people means fewer resources like taxes and soldiers for kings. That would have made Punjab a "weak state" that was prone to invasion and take over by anyone who came. In that sense what Ranjit Singh did was amazing.

Exactly!!! All the Punjabi cities before 1880s building of the canals were on the banks of rivers and villages close by. The most populated was the Bar Doab. Bar doab was called the Heart of Punjab.

BAR Doab == Beaus and Ravi (Amritsar, Ferozepur, Batala, Lahore, Nankana Sahib, Sialkot, Kasur, Multan and even Harappan civilization is here)

Starting from Indian side of Punjab

Patiala is southern Punjab and closer to Rajasthan and is not between any rivers (unless going back in real ancient history when river Saraswati existed). This are was sparsely populated and the biggest city here was the Mughal City of Sarhind before Raja Ala of the Phulkian Misl carved the state of Patiala.

Satluj and Beaus Doab (Hoshiarpur, Jalandhar, Ludhiana) was the second most populated doab and most of the soldiers who got land in BAR doab along the canals were from this area.

Do (two) Ab (waters) means "Land between Two Waters"

The third was Rachana Doab is = Ravi and Chenab river., where cities like Gujranwala, etc. Sparsely populated.

The fourth populated was the Chaj Doab (Chenab and Jhelum river) which was not that much populated and later British created water colonies of Sargodha, Wazirabad, etc. The biggest city in this area is called Gujarat. This city was created by the Raja Bachan Pal Gujjar in 460 B.C (Gujjar are the people who take care of milk and milk products like Lord Krishna) This is the same city where Raja Porus faced Alexandar on the banks of Chenab.

Beyond which is the river Indus and cities like Rawalpindi which is a mixture of Punjab-Dogri-Kashmiri speaking people who speak a punjabi dialect called "Pothohari" .


----- Personal Anecdote

My grandfather was the only son and had two sisters. I remember talking to the surviving sister about their experiences at semi-colonized Lyallpur., she says that people were afraid of "Baluchis" abducting Women and thus they were always armed (even women carried weapons like Shotguns). The land was very hard with lots of "Kikkar" trees. check this picture.



and her father who was still in process of making the land usable (out of 500 acres of land only 100 or so acres were made usable by his father (my great-great grand father)) and his daily routine was

1. Hiring the laborers.
2. Food/water/transportation of them.
3. Hiring paid gunmen to protect these workers from wild animals (killing snakes, etc).
etc.

-------
The success of Ranjit Singh was

1. Got together all the Sikh misls against foreigners.

2. Got modernized his forces with French and British tactics.

3. Got secular outlook so that "islamic" element could not be exploited by outsiders (as previously by Afghans and Mughals).

4. Got very smart in dealing with British to keep them away from invading Punjab.

But British being British played the State of Patiala (and Kapurthala, Nabha) against Ranjit Singh and eventually they took over Lahore while keeping Patiala sort of "Semi - independent" They took Ranjit Singh's son to London and converted him to Christianity.

Ranjit Singh while keeping British at bay focused on the areas beyond river Chenab and Jhelum and had spectacular success. Had Ranjit Singh got Patiala, Nabha and Kapurthala to along with him., british would have returned from Calcutta in early 1800s and not Delhi in 1947.

surinder wrote:Shiv,

Even before the British era of clearing the forests and settling in people, I don't think you can probably call Punjab a state that was weak in potential. It had five rivers and good fertile land. Places like Kashmir, Sindh, Rajashtan, frontier were far less fertile & productive. Certainly the people who conquered Punjab themselves came from far less fertile lands. Southern Punjab (Multan, Seraiki) was bad for agriculture, but not most of Punjab, certainly not West Punjab. They had the misfortune of being the neighbors of the Pashtuns :-(

Brihaspati can comment more on the motivation of clearing out the forests. It does not appear that this mass scale forest clearing was done in other parts of India. The ecological damage was probably immense. Of course, the security purchased by preventing insurgencies was immense. Had the forests remained, INC's war with Sikhs in 1980's would have shaped differently.

It was done to remove the hideouts for rebels or the elements who were unwilling to submit to the Brit rule.

by Sushupti

It was done to remove the hideouts for rebels or the elements who were unwilling to submit to the Brit rule.

The whole of this area that was cleared out of jungles before 1947 was utilized
1. Cultivation of Cotton.
2. Wheat, pulses, sugar and mustard (oil) for defense first and then rest later.


India served as a place to make raw material for the cotton mills of Manchester and slowly when manchester became expensive Bombay/Surat and other cotton processing areas of India.

SBajwa wrote:

by Sushupti

It was done to remove the hideouts for rebels or the elements who were unwilling to submit to the Brit rule.

The whole of this area that was cleared out of jungles before 1947 was utilized
1. Cultivation of Cotton.
2. Wheat, pulses, sugar and mustard (oil) for defense first and then rest later.


India served as a place to make raw material for the cotton mills of Manchester and slowly when manchester became expensive Bombay/Surat and other cotton processing areas of India.

JCT Mills (Jagatjit Cotton Textiles) was probably the first cotton mill in Punjab.

SBajwa wrote:

by Sushupti

It was done to remove the hideouts for rebels or the elements who were unwilling to submit to the Brit rule.

The whole of this area that was cleared out of jungles before 1947 was utilized
1. Cultivation of Cotton.
2. Wheat, pulses, sugar and mustard (oil) for defense first and then rest later.


India served as a place to make raw material for the cotton mills of Manchester and slowly when manchester became expensive Bombay/Surat and other cotton processing areas of India.

My comment was based on what i heard from my Grandpa. After 1857, Brits did lot of forest cleansing in the Gangetic plains. real reason was to, as mentioned above, deny any place to hide for so called miscreants.

Anujan wrote:Zafar Hilaly's column's last line is a gem

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9 ... fghanistan

Allowing ourselves to be seduced by America was bad enough but getting raped on its account is intolerable’

.

Nice article. It should be read critically as a case study of TFTA psyche and yields valuable nuggets on how to end this menace.

meanwhile, the results from today's 2 PPL games held in Quetta and Karachi:

5 die in Quetta attack on FC convoy

7 killed on sixth day of Lyari operation

57 mins ago: 2 more gunned down in Karachi

Waiting for Abbotabad Ar5eholes to field their own team to take on the Faujis who collaborated with the Kafirs to take down the Sheikh

shiv wrote:

Sudip wrote:

Poor girl. She did her duty and well - but it can be upsetting to any human - even a trained one and I don't think the attention helps. She must have access to counselling so she doesn't carry around guilt.

Very moving, Gentle and unassuming simplicity, but a steel core not to be fcuked with... Essence of SDREness that we take so much for granted.

by Sushupti

My comment was based on what i heard from my Grandpa. After 1857, Brits did lot of forest cleansing in the Gangetic plains. real reason was to, as mentioned above, deny any place to hide for so called miscreants.

Forcing jungles to catch few miscreants is probably wasting too much money They did it for their own benifit.

While Punjab-Haryana-Western UP was utilized for Cotton and food for the armed forces of Britain, Gangetic belt was utilized for Opium and force opium production. Starting from the Ghazipur belt down the Ganga to Calcutta was one bit British Opium churning factory that they exported to China/etc with help of their forced colonies (of Gangetic, Bengalis/Biharis people) at Mauritius, Africa, Malaya, Singapore and other areas.

The only reason to force India get rid of its jungles was to

1. Food for the Queen/King forces.
2. Raw material for Manchester.
3. Raw and processed Drugs for rest of the world (Drug trade)

do you know that Sir Jamshedji TATA's father was in business of shipping Opium to Hongkong and that's how he made his fortune.

SBajwa: there can be more than one motive for clearing forests. OT but clearing jungles to end guerilla warfare is a known anglo tactic; agent orange was used in Vietnam.

From 1860-1900 deforestation in India is well studied: four main factors
(1) Brit desire to bring land under taxation - agricultural land was taxed more
(2) Wood for railway sleeper and shipbuilding for Royal Navy. In britland proper they had exhausted oak by 1700's. So Indian saal/teak was in great demand for "war effort" and "national interest". Canada and India were the main ship-building wood suppliers.
(3) Private contractors for logging and commercial farming under European lessees.
(4) punitive clearing of habitats of "criminal tribes" [this is well documented]

Dalhousie and Gibson are often cited as having promoted conservation and afforestation - but their eye was primarily on afforestation with teak - needed by the imperialists, and other items for economic exploitation like eucalyptus or sandalwood or forest products. Between the two wars Punjab is supposed to have been partially re-forested, but again timber needs for war and war expenses removed a lot of these trees from Punjab too [as in other parts of the country].

Its a good thing for Indian forests that they moved to steel with the Bessemer process in mid 1850s!

Giving land to loyal soldiers in difficult terrain and possibly in areas previously held by hostile and defeated resistance movements - was a leaf taken out from the Roman textbook. Julius Caesar's uncle [hubbie of his dad's elder sis] is credited with the innovation of settling loyal old soldiers in conquered lands. This was part of imperialist colonization with a long-view. The same might have happened at least partially with west Punjab.

In fact the two extremities of the GV - on both sides - had a very late burst of Islamic population growth, more by designed land usage rights granted and promoted towards the end of Mughal and from middle to end Brit imperialism. In the East climate and geography was hostile for large populations until middle Mughal and in the west it remained hostile until artificial irrigation.

ramana wrote:Its a good thing for Indian forests that they moved to steel with the Bessemer process in mid 1850s!

ramana ji,
they still felled a huge number even in the 20th century - sleepers, and commercial logging as well as buildings. In Madras presidency alone the number of trees annually removed was on an average 35000 - directly for use outside India.

surinder wrote:Shiv,

Even before the British era of clearing the forests and settling in people, I don't think you can probably call Punjab a state that was weak in potential. It had five rivers and good fertile land. Places like Kashmir, Sindh, Rajashtan, frontier were far less fertile & productive. Certainly the people who conquered Punjab themselves came from far less fertile lands. Southern Punjab (Multan, Seraiki) was bad for agriculture, but not most of Punjab, certainly not West Punjab. They had the misfortune of being the neighbors of the Pashtuns :-(

Brihaspati can comment more on the motivation of clearing out the forests. It does not appear that this mass scale forest clearing was done in other parts of India. The ecological damage was probably immense. Of course, the security purchased by preventing insurgencies was immense. Had the forests remained, INC's war with Sikhs in 1980's would have shaped differently.

Surinder I had a chance to think about my own statement overnight. No land with five (plus one) flowing rivers can be bad for agriculture. But there are a few peculiarities unique to Punjab. The first is that the rivers are fast flowing and are prone to flooding and change of course because they are relatively "young" rivers from young mountains. The second is that the western side of the river is basically desert, while you get fertile plains (of India) to the east. That is what made people from the western deserts want to come to the Shangri La of the east. The rivers have always served as a natural barrier to all invaders in both directions. But there was very little to loot and capture in the west. the treasures were and are in the east.

These factors probably made east Punjab/Haryana less prone to takeover from the west and less prone to being influenced by the western hordes. All "civilization" in western Punjab and Afghanistan came from the east of the rivers. Anything that you call "civilization. learning and art" came from the east. It was only murderous hordes who came from the west and north. Of all the invasions in recorded history the islamic invasions appear to be the most damaging because they invariably replaced an old and well developed culture with primitive Islamic tribal rules that are fundamentally incapable of developing into any kind of civilization without dilution or modification even as it destroyed all signs of an older civilization.

Call it Islamophobia if you like, but the other side of the story is "telling it like it is". It is easy to hide behind the veneer of "islamophobia" until you see that all Islamic empires depended on expansion and looting, but flourished as long as those empires openly imported, translated and used knowledge and technology made by others. Nothing much can come from a tribal Bedouin doctrine suitable for nomadic Arabs set in stone and made irrevocable and unchangeable. Unless you say that Hafeez Saeed and Taliban are "recent advances in human civilization"

Age old dynamics are still at play. The Indus and its tributaries still have an effect on what happens on either bank. This gives me some thoughts about the future - will get to them in due course.

CNN-IBN Video Is Pakistan still a safe haven for groups backed by al-Qaeda?

Anujan wrote:Gushing water brings devotees, visitors to bin Laden compound
http://tribune.com.pk/story/372856/gush ... -compound/

“There is some spirituality about this place since water keeps gushing forth without the use of an electric motor,” said Omar Khan, a resident of Abbottabad.

It’s a miracle that water gushes forth like a spring because those killed at this place were innocent people, Khan says.
While he does not necessarily believe that those killed in the raid were bin Laden, his couriers and son, he says those killed were “some innocent Muslims” nonetheless.

ArmenT wrote:I bet they accidentally punctured a public sewer pipe when destroying the bin Laden compound. Therefore when a neighbor flushes their toilet, the gushing water suddenly appears. Scary part is the picture shows the locals indulging in it like it is zam-zam cola. I predict that next week's headline will read: "Cholera outbreak in Abbotabad"

Yet more of the fondness for IT of the "Osama is our Herrow” kind and when I say IT I am not talking about Information Technology but rather of Islamic Terrorism, on display in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Al Jazeera reports rallies being held in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to commemorate the first anniversary of the execution of Mohammadden Terrorist Osama Bin Laden:

Rallies in Pakistan pay tribute to bin Laden

After paying out some USD 25 Billion as Jaziya, the US of A is reduced to bleating about the duplicitious Mohammadden Terrorism supporting ways of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Will the "Ra-Ra US of A brigade" on BRF care to point out what lesson in robust muscularity India must learn from all of this ?

Pakistan focus on internal terror threats causes concern in US:

"The Pakistani military targets those militants which they believe pose a direct threat to the Pakistani government as opposed to those who they believe are focused primarily on Afghanistan,"

It seems some in PoK are fed up with ISI as well.

Grinch Charming, Pinch Worming and Kink Darling

PM, President meet COAS
( See COAS is all Powerfool)

ISLAMABAD: President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani were meeting at the President’s House on Wednesday, DawnNews reported.
Earlier today, General Kayani had held a separate meeting with Prime Minister Gilani at the Prime Minister House.Matters relating to defence and security came under discussion during the first meeting which also discussed the regional situation and US-Pakistan relations in the light of parliamentary recommendations.Last week, US officials visited Pakistan for talks on rebuilding ties but left without agreement.The parliament had asked for Washington to apologise for killing 24 Pakistani border troops last November.
The United States has expressed regret, but has declined to say it is sorry.Today’s meetings come in the wake of Gilani’s conviction on contempt of court charges by the Supreme Court and subsequent opposition calls for his resignation. The meeting also assumes significant proportions due to General Kayani’s remarks during a speech on Sunday.
Kayani’s remarks
In his speech on Sunday, General Kayani urged all organs of the state to adhere to their roles defined by the Constitution and stressed equal justice for all.The army chief’s prepared remarks at the martyrs’ day ceremony at the military headquarters were significant given that the controversy generated by the Supreme Court’s verdict about the future of the prime minister appeared to be descending into a full-scale political crisis after the PML-N threatened to launch an all-out movement to force Gilani’s resignation.The Constitution of Pakistan has clearly delineated the responsibilities and roles of the national institutions. It is now our responsibility that we resolve our issues, while remaining within the constitutional limits, in a manner that it increases respect and dignity of both our country and ourselves,” General Kayani had said in his comments in Urdu

arun wrote: Rallies in Pakistan pay tribute to bin Laden

Watch boob squeezer Gilani squeezing Clinton's hand from 1:33 to 1:36 seconds. He holds on to the hand for so long that Clinton drops her eye contact for a brief moment and looks at the hand as if to to ask "What's with the hand holding?" and then raises her eyes again. Gilani then lets go.

ATM machines, rail tracks targeted in 19 blasts in Pak's Sindh

At least 19 low-intensity bomb blasts targeted ATM machines of state-run banks and railway tracks in Sindh province of southern Pakistan today, injuring six persons, including two policemen.

The explosions occurred in cities and towns across Sindh, including the capital city of Karachi, early this morning.

A private security guard was injured in a blast at a bank in Kotri town while two policemen were wounded in blasts at Hyderabad and Dorki, officials of the provincial Home Department said.

Five blasts targeted ATM machines outside branches of the National Bank of Pakistan and Sindh Bank in Hyderabad city.

Blasts were also reported in Kotri, Dadu, Badin, Sukkur, Nawabshah, Thatta, Ranipur, Khairpur Nathan Shah, Tando Mohammad Khan and Larkana.
Two vehicles were damaged in the blast at Kotri.

A shop adjacent to the National Bank branch in Jamshoro was damaged by a blast.
One low-intensity explosion damaged railway tracks near Ghotki.
The Jaffar Express train, going from Punjab to Sindh, had a narrow escape, media reports said.

Local residents gathered at the tracks and signalled the train to stop.
A blast was also reported at Gulistan-e-Johar area of Karachi though there were no casualties.

In Hyderabad city, an injured man underwent surgery while other wounded were discharged after being given first aid, said Anwar Arain, a doctor at the Civil Hospital.
Latif Ansari, regional head of the National Bank, said 11 branches were attacked. "The terrorists only targeted the ATM machine rooms. However, the roof of a branch in Latifabad caved in and documents and furniture caught fire," he said.Senior Superintendent of Police Haseeb Afzal Baig said the first bomb went off in Hyderabad at about 5:30 am, local time.

The bombs used in Hyderabad city contained at least 500 gm of explosives, he said.
A little-known organisation called the Sindhu Desh Liberation Army claimed responsibility for the blasts.

Chota IEDs mubarak

X Posted from the India - US Strategic News & Discussion thread.

The need for India to be cautiously circumspect in dealing with the US reiterated.

India-baiter, US legislator Dana Rohrabacher, pushes for an alliance with India:

‘Peace in region only when US aligns with India’

……………. Peace can only be won when everybody has a seat at the table, power is dispersed and we align ourselves with democratic India. ………………

Zee News

And then promptly goes back to his India baiting ways while doing an equal=equal between India and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Pen friends: Rohrabacher writes letter to Gilani, calls Pakistan a 'failed state'

Warns that aid for Pakist¬an will dry up once the US leaves Afghan¬istan.

By Huma Imtiaz
Published: May 3, 2012

………………………. In his letter, Rep. Rohrabacher says that until Pakistan’s government and military deny ethnic groups in the country their right to self-determination, the country’s future will “remain bleak and marred by political violence”. He added that he has long held India to the same standard as well. …………………………

Express Tribune

Main Jahan Challa Jaoon, Maaar Parri Jaaye, Duniya kahe Poaqfool, Shoe Ka Dhool
( Uncle ki Jee Hazoori, Poaq Gariibi ki Mazboori)

ISLAMABAD: The top political and military leadership once again put their heads together on Wednesday to search for the way ahead in stalled negotiations with the US for resetting relations, but made little progress beyond concurring that the ties were too critical to be left in limbo.“We discussed various formulations for the demands to be made from the US, including the text of a possible apology statement that would not only be acceptable to us, but would also help the Americans overcome their reluctance in apologising,” one of the participants of the meeting told Dawn.The meeting was the third of the newly-formed informal group of decision-makers over the past seven days.The first round of formal parleys between the US and Pakistan last week failed because of the US insistence on not discussing cessation of drone attacks and refusing to apologise for the Salala attack.A source said that following the impasse over apology, the Pakistani side started working on a text of a statement that could be acceptable to both Pakistan and the US. The idea is that after developing consensus at home, the text of the proposed apology statement would be suggested to the Americans asking them to announce it so that the two sides could move on with the negotiations on other issues.The under-consideration text, though mild in language than a direct apology, includes an implied acceptance by the US of responsibility for the deadly strikes. It has been endorsed by the civilian leaders, while the army is said to be studying it.Explaining Pakistan’s position on the issue of apology, the source said Americans were morally bound to apologise for killing 24 young soldiers of an ally which, according to their own assessment, had done more in the war on terror than any other partner. “It (the apology) is important to keep the morale of our troops fighting terrorism and extremism high.”ther than apology, the presidency meeting spent significant time discussing the new terms for the re-opening of Nato supply routes including imposition of new taxes, which is being termed “the opportunity cost”.

Cant belive our Politicos and Babus put the Engine lease on the table

Railways not too keen on giving locos to Pakistan

I understand MMS has never stood for elections but has been parachuted to the Top, but he should understand his first duty is to serve the citizens of India and provide for them before doing the Aman ki Asha gimmicks

Around 500 engines are produced annually by its two public sector manufacturing units but the public transporter is still unable to meet its domestic demand, pegged around 700 locos every year.

Railway authorities, though not too keen on the deal, realize that the decision may not be theirs after all and will be taken at a higher political level, given the diplomatic ramifications.

The public transporter will also insist on Pakistani commitments on a simplified visa process and diplomatic immunity for Indian technical staff who need to be deputed across the border for maintenance works. Besides, Pakistan will also need to facilitate smooth flow of supply of spare parts from India.

Fat chance, they will scew up the Engines and WKK brigade will say we need to pay them so that they can import Engines from USA or CHina.


I am all for this proposal if paid by Ruling Coalition MP's and NAC members from thier personal pockets

Recall I had posted this:

Anujan wrote:For Pakistan watchers. There is an interesting clusterf*ck going on there:

1. First US attacks salala post and sends a few to get their 72 and Pakistan army decides to suspend NATO routes.

2. Since Pak army gets Baksheesh from NATO, they have to reopen the routes. And since they dont want to be seen downhill ski-ing, they give the grenade with the removed pin to the civvies and ask them to make a decision about reopening NATO routes. Two birds in one stone: Unkil is now pressurizing the civvies and finally when the Civvies agree, they can be blamed for not standing up to Unkil.

3. The Chunkian Groper-Zardari combo lob the grenade at the parliament, saying that a joint session of the Parliament will make a decision vis-a-vis NATO. Now if the opposition agrees to open NATO routes, they would be seen as downhill ski-ing. So the opposition refuses.

4. The interesting thing is that an agreement is already in place as to what they want in return for re-opening NATO routes. Pieces of that has trickled out: Like Pak railways being used for good transport, for better tracking and accounting (now you know why Pakis want locomotives from India and SDREs are wary of selling them), sharing the baksheesh between railways and National logisitics cell, no use of private contractors for transport, an increase in tariff etc. Now the Army and some sane people of finance ministry see what they have done, realize that they would never be able to reopen NATO routes because they are in a mexican standoff. Everyone wants a face saving gesture.

5. People start planting stories like "Kerry coming to apologize. Ombaba apologized in private but doesnt want it to be made public, we are TFTA and didnt lose our face after all". Expect such story planting to increase.

6. In massa, Ombaba is not going to apologize because this is an election year.

Meanwhile SDREs have gathered up beer and popcorn and enjoying the tamasha.

And read this news:

http://dawn.com/2012/05/03/political-an ... f-apology/

The forum, which includes President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar, Finance Minister Hafeez Sheikh, Interior Minister Rehman Malik, Foreign Secretary Jalil Abbas Jilani, Finance Secretary Wajid Rana, Ambassador to the US Sherry Rehman, Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Kayani and ISI head Lt-Gen Zaheerul Islam {all of them got together for what?} “We discussed various formulations for the demands to be made from the US, including the text of a possible apology statement that would not only be acceptable to us, but would also help the Americans overcome their reluctance in apologising,” one of the participants of the meeting told Dawn.

A source said that following the impasse over apology, the Pakistani side started working on a text of a statement that could be acceptable to both Pakistan and the US. The idea is that after developing consensus at home, the text of the proposed apology statement would be suggested to the Americans asking them to announce it so that the two sides could move on with the negotiations on other issues. {Other issues = money}

Aditya_V wrote: Fat chance, they will scew up the Engines and WKK brigade will say we need to pay them so that they can import Engines from USA or CHina.

I am all for this proposal if paid by Ruling Coalition MP's and NAC members from thier personal pockets

It is not just that. They need the locos to transport NATO supplies and goods during amreican withdrawal for Army-run national logistics cell to make money. So India will be funding Pak army!!

--del--

Unesco ranks Pakistan second (most dangerous for journalists)
Yay!! We are No. 2!!

The report alarmingly ranks Pakistan as “the second most dangerous country for journalists the world over”.

However, the statistics compiled by the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) tell an entirely different story, saying as many as 42 journalists have been killed in Pakistan since 1992.

But, when the news is not that flattering for pa'astan, then it's time to do a "we South Asians are all in this together" song and dance.

Journalists in the region have responded to these challenges by seeking a manner of professional engagement that reflects all South Asia’s rich diversities.

Another paki hopes for IPL
What is IPL without the pakis, you ask?

Hammad Azam hoping to play in IPL

Pakistan’s all-rounder Hammad Azam feels the Indian Premier League (IPL) is gloomy without Pakistani cricketers

Everyone knows that Pakistani cricketers are currently not being given the opportunity to play in the IPL but I believe that the tournament would be a greater spectacle with the inclusion of Pakistani cricketers

Yeah! It will be a blast! Read the comments at the end of the story.

Anujan wrote:

Aditya_V wrote: Fat chance, they will scew up the Engines and WKK brigade will say we need to pay them so that they can import Engines from USA or CHina.

I am all for this proposal if paid by Ruling Coalition MP's and NAC members from thier personal pockets

It is not just that. They need the locos to transport NATO supplies and goods during amreican withdrawal for Army-run national logistics cell to make money. So India will be funding Pak army!!

Is the Indian Railways actually expecting payments for the engines? Are there any details available? Can we afford to have a chance that a well-made engine could be made a matter of contention, and even misused for withdrawal which may not improve situation in Afghanistan in any way?

anupmisra wrote:Another paki hopes for IPL
What is IPL without the pakis, you ask?

Hammad Azam hoping to play in IPL

Pakistan’s all-rounder Hammad Azam feels the Indian Premier League (IPL) is gloomy without Pakistani cricketers

Everyone knows that Pakistani cricketers are currently not being given the opportunity to play in the IPL but I believe that the tournament would be a greater spectacle with the inclusion of Pakistani cricketers

Yeah! It will be a blast! Read the comments at the end of the story.

there is a saying in my part of the country. "Chipkali bolti hai ke me badi ho ke magarmacch banoongi"

translation: a lizard dreams that when it grows up it will be a crocodile.

since azhar mahmood got his visa he has become just like shoaib malik. he is talking as if he is an indian and keeps on bashing pakistan politics and PCB.

Anujan wrote:

Aditya_V wrote: Fat chance, they will scew up the Engines and WKK brigade will say we need to pay them so that they can import Engines from USA or CHina.

I am all for this proposal if paid by Ruling Coalition MP's and NAC members from thier personal pockets

It is not just that. They need the locos to transport NATO supplies and goods during amreican withdrawal for Army-run national logistics cell to make money. So India will be funding Pak army!!

I think we need to tell the Pakis that they can have all the movies that they want, and some industrial machinery and loads of finished goods.

But nothing of use to the Pakistani army must ever be sold to them.

Newsprint takes Attari-wagah route into Pakistan as country allows import

A consignment of newsprint was sent to Pakistan on Thursday for the first time via the Attari-Wagah land route after Islamabad allowed its import from India in March this year.


A leading paper producer in the Northern region, Khanna Paper Mills, got an order for the supply of newsprint from Pakistan's leading newspapers The Dawn and the Jung Group on a trial basis.

“A newspaper which costs Rs 28 in Pakistan will get cheaper options by using the newsprint made here (in India) because we are located just 60 km away from them,” he said.