Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

What's wrong in using a bit of economic muscle?

Don't other countries do it all the time??

'India won't give landing rights to Lufthansa'
Sat Sep 10 2011

India has refused to grant landing rights for German airline Lufthansa's A-380 aircraft in the capital New Delhi, a German daily said on Friday.



Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper reported in a prerelease of its Saturday edition that the Indian government's decision was made apparently because the Lufthansa-led "Star Alliance" network of airlines had rejected Air India's request to become a Star Alliance member.



It said Star Alliance last month decided to turn down the request of state-owned Air India to become a member because of the latter's weak financial situation.



The report said the denial of landing rights would be a blow to Lufthansa's ambition to expand its flight offers to India.



A spokesman for Lufthansa said the landing rights issue should not be linked to Star Alliance's decision on Air India, saying other airlines have also been unsuccessful so far in obtaining the right to land some of their aircraft in New Delhi.
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Virupaksha »

chetak wrote:What's wrong in using a bit of economic muscle?

Don't other countries do it all the time??
all the time.
SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5873
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by SBajwa »

flexing the economic muscles is a good thing!!
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Here's people flexing muscles of a different kind :D

Morons on flights on 9/11!


Fighter jets scramble over passengers 'making out' in toilet

Fighter jets were scrambled and bomb squads were called out after security fears on US passenger planes on the anniversary of the September 11 attacks - but officials said the scares were nothing more than people "making out" in bathrooms and long toilet breaks.

A domestic Frontier Airlines flight from Denver to Detroit was shadowed by F-16 jets on Sunday after two passengers were spending "an extraordinarily long time" in the plane's bathroom, spokesman Peter Kowalchuck told the Associated Press.
suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4111
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by suryag »

Folks did we all miss the first flight of the NAL-Mahindra NM5 ?
The link below says it flew first on Sep1, congrats NAL-Mahindra team
ndia's first indigenous civilian aircraft

Hope the NCAD project also picks up well
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9199
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by nachiket »

chetak wrote:What's wrong in using a bit of economic muscle?

Don't other countries do it all the time??
They do. When their citizens have something to gain. In this case, passengers flying out of Delhi will lose the option of flying on Lufthansa's A380s because fat cats at AI are angry that they didn't get into the club because of a weak financial situation despite gobbling up thousands of crores of public money.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

nachiket wrote:
chetak wrote:What's wrong in using a bit of economic muscle?

Don't other countries do it all the time??
They do. When their citizens have something to gain. In this case, passengers flying out of Delhi will lose the option of flying on Lufthansa's A380s because fat cats at AI are angry that they didn't get into the club because of a weak financial situation despite gobbling up thousands of crores of public money.
AI is not responsible for the mess.

Other people are.... :evil:

Murdering the Maharaja…
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

KOGT seems to have lined up some new investors in the short term :)

For the first time ever they seem to have delayed employee salaries by 10-15 days last month. This is not a good sign for any company.

Vijay Mallya-promoted Kingfisher Airlines's auditor BK Ramadhyani & Co raises doubts over company's survival
15 Sep, 2011

MUMBAI: Vijay Mallya-promoted Kingfisher Airlines has found itself parrying questions about its survival after its auditor raised doubts over the company's ability to stay in business for long.

Audit firm BK Ramadhyani & Co, which examined the books of the airline, said in remarks published in the airline's annual report that Kingfisher's ability to remain a "going concern" will depend on its promoters bringing in money into the company. It also said Kingfisher has not deposited with the government money it collected from employees as tax deducted at source and provident fund contribution, painting a dire picture of the airline's finances.

The term 'going concern' is accounting shorthand for a company's ability to continue its operations in the near future, and analysts say it is extremely rare for auditors to refer to it lightly. Kingfisher, which had accumulated losses of Rs 4,321 crore - more than 50% of its net worth - at the end of the financial year ended March 2011, strongly defended its ability to remain in business.

"It is incorrect to say that Kingfisher Airlines (KFA) auditors have raised serious doubts about the survival of the Airline," Ravi Nedungadi, CFO of UB Group, of which Kingfisher is a part, said in a statement. "In fact, Para [9] of the Auditors' Report only draws attention of the members to the reasons (which have been accepted by the Auditors) for preparing the accounts under the going concern concept," it added.

He added that as per RBI directives, Kingfisher's lenders, along with the assistance of SBI Capital Markets, had independently assessed the airline's viability.

Report to Unsettle Investors

The lenders have confirmed it to be a viable going concern, Nedungadi said. "The fact that all the company's accounts with bankers are classified as "Standard", i.e. within norms, further gives credence to the issue of going concern," he said. Nedungadi said UB Group's business associates have already pumped Rs 475 crore into the airline till December. "We look at it not as erosion but as a long-term view as investment to acquire 25% of market share," he said.

But the auditor's report is likely to unsettle nervous Kingfisher investors who have already been rattled by its inability to raise money and its acute cash crunch. "Clearly, the auditor is sceptical of the "going concern" credentials of Kingfisher Airlines," said Neeraj Monga, executive VP of Toronto-based Veritas Investment Research, in a report dated September 12 on the company's accounting policies.

Company 'withheld' govt dues, says auditor

The airline, according to the auditor, has also defaulted on loans to banks and institutions, and withheld statutory dues to the government. "Undisputed statutory dues in respect of service tax, withholding taxes, provident funds... have not been regularly deposited with the appropriate authorities," the auditor has said. The dues do not include the disputed amounts with various statutory authorities.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Theo_Fidel »

T3 is flooded. Kinda sad to see it fail so easily. :(

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15178
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Suraj »

Rather misleading. It seems to have only caused some water entry in the lowest arrival area, and there were no flight delays or cancellations regardless. Unlike AAI, they'll also fix this so it doesn't happen again.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Interesting take by Shekhar Gupta.


Unfair India

Sat Sep 17 2011,

In these furiously confused times when fiction sounds so much sexier than fact and when scorn and anger seem to be the bottom line of every argument, it is useful to recall Infosys founder N.R. Narayana Murthy’s favourite line: In God we trust, all others must bring data. So let us start examining the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) of India’s latest bestseller, its report on the ministry of civil aviation (MoCA), by what else but reading the report itself. The entire report, not just its classy jacket that was waved at you on TV screens over a fortnight ago. True to the spirit of Narayana Murthy’s advice, let us start with a key para that features in the summary as well as key conclusion:


“MoCA and Government must recognise that AI is the National Carrier (capital letters auditor’s). In very many ways, it is a symbol of the State. Even if Minister and officials in MoCA prefer not to be Minister/ officials of AI alone, the fact remains that it has to be given more than (emphasis mine) a level playing field now which it has not been given. All decision to allot routes, alter timings, provide first of refusal rights on domestic and international routes must be made taking into account the interests of AI. This should be done in a transparent and demonstrable manner, placing it in public domain.” Further, the CAG adds firm, sage advice, “A total hands-off approach with regard to the management of the airline is required.”


Now there is much in these conclusions this newspaper, as most of the media, would agree with. A hands-off government for one. And there is more. For example, the assertion that Air India is a symbol of the “State”. A more incontestable truth has not been spoken. Because it is in so many essential ways just like the Indian state. Slow, unwieldy, chronically delayed and unreliable, rude, arrogant, good for nothing and due for a total overhaul and reinvention. But note that among all the negatives we have listed, the word “corrupt” is not there. This is not to say that our state is not corrupt. It is amongst the most rottenly corrupt in the world. It is just that there is nothing in this CAG report of 122 pages that calls anybody corrupt, discovers any money loss, or even hints at any. It does talk about inefficiency, callousness, disastrous management, delays and how an airline that makes a near loss on every single route it flies rewards its own (employees, not customers, silly!) with generous “performance-linked” incentives, converting itself into a taxpayer-funded gravy train, the like of which is unlikely to be matched even if our country were to lapse into old-style public-sector socialism.


Again, see the remedy the auditors suggest. First of all, they remind the government that Air India is our National Carrier (as if it was the Indian Air Force). Then they ask for a “more than” level playing field, and tell the government exactly how to do it: just mess with all routes, schedules, even timings, in such a way as to benefit Air India and screw the rest, particularly the fare-paying passenger. A “more than level playing field”? Are you listening to a clinical auditor, or an Air India union leader who wakes up between two strikes to pen this silly piece of anti-reform, anti-consumer, statist, self-serving rubbish?


You may accuse me of selectively picking one paragraph of an unthinking bureaucratic homily, and damning 122 pages of blood, sweat and tears. And you may indeed be right. Because there is much, much else in the report that is revealing, startling and factual. Since we said we will stick to data, here are some examples.


1. The more Air India flies, the more money it loses, even on routes where it has a state-mandated monopoly. For example, the India-US non-stop routes, the fanciest addition to its schedule. The loss on just this route increased from Rs 552 crore in 2005-06 to Rs 1,522 crore in 2009-10, as frequencies increased. This route has until now been denied to Jet and Kingfisher, thereby creating a monopoly of six years already.


2. Plane-load factor (PLF) of Air India/ Indian Airlines in this period remained stagnant at 68.8 per cent, while all private carriers registered an increase. And perhaps by “oversight”, the CAG has forgotten to even take notice of the fastest growing domestic carrier, Indigo.


3. Even market share in cargo operators saw a decline from 36.8 to 26.5 per cent, even as private carriers increased theirs. This, when the “national carrier” had already given itself a “more than” level playing field by converting two old, fully depreciated Boeing 737s into freighters. You want to see a scandalous fact, turn to page xvi of the executive summary.


Rs 168.3 crore was spent in this conversion. And what did the two planes achieve? A loss of 270.62 crore. Who is to blame for this? The accountant wouldn’t say.


4. As the state carrier lost its market share across the board, see how premium passengers dumped it. Even by 2004-05, it had lost most of its business-first traffic and filled only 14.4 per cent of first-class seats, each of which, the auditor sagely tells us, can make up for several empty seats in Tharoor’s cattle class. That number, now, has reached 12 per cent. For business, the number has declined from 31 to 27.7 per cent, and from 74.6 to 67.7 even in economy. You want to know why, read on from the CAG.


5. The on-time performance of the state carrier is lower than any other airline’s except Kalanidhi Maran’s Spicejet. Its 74.6 per cent for domestic and just under 60 per cent for international competes with private airlines that range between 85 and 91.


6. No wonder a passenger survey quoted by the CAG tells you the state carrier is “apathetic, grudging, dirty, unpleasant, unresponsive” and so on compared to Kingfisher, Jet, Singapore, Lufthansa and BA which are “friendly, obliging, well-dressed, classy, polished, hospitable” and so on. And who does the auditor blame all this on?


7. Since the blame is put on “competition” and non-availability of a “more than level playing field”, see what happens when Air India is given state-mandated monopoly, for example, the route to Riyadh which was barred to Indian private carriers. CAG tells you the airline had 372 serious delays/ misconnections/rescheduling on this route in 2006-09, and PLF fell from 81.4 to 63.6. And what happened when it increased its flights to 1,621 in 2009-10? There were similar delays, misconnections, etc on 232 occasions!


So, who do you blame for all this? If you just read these examples, and indeed, most of the rest of the report, you’d say the consumer. It is the paying customer who, given the choice now, has voted with her feet. And what does the auditor say?


The auditor consumes page upon page looking for faults in the buying of planes for Air India, but all he comes up with is that the process was completed too fast, as in four months. Indian Airlines, meanwhile, suffered, the CAG says, because the government took too long to buy it planes. Then it rues the loss of Rs 200 crore because the government took 117 days granting sovereign guarantees the airline needed for loans to buy its planes. If this had come in a fortnight, would it have been “too fast”? What kind of delays does the auditor consider “normal” in government processes to avoid suspicion? Heads or tails, the auditor always wins.


You have to say the auditor has done a decent job of ferreting out the facts on what ails the state carrier. Except, he has gone on to state his preconceived conclusions even if facts point to the contrary. He blames reforms for everything. Oh, reform is fine, he says, but it was “untimely”. So what should have been done? Delay it all, not even until the state carrier acquired its new planes and modern new airport hubs were built in Mumbai and Delhi, but not until the carrier had got a headstart of “two to three years” to settle its operations. That means all reform and opening up should have been delayed by a decade. And all of it to save a PSU that is “rude, apathetic, callous” and so on.


Read also their prescription now. Effectively, stop all reform and opening up. Not only that, “roll-backs” where foreign carriers have been given “too liberal” rights to fly out of India. So burn up your Emirates, Gulf Air and Singapore frequent-flier miles. Because Stalinists are coming. This CAG report is not about corruption. It tells you what happens when the sarkari empire strikes back to protect its own at the cost of you and me, the paying passenger and tax-payer.


[email protected]
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Suraj wrote:Rather misleading. It seems to have only caused some water entry in the lowest arrival area, and there were no flight delays or cancellations regardless. Unlike AAI, they'll also fix this so it doesn't happen again.
I was there on both days. Lifts in Baggage claim area was flooded and stopped working. AI people were seen bringing some baggaage on trollies. State/reserved entry road and underpass was flooded so entry and exit was through normal route (much better though) which is somewhat longer. Traffic was hit. There was no delays and little bit of inconvenience at Baggage claim area. I am sure they would fix it.
manish
BRFite
Posts: 849
Joined: 29 Jan 2009 16:13

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by manish »

Air India​ Express crash averted in Mangalore (in June 2011)
New Delhi: More people could have lost their lives in June, in a replay of the events that led to India’s worst air crash in a decade in Mangalore last year that killed 158 people.

On 25 June, an Air India Express flight (IX-208) from Mumbai landed deep into the table-top runway located on a mountain in Mangalore.

The captain decided to take off and land again after circling the airport, but the co-pilot overruled him in the nick of time and applied the brakes, bringing the aircraft to a stop at the edge of the runway. A 300-ft gorge stared below.


“It was actually a miracle that they survived,” said Mohan Ranganathan, an air safety expert and a member of the government-appointed Civil Aviation Safety Advisory Council. “If the runway was even slightly wet there was no way they could have stopped before the runway ended. But if they had tried to take off they would have certainly ended up like the last Mangalore crash.

The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) is investigating the incident, said two government officials familiar with the matter, declining to be identified.

Air India Express, the low-fare arm of Air India Ltd, continues to run without a qualified chief of flight safety even a year and four months after the ill-fated crash in Mangalore.
Looks like the continued lackadaisical attitude of AIE (towards safety and operational practices) and AAI (IXE runway extension work promised after the last year's crash is still gathering dust on some babu's table) is going to result in yet another disaster very soon at this rate...
krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by krishnan »

They wont do anything unless some minister dies in an aircrash
Klaus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2168
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 12:28
Location: Cicero Avenue

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Klaus »

AirFRance-KLM splits $12 billion order, announces plans to buy 25 Boeing 787 Dreamliners and 25 Airbus A350's
The firm part of the order for 50 aircraft is worth $6.7 billion to Airbus and $5.5 billion to Boeing, according to list prices.

The plane order guarantees business for Britain's Rolls-Royce (RR.L) to provide power for the A350-900, for which it makes the only engines currently on offer.

But industry sources say rival General Electric (GE.N) is front-runner to power the Boeing 787s, for which it competes with Rolls-Royce. Air France traditionally buys long-range engines from the U.S. company
Sikorsky to cut 3% of its global workforce.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25361
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Integrated airspace management from Chennai from today
From tomorrow the air space stretching from the Bay of Bengal to Thiruvananthapuram will become a little safer, there will be less chatter between pilots and the air traffic controllers (ATCs), and airlines will cut their fuel bills.

Why? Because the air space between 26,000 feet and 46,000 feet in the Chennai Flight Information Region (FIR) will be handled by Chennai control, instead of four different controls as is being done now. At present, individual controls in various cities, including Bangalore, Mangalore, Vizag, and guide aircraft through their flight.

The integration of various ATC radars into one in Chennai will also mean that the cockpit crew flying in the higher zones will have to communicate with only one person rather than various people as happens when they are transferred from one ATC to another during a flight.
Real benefit

“Aircraft flying from the Far East and going to the West will benefit from the introduction of the system. For domestic airlines, the real benefit will be on the Delhi-Mumbai routes,” a senior pilot with Air India said.

A senior pilot with a private airline points out that the real benefit of the system will start coming in when there is an integrated air space management system throughout the Indian airspace. AAI is already working on this and expects it to happen by next year.

At the moment, there are 11 Aircraft Control Centres (ACCs). AAI plans to integrate these into four ACCs initially, and eventually, into two ACCs. The Mumbai FIR will be next to get integrated followed by Delhi and Kolkata, sources said.

Reducing the multiple controls will mean that pilots will be able to maintain a steady height right through the flight which, in turn, will lead to lower fuel burn. This will also result in lower carbon emission by the aircraft.
Vasu
BRFite
Posts: 869
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vasu »

There was a huge buzz till some time ago of a major shortage of ATC personnel in India (among other aviation related professionals). I hope AAI has been able to fill the vacuum because haven't heard anything on that front now.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

10 Indians among 19 killed in Nepal plane crash
According to officials at Tribhuwan International Airport, the small Beechcraft 1900D plane belonging to Buddha Air was on an hour-long mountain flight and returning to Kathmandu when the accident took place.

“The airport lost contact with the plane at 7.31 am and the crash took place soon after. All 19 people on board including three crew members have died,” said an employee of the rescue coordination centre.

Besides the 10 Indians, the deceased include three foreigners, three Nepalis and two pilots and an air-hostess. Officials say while 18 persons died on the spot one injured succumbed on way to hospital. Emergency contact nos (Nepal) -0097714423702/0097714410900 (4109)

The Indians on board have been identified as Pankaj Mehta, Chaya Mehta, HD Nagaraja, S Nagaraja, I Nagaraja, L Nagaraja, D Tolosubrisum, DP Tolosubrisum, Nagaraja Tolosubrisum and P Tolosubrisum.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

And Close save for many passengers at Chennai Airport
Vasu wrote:There was a huge buzz till some time ago of a major shortage of ATC personnel in India (among other aviation related professionals). I hope AAI has been able to fill the vacuum because haven't heard anything on that front now.
CHENNAI: Three aircraft came too close for comfort at Chennai airport on Saturday morning, forcing a Jet Airways flight to abort take-off at the last minute.

The pilot of the Jet Airways flight, which was moving to take-off on runway 25 at 8.40am with 120 passengers, saw an Indigo aircraft had not vacated the farther end of the runway, and stopped. Meanwhile, an Air India flight from Delhi was on its way to land. Seeing that the Jet flight was still on the runway, the Air India plane which was descending, did a 'go around', pulling up again. With the Air India plane hovering in the vicinity, the air traffic control asked the Jet pilot to reject take-off. The Air India flight landed 22 minutes later, at 9.02am.

"A miscalculation on the part of the ATC in measuring the distance between the flights and the time caused the problem," an aviation official said. An ATC source said such instances happen, but often go unreported. "There was a possibility of a collision if the Jet aircraft was allowed to take off as the Air India flight, carrying 160 passengers, was above the airport. It could also have proved tough for the Jet flight to maintain a lower height immediately after take-off," said a pilot who was present at the airport.

A minimum distance of three miles (5 km) is to be maintained between two aircraft in motion near Indian airports and this is often kept at 5 to 10 miles in Chennai. "The Air India pilot found it less than three miles from the Jet plane which was on the runway. Immediately he alerted ATC of insufficient time gap and went around," said an ATC official. When ATC received the alert from Air India's cockpit, the Jet was gearing for take off. "We alerted them to reject take-off and the brakes went on," said the official. The Jet flight was taken back to the inspection bay due to 'hot brakes', a condition when the plane has to abruptly stop.

D Devaraj, regional executive director of Airports Authority of India said the incident was due to a delay in vacating the runway by an Indigo flight that landed at 8.30am. "The delay on the part of the Indigo flight in entering the taxiway in turn delayed the take-off of the Jet aircraft that finally ended in aborting the landing of Air India. For safety measures, we rejected the take off of the Jet aircraft at the last minute," he said.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Bomb threat grounds SpiceJet flight in Kathmandu
Kathmandu, September 25: A SpiceJet plane flying from Kathmandu to Delhi was grounded at the Tribhuvan International Airport here on Sunday after a bomb threat.

Reports said the SpiceJet flight – SG 42 – was evacuated shortly before it was scheduled to take-off at 10:40 am.

The pilot of the plane, carrying 170 passengers, alerted the air traffic control after a passenger alerted him about the presence of a bomb in the plane.

Nepalese security officials have surrounded the plane and are carrying out search operations
Added Later: Plane released after Nepal Army clears SG-42. The threat was supposedly a rumour.
negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13112
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by negi »

Bouncing plane brings back Mangalore horror
DGCA chief Bharat Bhushan has summoned AI top brass on Monday to issue a stern wake up call on certain safety issues long ignored by the national carrier, failing which serious action could be taken against the Maharaja. The miraculous escape happened on June 25, 2011, when AI Express' Boeing 737-800 (VT-AXU) touched down after possibly crossing a substantial part of the table-top runway. The plane's "exceedance numerical report" based on its flight data recorder shows that its nose and both left and right wheels were in air at 13.47.41 hours and then its rear wheels touched down a second later. The dangerous bouncing action began just then. At 13.47.43, the nose and rear wheels were on ground. But the thud with which it landed saw the aircraft's front wheel going up again the next second. And then over the next three seconds, it saw the rear right go up; then all three on ground and then rear going up again! Finally, the rear and front wheels came on ground at 13.47.48.

But the trouble for the aircraft did not end there. The commander (Captain S S Hothi) inadvertently pressed the take off go around (TOGA) button which meant that auto brakes got disconnected and the reverse thrusters (that reverse wind flow in engine to slow down plane) did not deploy. As a result, the aircraft was hurtling at a high speed on the table-top runway with the aircraft in take-off mode. When the first officer saw that the commander is struggling to operate reversers, he applied manual brakes as deceleration was inadequate," said sources.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

negi wrote:Bouncing plane brings back Mangalore horror
DGCA chief Bharat Bhushan has summoned AI top brass on Monday to issue a stern wake up call on certain safety issues long ignored by the national carrier, failing which serious action could be taken against the Maharaja. The miraculous escape happened on June 25, 2011, when AI Express' Boeing 737-800 (VT-AXU) touched down after possibly crossing a substantial part of the table-top runway. The plane's "exceedance numerical report" based on its flight data recorder shows that its nose and both left and right wheels were in air at 13.47.41 hours and then its rear wheels touched down a second later. The dangerous bouncing action began just then. At 13.47.43, the nose and rear wheels were on ground. But the thud with which it landed saw the aircraft's front wheel going up again the next second. And then over the next three seconds, it saw the rear right go up; then all three on ground and then rear going up again! Finally, the rear and front wheels came on ground at 13.47.48.

But the trouble for the aircraft did not end there. The commander (Captain S S Hothi) inadvertently pressed the take off go around (TOGA) button which meant that auto brakes got disconnected and the reverse thrusters (that reverse wind flow in engine to slow down plane) did not deploy. As a result, the aircraft was hurtling at a high speed on the table-top runway with the aircraft in take-off mode. When the first officer saw that the commander is struggling to operate reversers, he applied manual brakes as deceleration was inadequate," said sources.
Ouch, ouch and ouch!!

Must have been one hairy ride for the passengers!! :)

Lucky that this co pilot was a bit more assertive than the last unfortunate AI Express guy.
neerajb
BRFite
Posts: 855
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 14:18
Location: Delhi, India.

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by neerajb »

Vijay Mallya to ground low-cost Kingfisher Red in four months

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 167266.cms

Cheers....
Vasu
BRFite
Posts: 869
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vasu »

another MRO coming up in India with collaboration between Airbus and Pipavav (they're keen to get their hands into everything!)

Pipavav Defence takes off on diversifying into aircraft maintenance
Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering Company (Pipavav) said the maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facilities and associated infrastructure will be used for civilian and military applications. This will be a one of its kind joint venture being set up in India with equity participation from EADS, France, which is the global leader in defence and aerospace. The first phase MRO facilities and associated infrastructure is likely to cost $100 million. Pipavav will hold 51% stake in the joint venture company. EADS will pick up 26% equity in the project and may further increase its stake to 49%.
Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vipul »

Was not sure if this report was in jest. Really scary.

When Indian planes flew with broken wings.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

^^
An oddity I noticed at Port Blair was the concept of an airway crossing. Like a railway crossing has barriers on both sides of the track, there was one for planes. There's a main road just next to the wall that marks the end of the runway.

When we reached that point in a bus on our way out, the barriers were put down as a plane was about to take off. It's just like waiting for a train to pass by except we saw a plane pass right above our heads!
obviously he has not seen Gibralter

Image
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Chennai airport operations pose major threat to passengers
Arun Janardhanan Sep 26, 2011, 03.17am IST

CHENNAI: Describing the near-miss on Saturday as a "serious incident", senior aviation and navigation experts said Chennai airport operations were posing a major threat to passenger safety as the Airports Authority of India (AAI) does not consult the air traffic control (ATC) or the pilots while making any changes to flight navigation. They also point out that AAI has ignored the need for rapid exit taxiways in the multi-crore airport expansion project in Chennai.

V Krishnan, senior advisor of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation, said Saturday's incident, which occurred due to the closure of the taxiway, was neither the mistake of the landed aircraft nor the ATC officials. "Rejecting the take-off of Jet Airways and decision to 'go around' by the Air India pilot were timely decisions coordinated by the ATC. Neither the ATC nor the aircraft could be blamed. Rather, they averted a major accident," said Krishnan, a member of the Civil Aviation Safety Advisory Council that was constituted after the Mangalore plane crash,


http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Che ... 481884.ece
A major air mishap was averted at Chennai airport on Saturday when a Delhi-bound private airliner which had been cleared for take-off stopped on the runway just as an Air India flight was about to land.

Airport authorities have sought explanation from Jet Airways as to why the aircraft was stopped despite it being cleared for take-off.

Airport sources said the Delhi-bound Jet Airways plane was taxiing on the runway at 0840 hrs when it stopped at the end moment. At the same time, the Chennai-bound Air India flight from Delhi was given landing permission by the Air Traffic Control (ATC).

The ATC noticed that the Jet Airways flight was still on the runway and quickly alerted the pilot of the AI flight.

The AI plane then hovered around for sometime till the other aircraft took off, sources said.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ry-council
CHENNAI: A conflict is in the air after the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) suspended an air traffic control (ATC) officer following an incident that brought three aircraft too close at Chennai airport on September 24. The Air Traffic Controllers' Guild (India) has hit out at the DGCA for not following the procedure before suspending the official.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

New-look airport by December
CHENNAI: Get dropped on the first floor of the airport complex and pass through a glass tube from the international terminal to the domestic terminal to board the aircraft through an aerobridge. Flying out of Chennai may be hassle free and an allnew experience from the end of this year as the Rs 1,212-crore expansion project is nearing completion .

Officials said 86% of the works have been completed. Works on a triangular glass tube to accommodate a walkalator is going on. The Airport Authority of India is waiting for the alignment designs of the airport metro station from the Chennai Metro Rail Limited as the walkalator will have a link with the station. The walkalator will pass below a kilometre-long flyover structure connecting the two terminals. Above this struc ture would be the car park.
Hopefully it is completed by the given deadline despite time and cost overruns.
Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3032
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Jagan »

Vipul wrote:Was not sure if this report was in jest. Really scary.

When Indian planes flew with broken wings.
I followed all the agency stories for days and the reason behind the crash remained inconclusive... For a two-time passenger of that flight and despite having no aviation investigating skills whatsoever, the reason seemed clear: The plane was simply not air worthy!
apparently he didnt read the report on the Crash either link
Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vipul »

First indigenous civil aircraft can take flight in five years.

If all files land up in on right tables at the right time, the prototype of India's first indigenous civil aircraft can take its maiden flight in the next five years. The feasibility report for the National Civil Aircraft Development Programme (NCAD) has been submitted to the government, and if the cabinet gives the approval on time, the project can go upstream on time. Space Commission chairman and head of the NCAD development committee G Madhavan Nair said that aircraft can take commercial flight in 2020 if it goes as per the plan.

Speaking to the press on the sidelines of the Nasscom Engineering Summit at Pune, the former chairman of ISRO said that the feasibilty study of the aircraft was completed recently. "We are aiming for a 70-100 seating capacity and the aircraft will fly at speeds of 700 km per hours. This is a lower speed than other aircraft, but will save substantial amount of fuel. It will also have space to carry 1000 kilos of cargo."

The development phase of the aircraft will cost Rs 4200 crore, while the production phase will cost Rs 3200 crore, he said. "We expect the development to be funded entirely by the government, while the production phases to be funded by private players. We aim to have a JV with a private partner three years down the line," Mr Nair added. India is only the BRIC country which does not have a civil aircraft plan in place at this point.

Mr Nair stated that the plan is to develop advanced aircraft which can operate on relatively short airfields and in relatively lower infrastructure on the ground, so that it can make use of the airfields lying unused now. Currently only 82 of the 400 odd airfields in the country are used. The aircraft is planned to be powered by an air turbofan engine with low fuel consumption, exhaust gas emission and noise, Mr Nair said.

While most of the development will be indigenous, the only are where India lacks competence is the engine development. "While it is good to have our own engines, the development will take about 15 years, for which we cannot wait," Mr Nair said. Many countries like Russia, Japan, and Italy etc are also developing their own aircraft, which will be a direct competition for India's aircraft in the global market. "If we had begun our program 30 years ago, we could have now competed with makers like Embraer. So we are discussing a possibility of inviting engine manufacturers to set up manufacturing plants in India."

The aircraft development committee is also scouting for talent to join the program and Mr Nair is aiming to recruit 100 people this year, to add to the current team of 80. The challenge earlier was to match up salary offered by the private sector, which is 2-5 times more than the government remuneration. "The first mandate I have got is to offer market salaries, but those will not be irrationally exuberant. The implementation will also be done on private sector model, with monitoring of productivity and output. India has lot of young talent, which we aim to rope into the program," Mr Nair said.
Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4912
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Tanaji »

Shameless Air Parasite at it again, passengers stuck in airplane for 8 hours at Gatwick waiting for take-off

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15332209
A spokeswoman for Gatwick Airport said airport staff did everything they could to help.

She said: "The airline constantly refused to take the passengers off. It's up to the airline what they choose to do.

"If they had allowed them off, the passengers would have come into the terminal. We would have helped with their welfare.

"We did everything we could while they were at Gatwick. We can't do anything with the passengers if they don't disembark."

She added: "We went over and above what we should do. We gave them water. They didn't want us to provide food because they used their own caterers who are at Heathrow."

Shameless! These parasites should weeded out and fired.
anishns
BRFite
Posts: 1382
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 09:43
Location: being victim onlee...

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by anishns »

Despicable!
As for the series of events that led to the "creeping delays," here's how the various media reports suggest that played out.

First, the overnight Heathrow-bound flight diverted to Gatwick around 7:30 a.m. local time because of dense fog that had developed at Heathrow.

Then, according to the unnamed Air India official speaking to the BBC, the airline expected the weather to clear in about 90 minutes … only to find out later that the Heathrow landing slot offered to Air India to continue the flight wouldn't come until about 1:30 p.m.

That meant the crew operating the Air India flight would exceed its maximum-allowed work time, forcing the carrier to shuttle in a new crew from Heathrow. That crew, according to India's NDTV, got lost somewhere in or around Gatwick.
(probably drunk :mrgreen: )

The flight finally reached Heathrow around 5:30 p.m. local time, at which point fliers apparently were given a letter from Air India containing "sincere apologies for any inconvenience," :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: according to a passenger quoted by AFP.
Klaus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2168
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 12:28
Location: Cicero Avenue

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Klaus »

Union leaders hope to reach deal with Qantas.
An estimated 60,000 Qantas passengers have been affected by a series of rolling strikes by engineers and ground crews.

More passengers are expected to be affected next week, with baggage handlers, ground staff and catering employees planning to walk off the job on Tuesday, October 25.
The pain stems from Qantas decision to relocate to Asia and its impact on maintenance and engineering workforce. A related report: Federal government will resolve dispute if needed.
Klaus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2168
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 12:28
Location: Cicero Avenue

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Klaus »

Proposed EU fatigue rules could put pilots over legal alcohol limit.
Using the CAA’s own scientific model for calculating fatigue the proposed EU regulations would see pilots landing their aircraft with the equivalent performance detriment of being four times over the legal alcohol limit for flying,” said Rob Hunger, BALPA’s head of flights safety and security.
SriKumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2264
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 07:22
Location: sarvatra

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by SriKumar »

^^^ One must admire the tenacity of the French in successfully locating the FDR/CVR in a challenging environment. Thanks to that, the sequence of events are now known. Having said that, it is interesting that the speculation in the initial few days after the crash as to the basic (initial) cause i.e. icing up of the pitot tubes was correct. IIRC, the 'regular' pitot tubes were replaced by heated tubes within days. I think the findings might change the way some warnings are issued in the cockpit.
neerajb
BRFite
Posts: 855
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 14:18
Location: Delhi, India.

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by neerajb »

Pitot tubes have inbuilt heaters and the NOVA video confirms that the ill fated aircraft had it. It's another thing that the pitot tube got overwhelmed by the snow buildup in the thunderstorm.

Cheers....
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9199
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by nachiket »

Regardless of what caused the sensor malfunction, the final cause of the accident remains that the pilots weren't able to recover from a stall, which is what is alarming. If the fault was with the training, this accident could happen again, even if pitot tubes completely resistant to snow are someday invented. Stalls can be caused by various events.
SriKumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2264
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 07:22
Location: sarvatra

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by SriKumar »

I dont think the 'final' cause of an accident is any less important than an 'initial' cause or an 'intermediate' cause. As you know, airline accidents involve failure on multiple fronts and it is not just one event, and all the links in the chain of events causing the accident have to be fixed. My comment about the pitot tubes was that the airlines zeroed in on that with no hard evidence in the immediate aftermath of the event. In this case, it was a multitude of events. About stalls, atleast part of what caused confusion could have been the algorithm that canceled the stall warning when certain parameters (AoA? pitch?) was 'out of range' even though the plane was stalled. The pilots were in the odd position of not hearing stall warnings some times, and at other times (nose down) the stall warning would come on (because the other parameters were normal enough to trigger the alarm per the algorithm). My suspicion is that many things will change as a result of this accident investigation beyond training pilots to recover from a stall (which is basic training, from what I hear).
Post Reply